View Full Version : Artists using famous people for models
Dr.Geekibus
03-21-2007, 06:14 PM
Does this bug anyone else? I just got done reading Thunderbolts and I just have to ask why they didn't just use a photo of Tommy Lee Jones for Norman Osborne. And in New Universal why aren't they just calling Ken Connell Sawyer since that's obviously who he's supposed to look like. I keep looking for other Losties to show up in the series. I'm not sure why but this really throws me out of the story and has a tendency to make me not want to come back.
RonnieThunderbolts
03-21-2007, 06:22 PM
Does this bug anyone else? I just got done reading Thunderbolts and I just have to ask why they didn't just use a photo of Tommy Lee Jones for Norman Osborne. And in New Universal why aren't they just calling Ken Connell Sawyer since that's obviously who he's supposed to look like. I keep looking for other Losties to show up in the series. I'm not sure why but this really throws me out of the story and has a tendency to make me not want to come back.
To me its no different than an actor playing a different part. I have no hard time telling Lost apart from Party of Five, even though they share a lead, and I've never thought "Mork" to myself while watching a Robin Williams movie.
To be fair, this has been going on as long as superhero comics have, with the original Fawcett Captain Marvel being based on Fred MacMurray. That being said, I find stiff photo referencing to be more distracting, and more often than not I feel that heavily photo ref'd pieces, whether I recognize the person used as a reference or not, can be cold, and more like a statue than a dynamic, moving being. So, while I don't feel the exact same way, I do appreciate the way it can take you out of the story, but for different reasons.
Does this bug anyone else? I just got done reading Thunderbolts and I just have to ask why they didn't just use a photo of Tommy Lee Jones for Norman Osborne. And in New Universal why aren't they just calling Ken Connell Sawyer since that's obviously who he's supposed to look like. I keep looking for other Losties to show up in the series. I'm not sure why but this really throws me out of the story and has a tendency to make me not want to come back.
It doesn't bug me at all... but if I were an artist I wouldn't be doing that. Ya never know when it might tick of someone and cause potential problems. It probably won't... but the hassel might not be worth it.
Dr.Geekibus
03-21-2007, 07:06 PM
I hear what you're saying. But Ronnie if you look at ish 4 of New Universal there's no question they're drawing Sawyer. Not the actor but the character itself. Besides the fact that the kid is supposed to be a high schooler, he looks exactly like him right down to the Don Johnson whiskers.
Xpac, I agree and feel that artists should be creating characters from their own imaginations. Photo referencing to such a high degree just sort of feels like cheating to me.
Expletive Deleted
03-21-2007, 07:17 PM
As long as they don't go overboard (ie. Greg Land), I'm fine with it.
I mean, Gene Colan's Dracula was Jack Palance, and that worked perfectly.
rwe1138
03-21-2007, 08:17 PM
I'm perfectly happy with Ultimate Nick Fury being Sam Jackson.
StoneGold
03-21-2007, 09:20 PM
http://www.thegoldenyears.org/fred_macmurray.jpg
http://www.twomorrows.com/alterego/media/03ccbeck2.gif
Eliseu Gouveia
03-21-2007, 09:33 PM
This practice is almost as old as comics themselves.
IIRC, back in the 30s Alex Raymond used to draw Flash Gordon with the likeness of a famous actor of that time.
ultramandingo
03-21-2007, 09:37 PM
if betty page in the the rocketeer is wrong , i dont want to be right
MAK15
03-21-2007, 09:37 PM
This practice is almost as old as comics themselves.
IIRC, back in the 30s Alex Raymond used to draw Flash Gordon with the likeness of a famous actor of that time.
to be fair, if you're gonna draw a comic based off a TV show, then yeah, use a photo reference.
If you're drawing a comic from that serves as a movie adaption, then photo referencing could be used too.
StoneGold
03-21-2007, 09:39 PM
to be fair, if you're gonna draw a comic based off a TV show, then yeah, use a photo reference.
If you're drawing a comic from that serves as a movie adaption, then photo referencing could be used too.
I don't think they had TV in the 30s.
myslead
03-21-2007, 09:40 PM
the difference with greg land is that he actually draw people from pictures. other are probably just using references from photos or whatever not straight out from a picture.
anyway, we had Angelina Jolie in the Fury's Secret War (the girl that was doing earthquakes or whatever), Samuel L. Jackson as Fury in the Ultimates, Christopher Walkens in Barracuda mini and Tommy Lee Jones in the latest Thunderbolts. There's probably tons more though.
MAK15
03-21-2007, 09:46 PM
I don't think they had TV in the 30s.
TV, Movies, you get my point.
StoneGold
03-21-2007, 09:56 PM
TV, Movies, you get my point.
Still doesn't work. Strip came first. Movie came later.
MAK15
03-21-2007, 10:45 PM
Still doesn't work. Strip came first. Movie came later.
well, I didnt know that, so I sorry.
sorta. maybe.
I wanna sammich.
But what about things like, Army of Darkness, Battlestar Galactica, any of those franchises that have certain characters that people know because of their big-screen or TV appearances? should the artists jut draw those characters how they want to? or is this an instance where some photocopying is allowed?
Dusty.
03-21-2007, 10:55 PM
It only bothers me because of the thought behind this practice. Quesada's Marvel is filled with wannabe movie screenwriters. Marvel needs to be aware that things have to happen fast enough for us to believe it's really moving. They are comic books, they are not printed films. Throwing in famous actors to try to make it seem more like a movie is not a good practice.
StoneGold
03-21-2007, 11:39 PM
It only bothers me because of the thought behind this practice. Quesada's Marvel is filled with wannabe movie screenwriters. Marvel needs to be aware that things have to happen fast enough for us to believe it's really moving. They are comic books, they are not printed films. Throwing in famous actors to try to make it seem more like a movie is not a good practice.
Like I said, CC Beck was a jerk.
It's okay to use photomaterial as reference but outright tracing is lame
Kirayoshi
03-22-2007, 02:19 AM
I know that Alex Ross has used photo references for his artwork(he cast Patrick Stewart as Professor X befor Bryan Singer did), but as long as artists don't trace I'm okay.
In sins past mary jane is getting an acting lesson from robert de niro...his name isn't mentioned i don't think but it's definatley him.
Eliseu Gouveia
03-22-2007, 09:30 AM
I don't think they had TV in the 30s.
LOL
No, I don´t think they had them either.
I think Alex Raymond draw Flash with the likeness of Erol Flynn or Cary Grant but I may be WAY off (wish my sister was here, she´s the Flash Gordon expert :p ).
Novaya Havoc
03-22-2007, 09:52 AM
It makes me happy that Scot Eaton's Dazzler's face looks like Kylie Minogue's. :D
Now just get the hair like hers, and the wardrobe, and we're set.
Alan2099
03-22-2007, 09:53 AM
The thing about older art is even if they did use inspiration, they weren't trying to copy the character exactly as they appeared.
Nowawadays with the more photorealistic (meaning completley static and unmoving, but really detailed) work, you can easily look at characters and there's no doubt in anyone's mind exactly who it's supposed to be, and I find that distracting in stories.
RonnieThunderbolts
03-22-2007, 12:40 PM
It's okay to use photomaterial as reference but outright tracing is lame
Yeah, I TOTALLY agree. But, as most of us here on this thread seem to agree, it can become something of a crutch, like the case of Greg Land.
thorionthei
03-22-2007, 12:57 PM
Personally I don't like it. DC has already got sued for it. I think the real people could sue. Sure some people may like it. Samuel L. Jackson loves being in Ultimates. But it will only be a matter of time before someone sues.
If an artist wants to use his friends, relatives and has their consent? So be it. Heck if famous people give their consent I won't have a problem with it for that matter.
Eliseu Gouveia
03-22-2007, 01:24 PM
It makes me happy that Scot Eaton's Dazzler's face looks like Kylie Minogue's. :D
Now just get the hair like hers, and the wardrobe, and we're set.
Maybe our Kylie Minogue IS Dazzler in earth 616. :cool:
shaunyc56
03-22-2007, 02:14 PM
It's okay to use photomaterial as reference but outright tracing is lame
I second that. Sam Fury is better to me that orig Fury. As long as nobody is tracing red carpet pics, I'm cool w/ it.
StoneGold
03-22-2007, 02:18 PM
Speaking of Fury, after Escape from New York, Steranko started drawing Fury looking like Kurt Russel in promo pieces and covers he did.
Spectrum
03-22-2007, 02:23 PM
Granted Greg Land is just tracing ontop of photos, being inspired by an actor for a character is another thing. I for one would be very sad if Dr. Strange stopped looking like Vincent Price.
streator
03-22-2007, 03:10 PM
sometimes it bothers me, sometimes it doesn't. it really depends on the artist and how much they're trying to imitate a famous person's looks.
for example, hitch's nick fury/samuel l. jackson doesn't bother me, but when i saw the new universal preview i thought larroca had gone too far.
Yeah, I TOTALLY agree. But, as most of us here on this thread seem to agree, it can become something of a crutch, like the case of Greg Land.
Take away Grag Land's tracing paper then he would not have a career.
captain_unimpressive
03-22-2007, 03:28 PM
I've been using photo references lately, but nothing like Greg Land or certain other artists who are actually getting published.
One of my characters looks remarkably like Michael Rosenbaum, and another related character was based loosely on Brian K. Vaughan, but both have hair, aren't wearing the same clothing, and have different poses.
I think that studying faces is a good way to see how the human face works, but I wouldn't base a career on it.
TonyJaymz03
03-22-2007, 04:05 PM
I read through some of Greg Land's UFF and it was so stiff, and characters looked completely different in each panel....Johnny Storm would look like Paul walker one moment, Justin Timberlake the next, and non e of the art had any flow at all, I will never buy anything Greg Land is attached to
wasn't Gregory Peck the "model" for Batman years ago?
StoneGold
03-22-2007, 06:14 PM
I read through some of Greg Land's UFF and it was so stiff, and characters looked completely different in each panel....Johnny Storm would look like Paul walker one moment, Justin Timberlake the next, and non e of the art had any flow at all, I will never buy anything Greg Land is attached to
wasn't Gregory Peck the "model" for Batman years ago?
Maybe at some point, but not originally. Peck's first movie was in 1944. Mazzuchelli definitely drew Bruce like him in Year One, though.
Ventura
03-22-2007, 06:21 PM
Trivia:
Gil Kane has said that he based Hal Jordan's face on Paul Newman (the way Newman looked in the early 1960s).
tangentman
03-22-2007, 09:14 PM
George Perez based his early Wonder Girl on Marie Osmond. When he grew artistically, he went with a more regal interpretation.
Need I point out Michael Gaydos' use of Jennifer Connelly as the model for Jessica Drew in Alias' "The Underneath"?
DDM: Is that a work-shopped Lyle Waggoner as your avatar?
ultramandingo
03-22-2007, 09:25 PM
George Perez based his early Wonder Girl on Marie Osmond. When he grew artistically, he went with a more regal interpretation.
more regal interpretation.......... ,olivia newton john ?
Eliseu Gouveia
03-22-2007, 09:37 PM
Does anyone know if they based Peter Parker on an actual celebrity like they did with M.J.?
He was portrayed quite consistently as someone you could recognise in the street, up til the 90s.
StoneGold
03-22-2007, 09:48 PM
Does anyone know if they based Peter Parker on an actual celebrity like they did with M.J.?
He was portrayed quite consistently as someone you could recognise in the street, up til the 90s.
Consistent?
http://www.madmoizelle.com/images_contenu/2006-07/superheros/peter_parker_lunettes_bd.jpg
http://www.thesketchagraphcorner.com/MSA/Romita-ParkerSpiderManSplit.jpg
Pretty big jump just from Ditko to Romita.
Tim OSullivan
03-22-2007, 10:00 PM
Does anyone know if they based Peter Parker on an actual celebrity like they did with M.J.?
He was portrayed quite consistently as someone you could recognise in the street, up til the 90s.
Great point.
That's my gripe w/ the new photo-realism- changing the way our faves look from artist to artist.
I couldn't pick Reed Richards out of a line-up these days, unless he looks like the Professor from Gilligan's Island:D
Enigmanaut
03-22-2007, 10:02 PM
I hear what you're saying. But Ronnie if you look at ish 4 of New Universal there's no question they're drawing Sawyer. Not the actor but the character itself. Besides the fact that the kid is supposed to be a high schooler, he looks exactly like him right down to the Don Johnson whiskers.
Xpac, I agree and feel that artists should be creating characters from their own imaginations. Photo referencing to such a high degree just sort of feels like cheating to me.
Who the frell is Sawyer?
StoneGold
03-22-2007, 10:18 PM
Who the frell is Sawyer?
Never use swear words from canceled science fiction series. It makes you look out of touch. Even more out of touch than not knowing one of the main characters from Lost. Which, while I realize it isn't the hit it was last year, well, you get the drift.
Seriously though, don't use swear words from canceled sci fi shows. It's just sad.
Enigmanaut
03-22-2007, 11:27 PM
Never use swear words from canceled science fiction series. It makes you look out of touch. Even more out of touch than not knowing one of the main characters from Lost. Which, while I realize it isn't the hit it was last year, well, you get the drift.
Seriously though, don't use swear words from canceled sci fi shows. It's just sad.
First: Frell you, I'll frelling well use "frell" if I frelling want to! ;)
Second: I never watched so much as a frame of "Lost" due to having missed the first few episodes, I thought I'd never catch up... and since then, nothing I've heard about Lost has made me regret not seeing it. They apparently need to learn not to ask questions if you have no intention of ever giving the answers.
Third: I don't care if I'm out of touch, Sally Floyd. I like "frell."
StoneGold
03-22-2007, 11:33 PM
First: Frell you, I'll frelling well use "frell" if I frelling want to! ;)
Second: I never watched so much as a frame of "Lost" due to having missed the first few episodes, I thought I'd never catch up... and since then, nothing I've heard about Lost has made me regret not seeing it. They apparently need to learn not to ask questions if you have no intention of ever giving the answers.
Third: I don't care if I'm out of touch, Sally Floyd. I like "frell."
Well, if you're comfortable with your virginity, so am I.
I keed.
Expletive Deleted
03-23-2007, 10:32 AM
Seriously though, don't use swear words from canceled sci fi shows. It's just sad.Frackin' A, man.
DDM: Is that a work-shopped Lyle Waggoner as your avatar?
It's not work-shopped. However, the picture is Lyle Waggoner from the mid-70's taken from Playgirl.
StoneGold
03-23-2007, 01:23 PM
Frackin' A, man.
You get away with it, because it just got signed for another season.
Although in all seriousness, frell was just a lousy swear word. All soft consonants.
40yearoldnovafan
03-23-2007, 02:35 PM
As long as they don't go overboard (ie. Greg Land), I'm fine with it.
I mean, Gene Colan's Dracula was Jack Palance, and that worked perfectly.
Greg Land uses Tom Weller, Clark Kent from Smallville, a lot. I believe Vincent Price was used for Dr Strange: Oath.
Jimmy
Eliseu Gouveia
03-23-2007, 04:06 PM
Found it!
Alex Raymond´s template for Flash Gordon!
it wasn´t Erol Flynn or Cary Grant, it was Gary Cooper!!
http://www.altair.co.uk/gary%20cooper%20signed%20photo.JPG
http://catsandotherstuff.no.sapo.pt/belogue/flash_dale.gif
http://themave.com/bijou/30/galry/coop.jpg
http://catsandotherstuff.no.sapo.pt/belogue/flash_zarkov.gif
Thanks, sis.
oneasian
03-23-2007, 04:21 PM
all i have to say is that if it works, then it works. i just wouldnt want the fact that the image looks like a certain celeb/actor takes away from the reading.
that being said, i thought this would be cool to post in this thread. character inspiration for the Ulitimates:
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/3419/ultimatesascelebs1ew2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/6179/ultimatesascelebs2copyma1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
Reptisaurus!
03-23-2007, 04:38 PM
Huh. Interesting.
(I start a lot of posts like that.)
I wouldn't have guessed any of those from just looking at the way the characters are designed, actually.
mattx110
03-23-2007, 04:46 PM
plus, we all know robert redford/brad pitt are the models for matt murdock...
if we can use more recently known actors, i'd put daniel craig on the list to be a model for captain america before brad pitt.
oneasian
03-23-2007, 04:56 PM
plus, we all know robert redford/brad pitt are the models for matt murdock...
if we can use more recently known actors, i'd put daniel craig on the list to be a model for captain america before brad pitt.
Isn't Daniel Craig supposed to be James Bond?
mattx110
03-23-2007, 08:19 PM
Isn't Daniel Craig supposed to be James Bond?
how many james bond comics is marvel publishing?
how many captain america?
(and shush with mentioning cap no longer being in his books, this is theoretical speak)
but that dopey grin and looking like he can smash apart tables like toothpicks build is more like captain america than brad pitt.
maybe i just can't get over picture pitt as a dirty drunk boxer...
captain_unimpressive
03-26-2007, 04:29 PM
In response to the Gregory Peck comment:
Isn't this a habit of Alex Ross as well?
oneasian
03-26-2007, 06:34 PM
In response to the Gregory Peck comment:
Isn't this a habit of Alex Ross as well?
I think Alex Ross uses more models and friends as opposed to actual celebrities
mattx110
03-26-2007, 06:36 PM
I think Alex Ross uses more models and friends as opposed to actual celebrities
yea, but he's gregory peck!
he fricken looks like an alex ross painting.
kcekada
03-28-2007, 10:18 AM
HATE IT!
And I don't understand why it is allowed. Amy Grant once sued Marvel because Butch Guice used her image on a cover of Dr. Strange.
wingsofdamnation
03-28-2007, 10:25 AM
miller used hugh jackman as a model for ultimate wolverine. he said that he wanted to get rid of the concept of having wolverine being a midget with a temper and instead turn him into a normal 5ft10 suave ladies man...with a temper
StoneGold
03-28-2007, 01:56 PM
HATE IT!
And I don't understand why it is allowed. Amy Grant once sued Marvel because Butch Guice used her image on a cover of Dr. Strange.
That was different. He used an album cover. A piece of copyrighted artwork. If I'm just using random image, or an original work that happens to look like an actor, who is to say that I am drawing Jan-Michael Vincent, or just some guy that happens to look rather similar to Jan-Michael Vincent?
Kirk G
03-28-2007, 02:21 PM
HATE IT!
And I don't understand why it is allowed. Amy Grant once sued Marvel because Butch Guice used her image on a cover of Dr. Strange.
Marvel doesn't like to talk about that one.
And yes, it's an arguement that not only was it a copyrighted image, but also the image of a Christian artist on a black magic-themed plot... she wasn't pleased.
Other actors and artists, who are used as templates have had differing reactions... from acceptance by Don Rickle's agent, to lack of knowledge of the usage by the actor. I suspect the Hawkeye/Bruce Willis connection is only a recent addition, as Willis was an unknown back when Hawkeye was originally drawn and created. But it might fit now...:rolleyes:
vazel
03-28-2007, 02:47 PM
OMG I know what you mean this bugs the shit out of me. Seeing Tommy in Thunderbolts is distracting. I know many artists use real life models to base some of their characters on but if you're going to do that use obscure ones like Alex Ross who uses family and friends.
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