Civil War Battle Damage Report Review

[drwho]

I bought this and it has the typical used recycled art of characters from other books. I was hoping the current bios would be more detailed for the characters in it and how Civil War affected them. But seems like 2 to 3 sentences were added of new material to each bio. I think the previous Civil War 1 shot about Tony's impressions on the characters was a better idea than this one. This one just really read like an issue of who's who from Marvel. Tells history and describes power. I think Marvel dropped the ball on this one because it was pretty boring to me and I didn't want to read a whole profile to read a few new sentences about the character.

[XPac]

There are a few bits of info in there that are interesting... though for most people I don't imagine it would be worth the price.

There's some nice material in there that can be valuable as far as discussing the pro's and con's of the registration on internet boards like this, but I don't see too many people reading this purely for the entertainment value.

[Haunt]

i picked it up for Ant-Man and stayed to find out general info on the more obscure characters. they identified another new character from the Initiative series; Hardball. we still haven't seen a picture of 'Armory.'

[LordEd1976]

Besides Ant-Man and Hardball, who else is profiled?

[Haunt]

Besides Ant-Man and Hardball, who else is profiled?

i don't have the book out in front of me. they were more like 'headshots' than profiles; basically just a small pic and their status ('registered' or 'unregistered combatant'). most of the rebel heroes seen in Frontline were in there. Yellowjacket, Luke Cage, Digitek, SHIELD, She-Hulk, Stingray, etc. it's not worth it if you really want to learn anything new about these characters beyond maybe their first name.

[jackolover]

It's a good run-down of what happened to characters in all the tie-ins, for anyone who didn't get tie-ins to CW.

Can anyone tell me what happened to Gravity? His grave is mentioned in an upcoming FF story, but I didn't get any info in this book about his death.

[Jmacq1]

There were some amusing "shots" in the book. Some of which really seemed aimed at readers and internet commentators (most notably the bit about people thinking heroes had to reveal their identity publicly because of Peter Parker's unmasking, and that misconception actually driving more heroes away from the Pro-Reg side).

All in all it was a little "dry" but if you want extra-obscure, they're probably in the "Potential Recruits" appendix. :P :)

If nothing else, it was fairly interesting to see the status of a lot of the heroes post-CW. Though several of them still didn't get accounted for (Hercules, Cloak, and Dagger most notably).

[SKJAM!]

There are a few interesting bits--how it is that Iron Fist is running around with the New Avengers when Danny Rand is known to be him, for example.

We aren't spoiled as to who else besides Typeface was killed in the 42 breakout fight.

Green Goblin's going off the reservation is mentioned a few times, Tony keeps calling it "mysterious".

Gravity isn't mentioned because he was already dead by the time Civil War began. Or at least so everyone involved believes, to the point of sticking him in a grave.

[MAK15]

what fried my...bacon is that I still dont know who the new Ronin is (kinda wanted a slip up like in the Marvel handbook.)
but Im happy that Marvel hasnt forgotten Monstro the Mighty from Amazing Fantasy 15

[jackolover]

Gravity isn't mentioned because he was already dead by the time Civil War began. Or at least so everyone involved believes, to the point of sticking him in a grave.

Can you tell me which book this happened in please?

[MAK15]

Can you tell me which book this happened in please?

it happened in BEYOND!
twas a great mini, you must read it now!

[Madison Carter]

Green Goblin's going off the reservation is mentioned a few times, Tony keeps calling it "mysterious".

Well, sure. You think he's going to actually admit to anyone, even the President, he was behind it?

[XPac]

Well, sure. You think he's going to actually admit to anyone, even the President, he was behind it?

Yeah... that's the problem with these things. They're obviously written by Tony, and thus they have an obvious slant and bias. He'll keep things such as his involvement in the Atlantean affair to himself and make everything he did as bright and shiney as possible. It's a letter to the president afterall... naturally he's trying to spin things.

The same thing could be said about the Civil War epilogue in CW7. The epilogue was a letter by Reed trying to get his wife back... naturally there was a bias and a spin.

[MAK15]

Yeah... that's the problem with these things. They're obviously written by Tony, and thus they have an obvious slant and bias. He'll keep things such as his involvement in the Atlantean affair to himself and make everything he did as bright and shiney as possible. It's a letter to the president afterall... naturally he's trying to spin things.

The same thing could be said about the Civil War epilogue in CW7. The epilogue was a letter by Reed trying to get his wife back... naturally there was a bias and a spin.

of course, no one else but IM and MR.F has called the NA 'radicals'

[jackolover]

it happened in BEYOND!
twas a great mini, you must read it now!

Thanks MAK15. I hope I can find the exact issue, though.

[MAK15]

Thanks MAK15. I hope I can find the exact issue, though.

read ish six for the heroic ending (or is it?) of Gravity!
also, read the next arc of FF, which follows his death.

[Haunt]

what fried my...bacon is that I still dont know who the new Ronin is (kinda wanted a slip up like in the Marvel handbook.)
but Im happy that Marvel hasnt forgotten Monstro the Mighty from Amazing Fantasy 15

he's appearing very soon in Irredeemable Ant-Man. i'm just guessing that he will be in the employ of Damage Control; given his enhanced strength.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/AntMan/07/antman_007_020inks.jpg

[MAK15]

he's appearing very soon in Irredeemable Ant-Man. i'm just guessing that he will be in the employ of Damage Control; given his enhanced strength.

http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/AntMan/07/antman_007_020inks.jpg

fantastic!
but Im a lil surprised that he's working with DC, since he was last seen doing a lotta good with the NYFD

[Syzygy]

Okay, the "Civil War Files Appendix"....

What websites might have information on these characters such that I could look up a more detailed listing on them?

Uncannyxmen.net only has mutants. And Marvel.com was also unsatifactory for these minor, relatively obscure characters.

Recommendations?

Peace,
Syzygy

[tavella]

There are a few interesting bits--how it is that Iron Fist is running around with the New Avengers when Danny Rand is known to be him, for example.

What *is* the explanation for that? I'm curious.

[Madison Carter]

Okay, the "Civil War Files Appendix"....

What websites might have information on these characters such that I could look up a more detailed listing on them?

Uncannyxmen.net only has mutants. And Marvel.com was also unsatifactory for these minor, relatively obscure characters.

Recommendations?

Peace,
Syzygy

Absolutely: The Unoffical Appendix of the Marvel Universe - http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix

[jackolover]

read ish six for the heroic ending (or is it?) of Gravity!
also, read the next arc of FF, which follows his death.

Yes, I found it. I look forward to the continuity of Gravity. I'm told "Beyond" happened before CW?

[jpk]

it happened in BEYOND!
twas a great mini, you must read it now!

You're just pimping it because the Hood's in it. :p

It is a good mini, though. Quirky writing, eclectic characters and nice pencils by Kolins.

[Madison Carter]

I'm told "Beyond" happened before CW?

That's correct.

[SKJAM!]

What *is* the explanation for that? I'm curious.


Taking a page from the Daredevil 2.0 plotline (and various times Tony Stark has done the same thing), Danny Rand is claiming that the Iron Fist seen fighting with the New Avengers is a new guy in the same costume. Presumably, Immortal Iron Fist will have more details on this when it comes up.

[Soundrave]

Not finished yet, but my favorite part of the book has been the “International Reaction” section. It has me stoked because it finally seems like Marvel is going to deal with super-heroics on an international scale as opposed to its New York-centric view of the world. It reminds me of what DC was doing in 52 with the whole Black Adam/Great Ten plot . . . but who needs the Great Ten when you have Big Hero Six?

[Jmacq1]

I also really liked the angle they used to explain Japan's love of their superheroes.

The Japanese believe that the superheroes have saved them from the "age of giant monsters." Great bit of in-universe historical commentary on what a lot of comics were about (in the real world) before the superheroes came along. ;)

[MAK15]

You're just pimping it because the Hood's in it. :p

.

now what makes you say that?:D

[Ungoliantschilde]

It's the usual stuff. I liked it that it was written in Tony's voice, and it seemed like it was his impressions of the people, rather than the typical, back-of-the-collectible-card biographies we get. For a while there, Wolverine's bio' never, ever changed. It was the same in the X-Men encyclopedia, the handbooks, and everything. They actually wrote it like someone was giving a report, which is cool. Other than that, the art was - as always - annoyingly cut and paste (How long could it possibly take to do thumbnails of well known characters? At least do it once for these collections, instead of just taking from covers and what-not. Otherwise, worth the price. Ed McGuinness draws all pretty and stuff. I wish Vines had inked him though.

[Soundrave]

It's the usual stuff. I liked it that it was written in Tony's voice, and it seemed like it was his impressions of the people, rather than the typical, back-of-the-collectible-card biographies we get. For a while there, Wolverine's bio' never, ever changed. It was the same in the X-Men encyclopedia, the handbooks, and everything. They actually wrote it like someone was giving a report, which is cool. Other than that, the art was - as always - annoyingly cut and paste (How long could it possibly take to do thumbnails of well known characters? At least do it once for these collections, instead of just taking from covers and what-not. Otherwise, worth the price. Ed McGuinness draws all pretty and stuff. I wish Vines had inked him though.

Original McGuinness headshots for each of the characters would have been extremely cool! I want to see McGuinness' take on Phone Ranger!!

[Slumber Hulk]

Not a lot of new information. Just a couple of sentences added. And the fact that this thing is written from IM's perspective makes the information incomplete. For example, he doesn't seem to know the origin of Daredevil. And accurate origin and power information is all I look for in a book like this. I prefer the Handbooks that come from some all-knowing narrator.

Of course this whole thing is TYPO-TOWN! There appears to be a copy-paste problem at play here. Words and sentences repeat themselves. It makes the whole thing seem slapdash and I regret buying it.

[Post-It]

What i thought interesting

1. Falcon and Brother Vodoo have registered.

2. Silverclaw was never captured by Ms. Marvel.

[The Cool Thatguy]

What i thought interesting

1. Falcon and Brother Vodoo have registered.

2. Silverclaw was never captured by Ms. Marvel.

Silverclaw wasn't caught? What was the deal there, exactly?

[XPac]

Silverclaw wasn't caught? What was the deal there, exactly?

According to Battle Damage Report, after Caps surrender Silver Claw voluntarily surrendered and registered.

It's a shame we never got Jarvis take on the situation in the context of Silver Claw. That would have been a nice bit of additional story there.

[The Cool Thatguy]

According to Battle Damage Report, after Caps surrender Silver Claw voluntarily surrendered and registered.

It's a shame we never got Jarvis take on the situation in the context of Silver Claw. That would have been a nice bit of additional story there.

Agreed. It's amazing that Infinate Crisis gave most of it's characters more characterization than Civil War, a crossover based on ideals.

That said, I find it a little odd Silverclaw would feel compelled to fight registration. She's not an American Citizen and while she can disagree with it all she wants, morally she has little right to take up arms against it.

[Post-It]

Agreed. It's amazing that Infinate Crisis gave most of it's characters more characterization than Civil War, a crossover based on ideals.

That said, I find it a little odd Silverclaw would feel compelled to fight registration. She's not an American Citizen and while she can disagree with it all she wants, morally she has little right to take up arms against it.


Agreed. It just feels out of place. 1. She was up against Ms. Marvel. 2. If she got away why is this the first we are hearing about it?

[Haunt]

Agreed. It's amazing that Infinate Crisis gave most of it's characters more characterization than Civil War, a crossover based on ideals.

That said, I find it a little odd Silverclaw would feel compelled to fight registration. She's not an American Citizen and while she can disagree with it all she wants, morally she has little right to take up arms against it.

she was going to school in the United States, wasn't she? plus she was a huge fan of Captain America. Taskmaster took advantage of this fanworship at one point.

[Red Orion]

Agreed. It's amazing that Infinate Crisis gave most of it's characters more characterization than Civil War, a crossover based on ideals.

That said, I find it a little odd Silverclaw would feel compelled to fight registration. She's not an American Citizen and while she can disagree with it all she wants, morally she has little right to take up arms against it.

Silverclaw didn't try to fight registration until Warbird tried to arrest her.

[XPac]

Agreed. It's amazing that Infinate Crisis gave most of it's characters more characterization than Civil War, a crossover based on ideals.

That said, I find it a little odd Silverclaw would feel compelled to fight registration. She's not an American Citizen and while she can disagree with it all she wants, morally she has little right to take up arms against it.

I don't think she was actually fighting the registration per say. SHe never signed up with Caps Secret Avengers or anything. I think she just fought Ms. Marvel because she wrongly believed that Ms. Marvel was harassing her.

[Madison Carter]

I'll have to double-check the final version of CWBDR, but in at least one draft, it was clearly stated that she didn't register at first because she believed she was exempt from it as a non-national.

[Beast]

Finally got my comics and was reading through this.
Did a bit of a double take on the list of the instructors of the 50 State Initiative program.

Beast?

I knew he was making a cameo to bring in Dani Moonster. But a confirmed member of the Avengers: The Initiative cast? I'm certainly cool with Beast there interacting with the Avengers instructors. Especially Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man, etc. But that's something I didn't expect to see.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Finally got my comics and was reading through this.
Did a bit of a double take on the list of the instructors of the 50 State Initiative program.

Beast?

I knew he was making a cameo to bring in Dani Moonster. But a confirmed member of the Avengers: The Initiative cast? I'm certainly cool with Beast there interacting with the Avengers instructors. Especially Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man, etc. But that's something I didn't expect to see.

Wait, Dani Moonstar is part of the 50 states thing?

[Beast]

Wait, Dani Moonstar is part of the 50 states thing?
Yeah, she was teased a while back and confirmed in this book.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Yeah, she was teased a while back and confirmed in this book.


Whoo! Glad she's back. Hope she gets her powers, or somethin' like them, back, and she stays outta the X titles.

[FrogMan]

I see Frog-Man in a Civil War book!!! WOOT!

Oh wait, that was a crappy appearance. Anybody think Marvel just made a list of all the characters we asked about, and stuck them in the appendix?

[drwho]

Nice to see both Sleep Walker and his one time Squeeze Spectra get a headshot. WOOHOO we have hit the big time now.If I'm lucky maybe the thunderbolts will try to catch old sleepy.

[bulbasteve]

I see Frog-Man in a Civil War book!!! WOOT!

Oh wait, that was a crappy appearance. Anybody think Marvel just made a list of all the characters we asked about, and stuck them in the appendix?

Could be people that will show up in The Initiative.

[gorthon616]

SLAPSTICK IS BACK...STICK!

YES. (It's strange that I am so interested in a character due solely to having one of his old Marvel Trading cards. =P)

[yeoman]

I don't know about everyone else, but this was the most unintentionally hilarious comic I've ever read. And I was around for the early issues of Youngblood.

[yeoman]

What i thought interesting

1. Falcon and Brother Vodoo have registered.



And Tony is hoping that Brother Voodoo can be his Anti-Dr. Stange weapon.

Yeah. No. Just... no.

[XPac]

And Tony is hoping that Brother Voodoo can be his Anti-Dr. Stange weapon.

Yeah. No. Just... no.

I imagine Brother Voodoo can maybe make a little headway if Strange isn't actively trying to counter him. But once Strange realizes a magical arms race is occuring, he'll blow Voodoo out of the water.

[yeoman]

I imagine Brother Voodoo can maybe make a little headway if Strange isn't actively trying to counter him. But once Strange realizes a magical arms race is occuring, he'll blow Voodoo out of the water.

IOW: He might be able to slightly annoy him until Strange actually notices he's there.

[XPac]

IOW: He might be able to slightly annoy him until Strange actually notices he's there.

Yeah... if Tony really wants to put a dent into Strange, he needs to dig up Baron Mordo somewhere, pump him full of nanos, and get him to work (unless he's unavailable or something). Brother Voodoo ain't gonna cut it.

[shaunyc56]

Yeah... if Tony really wants to put a dent into Strange, he needs to dig up Baron Mordo somewhere, pump him full of nanos, and get him to work (unless he's unavailable or something). Brother Voodoo ain't gonna cut it.

Brother Voodoo has been off the radar for some time. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing him upgraded, ala Luke Cage. Not to Strange level of course, he is the Sorcerer Supreme, but close enough that in a team battle situation he could get the upper hand isn't so bad, and honestly, it makes Doc Strange a little more fun to see him break a sweat once in a while.`

[shaunyc56]

The Luke Cage entry was hilarious, "leather jacket that seems to be just as invulnerable" I actually laughed out loud. Does anyone know what happened w/ the whole Asgardian magic infused chain he swiped off the wrecker, maybe that explains the power fluctuations. Personally, I don't mind seeing power level move up and down to tell a story better.

[Loner]

I didn't think it was possible, but this book made me even more annoyed with Marvel than I already was.

They had, what, about SIXTY(!) issues of books to tell this "story" in, and STILL they're teasing out what the %#@! happened and giving us this recycled claptrap casually mentioning off-panel activity? It's like the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer(aka the PMS years), where the potentials just sat around Buffy's living room talking about all the horrible things going on in Sunnydale that were never depicted. They had plenty of space to show us what happened, yet didn't - probably becuse they're still making it up/retconning as they go along(like Typeface being hauled away from the final battle when he was killed in one of the first battles). Are they still arguing over who else got killed, or are we going to find that out a year from now?

The pacing is worse than a TV soap opera. The vast majority of the issues contributed at BEST one page, and often not even that.

And the sad part is it was a sales success so they will keep pulling this - success meaning sales up from a minuscule fraction to a small fraction of what they sold back when they knew how to tell stories.

[FrogMan]

Could be people that will show up in The Initiative.


God I hope so. Marvel has brought back just about every D-lister I wnted them to, except Frog-Man. PLEEEAASSE let him show up in the Initiative.

(Well, they didn't bring back SuperPro, either. Couldn't they have just snuck him into the Battle Damage Report appendix???? I'm sure nobody would've cared. I mean,they are allowed to reference these licensed characters in the handbooks.)

[MAK15]

God I hope so. Marvel has brought back just about every D-lister I wnted them to, except Frog-Man. PLEEEAASSE let him show up in the Initiative.

(Well, they didn't bring back SuperPro, either. Couldn't they have just snuck him into the Battle Damage Report appendix???? I'm sure nobody would've cared. I mean,they are allowed to reference these licensed characters in the handbooks.)

they said Frogman was a potential initiaitive recruit, so theres still hope.

[Loner]

And what's with She-hulk getting downgraded from Class 100 in the pre-CW summary to Class 90 now? Is this just so she loses to Iron Man when they tussle?

[jaxcs]

I didn't think it was possible, but this book made me even more annoyed with Marvel than I already was.

They had, what, about SIXTY(!) issues of books to tell this "story" in, and STILL they're teasing out what the %#@! happened and giving us this recycled claptrap casually mentioning off-panel activity? It's like the last season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer(aka the PMS years), where the potentials just sat around Buffy's living room talking about all the horrible things going on in Sunnydale that were never depicted. They had plenty of space to show us what happened, yet didn't - probably becuse they're still making it up/retconning as they go along(like Typeface being hauled away from the final battle when he was killed in one of the first battles). Are they still arguing over who else got killed, or are we going to find that out a year from now?

The pacing is worse than a TV soap opera. The vast majority of the issues contributed at BEST one page, and often not even that.

And the sad part is it was a sales success so they will keep pulling this - success meaning sales up from a minuscule fraction to a small fraction of what they sold back when they knew how to tell stories.


The witting is pretty flat too. What I found most annoying of all though was that there wasn't enough things in it to read. Since I already followed the CW series, for the most part all I did was to read the last paragraph of each profile.

I know everyone wants to see some of these d list heroes and in some cases villans play a real role in future books but I just don't think it's going to happen. Maybe we will see them in action in a group battle scene but I think that will be about all we will get. there just too many characters for even most of them to have a role.

[jaxcs]

Agreed. It's amazing that Infinate Crisis gave most of it's characters more characterization than Civil War, a crossover based on ideals.

That said, I find it a little odd Silverclaw would feel compelled to fight registration. She's not an American Citizen and while she can disagree with it all she wants, morally she has little right to take up arms against it.

I don't think silverclaw was fighting registration so much as she was caught up in registration. If you have a superpower and you happen to be in the USA, you have to register. IM wanted Ares to register, what is the point of that? His secret identity is Joe Ironworker. Who he is is Ares. And, he isn't an American citizen. Or how about Hercules, who doesn't have a secret identity? There are some big holes to the entire SHRA concept

[Dark Ben]

I read it swiftly and I was suprized to see in the internationals' reactions the France and I was even more astonish how good the France's immigration policy was pictured good work on this Marvel, the rest was just crap the only thing it gave me was the ID of Lectron (I thought it was speedball with Captain Marvel powers at first)

[32Cage]

The Luke Cage entry was hilarious, "leather jacket that seems to be just as invulnerable" I actually laughed out loud. Does anyone know what happened w/ the whole Asgardian magic infused chain he swiped off the wrecker, maybe that explains the power fluctuations. Personally, I don't mind seeing power level move up and down to tell a story better.


Cage has undergone the powerman process that orginally gave him his powers multiple times. that explains the power upgrade. On one of those occassions the experiment was tried on Cage's leather jacket. (see issue #7 of Cage the Evil and the Cure 4 issue storyline). That explains why it too shares the same resistence to damage as Cage's skin.

It was a crowbar that he took from the Wrecker not a chain. He has yet to use it.

[Pach!]

I skimmed through this in my LCS and didn't see Dani Moonstar...under what heading was she under X-men, MIrage?

[shaunyc56]

Cage has undergone the powerman process that orginally gave him his powers multiple times. that explains the power upgrade. On one of those occassions the experiment was tried on Cage's leather jacket. (see issue #7 of Cage the Evil and the Cure 4 issue storyline). That explains why it too shares the same resistence to damage as Cage's skin.

It was a crowbar that he took from the Wrecker not a chain. He has yet to use it.

Cool, appreciate the info.

[myslead]

asking Brother Voodoo to put the hurt on Dr.Strange is like asking Ant-Man to do something against a fully angry Hulk. (yes I do know there's an Ant-Man vs Hulk issue coming up, or at least put in the same issue)

and who is that Captain Rectitude guy? the anti-pornography superhero lol, that's awful.

[MAK15]

It was a crowbar that he took from the Wrecker not a chain. He has yet to use it.

he prolly had to hand it in to the authorities (SHIELD) in order to make sure that it didnt wind up in the hands of some rich-villain roleplayer again.

[32Cage]

Cool, appreciate the info.


No problem. In an interview with Brian Bendis, he acknowledged that we will see Cage bring out the crowbar again some time in the future.

[myslead]

No problem. In an interview with Brian Bendis, he acknowledged that we will see Cage bring out the crowbar again some time in the future.

ooooh. that will bring the hurt.

[XPac]

No problem. In an interview with Brian Bendis, he acknowledged that we will see Cage bring out the crowbar again some time in the future.

Haven't we seen Wrecker with his crowbar since then though? Were they in TBolts?

I'd be suprised if Cage still has the thing. And if he does, I wonder why he hasn't used it yet.

[myslead]

now that I think about it, i think i saw him in the omega flight 1 preview.

[Madison Carter]

Keep in mind (and this is not saying it IS what is happening should Cage have the crowbar still) that the Wrecking Crew can and have willed some of their power to other objects and people in the past (such as Excavator). All Wrecker would have to do is convince the others to give the new crowbar he bought at Sears a little juice of theirs.

[MAK15]

Haven't we seen Wrecker with his crowbar since then though? Were they in TBolts?

I'd be suprised if Cage still has the thing. And if he does, I wonder why he hasn't used it yet.

in Toxin 4 Wrecker and Piledriver go to get rthe Wrecker's spare crowbar from under an art museum. Toxin actually uses tht crowbar to beat Piledriver and Wrecker sensless. So im guessin the crowbar wrecker sports now is from the art museum.

[XPac]

in Toxin 4 Wrecker and Piledriver go to get rthe Wrecker's spare crowbar from under an art museum. Toxin actually uses tht crowbar to beat Piledriver and Wrecker sensless. So im guessin the crowbar wrecker sports now is from the art museum.

Hmmm... so when Wrecker was given his Asgardian powers, they actually gave him a spare Crowbar? Which he hid under an art museum?

Well, ya can't say they didn't have a good deal of foresight and planning.

[MAK15]

Hmmm... so when Wrecker was given his Asgardian powers, they actually gave him a spare Crowbar? Which he hid under an art museum?

Well, ya can't say they didn't have a good deal of foresight and planning.

Im not sure where the spare came from myself, but since he used to leave crowbar's at his robberies, he might've had another one on him, or he simply transfered some juice between to sticks in case something happened.

[Berkey]

My shop just got some copies in and I skimmed it as of now but didn't see ghost rider anywhere in the main section or in the back with the rest of the pictures, which strenghtens my theory that his COW label was nothing more than getting people to buy it to complete their CW collection.

[MAK15]

My shop just got some copies in and I skimmed it as of now but didn't see ghost rider anywhere in the main section or in the back with the rest of the pictures, which strenghtens my theory that his COW label was nothing more than getting people to buy it to complete their CW collection.

oh come on!
he's fighitng satan-jackolantern!
thats more than enough to buy the book!

[Dark Ben]

Im not sure where the spare came from myself, but since he used to leave crowbar's at his robberies, he might've had another one on him, or he simply transfered some juice between to sticks in case something happened.
I would have personnaly transfered some juice to a gaitlin or a shotgun, but that's personnal

[bulbasteve]

I wonder why Kaine was listed as an enemy combatant...

[Dark Ben]

I wonder why Kaine was listed as an enemy combatant...
Gosh I didn't even know Kaine was still alive...
I think he is classified as an enemy since he vowed to destroy Norman Osborn

[SKJAM!]

A couple more "continuity cleanups" from Frontline--

Stark claims not to know why Battlestar's back injury wasn't treated, but blows it off since Battlestar recovered enough to participate in the breakout fight.

And the guy who formed a hand into a gun to commit suicide? (Digitek?) Stark claims to believe that he's not dead, and it was part of an elaborate escape scheme.

[bulbasteve]

Gosh I didn't even know Kaine was still alive...
I think he is classified as an enemy since he vowed to destroy Norman Osborn

Or just cause he is a "bad guy" I guess... Damn way to rain on my parade... clones would be way better than the stuff JMS is writing :D

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Re: The Great Britain entry.

This has a few contradictions...

I notice that neither Chris Claremont nor Paul Cornell were thanked in the 'With Thanks' box at the front of the book. Not surprising - as this does not match current events. These are the guys actually writing the Uk based stories. I do wonder if whoever put this together was actually reading them...

As far as I am aware Micromax does not work for MI-13. MI-13 in Wisdom is a team of five - Pete Wisdom, Tink, John the Skrull, Captain Midlands and Maureen Raven. Their purpose is to do the dirty work of actually combating Paranormal Issues. Whereas Alistaire Stuart, these days working for MI-6, continues to research them in a non-combat manner - and gets a bit p***ed off when Wisdom treads on his toes in that respect. Scott Wright (Micromax) works for MI-6 as he has done for several years, I believe.

Alistaire Stuart has never had sandy brown hair, and right now is grey and almost totally bald - See Wisdom #4.

Lance hunter was never involved with the armed forces 'Paranormal' section in panel. He used to run S.T.R.I.K.E. the British arm of S.H.I.E.L.D. until it disbanded. Alysande Stuart, twin sister of Alistaire (Killed by Jamie Braddock in Excalibur) used to fulfill that role. While it is possible, and in fact logical, that Hunter would take over from Alysande we have not seen it in panel. And besides which, the role he is written as playing there is performed by MI-13. Sure, they're going to need back-up, but we have never heard this referred to and it appears to contradict stories in print within New Excalibur and Wisdom over the last year.

Notice that Pete Wisdom is also NOT credited as being head of MI-13. Something which really aught to be noted in a meeting like this..

The bottom line is that Chris Claremont and Paul Cornell are the two writers responsible, right now, for the writing of all of Marvel's UK based material. I am pleased that whoever wrote this has researched into how laws are passed in the UK, as noted in that text, but I think it's pretty shoddy that they have written this without acknowledging the current landscape or discussing it with the writers involved. I am concerned that this might become canon which has never been touched by the books which are supposed to deal with this.

[bulbasteve]

The bottom line is that Chris Claremont and Paul Cornell are the two writers responsible, right now, for the writing of all of Marvel's UK based material. I am pleased that whoever wrote this has researched into how laws are passed in the UK, as noted in that text, but I think it's pretty shoddy that they have written this without acknowledging the current landscape or discussing it with the writers involved. I am concerned that this might become canon which has never been touched by the books which are supposed to deal with this.

Nah they even messed that up. As I recall they made it out like the House of Lords was a true coequal branch and it was somehow in doubt that the registration act would pass, when really all they can do is delay a bill for a year. So in point of fact there will be a registration act in in the UK.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Nah they even messed that up. As I recall they made it out like the House of Lords was a true coequal branch and it was somehow in doubt that the registration act would pass, when really all they can do is delay a bill for a year. So in point of fact there will be a registration act in in the UK.

The only way, in reality, the law would be thrown out is iof the public outcry were enough for it to be pulled before it becomes law. The Lords can only throw it out three times before it HAS to become law. But if the party of government were to believe that forcing the act through would genuinely lose them public votes they could reconsider. Unlikely, but possible.

[Loki]

Re: The Great Britain entry.
This has a few contradictions...

I notice that neither Chris Claremont nor Paul Cornell were thanked in the 'With Thanks' box at the front of the book. Not surprising - as this does not match current events. These are the guys actually writing the Uk based stories. I do wonder if whoever put this together was actually reading them...

While I wasn't the writer of the entry, I did have some input. The entry was written well before any of us knew about Wisdom, and once we became aware of it and had read the first few scripts we did (afaik) chat with Paul about the Battle Damage entry.

As far as I am aware Micromax does not work for MI-13.
I don't think Micromax has ever clarified which government department he currently works for. MI-13 is a relatively new section of the British Intelligence services, and as we've seen in Wisdom, the various services seem to be having a level of jurisdictional arguing going on, with personnel being shifted from one to the other. If Micromax is MI-6, then he could help Bishop in Civil War X-Men, but he shouldn't be helping clear up after a terrorist attack in the UK in Union Jack, because MI-6 aren't meant to operate within the UK. But similarly, if he is MI-5 (and thus able to help clear up after Union Jack), then he shouldn't be operating overseas. In theory, as part of MI-13 he should be able to do both. The most likely scenario is that Micromax is being passed from department to department; at the time of Civil War (which is after Union Jack) he was working for MI-13.

MI-13 in Wisdom is a team of five - Pete Wisdom, Tink, John the Skrull, Captain Midlands and Maureen Raven.
Its not just them - there's also other staff, and potentially other paranormal operatives who aren't on Wisdom's team. The OO's aren't the only agents of MI-6, the characters from Spooks aren't the only MI-5 officers, and Pete's team isn't the only set of MI-13 agents around. We've seen that in Excalibur; remember the female agent the Warwolves killed?

Their purpose is to do the dirty work of actually combating Paranormal Issues. Whereas Alistaire Stuart, these days working for MI-6, continues to research them in a non-combat manner - and gets a bit p***ed off when Wisdom treads on his toes in that respect.

That kind of overlap is very common, at least in Marvel. There was a time when WHO, RCX and FI-6 were all operating at the same time, with largely overlapping mandates. And again, there were seen to be jurisdictional arguing going on as to who actually was meant to deal with what.

Or put it another way; if MI-13 handle Paranormal Issues, why did MI-5 handle the paranormal terrorist attack on London in Union Jack? Presumably because MI-13 said "we deal with Paranormal issues, this falls under our remit" and MI-5 said "and we deal with terrorist threats to the UK, we have seniority, back off and let us handle this".

Scott Wright (Micromax) works for MI-6 as he has done for several years, I believe.

Nope. He used to work for FI-6, then RCX, then quit the service and worked for the Brand Corporation, and now has gone back to working for the intelligence services, without it being specified which one, at least till now. Clearly around the time of Civil War at least, he was with MI-13.

Cut into two because the text was too long for a single posting.

[Loki]

Alistaire Stuart has never had sandy brown hair, and right now is grey and almost totally bald - See Wisdom #4.

On the hair, fair comment. On being grey now, how quickly did Phillip Schofield suddenly become grey - or at least, how quickly did he suddenly become grey once he stopped colouring it to hide the fact it had been going that way? Perhaps hair dye is the excuse for both the differing colour, and the overuse of same to blame for the sudden baldness. :p

Joking aside, Scott Kolins drew that art several months ago and based Alistaire's appearance on his established look. He wasn't to know it would be so radically revised in Wisdom.

Lance hunter was never involved with the armed forces 'Paranormal' section in panel. He used to run S.T.R.I.K.E. the British arm of S.H.I.E.L.D. until it disbanded.

Okay, I have to take issue here. If you are going to talk about the entry getting it wrong, you need to get your own details right. STRIKE was NEVER an arm of SHIELD. First, SHIELD is an international agency; why on Earth would Britain get to have their own specially renamed subsection, and yet every other country, including the USA and USSR, have to make do with the generic brand? Second, if STRIKE was a part of SHIELD then why did Lance Hunter order Nick Fury around when they met? If he was Fury's subordinate (which would be the case if he was part of SHIELD), then Fury would never take that; if however (as was the case) he was the head of his own, independent agency and Fury knew he was on Hunter's territory, then Fury would accept that Hunter had final say. Third, if STRIKE was part of SHIELD, how could the British government suddenly dissolve it following the Jaspers Warp incident? If it wasn't run by the British government, they had no place dismantling it and reassigning all its staff to other British agencies. Fourth, if STRIKE were part of SHIELD, how come the larger agency never cottoned on to Viper's organisation taking STRIKE over - you'd hope they'd have noticed something at least.

STRIKE was a wholy British agency modelled on the SHIELD template, but it wasn't part of SHIELD.

As for Lance, we don't know how long he was part of STRIKE, or if he was still part of it when it disbanded. He gave his rank as Commander at the time, suggesting he was armed forces (something Battle Damage confirms, as he is now a Commodore and noted as being Royal Navy). In the British Navy you usually do between 2 and 4 years in a giving posting before moving on to another posting. STRIKE was being run by Tod Radcliffe until he turned out to be a traitor, at which point Lance Hunter showed up, said he'd appointed Radcliffe and that he was the head of the agency. The likely explanation was that Hunter had been in charge of STRIKE until recently, before handing it over to Radcliffe, and when Radcliffe was shown to be a traitor, Hunter had been called back to take up the reigns, as the only other man who knew the agency well enough to take over in the middle of a crisis (the Red Skull's kidnapping of the PM). The info in Battle Damage is new information, just like you can get in any other comic; Hunter clearly finished his time with STRIKE and moved on to another posting at some point prior to Viper moving on the organisation.

The armed forces paranormal section was inspired in part by the real world - when MI-5 need firepower to back them up, the call in either Special Branch (in Marvel the paranormal equivalent would probably be Dai Thomas' taskforce) or Special Forces (hence the paranormal threat section of the armed forces) - and in part by Marvel's established precedent - WHO was clearly part military, as you note below. Making Lance Hunter the man in charge of it was both logical, and a nice way to have a nod to a character we haven't seen in a while. Its existence doesn't contradict Wisdom - as I said, MI-13's relatively new, and there's jurisdictional overlaps. Or, to put it another way, since MI-5 and MI-6 clearly aren't overly fond of MI-13, if they need heavy firepower to deal with paranormals they are more likely to call in Hunter's mob than turn to MI-13.

Alysande Stuart, twin sister of Alistaire (Killed by Jamie Braddock in Excalibur) used to fulfill that role. While it is possible, and in fact logical, that Hunter would take over from Alysande we have not seen it in panel.

New information, seen in panel in Battle Damage.

And besides which, the role he is written as playing there is performed by MI-13.
Explained above, and indeed by your very next sentence.

Sure, they're going to need back-up, but we have never heard this referred to
Again, new information.

and it appears to contradict stories in print within New Excalibur and Wisdom over the last year.

Not really. The portrayal of British intelligence in Marvel comics (and indeed US intelligence services) has always been a bit of a hodge-podge, with new agencies popping up left, right and centre, doing the same job as old agencies. The best explanation is that nobody does that good a job dealing with paranormal problems, so politicians wishing to be seen by the voters to be addressing paranormal issues keep setting up yet another intelligence branch dedicated to dealing with the problem.

Notice that Pete Wisdom is also NOT credited as being head of MI-13. Something which really aught to be noted in a meeting like this..
At the start of New Excalibur, Wisdom clearly isn't the head of MI-13. It seems he got a promotion recently, and presumably Stark wasn't aware of it.

The bottom line is that Chris Claremont and Paul Cornell are the two writers responsible, right now, for the writing of all of Marvel's UK based material.
And so was Chris Gage until the Union Jack mini ended. What they had established was kept in mind when this entry was written.

I am pleased that whoever wrote this has researched into how laws are passed in the UK, as noted in that text, but I think it's pretty shoddy that they have written this without acknowledging the current landscape or discussing it with the writers involved.

"acknowledging the current landscape" - the current landscape was acknowledged, but with two series currently running and one just finished, all of which deal with British intelligence to some degree, that landscape is constantly moving. And Paul's MI-13 doesn't entirely mesh with Claremont's MI-13, but that's simply because MI-13 is itself evolving.

"discussing it with the writers involved" - not being the Battle Damage writer I can't say if Claremont was involved, but afaik Paul was told what the entry said, and again afaik he didn't see any problems with it.

I am concerned that this might become canon which has never been touched by the books which are supposed to deal with this.

It became canon the moment it got published, just like all the other comics.

[JessMix]

My favorite part of Civil War: Battle Damage Report was when they described all the other country's reactions to the war. Priceless ;)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

On the hair, fair comment. On being grey now, how quickly did Phillip Schofield suddenly become grey - or at least, how quickly did he suddenly become grey once he stopped colouring it to hide the fact it had been going that way? Perhaps hair dye is the excuse for both the differing colour, and the overuse of same to blame for the sudden baldness. :p

Actually, Paul Cornell answered my query on this at Millarworld's forums, thusly:

I think it must be a continuity thing I'm not aware of. I did query why he looked so old, but everyone seemed happy with it. I may try to retcon it in the last issue.

So it may yet get changed... ;)

Joking aside, Scott Kolins drew that art several months ago and based Alistaire's appearance on his established look. He wasn't to know it would be so radically revised in Wisdom.

Granted, he probably wasn't to know. I just guess I'm a little disappointed that Wisdom as a series made changes to the landscape of British Intelligence back in November, and yet this hasn't really be acvknowledge outside of that book, yet.

Okay, I have to take issue here. If you are going to talk about the entry getting it wrong, you need to get your own details right. STRIKE was NEVER an arm of SHIELD. First, SHIELD is an international agency; why on Earth would Britain get to have their own specially renamed subsection, and yet every other country, including the USA and USSR, have to make do with the generic brand? Second, if STRIKE was a part of SHIELD then why did Lance Hunter order Nick Fury around when they met? If he was Fury's subordinate (which would be the case if he was part of SHIELD), then Fury would never take that; if however (as was the case) he was the head of his own, independent agency and Fury knew he was on Hunter's territory, then Fury would accept that Hunter had final say. Third, if STRIKE was part of SHIELD, how could the British government suddenly dissolve it following the Jaspers Warp incident? If it wasn't run by the British government, they had no place dismantling it and reassigning all its staff to other British agencies. Fourth, if STRIKE were part of SHIELD, how come the larger agency never cottoned on to Viper's organisation taking STRIKE over - you'd hope they'd have noticed something at least.

STRIKE was a wholy British agency modelled on the SHIELD template, but it wasn't part of SHIELD.

You know what? I wasn't entirely aware of that... ;)

By the time I was at an age that I was reading comics Alan Moore was writing Captain Britain. I recently read the early issues, involving STRIKE, reprinted as the UK published Captain Britain: Birth of a Legentd vol.1 TPB. And I guess that's something I didn't really pick up on. I assumed by sister organization it meant an actual link, rather than a seperate entity. My mistake. I've kind of not responded to the rest of your comment there because of that.

I think Lance Hunter would have been the perfect, and logical, replacement for Brigadier Alysande Stuart, after her death. I guess I want to see thiscovered in panel, now.

At the start of New Excalibur, Wisdom clearly isn't the head of MI-13. It seems he got a promotion recently, and presumably Stark wasn't aware of it.

Actually that is not the case. He was in charge of MI-13 in House of M: The Day after, although he was still reporting to a superior (Grimsdale?) and right from the start of New Excalibur. He was certainly running the day to day dealings of the team though. That was what gave him the authority to try and assemble the team that became New Excalibur. That was what gave him the authority to get the juggernaut's record cleared of criminal charges to get him on said team.

I think that people didn't really cotton on to this at the time, partly because people have only chiefly encountered him as he was in Warren Ellis' Excalibur run - knowledgeable, but not running the show. In X-Force he and Alistaire Stuart masterminded Wisdom's apparent death as part of a plan to use X-Force as their own private army to take out Pete's sister, Romany Wisdom, who had being terying to allow an alien species to colonize the Earth. Back then X-Force look up to him as a mentor. He always had that potential, but until now he hasn't really had the chance to show it.

I'm pretty sure Claremont himself mentioned Wisdom running the show in interview. It was Paul Cornell who actually fleshed this out, though. I'm sure Claremont would have, had he been writing New Excalibur for more of 2006.

And so was Chris Gage until the Union Jack mini ended. What they had established was kept in mind when this entry was written.

Nothing from Christo Gage's series would have caused a problem, mind you. It played with the existing framework. I'm sure that's why he and the Contessa are in that picture. It was a really good series, and I wish something more of thsat tone was employed to New Excalibur.

"acknowledging the current landscape" - the current landscape was acknowledged, but with two series currently running and one just finished, all of which deal with British intelligence to some degree, that landscape is constantly moving. And Paul's MI-13 doesn't entirely mesh with Claremont's MI-13, but that's simply because MI-13 is itself evolving.

What I meant by acknowledging is that Wisdom and New Excalibur are the active titkles, right now. If Cornell hasn't put Micromax on MI-13, and he's known to work with MI-6 it doesn't entirely make sense to put him there in this article, you know. And no Paul's version doesn't entirely mesh, but largely because Claremont didn't actually provide any information on MI-13 beyond Wisdom running it. Frank Tieri showed some footsoldiers in New Excalibur #9. I think from a practical point of view these would be Lance Hunter's guys, if we're going by this article. But Cornell created a team out of an area of plot as of yet unwritten.

It became canon the moment it got published, just like all the other comics.

I'm not debating that. Nobody can. :D What I meant was that what is referenced here does not neatly sit with what we've been told more recently in Wisdom and plausibly what we wre not told, more than told, at the start of New Excalibur. My fear is that while other Marvel Universe titles may decide to follow this article as law Chris Claremont may not be aware of it so much, and we could end up with some very fudged continuity because of it in the next 12 months. For one, with a new seven part arc starting in the next issue of New Excalibur this proposed dradft is unlikely to BE mentioned for at least the next 7 months.

[Kefky]

Isn't the Wisdom mini out-of-continuity because it's MAX? I'm pretty sure Cornell said that it was in a newsarama interview...

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Isn't the Wisdom mini out-of-continuity because it's MAX? I'm pretty sure Cornell said that it was in a newsarama interview...

No. It's in continuity. Probably the best Wisdom's been written since Ellis, as well. The series began with Wisdom trying to contact Kitty Pryde, after their re-encountering each other in New Excalibur #'s1-3.

[DaNerd]

Reading Battle Damage Report it seems that this was a printed report by Ironman to I assume the Prez and his staff? IF so, Ironman kept promising everyone that the SHRA would NOT put their names out, that he would keep them safe.

A published report can be leaked, so basically he has broken his word and made them at risk.

[Kefky]

No. It's in continuity. Probably the best Wisdom's been written since Ellis, as well. The series began with Wisdom trying to contact Kitty Pryde, after their re-encountering each other in New Excalibur #'s1-3.

Okay. I guess he just meant that the book wouldn't be interacting much with the MU.

[Soundrave]

Reading Battle Damage Report it seems that this was a printed report by Ironman to I assume the Prez and his staff? IF so, Ironman kept promising everyone that the SHRA would NOT put their names out, that he would keep them safe.

A published report can be leaked, so basically he has broken his word and made them at risk.

I think it was a classified report to the president. That's not "putting their names out" at all. What would be the point of the SHRA if nobody except Iron Man would know their secret IDs?