France opens secret UFO files

[Charles RB]

I don't care if they all turn out to be weather balloons really, this is just too damn cool: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070322/wl_afp/sciencespaceufo;_ylt=AiwE2j95rYCtEeGaITdxWr.ROrgF)

France became the first country to open its files on UFOs Thursday when the national space agency unveiled a website documenting more than 1,600 sightings spanning five decades.

The online archives, which will be updated as new cases are reported, catalogues in minute detail cases ranging from the easily dismissed to a handful that continue to perplex even hard-nosed scientists.

"It is a world first," said Jacques Patenet, the aeronautical engineer who heads the office for the study of "non-identified aerospatial phenomena."

Known as OVNIs in French, UFOs have always generated intense interest along with countless conspiracy theories about secretive government cover-ups of findings deemed too sensitive or alarming for public consumption.

"Cases such as the lady who reported seeing an object that looked like a flying roll of toilet paper" are clearly not worth investigating, said Patenet.

But many others involving multiple sightings -- in at least one case involving thousands of people across France -- and evidence such as burn marks and radar trackings showing flight patterns or accelerations that defy the laws of physics are taken very seriously...

Of the 1,600 cases registered since 1954, nearly 25 percent are classified as "type D", meaning that "despite good or very good data and credible witnesses, we are confronted with something we can't explain," Patenet said.

Nearly twenty-five percent can't be explained? That's a higher figure than I'd have expected...

I wonder why France is doing this? I wouldn't have thought there'd be much of a potential vote in this.

[Motormouse]

Nothing to see here!

http://world.std.com/~mica/mib.jpg


But seriously, this sounds really cool, can't wait to check the sight out.:cool:

[Sir Tim Drake]

"Cases such as the lady who reported seeing an object that looked like a flying roll of toilet paper" are clearly not worth investigating, said Patenet.

I wonder if the roll was hung overhand or underhand.

[BlairH]

I am an absolute sucker for alien conspiracy stuff. Good find!

Of the 1,600 cases registered since 1954, nearly 25 percent are classified as "type D"

Yeah the 25% figure does seem a little high. I wonder if this is weighed more towards the 1954 end of the spectrum, where it might have been difficult to determine whether UFO events were atmospheric, physical, or a simple hoax?

[Hoss]

In the US, we call them Unidentified Freedom Objects.

[BlairH]

In the US, we call them Unidentified Freedom Objects.

Except (or perhaps especially?) when they beam up terrorist suspects and take them to foreign planets in impromtu rendition flights.

[Charles RB]

Yeah the 25% figure does seem a little high.

France is near to Britain, it probably picked up all the Auton, Axonite, Cyberman, Zygon et al spacecraft that broke our airspace way back when.

[The Mirrorball Man]

France is near to Britain, it probably picked up all the Auton, Axonite, Cyberman, Zygon et al spacecraft that broke our airspace way back when.

It's a fact that all Jagoroth live in Paris.

[Mike Smash!]

I don't care if they all turn out to be weather balloons really, this is just too damn cool: (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070322/wl_afp/sciencespaceufo;_ylt=AiwE2j95rYCtEeGaITdxWr.ROrgF)



Nearly twenty-five percent can't be explained? That's a higher figure than I'd have expected...

I wonder why France is doing this? I wouldn't have thought there'd be much of a potential vote in this.

Not being able to explain it doesn't mean that it's aliens, however. Just that it can't be explained. Yet.

[Chris Nowlin]

Not being able to explain it doesn't mean that it's aliens, however. Just that it can't be explained. Yet.

I think that's the meaning of "unexplained". We take it to mean "not yet explained".

[Mike Smash!]

I think that's the meaning of "unexplained". We take it to mean "not yet explained".

I just want to be sure we don't fall into the "if you can't explain it, it must prove that (_insert phenomenon here_) is true" trap.

Until there's evidence of alien space ships flying around, it's irrational to believe in them by default.

I'm just saying that a lot of folks want to believe in something that they'll take "I don't know" as a "yes".

[Stellar]

Why do aliens only visit wealthy countries? How come we never see UFOs hovering over Zimbabwe or India or Guatemala?

Bunch of discriminating extraterrestrials.

[Chris Nowlin]

I just want to be sure we don't fall into the "if you can't explain it, it must prove that (_insert phenomenon here_) is true" trap.

Until there's evidence of alien space ships flying around, it's irrational to believe in them by default.

I'm just saying that a lot of folks want to believe in something that they'll take "I don't know" as a "yes".

Fair enough. Just sounded like you were hinting "I don't know" should be treated as "no" for the time being


EDIT: Which is exactly what they want you to think. The truth is out there!

[Mike Smash!]

Fair enough. Just sounded like you were hinting "I don't know" should be treated as "no" for the time being

However.... (there always is one)... I don't think all "I don't know"s are created equally. From that point, I simply ask myself what the odds are that it's possible. Some "I don't know"s, like say, Bigfoot or astrology, are so remote that's it's effectively a "no".

[king mob]

I just want to be sure we don't fall into the "if you can't explain it, it must prove that (_insert phenomenon here_) is true" trap.

Until there's evidence of alien space ships flying around, it's irrational to believe in them by default.

I'm just saying that a lot of folks want to believe in something that they'll take "I don't know" as a "yes".

That's the viewpoint of what is now a relatively small group of UFOlogists. The 'ET' explanation is not the default explanation for a majority of 'believers' and hasn't been for some time.

[Mike Smash!]

That's the viewpoint of what is now a relatively small group of UFOlogists. The 'ET' explanation is not the default explanation for a majority of 'believers' and hasn't been for some time.

What is the majority opinion ?

[Tobias March]

Why do aliens only visit wealthy countries? How come we never see UFOs hovering over Zimbabwe or India or Guatemala?

Bunch of discriminating extraterrestrials.

I know a guy who claims he encountered a UFO flying over a part of rural India. Nice guy. Very big smile.

[OzBat!]

I know a guy who claims he encountered a UFO flying over a part of rural India. Nice guy. Very big smile.Alien Dentists do a roaring trade in some third-world countries.

[Justin D.]

I just want to be sure we don't fall into the "if you can't explain it, it must prove that (_insert phenomenon here_) is true" trap.

Until there's evidence of alien space ships flying around, it's irrational to believe in them by default.

I'm just saying that a lot of folks want to believe in something that they'll take "I don't know" as a "yes".

All true, but I think that by pure numbers alone, life has to exist elsewhere in the universe, or even the galaxy, other than on Earth. By life, I mean more than just plants or basic animals, but some sentient life as far along as us or farther in whatever way you want to interpret that.

Actually, because you're an atheist and had the comment above, it made me think that atheists would be some of the first people to accept the idea of life on other planets. There may not be conclusive proof, but logically, it makes more sense than not.

[Mike Smash!]

All true, but I think that by pure numbers alone, life has to exist elsewhere in the universe, or even the galaxy, other than on Earth. By life, I mean more than just plants or basic animals, but some sentient life as far along as us or farther in whatever way you want to interpret that.

Actually, because you're an atheist and had the comment above, it made me think that atheists would be some of the first people to accept the idea of life on other planets. There may not be conclusive proof, but logically, it makes more sense than not.

Oh, I agree. Based on sheer scale and size, I do believe that there is inevitably sentient life somewhere in the universe. I'm just extremely skeptical about it having visited Earth or about it abducting people, harrassing livestock and hatching clandestine plots with world leaders.

[Chris Nowlin]

Oh, I agree. Based on sheer scale and size, I do believe that there is inevitably sentient life somewhere in the universe. I'm just extremely skeptical about it having visited Earth or about it abducting people, harrassing livestock and hatching clandestine plots with world leaders.

Are you as skeptical about all the anal probing?

[Mike Smash!]

Are you as skeptical about all the anal probing?Only the kind claimed to be done by extraterrestrials.

[(A)//(E)]

I could see someone mistaking a bunch of aliens and thier UFO for a group of NYC cops with a plunger handle and the police cruiser lights flashing.

[BlairH]

Why do aliens only visit wealthy countries? How come we never see UFOs hovering over Zimbabwe or India or Guatemala?

Bunch of discriminating extraterrestrials.

Perhaps the Third World lacks the ability or will to record UFO sightings?

If the UFOs are driven by some kind of alien intelligence, they'd probably be more interested in the First World's technology than the Third World's soil and muck.

[Chris Nowlin]

Why do aliens only visit wealthy countries? How come we never see UFOs hovering over Zimbabwe or India or Guatemala?

Bunch of discriminating extraterrestrials.

The problem would be convincing the world that aliens have been spotted in, say, Suriname, when most Americans wouldn't even believe you that the country exists.

[Mike Smash!]

...when most Americans wouldn't even believe you that the country exists.

That's exactly what THEY want you to think!

[Tages]

Not being able to explain it doesn't mean that it's aliens, however. Just that it can't be explained. Yet.

...the origin post didn't mention aliens.

[Mike Smash!]

...the origin post didn't mention aliens.No, but a couple posts after it did.

[Alan2099]

Oh, I agree. Based on sheer scale and size, I do believe that there is inevitably sentient life somewhere in the universe. I'm just extremely skeptical about it having visited Earth or about it abducting people, harrassing livestock and hatching clandestine plots with world leaders.

Admit it, if you could go to another planet, you'd be hatching clandestine plots and harrassing their lifestock too.

[king mob]

What is the majority opinion ?

There isn't one. Yes, there's still the nutters who look at every UFO sighting as aliens but in reality it's split between genuine investigators who will try to find out a reasonable reason be it secret aircraft, or ballooons or anything that has a rational explanation.

[dingo]

Oh, I agree. Based on sheer scale and size, I do believe that there is inevitably sentient life somewhere in the universe. I'm just extremely skeptical about it having visited Earth or about it abducting people, harrassing livestock and hatching clandestine plots with world leaders.

Don't forget that the universe is finite in size, and the time period in which we would have recorded such phenomena is infintisimally small.

I might accept that sentient life will or did exist, but existing at the same time as us seems unlikely.

[david r]

Why would aliens fly all the way to Earth to do an anal probe on some human?

Don't they have better things to do than look up our "black holes"?

[david r]

1945: Humans detonate the first atomic bombs, starting the atomic age.

June 1947: The modern UFO age begins, as an air force pilot sees several silver discs flying in the distance from his jet. The sun shining off of them, the pilot cannot explain what he saw, and coins the phrase "flying saucers."

July 1947: Weeks later, the Roswell incident occurs. Unknown debris crash lands on a farmers ranch in Corona, New Mexico following a violent thunder storm. After a week, the farmer Mac Brazel reports the crash to the Roswell Air Force Base. Two agents travel to the site and investigate. Their conclusion: the debris is of an unknown object with properties never seen before. A worldwide stir is created when the first report sent out from Roswell Base is they have recovered the crashed remains of an extraterrestrial craft.

The next day, a general in Washington DC (who has not seen the material) belittles the Roswell report and says the debris is of a weather balloon. Mac Brazel's farm is quarantined and soldiers spend days recovering the mysterious debris. Mac Brazel is locked away at the Roswell base for nearly a week, under virtual house arrest. The sheriff of Roswell is not even allowed onto the crash site, and is informed the remains there are "beyond top secret."

Rumors have surfaced that a second crash site is found, a few miles from the the Mac Brazel one. Archaeologists in the area stumble upon the ship intself, badly damaged and crashed halfway into a cliffside. A hatch is open and several dead, "humanoid-like" bodies lie dead around the craft. The rumor states that within minutes, the military arrive on the scene, debrief the people to keep their mouths shut, and begin the recovery of the wreckage.

One last note, why would aliens have any interest in the isolated, barren wastes of Roswell, New Mexico? Possible answer: in 1947, the Roswell Air Force Base was the only place on the planet which held atomic weapons.

[david r]

From the late 1940 and well into the 1960s, reports of flying saucers accelerate into a phenomenon. The government has no explanation, but usually try to belittle the reports.

1952: Dozens of silver discs are seen by hundreds of people, hovering over our nation's capital, Washington DC. One disc is even seen directly over Congress, causing a major stir which sent shockwaves at the time. The next day newspapers ran headlines which read "Saucers sworm over Capital."

The United States government, under pressure to explain what is happening, launch "Blue Book", the official investigation into these phenomenon. Meanwhile, reports of UFOs become a nearly weekly occurence throughout the world.

1964: Rumors have circulated that in 1964, the human race and an alien civilization come into direct contact for the first time. You've seen the ending of "Close Encounters of the Third Kind"? Rumors have long swirled that in that year, our government had final confirmation and a meeting place with the UFOs happened. The outcome of this: unknown.

[niall mc cann]

Why do aliens only visit wealthy countries? How come we never see UFOs hovering over Zimbabwe or India or Guatemala?

Bunch of discriminating extraterrestrials.

I don't know that it has as much to do with a country's wealth as it does their relative intellectual development. Countries like The US and France have comparatively well-educated populations, and when a people's rational functions are overdeveloped in terms of their unconscious ones, it can lead to stuff like this. As more and more religious and folk belief becomes rationally descredited in the western world, but the unconscious functioning of our minds isn't changed or even well understood, people end up seeking new vessels for spiritual urges. Hence this stuff.

I would say there aren't that many UFO sightings in Zimbabwe, but you might find people accept strange sights and occurances more readily as witchcraft or divine intervention. A friend of mine lived in Nigeria for a while in the eighties. He loved the place, and a lot of his stories are a bit strange, to me.

I don't know if you've ever read any Carl Jung, but he deals with a lot of stuff like this. If i was a bit more knowledgable about the discipline i might explain it better, but for now that's the best i can do. I can point you in the direction of maybe The Undiscovered Self. It's a very interesting book that deals with what is perhaps a related subject.

[Justin D.]

Don't forget that the universe is finite in size, and the time period in which we would have recorded such phenomena is infintisimally small.

I might accept that sentient life will or did exist, but existing at the same time as us seems unlikely.

It baffles me when people say this. Finite in size in no way means small or even recordable by us. Finite in size or not, the universe is still beyond our comprehension when it comes to measurement. That may change in time (a lot of time), but as it is now, we have no way to examine every galaxy in the universe and everything they would contain.

[Citizen V]

The truth needs to come out,Aliens exist.

[Mike Smash!]

Don't forget that the universe is finite in size, and the time period in which we would have recorded such phenomena is infintisimally small.

I might accept that sentient life will or did exist, but existing at the same time as us seems unlikely.


Finite doesn't mean small. It's large beyond our comprehension of the word. Indescribably big. And the piece of it that we've explored such a small fraction of it that we've barely scratched the surface.

We know that we exist and that we are sentient. Therefore, we know that sentient life exists in the universe. Given the size and diversity of the universe, it likely exists somewhere else, but it's still impossible to lay odds on it or determine how far away it could be.

[david r]

The truth needs to come out,Aliens exist.

I don't agree. Look at the world around you. Look at the hatred, the bigotry, the death and destruction, and our talent at killing ourselves off by the millions.

I do not believe the human race is anywhere near ready for the knowledge that there is an alien race, watching us. We don't know anything about them or what they want. The implications for religious, spiritual, and technological ramifications are staggering. If this is all true, I think the gov't should keep it hidden, because we as a race are still fighting over mounds of dirt here on Earth. We're NOT prepared for dealing with something as massive as this.

IMO

[Chris Nowlin]

I don't agree. Look at the world around you. Look at the hatred, the bigotry, the death and destruction, and our talent at killing ourselves off by the millions.

I do not believe the human race is anywhere near ready for the knowledge that there is an alien race, watching us. We don't know anything about them or what they want. The implications for religious, spiritual, and technological ramifications are staggering. If this is all true, I think the gov't should keep it hidden, because we as a race are still fighting over mounds of dirt here on Earth. We're NOT prepared for dealing with something as massive as this.

IMO


Religious ramifications are scary to consider.

But I could imagine it doing wonders for racism and other forms of inter-human predjudice.

We'd suddenly seem so similar and maybe stop irrationally hating each other and start irrationally fearing them.

[Sanagi]

We'd suddenly seem so similar and maybe stop irrationally hating each other and start irrationally fearing them.
What a beautiful dream.

[GremlinClr]

Don't forget that the universe is finite in size, and the time period in which we would have recorded such phenomena is infintisimally small.

I might accept that sentient life will or did exist, but existing at the same time as us seems unlikely.

"The Universe is Big. Bigger than the biggest thing ever and then some. Much bigger than that in fact, really amazingly immense, a totally stunning size, real "wow, that's big" time. Infinity is just so big that, by comparison, bigness itself looks really titchy. Gigantic multiplied by colossal multiplied by staggeringly huge is the sort of concept we're trying to get across here."
- Douglas Adams

[Charles RB]

We'd suddenly seem so similar and maybe stop irrationally hating each other and start irrationally fearing them.

"Black and white lived in perfect harmony and ganged up on green."