New CC Characters Post 2000

[streator]

I don't understand why there is such hatred out there for CC characters created post 2000. Where does it come from?

this got me thinking, and i didn't want to derail the decimation thread with comments about it.

i'm going to try and compile a list of all characters created by claremont since 2000 or so. i don't have my collection with me, so i'm mainly going to use memory and issue summaries from www.uncannyxmen.net.

i will admit to having a negative bias going into this. i'm not expecting to like most of the characters i turn up. but, i haven't hated everything he's done since 2000 and who knows, i may be surprised.

i'm starting with his revolution runs, then xxm, then uncanny, then excalibur (3rd series) and lastly new excalibur. i'll try to fit in side projects (like mekanix) chronologically, but it may not be exact. feel free to add/modify this list.

X-Men 100-109
thunderbird III
domina (neo)
jaeger (neo)
rax (neo)
kilmer (neo)
seth (neo)
various other neo
elysia (neo)
tartarus (neo)
various other neo
rufus delgado and henchmen (is he a new character?)
anteus (neo)
barbican (neo)
salvo (neo)
beldame (goth)
sanguine (goth)
wanderer (goth)
broadside (crimson pirates)
killian (crimson pirates)
sea dogs (crimson pirates)
kymri
liu wo-han
chung
junction (neo)
ransome sole (neo)
static (neo)
big casino (sole’s bodyguard)
z'cann (cadre k)

[Hi-Fi]

OK, from that list, here are the only ones I have some interest in:


Thunderbird III
Kymri



Is Kymri the blue pirate girl from Excalibur? If so, she's a pretty old character, and great by the way.

[streator]

Uncanny X-Men 381-389
shockwave riders (neo)
desolation (neo)
dirge (neo)
lament (neo)
requiem (neo)
big casino (neo)
bludgeon (neo)
cudgel (neo)
manacle (neo)
revenant (neo)
sketch
ransome sole (neo)
farahd (neo)
galadriel (neo)
kara
bloody bess (crimson pirates)
broadside (crimson pirates)
killian (crimson pirates)
sea dogs (crimson pirates)
beldame (goth)
goth (goth)
sanguine (goth)
wanderer (goth)
goroth (cadre k)
other mutant skrulls (cadre k)

[Beast]

Mike Carey seems to recognize the value in them. Given that he's playing with Karima and Lady Mastermind. And had plans for Thunderbird III that had to be dropped due to page count. He also mentioned Vargas on his blog, would be nice to see him play with him as well. And the Children are similar to the Neo. :)

[streator]

Is Kymri the blue pirate girl from Excalibur? If so, she's a pretty old character, and great by the way.

i'm not 100% sure on all of these characters being new or not; if i don't recognize them or remember them after some deliberation i'm listing them as such; feel free to correct me though.

[Kalen O.]

Hmm, well most of Claremont's creations post 2000 have been pretty hit or miss for me. I either liked them or hated them, with a few that just bored me.

I actually really liked Thunderbird III, not sure why, but I did. Lifeguard interested me at first, but he threw in possible Shi'ar backstory and everything WAY too early, and it just made her seem rushed and unnecessarily convoluted to me. Slipstream was another character I thought HAD potential, but then it just...disappeared. Like, I would have actually been interested to see him an X-Man by association only...and then turn to the 'dark side' like in The End, following in his crime boss father's footsteps or whatever. He could have made a good X-villain, ultimately, I think.

I hated most of the Neo. Like with a passion. Don't know why, I just....didn't get them. Which is weird, cuz Carey's Children of the Vault really aren't too different conceptuatlly, and yet I loved them. I guess it really is all in the execution. But yeah, only Neo I actually liked was Salvo, cuz he was hot. Or maybe it was Rax? Nah, he was the whiny one...whatever.

The pirates storylines I actually did like kinda. I've always liked the mutant market idea, as it just makes sense to me that some people would view certain mutants as an actual resource. I mean, a character like Alchemy who literally CAN turn things into gold....or a mutant like Elixir who could heal anyone or anything? Of course people would be out to exploit them. So I did like that storyline, and Sketch had a cool power....I just couldn't really see her working as an X-Man. Her power was too passive, you know? Like it required too much setup, and actually making it work repeatedly in an action setting or firefight strains believability for me.

Other than that.....liked Evangeline Whedon, wish we could see more of her not just for her power, but because of the mutant lawyer angle as well....and of course, I think Freakshow and Wicked rocked.

And while not a Marvel property, I DID like Claremont's Gen13 characters as well. Gwen and Hamza had cool powers, Ethan was a bit of a stretch (tie-ing his healing powers to fire was just....reaching, I think, especially since the only reason for it was a connection to Ethan's fireman father), and Ja'nelle's use of her telepathy and other psychic powers was actually fairly innovative. That said, I hated Claremont's Gen13 storylines. *Shrugs*

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Didn't he create Wicked? For some reason, I wouldn't mind seeing Wicked and Scanner interact with each other. They just seem to be two mutants that would make for an interesting dialogue session.

[Hi-Fi]

And the Children are similar to the Neo. :)
Not really. The Children are better characters, they have more distinguished personalities and looks.

Also, Mike said Vargas will get a cameo soon (probably when they touch the whole Destiny's Diary subject).

And from your second list, Streator, the only one that I have little interest is Sketch.

I basically hated all the characters CC created for Revolution. I much prefered the new "wave": Evangeline Whedon, Wicked, Hub, Shola and Lifeguard (a little). I wasn't a fan of Lady Mastermind and Karima until Carey got them.

In fact, CC wrote Regan as being Martinique, but the editors caught that in time and they quickly changed her origin, since Martinique was appearing in Uncanny at the time. That's the story I know, anyway.

[Hi-Fi]

i'm not 100% sure on all of these characters being new or not; if i don't recognize them or remember them after some deliberation i'm listing them as such; feel free to correct me though.
If you're talking about Kymri from X-Men The End, Nightcrawle's girlfriend, then yeah, she's a pretty old character from Excalibur. She's cool.

[Beast]

Didn't he create Wicked? For some reason, I wouldn't mind seeing Wicked and Scanner interact with each other. They just seem to be two mutants that would make for an interesting dialogue session.
He did. He created both her and Freakshow. And don't forget Shola. Shame they were depowered. :(

[Beast]

I basically hated all the characters CC created for Revolution.
Yeah, they weren't the greatest and didn't get enough chance for development. Like CC said, it was due to a number of factors. Mostly that readers and editorial wanted nothing but new characters in Revolution. And then didn't give them a chance to be developed before it was "Next. Bring back the old ones." His stuff for X-Treme was a lot more developed. Still hoping to see Lifeguard and Thunderbird III again.

[Flameworthy]

The only character I've actually liked that CC created post 2000, was Broadband. I have no idea why, but visually he looked cool and I thought his powers were really interesting. He was the sole reason I kept reading that boring series. I feel like he could have so much potential, and hey he's still has his powers, so maybe one day I'll see him again.

[streator]

X-Treme X-Men 1-24
vargas
thais
thaiis
deigo sandoval
ms. cortes
gomez
red lotus
the examiner
julius gow
inspector menzies
heather cameron
davis cameron
dr. peter lambert
lady mastermind (i know it was meant to be martinique originally, but as it stands this would be regan's first appearance)
inspector teri baltimore
the boxers
shaitan
khan
largo
skinwalker
tigio
dukane
mugu
jalene
mr. jellicoe
gloom
jeffrey garrett
silicon
tantra
zach
sheriff mulder
elias bogan
rubbermaid
rueben
detective cardones
detective moran
sheriff gideon troy
sheriff graymalkin
evangeline whedon
mr. talent
ms. talent
oliver rolland
xander
ms. andes
mary holland
mr. rosario
alice
dermott
ginger
sarge

[Hi-Fi]

His stuff for X-Treme was a lot more developed.
Agreed. The third list Streator posted is much better. Vargas wasn't really my cup of tea but I was really interested in Elias Bogan. "Schism", "Intifada" and "Prisioner of Fire" are three of my favorite CC arcs from the last years.

The Revolution stuff: definitely not good in my opinion.

[david r]

1) Sketch: She was planned to become a full-fledged X-Men. Claremont planned for her to join the Uncanny team, her original codename was to be Reanimator.

2) You have forgotten:

Book patterned after Comix-Fan poster Ann Nichols!
I forget the name, but the sole survivor of the Broccoli people was introduced in Uncanny X-Men #387, hunting down Jean Grey for vengeance.

Puffball
Tessa gaining the codename Sage and joining an X-team is a new development.
I know there are more....

Every time Claremont began new stories, or new characters, Marvel always shut him down. Bouncing him from book to book like a ball in a pinball machine. Bastards

[Flameworthy]

Oh, you know what, I actually did like Jeffrey Garrett too, but Nunzio and Christina ruined him for me. He was supposed to be 14 and he even had thing with Rubbermaid, but they turned him into an tantrum throwing, 8 year old ghost.

[david r]

Amanda Sefton becoming the new Magik was a new development.
The H'Kaau (sp?) were new.
The Sh'iar Death Commandoes.

[streator]

X-Treme X-Men 25-46
dylan
maureen lyszinski
reverend paul
cybill
dave garza
connie
bubble
aaron pankow
jack
paint
marie d'ancanto
adele massey
rudy soares
jared molloy
tan jemin
barb
cutter
dervish
porous
skitz
stringfellow
masato koga
musclehead
serafina montoya
paradise
posterboy
purge
dervish II
lamprey
lariat
quill
rolling thunder

[Beast]

Oh, you know what, I actually did like Jeffrey Garrett too, but Nunzio and Christina ruined him for me. He was supposed to be 14 and he even had thing with Rubbermaid, but they turned him into an tantrum throwing, 8 year old ghost.
Yeah, I didn't like that. Though it's better than the original plans.

[streator]

a general comment: i've read all of these issues, and know about the characters (i.e. sketch becoming an x-man). i'm just throwing together lists.

[Beast]

The Sh'iar Death Commandoes.
They were great for the limited development they got. Still hoping that if Rachel's going to be the cold-blooded killer that she's being made into, god I still hope the Phoenix echo is messing with her, that she runs into them again. It would at least make more sense than killing random Shi'ar troops. :p

[david r]

I believe in my heart that if Marvel would just leave him the fudge alone, Chris Claremont could still create fantastic X-tales.

He did it for 17 years, with virtually no problems, and wrote some of the best X-tales. I simply do NOT believe he suddenly lost his talent post-2000. His post-2000 run is littered with ideas and characters left in the cold, and we seldom saw that in his 17 year run.

[Beast]

I believe in my heart that if Marvel would just leave him the fudge alone, Chris Claremont could still create fantastic X-tales.

He did it for 17 years, with virtually no problems, and wrote some of the best X-tales. I simply do NOT believe he suddenly lost his talent post-2000. His post-2000 run is littered with ideas and characters left in the cold, and we seldom saw that in his 17 year run.
That's why I'm enjoying his Exiles run pretty much more than anything in the recent years. The tight reigns have come off and he's having fun again. Seeing the fight between Creed and Captain America and such, and him playing with a lighter character like Morph. Now that's good stuff.

[streator]

Uncanny X-Men 444-473
weaponeers (new or only used a few times before?)
matt massey
melody guthrie
tommy reichert
lars hoel
ella thurlough
jade parisi
carl
sabine
domenic parisi
matthew
geech (gah!)
the cleaning crew
kaidan (hauk’ka)
raina (hauk’ka)
masado (hauk’ka)
viri
m’kai
s’gur
jimi
t-rex
colonel reyes
dr. senyaka
wilson
black cloak
colony
devo
hypernova
krait
offset
sega
shell
warshot
flaw
bean
salamander

[david r]

Bean...I still wonder where that character was headed.

[streator]

Mekanix
dylan maguire
dr. maureen lyzinski
shola inkosi
alice tremaine
jeff holloway
tom more
simon benes
detective ramos
detective lukaszh
noel penrose


/i did not list kitty's various classmates

[david r]

Damn, that's a lot of characters.

Worth noting Lockdown from his Fantastic Four run. He and his female partner were planned for something bigger.

[Arilou]

Claremont isn't bad at throwing out ideas, the problem is that he tends to make them insanely complex and including a bunch of disparate elements, and his other problem is that he's just not that good at actually *writing*. His use of language is often repetitive and unpleasant to read.

[Beast]

The Weaponeers were from his Fantastic Four run, if I recall correctly.

Melody wasn't new. She's been around since the original New Mutants days.

[streator]

Excalibur (2nd series)
freakshow
wicked
hack
hub
purge
karima shapandar (i know she first appeared in x-men unlimited 27, but did cc write that too?)
stripmine
ranger one-zero
appraiser
book
broadband
jono baraka
rashid
general umbaja
taniqa
scimitar

[Beast]

karima shapandar (i know she first appeared in x-men unlimited 27, but did cc write that too?)
Yep, good story. :)

[streator]

New Excalibur 1-8
dark x-men
rana mousabi (?)
albion II
alice connery
agent scicluna
gareth edwards

[streator]

X-Men: Black Sun
colonel wei (?)

X-Treme X-Men: X-Pose
holly
craig damaski
evie
officer mendes
paul d’antoni
nicki yeoh

X-Treme X-Men: Savage Land
c'rel
khadar
lupa
delage
jimi
m'kai

X-Men Unlimited 27, 36, 43
karima shapandar
sanjit sharra
neal's parents
dylan maguire
thomas maguire
jeff holloway
ruth
dr. rusch
trigorin

beyond x-men: the end, am i missing any other cc post 2000 series?

[Omega Alpha]

Most of them are very uninteresting. There is no X-character i dislike as much as Thunderbird III, his mere existance, as well as the purpose he was created and even his name are all mistakes. The Neo were all pretty stupid too, and it was a very dull storyline that fortunadely was cut short.

I love Karima and Lady Mastermind, but i never read them written by CC (and i was told they were very uninteresting with him), and the credit for me liking them goes all to Carey.


Every time Claremont began new stories, or new characters, Marvel always shut him down. Bouncing him from book to book like a ball in a pinball machine. Bastards

Then, maybe, instead of try to create 300 new characters every issue, create hundreds of subplots which are only solved 50 issues later, and all being insanely complex, he should be focusing on characters and smaller storylines.

And, maybe, only maybe, he keeps getting removed from the books ever since his return because his work is a critical and commercial failure? :confused:


He did it for 17 years, with virtually no problems, and wrote some of the best X-tales. I simply do NOT believe he suddenly lost his talent post-2000. His post-2000 run is littered with ideas and characters left in the cold, and we seldom saw that in his 17 year run.

Claremont had editorial interference in the 80's, and from these editorial interferences came Inferno, X-tinction Agenda, etc, all great stories, now no good comes out of it. And all other writers at Marvel have editorial interference in a bigger or a smaller degree, mostly depending on how sucessful they are, and several or most are able to do great work, why is Claremont the only one that is unable to do so?

And, yes, some artists do lose their talent or are never able to do work as great as they used to before. Is Coppola's post 70's work is as good as the one he did in that decade? Do John Byrne's work nowdays is as good as it used to be? It's the same with Claremont. And what makes worse is that he doesn't have anything to say about the X-men anymore and still keeps writing about it, when he should be doing anything else.

Yeah, they weren't the greatest and didn't get enough chance for development. Like CC said, it was due to a number of factors. Mostly that readers and editorial wanted nothing but new characters in Revolution. And then didn't give them a chance to be developed before it was "Next. Bring back the old ones."

If they were good, people wouldn't be asking them to be thrown out, and if most people liked them, editors wouldn't tell him to drop the stories either. Carey picked up two characters which were barely known, Karima and Lady Mastermind, and it's making them popular in X-men, most people like Darwin, etc, so that's only an excuse as much as "evil editors conspire against CC".

[streator]

well, here's my list of post 2000 claremont characters that i enjoyed/wouldn't mind seeing again/still enjoy:

domina
salvo
vargas
lady mastermind
maureen lyzinski
colonel reyes
shola inkosi
tom more
dylan maguire
alice tremaine
karima shapandar


again, what i've posted earlier is likely not complete nor 100% accurate, but it's probably not too far off. i don't have time to do it now, but maybe i'll throw up links for each character (if available) sometime for those who don't recognize them by name (i know i'm drawing a blank on some of them myself).

[jcp011c]

To quote Beast (not the poster, the character) "Oh my stars and garters." That IS a lot of characters.
To me most of these people are forgettable, or have absolutely no substance to them. This may be because Claremont wasn't able to flesh them out, but it may be becuase with having dozens of characters introduced in each arc, they got lost in the shuffle.
While not all of notable rememberance, the characters I liked were :
Domina
All of the Goth, Bedlame, Sanguine...etc. granted they were also lost in the shuffle but they were badass in their short appearance.
Revenant
Tullimore Voge
Sketch
Lady Mastermind
Vargas
Karima Shandipar
Lifeguard
Freakshow
Wicked

[Faded]

The only one I truly like (no, LOVE!) is Wicked. I wish Claremont (or even Hine) took her a bit further than we got.

Like Hi-Fi, Lady M and Karima (yes, Karima, I kinda-sorta like her now) weren't interesting until Mike Carey (and both still have some convincing to go, moreso Karima. I'm almost entirely sold on Lady M now as a pure favorite). I only liked Domina when she got pwned by Magneto before Eve of Destruction. :D I think that would've been an interesting team up. His "abandoned plot" for the Neo didn't really interest me, nor did their canonical appearances.

Freakshow, Shola, Red Lotus, and Colonel Reyes were pretty cool, too. The latter is pretty surprising since I despise added-on siblings of significance. And then there were some cool Kordey designs during the Arena but I don't know their names.

[blinkinrogue]

really? vargas is returning? so i guess rogue didnt kill him after all.... well that's good, i kinda liked him though i found it odd that a guy with a sword plus a couple of abilities could seriously hurt the x-treme x-men that much...

Omega, about coppola, its not really that he lost his touch, i see more of it as Apocalypse Now has seriously caused him great pain and affected him to a deep level, so much in fact that he was never the same after he did it..... but i think the guy is still a genius, its just that he has not found the right project yet, for me FFC is the best director of all time....

[Karl H]

Yeah for me of those lists:

I liked

Cadre K - they so deserve their own Annihalation mini
Shola - Posted on him in the Decimated thread
Lady M and Karima - always thought they had potential although I do find the 2 lady M's business a tad confusing
Col Reyes - hoping he finds his sister
and
Vargas

The rest either weren't around enough for me to get interested in, or were kind of meh... Elias Bogan had potential but I felt it was never really used.

[Mikl C]

X-Men 100-109
thunderbird III- HATE HATE HATE. He's such a CRAP character. Sure he was indian and sometimes hot, but his powers and personality -"rookie" were so cliché and he had no right to take that name. Lameass.
domina (neo)
jaeger (neo)
rax (neo)
kilmer (neo)
seth (neo)
various other neo
elysia (neo)
tartarus (neo)
various other neo
The neo were SO BAD. None of them got any development, they disappeared into nowhere, they had lame powers and motivation and they never really explained how much better they were than the x-men. Who kicked their lame asses. Eurgh.

rufus delgado and henchmen (is he a new character?)
Don't care, he sucked too.
big casino (sole’s bodyguard)
Sucked.

z'cann (cadre k)
Hm. I wasn't a huge fan of Kadre K but I don't have the same hatred for them as any of the above.

Uncanny X-Men 381-389
shockwave riders (neo)
desolation (neo)
dirge (neo)
lament (neo)
requiem (neo)
big casino (neo)
bludgeon (neo)
cudgel (neo)
manacle (neo)
revenant (neo)
These ones sucked even more than those ones^
Probably because of disgusting Raney artwork.
sketch
Ok yes. Cool. I liked her. And then she disappeared.

X-Treme X-Men 1-24
vargas
Was interesting at the start. Then he became lame and annoying, and kinda dumb.

red lotus
Shang Chi ripoff.


heather cameron
davis cameron
Suck. Davis more than anyone. Ever.

lady mastermind
Claremont's Regan does nothing for me. Carey made her cool, but I didn't like her in x-treme.

khan
LAME!
SO
SO
LAME
Be my QUEEN!
NEVER!
You are magnificent!
I choose not to surrender!
ARRRGHHHH

elias bogan
I liked Prisoner of Fire in PLACES. Bogan seems somewhat interesting.



X-Treme X-Men 25-46

reverend paul
I hated GLMK2. Seriously hated. It made no sense to me whatsoever.

marie d'ancanto
ARGH! I HATE HER THE MOST OF ANY SUPPORTING CHARACTER EVER!

paradise
posterboy
purge
dervish II
lamprey
lariat
quill
rolling thunder
From the Arena, right?
Worst x-men story ever. And I'm not exaggerating.

X-Men Unlimited 27, 36, 43
karima shapandar
Sucked under Claremont, cool under Carey. I'm seeing a pattern here.
Doubt he could make me like Slipstream though.

So, all in all, they SUCK.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

He did. He created both her and Freakshow. And don't forget Shola. Shame they were depowered. :(

Shola and Wicked were getting VERY interesting as just when the book was getting shafted. DAMN!

[Pro]

geech (gah!)

I actually liked Geech, common he was so clearly a buffed up John Travolta from pulp Fiction, it was humorous.

[Pro]

What happened to the Neo anyway? I recall them as such fizzling out of existence, never to be heard from again.

[Karl H]

What happened to the Neo anyway? I recall them as such fizzling out of existence, never to be heard from again.

Magneto kicked their asses in the horrid Eve of Destruction storyline they joined him and presumably died on Genosha?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Okay I'll throw my views into the arena, of characters I want to see more of principally.

Thunderbird III - to me was a brilliant character. In some ways sure he was a token ethinic character, but I felt he was a lot more than that. I think it didn't help that he had the 'Thunderbird' tag but he's certainly a character I'd like to see returned. Maybe in New excalibur. Britain has such huge links with Arab nations, via immigrant families, and it would be great to have him on board.

The Neo - I liked the Neo a lot. Not initially, admittedly. But on re-reading a month or so ago I actually found myself thinking that Marvel really shot themselves in the foot by allowing Scott Lobdell to execute them all, bar Domina. The X-Men lack good strong villains by exactly this kind of Editorial screw up in the late 90s. They're a strong concept - another race of superbeings who have co-existed with man, in the shadows, all this time, but find themselves decimated by events caused in X-Men continuity. But I think the problem here was that this was really NOT and X-Men concept, but a Marvel Universe concept. And to launch this at the same time as Marvel were launching an X-Men Movie franchise? well it's not what they wanted. A real shame. If he'd pitched it today the more MU centric Marvel we have now would have welcomed it.


The Crimson Pirates - I really liked these guys. Were they Neo, were they freebooters? Who knows. As far as we know they're still active in Eastern Europe. They reminded me of the long since removed Dark Riders. We need more teams like this.

Kymri - Actually not a new character. She featured in an early cross-time issue of Excalibur. When Excalibur visited that dimension they helped Kymri to liberate her people, and then made her captain Britain of that dimension along with a human sized version of Lockheed. The problem was that they weren't REALLY Captain Britains - they had no power connection to otherworld - just superheroes in a costume. Not much surprise then that Kymri was enslaved by Tullamore Voge and turned into a hound. I really wanted to see this minor plot point followed up on. But sadly to date it hasn't been.

Tullamore Voge - Expanding a character who first turned up in Excalibur, fairly early on, in the same story which introduced Kymri. He belongs to a race of inter-universal slavers. Superbeings are a commodity they trade in. I would love to see his race of people turn up in eXiles.

SHADOW X-Men - Not DARK X-men, as they have been labelled in the solicits. They take their name from having been corrupted mentally by the Shadow King, during his time trapped in the dimension he found himself in, after Psylocke had died with him still imprisoned in his head. When Wanda split the seams of all the dimensions in Otherworld, during Uncanny in House of M, he used his new pawns to found a way back to Earth 616. So in many ways they were a plot device to facilitate that. But at the same point I did quite like the faceless iceman, or the the Angel with blades shooting out from his wrists. And Shadow Jean Grey was nasty... I'm glad we'll be seeing more of them shortly, and hopefully we'll find out who they were working for.

Albion: Not much has been explained in panel about Albion, largely because of Claremont's absence, but if you go back to his early interviews before New Excalibur (The ones where he's talking about the Hellfire Club as New Excalibur's chief adversary) it's pretty clear. Again, here we have a story which expands another Marvel Universe concept, rather than an X-Men one (Which I'm sure a number of X-readers will decide to resent on principle :rolleyes: ).

So far through Marvel's history those who have taken on the mantle of Captain Britain (And god knows we've seen plenty from different dimensions) havebeen offered a choice by the Celtic Gods (Roma or Merlyn depending on the period, and more recently by Brian himself) of the Amulet or the Sword. Both are mystic symbols representing two different paths. Brian Braddock took the amulet. As did every other captain we've met. Bar one. Kelsey Leigh - the female Captain Britain from The Avengers - chose the Sword. So what happened to all the others like her?

That's what Albion IS. If Brian is the most powerful Captain Britain who chose the Amulet, Albion is his opposite number. And there could be just as many of his guys as there were Captain Britains who serve Roma's Captain NBritain Corps (You know the guys who were supposed to oversee each dimension before we had the eXiles...) Where have they all been locked away? Funny that they've only appeared after the dimensions split their seams during House of M.

When Brian and Albion had a punch up a mile above London the very fabric of the City began to tearitself up below them. What will happen when two whole armies of Captains start duking it out? (Hint: Bad stuff).

Michelle Scicluna: Hate to break it to you Streator, but Scicluna is not a Claremont creation. She's Warren Ellis' from his Excalibur run back ten years back. She ran Black Air, the guys who came in overnight and took over British Military Intelligence, along with a guy who only ever went by the name of Mr Threadgold. Pete Wisdom used to work for these guys, until he found out about their role in mutant egineering in Genosha. Then he quit and joined Excalibur.

The whole of this series has had somebody running in the background. Who employed the Shadow X-Men, or the warwolves? Who bumped off the Fare East head of Fraser's Bank, the bank run by the Hellfire Club's Courtney Ross? Who paid a hacker to fraudulently clear all of Courtney's accounts, cancel her credit cards and her mobile phone, and then bump off the same hacker in India? Who are the shadowy men who have just forced Courtney to sign over the bank to them?

This has Black Air's stink all over it - sweep in overnight, take out strategic targets, and make your takeover look completely above board...

[Dizzy D]

Ah, multi-quote, how I love thee.

thunderbird III
Not a fan, let's leave it at that. He reminded me a bit of early Havok with the plasma powers and his fear of using them, but then he would get back to flirting with Psylocke again.

All Neo except for Domina.
Look, it's a name and a power and nothing else. My pet-peeve in comics. Maybe if he had made the group smaller so that individual Neo could get a bit more screentime to actually develop. See also GOth and Crimson Pirates.

Kymri
Like said, not a new character, but interesting enough. Always wondered about people pairing her up with Nightcrawler, just because they look the same. I certainly wouldn't want to date a girl looking exactly like me.

Cadre K/Mutant Skrulls
Weren't most of the (future) Cadre K introduced in the Twelve Story?

Vargas
Interesting enough, he had motivations and a personality, though there is the whole problem with all prophecies: they either can be broken like Rogue did, meaning that they are worthless or they can't be broken, which makes your actions irrelevant. I like that Vargas' actions were actually slowly creating the fate he tried to avoid.

Khan

Obligatory Star Trek reference:
http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/2496/042804khaaaanuu9.png (http://imageshack.us)

Elias Bogan
Think he has a lot of potential. It's hard to say I like him or not as we haven't actually met him yet. I'm firmly in the group that hopes he isn't the Shadow King though, but a new character.

Shola Inkosi
Liked him, lot of potential.

Dark X-men
Oh yes, X-Men, but they are DARK and EVIL... like DARK EVIL X-MEN, who are totally DARK and EVIL and SHADOWY.

agent Scicluna
Scicluna appeared first in Ellis' Excalibur and I don't think she's an agent, she runs Black Air (wonder what's the proper title.. probably Director Scicluna or something like that.)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Kymri
Like said, not a new character, but interesting enough. Always wondered about people pairing her up with Nightcrawler, just because they look the same. I certainly wouldn't want to date a girl looking exactly like me.

Yeah. Not a long term pairing with Kurt. It was just a 'in the heat of the moment thing'.

Elias Bogan
Think he has a lot of potential. It's hard to say I like him or not as we haven't actually met him yet. I'm firmly in the group that hopes he isn't the Shadow King though, but a new character.

It's in canon now. The Shadow King was in a different dimension, corrupting and taking over its Xavier at that point in continuity. So Bogan IS NOT - repeat NOT - The Shadow King. He's something altogether more unpleasant - and appears to have existed since the original Hellfire Club was founded in London, a good few centuries ago.

Shola Inkosi
Liked him, lot of potential.

Actually, yes. Forgot about him. Did have a lot of potential.

Dark X-men
Oh yes, X-Men, but they are DARK and EVIL... like DARK EVIL X-MEN, who are totally DARK and EVIL and SHADOWY.

Because they were pawns of the Shadow King. God knows what they'll do now he's no longer around to hepherd them.

agent Scicluna
Scicluna appeared first in Ellis' Excalibur and I don't think she's an agent, she runs Black Air (wonder what's the proper title.. probably Director Scicluna or something like that.)

Got it in one. She does indeed run them, with Mr Threadgold. Not sure her official title. I'd pull out my issues and look, but I'm actually quite ill today, and a bit too weak and pathetic to go searching...:( :D

[streator]

i had never heard of scicluna before, so i assumed she was a new character.

about cadre k, yeah they did form around uxm 379 or so. to be honest, i don't remember any specific names from that period other than fiz. z'cann and the other skrull i listed may have been around or cc may have introduced them later, i can't remember.

and i knew tullamore voge wasn't a new character, but i didn't remember the same about kymri.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

i had never heard of scicluna before, so i assumed she was a new character.

about cadre k, yeah they did form around uxm 379 or so. to be honest, i don't remember any specific names from that period other than fiz. z'cann and the other skrull i listed may have been around or cc may have introduced them later, i can't remember.

and i knew tullamore voge wasn't a new character, but i didn't remember the same about kymri.

Easily done. We are going back quite a stretch to when those stories were written. But I'm glad to see them returned to every once in a while.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Kymri is from original Excalibur in like 1989 I believe....

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Kymri is from original Excalibur in like 1989 I believe....

In fact I believe she was featured in the very issue from which you draw your avatar...;)

[ibrakeforchinwe]

In fact I believe she was featured in the very issue from which you draw your avatar...;)

That is correct! She's oooooold.

[Keith_Martineau]

I'm literally SHOCKED at how many characters he's tried to create, major and minor, since Revolution in 2000. I've read all of that, and even enjoyed a lot of the stories, but heavens! So much utterly disposable material.

And yeah, there are certain similarities between The Children of the Vault and the Neo. Let us not forget that the Neo came into the picture as a result of the High Evolutionary making everyone a human in the storyline preceding Revolution. That only lasted a day, and the Neo were adversely effected.
Contrast that the on the Children. They showed their head after...M-Day, where most mutants lose their powers and become human.

It's all about the execution.

And thats the problem with a lot of these character Claremont created. I remember some of them, and remember them as disposable, but I never fathomed there were SO MANY.
They may have a cool look, or a unique story...but then he writes them, and they all start out saying...
"I am <name>"
"We are <group name>"
and then they proceed in a total cookie cutter fashion. At least cookie cutter for Claremont. He's been doing this for SO LONG that he has a certain way of doing things. So when he introduces someone new...he does it the same way every time.
Mike Carey does it, and it's coming from his imagination, his sense of pace, his point of view on what is interesting, and even though it's conceptually similar, it feels much fresher cause we haven't read it 30 times before in his exact style.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I think it should also be pointed out, however, than in both of the most recent cases of Claremont having copme back to uncanny it has been with the remit of revitalising the brand - chiefly by bringing new characters and concepts.

However, once he's created all these new concepts the editors decided that they're not 'X-Men' enough for their taste and move him on again. The chronic need to publicise the X-Men movies plays a large part in their taking that stance.

As of 2006 Marvel NOW want the x-Men to be more integrated into their Universe, and less of a seperate entity.

Back in 2000 they wanted the pole opposite of that.

As I said earlier - if Claremont had pitched the Neo in last year's contect he'd have had a much greater response.

[Omega Alpha]

I think it should also be pointed out, however, than in both of the most recent cases of Claremont having copme back to uncanny it has been with the remit of revitalising the brand - chiefly by bringing new characters and concepts.

However, once he's created all these new concepts the editors decided that they're not 'X-Men' enough for their taste and move him on again. The chronic need to publicise the X-Men movies plays a large part in their taking that stance.

As of 2006 Marvel NOW want the x-Men to be more integrated into their Universe, and less of a seperate entity.

Back in 2000 they wanted the pole opposite of that.

As I said earlier - if Claremont had pitched the Neo in last year's contect he'd have had a much greater response.

Claremont's ideas weren't ditched only because the editors disliked them, they were abandoned because the public rejected them. If his work sold as much as it did in the 80's and early 90's, he could do pretty much anything he wanted.

[xmanson]

I looooove Lifeguard. Never got to see her final form, though, i herad the published a sketch of it in one of the trades.

[Keith_Martineau]

Claremont's ideas weren't ditched only because the editors disliked them, they were abandoned because the public rejected them. If his work sold as much as it did in the 80's and early 90's, he could do pretty much anything he wanted.

And, the second time he was put on Uncanny, was specifically because Alan Davis asked that he be the writer, when Marvel handed Uncanny X-Men to him. Not nessesarily because Marvel wanted Claremont to revitalize the concept.
That was what they wanted Whedon to do.

[xmanson]

Astonishing was mostly rehashing the concept than actually revitalizing it (it worked sales wise though, which is what matters for Marvel). As a flagship title (the one who should kinda show the direction of the line, like Morrison's X-Men) it failed horribly, being so late and completely ignoring the surroundings. Oh well, no more rants for today.