The Black-Tas-Tic Four: Hudlin Talks “Black Panther”

[andy khouri]

Next week, Marvel’s latest super couple will do a favor for its first super couple, as the Black Panther and Storm fill in for Reed and Sue Richards in the FF. CBR News spoke with “Black Panther” writer Reggie Hudlin about the book.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10090

[shaunyc56]

I like it. A return to T'challa's intellectual roots, which seem to have been all but ignored. And more responsibility placed on Storm's shoulders.

[drwho]

The title of this interview seems so wrong. Hopefully Dwayne can teach hudlin how to properly write comic characters.

[EnDwiGast]

If Cage wasn't so busy in New Avengers, it would be great to see Black Panther & Storm,when they inevitably leave the team, form a new team with Cage and Monica Rambeau.

[drwho]

My only fear is i'll be turning through one of these books to see the Thing dressed in one of those African moomoos with those odd hats, and Johnny being ghettoized like something from the White Rapper tv show.

[Beast]

The Black-Tas-Tic Four? Hmmm.... I don't know, there's just something incredibly offensive about that.

[ExtraEpidermis]

The Black-Tas-Tic Four? Hmmm.... I don't know, there's just something incredibly offensive about that.

Glad I'm not the only one who got that vibe. . . .

My only fear is i'll be turning through one of these books to see the Thing dressed in one of those African moomoos with those odd hats, and Johnny being ghettoized like something from the White Rapper tv show.

WOW!!! Please tell me you aren't being serious.

[Jonah Weiland]

The title of this interview seems so wrong. Hopefully Dwayne can teach hudlin how to properly write comic characters.Hi Dr. Who,

We've received some feedback on the title thus far and I think some people have reacted to the title without reading the article. The title is taken from a quote by Reginald Hudlin within the article itself:

As Marvel editorial knew Reed and Sue would be taking a break from the FF, they asked Hudlin what he thought about T'Challa and his new bride filling in for them. “I loved it the minute I heard it,” Hudlin told CBR News. “Someone even made up a mock cover done a la the Beatles' 'Let It Be' album with individual shots of THE BLACK-TAS-TIC FOUR (Panther, Storm, Torch and The Thing).”

Obviously no offense is meant by anyone here and certainly not from Reginald himself -- it's certainly a catchy turn of words and is bringing additional attention to the article, which ultimately is a good thing for fans of the title.

What I've always liked about interviews with Reginald is how open and honest he is with his responses and, yeah, sometimes he pisses people off, but ultimately his passion comes through and he gets people talking about "Black Panther," which he's done once again today.

[andy khouri]

My only fear is i'll be turning through one of these books to see the Thing dressed in one of those African moomoos with those odd hats, and Johnny being ghettoized like something from the White Rapper tv show.

My only fear is more people like you.

[drwho]

The title isnt really offensive, but considering it is coming from a Hudlin interview it seems like more of what he seems to be about during most of the stories he has written. He focuses on race a lot and an interview shows up with race as part of the title. That is all I meant by my comment.

[Beast]

Maybe they should go with "Multi-Culture Pals" at least it's actually fitting.

We have an African, an African-American, a Wasp, and a Jew. :p

Sounds like we're at least halfway from being the Black-Tas-Tic Four by a longshot.

[agrich]

I don't think people should totally rule out the possibility that it's not a specific reference to race at all. It's not as if Luke Cage and Storm just joined the team. I mean, the character's actual superhero NAME is Black Panther, and he is the character Hudlin is closely associated with.

[Magneto Rocks]

Maybe they should go with "Multi-Culture Pals" at least it's actually fitting.

We have an African, an African-American, a Wasp, and a Jew. :p



OMG, no Catholic!? I CRY FOUL PLAY!

Seriously, Nightcrawler should join just for the symmetry of the thing.

....Note that there are a great shortage of Muslim superheroes, hmmm?

[matt levin]

"If Cage wasn't so busy in New Avengers, it would be great to see Black Panther & Storm,when they inevitably leave the team, form a new team with Cage and Monica Rambeau."

Y'mean no one else thinks this could be (pardon) fantastic?!
Oh I do. My greatest fear is that Marvel would drop it before it could fly. No mixes, pure Afro-American. Besides....

if Monica Rambeau were part of The Four we'd have near obligatory cameos by Next Wave.

Well, thanks, Endwigast, I'd really like to see this team a good two-year run. Takes a good writer and a smart artist.

Matt

[Beast]

An all black team? Arn't people always complaining about equality in comics and now they actually want to segregate four black characters off into their own team book? Will there be a token white character also?

[Dazzler]

Boy...Hudlin can't go one lousy interview without mentioning the BET thing. Sheesh. we get it already!
About the title...the only thing offensive about it is how stupid it is.

--Dazz

[Deadpooligan]

Why does Black Panther have to be the book where all the black superheroes are supporting cast? It's just stupid.

I like Luke Cage Bendisized. Bendis has brought a lot more to the character than just "blaxploitated 70's-80's thug". He's a streetwise family man with strong values, and is a great team player.

I don't want to see Hudlin stick him here so he can join the Blackvengers, Blacktastic Four, or whatever. (Despite the character himself expressing interest in the former).

Also, I second the African muumuu garbed Thing idea. That'd be hi-larious.

Plus, I don't think the powersets of the Blacktastic Four would be effective. Super-intellect and Cap level athletics, weather control, super strength and unbreakable skin, and energy discharge? C'mon, that's just lame.

Storm belongs on the X-Men. That goes without question; I don't really want to get started on how "forced" this wedding was. (They rewrote continuity to do so? Ridiculous.)

But hey! McDuffie's on this now, right? He's got a great handle on black characters. (Static and Icon come to mind).

[EnDwiGast]

My greatest fear is that Marvel would drop it before it could fly. No mixes, pure Afro-American. Besides....

if Monica Rambeau were part of The Four we'd have near obligatory cameos by Next Wave.

Well, thanks, Endwigast, I'd really like to see this team a good two-year run. Takes a good writer and a smart artist.

Matt

I think a team like this with McDuffie at the helm could be interesting. Maybe Deathlok could be a substitute for Cage.

The problem with any ethnic based team, is why would they form together. So to me when the original Four inevitably comes back, then maybe Black Panther & Storm like the idea of having a team and pick two new members for their own "Fantastic Four" group. Monica Rambeau certainly has the power, and is back in limbo again. (I don't see anything more than occasional nextwave minis in the future - at best) Deathlok might actually be a better fit for the FF formula than Cage - even though Cage has stronger ties to the Panther and FF at the moment. Deathlok's not doing much right now - McDuffie had a great take on him in beyond, and its likely he will pop up along with Gravity in FF in the near future anyway.

A team like this has been at the back of people's minds for a while. Why not give it a try if the circumstances are right and a post-FF Black Panther & Storm might present the perfect opportunity.

[kitamu re]

I think a team like this with McDuffie at the helm could be interesting. Maybe Deathlok could be a substitute for Cage.

The problem with any ethnic based team, is why would they form together. So to me when the original Four inevitably comes back, then maybe Black Panther & Storm like the idea of having a team and pick two new members for their own "Fantastic Four" group. Monica Rambeau certainly has the power, and is back in limbo again. (I don't see anything more than occasional nextwave minis in the future - at best) Deathlok might actually be a better fit for the FF formula than Cage - even though Cage has stronger ties to the Panther and FF at the moment. Deathlok's not doing much right now - McDuffie had a great take on him in beyond, and its likely he will pop up along with Gravity in FF in the near future anyway.

A team like this has been at the back of people's minds for a while. Why not give it a try if the circumstances are right and a post-FF Black Panther & Storm might present the perfect opportunity.

great post..I am all for it..sounds like a cool idea. The only thing is what you would call them. maybe a Defenders relaunch is in mind;)

[bluezulu]

Man some of yall have issues.:rolleyes: . That was the most harmless interview and still some can bring some controversy out of it. This is great for marvel and comics as a whole. For what ever naysayers say Reggie Hudlin lacks in writing ability no one can deny his flare for big events, crossovers, team ups and promotion. I swear he would make a great editor. Big idea after big idea.

[EnDwiGast]

great post..I am all for it..sounds like a cool idea. The only thing is what you would call them. maybe a Defenders relaunch is in mind;)

I guess Black-Tas-Tic Four is a no go.

[LordAllMighty]

Cool, looks like I'm going to enjoy this.:D

Now if they would only do something interesting with Storm's powers

[Beast]

Cool, looks like I'm going to enjoy this.:D

Now if they would only do something interesting with Storm's powers
Like what? As if she's not capable of doing enough now?

[Yaw]

An all black team? Arn't people always complaining about equality in comics and now they actually want to segregate four black characters off into their own team book? Will there be a token white character also?

why is putting four black characters in a team book considered segregation? No blacks are on New Excalibur, none on Mighty Avengers, none on Astonishing X-Men team, but noone ever says anything about segregation...:confused: And they all have more than four people.

[MAK15]

Like what? As if she's not capable of doing enough now?

lightning bolts, typhoons, hurricanes, monsoons, snow, thunder, rain...huh, almost makes the invisible woman look like a slouch in the abilites department.

[Beast]

lightning bolts, typhoons, hurricanes, monsoons, snow, thunder, rain...huh, almost makes the invisible woman look like a slouch in the abilites department.
Don't forget she can manipulate cosmic storms, solar winds, etc. as well. Not to mention ocean currents. Plus there's flight, her ability to see the energy spectrum, and also has some level of psychic resistance due to her lightning aura. So yeah, she certainly doesn't need to be any more powerful.

[Beast]

why is putting four black characters in a team book considered segregation? No blacks are on New Excalibur, none on Mighty Avengers, none on Astonishing X-Men team, but noone ever says anything about segregation...:confused: And they all have more than four people.
Your argument would hold water, if they were all American Wasps. :p

[Sparda]

I think the idea of Black panther and Storm being on the FF team would be a great idea. BP is a very intellect type of guy who just happens to do great in athletics on par with caps. People saying this is bad are just annoying old fashion duds. Especially to those who whine about Storm should belong with the X-Men. Jeez maybe I should limit all mutant's to X-teams only and never give Beast a shot at being an Avenger again hmmmmm? Hate that mentality, and storm should have a nice shining spot in the Marvel universe as Beast did (and great might I add) as well as even wolverine who's even now on an Avenger's team.

I like the change, though it's not gonna be permanent, I do hope it has really strong sales for the nice change so this team could last longer. I myself am not much of a FF type of guy but I sure as hell buying BP Marvel zombies tie-ins.

[Tazirai]

Havent purchased a FF issue in abotu 10 years, gonna start now for sure. Should be a great read.

[kitamu re]

I guess Black-Tas-Tic Four is a no go.

definitely a no-go now a new defenders book with this lineup would be on my pull list.

Black panther
Storm
Photon (monica)
Namor
Cage

they would represent the front line against the pro-reg expansion into the larger 616

[Yaw]

Your argument would hold water, if they were all American Wasps. :p

so its nationality/ethnicity issue? So for the record, a team of Brother Voodoo (Haitian), Silhouette (American/Cambodian born in Cambodia), Black Panther (Wakandan), Cecelia Reyes (Puerto Rican) and Falcon (American) is not considered segregated despite the fact that they are all racially "black?" Ok good to know.;)

Edit: Oh yeah and the four original characters that you responded to were Storm, Black Panther, Monica Rambeau and Luke Cage. That lineup is about as diverse as the Fantastic Four. That is definitely not a monolithic representation of African Americans.

[kitamu re]

Havent purchased a FF issue in abotu 10 years, gonna start now for sure. Should be a great read.

so true, I will definitely be adding ff to my list:D

[coy_dog0]

For the most part, the only non-WASP heroes in comics are ones that are created to specifically international; ie: The 'New' X-men from the 1970s, or exploitation characters like Black Lightning, Black Goliath, or even Black Panther (notice a trend.)

More on this topic at the new web show that reviews comic books:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JxPu0_7bwU

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I have to catch up with Storm and the new FF is the place to do it.

[Deadpooligan]

definitely a no-go now a new defenders book with this lineup would be on my pull list.

Black panther
Storm
Photon (monica)
Namor
Cage

they would represent the front line against the pro-reg expansion into the larger 616

You can't have a team of Defenders that doesn't involve Doctor Strange hand picking people to take on huge magic threats.

As for standing against registration, that's what the New Avengers are still around for.

The Black Defenders may work if you threw in Brother Voodoo as their magical leader. (I think Doctor Druid subbed in for Strange a few times).

But Namor? C'mon, if you're going to have an all black Defenders, you don't need him to serve as a token.

[matt levin]

Why would they get together?

Because they like each other, respect each other, and, as two Africans (to lump peoples of that giant continent all together as if they're all the same--they're NOT!), a southern (New Orleans?) woman, and a northern (NYC?) man, they'd find each other interesting.

And so would I. Not to mention the likely issues of leadership which could arise: T'Challa's a King, and leader of (Avengers?) Marvel groups previously, Monica's led the Avengers (as she repeated informed Next Wave) and Next Wave (as she repeatedly needed to inform Next Wave), and Storm's led the X-men. Luke, well, this time, Luke could sit back and enjoy the fireworks.

I like this group because, as I wrote above, each member is an interesting person way beyond their individual powers.

Furthermore, as an internationally mixed membership, they're likely as 'diverse' a group as any Marvel super-team, and, if written the way I'd like them to be, not much concerned with a 'black identity' except as how the media and outsiders might dub them.

and I still think they should call themselves "The Four". If Deathlok joined, why, it'd be an "event" as The Four Becomes The Five!!!

Matt

[kitamu re]

You can't have a team of Defenders that doesn't involve Doctor Strange hand picking people to take on huge magic threats.

As for standing against registration, that's what the New Avengers are still around for.

The Black Defenders may work if you threw in Brother Voodoo as their magical leader. (I think Doctor Druid subbed in for Strange a few times).

But Namor? C'mon, if you're going to have an all black Defenders, you don't need him to serve as a token.

first off I think you misunderstand the premise. Namor was an original defender therefore, it makes sense to have him as a part of the team, add to that namor and t'challas alliance against pro-reg heroes and you have the perfect book. and using terms like black defenders is ridiculous snce none of the characters define them selfs as such.

[Yaw]

first off I think you misunderstand the premise. Namor was an original defender therefore, it makes sense to have him as a part of the team, add to that namor and t'challas alliance against pro-reg heroes and you have the perfect book. and using terms like black defenders is ridiculous snce none of the characters define them selfs as such.

I think calling that team the "Defenders" is a misnomer because the Defenders were started as team to fight against more powerful cosmic and magical threats. Fighting against registration is too simplistic and unimportant for those characters in my opinion. I'm not saying they can't team up (I would love to see it) but against the U.S. registration laws and under the name Defenders ? Naw T'Challa is better/more important than that. T'Challa needs to go to war with a fictional nation IMO. What's up with Madripoor, Niganda, Canaan, Genosha etc. these days?

[Deadpooligan]

first off I think you misunderstand the premise. Namor was an original defender therefore, it makes sense to have him as a part of the team, add to that namor and t'challas alliance against pro-reg heroes and you have the perfect book. and using terms like black defenders is ridiculous snce none of the characters define them selfs as such.

How can you have a team of DEFENDERS with absolutely no magic practitioner? You're throwing the team's premise and history of the name out the window.

I call them the "Black Defenders" because they are an organization of Defenders comprised solely of Black people, and such is their aim, to have an all-Black team. Luke Cage has expressed the idea of "Black Avengers" several times.

Namor's a hotheaded jerk who needs to be kept in check by someone more powerful than he is, and a combination of all the characters you mentioned might not be able to do it. You're also throwing in an almost racist factor, as Namor believes that Homo-Atlanteans are superior to humans, mutants, and the like. The fact they're all Black enhances this, and only leaves more opportunity for Luke Cage to rant about slavery.

As for keeping Namor in check? Strange could do it, the Hulk could do it, and Silver Surfer could do it, each alone. (Does that make Namor the weakest of the iconic Defenders? I don't know.)

Anti-Reg heroes have been organized as the New Avengers, who, next month, are going to take on the spearheads of Registration, the Mighty Avengers. If that's not the real wake of rebellion, I don't know what is.

T'Challa is so elitist and emotionally distant from the United States he'd no longer care about registration. He arguably only took a role in Civil War at the continued prompting of Storm and (after the wedding) uninvited visits by Cap and Iron Man. Also the fact that Sentinels invaded Wakanda to monitor Storm, I'd be surprised if he could truly give two shits about America anymore.

[shaunyc56]

why is putting four black characters in a team book considered segregation? No blacks are on New Excalibur, none on Mighty Avengers, none on Astonishing X-Men team, but noone ever says anything about segregation...:confused: And they all have more than four people.

There's the rub though, isn't it. When Hudlin started his BP run and started using under utilized black characters merely to show that a) they are cool, and b) they exist, some people responded to it at as a Blacks only club, meanwhile, Astonishing is a Whites only club to the fullest, even the people who aren't white on Excalibur or Astonishing, would most certainly be if they needed to use an image inducer.

[shaunyc56]

Namor's a hotheaded jerk who needs to be kept in check by someone more powerful than he is, and a combination of all the characters you mentioned might not be able to do it. You're also throwing in an almost racist factor, as Namor believes that Homo-Atlanteans are superior to humans, mutants, and the like. The fact they're all Black enhances this, and only leaves more opportunity for Luke Cage to rant about slavery.

As for keeping Namor in check? Strange could do it, the Hulk could do it, and Silver Surfer could do it, each alone. (Does that make Namor the weakest of the iconic Defenders? I don't know.)

Anti-Reg heroes have been organized as the New Avengers, who, next month, are going to take on the spearheads of Registration, the Mighty Avengers. If that's not the real wake of rebellion, I don't know what is.

T'Challa is so elitist and emotionally distant from the United States he'd no longer care about registration. He arguably only took a role in Civil War at the continued prompting of Storm and (after the wedding) uninvited visits by Cap and Iron Man. Also the fact that Sentinels invaded Wakanda to monitor Storm, I'd be surprised if he could truly give two shits about America anymore.


Ok, LC compared discrimination to discrimination, if you can't see how someone could do that maybe you need to look inward.


T'challa is a foreign head of State who's country has almost been invaded twice in a year as a direct result of American action

His wife was disrespected 2wice on their DIPLOMATIC visit to the US, (1.making a foreign queen register 2. having a mutant watched by a sentinel "just in case" is tantamount to burning a cross on someones lawn or following them around your store)

An American Carrier group is threatining to destroy his country, right now.

American Marines are currently poised to cross the border into his country.

America now has a vast Superhero army poised to be the tip of their spear into any and all internaional confilict, and these "Super heroes" will have no choice in the matter (kinda sounds like slavery)

T'challa is far from indifferent to the US, but has every reason to be wary of it, and feel insulted by it. T'challa is no more "elitist" than any other king who has been an Avenger, and a lot less Arrogant than Tony Stark himself. What exactly is it about Panther that makes people think that how he acts is so much different, I wonder.

[Morw]

If you should introduce a all black superhero group then do it natural and test the water.

Make a story where somebody meet a superhero from africa thats not Black phanter. But use real africa contries and dont make it 4 people, so they wont be compeared to the fantasic four at once. Just let people know they are out there and there is a natural reason for a all black group. Make them interresting so people want more of them and slowly give them more limelight untill you can give them a own series.

Oh and get hold of an africa -african to write the stories, sorry but african american dodnt seem to know to much about africa, they tend to americanis africa to much. Atleast thats what my african-afrcian freinds tell me.

[Morw]

Ok, LC compared discrimination to discrimination, if you can't see how someone could do that maybe you need to look inward.


T'challa is a foreign head of State who's country has almost been invaded twice in a year as a direct result of American action

His wife was disrespected 2wice on their DIPLOMATIC visit to the US, (1.making a foreign queen register 2. having a mutant watched by a sentinel "just in case" is tantamount to burning a cross on someones lawn or following them around your store)

An American Carrier group is threatining to destroy his country, right now.

American Marines are currently poised to cross the border into his country.

America now has a vast Superhero army poised to be the tip of their spear into any and all internaional confilict, and these "Super heroes" will have no choice in the matter (kinda sounds like slavery)

T'challa is far from indifferent to the US, but has every reason to be wary of it, and feel insulted by it. T'challa is no more "elitist" than any other king who has been an Avenger, and a lot less Arrogant than Tony Stark himself. What exactly is it about Panther that makes people think that how he acts is so much different, I wonder.

well, T'challa actions would in any diplomatic situation easily be consider an act of war against USA, that USA respondes by show of force and not attack is restraint from the USA goverment. Beeing the head of a state he has to seriusly think threw his actions. As for Storm, she is still an american citizents and wife of T'challa. if the president meet with her unregistrated in public then the president has used to undermind the law. It was a political play from booth side. As for the sentiel, it was also piloted by one who wanted to protect her incase some nutjob tried to go after her. Remeber who piloted the sentiel. And there would have been no attack or scene if T'challa had not acted like a loose vigilante then a head of state. He should know his action would provoke action. Regadless of what state he was head of , what coulor of his skinn or religion he belonged to. The whole whitehouse mess can be blamed on T'challa. As well as the reason of why there are solider at his border now.

[XPac]

Ok, LC compared discrimination to discrimination, if you can't see how someone could do that maybe you need to look inward.


T'challa is a foreign head of State who's country has almost been invaded twice in a year as a direct result of American action

His wife was disrespected 2wice on their DIPLOMATIC visit to the US, (1.making a foreign queen register 2. having a mutant watched by a sentinel "just in case" is tantamount to burning a cross on someones lawn or following them around your store)

An American Carrier group is threatining to destroy his country, right now.

American Marines are currently poised to cross the border into his country.

America now has a vast Superhero army poised to be the tip of their spear into any and all internaional confilict, and these "Super heroes" will have no choice in the matter (kinda sounds like slavery)

T'challa is far from indifferent to the US, but has every reason to be wary of it, and feel insulted by it. T'challa is no more "elitist" than any other king who has been an Avenger, and a lot less Arrogant than Tony Stark himself. What exactly is it about Panther that makes people think that how he acts is so much different, I wonder.


Course, with all that going on it kind of makes you wonder why he's in america playing Superhero in the Fantastic Four. Now perhaps isn't the best time to rocket off into space to fight zombies.

[XPac]

As for Storm, she is still an american citizents and wife of T'challa. if the president meet with her unregistrated in public then the president has used to undermind the law. It was a political play from booth side.

In regards to Storm... aside from the fact that she has diplomatic immunity, it's also important to note that she's a mutant. She doesn't NEED to register iwth the Superhero Registration. She's already registered under the MUTANT registration.

It's incredibly demeaning to refuse her becaus she's not registered when she really doesn't need to for a variety or reasons.

[shaunyc56]

well, T'challa actions would in any diplomatic situation easily be consider an act of war against USA, that USA respondes by show of force and not attack is restraint from the USA goverment. Beeing the head of a state he has to seriusly think threw his actions. As for Storm, she is still an american citizents and wife of T'challa. if the president meet with her unregistrated in public then the president has used to undermind the law. It was a political play from booth side. As for the sentiel, it was also piloted by one who wanted to protect her incase some nutjob tried to go after her. Remeber who piloted the sentiel. And there would have been no attack or scene if T'challa had not acted like a loose vigilante then a head of state. He should know his action would provoke action. Regadless of what state he was head of , what coulor of his skinn or religion he belonged to. The whole whitehouse mess can be blamed on T'challa. As well as the reason of why there are solider at his border now.

I'd agree w/ you whole heartidly, except, the carrier group and Marines at the border happened long before T'challa's US stop.

And the 2 beaten back INVASION attempts were thwarted long before the World Tour began also.

And I know Rhodey was in that Sentinel, I'm not saying they were there to kill Storm, I'm saying they were insulting to her, much the way Wolverine felt insulted by them being on the Lawn of the Xmansion. Also, if, say, the Premier of China had a Muslim wife and she was entering the White House going through it's numerous security checks, they wouldn't pull her aside to search her w/ extra scrutiny, they wouldn't do that, to make sure these diplomats did not feel insulted.

[shaunyc56]

Course, with all that going on it kind of makes you wonder why he's in america playing Superhero in the Fantastic Four. Now perhaps isn't the best time to rocket off into space to fight zombies.

Aside from being an honorable guy who is helping out his freind. I think that T'challa has a plan. Maybe along the lines of saving the world a few times and letting the news of it hit earth. Try and win some hearts and minds, and avert another US led Invasion attempt on his country. If not, at least other super heroes would be half hearted if they're ordered to attack Wakanda, which would give his people there a small window to exploit.

[Morw]

Xpac: as I said it was a poltical game thatT'challa should know all to well if he was a head of a state. I dont say it makes it okey, but its very realistic and to be honest Storm should have answeared with " im allready registrated as a mutant" and the whole scene would been over.

shaunyc56: if that wife had spoken posetive about Al-quada and holy war against USA then such action might not be looked at so bad. You make it sounds like her registration is as bad as a full body search. Its a simple paper wich would, in her case, not reveal anything they allready know.

As for the insulting part, it seems like the on thing in Marvel that can get an instant forgivness is a supervillian. The heros of marvel forgive supervillians on regular basis, but when the goverment wants to protect them and use avilebol technoligy to do so there is no forgiving around. I have seen the sentiel's protect the mutants many times now. And yet they are described as burning cross on the lawn. Storm should be intelligent to know just that.

[XPac]

Xpac: as I said it was a poltical game thatT'challa should know all to well if he was a head of a state. I dont say it makes it okey, but its very realistic and to be honest Storm should have answeared with " im allready registrated as a mutant" and the whole scene would been over.



I don't agree it's realistic to refuse entry to a person on the basis of not being registered when A). she's already registered and B) she doesn't need to even if she wasn't. It was downright stupid. You commented on how bad it would look for the president to meed publically with an unregistered person... I'm arguing that's not the situation.

Maybe the scene would have been over if Storm just said she was registered, but if you're BP you're better served NOT sweeing this under the carpet. His wife was treated in a disrespectful and ignorant manner, and he should publically call them on it.

[shaunyc56]

As for the insulting part, it seems like the on thing in Marvel that can get an instant forgivness is a supervillian. The heros of marvel forgive supervillians on regular basis, but when the goverment wants to protect them and use avilebol technoligy to do so there is no forgiving around. I have seen the sentiel's protect the mutants many times now. And yet they are described as burning cross on the lawn. Storm should be intelligent to know just that.[/QUOTE]

I know, I know, Xmen in particular seem ok w/ mass murderers and people who have tried to kill their freinds and family or snake their woman being on X teams.

But, they have heard the Sentinel Song before, remember, these things were almost murdering mutant kids in the streets. And Marvel time, were talking maybe, what, 8yrs ago. Those kinds of wounds don't heal so fast. Remeber, sentinels aren't just "I'm going to take over the world!!! NYAH NYAH HA HA HA HA HA!!!" villians, they're a representation of the US goverment saying "Because of how you were born, we are creating these machines to hunt you down, catalouge, and or kill you."

You gotta give that some time.

[Xanrn]

So let me get this straight, there's not enough diversity in comics.

So you want to take the Black Leader of the New Avengers and put him back into a Thug of the group position in an all Black Super-group.

Lets do that, so a few months down the line, people can complain New Avengers are another white only Super-group.

No there aren't enough decent black Super-heroes, but your not going to do any good by putting all the decent ones into the same Super-group.

Mighty Avengers doesn't have any black members because 3 of thoose who would fit the "mission statement", ie Storm, Monica Rambeu and Black Panther (first 2 because of their powers and BP in the "Ninja" roll). Currently don't like Iron Man very much. War Machine who would fit the the theme aswell, is to busy being the Director of the Iniative Training Base. So who exactly could you put on the Mighty Avengers?

New Excalibur, oh you mean the British Super-Group with only 2 British members out of 6? The European super-group with only 3 Europeans out of 6. Well maybe 4 cause nobody knows where the hell Sage comes from according to uncannyxmen.net. Are there any Black British or European super-heroes. Shouldn't throw another Yank on the team just to put some ethnic in the mix. Plenty of African-British (odd how I have never seen that term used before) to empower and put on the team, I suggest a young character to show Britian training its superheroes aswell. Also kills two birds with one stone.

[shaunyc56]

I don't agree it's realistic to refuse entry to a person on the basis of not being registered when A). she's already registered and B) she doesn't need to even if she wasn't. It was downright stupid. You commented on how bad it would look for the president to meed publically with an unregistered person... I'm arguing that's not the situation.

Maybe the scene would have been over if Storm just said she was registered, but if you're BP you're better served NOT sweeing this under the carpet. His wife was treated in a disrespectful and ignorant manner, and he should publically call them on it.

See, that's my theory. Whether you like the way the State and Defense Dept are depicted in BP, you cannot argue that trying to take T'challa down a peg by insulting his wife is out of character for them.

Also it isn't out of character for Tony Stark to be completely oblivious to it. I don't think he or Rhodey realized it was an insulting thing to do.

[shaunyc56]

So let me get this straight, there's not enough diversity in comics.

So you want to take the Black Leader of the New Avengers and put him back into a Thug of the group position in an all Black Super-group.

Lets do that, so a few months down the line, people can complain New Avengers are another white only Super-group.

No there aren't enough decent black Super-heroes, but your not going to do any good by putting all the decent ones into the same Super-group.

Mighty Avengers doesn't have any black members because 3 of thoose who would fit the "mission statement", ie Storm, Monica Rambeu and Black Panther (first 2 because of their powers and BP in the "Ninja" roll). Currently don't like Iron Man very much. War Machine who would fit the the theme aswell, is to busy being the Director of the Iniative Training Base. So who exactly could you put on the Mighty Avengers?

New Excalibur, oh you mean the British Super-Group with only 2 British members out of 6? The European super-group with only 3 Europeans out of 6. Well maybe 4 cause nobody knows where the hell Sage comes from according to uncannyxmen.net. Are there any Black British or European super-heroes. Shouldn't throw another Yank on the team just to put some ethnic in the mix. Plenty of African-British (odd how I have never seen that term used before) to empower and put on the team, I suggest a young character to show Britian training its superheroes aswell. Also kills two birds with one stone.


That idea about the African-British teen hero on Excalibur sounds great to me. For the record, I agree that the Roster of Excalibur doesn't make sense in any way, just pointing out though, that anyone who has an issue w/ an all Black team and not an all White one, is maybe, a little, inconsistent, we'll call it.

[XPac]

So let me get this straight, there's not enough diversity in comics.

So you want to take the Black Leader of the New Avengers and put him back into a Thug of the group position in an all Black Super-group.

Lets do that, so a few months down the line, people can complain New Avengers are another white only Super-group.

No there aren't enough decent black Super-heroes, but your not going to do any good by putting all the decent ones into the same Super-group.

Mighty Avengers doesn't have any black members because 3 of thoose who would fit the "mission statement", ie Storm, Monica Rambeu and Black Panther (first 2 because of their powers and BP in the "Ninja" roll). Currently don't like Iron Man very much. War Machine who would fit the the theme aswell, is to busy being the Director of the Iniative Training Base. So who exactly could you put on the Mighty Avengers?

New Excalibur, oh you mean the British Super-Group with only 2 British members out of 6? The European super-group with only 3 Europeans out of 6. Well maybe 4 cause nobody knows where the hell Sage comes from according to uncannyxmen.net. Are there any Black British or European super-heroes. Shouldn't throw another Yank on the team just to put some ethnic in the mix. Plenty of African-British (odd how I have never seen that term used before) to empower and put on the team, I suggest a young character to show Britian training its superheroes aswell. Also kills two birds with one stone.


That's a good point... if you put all the high profile african american characters on one book, it basically takes them out of all the other books. To a degree that's what happened with Storm when she was taken out of the X Books and put into BP.

Right now you have high profile african or african american characters leading both the New Avengers and the Fantastic Four (if Nextwave was still being published you could throw Monica in there too). I think a better statement is spreading them out into high profile mainstream books (especially if they are being used well) rather than consolidating them into one book.

Leave Luke Cage alone since he's doing GREAT where he is right now as leader of the New Avengers (becoming Panthers side kick is frankly a step down). I'd leave Monica too there's at least a chance we'll see mor Nextwave.

Just dig up other african american characters. There's still plenty that need the exposure far more than Luke Cage does.

[shaunyc56]

That's a good point... if you put all the high profile african american characters on one book, it basically takes them out of all the other books. To a degree that's what happened with Storm when she was taken out of the X Books and put into BP.

Right now you have high profile african or african american characters leading both the New Avengers and the Fantastic Four (if Nextwave was still being published you could throw Monica in there too). I think a better statement is spreading them out into high profile mainstream books (especially if they are being used well) rather than consolidating them into one book.

Leave Luke Cage alone since he's doing GREAT where he is right now as leader of the New Avengers (becoming Panthers side kick is frankly a step down). I'd leave Monica too there's at least a chance we'll see mor Nextwave.

Just dig up other african american characters. There's still plenty that need the exposure far more than Luke Cage does.


Too true. I agree.

Of course, I thought of LC and BP more as partners than as mentor and sidekick.

[XPac]

Too true. I agree.

Of course, I thought of LC and BP more as partners than as mentor and sidekick.

Well, I think that's how LUKE might think of it... but I think BP might have other ideas. But outside of his wife and a few guys like Captain America, I think when you're Black Panther you kind of view everyone else as your "Robin."

[shaunyc56]

Well, I think that's how LUKE might think of it... but I think BP might have other ideas. But outside of his wife and a few guys like Captain America, I think when you're Black Panther you kind of view everyone else as your "Robin."

LOL, maybe, maybe.

There was an Avengers issue, again, the number escapes me, where Ms. Lia, er, Marvel, asks The Falcon, "What is it like always being thought of as Capt. America's Sidekick?" and his response cracked me up, it was to the effect of "We're all Capt. America's sidekick, I wouldn't have it any other way."

But what got to me is, I don't think Cap would say that. I think if you asked Cap he would say partner, I think if you asked BP, about Luke anyway, he would say the same. (Also, he def doesn't think of Storm as his sidekick, he views her as an equal in their relationship and superior in power level)

[Brian M.]

I'm really getting tired of Hudlin thinking the thing that makes Storm/BP good characters is that they are black. Race shouldn't be the defining factor in these damn characters.

[EnDwiGast]

When I'd talked about Black Panther & Storm spinning off into their own team post-FF, Cage came to mind because of the personal ties established between himself and Black Panther. Hudlin had him being the one most eager for such a team in the pages of Black Panther's book. At the same time I recognized he's busy in New Avengers- and I've like his role there so far.

It makes perfect sense for Black panther & Storm to form a team outside of the US as a potential counter to a US superarmy - but i hope it wouldn't go that route. Frankly having a new group purely in opposition to the established ones to me is not a good premise for its long term survival in terms of sales.

I still think Monica rambeau would be a great member because of the raw power she would bring - and location doesn't matter to her since she can appear anywhere on the globe instantly. With Cage busy, someone like Deathlok - could easily re-locate as well. Vibraxas is in wakanda isn't he? Or how about Triathlon. And it would be great to see some non-American new members too.

I'm not a huge fan of naming them the Defenders since I'm generally against name-hijacking. Besides, the new team should establish its own identity and have its own original name (though truly new and original non-copyrighted names are few and far between these days).

For an FF-style team, they could easly be based outside the US - since taking on FF style threats would bring them across the world, galaxy and between dimensions.

This team would also have to be somewhat along the lines of a family to develop the kind of interpersonal dynamics that a title needs to survive. Series set outside the US usually have the odds tipped against them - which can be overcome if the characters are written in a relatable way to compensate for the unfamiliarity of the surroundings.

I'd like to see parallel groups form in the Far east, india, and South America as well. Its a natural reaction to the Initiative. Though like the Initiative most teams can't get their own title.

An ethnic based team purely in the US is going to be less able to stand on its own on anything but its ethnicity. Though its certainly possible given the right creative inspiration.


i just see an opportunity here that i hope gets taken advantage of. If readers take to Black panther and storm as FF members, then just as they replaced Reed and Sue -- Ben and johnny can be replaced. Instead of a cold start - it could be a continuation from FF with a built in audience bolstered by fans who would check out a new spin-off team more along the lines of New Avengers/Mighty Avengers (minus the animosity) than with Fantastic Force. (Although Fantastic Force is a name I wouldn't mind getting hijacked in this case)

[shaunyc56]

I'm really getting tired of Hudlin thinking the thing that makes Storm/BP good characters is that they are black. Race shouldn't be the defining factor in these damn characters.


I don't think he writes race as the most important thing about these characters, but he does not ignore it. Culturaly, African Americans, and I think Africans, expect that when one of us "makes it" that they "represent" for the culture.

You can see this W/ comedians to business men. Because we have such a history of being excluded, and held down (and relax, I'm not getting all "revolutionary brotha" here, I just mean historically) when someone breaks through we expect them to at least aknowledge it.

Storm has probably been an shining example to little mutant and black girls in the MU since the first time she punched a supervillian. Eloquent, Beautiful, Poised, Elegant, Fierce, and Brave.

Black Panther is a king, he is not only prepared to be a role model, he is accustomed to it. Super Intelligent, Brave, and Handsome, beleive me, in the real world he would be someone all black people would hold in high esteem.

Hudlin is a bit heavy handed at times, quite a bit heavy handed to be honest, but I'm happy he's at least trying.

[EnDwiGast]

I have a question here for some of you diehard Panther fans.

Since when was Wakanda on the coast? Maybe it always was, but otherwise these jarring continuity changes are probably the only real thing i have against the current BP run.

[Magneto Rocks]

I don't think he writes race as the most important thing about these characters, but he does not ignore it. Culturaly, African Americans, and I think Africans, expect that when one of us "makes it" that they "represent" for the culture.

You can see this W/ comedians to business men. Because we have such a history of being excluded, and held down (and relax, I'm not getting all "revolutionary brotha" here, I just mean historically) when someone breaks through we expect them to at least aknowledge it.

Storm has probably been an shining example to little mutant and black girls in the MU since the first time she punched a supervillian. Eloquent, Beautiful, Poised, Elegant, Fierce, and Brave.

Black Panther is a king, he is not only prepared to be a role model, he is accustomed to it. Super Intelligent, Brave, and Handsome, beleive me, in the real world he would be someone all black people would hold in high esteem.

Hudlin is a bit heavy handed at times, quite a bit heavy handed to be honest, but I'm happy he's at least trying.

But even so, that doesn't explain some of the most ridiculous things. Two obvious examples are

1- Racist Doom
2- In BP 21, the crowd cheering the Panther are ALL black. Every single one. The BLACK reporter then talks about how brilliant Panther is, while the white reporter calls them an angry riot crowd. More forgivable if we saw rioters but we don't, they are ALL black, and ALL cheering, so basically the white reporter is lying for no reason.

[Magneto_X]

Boy...Hudlin can't go one lousy interview without mentioning the BET thing. Sheesh. we get it already!
About the title...the only thing offensive about it is how stupid it is.

--Dazz

Of course he's going to say it at every oppotunity!

If he wasn't involved with BET I doubt Marvel would have even known he was alive.

[Magneto_X]

none on Astonishing X-Men team, but noone ever says anything about segregation...:confused: And they all have more than four people.

While AXM doesn't have any black members currently they do have a Russian (Colossus) and an Asian (Armour).

[Magneto_X]

lightning bolts, typhoons, hurricanes, monsoons, snow, thunder, rain...huh, almost makes the invisible woman look like a slouch in the abilites department.

You underestimate Sue. She's the most powerful FF member---by far (re: post-Malice).

IIRC she even wounded a *Celestial* with a force field once!!!!!! :eek:

She can even block telepathy if she covers her head (or others) with force-fields, too.

Not a bad martial artist, either.

[drwho]

Don't mutants themselves represent a minority so color shouldnt be an issue there. :p

[Lanowar]

Also can't Sue just made a forcefield around someone and then crush them?

Yea I'm not a big fan of the panther like in The Other where suddenly he's all knowing about Spider-Man's condition, even when he's not writing a Black Panther story he just can't help having the Panther tell us how cool he is...

[Yaw]

double post

[Yaw]

I have a question here for some of you diehard Panther fans.

Since when was Wakanda on the coast? Maybe it always was, but otherwise these jarring continuity changes are probably the only real thing i have against the current BP run.

MacGregor had it on the coast back in Jungle Action. Unfortunately Wakanda have moved around several different times throughout its history.

[shaunyc56]

I have a question here for some of you diehard Panther fans.

Since when was Wakanda on the coast? Maybe it always was, but otherwise these jarring continuity changes are probably the only real thing i have against the current BP run.

I can remember a "Wakandan Beach w/ no extradition" referred to by Electro when he was on the run in a Spiderman arc maybe a year ago. I think the current veiw of Wakanda is like South Africa, minus the white people and w/ a mix of real and artificial flora and fauna. I don't really have a problem w/ it only because it helps along the political and war w/ the US aspect of things.

If Wakanda was say, like Iran, in the middle of some very rugged mountinous terrain, it would make it very hard to attack. Being on the coast, the enviornment isn't an issue, just Wakandan tech, and warrior spirit.

[Beast]

While AXM doesn't have any black members currently they do have a Russian (Colossus) and an Asian (Armour).
Don't forget that Kitty is Jewish. And Beast, who's no longer even fully human.

If it's going to come down to just diversity via color, that's pretty sad.

[Morw]

Actully: the beach part dont make any sense if you look at it historical. Wakandan would have been a thorn in the eye of the european colonist nation if they defeated the first attempt to take then and they would make an example out of Wakandan to the rest of Africa. Just think of what they did to the Zulu after they won a few fights.

It would make sense to put it inland where the nature also help in protecting the contry, that way it would be easier to fool the war hungry europeans to not find the contry.

[shaunyc56]

But even so, that doesn't explain some of the most ridiculous things. Two obvious examples are

1- Racist Doom
2- In BP 21, the crowd cheering the Panther are ALL black. Every single one. The BLACK reporter then talks about how brilliant Panther is, while the white reporter calls them an angry riot crowd. More forgivable if we saw rioters but we don't, they are ALL black, and ALL cheering, so basically the white reporter is lying for no reason.


Def one of the more heavy handed moments. To the point of seriously bothering me. But in African American culture, we feel that when we have a large gathering, even for peaceful, or celebratory purposes that we scare white people. Freaknick, African American day parade, etc.. Watching the news myself these days, I could imagine it is no longer how it must have been when Mr Hudlin was growing up, but hey, he got the job writing my hero, not me.

I had no real frame of ref for Racist Doom, I thought maybe he was just superior acting to everyone, to the point of being insulting. Which for a supervillian would be fine, however, someone on this board brought to my attention an issue w/ a meeting btwn DOOM and T'challa where Doom does refer to T'challa and his people as savages. He is Doom, so I imagine he knows the level of tech in the society of Wakanda is the most advanced in the world, even for Latveria, but still, the word "savages", maybe Wakandan stealth tech is that good, but even still, I can't see him saying that to Tony Stark.

That poster by the way has the issue number in his sig, I wish I could remeber his name.

[Magneto_X]

Hudlin is a bit heavy handed at times, quite a bit heavy handed to be honest, but I'm happy he's at least trying.

You make it sound as though before Hudlin came along T'Challa was treated like sh*t.

Christopher Priest's BP run is *legendary*. Made me a fan of T'Challa!

Plus Johns' treated him well in his Avengers' stint, too. Same with Busiek in "Ultron Unlimited".

[shaunyc56]

Also can't Sue just made a forcefield around someone and then crush them?

Yea I'm not a big fan of the panther like in The Other where suddenly he's all knowing about Spider-Man's condition, even when he's not writing a Black Panther story he just can't help having the Panther tell us how cool he is...



No reason to pit the ladies against each other, both incredibly formidable, I in fact give sue to edge if were not talking hand to hand combat.

Panther is a Super intellect, just like all the other people Peter went to for help. Unlike the other Big Brains however, he has a link to mysticism, magic and science in Wakanda are both highly advanced, to BP they work hand in hand.

[Magneto_X]

Also can't Sue just made a forcefield around someone and then crush them?


That's the least she can do with it.

[Morw]

Dr. Doom may be a supervillina but he has a set of standers, and he was written as a brute and unintelligent. You should atleast expect the writters to know who they are writting about. That is regadless of who the writter is. many does such mistakes and should be called on it when they make such mistakes.

[shaunyc56]

Don't forget that Kitty is Jewish. And Beast, who's no longer even fully human.

If it's going to come down to just diversity via color, that's pretty sad.



Absolutley right, however, race differences are not just about skin shade, it's about culture. Kitty is Jewish, yes, a people w/ an extremely tough history, but I'm from NY, and trust me, Blacks and Jews are also a very different people. Kitty is much closer to her Team mates culture wise, than say, Celia Reyes. Same w/ Peter. And Beast, give him and image inducer and trust me, he isn't going to look like Micheal Clarke Duncan.

Not being a jerk, that last part was meant a little humourous.

[Beast]

You know why the beach part really doesn't make any sense?

Because Hudlin himself showed the location of Wakanda in one of his first few issues.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/BlackPanther.jpg

[shaunyc56]

You make it sound as though before Hudlin came along T'Challa was treated like sh*t.

Christopher Priest's BP run is *legendary*. Made me a fan of T'Challa!

Plus Johns' treated him well in his Avengers' stint, too. Same with Busiek in "Ultron Unlimited".



Easy dude, I'm not saying that at all. I'm a huge fan of just about everything Preist has done since his Ghost Rider. However I did have two problems w/ his T'challa that I don't w/ Hudlins, the cultural aspect, and T'challa's intellect.

No does Hudlin go to hard at times on the culture, in my opinion yes, but I like that it's there.

I've liked him being in the Avengers everytime he was there, I think he was under utilized a little, but loved seeing him there.

[Yaw]

Don't forget that Kitty is Jewish. And Beast, who's no longer even fully human.

If it's going to come down to just diversity via color, that's pretty sad.


you are right it is sad. I have no problems with an All white team like AXM and no Armour doesn't count as she is not an official member of the team and hasn't been the entire run. So why do you have an issue with a team of four black heroes? Remember you are the one who negatively commented on it by calling it segregation but not viewing an all-WHite team in the same light.

[shaunyc56]

You know why the beach part really doesn't make any sense?

Because Hudlin himself showed the location of Wakanda in one of his first few issues.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/BlackPanther.jpg


Please remeber that when talking about a naval strike, we're talking about Smart bombs and heavy guns. Accurate enough from the coast line you see there to Wakanda. It is the way of modern warfare.

On the Warfare front, I would like to see a Wakandan setup that shows them able to bring the fight to America's shores.

[Yaw]

Absolutley right, however, race differences are not just about skin shade, it's about culture. Kitty is Jewish, yes, a people w/ an extremely tough history, but I'm from NY, and trust me, Blacks and Jews are also a very different people. Kitty is much closer to her Team mates culture wise, than say, Celia Reyes. Same w/ Peter. And Beast, give him and image inducer and trust me, he isn't going to look like Micheal Clarke Duncan.

Not being a jerk, that last part was meant a little humourous.

The problem is when its a team of Blacks, we don't get the same consideration. Above Beast compared a team of Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Monica RAmbeau to a team of all WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). So basically for a team of all Black heroes, their respective cultural backgrounds make no difference as all people (or at least him) will see is color.

[Beast]

you are right it is sad. I have no problems with an All white team like AXM and no Armour doesn't count as she is not an official member of the team and hasn't been the entire run. So why do you have an issue with a team of four black heroes? Remember you are the one who negatively commented on it by calling it segregation but not viewing an all-WHite team in the same light.
You do realize that was me trying to make a point, yes? I wasn't the one putting the focus on the skin color of a team of only black characters. That was Hudlin with his Black-Tas-Tic Four quip. I was being sarcastic in my comments. As in, why segregate the team simply due to the color of their skin.

[shaunyc56]

The problem is when its a team of Blacks, we don't get the same consideration. Above Beast compared a team of Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Monica RAmbeau to a team of all WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). So basically for a team of all Black heroes, their respective cultural backgrounds make no difference as all people will see is color.


Agreed, I am an African American born and raised in the NE bronx. Trust and believe, I have much different culture than a born and raised Southern African American, or Senagalese African of the same ages.

[Beast]

The problem is when its a team of Blacks, we don't get the same consideration. Above Beast compared a team of Storm, Black Panther, Luke Cage and Monica RAmbeau to a team of all WASPs (White Anglo Saxon Protestants). So basically for a team of all Black heroes, their respective cultural backgrounds make no difference as all people (or at least him) will see is color.
Man, do I have to put the winking eye smiley on the end of everything again?

I was trying to make a point. Why is Hudlin focusing on the skin color.

[shaunyc56]

You do realize that was me trying to make a point, yes? I wasn't the one putting the focus on the skin color of a team of only black characters. That was Hudlin. I was being sarcastic in my comments. As in, why segregate the team simply due to the color of their skin.


Again, yes, Hudlin is extremely heavy handed w/ it at times, but the feelings of exclusion are still very potent to African Americans, especially depending on their age.

[Yaw]

You do realize that was me trying to make a point, yes? I wasn't the one putting the focus on the skin color of a team of only black characters. That was Hudlin with his Black-Tas-Tic Four quip. I was being sarcastic in my comments. As in, why segregate the team simply due to the color of their skin.

The Black-Tas-Tic four comment had nothing to do with making an all BLack team?? An all black team has nothing to do with the article. You said:

An all black team? Arn't people always complaining about equality in comics and now they actually want to segregate four black characters off into their own team book? Will there be a token white character also?

Nowhere in that article does Hudlin mention having a four black character team. You were responding to:

If Cage wasn't so busy in New Avengers, it would be great to see Black Panther & Storm,when they inevitably leave the team, form a new team with Cage and Monica Rambeau.

And as far as the title goes, you and other posters assumed he was speaking of race. Maybe you forgot the main character of his book is called "Black Panther?" He could easily be referring to the fact that his star character is about to become the leader of the Fantastic Four while also turning their base into his embassy. Sounds pretty Blacktastic to me.:rolleyes:

[Brandon McKinnis]

Why is this even an issue? The Black-Tastic four sounds stupid anyway....to me it just seems like Hudlin was conveying excitement over the inclusion of BP and storm...Black-Tastic...big deal.

[drwho]

I can only go from what I have read from Hudlin while writing b.p. because the team is the fantastic 4 not the Blacktastic 4. He likes to shove the issue of race into everything. That is why many dont like him. He could have just said fantastic. I dont see anything whatsoever blacktastic about the fantastic four.

[Brandon McKinnis]

I can only go from what I have read from Hudlin while writing b.p. because the team is the fantastic 4 not the Blacktastic 4. He likes to shove the issue of race into everything. That is why many dont like him. He could have just said fantastic. I dont see anything whatsoever blacktastic about the fantastic four.

It's a stupid comment yeah, but is it really worth this much discussion it's not like he called them the {Radio Edit}-Tas-Tic Four. The comment didn't really mean anything, it was a stupid aside and it sounds like the people on this board are making it into much more of a racializing statement than it was probably intended to be. Not to mention he isn't even writing fantastic four.

[kitamu re]

I can only go from what I have read from Hudlin while writing b.p. because the team is the fantastic 4 not the Blacktastic 4. He likes to shove the issue of race into everything. That is why many dont like him. He could have just said fantastic. I dont see anything whatsoever blacktastic about the fantastic four.I love thed the quip the black-tas-tic four..Go Reggie:D

[Expletive Deleted]

It's been a while since we've had this discussion, so I think a little reminder might be in order.

Talk about comics, not each other. If you can't get along with someone, put them on ignore.

Thanks.

[Yaw]

I dont see anything whatsoever blacktastic about the fantastic four.

yeah I guess the fact that BLACK Panther is going to be leading the team and moving his embassy into the Baxter Building mean nothing. I mean the previous leader is Mr. FANTASTIC who was the leader of the FANTASTIC Four. But this has nothing to do with the BLACK Panther will be the leader of the BLACK-tastic four. Nope, not at all.

[LordAllMighty]

Don't forget she can manipulate cosmic storms, solar winds, etc. as well. Not to mention ocean currents. Plus there's flight, her ability to see the energy spectrum, and also has some level of psychic resistance due to her lightning aura. So yeah, she certainly doesn't need to be any more powerful.

LOL, do I see some bitterness in your post?:p

It's a stupid comment yeah, but is it really worth this much discussion it's not like he called them the {Radio Edit}-Tas-Tic Four. The comment didn't really mean anything, it was a stupid aside and it sounds like the people on this board are making it into much more of a racializing statement than it was probably intended to be. Not to mention he isn't even writing fantastic four.

Blowing things out of proportions.....isn't that a normal think on a message boards. :)

To this day, I'm still not sure why some people complain about this book, when they're not forced to read it.:confused:

yeah I guess the fact that BLACK Panther is going to be leading the team and moving his embassy into the Baxter Building mean nothing. I mean the previous leader is Mr. FANTASTIC who was the leader of the FANTASTIC Four. But this has nothing to do with the BLACK Panther will be the leader of the BLACK-tastic four. Nope, not at all.

Do you really see a reason to posting something like this? It really doesn't help anything. If you don't like the idea, then don't read it. :)

[xmanson]

Storm is acting so weird.

[kitamu re]

Storm is acting so weird.

which is cool to me storm is actually acting "black":D

[Alan2099]

yeah I guess the fact that BLACK Panther is going to be leading the team and moving his embassy into the Baxter Building mean nothing. I mean the previous leader is Mr. FANTASTIC who was the leader of the FANTASTIC Four. But this has nothing to do with the BLACK Panther will be the leader of the BLACK-tastic four. Nope, not at all.

You forgot to mention that he was black. :p

I think one of the problems here (ignoring Hudlin, whatever you may think of him) is there really aren't nearly as many black supereheroes as there are white ones. You'll notice how most people that ae actually for a black-vengers/BlackTastic Four/X-Blackmen, Thunderblackbolts/ or whatever team keep using the same few characters they want to see in their line ups.
I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but that means if a writer is going to develop a new line-up for a team, with fewer black characters, there's fewer chances of any being included. I've never once seen any writer come out and say they wanted to put together a team of all white characters.

Now, the easiest way to fix something like this is to actually introduce more black characters, but then you stand a good chance of falling into the trap of making Black characters instead of characterds that just happen to be black.

Black Panther actually has the perfect opportunity to do this, (if he'd ever stay in his own country), Wakanda is primarily a black nation. Are you trying to tell me that Black Panther is the ONLY nonsupervillian superhuman in his country? Why can't he actuay go out and recruit a Wakandan (Wakandian?) superhuman team to defend his own land? That gives you the excuse of throwing together a primarily black team that sin't just a forced issue.

I certainly used the word black a lot in this post.

[LordAllMighty]

which is cool to me storm is actually acting "black":D

That bring up another question.

What is acting Black?

[Alan2099]

That bring up another question.

What is acting Black?

For that matter, Storm has spent her life as a theif in Egypt, an African wether goddess, and then came to the US and spent most of her time issolated in the X-mansion with mostly just other mutants for company.

Why would she "act black"?

[kitamu re]

That bring up another question.

What is acting Black?

I was being sarcastic:rolleyes:

[kitamu re]

For that matter, Storm has spent her life as a theif in Egypt, an African wether goddess, and then came to the US and spent most of her time issolated in the X-mansion with mostly just other mutants for company.

Why would she "act black"?

there is no such thing as acting "black" that post was for certain posters who think being "black" actually means not being "white" :rolleyes:

[Alan2099]

Sorry, it's particulalry hard in this topic to tell sarcasm from somebody actually trying to make a point.

I've seen quite a few people defending Hudlin by saying he makes his characters "act black."

[32Cage]

why is putting four black characters in a team book considered segregation? No blacks are on New Excalibur, none on Mighty Avengers, none on Astonishing X-Men team, but noone ever says anything about segregation...:confused: And they all have more than four people.


Thank you Yaw. You beat me to the punch.

[kitamu re]

Sorry, it's particulalry hard in this topic to tell sarcasm from somebody actually trying to make a point.

I've seen quite a few people defending Hudlin by saying he makes his characters "act black."

it's all good man. I love hudlin's work and can appreciate what he is doing with the both storm and panther. right now they are the power couple elite in the both marvel and dc.

wolverine#52 - BP takes on Sbretooth:cool:
Fantastic Four #544- BP and Storm are the new members
Black Panther #26 - T'challa and storm are a part of one of the oldest teams in comics

Storm is once again high profile. She is going to be a big part of the x-men event this summer and her roles in bp and FF mark the first time she has appeared in more than one book at once. Before storm married BP I couldn't care less about the character now that reg has her I want to buy every issue she appears in. Reg must be doing something right.;)

[Beast]

Thank you Yaw. You beat me to the punch.
What punch? It's still trying to egregate them by color.

[Jaykob]

This Black-Tas-Tic thread just gave me a Black-gasm.

[XPac]

For that matter, Storm has spent her life as a theif in Egypt, an African wether goddess, and then came to the US and spent most of her time issolated in the X-mansion with mostly just other mutants for company.

Why would she "act black"?

She did have a Mr. T phase going for a while... maybe that was her trying to "act" black.

[Alan2099]

She did have a Mr. T phase going for a while... maybe that was her trying to "act" black.

Oddly enough, Storm was inspired to take that look by a Japanese woman.

[32Cage]

What punch? It's still trying to egregate them by color.

Yaw expressed the thought that i had before i could comment. That's what i meant by he beat me to the punch.

In summary, my point is that people get together because they have points of common interest. Sometimes those lines of common interest break along cultural and other lines. That's real world, not idealized.

Tell me whether or not you have seen a group of black guys hanging out. Or a group of girls. Or some other ethnic group at the mall, at a recreational event or at a social event? Do you think they are together just because they want to segregate themselves from people that are not like them? No. They are typically together because they like each others company and they are pursuing or participating in a shared goal or interest. Be honest. Have you ever at one time or another hung out with a group of persons just like you?

Conversely, if four black superheroes want to unite and fight crime together what would be wrong with that? Why should they be viewed any differently than any other team? I summit to you that it is because the majority of comic book readership is accustomed to reading and seeing teams that are composed of people who look like themselves. When that occurs, it's no big deal to them because it is viewed as so-called "normal." However, people who don't look like them catches their eye. Then for some reason something sinister or conspiratorial must be afoot.

When you consider that there are such a small number of black super heroes in the marvel universe it is not unforeseeable that because of their limited numbers they probably at least know of each other and feel a since of fraternity. Why wouldn't or shouldn't they consider the prospect of fighting crime together?

In my opinion there shouldn't be a problem with that no more than there should be a problem when a group like the original X-men got together. If this wasn't fantasy we are talking about and real superpowered people existed, i would pretty much damn well guarentee it that there would be some teams whether subconciously or otherwise split along racial, sexual, or cultrual lines. That is just what people do and its not aways out of an attitude exclusion. We see it at work, at school, in churches and on playgrounds.

The sad thing is that the minority hero is caught between a proverbial rock and a hardspot with the fans. Either he or she is viewed as a forced token placed on a team that they arguably shouldn't be on or if he or she decides to be on a team with others like themselves they are viewed as racist.

[Yaw]

What punch? It's still trying to egregate them by color.

Please do us all a favor and explain how and why you believe this to be true. I would really like to know. Please to not respond with a claim that you are being sarcastic as this is the second time you have made this point. Also please do not suggest you are responding to anything said by Hudlin in the article because this is also not true. The article never makes and direct reference to race. Assuming "blacktastic" is statement to the racial characteristics of Black Panther and Storm as opposed to a reference to Black Panther's name is an assumption. The issue of race is solely been brought up by the posters of this thread.

Like I said before:

Mr. Fantastic leads the Fantastic Four.
Black Panther leads the Blacktastic Four.

I can't believe noone is getting this metaphor.

[Mariah]

I don't see the big deal. So what if there's a superteam with just black characters. You get groups of black people together all the time. Just like there are gay pride parades. We have big festivals for the cinco de mayo festivals for the latino communities. Before they stated Ben Grimm was jewish, the whole FF were all white. All the founding X-Men are white. So, I don't really see a big deal if all black characters got together to form a superteam. Nobody screamed foul when they did it for the Crew.

[Yaw]

When you consider that there are such a small number of black super heroes in the marvel universe it is not unforeseeable that because of their limited numbers they probably at least know of each other and feel a since of fraternity. Why wouldn't or shouldn't they consider the prospect of fighting crime together?


http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/8503/rememberblackheronamesyz3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Young Avengers #7

First Patriot doing drugs and now this. That's it Allan Heinberg is racist!

[Brandon McKinnis]

I don't see the big deal. So what if there's a superteam with just black characters. You get groups of black people together all the time. Just like there are gay pride parades. We have big festivals for the cinco de mayo festivals for the latino communities. Before they stated Ben Grimm was jewish, the whole FF were all white. All the founding X-Men are white. So, I don't really see a big deal if all black characters got together to form a superteam. Nobody screamed foul when they did it for the Crew.

Sure they did...I recall people complaining about "the black avengers". And right on Cage and Yaw, I was brought up this same issue in my Insurgency and The Globalization of Discontent Class. (greatest class ever by the way) just last week. Any attempt for non-whites to gather and form any sort of group is met with extreme hostility by whites, who somehow feel that solidarity is an attack on their whiteness, hence the screaming "why do they get BET." Regardless of the fact that it's privately owned, somehow BET infringes on whiteness, and it's claim to dominion over everything large and small, there by making it "not fair". This is the reason there are gang enhancement clauses when prosecuting minorities, and gang clauses are used almost solely when dealing with non-white minorities, regardless of why they are together too many minorities gathered together make whites extremely uncomfortable (apparently 2 or more). Black-tas-four...a comment small and stupid as it sounds has apparently pissed off some to no end on this board.

[Mariah]

Sure they did...I recall people complaining about "the black avengers". And right on Cage and Yaw, I was brought up this same issue in my Insurgency and The Globalization of Discontent Class. (greatest class ever by the way) just last week. Any attempt for non-whites to gather and form any sort of group is met with extreme hostility by whites, who somehow feel that solidarity is an attack on their whiteness, hence the screaming "why do they get BET." Regardless of the fact that it's privately owned, somehow BET infringes on whiteness, and it's claim to dominion over everything large and small, there by making it "not fair". This is the reason there are gang enhancement clauses when prosecuting minorities, and gang clauses are used almost solely when dealing with non-white minorities, regardless of why they are together too many minorities gathered together make whites extremely uncomfortable (apparently 2 or more). Black-tas-four...a comment small and stupid as it sounds has apparently pissed off some to no end on this board.
Well, that's just stupid. I never read the Crew, so I for sure can't say what they said. It seems on these boards that people liked what Priest did more than Reggie. I wonder are people saying these things more out of their disgust for Reggie or what? He's not the best writer, but he's descent. I didn't care for the Storm/BP wedding, but I'm over it. And I actually liked the wedding issue, although, the art could have been better in the issue. I like that he's going to be bringing back a form of Goliath with his nephew. I'm happy that he actually uses Photon(she should go back to this name since CMIII is dead).

[Brandon McKinnis]

Well, that's just stupid. I never read the Crew, so I for sure can't say what they said. It seems on these boards that people liked what Priest did more than Reggie. I wonder are people saying these things more out of their disgust for Reggie or what? He's not the best writer, but he's descent. I didn't care for the Storm/BP wedding, but I'm over it. And I actually liked the wedding issue, although, the art could have been better in the issue. I like that he's going to be bringing back a form of Goliath with his nephew. I'm happy that he actually uses Photon(she should go back to this name since CMIII is dead).

The crew was one of my all time favorite marvel books ever, I wish they'd release a trade of it. And yea the complaints were pretty stupid...I'll have to dig around some boards and see what I can find.

[Yaw]

Well, that's just stupid. I never read the Crew, so I for sure can't say what they said. It seems on these boards that people liked what Priest did more than Reggie. I wonder are people saying these things more out of their disgust for Reggie or what? He's not the best writer, but he's descent. I didn't care for the Storm/BP wedding, but I'm over it. And I actually liked the wedding issue, although, the art could have been better in the issue. I like that he's going to be bringing back a form of Goliath with his nephew. I'm happy that he actually uses Photon(she should go back to this name since CMIII is dead).

The same complaints that have nothing to do with the quality of writing that Hudlin receives, were received by Priest. The fact that this topic of a black hero team in this thread have nothing to do with Hudlin's comments in the main article imply that there is an intrinsic disgust, dislike and/or distrust towards a book featuring a team of superheroes who happen to be black. This is all based on the fact that a poster commented that a team of Black Panther, Storm, Monica Rambeau and Luke Cage would be interesting. The floodgates were then opened on the subject.

[Magneto_X]

And as far as the title goes, you and other posters assumed he was speaking of race. Maybe you forgot the main character of his book is called "Black Panther?" He could easily be referring to the fact that his star character is about to become the leader of the Fantastic Four while also turning their base into his embassy. Sounds pretty Blacktastic to me.:rolleyes:

Black Widow and Black Knight have "Black" in their names, too. Yet they're white. So having the word in their codename doesn't automatically mean they're got black skin.

[drwho]

Black Widow and Black Knight have "Black" in their names, too. Yet they're white. So having the word in their codename doesn't automatically mean they're got black skin.

Does Hudlin know that? :p

[Yaw]

Black Widow and Black Knight have "Black" in their names, too. Yet they're white. So having the word in their codename doesn't automatically mean they're got black skin.

So my point completely flew over your head didn't it?

BLACK is in the name. So if BLACK Bolt became the leader of Fantastic Four, one could still make the joke about a BLACKtastic Four. THe posters in this thread are the ones who are making the joke into a racial quip.


So again baby steps:

Mr. Fantastic = leader of Fantastic Four

^notice how the team is named after the leader of the team?

Well now that a new member to the team will be the leader while still retaining the identity of the Fantastic Four, the joke is inserts the name of the new leader into the name of the team. Also consider the fact the significant impact Panther is having on the team by turning the Baxter Building into the Wakandan Embassy. Thus this quip could also be alluding to the fact that maybe there will be some conflict at some point where the original members (Thing and Johnny) begin to feel as though Panther is imposing himself on them too much. T'Challa has been known to take charge against others wishes.

So instead of Fantastic Four:

Black Panther= Black-tastic Four (sounds more humorous than "Black Four")

Let's try some other examples so the point is thoroughly made:
Imagine if the following became the new leaders.

Black Bolt = Black-tastic Four
Professor X= X4
Hulk or She-Hulk= HULK-tastic Four

Does this help?

[Magneto_X]

I love thed the quip the black-tas-tic four..Go Reggie:D

Reggie....is that you?!? :eek:

[Magneto_X]

Mr. Fantastic leads the Fantastic Four.
Black Panther leads the Blacktastic Four.

I can't believe noone is getting this metaphor.

Does this mean that if Deadpool was leading the FF it would be the Deadpool-astic Four? :D

[Fatguy]

I wonder are people saying these things more out of their disgust for Reggie or what?

Yea, thats what I was thinking. People tend to jump at shadows when it comes to all things Hudlin, due to the fact he has been known to be quite heavy handed at times.

The interview was fine, this thread seems much ado about nothing...

[Magneto_X]

Sure they did...I recall people complaining about "the black avengers". And right on Cage and Yaw, I was brought up this same issue in my Insurgency and The Globalization of Discontent Class. (greatest class ever by the way) just last week. Any attempt for non-whites to gather and form any sort of group is met with extreme hostility by whites, who somehow feel that solidarity is an attack on their whiteness, hence the screaming "why do they get BET." Regardless of the fact that it's privately owned, somehow BET infringes on whiteness, and it's claim to dominion over everything large and small, there by making it "not fair". This is the reason there are gang enhancement clauses when prosecuting minorities, and gang clauses are used almost solely when dealing with non-white minorities, regardless of why they are together too many minorities gathered together make whites extremely uncomfortable (apparently 2 or more). Black-tas-four...a comment small and stupid as it sounds has apparently pissed off some to no end on this board.

Not all whites are like that.

I'm all for minorities (whether based on skin colour, religion and/or ethnicity) to celebrate their race/things in common.

Mainstream comics have needed more black and/or other ethnicity as super-heroes. But the thing is most of the people who are in those companies
are white men.

Minorities in comics face the same problem that women do, they need to have a bigger role in comics behind the scenes. It is improving, but it's going to take a decade or two to make a signicant impact.

Edit: I read most of Priest's Black Panther, Image's Ant, the new White Tiger mini-series and am a huge fan of Batgirl (Cassandra Cain).

[Alan2099]

So when Invisible Woman led the team it was the Invisi-tastic Four and when Thing led the team it was the Thing-tastic Four?

What about the New fantastic Four? Was that the Spider-tastic Four, the Hulk-tastic Four, The Ghost-astic Four, or the Wolver-tastic Four?

[Magneto_X]

Does Hudlin know that? :p

IIRC Hudlin was surprised that Black Bolt was in fact---white.

I do remember hearing about this story last year.

[Magneto_X]

So my point completely flew over your head didn't it?

BLACK is in the name. So if BLACK Bolt became the leader of Fantastic Four, one could still make the joke about a BLACKtastic Four. THe posters in this thread are the ones who are making the joke into a racial quip.


So again baby steps:

Mr. Fantastic = leader of Fantastic Four

^notice how the team is named after the leader of the team?

Well now that a new member to the team will be the leader while still retaining the identity of the Fantastic Four, the joke is inserts the name of the new leader into the name of the team. Also consider the fact the significant impact Panther is having on the team by turning the Baxter Building into the Wakandan Embassy. Thus this quip could also be alluding to the fact that maybe there will be some conflict at some point where the original members (Thing and Johnny) begin to feel as though Panther is imposing himself on them too much. T'Challa has been known to take charge against others wishes.

So instead of Fantastic Four:

Black Panther= Black-tastic Four (sounds more humorous than "Black Four")

Let's try some other examples so the point is thoroughly made:
Imagine if the following became the new leaders.

Black Bolt = Black-tastic Four
Professor X= X4
Hulk or She-Hulk= HULK-tastic Four

Does this help?

*sigh* I'll try to appear more sarcastic next time. 'Kay?

[The Master Meglomaniac]

I wonder which FF foes this new FF will face? Seems to me, with Richards out of the picture, Doom would have little interest in this new FF.

[Fatguy]

So my point completely flew over your head didn't it?

BLACK is in the name. So if BLACK Bolt became the leader of Fantastic Four, one could still make the joke about a BLACKtastic Four. THe posters in this thread are the ones who are making the joke into a racial quip.


So again baby steps:

Mr. Fantastic = leader of Fantastic Four

^notice how the team is named after the leader of the team?

Lets not kid ourselves here...Black-tas-tic Four is a double-entendre. If Black Bolt lead the team, they would not call it the Black-tas-tic Four. He called it that now because he's the Black Panther AND he and Storm are black super heroes. That being said, I dont get why thats a big deal what his intentions were with the name. I could be wrong, but either way it seems rather tongue in cheek and hardly offensive.

And I could be completely wrong here, but I'm pretty sure the Fantastic Four are not named after Mr. Fantastic. Someone can feel free to correct me, but I thought Reed took on his name after they were dubbed the FF.

[kitamu re]

The interview was fine, this thread seems much ado about nothing...

I agree but this thread is great fun (gotta love those BP threads);)

[Alan2099]

IIRC Hudlin was surprised that Black Bolt was in fact---white.

I do remember hearing about this story last year.

I suspected as much. Did he find out that Apocalypse, the guy Blackbolt blasted away, was actually a dark skinned Egyptian?

[Yaw]

So when Invisible Woman led the team it was the Invisi-tastic Four and when Thing led the team it was the Thing-tastic Four?

What about the New fantastic Four? Was that the Spider-tastic Four, the Hulk-tastic Four, The Ghost-astic Four, or the Wolver-tastic Four?

Exactly! Now you are getting it. The point is he was making a joke.

Class dismissed.

[Magneto_X]

I suspected as much. Did he find out that Apocalypse, the guy Blackbolt blasted away, was actually a dark skinned Egyptian?

Somebody at Marvel probably told him by now.

[kitamu re]

I suspected as much. Did he find out that Apocalypse, the guy Blackbolt blasted away, was actually a dark skinned Egyptian?

why would that matter. :rolleyes:

[CmX]

Hudlin is such a shitty writer and this shitty title should be cancelled.

[Lanowar]

Out of curiosty how long does a Black Panther thread take before it into this?

Both sides have there arguements me personally I don't like his take on Panther it's just every issue is a crossover with someone as if Panther can't simply have adventures of his own he needs to jump into someone else's work ala House Of M where he kills Sabertooth and then Apocalypse. Sometimes it's just annoying when you look through what's coming out and it's Black Panther meets "insert somthing popular" I'd like to see Panther do somthing intresing based on his own accord rather then having to tell us how good he is by I dunno punching the Silver Surfer in the face.

[Omega Alpha]

Both sides have there arguements me personally I don't like his take on Panther it's just every issue is a crossover with someone as if Panther can't simply have adventures of his own he needs to jump into someone else's work ala House Of M where he kills Sabertooth and then Apocalypse.

Black Panther did not killed Apocalypse in House of M, Black Bolt did it. And BP could take Sabretooth, it's nothing absurd.

But i'm not saying i disagree with your point, seems like in every issue, T'challa must kick the ass of a popular character to make him look good.

[32Cage]

Black Widow and Black Knight have "Black" in their names, too. Yet they're white. So having the word in their codename doesn't automatically mean they're got black skin.

You're missing the point. When were Black Widow or Black Knight members of the Fantastic Four?

[xarathos]

Can we 'always BET on Black' Panter?

Passenger 57

[Brandon McKinnis]

Not all whites are like that.

I'm all for minorities (whether based on skin colour, religion and/or ethnicity) to celebrate their race/things in common.

Mainstream comics have needed more black and/or other ethnicity as super-heroes. But the thing is most of the people who are in those companies
are white men.

Minorities in comics face the same problem that women do, they need to have a bigger role in comics behind the scenes. It is improving, but it's going to take a decade or two to make a signicant impact.

Edit: I read most of Priest's Black Panther, Image's Ant, the new White Tiger mini-series and am a huge fan of Batgirl (Cassandra Cain).

I know not all whites are like that, I understand I'm speaking in generalities. And I haven't read ANT is it good?

[Brandon McKinnis]

Can we 'always BET on Black' Panter?

Passenger 57

Man... umm, I guess if it's boxing or a sport that has a ball.

[shaunyc56]

Out of curiosty how long does a Black Panther thread take before it into this?

Both sides have there arguements me personally I don't like his take on Panther it's just every issue is a crossover with someone as if Panther can't simply have adventures of his own he needs to jump into someone else's work ala House Of M where he kills Sabertooth and then Apocalypse. Sometimes it's just annoying when you look through what's coming out and it's Black Panther meets "insert somthing popular" I'd like to see Panther do somthing intresing based on his own accord rather then having to tell us how good he is by I dunno punching the Silver Surfer in the face.

You should check out the first couple arcs by Hudlin. Panther's father's asassination was done very well, as was the way Panther was able to stop 2 invasions on his country.

[The Cool Thatguy]

You should check out the first couple arcs by Hudlin. Panther's father's asassination was done very well, as was the way Panther was able to stop 2 invasions on his country.

I wouldn't cite those as examples of great writing. Hudlin made a point to emphasize that Wakanda technology was Kirby-ish long before T'Challa, yet this super science can't detect Klaw in the Hotel room? The King dies not in an epic battle, but what might as well be a poor man's home invasion.

His stopping of two invasions wasn't that impressive either. Somehow, his intelligence services, better than the CIA and equal to the Mossad, missed a massive troop build up right next door. When you miss troop build up across your own borders, you automatically suck.

After barely containing the Pathetic Six, a cyborg army walks up to his capital, only to be told to leave. If they'd resisted, Panther would have been SOL.

[EnDwiGast]

MacGregor had it on the coast back in Jungle Action. Unfortunately Wakanda have moved around several different times throughout its history.

Thank you. I really do need to go back and read McGregor's Panther again.

I just remember Wakanda as being landlocked at some point. I don't have an issue with Wakanda having a coast either (thanks shaunyc56). It just clashed with me memory of the place - so i'm glad it wasn't just me remembering it wrong.

[EnDwiGast]

Actully: the beach part dont make any sense if you look at it historical. Wakandan would have been a thorn in the eye of the european colonist nation if they defeated the first attempt to take then and they would make an example out of Wakandan to the rest of Africa. Just think of what they did to the Zulu after they won a few fights.

It would make sense to put it inland where the nature also help in protecting the contry, that way it would be easier to fool the war hungry europeans to not find the contry.

This is why I thought Wakanda was inland too.

[TheGreatest]

If he wasn't involved with BET I doubt Marvel would have even known he was alive.

As I recall, he started writing Panther before he got the BET job.

[The Cool Thatguy]

As I recall, he started writing Panther before he got the BET job.

I think so too. IIRC, when he took over BET, he resigned from all other comics (only other title he was doing at the time was Spidey).


And while I'm no fan of the man's writing, I doubt his being appointed to run BET and write Black Panther was made at random without any consideration.

[kitamu re]

I think so too. IIRC, when he took over BET, he resigned from all other comics (only other title he was doing at the time was Spidey).


And while I'm no fan of the man's writing, I doubt his being appointed to run BET and write Black Panther was made at random without any consideration.

reg is a supermind in the field of entertainment. a harvard grad with the cred to back it up. Reg is a multimillinaire he doesn't need to write BP to support his family he is doing this because he loves it..any one with that committment gets most props..and I also know reg is not going to give BP an anueryism:D

[The Cool Thatguy]

reg is a supermind in the field of entertainment. a harvard grad with the cred to back it up. Reg is a multimillinaire he doesn't need to write BP to support his family he is doing this because he loves it..any one with that committment gets most props..and I also know reg is not going to give BP an anueryism:D

Nope! He'll have an African king making pop culture references, interspaced with dialogue that was old in the Silver Age as well as a few lines toss away warrior lines. And to make him even better, Hudlin will define Panther's bad assness not by what the character can do, but by what he was hand given or stolen. Sweet!

[Magneto_X]

Out of curiosty how long does a Black Panther thread take before it into this?

Both sides have there arguements me personally I don't like his take on Panther it's just every issue is a crossover with someone as if Panther can't simply have adventures of his own he needs to jump into someone else's work ala House Of M where he kills Sabertooth and then Apocalypse. Sometimes it's just annoying when you look through what's coming out and it's Black Panther meets "insert somthing popular" I'd like to see Panther do somthing intresing based on his own accord rather then having to tell us how good he is by I dunno punching the Silver Surfer in the face.

Maybe they should alter the title to "Black Panther Presents"?

[Magneto_X]

I know not all whites are like that, I understand I'm speaking in generalities. And I haven't read ANT is it good?

Very good. I highly recommend it.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Hudlin is such a shitty writer and this shitty title should be cancelled.

Its back on my pull list starting with #544 . Its a great concept and Dwayne McDuffie will make it click. He's gonna do some awesome things with Storm/T'Challa I hope. Man is Storm getting the full court press...she's gonna be in FF and X-Men ! WOW.

[Magneto_X]

I wouldn't cite those as examples of great writing. Hudlin made a point to emphasize that Wakanda technology was Kirby-ish long before T'Challa, yet this super science can't detect Klaw in the Hotel room? The King dies not in an epic battle, but what might as well be a poor man's home invasion.

T'Challa had Kirby tech in Priest's run, too. Used it regularly to make people his b*tches.

His stopping of two invasions wasn't that impressive either. Somehow, his intelligence services, better than the CIA and equal to the Mossad, missed a massive troop build up right next door. When you miss troop build up across your own borders, you automatically suck.

After barely containing the Pathetic Six, a cyborg army walks up to his capital, only to be told to leave. If they'd resisted, Panther would have been SOL.

Damn. Priest's BP would have handled that much better and make him look like a badass in the process.

Read "Enemy of the State" I and II for what Priest's BP does when the U.S. and other countries try to mess with Wakanda.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Can we 'always BET on Black' Panter?

Passenger 57

Hell I heard about that show with the rap stars being managers of MMA fighters. Don't give BET or Hudlin any ideas . :p

[Magneto_X]

As I recall, he started writing Panther before he got the BET job.

My mistake.

[kitamu re]

My mistake.

you have made alot of mistakes in this thread..get it together man;)

[geordiesteve]

The title of this interview seems so wrong. Hopefully Dwayne can teach hudlin how to properly write comic characters.

Zing!!!!!!!!!! Spot on, my friend. Spot. On! :)

[DoctorDoom]

I'n interested in seeing where BP leads...

[Johnny_Storm]

This new team looks like it could produce some interesting stories. I have never seen BP in a lead a superhero team, but if he can keep a country together the Fantastic Four should be easy enough.

[LordAllMighty]

This new team looks like it could produce some interesting stories. I have never seen BP in a lead a superhero team, but if he can keep a country together the Fantastic Four should be easy enough.

I still find it odd that BP will be leading a super-hero team with Storm on it.:confused:

[CMBMOOL]

After re-reading the article several times, I think that this team could work even if Hudlin is writing half of it, besides I have faith in Dwayne McDuffie, I mean with his experiance in writing comics he can write up a good FF.

Also he created Static Shock and written within DC's JLA and JLU, a great accomplishment for an african American writer. :D

[Magneto_X]

Duffie really should have been given the writing slot on Justice League instead of the guy from Identity Crisis. His eps on JL:U showed he knew how to make the Justice League look cool.

I am glad he's on FF, too.

[32Cage]

Duffie really should have been given the writing slot on Justice League instead of the guy from Identity Crisis. His eps on JL:U showed he knew how to make the Justice League look cool.

I am glad he's on FF, too.

His first fantastic four issue was pretty good imo.

[Citizen V]

Next week, Marvel’s latest super couple will do a favor for its first super couple, as the Black Panther and Storm fill in for Reed and Sue Richards in the FF. CBR News spoke with “Black Panther” writer Reggie Hudlin about the book.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10090

I cant help but ask..is the writer colored?To say it nicely.

[We R. Venom]

I cant help but ask..is the writer colored?To say it nicely.

I think BP was much better this week. Oh the bugs killed me lol.

[Sean Whitmore]

I cant help but ask..is the writer colored?To say it nicely.

Well, thank God you said it nicely.


SEAN

[drwho]

The covers of the Black PAnther and FF look similar I thought one of them was a variant cover and left the stupid thing at the store. :evilangry

[Expletive Deleted]

The covers of the Black PAnther and FF look similar I thought one of them was a variant cover and left the stupid thing at the store. :evilangryI almost wish one of 'em had been a variant. Then I wouldn't have had to buy the Michael Turner cover.

[Brandon McKinnis]

Hudlin's work actually seems a lot better when he's working within an event or in tandem with another writer like McDuffie...oh and yeah "Black-Tas-Tic Four", they all wear black, it works ...peace sign.

[Yaw]

I cant help but ask..is the writer colored?To say it nicely.

Damn you said "colored." LOL you must not be AMerican.

(Word of Advice: Some folks find the use of "colored" offensive at it recalls the Jim Crow era of the American South.)

[Crimson]

Damn you said "colored." LOL you must not be AMerican.

(Word of Advice: Some folks find the use of "colored" offensive at it recalls the Jim Crow era of the American South.)

Too be fair, its very hard to figure out what is PC these days... especially on the net where you are talking to people from many different cultures. I'm sure most of us at one point or another have all known "coloured", "black" and "African American" to all be the correct term to use. As long as its not said with any negative connotations, hopefully no one will have an issue with it.

But yes, Reggie is black.

But I digress or this will turn into (an even more) racial driven debate instead of the actual book.:)

[shaunyc56]

Damn you said "colored." LOL you must not be AMerican.

(Word of Advice: Some folks find the use of "colored" offensive at it recalls the Jim Crow era of the American South.)



Oh, I get it now, I thought he meant some paint fell on the guy.
;)

[CMBMOOL]

Hudlin's work actually seems a lot better when he's working within an event or in tandem with another writer like McDuffie...oh and yeah "Black-Tas-Tic Four", they all wear black, it works ...peace sign.

I kinda agree that it does suit the way the team is headed. :o

[tjarvis]

You know I have to say that I'm buying Black Panther now. When it first came out, I didn't really enjoy it. It did seem preachy and over the top on its racial politics, but those elements seem to have been toned down.

Hudlin is actually producing a fun comic to me now. I loved the Annihilation bugs in the last issue for example. Although I'm not sure why there were tiny in the first scene and human sized in the second one. Still, that was good times. Plus his Reed was actually human and caring which was nice to see.

[XPac]

Hudlin for me is always a mixed bag. I think his continuity is really bad (especially in the first arc), and the race card is sometimes a little too in your face for my tastes.

However, despite all that plus the occasionally annoying god complex he gives Panther, at heart it really is a fun book. He's done a lot in making Panther a really A list character, and an important part of the MU (though Priest deserves the credit for starting that ball rolling).

[kitamu re]

However, despite all that plus the occasionally annoying god complex he gives Panther, at heart it really is a fun book. He's done a lot in making Panther a really A list character, and an important part of the MU (though Priest deserves the credit for starting that ball rolling).

one thing you have tyo give reg is that he is giving us a great read every month and I don't feel after 25 issues he is going thru the motions, he is really making BP one of the best books out there just based on what a fun read it is.

[Citizen V]

Well, thank God you said it nicely.


SEAN

Im serious,is this a diverse move for the Fantastic Four?

[32Cage]

one thing you have tyo give reg is that he is giving us a great read every month and I don't feel after 25 issues he is going thru the motions, he is really making BP one of the best books out there just based on what a fun read it is.

After the initial issues of the book i had some reservations. However i hung in there and am now glad i did. With Panther now being a member of the new fantastic four i can see him at least two times a month. Life's good.

[XPac]

After the initial issues of the book i had some reservations. However i hung in there and am now glad i did. With Panther now being a member of the new fantastic four i can see him at least two times a month. Life's good.

Yeah... the initial issues kind of left a bad taste in my mouth. I really felt like the guy writing didn't read marvel comics at all.

But I too hang in there, and it really did get better. The book started out like Ultimate Black Panther or something, but it does now feel like a part of the regular MU.

[kitamu re]

After the initial issues of the book i had some reservations. However i hung in there and am now glad i did. With Panther now being a member of the new fantastic four i can see him at least two times a month. Life's good.

real good;)

[Brandon McKinnis]

was that kilmonger at the end of BP? if so maybe HUdlin is trying to incorporate some of Priest's work....hopefully that means, you guessed it, Kasper Cole will be back.

[Magneto_X]

one thing you have tyo give reg is that he is giving us a great read every month and I don't feel after 25 issues he is going thru the motions, he is really making BP one of the best books out there just based on what a fun read it is.

You should read Priest's BP run.

[kitamu re]

You should read Priest's BP run.

I have every issue up to 62, and it is not as fun as Hudlin's not by a long shot. How many issues of each run do you have because I do have them all.

[XPac]

You should read Priest's BP run.

Though I personally prefer Priests version of Panther (he was cool without having to be potrayed as so much better than everyone else in the entire freaking MU like Hudlin does), there's no doubt that Hudlins Panther is a bigger sucess.

[Kirk G]

Does anyone else find the title to this thread insulting or at least insensitive?

[kitamu re]

Does anyone else find the title to this thread insulting or at least insensitive?

no they are talking about the new Fantastic four costumes..like spiderman back in black.

[Sean Whitmore]

no they are talking about the new Fantastic four costumes..like spiderman back in black.

Which was actually changed from the initial tagline:

Spider-Man: Once You Go Black You Never Go Back


sean

[Haunt]

Does anyone else find the title to this thread insulting or at least insensitive?

'Black Fantastic Four' would have been kind of insulting. so would 'Fantastic Four: Now with Rhythm." but 'Blacktastic' is sort of the new 'Fabulous.'

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Which was actually changed from the initial tagline:

Spider-Man: Once You Go Black You Never Go Back


sean

Hell you didn't see the carbon of this called: FF: Cracker-Tas-Tic-Four did you ? :p

[Magneto_X]

Though I personally prefer Priests version of Panther (he was cool without having to be potrayed as so much better than everyone else in the entire freaking MU like Hudlin does), there's no doubt that Hudlins Panther is a bigger sucess.

Hudlin's run has the advantage of having a single artist (not many practically changing every few months, most of whom are still "under the radar"), is given far more publicity, said artist is an A-lister who has a huge following in comics (you could put him on anything and it'd sell like hotcakes) *and* every other month has a crossover with A-list or B-list Marvel characters.

Priest rarely had cross overs with big Marvel characters in his run. And he didn't publicise it to much when they showed up, either.

[Sean Whitmore]

Hudlin's run has the advantage of having a single artist

.....huh? :confused:


SEAN

[Magneto_X]

.....huh? :confused:


SEAN

Priest's run didn't go 12 issues without changing artists--even mid-arcs weren't unaffected. If the book had an actual regular artist (especially an A or B-lister) the series could have sold in higher numbers IMHO.

[Sean Whitmore]

I wasn't "huh"ing the rotating artists of Priest's run, I was wondering where you got the idea that Hudlin's run has only had one artist.

Off the top of my head, I'm remembering five. Only two of which with any name recognition whatsoever (which is being fair in Scott Eaton's case).


SEAN

[The Cool Thatguy]

Though I personally prefer Priests version of Panther (he was cool without having to be potrayed as so much better than everyone else in the entire freaking MU like Hudlin does), there's no doubt that Hudlins Panther is a bigger sucess.

Not really. Priest didn't have half the backing Hudlin does, both inside Marvel and out. Priest had to fight and scrape for every last favor, whereas Hudlin has had anything he wanted offered up on a silver platter.

Really, if you consider all the effort put into it, Hudlin's book is a much greater failure than Priest's. At least Priest could maintain critical acclaim. Hudlin's run is looked seen as merely good at best, and proven unable to hold the sales from crossovers. That's hardly a success.

[mimic_616]

I'm no fan of Black Panther or the FF but I hear the words Zombieverse and I'm sold! :D

[XPac]

Not really. Priest didn't have half the backing Hudlin does, both inside Marvel and out. Priest had to fight and scrape for every last favor, whereas Hudlin has had anything he wanted offered up on a silver platter.

Really, if you consider all the effort put into it, Hudlin's book is a much greater failure than Priest's. At least Priest could maintain critical acclaim. Hudlin's run is looked seen as merely good at best, and proven unable to hold the sales from crossovers. That's hardly a success.

Objectively speaking, I don't agree that the Black Panther series hasn't really been sucessful. In a fairly tough market, a book based on a character that was considered fairly secondardy (until Hudlin started pushing him to the forefront) doing as well as it is now is certainly respectable. I don't see it being cancelled anytime soon. And Marvel is doing more with the character than it ever has. He's turned BP into an A list character and has an on-going solo book that's not going anywhere soon. I'd say that's a sucess when you consider where the character and publication history was before he got his hands on him.

I think Priest did a lot of awesome things with the character, but Hudlin really took him to the next level.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

BP has always been a great group character. That was where his really shined. The issues Johns did with him in Avengers was pretty damn solid. Panther even with the "pushing" by Hudlin to get him to the next level isn't getting Panther to the A-List because beyond Civil War and World War Hulk I doubt the series will last. It needs the cross-overs and events to pump its sales.

Its a lot like Hawkman at DC. The character isn't considered an A-List star by any means. The writers don't do stories trying to push that since people would likely laugh at a character who can barely keep a series running . Hawkman's in the JSA and considered its leader at times. DC has wisely used Hawkman in storylines like Identity Crisis to show his leadership qualities and made the other characters stand as well next to him.

I've heard people use the word "fanfic" to describe Hudlin's work on the series. That T'Challa is his Mary-Sue character and it seems to fit. Because look at the arguements. Not only does every character seem to pale to him that he runs across in a storyline , T'Challa is written as stronger , smarter ....ect ect.

Then there was the wedding storyline that lasted 6 issues. So not only does Hudlin have his Mary-Sue being ahead of all other heroes now he's married him as well. I suspect he'll odds are convince Quesada to have T'Challa to have a kid as well since it fits the Mary-Sue arguement.

After reading all this I can see why some have tagged Hudlin's work as that.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Objectively speaking, I don't agree that the Black Panther series hasn't really been sucessful. In a fairly tough market, a book based on a character that was considered fairly secondardy (until Hudlin started pushing him to the forefront) doing as well as it is now is certainly respectable. I don't see it being cancelled anytime soon. And Marvel is doing more with the character than it ever has. He's turned BP into an A list character and has an on-going solo book that's not going anywhere soon. I'd say that's a sucess when you consider where the character and publication history was before he got his hands on him.

I think Priest did a lot of awesome things with the character, but Hudlin really took him to the next level.

When you put dramatically more effort into something, and get the same results, I think that can be considered a failure. Outside of crossovers, it's been shown that BP loses sales on a steady basis. Crossovers is the only thing substaining Panther with decent numbers, and that can't last forever.

And as a writer, Hudlin has done little that Priest didn't do already, and better. Priest made T'Challa an international player, a leader of his own super power. He even proposed T'Challa marrying Storm, but was shot down by editors.

The only think really saving Panther's current series is that Marvel has decided that the series is their best chance for hooking African American readers, and I can't see that delusion lasting forever.

[XPac]

When you put dramatically more effort into something, and get the same results, I think that can be considered a failure. Outside of crossovers, it's been shown that BP loses sales on a steady basis. Crossovers is the only thing substaining Panther with decent numbers, and that can't last forever.

And as a writer, Hudlin has done little that Priest didn't do already, and better. Priest made T'Challa an international player, a leader of his own super power. He even proposed T'Challa marrying Storm, but was shot down by editors.

The only think really saving Panther's current series is that Marvel has decided that the series is their best chance for hooking African American readers, and I can't see that delusion lasting forever.

But that's the thing... I don't think the results are the same.

I think the BP book now has firmer legs to stand on as far as contining as an on-going series, and I also think the BP character's status in the MU has been elevated.

I'm not knocking Priest at all... I personally preferred his Panther better. But objectively speaking, I think Hudlin took the series and the character to another level of exposure and status in the MU.

[Ty19]

I think Hudlin took the series and the character to another level of exposure and status in the MU.

Hudlin's writing has done nothing to change BP's exposure and status. Every storyline to date has fallen short of the promise to deliver great adventure and keenly executed plotlines. This has been displayed best during his latest additions to the Civil War saga. Major disappointment. Even some hardcore Hudlin supporters from other sites have agreed on this point.

To add to Thatguy's argument, it's already been documented by Priest himself, via his past blogs and commentaries, that most of Hudlin's major ideas/plotlines to date were either:

1) already pitched/presented to Marvel years ago by Priest, and/or
2) have already been written in some form or fashion by Priest himself.

Marvel's decision to include BP in so many MAJOR crossover issues and better market the book than in previous BP volumes is the only factor that has added to BP's elevated status in the MU.

Just to clarify myself, I ain't a Hudlin hater, But I do dislike most of his work on BP to date, as well as some of his online actions. And I am soooo glad that McDuffie is off to a great start on his stint as writer of FF (and consequently Black Panther!) And I'm glad he's taking Storm out of "Halle_Berry_mode" and putting her back into "Angela_Bassett_mode".

[kitamu re]

over at the beat (http://http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/29/marvel-month-to-month-sales-february-2007/)you can get a feel for what is working marketing wise for marvel's year two books (black panther) and how well the book has been doing.


just a litle more info for the naysayers who think BP can't hold his own in this market.

32. BLACK PANTHER
02/02 #41 - 19,523
02/03 #54 - 17,401
02/05 #1 - 50,490
=====
02/06 #13 - 26,054 ( -6.7%)
03/06 #14 - 28,809 ( +10.6%)
04/06 #15 - 28,361 ( -1.6%)
05/06 #16 - 28,091 ( -1.0%)
06/06 #17 - 27,993 ( -0.3%)
07/06 #18 - 69,912 (+149.7%)
08/06 #19 - 28,372 ( -59.4%)
09/06 #20 - 26,585 ( -6.3%)
10/06 #21 - 34,257 ( +28.9%)
11/06 #22 - 47,556 ( +38.8%)
12/06 #23 - 54,762 ( +15.2%)
01/07 #24 - 59,971 ( +9.5%)
02/07 #25 - 56,479 ( -5.8%)
6 mnth ( +99.1%)
1 year (+116.8%)
2 year ( +11.9%)

This is the concluding part of a CIVIL WAR crossover arc, and as you’d expect, the sales have been boosted accordingly. Issue #24 picks up reorders of 2,262. After this, the Black Panther and Storm join the cast of FANTASTIC FOUR for a while, which should keep up the audience attention. BLACK PANTHER is clearly a high priority for Marvel, but the lingering question is whether the constant string of events is helping it to develop a bigger core following.

6 month comparisons
===================

+99.1% - Black Panther
+62.7% - Iron Man
+16.3% - Amazing Spider-Man
+ 7.4% - Marvel Adventures Spider-Man
+ 7.2% - Sensational Spider-Man
+ 3.5% - Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
+ 2.2% - Thunderbolts
- 0.7% - Runaways
- 1.3% - Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four
- 1.8% - Astonishing X-Men
- 2.1% - She-Hulk
- 3.7% - Punisher
- 3.8% - Ultimate Spider-Man
- 4.5% - Incredible Hulk
- 5.3% - Powers
- 6.7% - Exiles
- 7.0% - Uncanny X-Men
- 7.5% - Daredevil
- 7.8% - New X-Men
- 7.9% - Civil War
- 8.3% - Ultimate X-Men
- 8.9% - Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane
- 9.3% - X-Men
-11.0% - Nextwave
-12.2% - Wolverine
-14.3% - X-Factor
-16.1% - New Avengers
-16.7% - New Excalibur
-18.1% - Marvel Adventures Avengers
-20.0% - Civil War: Front Line
-20.7% - Eternals
-21.1% - Ghost Rider
-34.5% - Wolverine: Origins
-35.5% - Ultimate Fantastic Four
-55.0% - Ms Marvel
-55.5% - Cable & Deadpool
-70.9% - Heroes for Hire

1 year comparison
=================

+165.0% - Thunderbolts
+116.8% - Black Panther
+ 50.1% - Iron Man
+ 29.1% - Wolverine
+ 27.5% - Amazing Spider-Girl
+ 16.0% - Cable & Deadpool
+ 9.7% - Marvel Adventures Spider-Man
+ 8.0% - Amazing Spider-Man
+ 5.1% - New Avengers
+ 5.0% - Uncanny X-Men
+ 4.1% - Ultimate Spider-Man
+ 3.7% - Runaways
+ 2.9% - She-Hulk
+ 0.6% - Sensational Spider-Man
- 2.1% - Marvel Legacy Handbooks
- 3.7% - X-Men
- 3.9% - Punisher
- 3.9% - Exiles
- 4.3% - Marvel Adventures Fantastic Four
- 10.4% - New X-Men
- 11.5% - Ultimate X-Men
- 11.8% - Daredevil
- 11.9% - Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man
- 12.0% - Powers
- 12.7% - Ghost Rider
- 13.0% - Incredible Hulk
- 19.2% - Astonishing X-Men
- 20.0% - Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane
- 20.8% - X-Factor
- 23.3% - Ultimate Fantastic Four
- 27.9% - Nextwave
- 33.3% - New Excalibur

2 year comparisons
==================

+113.7% - Thunderbolts
+ 81.9% - Amazing Spider-Man
+ 20.5% - She-Hulk
+ 18.3% - Wolverine
+ 11.9% - Black Panther
+ 5.0% - Spider-Girl
+ 4.9% - Cable & Deadpool
+ 4.4% - Incredible Hulk
+ 0.6% - New X-Men
- 1.7% - Sensational Spider-Man
- 1.9% - Exiles
- 4.0% - Daredevil
- 6.6% - Uncanny X-Men
- 10.0% - X-Men
- 10.7% - Astonishing X-Men
- 12.4% - New Avengers
- 14.2% - Ultimate Spider-Man
- 14.9% - Punisher
- 17.1% - Runaways
- 22.3% - X-23
- 23.1% - Ultimate X-Men
- 23.1% - Powers
- 31.5% - Doctor Strange
- 54.7% - X-Men: Phoenix

[Ty19]

just a litle more info for the naysayers who think BP can't hold his own in this market.


Your post seems a little bit misleading. First you state that BP can hold its "OWN" in this market. Then to prove your point you present percentages and sales comparisons that show sales increases when BP isn't standing on its "OWN", but as part of a major crossover event.

If you ONLY look at BP's sales when it truly is standing on it's "OWN" (i.e._no_crossover), then the numbers clearly show that sales are on a very steady decline. Maybe after this Civil War thing, BP might hold a few more readers than it did since issue #20, when it was truly on its "OWN".:)

Edit:
Then again, BP is still in the middle of another crossover event...with the Fantastic Four.

"How many licks does it take to get to the center of BP's true standalone sales...The world may never know.";)

[XPac]

Hudlin's writing has done nothing to change BP's exposure and status. Every storyline to date has fallen short of the promise to deliver great adventure and keenly executed plotlines. This has been displayed best during his latest additions to the Civil War saga. Major disappointment. Even some hardcore Hudlin supporters from other sites have agreed on this point.

To add to Thatguy's argument, it's already been documented by Priest himself, via his past blogs and commentaries, that most of Hudlin's major ideas/plotlines to date were either:

1) already pitched/presented to Marvel years ago by Priest, and/or
2) have already been written in some form or fashion by Priest himself.

Marvel's decision to include BP in so many MAJOR crossover issues and better market the book than in previous BP volumes is the only factor that has added to BP's elevated status in the MU.

Just to clarify myself, I ain't a Hudlin hater, But I do dislike most of his work on BP to date, as well as some of his online actions. And I am soooo glad that McDuffie is off to a great start on his stint as writer of FF (and consequently Black Panther!) And I'm glad he's taking Storm out of "Halle_Berry_mode" and putting her back into "Angela_Bassett_mode".


You can discredit Hudlin if you want to... doesn't make a difference. The point is that since he's taken over the title, the character and the book have done better. You can give the credit to Hudlin or cross overs or to Santa Claus or to sunspots, whatever... the point is that the character expsure and status has grown significantlhy since Priest's run. And that's a good thing.

[Ty19]

First of all, wassup.

You can discredit Hudlin if you want to... doesn't make a difference.

Second, I'm not trying to discredit Hudlin (The Comic Writer) at all. He's doing a fine job of that all by himself.

The point is that since he's taken over the title,...the character expsure and status has grown significantlhy since Priest's run.

True.

And that's a good thing.

Now, that depends on your POV. Would you rather have fewer people see you when you are critically and consistently regarded as a "Diamond", or would you rather have more people see you when the majority consistently view you as a "Lump of Coal"???

But that's a moot point now since BP now has a chance to become a Diamond again...even thought it might not be in his own book.

[Pyro]

Was anyone else bothered by the discrepancies between Black Panther 26 and Fantastic Four 544 in the scenes where BP and Storm join the team? I hate when little things like that can't be coordinated well. Though, it's pretty much a lose/lose situation either way. We get the same scene repeated, or we get conflicting versions of the same scene. Maybe they should have just left it out of one or the other.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

over at the beat (http://http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/03/29/marvel-month-to-month-sales-february-2007/)you can get a feel for what is working marketing wise for marvel's year two books (black panther) and how well the book has been doing.


just a litle more info for the naysayers who think BP can't hold his own in this market.

32. BLACK PANTHER
02/02 #41 - 19,523
02/03 #54 - 17,401
02/05 #1 - 50,490
=====
02/06 #13 - 26,054 ( -6.7%)
03/06 #14 - 28,809 ( +10.6%)
04/06 #15 - 28,361 ( -1.6%)
05/06 #16 - 28,091 ( -1.0%)
06/06 #17 - 27,993 ( -0.3%)
07/06 #18 - 69,912 (+149.7%)
08/06 #19 - 28,372 ( -59.4%)
09/06 #20 - 26,585 ( -6.3%)
10/06 #21 - 34,257 ( +28.9%)
11/06 #22 - 47,556 ( +38.8%)
12/06 #23 - 54,762 ( +15.2%)
01/07 #24 - 59,971 ( +9.5%)
02/07 #25 - 56,479 ( -5.8%)
6 mnth ( +99.1%)
1 year (+116.8%)
2 year ( +11.9%)

Lets examine your numbers shall we. Ok......70,000 ( rounded it off ) for 18# is good. But what happened within 3 months ? Uh oh DANGER DANGER DANGER...Book falling fast ! Must program Cross-Over. It dropped down to 26,000 ! Thats 2,000 less before the Wedding of the Century.

Then comes Civil War where as my LCS person told me " Marvel never advertised #21 as part of Civil War. It was supposed to be #23. But they bumped it up 2 issues earlier for some reason and made #21 part of CW and we had to re-order it for those fans who want all the tie-ins."

So from 21 to 25 you have CW. Will Panther manage to hold any of these fans ? Hudlin couldn't do it with this big Hyped Wedding. Where Marvel put so much into. They at least wanted some X-Fans to come onto BP. Instead they just ignored the series.

This is the concluding part of a CIVIL WAR crossover arc, and as you’d expect, the sales have been boosted accordingly. Issue #24 picks up reorders of 2,262. After this, the Black Panther and Storm join the cast of FANTASTIC FOUR for a while, which should keep up the audience attention. BLACK PANTHER is clearly a high priority for Marvel, but the lingering question is whether the constant string of events is helping it to develop a bigger core following.

Pray it does. If you want BP to last hope the FF fans swing over and pick up the solo book. Because as we saw....if CW didn't happen the book would have dropped down below 26,000 .

[XPac]

Was anyone else bothered by the discrepancies between Black Panther 26 and Fantastic Four 544 in the scenes where BP and Storm join the team? I hate when little things like that can't be coordinated well. Though, it's pretty much a lose/lose situation either way. We get the same scene repeated, or we get conflicting versions of the same scene. Maybe they should have just left it out of one or the other.

That's what I actually liked about JMS writing both Fantastic Four and Spiderman during the Civil War tie ins. When the books intersected, it obviously did so perfectly. Some complained that we got the same scene twice... but I acutally found that kind of neat.

I do hope the books do a better job of coordinating though. Hudlin said they were working together to coordinate this stuff, but it's not starting off with a bang in that regard.

[kitamu re]

Your post seems a little bit misleading.

I didn't mislead anyone, I simply stated the fact that BP is not going to get cancelled anytime soon.

First you state that BP can hold its "OWN" in this market. Then to prove your point you present percentages and sales comparisons that show sales increases when BP isn't standing on its "OWN", but as part of a major crossover event.

does it bother you that BP is doing so well as a major player in the Marvel U. Are you saying that a character with BP's strengths shouldn't be spotlighted. Black panther is standing on its own if you look at the numbers from issue 21-25 the book has been gaining numbers. Do you consider that a bad thing:rolleyes:


If you ONLY look at BP's sales when it truly is standing on it's "OWN" (i.e._no_crossover), then the numbers clearly show that sales are on a very steady decline.

Once again when you read a bp book the spotlight is on him and now his wife if iron man shows up for one page do you consider that not standing on its own. BP is a part of the larger 616 therefore hudlin is doing the right thing by re-incorporating BP into the major storylines. You have to remember that before priests run BP did not have his own title. Marvel is being smart by allowing reg to push BP into all the major crossovers. I like it and the sales show others like it as well.:eek:


Maybe after this Civil War thing, BP might hold a few more readers than it did since issue #20, when it was truly on its "OWN".

THe book is on it's own. And I hope reg keeps thinking of new inventive ways to get BP exposure into the large 616 verse. Sorry the days of kasper, ross and queen divine justice running wreck in a BP title are history. :D

Edit:
Then again, BP is still in the middle of another crossover event...with the Fantastic Four.

"How many licks does it take to get to the center of BP's true standalone sales...The world may never know."


get used to it...up next for this summer is the zombiverse, and world war hulk. What you fail to realize is that with each crossover event Reg is able to draw in new readers who might not have thought of picking up a BP book. BP has been traditionally been written down so Reg has his hands full bringing BP up to the level of a cap or iron man. And based on the sales push all three received during Civil war it is working.

[kitamu re]

Now, that depends on your POV. Would you rather have fewer people see you when you are critically and consistently regarded as a "Diamond", or would you rather have more people see you when the majority consistently view you as a "Lump of Coal"???

But that's a moot point now since BP now has a chance to become a Diamond again...even thought it might not be in his own book.

publishing comics is a business:rolleyes: If you are smart enough to get your book to sell then guess what that means:eek:

[Pyro]

That's what I actually liked about JMS writing both Fantastic Four and Spiderman during the Civil War tie ins. When the books intersected, it obviously did so perfectly. Some complained that we got the same scene twice... but I acutally found that kind of neat.

I do hope the books do a better job of coordinating though. Hudlin said they were working together to coordinate this stuff, but it's not starting off with a bang in that regard.I actually liked JMS's coordination between both those books too. I would say he did it the best way possible by showing the same scene but from different perspectives. There were a few things I didn't like about JMS's work-- mostly his portrayal of the pro-reg side... but anyway, It didn't work well between BP and FF. I tend to lean on the FF's side of having the better scene.

[kitamu re]

Pray it does. If you want BP to last hope the FF fans swing over and pick up the solo book. Because as we saw....if CW didn't happen the book would have dropped down below 26,000 .

do you purchase the book every month:cool:

[mattx110]

hm
books doing better than i thought i t would be.

and BP is about a guy who is a part of an international community and has relationships with all the avengers.
when he's a part of his own world, he has his own readers, but the way the book is now, i don't see a problem with guest stars and him reacting to events.
it's a book about politics and superheroes, and it's hard to do that while ignoring the rest of the marvel universe.

it might not be a "pure" black panther book, but i think it is stories that should be told.
plus, by most accounts, hudlin is getting better at writing the title. i've heard more "what the hell, i wasn't gonna pick this up, but it was good..." comments about BP than any other book.
well, BP and cap 25... but that was for different reasons.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I
Once again when you read a bp book the spotlight is on him and now his wife if iron man shows up for one page do you consider that not standing on its own. BP is a part of the larger 616 therefore hudlin is doing the right thing by re-incorporating BP into the major storylines. You have to remember that before priests run BP did not have his own title. Marvel is being smart by allowing reg to push BP into all the major crossovers. I like it and the sales show others like it as well.:eek:

Yeah but will it attract fans long term ? You just can't keep praying that a huge company wide cross-over happens to pump readers or fans who want tie-in issues. If thats the case your gonna have a Firestorm situation with Jason Rusch. DC programmed Omac Project , Days of Vengence Infinite Crisis and OYL event tie-ins to pump sales on Firestorm. Didn't work as no fans stayed around. The series limped 14 more issues and is due to be canceled at #35 sad to say.

The lesson here...Events dry up. But if your series truelly gets blessed look at Cable & Deadpool. After CW , the series actually gained 5,000 readers from before they had the CW Tie-ins. Thats a pretty awesome spot for a series that could have ended as Fabian last said it was safe til #39 but after its performance has been saved awhile longer.

THe book is on it's own. And I hope reg keeps thinking of new inventive ways to get BP exposure into the large 616 verse. Sorry the days of kasper, ross and queen divine justice running wreck in a BP title are history. :D

The book should stand on its own and develope its own sub-plots. If I'm reading Immortal Iron Fist I don't wanna see the entire 616 Universe . I want to see Danny Rand and his supporting cast get play in said series. Thats just the truth.


get used to it...up next for this summer is the zombiverse, and world war hulk. What you fail to realize is that with each crossover event Reg is able to draw in new readers who might not have thought of picking up a BP book. BP has been traditionally been written down so Reg has his hands full bringing BP up to the level of a cap or iron man. And based on the sales push all three received during Civil war it is working.

How do you know its working as you say ? You'll know its working when the next issue following an event actually has an increase in readership. If #26 or #27 comes in above 26,000 then....thats working. If its at the same level...thats a failure.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

do you purchase the book every month:cool:

I'm getting Fantastic Four #544 (I had it added to my pull list last week ) . I'd rather see Panther and Storm written by McDuffie. I trust him more as a writer since he's handled comic characters and all.

[kitamu re]

The book should stand on its own and develope its own sub-plots

If you read BP then you would know there are 4 central subplots brewing right now..more then any other marvel title:

1, Who is the cannibal- a being that can take over another poerson's body and has it's sights set on taking over the most advanced nation in the 616 Wakanda namely by possessing the body of T'Challa. Brother voodo has been recruited to track down the cannibal, all you mystic fans should be happy.

2. Turmoil in the court over BP and Storm's adventures in the US. The council is in an uproar over the absence of the king and queen while the US is practicing war games off the coast of wakanda.

3. The US governments plans to neutralize wakanda (for all you ross fans I have a feeling he will play a significant role in this arc)

4. The black panthers sister about to get involved in a big way with countering the official US invasion of Wakanda.

these are very important sub-plots that are being developed around the larger story of bp's and storm's adventures. so the argument of bP not standing on its own is coming primarily from people who aren't reading the book.;)

[SUPERECWFAN1]

If you read BP then you would know there are 4 central subplots brewing right now..more then any other marvel title:

1, Who is the cannibal- a being that can take over another poerson's body and has it's sights set on taking over the most advanced nation in the 616 Wakanda namely by possessing the body of T'Challa. Brother voodo has been recruited to track down the cannibal, all you mystic fans should be happy.

2. Turmoil in the court over BP and Storm's adventures in the US. The council is in an uproar over the absence of the king and queen while the US is practicing war games off the coast of wakanda.

3. The US governments plans to neutralize wakanda (for all you ross fans I have a feeling he will play a significant role in this arc)

4. The black panthers sister about to get involved in a big way with countering the official US invasion of Wakanda.

these are very important sub-plots that are being developed around the larger story of bp's and storm's adventures. so the argument of bP not standing on its own is coming primarily from people who aren't reading the book.;)

Then with all this ongoing why do you not want the series to deal with it ? To do tie-in issues on huge Events ? If I was reading this book I'd want these plots taken care of sometime.

[kitamu re]

Then with all this ongoing why do you not want the series to deal with it ? To do tie-in issues on huge Events ? If I was reading this book I'd want these plots taken care of sometime.

I know the pay-off at the end is going to be crazy:D Most comics now are boring to me that's why I dropped my list down to 2 books BP and FF, after watching JL, and JLU I knew dewayne could deliver the goods and FF#544 did not disappoint. BP is giving me what I want high adventure and also political intrigue It's like watching 24, reg is delivering and I want the plot lines to drag on longer since I can feel the story building to a crescendo.

[Ty19]

I swear, after reading your last few posts, you're beginning to sound a lot like.....never mind.

I didn't mislead anyone, I simply stated the fact that BP is not going to get cancelled anytime soon.

Uhh, OK.

does it bother you that BP is doing so well as a major player in the Marvel U. Are you saying that a character with BP's strengths shouldn't be spotlighted. Black panther is standing on its own if you look at the numbers from issue 21-25 the book has been gaining numbers. Do you consider that a bad thing

I am merely looking at BP's sales history. And the books own sales data concludes that BP does not stand well on it's own, only as a part of a major crossover event. Then it's back to pre-crossover sales figures.

Panther is my fav character. I don't hope the book gets cancelled. I hope the book gets better stories...and for the time being, I KNOW I'll at least get good Panther stories from FF.

And no matter what you say, any real comic fan knows that if you slap a major crossover logo on the cover of a book for a few months, the book is no longer on its "OWN". It is part of a bigger storyline and there will almost always be a bump in sales.


Once again when you read a bp book the spotlight is on him and now his wife if iron man shows up for one page do you consider that not standing on its own. BP is a part of the larger 616 therefore hudlin is doing the right thing by re-incorporating BP into the major storylines. You have to remember that before priests run BP did not have his own title. Marvel is being smart by allowing reg to push BP into all the major crossovers. I like it and the sales show others like it as well.

Again, additional readers are buying the book because of the crossover logo.

And I am soooo glad that Marvel hired Hudlin. Before Hudlin, Marvel probably never new the benefit of crossover sales. I'm so glad they are ALLOWING him to run their editorial staff as well. BP's history has never been clearer.:rolleyes:


THe book is on it's own. And I hope reg keeps thinking of new inventive ways to get BP exposure into the large 616 verse. Sorry the days of kasper, ross and queen divine justice running wreck in a BP title are history.

Before Jehovah/Jehudlin arrived, I'm sure no one, including Priest (even though his blogs say otherwise) never thought of or pushed for more inventive ways to incorporate BP better into the mainstream Marvel U.

And again we have underlying shots at Priest. Why am I experiencing Deja Vu????:confused:


get used to it...up next for this summer is the zombiverse, and world war hulk. What you fail to realize is that with each crossover event Reg is able to draw in new readers who might not have thought of picking up a BP book.

And what you fail to realize is that even after all these new readers came and tried out the book, when the crossover event ended, all of those new readers left...and they even kidnapped some of the old readers as well.:eek:

BP has been traditionally been written down so Reg has his hands full bringing BP up to the level of a cap or iron man. And based on the sales push all three received during Civil war it is working.

Again anotha Priest shot. I doubt there is ANYONE who read BP during Priest's run (other than you) who would honestly say that BP was never regarded as being on the same level as Cap or Iron Man.

In short, "Anything Priest can do, I can do better....":D

And as far as whether this latest Civil War crossover worked or not, the jury is still out. Let's get a true standalone arc to judge from and then we'll see if we have more or less readers than from issue #20.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I know the pay-off at the end is going to be crazy:D Most comics now are boring to me that's why I dropped my list down to 2 books BP and FF, after watching JL, and JLU I knew dewayne could deliver the goods and FF#544 did not disappoint. BP is giving me what I want high adventure and also political intrigue It's like watching 24, reg is delivering and I want the plot lines to drag on longer since I can feel the story building to a crescendo.

Its a shame you don't read Geoff Johns work on Justice Society or New X-Men as those 2 titles pretty much prove....they aren't boring.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I gotta say that when Johns wrote Panther he did a very good job in Avengers. I enjoyed reading him in those story-arcs he was in .

[kitamu re]

I gotta say that when Johns wrote Panther he did a very good job in Avengers. I enjoyed reading him in those story-arcs he was in .


ok I am supposed to believe you love panther so much you haven't picked up his book in what 20 issues:rolleyes: if 2 pac were alive you would be his bodyguard:eek:

[The Cool Thatguy]

Then with all this ongoing why do you not want the series to deal with it ? To do tie-in issues on huge Events ? If I was reading this book I'd want these plots taken care of sometime.

Cannibal's been running around in Wakanda since issue 6, just FYI. Panther's never met the guy, and only learned of his existance in issue 18, when Dr. Strange sensed a body snatcher.

So yeah, don't expect a resolution to any of the plots kitamu re brought up. Foreshadowing, building tension and momentium, these basic things of story telling aren't Hudlin's strong suits.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Again anotha Priest shot. I doubt there is ANYONE who read BP during Priest's run (other than you) who would honestly say that BP was never regarded as being on the same level as Cap or Iron Man.

In short, "Anything Priest can do, I can do better...."

And as far as whether this latest Civil War crossover worked or not, the jury is still out. Let's get a true standalone arc to judge from and then we'll see if we have more or less readers than from issue #20.

Priest wrote a Panther that outwitted the CIA, Russian Mob and Mephisto himself at the same time. His Panther juggled a potential world war, Magneto, Dr. Doom, the Deviants and Namor at the same time, and still beating a giant sized Klaw who had been working behind the scenes to make matters worse. Finally, Priest wrote a Panther who, even wracked with incredable pain and dying, managed to fight Iron Man to a standstill, turning many of Stark's specially made anti-Panther weapons against him.

It's worth noting that when faced with trouble, Priest's Panther rarely pulled out a bigger gun and started waving it around.

Hudlin's Panther, despite having his superpower nation behind him, had trouble with the likes of Batroc, Rhino and Klaw. A forgein army was able to amass at his borders without his knowledge, and another one marched on his capital. A cyborg Klaw was enough to wound and nearly kill Panther, whereas Priest's Panther owned a Klaw who was eighty stories tall.

When faced with vampires, the MU's third most common cannon fodder (behind Hydra and the Hand), Hudlin's Panther had to rely on the ebony blade he stole from Black Knight, and he fell back on using it against Iron Man too, Name me another hero who relies on another character's trademark weapon, eh? Panther is supposed to be a foremost hero, he ought to (and is more than able) stand on his own merits.

People wanna say Hudlin's Panther is stronger and better than Priest's? Fine. That's their right.

I simply say, prove it.

[xmanson]

Priest wrote a Panther that outwitted the CIA, Russian Mob and Mephisto himself at the same time. His Panther juggled a potential world war, Magneto, Dr. Doom, the Deviants and Namor at the same time, and still beating a giant sized Klaw who had been working behind the scenes to make matters worse. Finally, Priest wrote a Panther who, even wracked with incredable pain and dying, managed to fight Iron Man to a standstill, turning many of Stark's specially made anti-Panther weapons against him.

It's worth noting that when faced with trouble, Priest's Panther rarely pulled out a bigger gun and started waving it around.

Hudlin's Panther, beating having his superpower nation behind him, had trouble with the likes of Batroc, Rhino and Klaw. A forgein army was able to amass at his borders without his knowledge, and another one marched on his capital. A cyborg Klaw was enough to wound and nearly kill Panther, whereas Priest's Panther owned a Klaw who was eighty stories tall.

When faced with vampires, the MU's third most common cannon fodder (behind Hydra and the Hand), Hudlin's Panther had to rely on the ebony blade he stole from Black Knight, and he fell back on using it against Iron Man too, Name me another hero who relies on another character's trademark weapon, eh? Panther is supposed to be a foremost hero, he ought to (and is more than able) stand on his own merits.

People wanna say Hudlin's Panther is stronger and better than Priest's? Fine. That's their right.

I simply say, prove it.


I love you.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

ok I am supposed to believe you love panther so much you haven't picked up his book in what 20 issues:rolleyes:


The same reason I didn't pick up The Thing's solo title while I had FF on my pull list under Waid. It didn't interest me as a solo title. Thats the facts. Or why I didn't pick up Hawkeye as a solo series while I pulled The Avengers.

Panther to me works best as a team character. I said that as my 1st post. Some characters like Hawkman and others work best as in teams and can't be solo heroes. I even enjoyed Hawkman's solo title before it became Hawkgirl. But Hawkman's had how many attempts the last 20+ years ?

if 2 pac were alive you would be his bodyguard:eek:

Now this has gotta be the most retarded statement here. I wanna match it...if Elvis was alive you'd claim he stole the music.

[Yaw]

Panther to me works best as a team character. I said that as my 1st post. Some characters like Hawkman and others work best as in teams and can't be solo heroes. I even enjoyed Hawkman's solo title before it became Hawkgirl. But Hawkman's had how many attempts the last 20+ years ?


Why do you feel this way? A king of the only (fictional) African nation to never be colonized works better on a team?:confused: :confused:

Personally I think Priest's insinuation that T'Challa joined the team spy on them was done so to explain an otherwise ludicrous and offensive assertion. The Avengers were an American team (until they became U.N. certified) that focused on threats that were usually directed towards America. This was not dislike the idea that an African prince would give up ruling his country to be a sidekick to a second-rate magician (see Lothar). T'Challa on Fantastic Four is acceptable because it has been explained and most of all it is temporary.

[XPac]

Why do you feel this way? A king of the only (fictional) African nation to never be colonized works better on a team?:confused: :confused:

Personally I think Priest's insinuation that T'Challa joined the team spy on them was done so to explain an otherwise ludicrous and offensive assertion. The Avengers were an American team (until they became U.N. certified) that focused on threats that were usually directed towards America. This was not dislike the idea that an African prince would give up ruling his country to be a sidekick to a second-rate magician (see Lothar). T'Challa on Fantastic Four is acceptable because it has been explained and most of all it is temporary.

Honestly, I didn't buy Panther being an Avenger then (once I found out he was an African King), and I don't buy it now. Ships are off the coast of his country... now is not the time to play superhero and rocket off into space to fight zombies.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Why do you feel this way? A king of the only (fictional) African nation to never be colonized works better on a team?:confused: :confused:

Personally I think Priest's insinuation that T'Challa joined the team spy on them was done so to explain an otherwise ludicrous and offensive assertion. The Avengers were an American team (until they became U.N. certified) that focused on threats that were usually directed towards America. This was not dislike the idea that an African prince would give up ruling his country to be a sidekick to a second-rate magician (see Lothar). T'Challa on Fantastic Four is acceptable because it has been explained and most of all it is temporary.

Just to clarify, Panther didn't join to spy so much as he joined to evaluate them.

As for liking Panther better in a group, well, some characters do work better on a team with more foils. I don't think Panther is one (though like everyone, he needs foils), but to each their own.

[Yaw]

Just to clarify, Panther didn't join to spy so much as he joined to evaluate them.


Spying is secretly observing. Evaluating is determining the one's value or capabilities. Both are applicable, no clarification needed.;)

Stay cool.:cool:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Why do you feel this way? A king of the only (fictional) African nation to never be colonized works better on a team?:confused: :confused:

Same way an Egyptian prince who has been reincarnated for centuries works best as a team character. How many series has each character had and how many times have they watched it get cancelled ?


Personally I think Priest's insinuation that T'Challa joined the team spy on them was done so to explain an otherwise ludicrous and offensive assertion. The Avengers were an American team (until they became U.N. certified) that focused on threats that were usually directed towards America. This was not dislike the idea that an African prince would give up ruling his country to be a sidekick to a second-rate magician (see Lothar). T'Challa on Fantastic Four is acceptable because it has been explained and most of all it is temporary.

Different strokes for different folks. Even if he was there he had a very good role. He got to play off Iron Man and be the outside character. He worked best in a team. I can see why he's back in FF now. They need him to work and lure fans to the solo series. But for now he's a member of a team and it should do good.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Honestly, I didn't buy Panther being an Avenger then (once I found out he was an African King), and I don't buy it now. Ships are off the coast of his country... now is not the time to play superhero and rocket off into space to fight zombies.

Characters can be on teams and be solo heroes. Wolverine is in how many books and how many teams ? Just because Character A is having an adventure where he's fighting ships off the coast of his country doesn't mean he can't be fighting Zombies in space with the Avengers in a team book.

[Yaw]

Same way an Egyptian prince who has been reincarnated for centuries works best as a team character. How many series has each character had and how many times have they watched it get cancelled ?



The difference: The Egyptian prince does not have a nation to run.

Imagine George Bush on a Wakandan based superhero team. Make sense?:eek:

[EnDwiGast]

How do you know its working as you say ? You'll know its working when the next issue following an event actually has an increase in readership. If #26 or #27 comes in above 26,000 then....thats working. If its at the same level...thats a failure.

An excellent point, and one i'm curious about myself. I think its great for Hudlin to capitalize on these events to introduce other readers to Black Panther.

What happens when there is no tie in event? How do sales do then? Thats when you will get a true gauge of how Black Panther is doing (versus civil war/Marvel Zombies/World war hulk/Initiative/Extinction/etc.)

But for now its great to see him in the thick of things in the Marvel U and I hope the book becomes one of marvel's flagship titles.

[XPac]

Characters can be on teams and be solo heroes. Wolverine is in how many books and how many teams ? Just because Character A is having an adventure where he's fighting ships off the coast of his country doesn't mean he can't be fighting Zombies in space with the Avengers in a team book.

I have no problem with a solo character also being on a team book.

I simply think a King of a nation should in theory have other obligations aside from battling zombies in space. Especailly when there are warships parked on the coast of your country.

He's a king so in theory he can do whatever the hell he wants... but I honestly think that he should have other obligations besides battling space zombies.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

The difference: The Egyptian prince does not have a nation to run.

No he runs a Musuem and works as an outer space officer as well. Whats the differance ? Its a fantasy. Even if Panther's running a country he's dressing up as super hero and doing work on the Avengers and FF. He maybe even in the X-Men this fall. I wonder if he cleared it with the United Nations that he's there ?

Imagine George Bush on a Wakandan based superhero team. Make sense?:eek:

No because this isn't George Bush , Wakanda isn't real and neithor is Panther. There is no excuse. He can be anywhere in the Marvel Universe if a writer and all want it to happen. Hence his Fantastic Four duties now.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

An excellent point, and one i'm curious about myself. I think its great for Hudlin to capitalize on these events to introduce other readers to Black Panther.

What happens when there is no tie in event? How do sales do then? Thats when you will get a true gauge of how Black Panther is doing (versus civil war/Marvel Zombies/World war hulk/Initiative/Extinction/etc.)

But for now its great to see him in the thick of things in the Marvel U and I hope the book becomes one of marvel's flagship titles.

I will pull for it. I don't have nothing against the title. I'd love to see it gain some readers like Cable & Deadpool managed to do to aviod the cancellation line.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I have no problem with a solo character also being on a team book.

I simply think a King of a nation should in theory have other obligations aside from battling zombies in space. Especailly when there are warships parked on the coast of your country.

He's a king so in theory he can do whatever the hell he wants... but I honestly think that he should have other obligations besides battling space zombies.

He maybe a King but he's a comic character. So he's whatever the writers believe and want to think . Do I like seeing Wolverine spread around to 20 books a month ? No way.....I think he's gotta have clones to do all that. But if their using Panther in Avengers & FF thats only good for him. It increases his viewership to other fans who may try the solo title.

[kitamu re]

I have no problem with a solo character also being on a team book.

I simply think a King of a nation should in theory have other obligations aside from battling zombies in space. Especailly when there are warships parked on the coast of your country.

He's a king so in theory he can do whatever the hell he wants... but I honestly think that he should have other obligations besides battling space zombies.

and what happens if the zombies make it to this universe with the power of galactus. I would rather see panther be premptive and deal with the zombies before they get to earth;)

[XPac]

He maybe a King but he's a comic character. So he's whatever the writers believe and want to think . Do I like seeing Wolverine spread around to 20 books a month ? No way.....I think he's gotta have clones to do all that. But if their using Panther in Avengers & FF thats only good for him. It increases his viewership to other fans who may try the solo title.

I don't disagree that he's a comic book character that does whatever the writers want (that sort of goes without saying). I'm merely saying he comes off looking like an irresponsible king because of him ignoring his people in the time of obvius crisis especially since it's a sitution HE created.

He commits an attack against the US, then takes off while the US military are parked on the borders of his country. To me, it makes him look bad. If you feel otherwise, we can agree to disagree.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I don't disagree that he's a comic book character that does whatever the writers want (that sort of goes without saying). I'm merely saying he comes off looking like an irresponsible king because of him ignoring his people in the time of obvius crisis especially since it's a sitution HE created.

He commits an attack against the US, then takes off while the US military are parked on the borders of his country. To me, it makes him look bad. If you feel otherwise, we can agree to disagree.

Its kinda like Aquaman and him being King of Atlantis...how many freakin times did he leave when they were at War ? ;)

[XPac]

Its kinda like Aquaman and him being King of Atlantis...how many freakin times did he leave when they were at War ? ;)

I don't think making comparissons with Aquaman helps Panther's image too much.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I don't think making comparissons with Aquaman helps Panther's image too much.

So Aquman had a nervous breakdown and went batsh-t insane at one point. He was a KING darn it. I loved when he had the hook and went off the deep end and wouldn't take shit off anyone. :p

[Yaw]

No he runs a Musuem and works as an outer space officer as well. Whats the differance ? Its a fantasy.


Ok so who are you talking about?

No because this isn't George Bush , Wakanda isn't real and neithor is Panther. There is no excuse. He can be anywhere in the Marvel Universe if a writer and all want it to happen. Hence his Fantastic Four duties now.

No this still holds as Bush or at least the President of the US exists in the comics. So if Dubya is too real for you then the 616 American President on a superhero team in another country. The current storyline explains it and it is incumbent on the fact that his subject want him back in the country. Either way the Black Panther of Priest and Hudlin does flies better solo. Actually Hudlin's Panther is a little bit more malleable for a team environment.

[Ty19]

Either way the Black Panther of Priest and Hudlin does flies better solo. Actually Hudlin's Panther is a little bit more malleable for a team environment.

When Panther is in a team environment (FF or Avengers), I would like to see BP written with the same intent that Thor was written. Thor still led Asgard, but fit in nicely with the Avengers (mind you I haven't read thor regularly for years but from what I remember in the 80's and early 90's, I sorta liked.)

If BP is treated with the same level of respect (and not Hudlinesque worship) that Thor was by his teammates, then BP popping in every 2 years or so for a nice long 6-9 issue arc seems believable. McDuffie is off to a decent start, so I have high hopes.

[Ty19]

Double post. Sorry:o

[SUPERECWFAN1]

When Panther is in a team environment (FF or Avengers), I would like to see BP written with the same intent that Thor was written. Thor still led Asgard, but fit in nicely with the Avengers (mind you I haven't read thor regularly for years but from what I remember in the 80's and early 90's, I sorta liked.)

If BP is treated with the same level of respect (and not Hudlinesque worship) that Thor was by his teammates, then BP popping in every 2 years or so for a nice long 6-9 issue arc seems believable. McDuffie is off to a decent start, so I have high hopes.

Exacto.....if the writers treat BP with respect and make the stories good it won't matter . I'd love to see more character driven stuff with Panther & Storm. Like have them all playing football or softball ala the X-Men. Panther would be fun to watch as he's new to the game. Stuff thats more of...he's a normal guy who joined the FF with his new wife as a favor.

In 52* they have Black Adam as King of his own country and he's written as a pretty strong character . He's been in JSA and Villains United as well.

[Lanowar]

Exacto.....if the writers treat BP with respect and make the stories good it won't matter . I'd love to see more character driven stuff with Panther & Storm. Like have them all playing football or softball ala the X-Men. Panther would be fun to watch as he's new to the game. Stuff thats more of...he's a normal guy who joined the FF with his new wife as a favor.

In 52* they have Black Adam as King of his own country and he's written as a pretty strong character . He's been in JSA and Villains United as well.

Black Panther playing softball? Mostly likely kick everyone's ass when he loses to prove he's still bad-ass and with it.

[Magneto_X]

In 52* they have Black Adam as King of his own country and he's written as a pretty strong character . He's been in JSA and Villains United as well.

Panther *wishes* he was treated as well as Black Adam the last few years.

Thanks to Hudlin T'Challa is joke.

Hopefully when Hudlin (eventually) leaves BP they'll give the title to someone with actual writing skill like McDuffie. Or Busiek (his Panther rocked in Avengers).

[kitamu re]

Panther *wishes* he was treated as well as Black Adam the last few years.

Thanks to Hudlin T'Challa is joke.

and yet in all you infinite wisdom..you realize black adam could not carry his own series:rolleyes: T'challa is such a joke he is appearing in two of marvel's flagship titles this month:

1. fantastic four #544
2. Wolverine #52

hudlin is such a joke he has Black panther selling more then superman:cool:

[SUPERECWFAN1]

and yet in all you infinite wisdom..you realize black adam could not carry his own series:rolleyes: T'challa is such a joke he is appearing in two of marvel's flagship titles this month:

1. fantastic four #544
2. Wolverine #52

hudlin is such a joke he has Black panther selling more then superman:cool:

Black Adam is a Marvel Family character. He stars with them and has pretty much carried a lot of 52* with his story. In fact I'd say half of 52* has featured Adam as the star. His book sales thus far ? Over 100,000 an issue. So Adam can show up in 26 of the even 52 and outsell Panther 2-1 at times.

Now Adam won't ever have a solo title but see how good writers like Morrison , Waid and Johns can move a character from point A to point B in this tale ? They took someone who I never really felt sorry for after week #44 your heart broke for Adam as he lost it all. His anger...his fury at losing his beloved Queen. The twists and turns ect ect.

Now onto the Superman line. Of course a mega-event crossover can outsell some titles. But lets put Panther at his usual 28,000 where he was months ago before all the Event driven sales stunts started. Most of the Superman Titles outsell that without even me having to compile a list.

But lets do the 56,000 mark this month. Since thats your point. Courtesy of ICV2 heres the numbers.

23
77.62
ACTION COMICS #846
$2.99
DC
64,554

24
77.39
ULTIMATE X-MEN #79
$2.99
MAR
64,363

25
75.5
THUNDERBOLTS #111*
$2.99
MAR
62,791

26
75.48
ACTION COMICS ANNUAL #10*
$3.99
DC
62,774

27
74.57
GREEN LANTERN #17
$2.99
DC
62,018

28
72.94
IRON MAN #15
$2.99
MAR
60,662

29
71.45
SENSATIONAL SPIDER-MAN #35
$2.99
MAR
59,423

30
70.58
ETERNALS #7 (Of 7)*
$3.99
MAR
58,699

31
70.05
SUPERMAN #659
$2.99
DC
58,258

32
67.91
BLACK PANTHER #25
$2.99
MAR
56,479

In the Battle of Man of Steel vs King of Wakanda ...not even the big mega event beats SUPERMAN ! His 2 titles and the freakin Annual even beats Panther this month .