What *exactly* is Speed and Wiccan's relation to Magneto?

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Is is just speculation or is there any proof out there?

[drwho]

None really my understanding is the soul of Wandas fake kids was sent into the two of them. Biologically they arent even wandas and visions kids. They are a hex fart.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Just two magic conjunctions? That's it?

[Nachturne]

I'm not sure it's actually really been explained yet. I mean, they're obviously supposed to somehow be Wanda's kids, but it hasn't yet been explained HOW they are.

[Zombienorthstar]

It's only Billy's (Wiccan) suspicion, it's never been proven as true. Even if it is true they aren't biologically his grandchildren right? Seeing as how the lost souls haven't been around for as long as Speed and Wiccan have because they're too old. There's lots of problems with it.

My Unofficial Soloution:

Subconciously knowing the Avengers would never allow her to keep her created children the Scarlet Witch used her powers to create fake memories and histories for her children and place them within society with obvious latent powers so that she would at one point be able to find them again this time under real world guises as Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shephard so the Avengers wouldn't suspect. However of course her plan was nixed by her insanity/House of M and so has been a little bit too busy to find them.

[drwho]

I'm pretty sure it was made clear in the Young Avengers Special what I said. Their origin is already known just they have been too busy to care to go hunt wanda down.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Their souls are his grandchildren, but their bodies are those of their birth parents. The Shepherds and the Kaplans.

[Faded]

It's only Billy's (Wiccan) suspicion, it's never been proven as true. Even if it is true they aren't biologically his grandchildren right? Seeing as how the lost souls haven't been around for as long as Speed and Wiccan have because they're too old. There's lots of problems with it.

My Unofficial Soloution:

Subconciously knowing the Avengers would never allow her to keep her created children the Scarlet Witch used her powers to create fake memories and histories for her children and place them within society with obvious latent powers so that she would at one point be able to find them again this time under real world guises as Billy Kaplan and Tommy Shephard so the Avengers wouldn't suspect. However of course her plan was nixed by her insanity/House of M and so has been a little bit too busy to find them.

I'd love that!

Seriously, Young Avengers is pretty much flawless, but I wasn't digging the explanations and latter explained origins of Wiccan and Hulkling.

[jmc247]

Their souls are his grandchildren, but their bodies are those of their birth parents. The Shepherds and the Kaplans.

What exactly is a soul in the Marvelverse? Magneto himself has changed bodies along with a number of characters.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Their souls are his grandchildren, but their bodies are those of their birth parents. The Shepherds and the Kaplans.

You've got to be kidding me?

[ibrakeforchinwe]

You've got to be kidding me?

No? Scarlet Witch's kids weren't real but they had souls and when her kids "died" their souls ended up being born into Wiccan and Speeds bodies, even tho the kids had different parents. The two boys are twins, except for their hair color, but aren't genetically related I dont believe.

[Xanrn]

Well I can see several explanations.

First we have the "Dawn" Retcon magic, basically, Tommy and Billy are not as old as they think they are. All their memories up to a certain point are fake, that certain point being sometime around when Wanda went nutso. This could mean both Billy and Tommy are genetical Wanda's children and brothers.

Or Wanda made Tommy and Billy as babies.

If you look at the Kaplan's they have no other children and since Tommy hasn't mentioned any siblings, I will assume the Sheperd's don't either.

So the fact maybe both couples would never have produced children, except for Wanda's obivious magical intervention.

There is a 3rd possibility, which is somewhat evil. Wanda simply replaced the real Billy and Tommy with the souls of her children.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

You've got to be kidding me?

Actually, as others have said, its been unexplained to this point mostly, and we don't know if they are biologically their new identities' children or not. We have no clue, we'll find out sometime I'm sure. Either way, it seems Vision knew about them, because he had them in his Failsafe program, which was supposedly people with connections to the Avengers and Avengers history. MY theory is to protect her children from the forces of evil, like Mephisto trying to reclaim them, as their magically born children had souls that belonged to Mephisto, and his trying to reclaim them is what temporarily destroyed him, and supposedly sent the boys into their new bodies. Perhaps Wanda sent them to new bodies, and sent them back in time, explaining how they're older than Cassie, Luna and Franklin, when they shouldn't be. Perhaps she removed her own memories in order to greater protect them, and by splitting them up and sending them to the past they would be even less likely to be identified. Both Mephisto and Immortus expressed an interest in destroying/controlling the twins, and Immortus claimed they would be beings of immense power and significance. What better way to protect them than to erase her own memories and split them up? And the only Avenger she wouls trust with this info, whether Wanda would be subconscious or aware of her actions, would be Vision. Make sense? I dunno... Makes sense to me, and its just kind of how I assumed it while I read it.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Billy and Tommy Hexfart-Maximov.

their new legal names.

[Mikey Brown]

No? Scarlet Witch's kids weren't real but they had souls and when her kids "died" their souls ended up being born into Wiccan and Speeds bodies, even tho the kids had different parents. The two boys are twins, except for their hair color, but aren't genetically related I dont believe.
Thay were adopted by the Kaplans & the Shepards. Yes they are supposed to be the children of Vision and the Scarlet Witch. Young Vision even says it in one of the issues.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Thay were adopted by the Kaplans & the Shepards. Yes they are supposed to be the children of Vision and the Scarlet Witch. Young Vision even says it in one of the issues.


No, that is totally untrue. The only thing Vision has said about it at all is that the Scarlet Witch DID have twins, and he never ever finished telling the boys who their father was. The Super-Skrull assumed based on Skrull intelligence that Speed and Wiccan were Tommy and Billy of the Scarlet Witch Vision union. What you are refering to has never occured in any Young Avengers comic at all. This is why most of the responses have stated that it is somewhat up in the air.

[Mikey Brown]

No, that is totally untrue. The only thing Vision has said about it at all is that the Scarlet Witch DID have twins, and he never ever finished telling the boys who their father was. The Super-Skrull assumed based on Skrull intelligence that Speed and Wiccan were Tommy and Billy of the Scarlet Witch Vision union. What you are refering to has never occured in any Young Avengers comic at all. This is why most of the responses have stated that it is somewhat up in the air.

No Vision says: the mother is the Scarlet Witch and the father is MEEEEEE!!!!! Something happens to him I don't remember. He gets attacked or something, but he says hes the father.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

No Vision says: the mother is the Scarlet Witch and the father is MEEEEEE!!!!! Something happens to him I don't remember. He gets attacked or something, but he says hes the father.


No, he doesn't ever say he is their father. The boys ask him about the twins that the Super-Skrull was talking about, because they had never heard of the Scarlet Witch having kids. he does say MEEE--- but he is cut off, there is feedback and he is hurt. He NEVER claims to be Billy and Tommy's father. He is answering questions about their twins, go reread the issue, Billy and Super-Skrull are the only ones who claim that Wiccan and Speed are the same as the Maximoff twins, Vision just doesn't say it.

[Mikey Brown]

No, he doesn't ever say he is their father. The boys ask him about the twins that the Super-Skrull was talking about, because they had never heard of the Scarlet Witch having kids. he does say MEEE--- but he is cut off, there is feedback and he is hurt. He NEVER claims to be Billy and Tommy's father. He is answering questions about their twins, go reread the issue, Billy and Super-Skrull are the only ones who claim that Wiccan and Speed are the same as the Maximoff twins, Vision just doesn't say it.
Ok. The issue is in front of me. Billy says: "We're the children of the Scarlet Witch and--whoever the father was." The Vision says: "According to the Vision's memory files, it was me--ee-ee", then Vision is hit. They are the children of Vision and the Scarlet Witch. It says it pretty clearly.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Ok. The issue is in front of me. Billy says: "We're the children of the Scarlet Witch and--whoever the father was." The Vision says: "According to the Vision's memory files, it was me--ee-ee", then Vision is hit. They are the children of Vision and the Scarlet Witch. It says it pretty clearly.

No it doesn't. I have the issue in front of me too, Billy makes the claim. Vision never says, "yes, you are indeed those children." In fact the ONLY thing he says about their status is that they ceased to exist. I quote "Thomas and William ceased to exist." Vision and Super Skrull never say once that they were adopted, at all, in ANY of the issues of the title. That was also part of your original claim.

He's answering the question of who the father is. No one else who has read the issue on this thread, or any other I've read, or anyone I've talked to about it, has read it the way you are suggesting. He doesn't make the claim ONCE that Billy and Tommy are the same kids, and it never comes up again from Vision, AND Tommy doesn't buy it at all. I too think that they are indeed the Maximoff twins, but the issue doesn't read that way to myself, or any of the other participants in multiple discussions about the issue at hand, and I just find it hard to believe we've all read it wrong, thats all.

No disrespect meant, I just simply disagree.

[HeckBoy]

Actually, as others have said, its been unexplained to this point mostly, and we don't know if they are biologically their new identities' children or not. We have no clue, we'll find out sometime I'm sure. Either way, it seems Vision knew about them, because he had them in his Failsafe program, which was supposedly people with connections to the Avengers and Avengers history. MY theory is to protect her children from the forces of evil, like Mephisto trying to reclaim them, as their magically born children had souls that belonged to Mephisto, and his trying to reclaim them is what temporarily destroyed him, and supposedly sent the boys into their new bodies. Perhaps Wanda sent them to new bodies, and sent them back in time, explaining how they're older than Cassie, Luna and Franklin, when they shouldn't be. Perhaps she removed her own memories in order to greater protect them, and by splitting them up and sending them to the past they would be even less likely to be identified. Both Mephisto and Immortus expressed an interest in destroying/controlling the twins, and Immortus claimed they would be beings of immense power and significance. What better way to protect them than to erase her own memories and split them up? And the only Avenger she wouls trust with this info, whether Wanda would be subconscious or aware of her actions, would be Vision. Make sense? I dunno... Makes sense to me, and its just kind of how I assumed it while I read it.

I'm liking your theory. But, these cross-temporal/plane of existence origins really give me headaches and it's bound to cause some kind of foul up later that'll end needing some kind of re-retconning or something just to streamline it.

Personally, I'd like to see them keep things simple (or as simple as it ever is in comics). Maybe they could have Tommy and Billy being adopted by different families after mystically being conjured up with fake memories or something. I don't know it's late so I'm not running on full cylinders here.

[HeckBoy]

sorry, double post.