Nocturne part Deux

[Nachturne]

What happened to the Nocturne thread??? Was it removed?? I didn't get any notes bout that. You kids behave now!!!

To kick us off: The sex

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/tjslut.jpg

Even when getting tortured. That's my girl!

[Stephane Garrelie]

Who is the artist?

[jarrod]

Ew, she looks like Skrull.

That's McKone right?

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Its McKone, from early Exiles when the Exiles landed on Mojoworld and TJ's head was shaved and she was tortured.

[Arilou]

It's somewhat disquieting that you use a panel of torture to show how attractive Nocturne is, but oh well.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Arilou_skiff/NocturneBlink.jpg

This is a much better picture :p (Blink isn't too shabby either...)

[Stephane Garrelie]

Thanks Mike :)

[Stephane Garrelie]

;) This one is great Arilou, thanks to you too :p :)

[Beast]

It's somewhat disquieting that you use a panel of torture to show how attractive Nocturne is, but oh well.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Arilou_skiff/NocturneBlink.jpg

This is a much better picture :p (Blink isn't too shabby either...)
I wonder why noone screams about lesbians when you have panels like that. :p

[Arilou]

I wonder why noone screams about lesbians when you have panels like that. :p

Because it's too obviousy? It'd be like shooting monkeys in a barrel! (to mix metaphors....)

[Stephane Garrelie]

I wonder why noone screams about lesbians when you have panels like that. :p

Because Dazzler is not in them?;)

[Nachturne]

It's somewhat disquieting that you use a panel of torture to show how attractive Nocturne is, but oh well.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Arilou_skiff/NocturneBlink.jpg

This is a much better picture :p (Blink isn't too shabby either...)

Hehe, it is. It was the only pic I had in my photobucket account at the moment as I'm at work ;). I'll scour my photobucket for more though...

And I think it proves how sexy she is. She can be bald and tortured and still look hot. Go TJ!

I wonder why noone screams about lesbians when you have panels like that. :p

Because they be talkin about men in the very next panel.

[Beast]

Because they be talkin about men in the very next panel.
And? You'd think as often as readers seem to see imaginary lesbians that the dialogue didn't matter.

[Stephane Garrelie]

It was the only pic I had in my photobucket account at the moment as I'm at work ;). I'll scour my photobucket for more though...
For a second i thought you were in SM.;)

Then i didn't understand why you're not more a fan of CC.:p

[Beast]

For a second i thought you were in SM.;)

Then i didn't understand why you're not more a fan of CC.:p
Nice one, nice one. I was going to ask pretty much the same question. ;)

"When Winick did it, it was beautiful!" :D

[Arilou]

And? You'd think as often as readers seem to see imaginary lesbians that the dialogue didn't matter.

Or imaginary gay men? *cough* Iceman *cough*

Naw, just kidding. I don't have an opinion on that one :p

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Because Dazzler is not in them?;)

Ha ha! Good call.:D

[Nachturne]

Nice one, nice one. I was going to ask pretty much the same question. ;)

"When Winick did it, it was beautiful!" :D

So, are you in here to talk about Nocturne or try to point out our "hypocrisy's" and bait for a fight?? Because this thread is about the former.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/NocturneCivil.jpg

I'm still scouring!!

And Stephane.....about the SM...OH wouldnt YOU like to know!! :P

[The Sword Is Drawn]

So, are you in here to talk about Nocturne or try to point out our "hypocrisy's" and bait for a fight?? Because this thread is about the former.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/NocturneCivil.jpg

I'm still scouring!!

And Stephane.....about the SM...OH wouldnt YOU like to know!! :P

Nocturne played no part in Civil War.

[Arilou]

Nocturne played no part in Civil War.

Well, that's the point isn't it?

EDIT: "I'm with Nocturne, an ocean away taking a shower."

[Stephane Garrelie]

And Stephane.....about the SM...OH wouldnt YOU like to know!! :P:evilsmile ;) :p :evilsmile

[Nachturne]

Well, that's the point isn't it?

EDIT: "I'm with Nocturne, an ocean away taking a shower."

hehe exactly!! Gambit didn't either, but it doesn't mean I didn't have fun making this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/GambitCivil.jpg

And she doesn't even EXIST but:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/blahblahcivil.jpg

And hell this isn't even Marvel:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/Jesuscivil.jpg


But they were fun as hell to make

Back to TJ sex!!!!! (SOMEONE needs to scan the stuff from issue 7. REAL TJ sex!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/exiles411.jpg

[Pro]

I wonder why noone screams about lesbians when you have panels like that. :p

Sorry ... i was .. busy ...:o

[Beast]

Or imaginary gay men? *cough* Iceman *cough*

Naw, just kidding. I don't have an opinion on that one :p
Please, everyone knows that Bobby loves the pole. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/iceman04a.jpg

[Beast]

Sorry ... i was .. busy ...:o
You were busy thinking about those imaginary lesbians, weren't you! :D

[Stephane Garrelie]

Well, for me:
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/StephaneGarrelie/cc.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Please, everyone knows that Bobby loves the pole. :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v97/MasterSplinter/iceman04a.jpg

You see! It was there from day one, and I bet it went over all of your heads...!:D

[Nachturne]

A reminder, gentlemen, this is the Nocturne thread. Lets stay on topic :P

How about a sexy photomanip?? (Im like...digging the bottom of my photobucket man):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/remy-tj.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

A reminder, gentlemen, this is the Nocturne thread. Lets stay on topic :P

How about a sexy photomanip?? (Im like...digging the bottom of my photobucket man):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/remy-tj.jpg

But it's pretty good. Don't do yourself down.

[Nachturne]

But it's pretty good. Don't do yourself down.

Do myself down??

[blinkinrogue]

looking back at that pic, i always thought they were wearing a bikini or something...... guess i missed that part hehe

[Stephane Garrelie]

Thats a very good photomanip :)

[Beast]

Do myself down??
British slang. As in, "Don't put yourself down" or "Don't downplay your abilities".

[Nachturne]

looking back at that pic, i always thought they were wearing a bikini or something...... guess i missed that part hehe

You're thinking about the Nocturne arc where they reused that pic but put bikinis on the girls ;). They went native in issue 11.

[Pro]

You were busy thinking about those imaginary lesbians, weren't you!

Did it need spelling out? ;P

looking back at that pic, i always thought they were wearing a bikini or something...... guess i missed that part hehe

Nope, no bikini there, nah uh, nada, zilch, nothing there.

*Checks picture again*

Excuse me .. i have .. stuff to do ..

[Nachturne]

British slang. As in, "Don't put yourself down" or "Don't downplay your abilities".

Im aware of what it means, I just wasn't sure where it seemed like I was putting myself down :confused:

And sorry for the rudeness, I should have included this in the first post.Thank you for the compliment TSID :). And you too Stephane! I have many many more.

[Beast]

Did it need spelling out? ;P



Nope, no bikini there, nah uh, nada, zilch, nothing there.

*Checks picture again*

Excuse me .. i have .. stuff to do ..
Dirty boy! Dirty, dirty, dirty! :evilsmile :D

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Do myself down??

You say you're digging right down to the bottom of your photobucket, but the quality's still good.

Perhaps 'Don't put yourself down' would make more sense stateside?:confused: :D

[Arilou]

looking back at that pic, i always thought they were wearing a bikini or something...... guess i missed that part hehe

Actually you weren't In the original issue they were in the nude, in a later flashback someone pencilled some underwear on them (And yes, that makes absolutely no sense given the context)

[Nachturne]

You say you're digging right down to the bottom of your photobucket, but the quality's still good.

Perhaps 'Don't put yourself down' would make more sense stateside?:confused: :D

LOL no I meant that I was trying to find anything to post. As my photomanips arent really evidence of her sexiness in canon :P. But I still like them, so I post them.

And thanks again!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Back to TJ sex!!!!! (SOMEONE needs to scan the stuff from issue 7. REAL TJ sex!

http://www.geocities.com/caption_britain/ex7_0.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/caption_britain/ex7_1.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/caption_britain/ex7_2.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/caption_britain/ex7_3.jpg

In my defence I am off work, sick, today...

[Novaya Havoc]

Ah, I like the photomanip. Great work!

[Nachturne]

Ah, I like the photomanip. Great work!

Thanks!!!! I posted a few more in the "Draw me X: Nighty/Nocturne" thread.

And very VERY nice TSID. Very nice.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Thanks!!!! I posted a few more in the "Draw me X: Nighty/Nocturne" thread.

And very VERY nice TSID. Very nice.

I had the time on my hands... :D

[Nachturne]

heh, well don't let me stop you TSID ;)

Some NEX sexy (I know, it exists! Crazy!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/newexcalibur84.jpg

I never understood her new costume. Like, the girl is typically wearing next to nothing and suddenly she's all covered up. LAME.

And because Im a girl and I love it:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/Exiles%2016/th_exile1612.jpg (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/Exiles%2016/exile1612.jpg)


(its huge, so click :P)

[ImpulseUCF]

It's somewhat disquieting that you use a panel of torture to show how attractive Nocturne is, but oh well.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a395/Arilou_skiff/NocturneBlink.jpg

This is a much better picture :p (Blink isn't too shabby either...)Wow, look! Bonding and characterization!! In ONE PANEL! It doesn't take 17 issues??

[tetragene]

Wow, look! Bonding and characterization!! In ONE PANEL! It doesn't take 17 issues??

I know, it usually doesn't take 17 issues in most books. Go figure... ;)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I know, it usually doesn't take 17 issues in most books. Go figure... ;)

It doesn't usually take 9 issues to get the regular writer continuing his work on a new title. Big whoop!

[Beast]

It doesn't usually take 9 issues to get the regular writer continuing his work on a new title. Big whoop!
Not to mention the beach issue sure the hell wasn't the first one. ;)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Not to mention the beach issue sure the hell wasn't the first one. ;)

Are you proposing that eXiles isn't 100% original. May the High Lord Winnick strike you down!:mad: :D

[Faded]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/exiles411.jpg

My favorite T.J. image ever (though I did love the braids on her)!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

My favorite T.J. image ever (though I did love the braids on her)!

Yeah. I miss the braids, too.

[Beast]

My favorite T.J. image ever (though I did love the braids on her)!
I liked her on the "Earn your Wings" cover. Lemme dig. :)

http://www.hillcity-comics.com/graphic_novels/new_graphic_novel3789.jpg

[ImpulseUCF]

It doesn't usually take 9 issues to get the regular writer continuing his work on a new title. Big whoop!Winnick had more characterization and interaction in his first two arcs than I've seen in the entirety of NEX.

But yeah, she looked great, too. She acted great. She was a great character. I loved her attitude and sarcasm without being over the top.

[Nachturne]

My Lord did something in the first issue that was sorely needed in NEX but never actually happened. Had the characters like....actually introduce each other to themselves and like...not pretend to be BFF from the get go. You know, even bringing up My Lord in comparrison is ridiculous. There IS no comparrison. He was the best.

And I really never dug *WTF was his name* the guy who did that cover above. I liked his cover for the Nocturne tale, but not for the Earn your Wings cover. I liked Califiore and McKone. Bachalo did some hot looking TJ too.

[Nachturne]

FYI:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/120701exiles7c.jpg

:cool: We need a "makin babies" smilie.

[Novaya Havoc]

RELATED TO THREAD:

Where did the rest of Nocturne's ears go? They're so short in NEX. Are they hidden away with Dazzler's flowing blonde locks?

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

My Lord did something in the first issue that was sorely needed in NEX but never actually happened. Had the characters like....actually introduce each other to themselves and like...not pretend to be BFF from the get go. You know, even bringing up My Lord in comparrison is ridiculous. There IS no comparrison. He was the best.

And yet he failed to make any noticable impact on the Marvel Comics Brand...:rolleyes:

Wonder why that was?:confused:

You can't even compare eXiles and NEX. They're from two totally different schools of thought.

EXile's was character concept driven. There was no setting, or sense of place, as it was. It was just a team of What If...? Characters hamging together, and doing what was asked of them. The characters HAD to push the book forward, because it was a blank canvas with nothing else inherited.

New Excalibur is plot and setting centric - it span out of a BIG Marvel Crossover event, which started the team. The meet and greet happened there, and the series put forward the setting and ongoing plots first. And that's the problem. Because we never got to see anymore than that until #16. The frankly terrible Frank Tieri fill in drove the book into a creative ditch, by refusing to actually tell stories within the setting. And much as though Chris Yost fleshed out the plots Claremont left into proper issues wjhat was missing was the downtime interaction which Claremont usually does so well.

You guys can hate on the man all you like, but you're never going to change the fact that the industry will remember who chris Claremont was in 30 years time. I doubt the same will be said about Winnick.

[Novaya Havoc]

New Excalibur is plot and setting centric - it span out of a BIG Marvel Crossover event, which started the team.

LOLOLOLOL!!!!11!one!

No, seriously. Plot and setting-centric? Because the Shadow X-Men, Warwolves, and ALBION!!!!!1! are the real drive for the readers. Not, like, Dazzler, or Juggernaut, or Nocturne.

Forget that, I want some Roma!

The only real character-driven story to result so far was by that "Terrible Tieri" in his Juggernaut arc. CC had enough issues to set the stage; he failed.

[Nachturne]

NOCTURNE!!! This thread is about NOCTURNEEEEE!!! If you don't have ANYTHING to say about NOCTURNE don't post. My Lord counts, as he is who introduced our beloved Lady to the X-universe.

So quit coming in and crying bashing. If CC was doing anything good with Nocturne we'd be talking about it. But all that's happening is Nocturne fans calling foul and CC fans defending him. I don't care what the man has done in the past, he's not doing anything well right now. And you know what? I will remember Winick and his run on Exiles will always hold a dear place in my heart. And that's far enough for me. Because whether or not anyone else reads it is no skin off my back. They're just missing out on some of the best writing in Xbooks in the past 7 years.

And can we stop boning Tieri for stuff he couldn't control? Going into his run, we KNEW he wasn't going to do anything but keep the book treading water until CC got back, and yet we're all bitching over the fact that he did what he said he was going to do. And he wrote Nocturne really really awesome, so he's A-OK in my book ;).

Now, talk about NOCTURNE

[Flight]

OMGz!!!!~~~~~~~
Nocturne fan(nie)z unite!!!!!~~

I just can't believe someone made a MARVELOUS thread about her!! She's so awesome.
Remember in issue 52 when she defeated the bad guy?! LOLz she roXxX!!!~~

TJ = Tandem Jew. Thats wot me and girlfriendz call her anyway when we have our NOCTURNE?????? club meetingz.

Here's my favez pic of NOCTURNE????????????:

http://www.nightscrawlers.com/forum/images/avatars/X-Men/nocturne2.jpg

It's bangin', Dazzler styleeeeeeeeee!!!

[Beast]

LOLOLOLOL!!!!11!one!

No, seriously. Plot and setting-centric? Because the Shadow X-Men, Warwolves, and ALBION!!!!!1! are the real drive for the readers. Not, like, Dazzler, or Juggernaut, or Nocturne.

Forget that, I want some Roma!

The only real character-driven story to result so far was by that "Terrible Tieri" in his Juggernaut arc. CC had enough issues to set the stage; he failed.
Novaya, those are characters. Not plot or setting. I thought even you got that.

[ImpulseUCF]

Novaya, those are characters. Not plot or setting. I thought even you got that.I think his point is that those who say people are just along for Claremont's super-duper plots are off the mark, and the fan-fave character fanbase are the drawing point for a lot of fans.

Because truthfully, does anyone really care about Shadow X-Men?

And why couldn't CC establish characters and setting within the first 6 or 7 issues he had? Winnick did it. PAD did it in X-Factor. BKV did it in Y: The Last Man. Ennis did it in Preacher. What giveS?

[Tobias March]

Because truthfully, does anyone really care about Shadow X-Men?


Frankly I'd forgotten all about them.

[Nachturne]

Ugh I haaaated her "Nightcrawler Jr" costume. It made sense on her home world, but how did it follow her?? The brown leather was the booooomb.

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

Because truthfully, does anyone really care about Shadow X-Men?

Actually, yeah, I do.

I want to know who the hell employed them, and also why they were so hell-bent on capturing Nocturne in their first appearance.

[Beast]

Actually, yeah, I do.

I want to know who the hell employed them, and also why they were so hell-bent on capturing Nocturne in their first appearance.
Well, she does basically have the same abilities as the Shadow King on some level. ;)

[Novaya Havoc]

I think his point is that those who say people are just along for Claremont's super-duper plots are off the mark, and the fan-fave character fanbase are the drawing point for a lot of fans.

Because truthfully, does anyone really care about Shadow X-Men?

And why couldn't CC establish characters and setting within the first 6 or 7 issues he had? Winnick did it. PAD did it in X-Factor. BKV did it in Y: The Last Man. Ennis did it in Preacher. What giveS?

And there you have it. Thanks, Impulse! :D

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

Well, she does basically have the same abilities as the Shadow King on some level. ;)

Yes and no. Nocturne can only possess one person at a time.

But she does look better naked.

You've got to have some kind of trade off...:rolleyes:

[Beast]

Yes and no. Nocturne can only possess one person at a time.

But she does look better naked.

You've got to have some kind of trade off...:rolleyes:
Let's just pray the Shadow King doesn't get ahold of her.

I love Nocturne, but Fat Noctune... no thanks. :(

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

Let's just pray the Shadow King doesn't get ahold of her.

I love Nocturne, but Fat Noctune... no thanks. :(

Well THANK YOU! That image is going to stay with me!:mad: :D

I think that if TJ is returning to the eXiles fold then she'll inevitably encounter the Shadow King before long. I'd be pretty sure that when Psylocked killed Shadow Xavier the SK was sent back into the multiverse again. And after all eXiles is the Multiverse title.

Maybe we'll find out his reasoning for going after, yet.

[Beast]

Well THANK YOU! That image is going to stay with me!:mad: :D

I think that if TJ is returning to the eXiles fold then she'll inevitably encounter the Shadow King before long. I'd be pretty sure that when Psylocked killed Shadow Xavier the SK was sent back into the multiverse again. And after all eXiles is the Multiverse title.

Maybe we'll find out his reasoning for going after, yet.
You know, a good way to play it off would be to explain that Shadow King wanted to possess her. And then once having control of her and her possession abilities, he could spread his essence by possessing other people through her. Sorta of a twist on the Invasion of the Body Snatchers/Pod People concept. :)

[Apocalypse Now Then!]

You know, a good way to play it off would be to explain that Shadow King wanted to possess her. And then once having control of her and her possession abilities, he could spread his essence by possessing other people through her. Sorta of a twist on the Invasion of the Body Snatchers/Pod People concept. :)

Hadn't thought of that. That'd be a pretty cool idea.

[Nachturne]

Fat Nocturne is the most terrible thing to ever be mentioned and should be banished from this thread.

[Beast]

Fat Nocturne is the most terrible thing to ever be mentioned and should be banished from this thread.
She'd still look hotter than Fat Karma. :)

[Nachturne]

Nocturne is hot period.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/m_27616378ddf4ebe2f327cada8a015e2f.jpg

[Novaya Havoc]

Nocturne is hot period.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/m_27616378ddf4ebe2f327cada8a015e2f.jpg

A hot period? :( While pregnant? :(

[Beast]

A hot period? :( While pregnant? :(
Well, she could be like Nightcrawler. He has the two penis, maybe Nocturne....

[tetragene]

Bring...up...pregnancy/abortion...in...NEX...instead...of...another...lam e..."shadow"...or warwolves...or old-as-methusula Excalibur v. 1 plots....

[Beast]

Bring...up...pregnancy/abortion...in...NEX...instead...of...another...lam e..."shadow"...or warwolves...or old-as-methusula Excalibur v. 1 plots....
Why would it be relevant though? It would be like Dazzler wandering around and mentioning all the men she's had relationships with. If it has something to do with the issue, then sure. Otherwise it's really pointless and random.

[Nachturne]

Why would it be relevant though?

Because its about TJ? And TJ is in NEX?? And anything relevant to her character is relevant to the book she's in?

A hot period? :( While pregnant? :(

It happens. You men have no effing clue. :P

[Beast]

Because its about TJ? And TJ is in NEX?? And anything relevant to her character is relevant to the book she's in?



It happens. You men have no effing clue. :P
But how is it relevant to her character at the moment?

Again, it's random to have her suddenly mention "Hey guys, I lost a baby once! Tee hee, love me."

[Nachturne]

But how is it relevant to her character at the moment?

Again, it's random to have her suddenly mention "Hey guys, I lost a baby once! Tee hee, love me."

Not saying it's relevant at the moment. But aborting a baby (or losing it if we're gonna be super duper canon-correct) will NEVER leave you. It will ALWAYS be with her, and it's not a stretch to believe it'd come back up again. Especially considering the circumstances surrounding it.

[tetragene]

Why would it be relevant though? It would be like Dazzler wandering around and mentioning all the men she's had relationships with. If it has something to do with the issue, then sure. Otherwise it's really pointless and random.

Well, generally when people are getting to know each other--espeically in such close knit things as a team, things like that are shared or referenced. Of course in NEX that hasn't really happened--a member just had a stroke and all of a sudden...bam, they're all just a "family". Mentioning/referencing something like a pregnancy, abortion (and what lead to the aboriton...a "dead" lover) is not completely random. Especially since it'd give new readers an opportunity to learn about her background. The warwolves was random. Sage having clothes with Dazzler's insignia on it was random. Something as personal as an aboriton or a dead lover isn't something that "never comes up"...

[Beast]

Not saying it's relevant at the moment. But aborting a baby (or losing it if we're gonna be super duper canon-correct) will NEVER leave you. It will ALWAYS be with her, and it's not a stretch to believe it'd come back up again. Especially considering the circumstances surrounding it.
Exactly. If it's relevant to the story it could be mentioned. But it's not at the moment, and there's very few instances where it would make sense for her to randomly mention it. If Thunderbird comes back and he asks her about it, then sure... that would be a logical moment. Especially given the fact that he was dreaming about her and the baby and has no clue what really happened. Otherwise, it's sorta random.

[Beast]

Well, generally when people are getting to know each other--espeically in such close knit things as a team, things like that are shared or referenced. Of course in NEX that hasn't really happened--a member just had a stroke and all of a sudden...bam, they're all just a "family". Mentioning/referencing something like a pregnancy, abortion (and what lead to the aboriton...a "dead" lover) is not completely random. Especially since it'd give new readers an opportunity to learn about her background. The warwolves was random. Sage having clothes with Dazzler's insignia on it was random. Something as personal as an aboriton or a dead lover isn't something that "never comes up"...
It's still pretty random. Especially if it's a painful thing for her.

Much like Dazzler doesn't go around whining about Longshot and her lost baby.

[Nachturne]

Exactly. If it's relevant to the story it could be mentioned. But it's not at the moment, and there's very few instances where it would make sense for her to randomly mention it. If Thunderbird comes back and he asks her about it, then sure... that would be a logical moment. Especially given the fact that he was dreaming about her and the baby and has no clue what really happened. Otherwise, it's sorta random.

It's no more random than a stroke. In fact it's way less random because its actually relevant to the character. Something like that coming up again would have been far more moving, as well as relevant to TJ, rather than "it could happen to anyone...and it happened to TJ!"

[tetragene]

It's still pretty random. Especially if it's a painful thing for her.

Much like Dazzler doesn't go around whining about Longshot and her lost baby.

Even though it would have made perfect sense for Dazzler to...y'know...metion it when Nocturne was talking about Mojo and Mojoworld. Since as far as has been established, Dazzler thinks Longshot is dead and Mojoworld was destroyed. Certainly someone talking about having recently been in Mojoworld would...trigger something?

And again, it's not random if there was some actual "getting to know" moments in NEX. If you have to be in a team and operate as a unit (and "family") then very personal stuff like that tends to come up. And even if it doesn't in that situation...she certainly shouldn't be acting so "happy and carefree" given all she's experienced should she?

[Beast]

It's no more random than a stroke. In fact it's way less random because its actually relevant to the character. Something like that coming up again would have been far more moving, as well as relevant to TJ, rather than "it could happen to anyone...and it happened to TJ!"
The stroke actually just happened on panel though. It's not an event from many years ago that has no current bearing on her storyline. And how is it far more moving to refrence something from years ago, over showing someone deal with current hardships. That makes no sense what so ever. May as well have everyone sitting around a table and telling stories in every comic book instead of dealing with current stuff.

[Beast]

Even though it would have made perfect sense for Dazzler to...y'know...metion it when Nocturne was talking about Mojo and Mojoworld. Since as far as has been established, Dazzler thinks Longshot is dead and Mojoworld was destroyed. Certainly someone talking about having recently been in Mojoworld would...trigger something?

And again, it's not random if there was some actual "getting to know" moments in NEX. If you have to be in a team and operate as a unit (and "family") then very personal stuff like that tends to come up. And even if it doesn't in that situation...she certainly shouldn't be acting so "happy and carefree" given all she's experienced should she?
And how does Dazzler know how long ago that Nocturne was there? It could have been before it was destroyed for all she knows. Dazzler doesn't read minds and didn't feel like talking about it. Not to mention didn't the Warwolves attack at the same point that Nocturne was talking about it? I'd have to check.

And why not? Should she become all emo and start cutting herself because she's had a few hardships? Why doesn't she just blow her brains out if life is such a hardship. Because she's a hero and they're made of sterner stuff. They deal with the hardships and move on. If not, everyone in every comic book would be out of their gourds by now. Especially with 40+ years of continuity crammed into 13 years.

[Nachturne]

The stroke actually just happened on panel though. It's not an event from many years ago that has no current bearing on her storyline. And how is it far more moving to refrence something from years ago, over showing someone deal with current hardships. That makes no sense what so ever. May as well have everyone sitting around a table and telling stories in every comic book instead of dealing with current stuff.

DUDE. This is the guy who is telling me ROMA needs to be in Exiles after HOW many years out of the books, and yet TJs "loss" which happened no more than 5 years ago has no bearing? Are you serious??

And the stroke is RANDOM. It had NOTHING to do with TJ except it HAPPENED to her. We could have had a nice play on continuity, and had her deal with her issues being stuck in 616 or even her "lost" baby (which IS canon. It IS canon she "lost" a child. Be it miscarriage or abortion depends on whether or not whoever decides to write that has the balls to really take on a controversial topic). But that HAPPENED. And do not even TELL me that losing a child is not going to stay with someone. Don't even say that, because you have NO clue what you're talking about.

[Flameworthy]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/exiles411.jpg

I have to admit, I'm not a huge Nocturne fan, but that has got to be one of my favorite covers. She looked so good in that costume. Brown is definitely her color.

[tetragene]

And how does Dazzler know how long ago that Nocturne was there? It could have been before it was destroyed for all she knows. Dazzler doesn't read minds and didn't feel like talking about it. Not to mention didn't the Warwolves attack at the same point that Nocturne was talking about it? I'd have to check.

Ergh...no. That happened in the Black Tom issue, when Dazz, Nocturne, and Juggernaut were just sitting around chilling. And I believe Dazzler says "Cain tell me you two were recently in Mojoworld"...so I'm pretty sure she doesn't think it happened before Mojoworld was destroyed (which would mean that Dazzler was IN Mojoworld and more than likely would have known about them being there).

And why not? Should she become all emo and start cutting herself because she's had a few hardships? Why doesn't she just blow her brains out if life is such a hardship. Because she's a hero and they're made of sterner stuff. They deal with the hardships and move on. If not, everyone in every comic book would be out of their gourds by now.

No she shoudn't become all emo, but she shouldn't start acting like a stupid teenage that's fixated on an AU "daddy" either. It makes no sense for her to act that way given what she's experienced. "Oh, I aborted a baby because my lover died and my father is probably dead too since I couldn't carry out my mission as an Exile...why don't I just ignore all of it and dress like a school girl and walk around with my d-pod like a fun-n-fancy-free teen!"

[Beast]

But it has no current bearing and would be random.

Characters don't go walking around refrencing events that happened years ago in the comics every day. So it's silly to think that something that effects noone but her would have any bearing on the rest of the cast.

[Beast]

No she shoudn't become all emo, but she shouldn't start acting like a stupid teenage that's fixated on an AU "daddy" either.
Other than she's been fixated on AU Nightcrawler's since Issue #3 of Exiles. Try again.

[Nachturne]

But wouldnt it be nice if things that happened in the past effected characters in the future!!! God, wouldn't that be a novel idea. What could they call it....OH I know!! CONTINUITY!!!!

There's the story of the book and the team, and then each character has it's own story happening as well. The characters shouldnt suffer for the team (which I fear is happening in NEX), and there's no reason that old issues that have plagued the characters can't come back again. I mean, Betsy is facing off against Slaymaster again in Exiles and will be having to deal with what happened to her the first time. How is that different than TJ having to deal with her past issues? I'm not saying it should happen like..right now. But if it never happens, then whats the point of continuity?

[tetragene]

But weren't you one of the people who was in favor of seeing the "Dazzler OD" thing referenced and touched on in NEX? Abortion which we saw the lead-to and fall-out of > OD that was a one line mention.

And I don't know how often you've been in groups of 5+ people where you'd had to work pretty intimately with them on a routine basis, but take it from someone who has--personal things (completely unrelated to the "group" at large) comes up and is shared. It happens.

[Nachturne]

Other than she's been fixated on AU Nightcrawler's since Issue #3 of Exiles. Try again.

Lies. Oh come on. If YOU had just left your father behind recently and knew you had to fight to save his life, maybe this guy you met would have an impact. And maybe it was used as a device to give us a little backstory about TJ and her relationship with her father (which we got in that scene).

Try again.

[tetragene]

Other than she's been fixated on AU Nightcrawler's since Issue #3 of Exiles. Try again.

Was she acting like a stupid teenager then too? You try again, my friend.

[Beast]

Was she acting like a stupid teenager then too? You try again, my friend.
I've always seen her as coming off as really immature. So yes.

[Nachturne]

I've always seen her as coming off as really immature. So yes.

HA! And you wonder why I don't believe you read Exiles.

[Arilou]

I've always seen her as coming off as really immature. So yes.

Huh, that's odd. She definately never came across as immature to me.

My impression of maturity was always (from most to least) Sasquatch-Blink-TB-Mimic-Nocturne-Sunfire-Morph-Illyana.

[Beast]

HA! And you wonder why I don't believe you read Exiles.
Eh, believe it or not. I can see my stack of trades right here. That's just my interpretation of how she acted in the series. You're welcome to interpret her however you like.

[Nachturne]

Huh, that's odd. She definately never came across as immature to me.

My impression of maturity was always (from most to least) Sasquatch-Blink-TB-Mimic-Nocturne-Sunfire-Morph-Illyana.

I'd agree with that...except i think I'd put TB before Blink. Though I may be mistaking maturity with "sullen"ness

[Brian Cronin]

Play nice, folks.

-Brian

[tangentman]

And? You'd think as often as readers seem to see imaginary lesbians that the dialogue didn't matter.


Given the immediate man-worshipping shot of Naked Mimic Ass immediately afterward, I don't see HOW readers would pick up even imaginary lesbian vibes!

[ImpulseUCF]

I want to know who the hell employed them, and also why they were so hell-bent on capturing Nocturne in their first appearance.Wow, so someone actually liked that. I thought the Shadow King and mind control, dark versions of the X-Men, etc, were interesting the first few dozen times I saw them, but the tired rehash that pales in comparison to the originals don't do much for me.

You know, a good way to play it off would be to explain that Shadow King wanted to possess her. And then once having control of her and her possession abilities, he could spread his essence by possessing other people through her. Sorta of a twist on the Invasion of the Body Snatchers/Pod People concept. :)Old villain, old concepts. Yawn.

Why would it be relevant though? It would be like Dazzler wandering around and mentioning all the men she's had relationships with. If it has something to do with the issue, then sure. Otherwise it's really pointless and random.Pointless and random? TJ's NEX presence and portrayal in a nutshell! :P

[Nachturne]

Heh.

Back to the sex!!!!

Speaking of Lesbians:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/1514578720_l.jpg
*raises brow* But we know TJ likes the gun, even if Mariko is after the holster.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/1565580379_l.jpg

Love love LOVE. The first TJ. Gooooorgeous!

[Nachturne]

RELATED TO THREAD:

Where did the rest of Nocturne's ears go? They're so short in NEX. Are they hidden away with Dazzler's flowing blonde locks?

Heh, I just noticed this!! It was kinda odd that her ears were snipped so short upon heading to 616. I liked her big ears.

And upon rereading some of this stuff, something occured to me. If ANYTHING TJ's abortion/whatever is relevant right now. She just had a stroke they'd be inquiring about her medical history. HELLO!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

And upon rereading some of this stuff, something occured to me. If ANYTHING TJ's abortion/whatever is relevant right now. She just had a stroke they'd be inquiring about her medical history. HELLO!

That's part of why they were trying to contact Nightcrawler. TJ has no official medical records herself on 616, and she could hardly vocalise them to people...:rolleyes:

[Nachturne]

That's part of why they were trying to contact Nightcrawler. TJ has no official medical records herself on 616, and she could hardly vocalise them to people...:rolleyes:

Don't roll your eyes at me. And wtf does Nightcrawler know? I'd get their physiology is similar and calling him for that, but he's not her father and has no more access to her medical history than anyone else on 616. Seeing as the case is what it is, they can do what they can and wait for her to inevitably (because we know she's not going to be a vegetable) gain her speech back and ask pointed questions for her care.

She had a stroke. It's odd that she was never asked for any type of medical history once she regained her ability to communicate. Not only does that make sense logically, but we could have actually seen continuity at work.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I'm wondering after all those exiles pics, and particularly the last one with the lesbian Mariko/Sunfire if Bi-sexual tendencies have been implied for TJ by her former writers?
There for all those that was Winnick, right?
Is she the Hetero girl who like the occasional homo adventure?

[Nachturne]

I'm wondering after all those exiles pics, and particularly the last one with the lesbian Mariko/Sunfire if Bi-sexual tendencies have been implied for TJ by her former writers?
There for all those that was Winnick, right?
Is she the Hetero girl who like the occasional homo adventure?

There have been no bi-sexual tendencies implied for TJ before. That cover had like, nothing to do what was in the issue (I remember taking note that the cover was way lez and the issue was way not :P). I don't think it's outright impossible, but I'd like a bit of explanation before her and Ali start lezzing out.

[Beast]

Don't roll your eyes at me. And wtf does Nightcrawler know? I'd get their physiology is similar and calling him for that, but he's not her father and has no more access to her medical history than anyone else on 616. Seeing as the case is what it is, they can do what they can and wait for her to inevitably (because we know she's not going to be a vegetable) gain her speech back and ask pointed questions for her care.

She had a stroke. It's odd that she was never asked for any type of medical history once she regained her ability to communicate. Not only does that make sense logically, but we could have actually seen continuity at work.
His biology is similar, hence why they were trying to get ahold of him. Plus they were close, hence contacting Kurt in case she didn't get better. Just because he's not her real father doesn't mean they don't care for each other. They're still family, in a weird alternate reality sort of way.

You do also realize that stuff happens off panel, right. Characters don't just stop doing things as soon as they're off panel. Such as people filliing out medical forms with their medical history. Cause you know, several pages of filling out paperwork would be thrilling to read. Be still my heart. I don't think I could take it. ;)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Don't roll your eyes at me.

Oh, come on. What else is the natural response to give to somebody who seems thoroughly determined to go out of their way to find any fault they conceivably can in a story, just because they feel violated by a writer not attending to every last minute detail of Nocturne's complete back history...?

And wtf does Nightcrawler know? I'd get their physiology is similar and calling him for that, but he's not her father and has no more access to her medical history than anyone else on 616.

Well, genetically I think it's fairly safe to assume that Nighcrawler is going to be a pretty damn near a complete genetic match to her father for one. And since coming to 616, like it or not, he has kind of played the role of father. Blame Chuck Austen for that.

Seeing as the case is what it is, they can do what they can and wait for her to inevitably (because we know she's not going to be a vegetable) gain her speech back and ask pointed questions for her care.

She had a stroke. It's odd that she was never asked for any type of medical history once she regained her ability to communicate. Not only does that make sense logically, but we could have actually seen continuity at work.

Not being funny here, but those are the kind of 'boring details' that so many people criticise Chris Claremont for going into when some people deem them unnecesary. You really can't have it both ways at once...:rolleyes:

[Nachturne]

His biology is similar, hence why they were trying to get ahold of him. Plus they were close, hence contacting Kurt in case she didn't get better. Just because he's not her real father doesn't mean they don't care for each other. They're still family, in a weird alternate reality sort of way.

You do also realize that stuff happens off panel, right. Characters don't just stop doing things as soon as they're off panel. Such as people filliing out medical forms with their medical history. Cause you know, several pages of filling out paperwork would be thrilling to read. Be still my heart. I don't think I could take it. ;)

Yeah I get the whole contacting Nioghtcrawler thing. Hence what I said above.

And yes, I realise stuff happens off panel. In EVERY book written, not just the ones Claremont writes ;). And I don't think we need TJ filling out paperwork, but I'm just refuting your claim that TJ's abortion/whatever is irrelevant at this time. It's COMPLETELY relevant, because the girl just had a huge medical event and her medical history would then become relevant.

Do you typically like..pick apart little irrelevant bits of the other persons point when your point is pwned?

Edited to add crap for TSID:

Dude....ugh. I don't even know where to begin. I'm not trying to find fault in every little piece of Claremont's writing, it just happens to find me. My point is that TJ's abortion/whatever is NOT irrelevant. Thats it. Im not trying to pick apart Claremont's writing, but you guys really help us find inconsitensies with your need to defend what isn't even being attacked. This wasn't about Claremonts writing, this was about Beast's point that TJ's abortion/whatever is irrelevant. It's not.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Do you typically like..pick apart little irrelevant bits of the other persons point when your point is pwned?

And so the pot turned to the kettl, and then said...:D

Edited to add crap for TSID:

Dude....ugh. I don't even know where to begin. I'm not trying to find fault in every little piece of Claremont's writing, it just happens to find me. My point is that TJ's abortion/whatever is NOT irrelevant. Thats it. Im not trying to pick apart Claremont's writing, but you guys really help us find inconsitensies with your need to defend what isn't even being attacked. This wasn't about Claremonts writing, this was about Beast's point that TJ's abortion/whatever is irrelevant. It's not.

You're complaint came across as being thay you were irritated that we didn't see her precise medical details being taken down. You may not have meant it that way, but it really came across as nit-picking in light of some of the ranting you've been having these past few days...

[Arilou]

I'm wondering after all those exiles pics, and particularly the last one with the lesbian Mariko/Sunfire if Bi-sexual tendencies have been implied for TJ by her former writers?
There for all those that was Winnick, right?
Is she the Hetero girl who like the occasional homo adventure?

The latter picture was actually an Austen cover (Heresy I know, but Austens run on Exiles wasn't that bad, not good by any means, but decent, it brought us Psycho-Illyana after all....)

And no, she was always being presented as heterosexual (very much so indeed)

[Nachturne]

And so the pot turned to the kettl, and then said...:D

:rolleyes:


You're complaint came across as being thay you were irritated that we didn't see her precise medical details being taken down. You may not have meant it that way, but it really came across as nit-picking in light of some of the ranting you've been having these past few days...


No, did you even read the first post I made regarding this?? Should I bring it in??

And upon rereading some of this stuff, something occured to me. If ANYTHING TJ's abortion/whatever is relevant right now. She just had a stroke they'd be inquiring about her medical history. HELLO!

That is very clearly in reference to the argument that was had with Beast about the relevance of TJs abortion/whatever in the comics now. You guys all have to get up in arms like CC is getting attacked with every post I make and suddenly were trying to defend nothing. I don't think CC has to deal with her abortion and I'd prefer if he didn't. But saying it's irrelevant is flat out wrong, because her entire medical history is relevant right now. That's what it all is.

This whole argument had nothing to do with CC's writing. I have no idea why you guys tried to make it about it. YOU were the ones who tried to explain why it wasn't in the book. I didn't even try to say it had to be there. I was just refuting Beast's point.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I'm not saying that the abortion/miscarraige is not relevent. At no point have I said this.

You're point is valid. But you had to tack on another little swipe at the writer, onto the end, with the medical notes comment, didn't you?:rolleyes:

[Nachturne]

I'm not saying that the abortion/miscarraige is not relevent. At no point have I said this.

You're point is valid. But you had to tack on another little swipe at the writer, onto the end, with the medical notes comment, didn't you?:rolleyes:

Oh jesus, you guys are LOOKING for swipes at Claremont. That wasn't a swipe. YOU guys brought Claremont into it, and you know what? It is logical she'd be questioned about her medical history, and in that the abortion could have come up, and we could have had some real relevant character development. Is it like...bad for me to want TJ's history to be a part of who she is? And more than just a flashback? Like, why is it bad to expect that she is effected by her past?

And I never said YOU said it was irrelevant, in fact I mentioned several times that was Beast's point. But as you put yourself in the argument defending that side, you became a part of it.

Now that we're on agreement that her abortion was relevant, can we move on?? This thread is about NOCTURNE, I want to stop talking about who is or isn't taking swipes at Claremont.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Oh jesus, you guys are LOOKING for swipes at Claremont. That wasn't a swipe. YOU guys brought Claremont into it, and you know what? It is logical she'd be questioned about her medical history, and in that the abortion could have come up, and we could have had some real relevant character development. Is it like...bad for me to want TJ's history to be a part of who she is? And more than just a flashback? Like, why is it bad to expect that she is effected by her past?

Maybe thast would have been a good idea. I don't think it would have advanced the story anywhere in particular, but then it might not even have come to mind to TJ - it was a long ytime ago now.

Now that we're on agreement that her abortion was relevant, can we move on?? This thread is about NOCTURNE, I want to stop talking about who is or isn't taking swipes at Claremont.

I think that is probably for the best.

[Nachturne]

Maybe thast would have been a good idea. I don't think it would have advanced the story anywhere in particular, but then it might not even have come to mind to TJ - it was a long ytime ago now.


Tehnically, taking into account Marvel time, it really wasn't that long ago. And trust me...please....trust me. You do not forget something like that. It doesn't ever slip your mind.

I'm not saying at all it had to be dealt with. Had it been, it would have made sense in the context of the story, and given us some great character development. But I never said it had to. And it wasn't, which is probably for the best anyhow.

[ImpulseUCF]

Maybe thast would have been a good idea. I don't think it would have advanced the story anywhere in particular, but then it might not even have come to mind to TJ - it was a long ytime ago now.I would like to make an observation. Please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken. The majority of your posts seem to come back to the focus of the story, the plot, the events that are happening. Things like TJ's medical history, the abortion having long-lasting phsycial/emotional impact are not plot elements, but they add to the richness of the characters, background, and interaction, which is just as critical as the plot. In fact, in many cases, the plot is just a vehicle by which the characters interact. This enhances that human quality in the work and makes it more deep, impactful and relate able.

I guess my point is long-term emotional consistency and characterization add to personality and improve the overall experience while maybe not necessarily advancing the plot forward. The plot is, after all, merely a tool or medium for delivering a story. Focusing on plot alone is certainly one way to tell a story that is often utilized in "brainless action movies" or "popcorn flicks." Stories that tie in the human element tend to have much more longevity and appeal.

e.g. Terminator 2 vs Terminator 3. T2 was an emotionally charged, insightful character study seeing how John Connor reacted to the weight of his reality, how Sarah Connor adapted to the juxtaposition of the good Terminator looking like the "evil" one that murdered her baby' daddy and tried to kill her. T2 is largely considered a masterpiece of its genre, a timeless classic that literally changed the way action and sci-fi movies were told for nearly a decade.

T3 was cheap thrills, one liners, and explosions and utterly disposable.

BTW, I'm definitely digging the increased level of civility around here :). Not that you were responsible for most of it, Sword. Your posts are usually pretty well-reasoned and chill.

[tetragene]

Just a query...wasn't the "eye-rolling smilie" pointed out to be "against the forum rules" by Beast? You've kinda been abusing it, TSID.

Good, well thought out points as usual, Impulse. I don't think character-specific elements or experiences should be shoe-horned into discussions or into a character's exchanges with another, but teams are like a tight-knit family (at least in most cases). Generally people in a team will relay life stories and personal experiences/tragedies when they are getting to know their other teammates. Kind of like a "campfire" life discussion--everyone is going around sharing intimate details about themselves--it adds trust and cohesion and familiarity within the group. Granted, NEX has had little to none of this--we just know that they're a "team...a family" as of the latest issue. But, if they were given a real "learning about these strangers I'm now working with on a routine basis" story/exchange, then those events in TJ's life would surely come up. And it'd be the perfect opportunity to shed some light on these character's backstories...since for a "new" book with almost all characters having previously been in limbo (one for 15+ years!) we haven't gotten much of that either.

[Nachturne]

Totally agreed.

[not an attack on Claremont]It'd be really nice to see the team just chill without anything catastrophic happening where we can learn some background. I mean, Dazzler, Pete and Cap B been out of the books for how long, TJ would only be known to those who read Exiles, Sage...I know nothing about Sage. Juggs the only one who's been in the main books recently. It'd be nice for some real character interation and development that doesn't involve big events either personal to the character, or the team has to go fight someone. I think we sorely need to find out who the characters are, because as of now, it's been 17 issues and I still don't know anything about Sage. I'm not even sure I get how her power works[/not an attack on Claremont]

[AuroraNstar]

Wow. The Claremont groupies are really vocal on these boards. I don't have anything against the man, other than maybe he should have retired already. I don't really find his T.J. very consistant with how Winick and Bedard has portrayed her in the past, I kinda wish Bedard would have picked up New Exc. when he went on his medical. It might have felt like I was reading about the same character from eXiles.

[Nachturne]

Wow. The Claremont groupies are really vocal on these boards. I don't have anything against the man, other than maybe he should have retired already. I don't really find his T.J. very consistant with how Winick and Bedard has portrayed her in the past, I kinda wish Bedard would have picked up New Exc. when he went on his medical. It might have felt like I was reading about the same character from eXiles.

Preach on sister christian. I find that most people I talk to agree on this that Nocturne is definately different under CC's pen.

[Nachturne]

Super suteness I got from Giarusso in 04:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/Nacht714/SDCC%2004/12of12.jpg?t=1174718616

And he gave it to me half price ;). It pays to be a hot chick at comic con :P

[CmX]

RELATED TO THREAD:Where did the rest of Nocturne's ears go? They're so short in NEX.

Calafiore wonders the same thing.

[CmX]

The brown leather was the booooomb.

Uh yeah it was! I'm tired of this "leather/studded punk rock" crap she's flaunting over in Excalibur.

I just think Ryan is horrible at re-designs, decent artist though but not so much in the designing department. i.e., NEX's Dazz and Sage, barf!

[Novaya Havoc]

Uh yeah it was! I'm tired of this "leather/studded punk rock" crap she's flaunting over in Excalibur.

I just think Ryan is horrible at re-designs, decent artist though but not so much in the designing department. i.e., NEX's Dazz and Sage, barf!

Ryan's said Claremont wanted the designs the way they are.

I'm sure Eaton would have changed Dazzler by now if given the option otherwise.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

So CC is moving Nocturne back into the Exiles again ? I really enjoyed her team chemistry in New Excalibur. I'd hate to see them rush and move her back. I enjoy the stroke storyline for the most part. Least it dedicates a story-arc to her.

[Flameworthy]

Ryan's said Claremont wanted the designs the way they are.


That man just infuriates me sometimes. I honestly think he gets a kick out making Dazzler and her fans look like fools.

[Mariah]

Ryan's said Claremont wanted the designs the way they are.

I'm sure Eaton would have changed Dazzler by now if given the option otherwise.
Yuck. The man needs to find better hookers to drum out his inspiration for Alison. The $1.99 ones are not working.

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

I'm TOTALLY the one to attack Claremont so....I think Nocturne should've stayed with the eXiles or had some spin off book with Califorie....I LOVED his little story in eXiles and it came straight out of his Milennial visions.

I get the feeling that Claremont is going to destroy everything about eXiles and just transfer everything over from NEX...and make it New New New Excalibur-Iles, which is BS...BRING BACK WINNICK

[CmX]

So CC is moving Nocturne back into the Exiles again ? I really enjoyed her team chemistry in New Excalibur. I'd hate to see them rush and move her back. I enjoy the stroke storyline for the most part. Least it dedicates a story-arc to her.

Rush her back to Exiles? She hasn't been an Exile for quite awhile.

Exiles or NEX she'll still be written by Claremont which means she'll still be running around with her d-pod and leather boots while saying shit like "Gurrrrll you so crazy!"

[The Sword Is Drawn]

So CC is moving Nocturne back into the Exiles again ? I really enjoyed her team chemistry in New Excalibur. I'd hate to see them rush and move her back. I enjoy the stroke storyline for the most part. Least it dedicates a story-arc to her.

I kinda feel this way too. I was enjoying her chemistry with Cap, Cain and even Sage more recemtly. If she's going I'm a bit disappointed. But at least she'll be on the book for most of the rest of 2007.

For the die hard Nocturne fans I have just begun re-reading eXiles to try and 'get' whaty you guys are thinking about Nocturne. So far I'm only 5 issues in, but by and large the only real difference I'm seeing is that she's a bit more predatory with her sexuality. Otherwise I'm not actually seeing THAT much difference.

[CmX]

So far I'm only 5 issues in, but by and large the only real difference I'm seeing is that she's a bit more predatory with her sexuality. Otherwise I'm not actually seeing THAT much difference.

Wait a bit you'll see what we mean. :)

[Nachturne]

I'm TOTALLY the one to attack Claremont so....I think Nocturne should've stayed with the eXiles or had some spin off book with Califorie....I LOVED his little story in eXiles and it came straight out of his Milennial visions.

I get the feeling that Claremont is going to destroy everything about eXiles and just transfer everything over from NEX...and make it New New New Excalibur-Iles, which is BS...BRING BACK WINNICK

WOOOO WELCOME TO CBR BABY!

And agreed 50000000000%. A spin off with Califiore set in her home world would have been FAB. Honestly, her world kicks ASS, and had some AWESOME characters. Colossus Phoenix? Plague? Armageddon?? And Wolverine as "Prof X"? Hear my prayer Marvel!!

And yes, I'd seriously get on my knees all around Marvel if they brought Winick back and gave him TJ. It'd never happen which is why I make such a promise as that, but still!!

Also: Keep reading TSID. The first 5 issues have nothing on the rest. Once you get to 16, you'll know EXACTLY what we're talking about. And besides, it's a flipping AMAZING read.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Also: Keep reading TSID. The first 5 issues have nothing on the rest. Once you get to 16, you'll know EXACTLY what we're talking about. And besides, it's a flipping AMAZING read.

Oh I have read them all before, but in dribs and drabs, and quite a long while ago now.

I'm going to keep on going, yes. The first couple of arcs seem a bit clunky on many levels. They didn't feel that way the first time around...:(

[ImpulseUCF]

For the die hard Nocturne fans I have just begun re-reading eXiles to try and 'get' whaty you guys are thinking about Nocturne. So far I'm only 5 issues in, but by and large the only real difference I'm seeing is that she's a bit more predatory with her sexuality. Otherwise I'm not actually seeing THAT much difference.Good for you! You'll be glad you did. A good writer/artist combo works wonders.

I think you'll notice the difference unless you're specifically forcing yourself to approach it skeptically, consciously or not. Look at the way she speaks, her mannerisms, poise, posture, etc. A lot of those cues come from the writer, and the combo of Caliafore/Winnick was stellar. Notice that she can still sound young, hip, sassy and funny without being written like a teeny-bopper.

I think you'll see.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Certainly from a physical point of view there is a world of difference. There always was. Exiles TJ (Which was not her original incarnation) Was much more young adult. Slender and athletic. She carried herself very confidently, too, making no apology for her sexuality, but certainly not flaunting it.

The problem, as I have always seen it, in New Excalibur is that physically Nocturne was redesigned so very differently. When she returned in the pages of Uncanny at least TJ still looked like her eXiles self. Michael Ryan's redesign did confuse me from the first release of the cover art for #1. From that moment while the pose TJ was in was familliar the look, size and physique was definitely not.

Ryan drew her very much more 'pudgy' for want of a better word. She was drawn much younger, as a teenager with puppy fat. And while that did improve a little as he continued on the series, he still couldn't get it right. Calafiore did, naturally, when filling in, and Eaton too, but as with the majority of the New Excalibur cast Michael Ryan was the wrong man for the job. I'm sure he'll be fine drawing teenagers on Runaways, but all of his New Excalibur characters were just a little too cartoony to be taken seriously.

TJ needs to be athletic, first and foremost.

[ImpulseUCF]

Certainly from a physical point of view there is a world of difference. There always was. Exiles TJ (Which was not her original incarnation) Was much more young adult. Slender and athletic. She carried herself very confidently, too, making no apology for her sexuality, but certainly not flaunting it.

The problem, as I have always seen it, in New Excalibur is that physically Nocturne was redesigned so very differently. When she returned in the pages of Uncanny at least TJ still looked like her eXiles self. Michael Ryan's redesign did confuse me from the first release of the cover art for #1. From that moment while the pose TJ was in was familliar the look, size and physique was definitely not.

Ryan drew her very much more 'pudgy' for want of a better word. She was drawn much younger, as a teenager with puppy fat. And while that did improve a little as he continued on the series, he still couldn't get it right. Calafiore did, naturally, when filling in, and Eaton too, but as with the majority of the New Excalibur cast Michael Ryan was the wrong man for the job. I'm sure he'll be fine drawing teenagers on Runaways, but all of his New Excalibur characters were just a little too cartoony to be taken seriously.

TJ needs to be athletic, first and foremost.100% agreement there. Also, the combination of visuals and writing created a very specific portrayal of the character. Change one or the other, and it will suffer. Again, a lot of those cues come from the writer and not just the artist.

[jarrod]

Ryan's said Claremont wanted the designs the way they are.
Claremont tends to give broad suggestions, more to do with overall presentation and feel than literally saying "I want pink dyke hair and chaps!". I'd like to know exactly what Claremont asked of Ryan before placing the onus of blame on him for the frankly terrible Ryan NEX designs... besides which, Eaton's few reworkings so far (Sage & Nocturne) are already worlds better so that alone casts some doubt on Claremont wanting the designs as they are...

A good example of typical Claremont design work was with Alan Davis on the original Excalibur, where he asked Alan to present Kitty as "a young Katherine Hepburn". Alan stretched her face slightly, looking a bit more regal, flattened her wild curls, and tweaked the Shadowcat costume to flow more, with more resemblance to fabric than leather. Claremont wanted Rachel to display a "burgeoning unconscious sexulaity" and return to the hound outfit, so Alan took that suggestion, buffed out the previously skinny teenage Rachel, gave her strong thighs and plump breasts and tweaked the Phoenix costume to red leather rather than black, showing off her new found musculature. Claremont tends to give a lot of room to his artists, he seems more of collaborator with more mind on general aesthetic and feel than minute detail... sounds a bit like Ryan's passing the buck for his own tamely medicore work.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

100% agreement there. Also, the combination of visuals and writing created a very specific portrayal of the character. Change one or the other, and it will suffer. Again, a lot of those cues come from the writer and not just the artist.

To a degree, yes. However, Ryan did a great disservice to practically every character on the book, with his art. It's not just Nocturne. The 'Leather Boy' Dazzler, The 'pinched witch' Sage, 'Utility belt' Captain Britain, 'Schoolboy' Wisdom... the list goes on. He was just a bad fit for the book. Plain and simple.

Two issues of Scott Eaton alone have suited its tone better. And his redesign of Nocturne is infinitely better than anything Ryan came up with.

I also don't think it helped that Ryan only had Claremont to guide him for the first three issues, and some of issue 6. That was the only contact he had with him. It really was a very fragmented first year. But certain parts of that first arc weren't utterly awful TJ wise. Shown fronting her band, in her mind, she actually didn't look too bad.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

sounds a bit like Ryan's passing the buck for his own tamely medicore work.

He's always been a bit hit or miss. He's very art nouveau in his styling. Give him a woman with long flowing hair and he'll draw her beautifully. Take away the hair and she'll look like a man :(

[Mariah]

He's always been a bit hit or miss. He's very art nouveau in his styling. Give him a woman with long flowing hair and he'll draw her beautifully. Take away the hair and she'll look like a man :(
That's not true. His Pixie was cute.

[jarrod]

He's always been a bit hit or miss. He's very art nouveau in his styling. Give him a woman with long flowing hair and he'll draw her beautifully. Take away the hair and she'll look like a man :(
I'd have to agree... I haven't really been happy with his overall work since his surprisngly good stint on Cable with Weinberg. NXM and NEX were both a pretty firm "miss" imo.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

His Nocturne could be described as 'cute' also. But it doesn't mean that it was right.

Nocturne's not cute. Well okay, yeah she is. But primarily she outwardly exudes sexuality. On a Psylocke kind of level - although in not quite as direct a way.

Ryan showed none of that in his work on her.

[Nachturne]

TJ is and has always been The SEX. Not just in the way she's drawn but how she's written. Not so much in NEX, and it's not just Ryan. Like...come on. The boys comment with all the hearts when TJ and Ali were at the bike shop? TJ is WAY more forward than sitting back with a silly shy smile while the "boys" all work around her.

[Beast]

TJ is and has always been The SEX. Not just in the way she's drawn but how she's written. Not so much in NEX, and it's not just Ryan. Like...come on. The boys comment with all the hearts when TJ and Ali were at the bike shop? TJ is WAY more forward than sitting back with a silly shy smile while the "boys" all work around her.
But... but... I thought she lost the love of her life and it should effect how she acts?

So which is it? Should she be back to trampy or more reserved now?

[ImpulseUCF]

But... but... I thought she lost the love of her life and it should effect how she acts?

So which is it? Should she be back to trampy or more reserved now?
Reserved and distant does not equal shy and gushing like a teeny-bopper in puppy-love. You know, adults act like adults. Try it.

[Nachturne]

But... but... I thought she lost the love of her life and it should effect how she acts?

So which is it? Should she be back to trampy or more reserved now?

Dude, don't post here. All your trying to do is pick fights. Because ^^ that doesn't even make any sense.

However, I can tell you she shouldn't be a 16 year old teeny bopper. So basically, she should be anything but how CC is depicting her.

[Beast]

Who's trying to pick fights? I'm disagreeing with your points.

You really shouldn't read into the motivations of other posters. Lord Cronin said so.

[Nachturne]

Who's trying to pick fights? I'm disagreeing with your points.

You really shouldn't read into the motivations of other posters. Lord Cronin said so.

ZOMG!!!

You're disagreeing with like...no basis to disagree. You're not bringing any counterpoints to the table to discuss, just trying to unsuccessfully poke holes in our points without having the means to do so. If you have a counterpoint, please, share and we'll discuss.

What I don't get: Why the blind CC defense? Here we have a thread full of people who are disliking CC's depiction of her, with the exception of like...2 or three posters. I don't get why you can't just like..for a second..wonder if maybe...maybe CC is miswriting her.

[jarrod]

What I don't get: Why the blind CC defense?
Likely due to the generally blind CC offense... though I'd have to agree it largely fits with his portrayal of Nocturne, who seemes to have regressed a bit to more fit CC's preferred team roles. Again, same thing happened to Rachel in Uncanny (and to a worse degree arguably).

[CmX]

But... but... I thought she lost the love of her life and it should effect how she acts?

So which is it? Should she be back to trampy or more reserved now?

You can't say you came in here for the sake of opinion you came in here obviously to pick at Nachturne with your patronizing comment. Trying to make her contradict herself.

[Beast]

You can't say you came in here for the sake of opinion you came in here obviously to pick at Nachturne with your patronizing comment. Trying to make her contradict herself.
I don't have to try to do anything. The contradictions already exist.

[CmX]

Perhaps in your own little world they do.

Care to continue to go into circles?

[Daithi]

I'd have to agree it largely fits with his portrayal of Nocturne, who seemes to have regressed a bit to more fit CC's preferred team roles. Again, same thing happened to Rachel in Uncanny (and to a worse degree arguably).

Aye, Nocturne is basically a Rachel Grey redux. The same teen behaviour. The been showed up by other members of the team. Her substituting her real parents with an alternate universe equivalent.
" I want my mommy/daddy"!

[jarrod]

Aye, Nocturne is basically a Rachel Grey redux. The same teen behaviour. The been showed up by other members of the team. Her substituting her real parents with an alternate universe equivalent.
" I want my mommy/daddy"!
Interestingly, I find Rachel and T.J.'s previous interpretations to be a bit similar as well (outwardly sexual, highly confident, resourcefully tough, etc). Both grew up a bit too fast I guess...

[Nachturne]

I just want my girl to be cool again :(. I miss her being kick ass.

[ImpulseUCF]

Interestingly, I find Rachel and T.J.'s previous interpretations to be a bit similar as well (outwardly sexual, highly confident, resourcefully tough, etc). Both grew up a bit too fast I guess......until CC started writing them, whereby they start behaving like OOC children. Yay!

[jarrod]

...until CC started writing them, whereby they start behaving like OOC children. Yay!
Well Rachel's portrayal's exceedingly bizarre because Claremont established her previous incarntion in early Excalibur. Evidently Novaya's theory on CC automatically disregarding any previous writer's work extends to himself also. ;)

[Daithi]

Well Rachel's portrayal's exceedingly bizarre because Claremont established her previous incarntion in early Excalibur. Evidently Novaya's theory on CC automatically disregarding any previous writer's work extends to himself also. ;)

I think it's more that Claremont has got to a point where he has roles for everyone and will put a character into one without a second thought. The teen character is the most notable though.

[ImpulseUCF]

Well Rachel's portrayal's exceedingly bizarre because Claremont established her previous incarntion in early Excalibur. Evidently Novaya's theory on CC automatically disregarding any previous writer's work extends to himself also. ;)Heheh. I don't create the facts; I just call them.

[jarrod]

I think it's more that Claremont has got to a point where he has roles for everyone and will put a character into one without a second thought. The teen character is the most notable though.
Agreed. I'd have rather he brought in an unused younger character (like Jubes or Husk) or just created a new one himself. Tangerine's gotta show up one of these days, right?

[Nachturne]

Heheh. I don't create the facts; I just call them.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

You called it baby :D

[CmX]

Aye, Nocturne is basically a Rachel Grey redux. The same teen behaviour. The been showed up by other members of the team. Her substituting her real parents with an alternate universe equivalent.
" I want my mommy/daddy"!

Daithi makes me get butterflies in my stomach. :o

[Ice_Cold_Emma_Frost]

I hope its the good kind of butterflies and not the Mothra kind of butterflies

[jarrod]

Daithi makes me get butterflies in my stomach. :o
Well, he's almost always consistantly right. Also, bonus points for saying "Aye".

[CmX]

The "aye" really did it for me haha

[Gene M.]

I wonder why noone screams about lesbians when you have panels like that. :p
Don't worry. I screamed. Screamed furiously at God above. WHY GOD? WHY WOULD YOU ALLOW THIS?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

A question for you all. How is Nocturne's mooning over an alternate dimension Nightcrawler in eXiles' second story arc, the Dark Phoenix replay one - who looks nothing like her real father, sounds nothing like her real father, and has only a small amount of the ability with his powers as her real father - and sitting with him after he has sparked into unconsciousness saying "I'm so sorry Daddy" out of character with either Chuck Austen's or Chris Claremont's portrayal of the character?

Discuss.:D

[Beast]

A question for you all. How is Nocturne's mooning over an alternate dimension Nightcrawler in eXiles' second story arc, the Dark Phoenix replay one - who looks nothing like her real father, sounds nothing like her real father, and has only a small amount of the ability with his powers as her real father - and sitting with him after he has sparked into unconsciousness saying "I'm so sorry Daddy" out of character with either Chuck Austen's or Chris Claremont's portrayal of the character?

Discuss.:D
Because... ummm, err... it was Winick! Hehehehehe. :p

[Dizzy D]

A question for you all. How is Nocturne's mooning over an alternate dimension Nightcrawler in eXiles' second story arc, the Dark Phoenix replay one - who looks nothing like her real father, sounds nothing like her real father, and has only a small amount of the ability with his powers as her real father - and sitting with him after he has sparked into unconsciousness saying "I'm so sorry Daddy" out of character with either Chuck Austen's or Chris Claremont's portrayal of the character?

Discuss.:D

Because at that point the Exiles were still inexperienced and still thinking of alternate reality versions of people they knew as the same: see also freeing Charles Xavier in the first arc and the problems all had with the idea of killing Jean in the second. After a few missions or so, they all learned the hard way that alternate reality counterparts are not the same. It's called character growth.

[Nachturne]

Because at that point the Exiles were still inexperienced and still thinking of alternate reality versions of people they knew as the same: see also freeing Charles Xavier in the first arc and the problems all had with the idea of killing Jean in the second. After a few missions or so, they all learned the hard way that alternate reality counterparts are not the same. It's called character growth.

You rock my socks! :D

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Because at that point the Exiles were still inexperienced and still thinking of alternate reality versions of people they knew as the same: see also freeing Charles Xavier in the first arc and the problems all had with the idea of killing Jean in the second. After a few missions or so, they all learned the hard way that alternate reality counterparts are not the same. It's called character growth.

I would debate that her current portrayal does fit in with this exact same behaviour pattern, though. Once again TJ found herself on totally insecure and unknown ground and this resulted in her accidentally - just for a moment - think of Kurt as her 'Daddy' during a phone conversation, and crying for her 'Daddy' as she suffered a stroke. It's not so much an OOC moment as reverting to her more childlike side in a really weird situation for her.

[jarrod]

By the same token though, TJ's spent quite a bit more time with 616 Kurt... it's not surprising she might feel something for him, she's not world hopping anymore and for better or worse, the two forming some sort of relationship makes a degree of sense.

[Beast]

Because at that point the Exiles were still inexperienced and still thinking of alternate reality versions of people they knew as the same: see also freeing Charles Xavier in the first arc and the problems all had with the idea of killing Jean in the second. After a few missions or so, they all learned the hard way that alternate reality counterparts are not the same. It's called character growth.
Sounds like a stretch. Given it's been mentioned in Exiles that they've only been doing this about a year.

[Nachturne]

I would debate that her current portrayal does fit in with this exact same behaviour pattern, though. Once again TJ found herself on totally insecure and unknown ground and this resulted in her accidentally - just for a moment - think of Kurt as her 'Daddy' during a phone conversation, and crying for her 'Daddy' as she suffered a stroke. It's not so much an OOC moment as reverting to her more childlike side in a really weird situation for her.

I will give you this....however, what makes it so OOC is that she's being written so terribly otherwise. Were it an isolated incident, it could be overlooked/accepted, however considering the rest...no dice.

[Pach!]

And you don't grow in a year? Actually time is rather irrelevant, with the amount of times they have had to kill a friend, free an enemy ,etc. they understood that those are not their realities.

[Dizzy D]

I would debate that her current portrayal does fit in with this exact same behaviour pattern, though. Once again TJ found herself on totally insecure and unknown ground and this resulted in her accidentally - just for a moment - think of Kurt as her 'Daddy' during a phone conversation, and crying for her 'Daddy' as she suffered a stroke. It's not so much an OOC moment as reverting to her more childlike side in a really weird situation for her.

I have to disagree; there is no pattern here. It wasn't just T.J., all of the group (except Blink) had problems seperating the people they knew and their alternate reality versions for understable reasons, that's why they made Blink the leader, she didn't have those pre-conceptions. I don't see how reverting to a childlike side comes into it.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I have to disagree; there is no pattern here. It wasn't just T.J., all of the group (except Blink) had problems seperating the people they knew and their alternate reality versions for understable reasons, that's why they made Blink the leader, she didn't have those pre-conceptions. I don't see how reverting to a childlike side comes into it.

Sorry Dizzy D, I was refering to TJ's recebt appearances in New Excalibur, not to her eXiles appearances.

[jarrod]

Do I need to repeat myself? What exactly is so OOC with TJ forming a familial relationship with Kurt given (A) she's been in 616 awhile and expects to stay here until who knows when and (B) he's encouraging and supporting it? This isn't exactly like the Exiles setup, so why should her response be the same?

[Dizzy D]

Sounds like a stretch. Given it's been mentioned in Exiles that they've only been doing this about a year.

A year of non-stop missions in incredibly hostile territory (killer Xavier, Skrull-world, Mojoverse) with teammates dying left and right, they simply had to learn or die.

(And a year does sound too short; they usually had at least several days on each world before moving on; also a lot of time went on between issues.)

[Beast]

A year of non-stop missions in incredibly hostile territory (killer Xavier, Skrull-world, Mojoverse) with teammates dying left and right, they simply had to learn or die.

(And a year does sound too short; they usually had at least several days on each world before moving on; also a lot of time went on between issues.)
Sliding time scale. Not sure what issue it was, one of Bedard's I believe.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Nocturne around, bright eyessssssssssssssss

I really need joo tonight!

[Dizzy D]

Sliding time scale.

Which has no reason to apply to Exiles, considering they are outside time and space.

[Beast]

Which has no reason to apply to Exiles, considering they are outside time and space.
It does. Considering it's firmly established by Age of Apocalypse and House of M.

[Dizzy D]

It does. Considering it's firmly established by Age of Apocalypse and House of M.

But as can be seen in various stories, time in alternate dimensions moves at different times: see Mimic spending 4 years on Brood-world.

[Nachturne]

Actually, I'm about 99% positive that in Exiles it was said that time does not apply to them. They won't age while they are an Exile, and time will not pass for them personally. So how long they fought is irrelevant, but not what happened to them. I'm pretty sure the Timebroker told them this in the first issue.

But then, with the Crystal Palace and the bugs, i don't know if that changed.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Do I need to repeat myself? What exactly is so OOC with TJ forming a familial relationship with Kurt given (A) she's been in 616 awhile and expects to stay here until who knows when and (B) he's encouraging and supporting it? This isn't exactly like the Exiles setup, so why should her response be the same?

That's not what I'm criticizing, though. I think what you're saying makes perfect sense. But it has been inferred i this thread, and its predecessor, that her bond with 616 Kurt is completely illogical - because he is nothing like her real father.

I disagree. I think it makes perfect sense, to form an association. And I don't think her calling Kurt 'Daddy' is not out of context when you consider she used the same term towards a Kurt from a different universe who she hadn't even spoken with, let alone formed a proper attachment to.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Actually, I'm about 99% positive that in Exiles it was said that time does not apply to them. They won't age while they are an Exile, and time will not pass for them personally. So how long they fought is irrelevant, but not what happened to them. I'm pretty sure the Timebroker told them this in the first issue.

Although we probably should take it with a pinch of salt. Since when did the Time-broker ever tell them the whole truth...?;)

[Nachturne]

Although we probably should take it with a pinch of salt. Since when did the Time-broker ever tell them the whole truth...?;)

Point....but i think it was an established part of the book...

That being said, time is still pretty irrelevant. Like Dizzy D said, Mimic spent years in the Brood world, while Nocturne and Sunfire spent a few weeks back on the legacy world, and Ilyana spent a few hours in the ocean i think...morph and heather I can't recall exactly..

[Dizzy D]

Point....but i think it was an established part of the book...

That being said, time is still pretty irrelevant. Like Dizzy D said, Mimic spent years in the Brood world, while Nocturne and Sunfire spent a few weeks back on the legacy world, and Ilyana spent a few hours in the ocean i think...morph and heather I can't recall exactly..

A couple of hours, perhaps days running from crazed Wolverine IIRC. Could be longer, but not much; they had no food, shelter or rest for the whole thing.

[mimic_616]

Ilyana was in the water for ten minutes, Morph and Heather were fighting Wolverine for an hour, Nocturne and Sunfire were on the Legacy planet for about 3 months and Mimic was on the Brood Planet for four years! Sucks to him. I really wished they showed abit of that or even done a side story about it like the others.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I miss Mimic. The only eXile I was truly gutted to see die.

[CmX]

I didn't miss Mimic until PowerPrincess, Sabretooth and SpiderMan joined the team. :(

But yeah TJ's a hottie. ;)

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

After the first 30 issues of exiles i read, which were terrible imho (and with the exception of morph i hated all the characters...especially mimic....freaking soulpatch sporting dweeb) i found out that Power Princess was on the team and became curious

But then i found out it wasnt Molly from Runaways but some other character and i was confused.

Friggin pissed me off



They really need to kill all the characters in exiles except Psylocke and Longshot, who they need to bring back to 616

Then have nocturne go form a new team with a bunch of new characters. And vastly less mutants.

[CmX]

I'd love for TJ to be the leader for Exiles if Blink were to ever depart.

And if course.. a writer capable of writing her character were writing the title.

[blinkinrogue]

After the first 30 issues of exiles i read, which were terrible imho (and with the exception of morph i hated all the characters...especially mimic....freaking soulpatch sporting dweeb) i found out that Power Princess was on the team and became curious

But then i found out it wasnt Molly from Runaways but some other character and i was confused.

Friggin pissed me off



They really need to kill all the characters in exiles except Psylocke and Longshot, who they need to bring back to 616

Then have nocturne go form a new team with a bunch of new characters. And vastly less mutants.


excuse me, all the characters except psylocke and longshot??? ok, corsair is sooooo dead bwhahahahahha...... :)

[Nachturne]

I'd love for TJ to be the leader for Exiles if Blink were to ever depart.

And if course.. a writer capable of writing her character were writing the title.

That'd be HOT. TJ actually is a really capable leader (I know, you'd never know from NEX). I kind of prefer her not in the leadership role, but I think she'd do awesome if she was.

And to the second: YES YES YES. YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

That'd be HOT. TJ actually is a really capable leader (I know, you'd never know from NEX). I kind of prefer her not in the leadership role, but I think she'd do awesome if she was.

And to the second: YES YES YES. YES YES YES YES!!!!!!!!!

I alwayys kind of hoped TJ woould stick about long enough to be Brian's second in command on NEX. Sadly, not to be. :(

[Nachturne]

I alwayys kind of hoped TJ woould stick about long enough to be Brian's second in command on NEX. Sadly, not to be. :(

LOL if Brian and Pete ever decided who was actually running it, only to find out SAGE is behind it all!!!

But that would have been interesting. I don't know, as far as we've seen, TJ's not proven to be worth much to NEX. And now with the stroke, I don't see how much she'll be to the team. Unless it's swept under the rug....RETKHANNNNN!!!!

Anyhow, did I bring this up here? Or just on Xfan during my "vacay"?? How awesome would a book set in TJ's homeworld be?? I'd buy like..4 copies a month if they did it..and had someone AWESOME writing. Simone, Vaughan, Winick, Califiore, Nicieza....sadly most of those are DC exclusives. DCCCCCCCCCC!!! *shakes fist*

[The Sword Is Drawn]

A 4-6 issue Nocturne mini would be interesting, covering some of that.

[Nachturne]

A 4-6 issue Nocturne mini would be interesting, covering some of that.

Hey, I'll take a mini. Some of the characters in her home world are REALLY cool, and I'd love to find out what the deal is with them. A mini would be an awesome start, and who knows? If it sold well, we could get an ongoing ;)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hey, I'll take a mini. Some of the characters in her home world are REALLY cool, and I'd love to find out what the deal is with them. A mini would be an awesome start, and who knows? If it sold well, we could get an ongoing ;)

Let's not go bananas here. It's rare foe solo minis to get ongoing series. But I'd certainly be interested in reading a mini.

[Nachturne]

Let's not go bananas here. It's rare foe solo minis to get ongoing series. But I'd certainly be interested in reading a mini.

Sweets, I can dream can't I?? :P

[mimic_616]

Has it ever been cleared up which earth nocturne is from?

[Nachturne]

I don't know if it has a number, but it's typically referred to as "Prof W's Xmen", as that was it's name in Millenial Visions.

All these numbers seem irrelevant TBH. Like, why do they all need a number??

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I don't know if it has a number, but it's typically referred to as "Prof W's Xmen", as that was it's name in Millenial Visions.

All these numbers seem irrelevant TBH. Like, why do they all need a number??

It's their number on the Multiversal spiral. Every alternate universe has always had a number. Irt's how you tell one exactly from another. There could literally be thousands of universes where there is a Professor W's X-Men, but with tiny little variations. Each one of those would have its own ID number. Nocturnes dimesion would have bee just one of thse many variations. That's how the Multiverse works.

[mimic_616]

I don't know if it has a number, but it's typically referred to as "Prof W's Xmen", as that was it's name in Millenial Visions.

All these numbers seem irrelevant TBH. Like, why do they all need a number??


Prof W's Xmen? When were they reffered as that?

[Nachturne]

Prof W's Xmen? When were they reffered as that?

In Millenial Visions where she first appears.

And thanks TSID. I never really got the number thing.

[mimic_616]

In Millenial Visions where she first appears.

And thanks TSID. I never really got the number thing.

Okay I'm totally lost now, what's this Millenial Visions? I take it TJ was in it?

[Nachturne]

Okay I'm totally lost now, what's this Millenial Visions? I take it TJ was in it?

Millenial Visions was done back in 99 and 00 and was a bunch of different creator's takes on different worlds in the multiverse. Prof. W's Xmen was one of them, created by Jim Califiore. The books just included team descriptions and pics. Nocturne was referred to simply as Nocturne, no power descriptions given, nor her real name or the identity of her mother. That was alllll Winick :).

Interestingly, the concept of Exiles came directly from Millenial Visions. The book at first was going to just have stories set in all these different worlds, before the idea of the team came up.

[mimic_616]

Wow. I consider myself to be a HUGE exiles fan. How on earth did I miss the Milleni thingy? Oh well. What's everyones thoughts on Nocturnes stroke?

[Nachturne]

Wow. I consider myself to be a HUGE exiles fan. How on earth did I miss the Milleni thingy? Oh well. What's everyones thoughts on Nocturnes stroke?

LOL It came before Exiles, but was the inspiration for it. I only know this from speaking with Jim Califiore about it at NYCC. Awesome guy :)

And the stroke? Lame play at trying to humanise a character through outside/random influences, rather than trying to play with the characterization/character history we already have that would have been light years more touching and given readers new to her character a much needed glimpse at who she is and what made her who she is? Yeah that sums it up.

[mimic_616]

LOL It came before Exiles, but was the inspiration for it. I only know this from speaking with Jim Califiore about it at NYCC. Awesome guy :)

And the stroke? Lame play at trying to humanise a character through outside/random influences, rather than trying to play with the characterization/character history we already have that would have been light years more touching and given readers new to her character a much needed glimpse at who she is and what made her who she is? Yeah that sums it up.

I totally agree with what your saying about the stroke. TJ is a great character, she was such a strange figure when the Exiles for started but to see what’s become of her lately is just a damn shame. I mean remember when she was on the Skrull planet? Bad ass! Mojo Planet? Tortured, but still bad ass! Now? She's become a jubilee clone! She goes around calling 616 Nightcrawler "daddy" she never called her own father daddy! Why would she say that to a young parallel universe version of her father?

[mimic_616]

LOL It came before Exiles, but was the inspiration for it. I only know this from speaking with Jim Califiore about it at NYCC. Awesome guy :)

And the stroke? Lame play at trying to humanise a character through outside/random influences, rather than trying to play with the characterization/character history we already have that would have been light years more touching and given readers new to her character a much needed glimpse at who she is and what made her who she is? Yeah that sums it up.

I totally agree with what your saying about the stroke. TJ is a great character, she was such a strong figure when the Exiles for started but to see what’s become of her lately is just a damn shame. I mean remember when she was on the Skrull planet? Bad ass! Mojo Planet? Tortured, but still bad ass! Now? She's become a jubilee clone! She goes around calling 616 Nightcrawler "daddy" she never called her own father daddy! Why would she say that to a young parallel universe version of her father?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

She goes around calling 616 Nightcrawler "daddy" she never called her own father daddy!

And yet that is exactly what she called an alternate version of Kurt who she had never even spoken to, but mooned over throughout a whole story, in the Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix must die story, in eXiles. It's the second ever eXiles story. Winnick wrote that. It is canon.

[mimic_616]

I've got the issue but I just don't see why she is going round calling alternate Kurt's daddy. No twenty year old girl calls her father "daddy".

[Nachturne]

And yet that is exactly what she called an alternate version of Kurt who she had never even spoken to, but mooned over throughout a whole story, in the Jean Grey/Dark Phoenix must die story, in eXiles. It's the second ever eXiles story. Winnick wrote that. It is canon.

I wouldnt in the least say she "mooned" over him. And remember, this was in the very beginning, where the Exiles have JUST been unhinged. There's gonna be some residual feelings for the people that they knew at home. Similar to Mimic assuming the leader of the Xmen would be Charles Xavier.

[jarrod]

I'd expect residual feelings to also be a likely side effect were TJ to ever spend any appreciable amount of time or begin a mutual relationship with any of her parental counterparts. Like 616 Kurt for example.

It's far easier to emotionally distance yourself from someone when you know you'll only be around them a day or so. Also helps when they're not encouraging a relationship with you. ;)

[Nachturne]

I'd expect residual feelings to also be a likely side effect were TJ to ever spend any appreciable amount of time or begin a mutual relationship with any of her parental counterparts. Like 616 Kurt for example.

It's far easier to emotionally distance yourself from someone when you know you'll only be around them a day or so. Also helps when they're not encouraging a relationship with you. ;)

I never had an issue with her and 616 Kurt bonding. It's just the frequency at which he appeared in the beginning of the series, along with the "daddy" comment basically cemented her character as "kurt's daughter". Granted, she is, but that's not and has never been what her character is based on. I didn't like that it had to be bashed into our heads like that in the beginning.

That being said, her calling him Daddy was cringeworthy, but him encouraging it and them coming to an understanding that that would be what she called him was.......ugh. Awful. Why?? Why would she want to call him Daddy? Why would he want to be called Daddy??

[jarrod]

I never had an issue with her and 616 Kurt bonding. It's just the frequency at which he appeared in the beginning of the series, along with the "daddy" comment basically cemented her character as "kurt's daughter". Granted, she is, but that's not and has never been what her character is based on. I didn't like that it had to be bashed into our heads like that in the beginning.

That being said, her calling him Daddy was cringeworthy, but him encouraging it and them coming to an understanding that that would be what she called him was.......ugh. Awful. Why?? Why would she want to call him Daddy? Why would he want to be called Daddy??
Well... why not? Kurt's almost patient and understanding to fault, I can totally see how he'd play off the slip to make TJ feel more comfortable in her new "home". Being close friends with Rachel, and seeing the anguish she went through hiding from and being rejected by her parental equivalents, would probably play a large part as well. He's selfless like that... and amazingly, those few scenes didn't read as forced or unnatural at all (unlike a lot of Claremont's recent Uncanny/NEX work admittedly). It's a refreshing shift from the usual angsty "alternate reality kid" setups.

From TJ's perspective, I dunno can't really comment. I'm not all that familiar with her, but from your descriptions and what little I've read, her persona seems largely derivative of Rachel, both in "the SEX" and "rookie retrofit" guises.

[mimic_616]

Making her feel welcome to her temporary "home" is one thing but the guy had a tear running down his eye and said something to the likes of "you honour me more than I dare say" I mean come on!

[Daithi]

Being close friends with Rachel, and seeing the anguish she went through hiding from and being rejected by her parental equivalents, would probably play a large part as well. He's selfless like that...


Actually that reason was shot down by Claremont on X-Fan. Nothing to do with Rachel and all to do how Kurt is such a swell guy.

[Nachturne]

Making her feel welcome to her temporary "home" is one thing but the guy had a tear running down his eye and said something to the likes of "you honour me more than I dare say" I mean come on!

Yeesh, yeah. And considering his reaction when he first saw her ;).

It's really just the "daddy's teeny bopper grrl" image that is so grating, and all this attributes to it. If these were all isolated things? They maybe wouldn't be so irritating. But the fact that she's being so miswritten, all these things pile up and lend evidence to her mishandling.

[jarrod]

Making her feel welcome to her temporary "home" is one thing but the guy had a tear running down his eye and said something to the likes of "you honour me more than I dare say" I mean come on!
Kurt's a born romantic, dramatic dialog's part of the package. Also, I seem to remember TJ being the crybaby in that scene. ;)

I may not be able to weigh in much on TJ, but for Kurt that was certainly not OOC.

[Nachturne]

Kurt's a born romantic, dramatic dialog's part of the package. Also, I seem to remember TJ being the crybaby in that scene. ;)

They both were :P. God I miss kick ass TJ *crybaby* :( :( :(

[jarrod]

Actually that reason was shot down by Claremont on X-Fan. Nothing to do with Rachel and all to do how Kurt is such a swell guy.
Wow... just another sign of Kurt being that much better than Scott or Jean. Better leader, better fighter, better cook, better lay and better cross-time parent. :D

We need a dedicated Nightcrawler thread...

[mimic_616]

They both were :P. God I miss kick ass TJ *crybaby* :( :( :(

God me to. Lets hope Clearmont gets his act together soon. I mean can you imagine what T-Bird would be like now if he saw TJ as shes currently acting? They would part ways very fast. Oh and is it just me or was anyone else left a little uneasy when TJ and Kurt first met?

[Nachturne]

We need a dedicated Nightcrawler thread...

I have an entire forum ;)

[jarrod]

Never read Kurt and TJ's initial encounter... didn't Austin handle it?

[mimic_616]

Never read Kurt and TJ's initial encounter... didn't Austin handle it?

Yeah but I actually made a mistake. I thought Kurt made some kinda comment to Nocturne about how beauitiful she was but I got my wires crossed with something else. But you ain't gonna convince me that Austin wasn't thinking about writing it! :D

[Nachturne]

Personally, I really liked their first encounter. I liked that "I knew I should have been more careful thing." It was funny :)

[Daithi]

Wow... just another sign of Kurt being that much better than Scott or Jean. Better leader, better fighter, better cook, better lay and better cross-time parent. :D

Hey Scott was fine. Queen Jean on the other hand.

[mimic_616]

I would like to see some interaction with TJ and her mom in some flash backs. Everything about her up to now has been about her dad Kurt. Even that Exiles story about TJ's home only showed a news clip of Wanda during the two part story. You think TJ would miss her mom as well as her dad.

[jarrod]

Hey Scott was fine. Queen Jean on the other hand.
Yeah, she was quite the bitch initially. Understandably of course, but then not everyone can meet Mr. Wagner's high standard. :D

[jarrod]

Personally, I really liked their first encounter. I liked that "I knew I should have been more careful thing." It was funny :)
Sounds grossly out of character.... no wonder you liked it. ;)

[Nachturne]

Sounds grossly out of character.... no wonder you liked it. ;)

:rolleyes: What's with the personal insults? Sheesh, it's like I ran over your dog instead of..you know...disagreed with you about comics....

Anyway, let's talk about her world some more!!! :P. I'm really itching to know more about the Phoenix force in Colossus' shell.

[Slung]

Anyway, let's talk about her world some more!!! :P. I'm really itching to know more about the Phoenix force in Colossus' shell.

Must.Control.Urge.To.Vomit.

As part of the JGAARUPF (Jean Grey Alliance Against Ridiculous Uses of the Pheonix Force), I must ask that this deviant blasphemy never be brought up again. I won't bash your favorite, if you won't bring up bad writing that discredits mine...:)

[Nachturne]

Must.Control.Urge.To.Vomit.

As part of the JGAARUPF (Jean Grey Alliance Against Ridiculous Uses of the Pheonix Force), I must ask that this deviant blasphemy never be brought up again. I won't bash your favorite, if you won't bring up bad writing that discredits mine...:)

Oh pfft. It's in a different timeline. It's hardly the same character.

[CmX]

Yeah I thought that was interesting I hope if it's ever brought up again it's not brought up by CC.

Yeah it is an alternate timeline get over it the Phoenix Force IS a ridiculous plot and it's been dragged through the mud so many times that it's a joke already and severly boring.

[jarrod]

:rolleyes: What's with the personal insults? Sheesh, it's like I ran over your dog instead of..you know...disagreed with you about comics....

Nothing personal, just wanted to point out your own "double standard". ;)

[Nachturne]

Yeah I thought that was interesting I hope if it's ever brought up again it's not brought up by CC.

Yeah it is an alternate timeline get over it the Phoenix Force IS a ridiculous plot and it's been dragged through the mud so many times that it's a joke already and severly boring.

I dunno, it can be cool. I'm finding the Colossus Phoenix really cool. I'd love to see more about it, and more about the other characters in her world. Just her world in general, it'd be interesting, with all the drama between Cyclops and Wolverine/Nightcrawler/the Xmen. I'd love background on all of that.

[CmX]

I thought about Nocturne today at work for some reason. Probably boredom.

[Nachturne]

I thought about Nocturne today at work for some reason. Probably boredom.

Or because she's super awesome.

You sure it was Nocturne and not Nachturne?? ;)

[mimic_616]

I thought about Nocturne today at work for some reason. Probably boredom.

You must have been, if you hadn't been you would have been thinking of Mimic! :D