CBR NEWS: Cross-Time Flies: Claremont Talks "Exiles"

[Jonah Weiland]

Big Changes are in store for the reality hopping cast of the "Exiles." CBR News spoke with writer Chris Claremont about what he has in store for the book and got previews of issues #92 & #93.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10068

[Beast]

Great interview. And I love that CC is playing outside the X-Box on both of his first two storylines. Finally he can stretch his legs a bit. The Doom/Richards swap in the next arc sounds kickass. :)

[ImpulseUCF]

Great interview. And I love that CC is playing outside the X-Box on both of his first two storylines. The Doom/Richards swap in the next arc sounds kickass. :)Thanks for using spoiler tags in case I didn't want to read that. :)

[Pach!]

I really hope he does some quality writing, I love Exiles, and well I haven't been a fan of Claremont's work. But I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He has a couple more issues to make me decide.

[ERoy]

Thanks for using spoiler tags in case I didn't want to read that. :)

Then you shouldn't have jumped on this page. It's silly to have a thread talking about the interview ... when you can't talk about what's in the interview.

Logic dictates that if you don't want to know Claremont's plans for the title, don't come on a thread that has an interview where Claremont talks about his plans.

[Beast]

Thanks for using spoiler tags in case I didn't want to read that. :)
It's a thread based on an interview. Spoiler tags arn't necessary if it's right in the bloody interview.

[Beast]

"Nocturne is going back to 'Exiles,'" Claremont said.

I bet Nocturne fans are happy.

[Joe Acro]

So, the first arc focuses on Psylocke. The second arc seems to focus a bit on Psylocke. Both arcs have Fantastic Four members as primary characters. Claremont doesn't seem to be straying too far from his comfort zone.

Perhaps the stories themselves will at least be decent.

[DDM]

I'm glad I added Exiles to my pull list. It makes sense Claremont wants to expand the book by giving the team A-list villains since the book seems to have disposable ones (they can exit the alternate Earth & go back to the Crystal Palace when things get hairy).

I knew Claremont was going to change the line-up a bit with Nocturne rejoining the Exiles.

Hopefully Rachel will be written in New Excalibur?

I look forward to reading Psylocke's encounter with the alternate Slaymaster...

[DDM]

So, the first arc focuses on Psylocke. The second arc seems to focus a bit on Psylocke. Both arcs have Fantastic Four members as primary characters. Claremont doesn't seem to be straying too far from his comfort zone.

Perhaps the stories themselves will at least be decent.

First rule of writing: Write what you know. Claremont knows much more about the mutant universe; therefore, he is making Psylocke his point of view character to expand outwards into other things.

[Beast]

So, the first arc focuses on Psylocke. The second arc seems to focus a bit on Psylocke. Both arcs have Fantastic Four members as primary characters. Claremont doesn't seem to be straying too far from his comfort zone.

Perhaps the stories themselves will at least be decent.
It only focuses on her, in using her as the character to introduce the Exiles to new readers. Honestly, she hasn't been the primary character in any of the 3 issues she'd appeared in. She did feature a large focus in the second one, but that was to tour the Crystal Palace, again as introduction purposes.

[Novaya Havoc]

"'Why does everybody have to be human? Why does everybody have to be mammalian even? We can have other versions and incarnations of the Marvel characters,' Claremont stated. 'Like a race of people descended from dinosaurs or insects.'"

R'CHLL!!!!!

[Pach!]

"Nocturne is going back to 'Exiles,'" Claremont said.

I bet Nocturne fans are happy.

I think most Nocturne fans have a problem with her characterization when written under Claremont, not where she is right now. I may be wrong though, since I only just skimmed through the Nocturne thread.

[Beast]

For example the new Mystique we're bringing in is actually more pronounced like 'Mystic' and its Mystique in her sort of male Basil Rathbone incarnation. This is a variation on the theme; it's a shape-shifter who was married to Irene Adler, and had a daughter Rogue but this one has lived a life as primarily a male character. It allows us to use the character but a totally different take on it."
Ok, I love the alternate take on Mystique. Can't wait to see the rest of the new cast. :)

[DDM]

"'Why does everybody have to be human? Why does everybody have to be mammalian even? We can have other versions and incarnations of the Marvel characters,' Claremont stated. 'Like a race of people descended from dinosaurs or insects.'"

R'CHLL!!!!!

To be fair, the Dinosaur people already appeared in Excalibur #9 & Excalibur #51; it could be another alternate Earth though.

[Novaya Havoc]

That interview was on the cusp of parody. Aliens, Dinosaurs, "Cross-Time," and transsexual lesbians. All it needed was "Queen Storm."

I LOVE it!

[Brian M.]

"'Why does everybody have to be human? Why does everybody have to be mammalian even? We can have other versions and incarnations of the Marvel characters,' Claremont stated. 'Like a race of people descended from dinosaurs or insects.'"

R'CHLL!!!!!

I cried a little inside when I read that. R'Chll maybe one of the worst creations ever.

Although I'm curious as to your thoughts on a possible Disco Dino Dazzler?

[Joe Acro]

First rule of writing: Write what you know. Claremont knows much more about the mutant universe; therefore, he is making Psylocke his point of view character to expand outwards into other things.Perhaps. Time will tell whether he truly expands or not.

It only focuses on her, in using her as the character to introduce the Exiles to new readers. Honestly, she hasn't been the primary character in any of the 3 issues she'd appeared in. She did feature a large focus in the second one, but that was to tour the Crystal Palace, again as introduction purposes.Well, I haven't read the most recent issue (I will do so later this week), but it seems like his second issue did do a lot of focusing on her (possibly justified) and it sounds like she'll have to critical moments in upcoming issues of this arc.

I'm not really complaining. I'm just merely making an observation.

[Novaya Havoc]

Disco Dino Dazzler?

9/10 Anthropologists ardently support the existence of a transsexual lesbian disco-dino-Dazzler.

[blinkinrogue]

CC pls pls pls pls pls leave blink where she is and you better not send her to limbo or i'll.... or i'll.... i wont like u any more HMMMMPPPHHHH......



Respect the lavender girl

[blinkinrogue]

oh, and im happy nocturne will be returning, she belongs with blink and company....

[Beast]

oh, and im happy nocturne will be returning, she belongs with blink and company....
Agreed. Though I hope she's returning for a reunion with John Proudstar, and then they retire to her reality.

[blinkinrogue]

hmmm... r those panels supposed to be continuous? when blink "stabbed" sabretooth, he didnt seem to teleport....

[widdershins]

The Dinosaurs in Excalibur 51 were the highlight of Davis' run.

[Nachturne]

"Nocturne is going back to 'Exiles,'" Claremont said.

I bet Nocturne fans are happy.

Nope. CC's still got her.

Agreed. Though I hope she's returning for a reunion with John Proudstar, and then they retire to her reality.

Why would he wanna be with the woman who aborted his baby?? But I'm all about sending her home. PLEASE.

And the rest of this?? Like.....how is he expanding anything? It sounds like the same old Claremont crap. Dinosaur people?? And him saying something like the Exiles haven't had an A-list villianous team and need it is LAUGHABLE. Weapon X?? Hello?? Hyperion?? Did this man even READ this??

And seriously...if he brings in Roma...gah. You just know he's going to thumb his nose to everything Winick set up and Bedard kinda played with by saying Roma has been behind it all the whole time. JESUS. I don't care if this guy writes, but why?! WHY!! Give him his own reality where he can write this ridiculous crap and not play with the good stuff.

My Lord must be rolling in his DC exclusive.

[blinkinrogue]

who winick or bedard?

anyways, lets give the guy a chance... who knows he might bring hyperion back too ( a character that austen actually knew how to write very well )....:)

[bfrank]

So, the first arc focuses on Psylocke. The second arc seems to focus a bit on Psylocke. Both arcs have Fantastic Four members as primary characters. Claremont doesn't seem to be straying too far from his comfort zone.

Perhaps the stories themselves will at least be decent.

yeah, i was thinkng the same thing.....

[Beast]

It was never established on panel as an abortion. That's just speculation.

And he never said that the Exiles haven't had an A-List villanous team. Re-read the interview, your bias is showing. Well, it's hard not to see. All he said is that they need one.

And no, because Tony Bedard said he and Claremont talked about CC's upcoming plans for Exiles, and that he was really excited for them. And thought they were a good direction for the book. And let's not even get to the rehashed stuff Tony Bedard did with Exiles. World Tour, anyone. Or the fact he brought in the Crystal Palace, Bugs, and the Timebroker origins, which was a "Jump the Shark" moment for Exiles.

[DDM]

Or the fact he brought in the Crystal Palace, Bugs, and the Timebroker origins, which was a "Jump the Shark" moment for Exiles.

The bugs are an awful idea.

[Flight]

Hyperion & Proteus are awesome A-list Exile villains!

[Joe Acro]

The bugs are an awful idea.
I like the bugs, but wish they would be explained.

[Frodo-X]

He really seems to have a handle on what make eXiles so great. I am so glad he gets to play with this book. Sounds like he's as excited about it as Carey is about X-men! :D

Count me in for the long haul.

[Beast]

I like the bugs, but wish they would be explained.
They were pretty well explained. It just was a massive "This is it? Meh." moment for the book.

[ImpulseUCF]

It was never established on panel as an abortion. That's just speculation.I agree that it's not canon, but it's more than speculation. Winnick has confirmed in interviews and fan-meetings that his intention was for it to be an abortion. I like that it was left ambiguous in canon, but the intent was there.

And he never said that the Exiles haven't had an A-List villanous team. Re-read the interview, your bias is showing. Well, it's hard not to see. All he said is that they need one. The way it was stated sort of implied they needed one because they haven't had one yet. All of those ideas were brought up as new and exciting observations that have all already been implemented by Winnick, Austen and Bedard, that's all.
And let's not even get to the rehashed stuff Tony Bedard did with Exiles. World Tour, anyone. Or the fact he brought in the Crystal Palace, Bugs, and the Timebroker origins, which was a "Jump the Shark" moment for Exiles.No arguments there.

[Joe Acro]

They were pretty well explained. It just was a massive "This is it? Meh." moment for the book.
I don't know the explanation. Enlighten me.

[Amokitty]

"There's going to be a lot of fairly interesting stuff happening as we get through the summer and into the fall. So, I wouldn't take anything or anyone for granted at this point. They're all on the wall."

Since Nocturne is returning to Exiles, maybe Psylocke might at some point join Excalibur?

Exiles is going back on my pull list. Sounds like Claremont has great things for fans to look forward to. :)

[ImpulseUCF]

Since Nocturne is returning to Exiles, maybe Psylocke might at some point join Excalibur?

Exiles is going back on my pull list. Sounds like Claremont has great things for fans to look forward to. :)It does seem that way. It also sounds like Psylocke's presence will be temporary, so I'm pretty optimistic.

[Beast]

I agree that it's not canon, but it's more than speculation. Winnick has confirmed in interviews and fan-meetings that his intention was for it to be an abortion. I like that it was left ambiguous in canon, but the intent was there.
Ok, speculation isn't 100% accurate. More intent. But since it's not on panel, it's up to writer interpretation. Much like with Destiny/Mystqiue's relationship until Marvel was brave enough to allow it. Or much like Mr. Sinister, it may go under various changes or be completely jettisoned.
The way it was stated sort of implied they needed one because they haven't had one yet. All of those ideas were brought up as new and exciting observations that have all already been implemented by Winnick, Austen and Bedard, that's all.
I didn't read it that way at all. Just that Marvel and CC want a current A-List recurring threat to plague the Exiles. Frankly, Albion and the Shadow X-Men would be something good to transfer to Exiles from NEX. They fit better there, being they're a part of the whole Alternate Reality network. Especially if Albion is as speculated, an Alternate Earth version of Brian. But we'll see if that is the case.

[DDM]

Since Nocturne is returning to Exiles, maybe Psylocke might at some point join Excalibur?

Exiles is going back on my pull list. Sounds like Claremont has great things for fans to look forward to. :)

I would rather Psylocke be in New Excalibur at some point too instead of Exiles.

[Beast]

I don't know the explanation. Enlighten me.
Basically.... the bugs were explorers and stumbled across the Crystal Palace. Being curious scientists they figured out how it works, and used it to explore other realities. During one of their missions, they managed to cause major damage to one of the realities, which broke it and caused a domino effect threatening other realities. Being pacifist scientists, they decided to recruit heroes to fix the broken realities. They used the Timebroker interface program to create a being that would be sympathetic individual that the individuals they recruited would trust. While also pushing blame off themselves by having it say that it was a construct formed of their collective consciousness. It's also not entirely clear, but it appears the bugs were having the Timebroker lie about each character's risks/fates if they didn't serve. It really isn't a very satisfying idea, and honestly was one of the things I disliked about Bedard's run. World Tour dragged a lot as well, imho.

[ImpulseUCF]

I didn't read it that way at all. Just that Marvel and CC want a current A-List recurring threat to plague the Exiles. Frankly, Albion and the Shadow X-Men would be something good to transfer to Exiles from NEX. They fit better there, being they're a part of the whole Alternate Reality network. Especially if Albion is as speculated, an Alternate Earth version of Brian. But we'll see if that is the case.Ehh...I don't like the idea of including tired, rehashed, cornball ideas like Shadow X-Men as an ongoing enemy. Claremont said himself the possibilities are endless; why resort to a rehash of a rehash of a tired concept? Stretch the creative legs! Why rely on established characters, threats and ideas? Albion has been around for a while. Leave him be.

I'd prefer Exiles and NEX stay separate outside of the crossover, which looks to set a few things right. I don't care for NEX, so I'd prefer not to have anything tagged onto the near limitless potential of Exiles from something I am not interested in reading about and am avoiding to begin with.

[Beast]

Albion's been around for a while? Bwah? He's barely a year old character.

[Joe Acro]

Explanation of bugs + opinion.
And yet, that still doesn't explain where they came from. I suppose that bit of information will remain as well-guarded a secret as the Phantom Stranger's true origin.

I really liked that twist and like what's become of it. But I guess that's not really what this thread is about, so I'll move on...

[Omega Alpha]

I would rather Psylocke be in New Excalibur at some point too instead of Exiles.

Exactly. If she has to stay with Claremont, she should be at least in a book in which other writers can use her eventually, and one where 616 characters are supposed to be.

[Mariah]

CC pls pls pls pls pls leave blink where she is and you better not send her to limbo or i'll.... or i'll.... i wont like u any more HMMMMPPPHHHH......



Respect the lavender girl
I read in an interview over on Newsarama(the same one where it discusses Queen Storm) that he was planning on switching Psylocke and Blink's powers. You know, like he did with Psylocke and Phoenix. HACK.

[Omega Alpha]

I read in an interview over on Newsarama(the same one where it discusses Queen Storm) that he was planning on switching Psylocke and Blink's powers. You know, like he did with Psylocke and Phoenix. HACK.

Oh, my. Just oh, my. :(

[Novaya Havoc]

I read in an interview over on Newsarama(the same one where it discusses Queen Storm) that he was planning on switching Psylocke and Blink's powers. You know, like he did with Psylocke and Phoenix. HACK.

Honey, you know that that interview is not real, right? lol

Though judging by this one, the two sound uncannily similar!

[Beast]

I read in an interview over on Newsarama(the same one where it discusses Queen Storm) that he was planning on switching Psylocke and Blink's powers. You know, like he did with Psylocke and Phoenix. HACK.
Can you please not start unfounded rumors? Is that too much to ask?

[Beast]

Damn server. Double post. :p

[Mariah]

Honey, you know that that interview is not real, right? lol

Though judging by this one, the two sound uncannily similar!
What? No! Argh! Lol, I rescind my previous comments! Such a fool!

[Novaya Havoc]

Can you please not start unfounded rumors? Is that too much to ask?

It was a real quote. Just a fake interview. It's not some "unfounded rumor," though the mock interview was done up very well. :D

[DDM]

Exactly. If she has to stay with Claremont, she should be at least in a book in which other writers can use her eventually, and one where 616 characters are supposed to be.

Hopefully, Claremont can get Rachel Grey & Psylocke into New Excalibur to he can at last untangle Psylocke & Rachel's connection created by Jamie Braddock...

[DDM]

Ehh...I don't like the idea of including tired, rehashed, cornball ideas like Shadow X-Men as an ongoing enemy. Claremont said himself the possibilities are endless; why resort to a rehash of a rehash of a tired concept? Stretch the creative legs! Why rely on established characters, threats and ideas? Albion has been around for a while. Leave him be.

The Shadow X-Men & Albion II are new characters.

[blinkinrogue]

I read in an interview over on Newsarama(the same one where it discusses Queen Storm) that he was planning on switching Psylocke and Blink's powers. You know, like he did with Psylocke and Phoenix. HACK.


WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT.... no way no way no way.... grrrrrr... that is y i like blink, honestly, her powers, although teleportation-based, is pretty unique and no he wants to switch powers??? WTF.... and i betsy will have the blink codename now and clarice gets psylocke? BARFS... pls cc u can do better than that... but you did say planning so grrrrrrrr it better remain as a plan

[blinkinrogue]

ok, sorry i just read some of the responses, ok i can breathe better... sorry haha i overreacted...
anyway, who was that woman elektra got out of that case???

[Brian M.]

Hopefully, Claremont can get Rachel Grey & Psylocke into New Excalibur to he can at last untangle Psylocke & Rachel's connection created by Jamie Braddock...

I bet it's sexual.

[ImpulseUCF]

The Shadow X-Men & Albion II are new characters.False. Both have already been introduced. I don't want existing characters or concepts when the potential for storytelling is basically limitless. Claremont even said so himself.

And the Shadow X-Men are stupid, new or not. :P
As for Albion, what Exiles does not need is to be tied further to Excalibur or Captain Britain. That's what.. Excalibur is for!

[dazzler_slave]

He was warranting that Claremont was always saintly and pleasant to others.
Darling! You're letting your hatred of CC waylay this thread. We all know how much you dislike him, but just insulting him and bringing up stuff from the 80's doesn't help anyone. All TLO was saying is that CC is known to be very respectful of other people's work - which is true. He IS known for that. Whether or not he was a jerk one time in the early 80's doesn't really matter in the long run. We can all be jerks from time to time, including Mr. Byrne...:D

[Kalen O.]

Plus, whether or not the Dark X-Men and Albion are new characters, their premise isn't exactly unique, and I think that's the point. Hell how many times has Claremont used the teammates brainwashed/turned evil/forced to fight against each other and dark/villainous/alternate reality versions of heroes shtick himself? I can't even name them all off the top of my head, and that's when its time to retire a plot point, IMO. Just....some new, original villains please.

[DDM]

False. Both have already been introduced. I don't want existing characters or concepts when the potential for storytelling is basically limitless. Claremont even said so himself.

Introduced, yes, but they are relatively new characters who have first appeared within New Excalibur #1-6 then Claremont was off the book due to his illness until New Excalibur #17.

The Shadow X-Men come from an Earth in which the Shadow King--in Xavier's body--founded & corrupted them. You may find this idea dull or boring, yet you cared enough to post your opinion here.

And the Shadow X-Men are stupid, new or not. :P
As for Albion, what Exiles does not need is to be tied further to Excalibur or Captain Britain. That's what.. Excalibur is for!

Exiles deals specifically with alternate realities; whereas, Captain Britain's very foundation is based on Otherworld & all of the alternate realities it encompasses. Therefore, both book intersect with certain themes. Roma & Otherworld will more than likely have big role in New Excalibur & Exiles. Roma did change the Crystal Castle's computer to pull Psylocke from Earth-616 & she made Psylocke invisible to the Crystal Castle's technology. There is going to be an Exiles-New Excalibur limited series.

[Brett P]

"Nocturne is going back to 'Exiles,'" Claremont said.

I bet Nocturne fans are happy.

You bet I am! :D

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hopefully Rachel will be written in New Excalibur?

That would make my day. I truly hope it happens.

I look forward to reading Psylocke's encounter with the alternate Slaymaster...

Slaymaster was such a brilliant villain. Another one I wished had survived to today. The second I saw his name in the solicits a few months back I was intrigued. I look forward to this story a lot.

"Nocturne is going back to 'Exiles,'" Claremont said.

I bet Nocturne fans are happy.

I'm actually a bit disappointed with that. I like Nocturne as a character and really hoped she'd set down proper roots in 616 Britain. :(

Oh well, at least she's not going back into limbo, and I guess eXiles is her home title, as it were.

9/10 Anthropologists ardently support the existence of a transsexual lesbian disco-dino-Dazzler.

Lol. You crack me up sometimes...:D

Nope. CC's still got her.

Oh, give it a rest... :D

And the rest of this?? Like.....how is he expanding anything? It sounds like the same old Claremont crap. Dinosaur people?? And him saying something like the Exiles haven't had an A-list villianous team and need it is LAUGHABLE. Weapon X?? Hello?? Hyperion?? Did this man even READ this

And seriously...if he brings in Roma...gah. You just know he's going to thumb his nose to everything Winick set up and Bedard kinda played with by saying Roma has been behind it all the whole time. JESUS. I don't care if this guy writes, but why?! WHY!! Give him his own reality where he can write this ridiculous crap and not play with the good stuff.

The problem is Nachturne that eXiles has spent 89 issues of it's life time skirting around the major concepts of the Marvel Multiverse - as if they didn't exist. I love the series but I've been wondering since day one quite how and why this team has been able to tweak so many dimensions in the Multiverse without Roma realising. She guards the WHOLE Multiverse, but doesn't notice this? HOW? WHY?

You may not like all the multiple dimensions which are populated by intelligent insects, animals or Dinosaurs but they've been show before. Winnick, Bedard and Exiles didn't create the Multiverse. They inherited it from all the work Alan Moore and Chris Claremont did on it through the 80s. Just because they chose to ignore all that continuity doesn't mean that it never happened. And frankly it's about time that it DID.

Since Nocturne is returning to Exiles, maybe Psylocke might at some point join Excalibur?

Could be. I'd certainly like her there. The Braddocks haven't been properly reunited on a title since the 80s. It's well overdue.

Ehh...I don't like the idea of including tired, rehashed, cornball ideas like Shadow X-Men as an ongoing enemy. Claremont said himself the possibilities are endless; why resort to a rehash of a rehash of a tired concept? Stretch the creative legs! Why rely on established characters, threats and ideas? Albion has been around for a while. Leave him be.

Um... what?!? Since when exactly has the Shadow King been outside of 616 before in continuity? The Shadow X-Men were his trophies from another dimension. They were new characters.

And Albion? Albion debuted in New Excalibur #4, last year, to start a plot which has only now been able to be brought back in, now that Claremont is able to write the book again.

These are not old characters. Not even in dog years.

Hopefully, Claremont can get Rachel Grey & Psylocke into New Excalibur to he can at last untangle Psylocke & Rachel's connection created by Jamie Braddock...

Yes. That would work out for me. All three Braddocks on one book, and Rachel's link to them explained - bonus!

[Scavenger]

Also, Spidey 2099 meets Gwen Stacy on this world and nature takes its course.

Gwen: Hi Peter...love the new costume:
Miguel: Peter? Oh right...the original Spider-Man. I met him once. Nice kid.
Gwen: Kid?
Miguel: Yeah (pulls off mask-revealing the rather older than Peter Parker, Miquel O'Hara). Bout your age, I'd guess. Who are you?
Gwen: I'm Gwen. I'm a high school girl who likes to have sex with super powered corporate executives.
Miguel: Well, I do have my own corporation back home....


Really, someone point out the Spider-Man 2099 isn't Spider-Man...Bedard didn't seem to get this either....AND HE DOESN'T WEB SWING!!!

[Nachturne]

Oh, give it a rest... :D

Oh, I will. When Claremont writes her properly (see: monkey's fly out of ones butt. I kid! I kid! Butt monkeys, get it! :P)



The problem is Nachturne that eXiles has spent 89 issues of it's life time skirting around the major concepts of the Marvel Multiverse - as if they didn't exist. I love the series but I've been wondering since day one quite how and why this team has been able to tweak so many dimensions in the Multiverse without Roma realising. She guards the WHOLE Multiverse, but doesn't notice this? HOW? WHY?

You may not like all the multiple dimensions which are populated by intelligent insects, animals or Dinosaurs but they've been show before. Winnick, Bedard and Exiles didn't create the Multiverse. They inherited it from all the work Alan Moore and Chris Claremont did on it through the 80s. Just because they chose to ignore all that continuity doesn't mean that it never happened. And frankly it's about time that it DID.

Who said that the multiverse has to be connected in any way to what was written in the 80s?? Its the MULTIVERSE. There are INFINITE possibilities, so why even mention anything thats ever been written before? I mean for a book that actually benefits from a lack of continuity, why apply continuity??

And Roma is lame. No matter how you slice it.


Um... what?!? Since when exactly has the Shadow King been outside of 616 before in continuity? The Shadow X-Men were his trophies from another dimension. They were new characters.

And Albion? Albion debuted in New Excalibur #4, last year, to start a plot which has only now been able to be brought back in, now that Claremont is able to write the book again.

Dude, they are old concepts. When a writer has the ability to write ANYTHING in the entire UNIVERSE, why keep faling back on similar concepts?? New new new!!! Why is that so much to ask??

[Beast]

You want Nocturne's continuity respected so badly. Yet are bemoaning the fact that established continuity about the multiverse is becoming a part of a book. That seems a bit silly, in my opinion. And no, Exiles has never benefited from a lack of continuity. Especially considering it has ties to the Age of Apocalypse and most of it's stories from the beginning have been new takes on old/similar concepts.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Oh, I will. When Claremont writes her properly (see: monkey's fly out of ones butt. I kid! I kid! Butt monkeys, get it! :P)

I see what you did there... :rolleyes: :D

Who said that the multiverse has to be connected in any way to what was written in the 80s?? Its the MULTIVERSE. There are INFINITE possibilities, so why even mention anything thats ever been written before? I mean for a book that actually benefits from a lack of continuity, why apply continuity??

I think your missing the point here Nocturne. Roma oversees the entire Marvel Multiverse. It's HER multiverse. Before her it was her father, Merlyn, who had the same role within the Multiverse. She is, and he was, guardian of the infinite number of alternate universes in the Marvel Multiverse, in their entirety. Every single one. They are practically Gods, who live on forever, in a Watcher style capacity - only they can actually get involved in putting things right when they go wrong.

Exiles has always ignored this central concept, one which flows from its revelation at the end of the 70s right through to present day. Ignored it - from its very inception and premise. Now surely that's something you can understand? Why should there be a problem in finally getting eXiles to acknowledge it?

[Nachturne]

Claremont uses mind control in everything he does. When he stops using it in EVERY SINGLE story he tells, then tell me that this Shadow Xmen crap wasn't like...the exact same stroy he's already told just with different characters. Thats what I mean by the same concepts. It's the exact same stuff just with new faces. Exiles in the beginning was "What if?" but it's evolved more to be more about these odd and diverging worlds where ANYTHING is possible. So why bog it down with stuff we've seen when ANYTHING is possible?? And why is Slaymaster, (THE Slaymaster, not an AU Slaymaster. But THE Slaymaster who dug out Betsy's eyes) appearing here? Why a 616 villian we've already seen? Why not someone new? Or an alternate version of someone we know?

And there's a huge difference between Nocturne's continuity and the multiverse continuity, in the the multiverse's continuity is ENDLESS. All you have yo do is say "Hey, Roma runs that part of the multiverse, and the bugs are screwing with this part of the multiverse, and neither are aware of the other" and your not stepping on anyones toes or disrespecting anyones continuity. Just adding something new without having to worry about anything thats already there. And FREEING yourself up to tell stories that are new and COMPLETELY different than anything we've seen.

Man...I miss when Exiles was like that...where the stories took characters we knew and showed them in a way we'd never expect...and yet still focused itself on its main characters.

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm surprised no one has brought up "Mystic," the transsexual lesbian mother of Rogue and sugarmomma of Destiny.

TOLD you Claremont <3s lesbians in his stories.

[xmanson]

Ha, in their second arc Exiles already went to the expected place with a Dark phoenix arc. I was kinda disappointed in that.

The first 3 CC issues have been a blast. Very fun material, with great ction scenes, something the book never really had under Winnick, for instance, who did great charcater issues but lacked at all the rest.

[Beast]

Claremont uses mind control in everything he does. When he stops using it in EVERY SINGLE story he tells, then tell me that this Shadow Xmen crap wasn't like...the exact same stroy he's already told just with different characters. Thats what I mean by the same concepts. It's the exact same stuff just with new faces. Exiles in the beginning was "What if?" but it's evolved more to be more about these odd and diverging worlds where ANYTHING is possible. So why bog it down with stuff we've seen when ANYTHING is possible?? And why is Slaymaster, (THE Slaymaster, not an AU Slaymaster. But THE Slaymaster who dug out Betsy's eyes) appearing here? Why a 616 villian we've already seen? Why not someone new? Or an alternate version of someone we know?
Mind control is an established storyline that every writer uses. We're dealing with superheroes with telepathic powers and characters like Shadow King and Nocturne who possess people. So please, don't act like it's only CC who uses those elements in his story, because it's simply not true. And neither is it a part if every story that he tells. To say so is a sad overstatement and does little to help your opinion in other matters. No, it's an alternate reality Slaymaster. The 616 Slaymaster is dead. And by the way, that wasn't a Claremont story. Slaymaster and tearing out Betsy's eyes was an Alan Davis story. Try again.
And there's a huge difference between Nocturne's continuity and the multiverse continuity, in the the multiverse's continuity is ENDLESS. All you have yo do is say "Hey, Roma runs that part of the multiverse, and the bugs are screwing with this part of the multiverse, and neither are aware of the other" and your not stepping on anyones toes or disrespecting anyones continuity. Just adding something new without having to worry about anything thats already there. And FREEING yourself up to tell stories that are new and COMPLETELY different than anything we've seen.

Man...I miss when Exiles was like that...where the stories took characters we knew and showed them in a way we'd never expect...and yet still focused itself on its main characters.
No there's not. If your going to whine about continuity supposedly not being respected in the one instance, you can't whine about it being respected in another. All it does is make you come off as hypocritical. And how is bringing in Roma stepping on the toes or disrespecting anyone's continuity. It's no different than establishing the crystal palace, or the bugs, or that the tallus had a shard of the M'Kraan crystal in it. It's no different. You're not freeing yourself by avoiding an entire established sector of the Marvel Multiverse. And please, from the beginning Exiles has 9 times out of 10 been new takes on established continuity and ideas.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Exiles in the beginning was "What if?" but it's evolved more to be more about these odd and diverging worlds where ANYTHING is possible. So why bog it down with stuff we've seen when ANYTHING is possible??

I don't see that this is him doing that. He's just saying that if he wanted to do a story in a dimension where everybody highly intelligent apes instead of humans, or Dinosuars or insects he could. Or if he wanbts to play with history diverging at sperate points in an alternate reality he can.

He's saying let's play this more a sci-fi what if...? Instead of just 'Oooh here's another version of a hero you already know. Isn't s/he so different. Oh. No, they're not'.

And why is Slaymaster, (THE Slaymaster, not an AU Slaymaster. But THE Slaymaster who dug out Betsy's eyes) appearing here? Why a 616 villian we've already seen? Why not someone new? Or an alternate version of someone we know?

It isn't the 616 version. The 616 version is dead.

This is this realities Slaymaster, who appears to be part of Hydra. In that dimension he still has a history with that dimension's Psylocke - only he doesn't recognise 616 Psylocke, because in that dimension she never got swapped out of her British body.

You've jumped the gun, there.

And there's a huge difference between Nocturne's continuity and the multiverse continuity, in the the multiverse's continuity is ENDLESS. All you have yo do is say "Hey, Roma runs that part of the multiverse, and the bugs are screwing with this part of the multiverse, and neither are aware of the other" and your not stepping on anyones toes or disrespecting anyones continuity.

But that's IT. You are. Roma has always been in charge of every dimension in the Marvel Multiverse. Every single one. Not just a handful. All of them. Without exception. Which has always placed eXiles as OOC, from its very inception.

As I read through I was always hoping that the 'Timebroker' would be revealed as Merlyn, and a plot of his to take control of the Multiverse from his daughter. After all he never REALLY died.

The point is by saying that Exiles is something seperate you're screwing with the very facts and fabric of the Marvel Universe. You're creating something new, but not actually explaining how it is even possible. You can't just dum 20 years of Marvel's Handbook without explaining it. This is BIG.:D

[Nachturne]

No there's not. If your going to whine about continuity supposedly not being respected in the one instance, you can't whine about it being respected in another. All it does is make you come off as hypocritical. And how is bringing in Roma stepping on the toes or disrespecting anyone's continuity. It's no different than establishing the crystal palace, or the bugs, or that the tallus had a shard of the M'Kraan crystal in it. It's no different. You're not freeing yourself by avoiding an entire established sector of the Marvel Multiverse. And please, from the beginning Exiles has 9 times out of 10 been new takes on established continuity. World Tour was the prime example of it.

Ughhh I didnt say Roma was stepping on toes. But by establishing that there is more than one "line" in the multiverse being run by more than just Roma, everyone can write anything. That's not ignoring continuity, thats adding to it. Thats the difference. Like, is it impossible to think that maybe there is more than just Roma running the multiverse?? Its big enough that we don't need to suspend our belief much to believe that maybe Roma only deals with a sector of it. A character, however, has much tighter continuity. There lies the difference.

And World Tour sucked. I refer to My Lord. His word is the true word of Exiles.

[Mr_Hellfire]

It only focuses on her, in using her as the character to introduce the Exiles to new readers. Honestly, she hasn't been the primary character in any of the 3 issues she'd appeared in. She did feature a large focus in the second one, but that was to tour the Crystal Palace, again as introduction purposes.
Which is good because I actually just picked up the second one, and having little knowledge on Exiles, I liked that while she was being introduced, everything was re-introduced. Betsy was actually the reason why I picked it up in the first place though. Points to Claremont for doing that in my opinion.

[Beast]

Which is good because I actually just picked up the second one, and having little knowledge on Exiles, I liked that while she was being introduced, everything was re-introduced. Betsy was actually the reason why I picked it up in the first place though. Points to Claremont for doing that in my opinion.
Agreed. I liked the reintroduction of the Crystal Palace for new readers. Plus the lil notes stuck to the wall all over the place was a cute touch. Like the warning sign for Morph to stay out of the Girl's Bathroom. ;) :D

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Which is good because I actually just picked up the second one, and having little knowledge on Exiles, I liked that while she was being introduced, everything was re-introduced. Betsy was actually the reason why I picked it up in the first place though. Points to Claremont for doing that in my opinion.

I totally agree. This was supposed to be a jumoing on point for new readers, and it has clearly worked as intended.

Ughhh I didnt say Roma was stepping on toes. But by establishing that there is more than one "line" in the multiverse being run by more than just Roma, everyone can write anything. That's not ignoring continuity, thats adding to it.

Nope. It's a smal X-Title flatly contradicting its big daddy the Marvel Universe. Roma, Merlyn and the Multiverse is the established brand wide concept.

By some attempt to split this off as something seperate, by using dimensions already known and accepted as part of the Marvel Multiverse, but giving no explanation of how or why it is possible you are not adding to continuity - you're just trying to pick a bit you like and pretend that nobody notices that your concept contradicts the bigger picture.

The Multiverse's governing principles had to catch up sooner or later. Looks like now they have.

Thats the difference. Like, is it impossible to think that maybe there is more than just Roma running the multiverse?? Its big enough that we don't need to suspend our belief much to believe that maybe Roma only deals with a sector of it.

Well it does go against all Brand Wide continuity to date. But maybe conceivable that some third party has broken a bit off. But if that happened Roma would still have to come back and reconnect it. So no. That doesn't work.

And really exchanging a godlike character and concepts for a bunch of bugs in a castle? How is that any better.. I mean REALLY?:D

[DDM]

And why is Slaymaster, (THE Slaymaster, not an AU Slaymaster. But THE Slaymaster who dug out Betsy's eyes) appearing here? Why a 616 villian we've already seen? Why not someone new? Or an alternate version of someone we know?

The Slaymaster of Earth 616 is dead killed by Brian when he smashed a boulder on his head, basically decapitating him into the Earth. The Exiles Slaymaster is an alternate reality Slaymaster. AS for why? Slaymaster nearly killed Betsy in Captain Britain #13 whe he gouged out her eyes; therefore, she fears him for this reason. This Slaymaster is someone new. He's not quite the same Slaymaster Betsy faced. But how is he different? That's the suspense when Betsy goes wobbly around him for this reason. The irony is this Slaymaster won't recognize Betsy because she is in an Asian form instead of her original Anglo-Saxon body.

Here's the copy of Captain Britain #13 (1985) by Alan Davis (writer) & Alan Davis (art):

http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/14671172664.13.GIF

Betsy's blindness lead her to become Mojo's slave in The New Mutants Annual #2 & even lead to Betsy's new Asian body via her bionic eyes. Therefore, another reason to fear Slaymaster.

[xmanson]

I love those panels of Creed throwing all that stuf at Slaymaster.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I love those panels of Creed throwing all that stuf at Slaymaster.

Yeah. :D

But he'll need to. You've got to imagine Slaymaster as being like the Arab version of Bulseye. He's not insane, but takes a perverse pride in killing, and any object can become a weapon for him. He studied any fighting discipline he came in contact with, to become the ultimate assasin. He will not be a pushover.

Well, unless Creed can find a suitable bolder, like Captain Britain did...:D

[ImpulseUCF]

The Shadow X-Men come from an Earth in which the Shadow King--in Xavier's body--founded & corrupted them. You may find this idea dull or boring, yet you cared enough to post your opinion here. ...yeah. My opinion that it sucked. What's your point? It sucked in New Excalibur, so I dropped it, and I don't want the sucky concept to come to Exiles, or I may have to drop that, too.
Therefore, both book intersect with certain themes. Roma & Otherworld will more than likely have big role in New Excalibur & Exiles.Lots of books have similar themes. Exiles has mutants. I don't want Wolverine to join the bloody team.

I've been wondering since day one quite how and why this team has been able to tweak so many dimensions in the Multiverse without Roma realising. She guards the WHOLE Multiverse, but doesn't notice this? HOW? WHY?There's no reason they cannot exist without contradicting each other... the multiverse is massive, and I think it's foolish to assume a single entity could be aware of all goings on within an infinite concept like the multiverse. I liked the fact that Exiles specifically didn't bog itself down with that crap. And if you say Roma is god-like and nearly omnipotent and that's how she knew, well, then that's not much better since characters with obscenely unrestricted power levels are rarely interesting because they end up being omnipotent and all-powerful plot devices. Like Roma. Who's boring. IMO. :)
The Shadow X-Men were his trophies from another dimension. They were new characters.Tired concepts that are played out. I just don't like Albion. Too Captain Britain-heavy for me.

You want Nocturne's continuity respected so badly. Yet are bemoaning the fact that established continuity about the multiverse is becoming a part of a book. There's a difference between boring, decades-old, over-powered, played out characters and continuity being forced upon a book with near limitless creative potential and contradicting characterization. By taking a different take on the multiverse that could easily and logically coexist with said boring dreck without compromising it, Exiles established itself as its own separate entity while remaining respectful of what came before. Do you see the difference? Roma is still her over-powered, boring self overseeing the multiverse, but poor Nocturne is a mere shadow of a 13-year-old daddy's girl :(.

Ha, in their second arc Exiles already went to the expected place with a Dark phoenix arc. I was kinda disappointed in that.Yeah, that was like, the 3rd issue. From a marketing and sales standpoint, the book needed a hook to ensure its continued existence and get readers on board. Exiles debuted as a "What if?" with continuity, and grew into it's own thing quickly.
The first 3 CC issues have been a blast. Very fun material, with great ction scenes, something the book never really had under Winnick, for instance, who did great charcater issues but lacked at all the rest.Did you bother reading the fight scene in the DPS arc? Legacy? The Coliseum arc? Weapon X? Anything?

Mind control is an established storyline that every writer uses. So please, don't act like it's only CC who uses those elements in his story, because it's simply not true.Nobody said he was the only one who used it. He just uses it very, very often, and it's tired, and it's expected before it happens.

[ImpulseUCF]

Nope. It's a smal X-Title flatly contradicting its big daddy the Marvel Universe. Roma, Merlyn and the Multiverse is the established brand wide concept.How is it flatly contradicting? There's no contradiction! There's no reason the Crystal Palace and Roma can't co-exist! Well, they do now. :rolleyes:

There's no reason they have to be separate or contradict each other. You're drawing conclusions that don't exist.
The Multiverse's governing principles had to catch up sooner or later. Looks like now they have.Yippee. You mean Claremont's multiverse? :rolleyes: So, it's trued up against Uncanny and Excalibur? Whoopee.

[Faded]

I have to be honest, I am not into the things Claremont wants to bring to this title. Other than 'Mystic' (which I actually do find interesting) and some swip-a-swapping between Exiles and Excal, I'm not drawn in to anything. I think at most I'll check out the mini-series crossover and make me final judgments on both titles from there. For now, mostly because of financial reasons, these two titles will be on hold.

[Frodo-X]

How is it flatly contradicting? There's no contradiction! There's no reason the Crystal Palace and Roma can't co-exist! Well, they do now. :rolleyes:

There's no reason they have to be separate or contradict each other. You're drawing conclusions that don't exist.
Yippee. You mean Claremont's multiverse? :rolleyes: So, it's trued up against Uncanny and Excalibur? Whoopee.
The eXiles operating without her knowledge doesn't make sense. It seems a bit much to think that they could go from universe to universe, constantly meddling in the timelines, without the Supreme Guardian noticing.

[Beast]

Exiles has mutants. I don't want Wolverine to join the bloody team.
Already happened. Read the All-Wolverine 2-Parter from Tony Bedard.
There's no reason they cannot exist without contradicting each other... the multiverse is massive, and I think it's foolish to assume a single entity could be aware of all goings on within an infinite concept like the multiverse. I liked the fact that Exiles specifically didn't bog itself down with that crap. And if you say Roma is god-like and nearly omnipotent and that's how she knew, well, then that's not much better since characters with obscenely unrestricted power levels are rarely interesting because they end up being omnipotent and all-powerful plot devices. Like Roma. Who's boring. IMO. :)
Well, that's too bad. Roma is the guardian of the Multiverse. Tony Bedard planned on bringing all that and the Captain Britain Corps. into his run a long time ago. He held off due to World Tour and then Claremont was going to come on so he left it up to him to deal with that stuff. How the Exiles have gone this long mucking around in Alternate Realities, especially the 616 one which has caused a lot of trouble for her and also for the Exiles is silly. So it's about time after three visits that Roma's sticking her nose into things.

[Beast]

How is it flatly contradicting? There's no contradiction! There's no reason the Crystal Palace and Roma can't co-exist! Well, they do now. :rolleyes:
Yes there is a contradiction. She's the Guardian of the Multiverse. And even if the Exiles escaped her notice until now, they've been mucking around one of the "Prime Realities" aka 616. The same one that just damaged the multiverse thanks to Scarlet Witch. So they certainly have been noticed now.
There's no reason they have to be separate or contradict each other. You're drawing conclusions that don't exist.
Yippee. You mean Claremont's multiverse? :rolleyes: So, it's trued up against Uncanny and Excalibur? Whoopee.
No, the MARVEL MULTIVERSE. You know, the one that's in canon. Established.

[tetragene]

Hmmm...It'd make sense for Nocturne to return to the Exiles, since that's where she began and she still thinks she has to carry out missions in order to save her dad. I'd just be a bit concerned about how it all will play out. Also for the sake of most Exiles readers I'd hope he wouldn't remove Blink, she was one of the primary reasons for the book's creation.

So--the teams will be meeting around fall? The bit where he said Exiles would experience team changes worries me. Psylocke in NEX...with the book becoming a Braddock fest and story-lore? Longshot & Dazzler becoming a couple...again? Sage staying with the Exiles to become the uber, supreme info-network? I'm extremely fearful of things like that coming to fruition, which in all honesty seems like it would be very likely to happen :(

And arn't you a new poster? So honestly, you don't have a lot of experience in regard to how the forums are.

lol, he posts at ComiX-Fan as well...so most of his opinion has probably been formulated from experiences with you there.

edit: What's the difference in respecting "Mutli-verse" cannon and respecting "character-specific" cannon? If some of you are so open to ignoring previous portrayls of characters in favor of "new" ones that are more interesting to you--then why not the same for the Multi-verse? And going from that--has Roma appeared very often in non-Claremont books where alternate realities/dimensions/timelines are concerned? Did she appear during AoA?

[Frodo-X]

edit: What's the difference in respecting "Mutli-verse" cannon and respecting "character-specific" cannon? If some of you are so open to ignoring previous portrayls of characters in favor of "new" ones that are more interesting to you--then why not the same for the Multi-verse? And going from that--has Roma appeared very often in non-Claremont books where alternate realities/dimensions/timelines are concerned? Did she appear during AoA?

No, she didn't, but it's a slightly different thing, I think. AoA was (eventually) a splintering timeline, so she wouldn't necessarily intervene, because the only ones doing anything were from that universe (Legion was from 616).

Whereas with the eXiles, you have people going into a universe, messing with it, and then leaving without dealing with any consequence of what they've done. So basically it's the difference between you setting your own house on fire, in which case insurance (Roma) doesn't help, or someone else coming out of nowhere, setting your house on fire, and slinking away into the shadows.

[david r]

I've read so many Claremont interviews where goes into such depth, and promises all these things---and 90% of it never happens.

Also, notice he never calls it "New" Excalibur? Always refers to his other title as "Excalibur".

[Beast]

Well, the New was only slapped on to distinguish it from Excalibur vol. 3.

[Frodo-X]

I've read so many Claremont interviews where goes into such depth, and promises all these things---and 90% of it never happens.

Also, notice he never calls it "New" Excalibur? Always refers to his other title as "Excalibur".
Well, he probably thinks the 'New' is stupid.

I don't really like calling a book 'New'. Seems really stupid once it's around for a while. Like 'New Avengers', which has been around a couple years now. It's not new anymore.

The should stick to adjectives that aren't time-based, like 'Uncanny', 'Amazing', etc.

[Beast]

Agreed. At least in the case of "New X-Men", it makes sense. They are the "New X-Men" or will be, once they graduate to the majors in a number of years. Though I still like "New Mutants" better. It doesn't make sense for Avengers or for Excalibur anymore, other than a means of distinguishing them.

[david r]

I believe the "New" came from the mind of Joe Quesada.

I'm rereading the Asgardian Wars by Claremont. Anyone who has EVER doubted his writing skills needs to pick up this tpb. It makes me realize how much we've lost.

[ImpulseUCF]

Already happened. Read the All-Wolverine 2-Parter from Tony Bedard.

Well, that's too bad. Roma is the guardian of the Multiverse. Tony Bedard planned on bringing all that and the Captain Britain Corps. into his run a long time ago. He held off due to World Tour and then Claremont was going to come on so he left it up to him to deal with that stuff. How the Exiles have gone this long mucking around in Alternate Realities, especially the 616 one which has caused a lot of trouble for her and also for the Exiles is silly. So it's about time after three visits that Roma's sticking her nose into things.So you say. Let's see if you're singing the same tune a year from now when the book is canceled due to low readership because nobody cares about the Captain Britain Corp or Roma.

Also, I think it's stupid that every little detail of every type of story to ever take place in a universe needs to be interconnected. It kind of puts a damper on creativity, don't you think? Or do you like your stupid, tired, played-out concepts recycled over and over again?

[ImpulseUCF]

Yes there is a contradiction. She's the Guardian of the Multiverse. And even if the Exiles escaped her notice until now, they've been mucking around one of the "Prime Realities" aka 616. The same one that just damaged the multiverse thanks to Scarlet Witch. So they certainly have been noticed now.Oh, so when you're trying to make a point, canon and continuity matter? Nice double standard.
No, the MARVEL MULTIVERSE. You know, the one that's in canon. Established.By Claremont? In Uncanny and Excalibur? Maybe some Davis? Right.
lol, he posts at ComiX-Fan as well...so most of his opinion has probably been formulated from experiences with you there.Nope. There were signs, but my few days here have been far more telling :).
No, she didn't, but it's a slightly different thing, I think. AoA was (eventually) a splintering timeline, so she wouldn't necessarily intervene, because the only ones doing anything were from that universe (Legion was from 616)..Hooey. 616 is the prime reality that affects the entire multiverse, which Roma is like totally BFFs with. She should have been all over that like a fat kind on a Dorito. The writers probably just had the sense not to use her because she's boring, and the story was more interesting for her absence.

Just because she has appeared in multiversal stories before does not mean she needs to be involved in all of them! Sure, she might think she sees it all, but the multiverse is infinite. Unless she is a god, it's an absurd character to begin with, and if she is omnipotent, she's an uninteresting character because she removes any dramatic tension.
I'm rereading the Asgardian Wars by Claremont. Anyone who has EVER doubted his writing skills needs to pick up this tpb. It makes me realize how much we've lost.Yeah, you're right... he used to be a lot better ;). He did!!

[Beast]

So you say. Let's see if you're singing the same tune a year from now when the book is canceled due to low readership because nobody cares about the Captain Britain Corp or Roma.

Also, I think it's stupid that every little detail of every type of story to ever take place in a universe needs to be interconnected. It kind of puts a damper on creativity, don't you think? Or do you like your stupid, tired, played-out concepts recycled over and over again?
The sales have been in the same general area for nearly 100 issues. And it's still far above the cancellation point for Marvel. Especially because Exiles gets a subscription bump outside the sales numbers via Marvel.Com. And you say that nobody cares, that's a bit of a stretch. Just because you don't care, doesn't make that true for everyone. There's a difference. It's called opinion my friend, not fact.

And why is it stupid? That's called the canon of the Marvel Universe. I suggest you grab a handbook or pull up Roma's profile on Wikipedia and read up on things. And no, it doesn't put a damper on creativity. Just because there's a canon and continuity for the universe doesn't put a damper on anything that can be done in it.

And you do realize that every story has been done before. It's the nature of fiction. Especially after decades of it. There's only a handful of different core story archtypes that can be played in various ways. It just all depends on how you play with the various characters and aspects of each story.

[Frodo-X]

And you do realize that every story has been done before. It's the nature of fiction. Especially after decades of it. There's only a handful of different core story archtypes that can be played in various ways. It just all depends on how you play with the various characters and aspects of each story.

Like the saying goes, "There are no new ideas, only new interpretations."

[Beast]

Oh, so when you're trying to make a point, canon and continuity matter? Nice double standard.
Arn't you the one who is arguing that those things shouldn't matter?
By Claremont? In Uncanny and Excalibur? Maybe some Davis? Right.
So what? It doesn't matter who established it. It's how the Marvel Universe works.
Hooey. 616 is the prime reality that affects the entire multiverse, which Roma is like totally BFFs with. She should have been all over that like a fat kind on a Dorito. The writers probably just had the sense not to use her because she's boring, and the story was more interesting for her absence.
Maybe she's boring to you. Doesn't mean she shouldn't be a part of a book that takes place in the area that she holds dominion over. After Scarlet Witch damaged the multiverse in House of M, it makes more sense than ever that she'd take notice of people mucking about with the multiverse that she oversees.
Just because she has appeared in multiversal stories before does not mean she needs to be involved in all of them! Sure, she might think she sees it all, but the multiverse is infinite. Unless she is a god, it's an absurd character to begin with, and if she is omnipotent, she's an uninteresting character because she removes any dramatic tension.
She's no more absurd than the Watcher who does similar things. Other than as was noted above, she meddles when she needs to. Here she's deciding to stick her nose in to what the Exiles are doing, cause they're messing with her playground. Like I said, read up on her. You seem to be missing something.

[Beast]

Like the saying goes, "There are no new ideas, only new interpretations."
At least someone knows the saying. You'd think comic fans were more well read.

[Omega Alpha]

Hopefully, Claremont can get Rachel Grey & Psylocke into New Excalibur to he can at last untangle Psylocke & Rachel's connection created by Jamie Braddock...

I hope not. One pet in his hands is already too much, specially considering the damage she did to Rachel Grey the last time he had her. Claremont should stay away from the X-universe for good, he clearly doesn't have anything to say about it anymore, it's long due his time to move on to do something, anything, else.


And you do realize that every story has been done before. It's the nature of fiction. Especially after decades of it. There's only a handful of different core story archtypes that can be played in various ways. It just all depends on how you play with the various characters and aspects of each story.

If he was doing original things, or wasn't telling the exact same stories he told decades ago, you wouldn't come with this answer, and would say he's bringing a fresh new approach to the X-books and is as creative as ever...

[Frodo-X]

I hope not. One pet in his hands is already too much, specially considering the damage she did to Rachel Grey the last time he had her. Claremont should stay away from the X-universe for good, he clearly doesn't have anything to say about it anymore, it's long due his time to move on to do something, anything, else.



If he was doing original things, or wasn't telling the exact same stories he told decades ago, you wouldn't come with this answer, and would say he's bringing a fresh new approach to the X-books and is as creative as ever...
I think he's bringing a fresh new approach to eXiles. :D

Having universes (univii? :p) be different for reasons other than "character goes left instead of right" is what I've been wanting in eXiles. I'm glad he's bringing it. Not to take anything away from Bedard, I thought his last few issues were great, but it looks as if the book is about to go in exactly the direction I've been waiting for, and I'm very excited about it.

[Beast]

If he was doing original things, or wasn't telling the exact same stories he told decades ago, you wouldn't come with this answer, and would say he's bringing a fresh new approach to the X-books and is as creative as ever...
You seem to miss the point here. There's nothing original in comics anymore. Or any fiction. It's all been done before. Not just by Claremont, but by every writer. Nothing is original anymore. That's the basic nature of fiction. There's only a handful of story archtypes, and the only thing new that can be added is the characters and how it's laid out. I do think he's bringing a fresh approach to Exiles and NEX and creative as ever.

[Dusty.]

I'm excited about both New Excalibur and Exiles, and I look forward to this mini series and event. I do prefer Pelletier to Clayton Henry, and I wish Marvel would back Exiles with an A List artist. I would prefer a regular artist, not short term rotating arcs stuff.

I really like Claremont's ideas, especially about having A-list arch villians.

[Novaya Havoc]

So you say. Let's see if you're singing the same tune a year from now when the book is canceled due to low readership because nobody cares about the Captain Britain Corp or Roma.


XPOTM!!!! XPOTM!!!! I'm making t-shirts!!!!

[End of Time]

By Claremont? In Uncanny and Excalibur? Maybe some Davis?

Alan Moore!

[malephoenix]

The Doom/Richards swap in the next arc...

I really wish he hadn't gone with such an over-used concept, though. If you're going to do some sort of identity swap, then might as well make it somewhat unique. Like Apocalypse and Onslaught. The whole Richards/Doom thing has been done to death. (Including, but not limited to, varitations in Earth X where Reed takes over Doom's ID, or House of M where Doom was the leader of the HoM version of the F4.* That's the only ones I can think of off the top of my head, and I'm not even an F4 reader, aside from Waid's run.) Maybe the twist at the end of this arc will be that they *didn't* switch identities after all. [cue revelation music]dun dun DUN![end music]

But I'll admit I'm biased: I'm against CC because I like good stories. Sort of a logical flow there. I respect him for what he did back in the day, but I was so sad to see him coming to Exiles. I've collected the entire series, and I dropped it after his first issue. If it turns out to be great (or even mediocre), I'll pick it up in back issues or trade form. But in the meantime, I just can't stand the thought of what he's done to TJ - who was once my favorite Exile - and I shudder to think of what the next several arcs of the series have in store.

Maybe Clayton can salvage it a little, bringing back some good feel from back when he was on it before. Now that Califiore is DC exclusive...:( :( :( :(


*Yes, I realize that those probably aren't the way this swap will be, but they were just the frist two variations of the theme that popped into my head.

[Daithi]

Man, Claremont is in with the digs isn't he? The rest of the titles don't matter because they're only focused on one timeline. The Shi'ar get a bit restless? So what. The real stuff is happening in the multiverse baby!

Dinosaurs again? What is his fascination with them? Am I glad that according to Claremont's canon, there's only one Rachel. I have been Hak'kua since before your were born mammal! Roarrrr!

I like the fact that the Slaymaster doesn't know who Psylocke is. That's neat actually.

I'm a big classic Excalibur fan so I don't mind Roma as such but it coud go either way.

[drwho]

I still hope Spiderman 2099 still sticks around because he has yet to be given a decent storyline for himself. The writers have treated him too much as a background character. Anyone know if they will actually reference this in the comic book itself, or just expect us to know who he is?

[ImpulseUCF]

Just because you don't care, doesn't make that true for everyone. There's a difference. It's called opinion my friend, not fact.If this becomes a Roma love-fest, we'll watch the sales numbers and see how many people really care.
That's called the canon of the Marvel Universe. I suggest you grab a handbook or pull up Roma's profile on Wikipedia and read up on things. :rolleyes: I know who Roma is. I know her role. I've read a lot of Marvel books. I just think she''s stupid and boring, and she is a plot device.
And you do realize that every story has been done before. I'm very much aware that there are only a handful of story archetypes, and that there is no truly "new" idea. That doesn't mean the same writer needs to use the same characters and themes in every book.
Like the saying goes, "There are no new ideas, only new interpretations."And there's nothing new about CC using Roma "I'm a Plot Device" Overseer of the Multiverse.
Arn't you the one who is arguing that those things shouldn't matter?Absolutely not. You're the one who says things change and continuity doesn't matter. I'm saying there is no reason that the Exiles original concept and Roma must be linked explicitly on pane. It's not necessary, and it ties old continuity onto Exiles like a lead weight.
She's no more absurd than the Watcher who does similar things. Yeah...but he watches. Omnipotent characters are better left to the backgrounds because omnipotent protagonists remove dramatic tension and suspense. But I suppose you know that, oh master of literary structure and archetypes.
At least someone knows the saying. You'd think comic fans were more well read.You'd think someone would find out the facts before tossing baseless assumptions around. Then again, you know what they say about assumptions...and we know you don't care about facts when they don't support your arguments. ;)

[Beast]

Well, the first page says right who he is. I'm glad they started doing that for the team members.

[Nachturne]

You seem to miss the point here. There's nothing original in comics anymore.

Uhhh.....do you read anything other than Claremont?? Cause...if you didn't then...ok I agree. But...Runaways?? Fables? Girls? American Virgin?? Y: The Last Man?? Even if some of them have basic concepts which we have seen, the approach and execution is completely original and absolutely brilliant. I think writing it all off as "there's nothing original" is not only ridiculously pessimistic but naive. We don't know whats to come, so why write it all off like that? Especially when there's amazing stuff happening elsewhere. It reminds me of that quote about closing the patent office back in the 1800's because everything that could be invented had been. :rolleyes:

And like.....did anyone like.....read Winick's Exiles?? Most of the crap Claremont is mentioning that we're all orgasming over WINICK DID. All new and completely different worlds where it was more than just "character goes left instead of right"?? Skrull world?? David Richards world?? Legacy world?? These worlds were far removed from just "character goes left". And interesting. And Winick had some incredible fight scenes!! Thunderbird taking out Galactus?! COME ON!

Guys, not to sound like a complete bitch, but I'm sure alot of people are picking up Exiles because Claremont is on it. Which...bully. Thats fab. Enjoy it, cause you're the only ones who probably will. But don't go shitting on what came before it because it's INCREDIBLE. In it's time, Exiles was the best book on the market. And now....yeah.

But I agree with Impulse. Let's watch sales. I think we'll see something similar to NEX. vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

[jarrod]

If this becomes a Roma love-fest, we'll watch the sales numbers and see how many people really care.
eXiles sales were already in the toilet, have been for basically it's entire run. There's nearly nowehere to go but up. ;)

[Beast]

Uhhh.....do you read anything other than Claremont?? Cause...if you didn't then...ok I agree. But...Runaways?? Fables? Girls? American Virgin?? Y: The Last Man?? Even if some of them have basic concepts which we have seen, the approach and execution is completely original and absolutely brilliant. I think writing it all off as "there's nothing original" is not only ridiculously pessimistic but naive.
Careful with the "Uhhh", it's against the rules to do that. And yes, I read plenty outside Claremont. It's still all been done before. Runaways, a group of kids on the run from their evil parents. That's basically a new take on fairy tales like Snow White, etc. Fables. I liked it better the last time, when it was called The 10th Kingdom. Etc. Etc. Etc. And don't blame me, Aristotle was one of the first scholers to declare that everything has basically been done before. If it was true in his age, it's true even today. Sorry.
And like.....did anyone like.....read Winick's Exiles?? Most of the crap Claremont is mentioning that we're all orgasming over WINICK DID. All new and completely different worlds where it was more than just "character goes left instead of right"?? Skrull world?? David Richards world?? Legacy world?? These worlds were far removed from just "character goes left". And interesting. And Winick had some incredible fight scenes!! Thunderbird taking out Galactus?! COME ON!
Yeah, and most of what Winick did Claremont did first. Heard of the Cross-Time Caper. Yeah, it's not exactly like Winick did something original. Just repackaged and polished that idea into a different way with different characters. Those examples you offered are pretty much the basic alterate takes on stuff we've seen before.
Guys, not to sound like a complete bitch, but I'm sure alot of people are picking up Exiles because Claremont is on it. Which...bully. Thats fab. Enjoy it, cause you're the only ones who probably will. But don't go shitting on what came before it because it's INCREDIBLE. In it's time, Exiles was the best book on the market. And now....yeah.
And? And I doubt it. I've read Exiles from the beginning, and enjoy it as much if not more now than when anyone previous was on it. And I'm not the only Exiles fan who's enjoying Claremont's run so far on the book. But why should the facts stop you from spouting off on the current tirade you're on. And watch the language, this is an all ages board. Regardless, noone is dumping on what came before. The only one dumping is you.

[Luana]

Even if some of them have basic concepts which we have seen, the approach and execution is completely original and absolutely brilliant.

I think that's what Beast meant. That the basic ideas are all used, it's how you tell those stories that matters.
If you take the example of Fables you'll see that. It's amazing, but it's building on older stories. Giving a diferent twist to fairy tales is nothing new either. Or heck, pick any Disney movie. Wether it's better than previous interpretations it's very much up to reader

As for Exiles, i'm liking it well enough. And i like "history took a difernt turn" type of stories, so i'm interested in what CC will do. And in the Exiles/NEX mini. I don't want Betsy to come back, though. I think she's good in Exiles.

And hello. I'm new here.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Given that most of today's comics read like kleenex comics, I'm happy when a writer stands to his universe and to continuity.

Thats what we have with Claremont: A writer that didn't forget the past (even when he does retcons). A writer with an universe, who writes new chapters in a giant novel, a real creator and not just someone who writes comics as if it was a few episodes in a tv show, not caring about what came before, excepted the basic concept (and even that is often ignored today).

So i'm happy that exiles is given a real place in the Marvel continuity, and isn't just a serie that could be retconned out as if never had existed, which until their contacts with 616 and Nocturne being a member of new Excalibur, would have been very easy to do when it ignored continuity.
"Exiles? What do you mean? It doesn't fit with Marvel conception of the Multiverse? Since Roma isn't aware of what they do, that means that it's just an imaginary story." Such an argument isn't possible anymore.
I see this as a good thing for exiles.
Not that i think that anybody would such a twisted mind to say something like that, and they would have to be in bad faith, but anyway now they don't have ground anymore to such an argument. ;)

[Nachturne]

Ok, I'm done arguing in here. Beast, we'll let the numbers talk, just like they have with every other Claremont book in the past few years :rolleyes:

[Beast]

I think that's what Beast meant. That the basic ideas are all used, it's how you tell those stories that matters.
If you take the example of Fables you'll see that. It's amazing, but it's building on older stories. Giving a diferent twist to fairy tales is nothing new either. Or heck, pick any Disney movie. Wether it's better than previous interpretations it's very much up to reader

As for Exiles, i'm liking it well enough. And i like "history took a difernt turn" type of stories, so i'm interested in what CC will do. And in the Exiles/NEX mini. I don't want Betsy to come back, though. I think she's good in Exiles.

And hello. I'm new here.
Welcome to the board, Luana.

Glad someone understands what I'm talking about. And yeah, Fables isn't exactly original. Taking established fairy tale characters and throwing them together in a story. That's not new. That's not to say it's not a good book, but it's not a new idea. But then as established, nothing is.

And agreed, I love the "History took a different turn" type of Alternate Universe stories. Like the Nazi Earth from the Cross-Time Cape. I'd love to see that earth pop up again, or at least a similar one. There were some great ideas there that could still be played with. Or any number of takes like that. :)

[jarrod]

Yeah, and most of what Winick did Claremont did first. Heard of the Cross-Time Caper.
Heh, it's funny because it's true. The eXiles core concept is basically the premise of an Excalibur story done around 15 years back... some details or circumstances may differ, but the results and effect were largely identical. It's also likely the reason that eXiles for the most part's been ciritically panned over the course of it's run.... it's a tough foundation to make something unrepetitive out of.

If we really wanted to get into the origins of these concepts though, we'd have to stretch back to the Thorpe/Moore/Delano/Davis CB storeis though, right? Were there any real references to the mutiverse before that (maybe in FF or something?)?

[Beast]

Heh, it's funny because it's true. The eXiles core concept is basically the premise of an Excalibur story done around 15 years back... some details or circumstances may differ, but the results and effect were largely identical. It's also likely the reason that eXiles for the most part's been ciritically panned over the course of it's run.

If we really wanted to get into the origins of these concepts though, we'd have to stretch back to the Thorpe/Moore/Delano/Davis CB storeis though, right? Were there any real references to the mutiverse before that (maybe in FF or something?)?
I believe so. Given that Marvel is annoying about releasing that stuff here in the states, it's difficult to get ahold of. But yeah, I believe the ground work would definatly be in their hands. And then expanded and built on by Claremont as well as Davis. I was just referring to the aspect of a team hopping from reality to reality. Plus we have Sliders and Quantum Leap to thank for some of the additional elements that were mined.

[Luana]

Welcome to the board, Luana.

Thanks.

And agreed, I love the "History took a different turn" type of Alternate Universe stories. Like the Nazi Earth from the Cross-Time Cape. I'd love to see that earth pop up again, or at least a similar one. There were some great ideas there that could still be played with. Or any number of takes like that. :)

Absolutely. I'd say it's something i'd rather see in New Excalibur, because it was originaly an Excal story, but then there would be far too much reality hoping going around.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

TJ back as an Exile?! Was he joking? I couldnt tell.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

How is it flatly contradicting? There's no contradiction! There's no reason the Crystal Palace and Roma can't co-exist! Well, they do now. :rolleyes:

It is flatly contradicting because it's MARVEL's Multiverse. That's the whiole brand. It's the framework within which every book operates. An infinite number of universes each of which has their own number. The universe we usually see in Marvel comics is numbered #616 in the Multiverse. All the dimesions seen in Exiles also run by this rule. To say they're something totally different, and seperate in this one title as opposed to everytrhing else Marvel has ever written is nothing short of ridiculous.

Yippee. You mean Claremont's multiverse? :rolleyes: So, it's trued up against Uncanny and Excalibur? Whoopee.

No. The MARVEL Multiverse. The Multiverse in which every book Marvel have put out has to adhere to. Claremont didn't even do the majority of the ground work for that. That was Alan Moore, long before Claremont started writing stories within the same context. Moore actually coined the use of Marvel's Earth being #616.

Them's the rules. Claremont wrote stories within the. Winnick never seemed to want to acknowledge them. But in the end it really makes no difference. They're going to fit in now. And about time, too.

The eXiles operating without her knowledge doesn't make sense. It seems a bit much to think that they could go from universe to universe, constantly meddling in the timelines, without the Supreme Guardian noticing.

Exactly. You can't change universe upon universe without her eventually noticing. It defies logic. We also don't know for sure that it sn't the bugs trying to play god which isn't breaking all these universes in the first place.

Yes there is a contradiction. She's the Guardian of the Multiverse. And even if the Exiles escaped her notice until now, they've been mucking around one of the "Prime Realities" aka 616. The same one that just damaged the multiverse thanks to Scarlet Witch. So they certainly have been noticed now.

No, the MARVEL MULTIVERSE. You know, the one that's in canon. Established.

I really can't see how anyboy doesn't get that. Thanks, Beast.

Also, notice he never calls it "New" Excalibur? Always refers to his other title as "Excalibur".

No. He never has. It's always 'Excalibur' in the book itself, because that's the name of the team. They never call the 'New Avengers' by that tag either. They're just 'Avengers'.

The 'new' tag was only put in place to differentiate from the Genoshan series which held the name under copyright, anyway.

[Beast]

No. The MARVEL Multiverse. The Multiverse in which every book Marvel have put out has to adhere to. Claremont didn't even do the majority of the ground work for that. That was Alan Moore, long before Claremont started writing stories within the same context. Moore actually coined the use of Marvel's Earth being #616.

Them's the rules. Claremont wrote stories within the. Winnick never seemed to want to acknowledge them. But in the end it really makes no difference. They're going to fit in now. And about time, too.
Exactly. Thank you. Even Moore was building on something, as alternate realities showed up as far back as the golden age and in early Fantastic Four. Moore just tried to bring everything together and establish the numbering system and all that. Then Claremont and Davis picked up the ball and ran with it as well. Where as Winick, even though he was playing in the multiverse and used stuff like the Age of Apocalypse, never acknowledged the established Marvel Multiverse as a whole. Even though he acknowledged the Cross-Time Caper in interviews.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I think that's what Beast meant. That the basic ideas are all used, it's how you tell those stories that matters.
If you take the example of Fables you'll see that. It's amazing, but it's building on older stories. Giving a diferent twist to fairy tales is nothing new either. Or heck, pick any Disney movie. Wether it's better than previous interpretations it's very much up to reader

Exactly. The chances are if you think something is truly original it's probably just that you haven't read anything that might have inspired it yet...:rolleyes: :D

As for Exiles, i'm liking it well enough. And i like "history took a difernt turn" type of stories, so i'm interested in what CC will do. And in the Exiles/NEX mini. I don't want Betsy to come back, though. I think she's good in Exiles.

I agree with you there. Psylocke's a good choice in my opinion. Much as though I've been clamouring to get her on an Excalibur title for years I want to see more of her on eXiles first.

And the history turning point really fascinates me, too. The Crusader X dimension where the British Empire still ruled everything bar China and Europe, or Hauptman Englande's dimension where Germany won WW2 and Excalibur were all German were two of my favourite moments of the original Excalibur. Proper Sci-fi What If...? That kind of logic is what makes Claremont perfect to write eXiles.

And hello. I'm new here.

Hello. Welcome aboard.

TJ back as an Exile?! Was he joking? I couldnt tell.

I'm pretty sure Claremont means it, yes. So we'll have to see who replaces her. I could actually see Betsy sticking around on Exiles. I wonder if Rachel might return to Excalibur, instead?:confused:

[Beast]

Yeah, who to replace Nocturne with. I say bring in Lila Cheney. :D

She's English. Though her powers really don't suit her for a team member.

Maybe one of the un-used New Mutants. Magma, or something.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yeah, who to replace Nocturne with. I say bring in Lila Cheney. :D

She's English. Though her powers really don't suit her for a team member.

Maybe one of the un-used New Mutants. Magma, or something.

Lila is an option. I'd still like to see Chamber, too. But I doubt THAT will happen. And Dane would be too similar to Lionheart - who will inevitably BE on the team after the next arc is done.

I'd like to see Rachel back - heck I'd like to see ANY of the original Excalibur back. Cerise, Micromax and Kylun are all still available, too.

Magma technically has the Nova Roma, semi European, roots there to bring her on board. It's plausible.

Hmmmm.

You know it's going to be Longshot after all this. After all he was on Claremont's early draft roster for the original Excalibur book. As was Colossus. But that would have been a very different team.

[Stephane Garrelie]

by the way i'm happy to have the concept of male Mystic developped. Frankly excepted with page from X-Men: True Friends #3 from 1999 starring Mr Raven, Iren Adler and Logan in the 30s we didn't got much.
Add to that the fact that the Exiles Mystic will be a character who did live the most part of his/her life in the body of a man, i can see lot of interesting possibilities for this character.
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j252/StephaneGarrelie/RAVEN.jpg

[The Sword Is Drawn]

by the way i'm happy to have the concept of male Mystic developped. Frankly excepted with page from X-Men: True Friends #3 from 1999 starring Mr Raven, Iren Adler and Logan in the 30s we didn't got much.
Add to that the fact that the Exiles Mystic will be a character who did leave the most part of his/her life in the body of a man, i can see lot of interesting possibilities for this character.

I'd agree Stephane. This is proper What If...? playing fast and loose with larger concepts than eXiles has been for a good long while.

No more What if <insert character here> was a herald of Galactus type stories. They're unimaginative.

[Beast]

Plus we know that Raven and Irene met and fell in love around the turn of the century in 616 canon. Their relationship at that period of time would have definatly been frowned upon. It probably would have gotten them killed. Hell, women in general were treated as lesser beings than men. So Mystqiue being a shapeshifter, it makes all kinds of sense that she might choose to live in a male form for both reasons. Among others.

[DDM]

There's no reason they cannot exist without contradicting each other... the multiverse is massive, and I think it's foolish to assume a single entity could be aware of all goings on within an infinite concept like the multiverse. I liked the fact that Exiles specifically didn't bog itself down with that crap. And if you say Roma is god-like and nearly omnipotent and that's how she knew, well, then that's not much better since characters with obscenely unrestricted power levels are rarely interesting because they end up being omnipotent and all-powerful plot devices. Like Roma. Who's boring. IMO. :)
Tired concepts that are played out. I just don't like Albion. Too Captain Britain-heavy for me.

Roma has been part of the multiverse since her creation in Captain Britain #1 (1976) created by Chris Claremont & Herb Trimpe; however, she was further developed by Alan Moore & Alan Davis in 1983's The Mighty World of Marvel & various other UK magazines carrying Captain Britain. Alan Moore fleshed out the multiverse concept as it is ruled from Otherworld by powerful beings--almost gods by out concepts--who keep the multiverse functioning. Majestrix Opal Luna Saturnyne specific role is keep the Earth 616 sector functioning properly; it's why she hired the bounty hunter, the Technet to hunt Rachel Summers, Phoenix, in Excalibur Special Edition #1 since Phoenix is supposedly a "threat to reality." Jamie Delano expands this idea by including other versions of Saturyne such as Mastrex Opal Lun Sat-Yr-9, the Fascist dictator from an alternate Earth obsessed with her Kaptain Briton. Chris Claremont took this another step further when Sat-Yr-9 murders Courtney Ross--her other-dimensional counterpart--then takes her place.


From Otherworld came the Captain Britain Corps, Captain Britains from all the alternate dimensions. This is where the concept of Albion of Lionheart comes from. Apparently, the Lionhearts are alternate or even evil Captain Britains who take up the sword instead of the amulet. They may even have their own dimensions similar to Otherworld with Roma's own counterpart.

You just need to inform yourself of how the multiverse works. Roma is not a plot device. She is a character with wide range of powers & responsibilities.

[Novaya Havoc]

Yeah, who to replace Nocturne with. I say bring in Lila Cheney. :D


I would quite possibly jab out my eye if that happened.


No more What if <insert character here> was a herald of Galactus type stories. They're unimaginative.

Don't go there. That was a good issue! And What If? is a whole different ballpark from Exiles. It's like comparing X-Men Unlimited to X-Factor.

[Arilou]

There's no reason they cannot exist without contradicting each other... the multiverse is massive, and I think it's foolish to assume a single entity could be aware of all goings on within an infinite concept like the multiverse

Oh, there is such a being: The Living Tribunal.

He doesen't (and that is a very good thing IMHO) interfere very much though.

I'm going to have to say I preferred the Exiles having only a vague idea of what they where doing and why. Bringing sentient entities into the mix takes away some of the charm IMHO.

Otherwise his ideas seem good: What-Ifs, not just from the MU, getting some more character-development done (something Winick did very well but has been lacking since) If Claremont can pull it off then good.

I'm not as comfortable with more over-arching villains though. That's not a good idea for Exiles I think.

[Beast]

Don't go there. That was a good issue! And What If? is a whole different ballpark from Exiles. It's like comparing X-Men Unlimited to X-Factor.
Given that Exiles is basically a new What If? series simply with a recurring cast, I don't see your point.

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm not as comfortable with more over-arching villains though. That's not a good idea for Exiles I think.

Hate to provide a nerd reference, but it did something for Star Trek: Voyager when they finally added the Borg as a common motif throughout, rather than episode-by-epsiode villains.
It's difficult to keep peoples' interest when you have different antogonists that can never grow and keep pace with our protagonists.

Just my opinion with slight context. I really don't know how I feel about it in Exiles, either.

[blinkinrogue]

i blame the close-to-mediocre sales of exiles to Marvel's marketing strats.... I mean we hardly hear news about Exiles (not including the last by CC), we hardly see any effort to push the title to the public's attention, you hardly get to see solid, beautiful art (ive read exiles for a while, i thought most of the art were bleh, couldnt it help them if they hired a really good artist??), and if it werent for blink, i wouldnt ever pick it up (although i really liked those issues when evil hyperion was introduced). One artist I'd like to see draw blink again is joe Madz..... he drew a really cute blink... :)

[Novaya Havoc]

Given that Exiles is basically a new What If? series simply with a recurring cast, I don't see your point.

I disagree with you. What If? took 616 stories and usually just spun them with different endings, in short vignettes, with -- as you said -- no recurring character throughout.

Exiles actually brings in new worlds, concepts, and designs. It's just a different application of existing characters. The stories have overall cohesion and establish its own continuity. So, that'd be like calling Ultimate a big, giant What If?

I'd call "Marvel Zombies" a big What If? -- but not Ultimate or Exiles.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Don't go there. That was a good issue! And What If? is a whole different ballpark from Exiles. It's like comparing X-Men Unlimited to X-Factor.

I wasn't referencing a specific story there, Novaya. I'm just saying that those kind of concepts are a bit tired now. They've been done a hundred times before eXiles even began. It's far better to play with bigger conbcepts. Universes where no just a handfuil of characters was effected, but every living being has to live differently.

We haven't see enough of those in the last year or so of eXiles.

[Daithi]

Hate to provide a nerd reference, but it did something for Star Trek: Voyager when they finally added the Borg as a common motif throughout, rather than episode-by-epsiode villains.

I would have gone with DS9 and the Dominion which did a far better job than the Borg on Voyager.

[Beast]

Unfortunatly Marvel doesn't market a lot of it's 2nd tier titles. Even though it would make more sense to market the books that arn't selling in the Top 20. It should be noted though that Exiles maintains a strong subscription via Marvel.Com, which isn't counted in the sales numbers. Not to mention trades.

[Novaya Havoc]

I would have gone with DS9 and the Dominion which did a far better job than the Borg on Voyager.

I used Voyager because in that show they were constantly "on the move," and because of it, never had a stationary place to create recurring villains. When Voyager moves out of so-and-so's space, they lose that villain forever. Exiles is kinda like that, because they world-hop.

I agree on Dominion and DS9. But DS9 was a stationary place, like, er, the Avengers Mansion.

See, my knowledge of Star Trek all ties back to Marvel. Now let us never speak of it again. It clashes with my cultivated FABULOUSDAZZLER image.

[Beast]

I would have gone with DS9 and the Dominion which did a far better job than the Borg on Voyager.
Good point. The Dominion did a lot to help DS9. It was a good series, but the threat of the Dominion really did a good job of giving the series a direction. As did the addition of the ship.

[Daithi]

I agree on Dominion and DS9. But DS9 was a stationary place, like, er, the Avengers Mansion.

Or the eXiles Crystal Palace! I think a recurring villian could help in this respect and give the title some focus other than the different What..if? planet each month.

[Beast]

Or the eXiles Crystal Palace! I think a recurring villian could help in this respect and give the title some focus other than the different What..if? planet each month.
That's really bogged the book down also. I like that CC is going to give the group a place where the Exiles can actually socialize and interact with other characters outside of that damn palace.

[Arilou]

Hate to provide a nerd reference, but it did something for Star Trek: Voyager when they finally added the Borg as a common motif throughout, rather than episode-by-epsiode villains.
It's difficult to keep peoples' interest when you have different antogonists that can never grow and keep pace with our protagonists.

Just my opinion with slight context. I really don't know how I feel about it in Exiles, either.

It all depends on how it is done of course. I'm just afraid that a multiversal villain will become such a ludicrous scale that it gets boring veyr quickly.

Some other team of dimension.-hoppers (like Weapon X in Winick's run) would be nice though.

[Nachturne]

That's really bogged the book down also. I like that CC is going to give the group a place where the Exiles can actually socialize and interact with other characters outside of that damn palace.

Personally, I way preferred when they had no home to speak of at all, and were completely at the whim of the "Timebroker". All they had were each other, and they had to deal with that whether they got along or not (Ilyanna). It made for a very interesting team dynamic because their only constant was each other. I think Exiles loses (lost) something big when thats taken away.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Personally, I way preferred when they had no home to speak of at all, and were completely at the whim of the "Timebroker". All they had were each other, and they had to deal with that whether they got along or not (Ilyanna). It made for a very interesting team dynamic because their only constant was each other. I think Exiles loses (lost) something big when thats taken away.

Me too. I thought the 'bugs' were a really terrible reveal.

[Novaya Havoc]

Some other team of dimension.-hoppers (like Weapon X in Winick's run) would be nice though.

Perhaps the Arilou? ;)

[Arilou]

Perhaps the Arilou? ;)

That would rock, wouldn't it?

And they could fight the Orz....

Naw, that would be too awesome for words :p

That said, regarding the "Home Base" if they now have a home, they aren't really "Exiles" anymore, are they?

[Beast]

Personally, I way preferred when they had no home to speak of at all, and were completely at the whim of the "Timebroker". All they had were each other, and they had to deal with that whether they got along or not (Ilyanna). It made for a very interesting team dynamic because their only constant was each other. I think Exiles loses (lost) something big when thats taken away.
Oh, I totally agree. But short of destroying the palace, or having the bugs screw them over, or Roma taking away their free will/choice in what realities they visit, it's gonna be difficult to do once you've already established the Palace, the Bugs, and had the Exiles turn it into their base.

[Nachturne]

Oh, I totally agree. But short of destroying the palace, or having the bugs screw them over, or Roma taking away their free will/choice in what realities they visit, it's gonna be difficult to do once you've already established the Palace, the Bugs, and had the Exiles turn it into their base.

It was coma-Tbirds DREAM!!!!

[ImpulseUCF]

Yawn. I'm very tired of arguing about this, so I'd like say a few final words and move on.

I still don't see how the Exiles existence needs to disrupt the multiverse, Roma, Otherworld, or anything. Just because Winnick didn't talk about it did not mean he was destroying or erasing or damaging it at all. He just left it out and told his own, more personal stories that did not conflict with what had come before and allowed for a different and much more interesting take. Why must everyone talk about and acknowedlege obscure, decades-old UK Marvel titles and force it upon every single story ever?

Did Winnick talk about it? No, and probably with good reason. He didn't step on it, either, and that's what you fail to comprehend. Now we get to hear about it whether we want to or not. I'd much prefer that stay on Excalibur's side of things, because I frankly don't care about Excalibur at all.

Roma is an extremely powerful character who can make sweeping changes without any real challenge or difficulty, also making her a deus ex machina, or plot device. Example: she brought back all of the X-Men during the Fall of the Mutants and made them all invisible to electronics. Plot device. Super-powerful. No risk or dramatic tension. Yawn.

Lila Cheny? Really? So much for unlimited creative potential. Yawn.

The characters were always able to interact under Winnick's pen...

Contextual continuity within the frame work Exiles established for Exiles = yay!
Finding a way to suck the Exiles mythos into the Roma "I'm a Plot Device" Otherworld/excalibur scene is needless, boring, old, old OLD, OLD, tired and boring.

For those who say there are no more original ideas anway so it's all the same... Cop-out. How convenient. There are several structures, themes, plot outlines, archetypes, sure, but execution, style and delivery can be fresh, new and innovating. Roma, Otherworld, Captain Britain Corp, Lila Cheney etc are NOT.

It's all about style and flair in the execution. Presentation is key. Carey's X-Men is fresh. Y: The Last Man is fresh, fun and exciting. Preacher? Even Ennis' Punisher is a new take on the character!

I bet Roma's about as interesting today as she's ever been.

[mikeyb]

"Why does everybody have to be human? Why does everybody have to be mammalian even? We can have other versions and incarnations of the Marvel characters," Claremont stated. "Like a race of people descended from dinosaurs or insects."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Oh man, kiss this title goodbye! Should be bout as good as the Uncanny issues when Racheal turns into a dino. Man he just doesn't even try anymore, does he?

[Pach!]

I think that arc is why I don't like Claremont's writing. I got into comics right at the beginning of thatarc..and wow....itjsut tainted Claremont'swork from there on.

[Beast]

Yawn. I'm very tired of arguing about this, so I'd like say a few final words and move on.

I still don't see how the Exiles existence needs to disrupt the multiverse, Roma, Otherworld, or anything. Just because Winnick didn't talk about it did not mean he was destroying or erasing or damaging it at all. He just left it out and told his own, more personal stories that did not conflict with what had come before and allowed for a different and much more interesting take. Why must everyone talk about and acknowedlege obscure, decades-old UK Marvel titles and force it upon every single story ever?
Because it does. They are dealing with damaged or causing damage to various realities with their interference. That disrupts the multiverse and draws the attention of Roma who's very mission statement is to oversee the entire multiverse from Otherworld. And the likewise is true, just because Winick didn't talk about it, doesn't mean it can't come into play at a later date. Which it is. Just like the Crystal palace, bugs, Timebroker origins, and the permanent base of operations was brought into things at a later date.
Did Winnick talk about it? No, and probably with good reason. He didn't step on it, either, and that's what you fail to comprehend. Now we get to hear about it whether we want to or not. I'd much prefer that stay on Excalibur's side of things, because I frankly don't care about Excalibur at all.
I'm not failing to comprehend anything here. And yes, he did step on it. If there's an established way that the Multiverse works... then you deal with and address it. Because if you don't, eventually someone will. It would have been Tony Bedard, had the World Tour not happened. Now Claremont is taking it in that direction. And it doesn't matter if you don't care about Excalibur, we're talking about Exiles here. You know, the book dealing with the established Marvel Multiverse. Ya know, the one that's been around for decades now.
Roma is an extremely powerful character who can make sweeping changes without any real challenge or difficulty, also making her a deus ex machina, or plot device. Example: she brought back all of the X-Men during the Fall of the Mutants and made them all invisible to electronics. Plot device. Super-powerful. No risk or dramatic tension. Yawn.
Yet she doesn't. Because she makes others do that stuff for her. Hence the Captain Britain Corps. You know, just like how the Timebroker, or later the Bugs via the Timebroker, had others doing their work for them. She's a fully realized and fleshed out character. Not a Deus Ex Machina, which is an overused and idiotic term, or a plot device. Other than the fact that every character is a plot device. They're characters in a plot in a story.
Lila Cheny? Really? So much for unlimited creative potential. Yawn.
Mike Carey's using her. I was just making a joke about replacing Talia with her. :p
The characters were always able to interact under Winnick's pen...
Who said they didn't. We're talking about the fact that the Crystal Palace has taken away that element. The characters don't spend time just hanging out anywhere anymore. It's mission and then immediatly back to the palace. Which is what Claremont wants to get away from, by giving the group someplace they can go where they interact with other people. You know, supporting characters.
Contextual continuity within the frame work Exiles established for Exiles = yay!
Finding a way to suck the Exiles mythos into the Roma "I'm a Plot Device" Otherworld/excalibur scene is needless, boring, old, old OLD, OLD, tired and boring.
It's Marvel's continuity. The Exiles are just functioning in it. Not to mention the book was based on continuity outside of it's self. Hello, Age of Apocalypse. Not to mention the Cross-Time Caper and What If?. Add in some Sliders and Quantum Leap and mix well. And Roma is not a plot device, she's a character.
For those who say there are no more original ideas anway so it's all the same... Cop-out. How convenient. There are several structures, themes, plot outlines, archetypes, sure, but execution, style and delivery can be fresh, new and innovating. Roma, Otherworld, Captain Britain Corp, Lila Cheney etc are NOT.
Not a cop-out. Absolute fact. Talk to Aristotle, even he knew that it was true. And there's nothing wrong with using any of those established Marvel concepts in new ways. Everyone else does, so why shouldn't Claremont play with them also. He's hardly the only one to use Roma or Otherworld. And definatly not the only one to use the Captain Britain Corps or Lila Cheney. Check your facts there.
It's all about style and flair in the execution. Presentation is key. Carey's X-Men is fresh. Y: The Last Man is fresh, fun and exciting. Preacher? Even Ennis' Punisher is a new take on the character!
Mike Carey's X-Men is fresh, but it's hardly original. And it's also using tons of established continuity and canon in addition to new takes on old stuff. Y: The Last Man isn't a new concept or idea either. See, you keep falling back on stuff that hurts your core argument. It's easy to do, given the nature of fiction.
I bet Roma's about as interesting today as she's ever been.
Given you don't seem to know anything about her, you wouldn't really know.

[Arilou]

Because it does. They are dealing with damaged or causing damage to various realities with their interference. That disrupts the multiverse and draws the attention of Roma who's very mission statement is to oversee the entire multiverse from Otherworld. And the likewise is true, just because Winick didn't talk about it, doesn't mean it can't come into play at a later date. Which it is. Just like the Crystal palace, bugs, Timebroker origins, and the permanent base of operations was brought into things at a later date.

Actually, that's the Tribunal's job. Although i suppose they might be sharing. (LT taking care of the big cosmic imbalances and Roma patching up all those little cracks before they become big problems)

Personally I've always much preferred the Starlin/Kirby version of the great cosmos. Roma always struck me as out-of-place. (Maybe becuase she so very seldom appears outside X-men?)

[mikeyb]

I'm sure Winnick created this series and never once thought of Roma and probably didn't even know who she is. Isn't Roma just another version of the Watcher? No one uses Roma except Claremont. So in Claremont's Marvel universe, she watches over it, but in everyone else's its the Watcher. Why didn't we ever see Roma in What if?

[drwho]

Isn't new excalibur selling worse than exiles these days? So you cant necessarily say this change in writers is a step up. My one complaint over reading the interview is it looks like Claremont is playing too safe with story ideas. Why do we need a story what if reed was doom when we could have a story what if anyone on the marvel universe was doom? I kind of feel like he plans on being too safe and bringing typical stories to exiles. I do think it would be neat if the German dimension Excalibur made an appearance.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Yawn. I'm very tired of arguing about this, so I'd like say a few final words and move on.

I suspect you may be tired of arguing now because you've stumbled into a whole area of the structure of Marvel comics which you did not realise existed before. You can argue all day, but you can't actually beat part of the framework of the Comics Brand itself.

I still don't see how the Exiles existence needs to disrupt the multiverse, Roma, Otherworld, or anything.

It doesn't have to, no. But when you go on for around 100 issues NOT acknowledging it, it makes perfect semse for the powes that be finally noticing that something has been going on for that long - and deciding to intervene. Claremont seems to want to tell more Marvel Universe stories here, as Bedard did as well. If you go for a more MU approach sooner or later you have to accept the pre-existing structure and rules of the MU.

Roma is part of this. She resides in a subdimension outside of the rest of the Multiverse, but which borders with each and every dimension with in it. It's her job to make sure nobody messes with it.

The Exiles have been messing with it for 90+ issues. Now she's noticed that this is the case, and is getting involved. A very logical next step for Exiles as a series.

Just because Winnick didn't talk about it did not mean he was destroying or erasing or damaging it at all. He just left it out and told his own, more personal stories that did not conflict with what had come before and allowed for a different and much more interesting take.

Be that as it may it was still a story set wuthin the boundaries of Marvel's Multiverse, and therefore has to eventually be governed by the rules and structure of it. You CANNOT avoid that in the end.

Why must everyone talk about and acknowedlege obscure, decades-old UK Marvel titles and force it upon every single story ever?

Well, when the rest of the Marvel Universe has accepted abd embraced it with every alternate universe story over the past 25 years why should Exiles be a 'Special' case? That would be out OOC. It wouldn't make sense.

It's not just a few obscure UK titles. It's all part of the same universe fleshed out by Alan Moore and embraced by countless wrires ever since. This is the status quo of Marvel's Multiverse. Anytime you go off that track you are writing OOC.

Did Winnick talk about it? No, and probably with good reason. He didn't step on it, either, and that's what you fail to comprehend. Now we get to hear about it whether we want to or not. I'd much prefer that stay on Excalibur's side of things, because I frankly don't care about Excalibur at all.

Again, your missing the point here. This isn't JUST Excalibur. It never has been. It is every. book. in. Marvel's. canon.

Can I spell it out to you any clearer?:D

Roma is an extremely powerful character who can make sweeping changes without any real challenge or difficulty, also making her a deus ex machina, or plot device.

She could, yes. But very rarely does. Only when it is felt that it will benefit the stability of a given dimension. Therest of the time she is much more like The Watcher for the Marvel Multiverse.

Example: she brought back all of the X-Men during the Fall of the Mutants and made them all invisible to electronics. Plot device. Super-powerful. No risk or dramatic tension. Yawn.

Apart from the fact that in doing so it led to a lot of the X-Men eventually being displaced, forgetting who they were, taking on whole new lives in other countries. There was always a random factor to her actions.

Contextual continuity within the frame work Exiles established for Exiles = yay!
Finding a way to suck the Exiles mythos into the Roma "I'm a Plot Device" Otherworld/excalibur scene is needless, boring, old, old OLD, OLD, tired and boring.

There's a big difference between a plot device and a deity. Would you call The Watcher a plot device?

[Beast]

I'm sure Winnick created this series and never once thought of Roma and probably didn't even know who she is. Isn't Roma just another version of the Watcher? No one uses Roma except Claremont. So in Claremont's Marvel universe, she watches over it, but in everyone else's its the Watcher. Why didn't we ever see Roma in What if?
No, Roma has nothing to do with the Watcher. The Watcher simply watches. They each serve completely different functions. I'd suggest grabbing a Handbook and reading up on her.

[mikeyb]

I ask again. Why hasn't she appeared in What if? And why doesn't she appear outside a Claremont story? If shes that important, wouldn't more people mention her?

[Pach!]

I ask again. Why hasn't she appeared in What if? And why doesn't she appear outside a Claremont story? If shes that important, wouldn't more people mention her?

Because she's not that important to people besides Claremont.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

No, Roma has nothing to do with the Watcher. The Watcher simply watches. They each serve completely different functions. I'd suggest grabbing a Handbook and reading up on her.

Yes. I really wish more people would. I think part of the problem here is thast a lot of the posters on this board are primarily X-Men fans who rarely stray outside and into the MU as a whole. They therefore have not encountered a lot of the Brand Wide characters, structures and concepts which govern Marvel. If they had they'd realise that the things Claremont is suggesting actually make the most logical sense.

And a fair few are just going to write it off because it's Claremont, as well, sadly...:(

[Arilou]

Isn't new excalibur selling worse than exiles these days? So you cant necessarily say this change in writers is a step up. My one complaint over reading the interview is it looks like Claremont is playing too safe with story ideas. Why do we need a story what if reed was doom when we could have a story what if anyone on the marvel universe was doom? I kind of feel like he plans on being too safe and bringing typical stories to exiles. I do think it would be neat if the German dimension Excalibur made an appearance.

Holy Crap. "What if Everyone in the World was Doom:"

That would be an awesome story :p

The Exiles have been messing with it for 90+ issues. Now she's noticed that this is the case, and is getting involved. A very logical next step for Exiles as a series.

Heck, for all we know she could have been the one leading the Timebreakers to the Crystal Palace in the first place.

I'd much prefer that to any overt involvement.... Would be a bit more.... Subtle.

This isn't JUST Excalibur.

Actually it pretty much IS confined to X-men, Excalibur, and a few related titles (when written by Claremont usually...) Most What-If stories has NOT included Roma at all (and most puts the Living Tribunal as the safekeeper of the multiverse, not Merlin's bint.)

[blinkinrogue]

Isn't new excalibur selling worse than exiles these days? So you cant necessarily say this change in writers is a step up. My one complaint over reading the interview is it looks like Claremont is playing too safe with story ideas. Why do we need a story what if reed was doom when we could have a story what if anyone on the marvel universe was doom? I kind of feel like he plans on being too safe and bringing typical stories to exiles. I do think it would be neat if the German dimension Excalibur made an appearance.

yep that seems to be the case.....


63
38.13
EXILES #91
$2.99
MAR
31,712

64
37.84
GREEN ARROW #71
$2.99
DC
31,470

65
37.74
SUPERGIRL & LEGION O/SUPER HEROES #27
$2.99
DC
31,387

66
36.99
MS MARVEL #12
$2.99
MAR
30,763

67
36.5
NEW EXCALIBUR #16
$2.99
MAR
30,356

68
36.16
NEW EXCALIBUR #17
$2.99
MAR
30,073

[mikeyb]

Because she's not that important to people besides Claremont.

Thank you! This just really sucks because Exiles started out so good under Winick and some of the Bedard issues I enjoyed but this is just horrible. Hes gonna get one of my favorite series cancelled.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

(and most puts the Living Tribunal as the safekeeper of the multiverse, not Merlin's bint.)

You know that 'Bint' usually refers to casual girlfriend in the UK? Dude! She's his DAUGHTER!:eek: :D

[Nachturne]

Because she's not that important to people besides Claremont.

DING DING DING! Do we have a prize for this man?

[Daithi]

Yes. I really wish more people would. I think part of the problem here is thast a lot of the posters on this board are primarily X-Men fans who rarely stray outside and into the MU as a whole. They therefore have not encountered a lot of the Brand Wide characters, structures and concepts which govern Marvel. If they had they'd realise that the things Claremont is suggesting actually make the most logical sense.


No i don't follow that. Roma primarily exists in the X-Verse and more importantly in the Claremont-verse. She is rarely written by anyone else outside of this.

It's the people who have read more Marvel wide titles that would have a problem with her inclusion, rather than X-Fans who know her from Uncanny and Excalibur.

[Arilou]

Yes. I really wish more people would. I think part of the problem here is thast a lot of the posters on this board are primarily X-Men fans who rarely stray outside and into the MU as a whole. They therefore have not encountered a lot of the Brand Wide characters, structures and concepts which govern Marvel. If they had they'd realise that the things Claremont is suggesting actually make the most logical sense.

And a fair few are just going to write it off because it's Claremont, as well, sadly...:(

If anything it is the reverse: At least for me.. I'm a general MU fan way before an X-men fan. Especially the Cosmic stuff: Dr. Strange, Quasar, Silver Surfer, Infinity Watch.... And of course loads of What-ifs. These dealt with the multiverse now and then, but seldom, if ever, with Roma.

[Beast]

I ask again. Why hasn't she appeared in What if? And why doesn't she appear outside a Claremont story? If shes that important, wouldn't more people mention her?
Because What If? wasn't tales about protecting the Multiverse. There's a difference.

Watcher = Watches. Roma = Protects. See, there's a pretty major difference there.

[mikeyb]

Yes. I really wish more people would. I think part of the problem here is thast a lot of the posters on this board are primarily X-Men fans who rarely stray outside and into the MU as a whole. They therefore have not encountered a lot of the Brand Wide characters, structures and concepts which govern Marvel. If they had they'd realise that the things Claremont is suggesting actually make the most logical sense.

And a fair few are just going to write it off because it's Claremont, as well, sadly...:(
Bull. I read much more outside of X-Men than anything. And what title is she in other than an X-title? Has she been in Avengers? Fantastic Four? It makes logical sense to Claremont and his fans and no one else.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

No i don't follow that. Roma primarily exists in the X-Verse and more importantly in the Claremont-verse. She is rarely written by anyone else outside of this.

And yet she is not a X-Men character, but a Marvel Universe Character.

When Roma debuted Chris Claremont hadn't even written an issue of Uncanny X-Men yet.

[Beast]

Because she's not that important to people besides Claremont.
Because very few people do stories about protecting the multiverse. :p

She doesn't just appear at random to fight Ultron with the Avengers, or go into the Negative zone with the Fantastic Four. She's the overseer of the Multiverse. What part of that don't you grasp?

[Arilou]

Because What If? wasn't tales about protecting the Multiverse. There's a difference.

Watcher = Watches. Roma = Protects. See, there's a pretty major difference there.

Some of them where, like What if? X-men lost Inferno or What If? Korvac had beaten the Avengers.

[Pach!]

Because very few people do stories about protecting the multiverse. :p

She doesn't just appear at random to fight Ultron with the Avengers, or go into the Negative zone with the Fantastic Four. She's the overseer of the Multiverse. What part of that don't you grasp?
I'm not saying she doesn't exist,or that she doesnt have any function. I meant that the only writer who thinks she's important is Claremont. and you (jk)

[mikeyb]

Because What If? wasn't tales about protecting the Multiverse. There's a difference.

Watcher = Watches. Roma = Protects. See, there's a pretty major difference there.

Yes but the point of What if is adventures in the multiverse and since she plays such an important part, she should've appeared a couple of times instead of NONE. Shes a Claremont loved character and is only important to him.

[Beast]

I'm not saying she doesn't exist,or that she doesnt have any function. I meant that the only writer who thinks she's important is Claremont. and you (jk)
Which is only because Claremont is one of the few writers who actually do alternate reality stories or deal with the multiverse. Basically, it's like complaining that the writer of the FCBD Runaways storyline brought the X-Men in due to Molly. Even though they never showed any interest in Molly before that point.

[Pach!]

What about the whole run of exiles.Why do you think those writers didn't bring her in?

[jarrod]

Bull. I read much more outside of X-Men than anything. And what title is she in other than an X-title? Has she been in Avengers? Fantastic Four? It makes logical sense to Claremont and his fans and no one else.
She was in FF iirc... though I'd expect the usual suspects to downplay that due to the writer involved. ;)


What about the whole run of exiles.Why do you think those writers didn't bring her in?
Dunno, maybe they're not fans of the downright genius Moore/Davis CB stuff. Still the best alternate reality stories ever done though, without question.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

What about the whole run of exiles.Why do you think those writers didn't bring her in?

More than likely because they didn't know an awful lot about that, as many posters don't seem to know about it either.

It's all in the Handbooks. It is canon.

Re: The Living Tribunal. Wasn't his role to judge acts which might destroy worlds within a universe and punish those responsible - as his name suggests?

[Brian M.]

Well I can tell for those that like these two books and are fans of Claremont's old Omniverse/Multiverse/Roma type stuff that this should be an awesome crossover.

For me, I've never been a big fan of that type stuff in his books. Mostly b/c I don't know the full history of it all so I'm left looking at something wondering if I should know what that is and the significance of it or not.

[Nachturne]

Or maybe they didn't use it because it's dumb, antiquated and thought they could (AND DID!!!) do better?? And you're right jarrod. But bringing up an instance of where Claremont's pet character is used outside of the Xmen in a book Claremont wrote is kind of undermining your point.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Or maybe they didn't use it because it's dumb, antiquated and thought they could (AND DID!!!) do better?? And you're right jarrod. But bringing up an instance of where Claremont's pet character is used outside of the Xmen in a book Claremont wrote is kind of undermining your point.

So basically, what you're saying is that it's preferable to drop anything that happened in comics before 2000, for more modern perspectives omn things. Because they're not to your particular flavour...:eek: :D

You still can't get away from it ALL being canon.

[Beast]

Or maybe they didn't use it because it's dumb, antiquated and thought they could (AND DID!!!) do better??
Jim Shooter, is that you? You're right, let's toss out all the continuity and canon and start fresh. :p

[Beast]

So basically, what you're saying is that it's preferable to drop anything that happened in comics before 2000, for more modern perspectives omn things. Because they're not to your particular flavour...:eek: :D

You still can't get away from it ALL being canon.
Exactly. It's sad to hear comic fans want to go for the Jim Shooter "Slash and Burn" style. If people like these were around when ole Jimmy Shooter was trying to end all the books and start fresh with all new characters, they probably would have applauded. It's just really really sad.

[Nachturne]

So basically, what you're saying is that it's preferable to drop anything that happened in comics before 2000, for more modern perspectives omn things. Because they're not to your particular flavour...:eek: :D

Im saying that if a writer decides to omit something that may hold them back from telling the stories they want to tell, yet won't ruin the canon of what they are omitting...whats the problem?? And as mentioned Exiles isn't the first time that Roma wasn't used, and for the most part CC is the only one who uses her. Sure she's canon, but she's very specifically CC's canon. And sure, as CC fans you all wanna see it. Not so much those of use who breathed a breath of fresh air when we had a multiverse book that DIDN'T involve all that crap.


You still can't get away from it ALL being canon.

Yep. And Nightcrawler's daddy is the biblical Satan. Your right! It's alllll canon. Doesn't mean we have to like it when its dredged up and shoved in the books we love.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Im saying that if a writer decides to omit something that may hold them back from telling the stories they want to tell, yet won't ruin the canon of what they are omitting...whats the problem??

The problem comes later on, when it gets in the way of taking the book forward. And then somebody tries to bring it back into synch with the rest of continuity and BLAM! People SUDDENLY object.

And usually for no other reason than not have read anything from the past few decades.

Sure she's canon, but she's very specifically CC's canon. And sure, as CC fans you all wanna see it.

Technically she's Alan Moore's canon. Not Claremont's. Chrss created two Celtic Gods but never named them. Moore fleshed out their purpose and role within the multiverse.

Chris Clarmont just chopse to write stories which embraced, rather thn ignored, the canon.

[Beast]

Im saying that if a writer decides to omit something that may hold them back from telling the stories they want to tell, yet won't ruin the canon of what they are omitting...whats the problem?? And as mentioned Exiles isn't the first time that Roma wasn't used, and for the most part CC is the only one who uses her. Sure she's canon, but she's very specifically CC's canon. And sure, as CC fans you all wanna see it. Not so much those of use who breathed a breath of fresh air when we had a multiverse book that DIDN'T involve all that crap.
Then why are you endlessly complaining about how Claremont is handling Nocturne? But... but... but... it's okay for a writer I like to omit stuff that I don't like. But god forbid a writer that I don't like omit stuff that I do like. See where you start sliding into hypocritical thinking. And yeah, Roma doesn't get used a lot. Mostly because very few writers write stories that deal with the Multiverse. Outside of Alan Moore, Alan Davis, and Chris Claremont. Winick decided to follow in their footsteps, but not use Roma at that point. That doesn't mean she should never be used or become involved in a book that is signifigantly dealing with an effecting the Multiverse that she oversees and protects. And it's adorable how you sling around terms like crap. It really hurts your argument when you can't have a discussion without the bashing and trashing. I'm not sitting here and whining that Winick's stuff was crap. But I guess that's too much to ask for.
Yep. And Nightcrawler's daddy is the biblical Satan. Your right! It's alllll canon. Doesn't mean we have to like it when its dredged up and shoved in the books we love.
To quote Dr. Cox: "Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You're wrong. So wrong." His father isn't the biblical Satan. He's an ancient mutant who was the inspiration for the physical look of Satan. Just because someone doesn't like a story doesn't make it non-canon. If that was true, nothing would be canon. Because there's always someone who's going to dislike a certain story.

[Novaya Havoc]

Jim Shooter, is that you? You're right, let's toss out all the continuity and canon and start fresh. :p

Jim Shooter fixed the Dark Phoenix Saga for Claremont. I wouldn't go around bashing creators that, you know, had good ideas.

[Beast]

Jim Shooter fixed the Dark Phoenix Saga for Claremont. I wouldn't go around bashing creators that, you know, had good ideas.
Actually he didn't. He simply gave two options for how the story had to end. Even Weezie has said as much. Either Phoenix had to die, or she's in hell forever. He didn't write it or fix it. And who's bashing?

[Nachturne]

Then why are you endlessly complaining about how Claremont is handling Nocturne? But... but... but... it's okay for a writer I like to omit stuff that I don't like. But god forbid a writer that I don't like omit stuff that I do like. See where you start sliding into hypocritical thinking. And yeah, Roma doesn't get used a lot. Mostly because very few writers write stories that deal with the Multiverse. Outside of Alan Moore, Alan Davis, and Chris Claremont. Winick decided to follow in their footsteps, but not use Roma at that point. That doesn't mean she should never be used or become involved in a book that is signifigantly dealing with an effecting the Multiverse that she oversees and protects. And it's adorable how you sling around terms like crap. It really hurts your argument when you can't have a discussion without the bashing and trashing. I'm not sitting here and whining that Winick's stuff was crap. But I guess that's too much to ask for.

Oh come on. There's a huge difference between omitting stuff but not screwing up the continuity and COMPLETELY destroying a character. I've already explained it, but jeez. No wonder you guys like Claremont. You need everything explained out word for word.

And I never said I'm not a hypocrit. The trick is getting the rest of you to realise your own hypocrisies :P. Claremont can do no wrong!! EVEN when he's doing wrong! BWAHAHAHA!


To quote Dr. Cox: "Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. You're wrong. So wrong." His father isn't the biblical Satan. He's an ancient mutant who was the inspiration for the physical look of Satan. Just because someone doesn't like a story doesn't make it non-canon. If that was true, nothing would be canon. Because there's always someone who's going to dislike a certain story.

Technicalities technicalities *yawn*. I know the story, I know he's not actually Satan, but it's what fanbrats who can't read between the lines love to spout. And when did I ever say anything wasn't canon? I never once made that remark, in fact I AGREED it's all canon! It's just being canon doesn't make a story good/acceptable/right. It just means its there.

Jeez, guys, argue with the POINTS we're making, not the ones you THINK you're reading!

[drwho]

Since the Roma topic is brought up was there any point to her giving the X-Men the seige perilous, or her involvement in Fall of the Mutants?

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Oh come on. There's a huge difference between omitting stuff but not screwing up the continuity and COMPLETELY destroying a character. I've already explained it, but jeez. No wonder you guys like Claremont. You need everything explained out word for word.

No. The difference is that your opinion on Claremont's handling of Nocturne is purely that. YOUR opinion. Not evreybody agrees with it. I partly agree with it, but nowhere near to the degree that you do yourself.

Exiles not acknowledging 25 years of continuity regarding the status and rules of the multiverse is fact. Not personal opinion. It's actually there on the page.

Previous eXiles writers have not meshed the book in with the establish Marvel Multiverse. It really is as simple as that.

[Arilou]

His Job is to maintain cosmic balance between universes. If anything threatens the multiverse it is his job to stop it.

He's essentially one step below God.

[Novaya Havoc]

Previous eXiles writers have not meshed the book in with the establish Marvel Multiverse. It really is as simple as that.

Which, in my opinion, keeps the title fresh and lively. Character consistency? - good. Trying to make heads or tales over "cross-time" and multiple universes? - headache.

[ImpulseUCF]

Not a Deus Ex Machina, which is an overused and idiotic term, or a plot device. If the shoe fits...

And what is wrong with the term? If it's accurate, it's accurate.

And Roma is not a plot device, she's a character.A character can be a plot device. :rolleyes: You know this, right?

Not a cop-out. Absolute fact. Talk to Aristotle, even he knew that it was true. Allow me to clarify. I didn't say that the statement was a cop-out or in anyway untrue. What is a cop-out is using that statement to defend repetitive, derivative unoriginal presentations and executions of the core archetype concepts. If Claremont recycles the same characters, stories and crap in the same way he always did and you say "Oh well, everything's already old, anyway." THAT is a cop-out. Other stories can take old themes and present them in a way that is fresh.
He's hardly the only one to use Roma or Otherworld. And definatly not the only one to use the Captain Britain Corps or Lila Cheney. Check your facts there. When did I ever say he's the only one who has ever used her in all time? I said he uses her frequently. And for the record, tell me the last time anyone other than Claremont used her in the last 10 years beyond a cameo, or at all.

Mike Carey's X-Men is fresh, but it's hardly original. And it's also using tons of established continuity and canon in addition to new takes on old stuff.Bingo! A fresh take on an established concept. What a novel idea!

Y: The Last Man isn't a new concept or idea either. See, you keep falling back on stuff that hurts your core argument. No, you apparently don't understand my core argument. Y: The Last Man exemplifies a fresh, new, fun and exciting take on a concept that is already established. If you had bothered to read my argument, you'd know that. I understand Y is not a new idea; it's just extremely well-written and executed. I've yet to be able to say the same about any Roma story.

Given you don't seem to know anything about her, you wouldn't really know.You're mistaken. I know plenty about her. That is why I don't like her. She bores me, and she's old and tired and the same and boring.

[Novaya Havoc]

Exactly. It's sad to hear comic fans want to go for the Jim Shooter "Slash and Burn" style. If people like these were around when ole Jimmy Shooter was trying to end all the books and start fresh with all new characters, they probably would have applauded. It's just really really sad.

You're using straw-men, Beast. That never happened, it didn't happen, and it fails to relate at all to Chris Claremont.

He's not the hierophant in the tarot, nor should he be treated as such.

[Frodo-X]

I gotta say, some of you seem to know all the ins and outs of what'll happen in the next few issues, and that they're utter crap.


Which is odd, since they aren't out yet. :confused:

I mean, seriously, how can you dismiss this stuff when it's not out yet? I didn't like Civil War:X-men, so I didn't buy Silent War. But I wasn't talking about how Silent War would be crap. I said it could be, but last I checked, I'm not precognative.

So you admit that Claremont used to be good, but hasn't been lately. Why not wait and see if he's good again before picking fights about how stupid his ideas are before they're even out for us to see?

Remember: When Carey's team was announced, nearly every one of you thought his book would be terrible. "Sabretooth? Mystique? Are you KIDDING?!" But now look; you're using his book as an example of good stuff.

Wait, people. Wait for the book.

[Nachturne]

No. The difference is that your opinion on Claremont's handling of Nocturne is purely that. YOUR opinion. Not evreybody agrees with it. I partly agree with it, but nowhere near to the degree that you do yourself.

Exiles not acknowledging 25 years of continuity regarding the status and rules of the multiverse is fact. Not personal opinion. It's actually there on the page.


Wow....cause.....Claremont's poor handling of Nocturne is also fact. It's actually there on the page. Sure, the degree to which it is is personal opinion, but if one were to say that CC hadn't gotten a single thing wrong about her, they'd be wrong. Because he did. And it's actually right there on the page.

But there's a big difference between contradictions and omissions. And this also isn't the Nocturne thread, so I digress :P. An omission is not making any statement that something doesn't exist. It's just not using it. That's not bad. Exiles was brilliant in the beginning, we didn't need Roma. If CC wan'ts to wedge his character and concepts in the book, well, he can can't he? Do Exiles fans have to be happy about it? Nope. Are we? HELL no. Because maybe it was cool to have a book about the multiverse that didn't deal with tired concepts, and that was new and fresh. This book (as we are seeing from that interview) will be a vehicle for Claremont to write all the crap he couldn't before. Bully for CC fans. Sucks for the rest of us.

Who wants to bet that over time the characters will slowly be replaced with CC's creations and all the worlds from Cross Time Caper will be revisited?? WOO! I really wanted to read everything I already read all over again with a few new characters!

[Novaya Havoc]

I still maintain that Sage will replace Heather Hudson on Exiles. Write it down.

[Nachturne]

I still maintain that Sage will replace Heather Hudson on Exiles. Write it down.

And if it happens, it'll "make so much sense!" :rolleyes:

[ImpulseUCF]

I suspect you may be tired of arguing now because you've stumbled into a whole area of the structure of Marvel comics which you did not realise existed before. Oh, please. I'm tired of arguing because I don't like having my time wasted. Selective application of logic and continuity making arguing about this with you guys pointless.
Well, when the rest of the Marvel Universe has accepted abd embraced it with every alternate universe story over the past 25 years why should Exiles be a 'Special' case? That would be out OOC. It wouldn't make sense.When has the rest of the MU accepted and embraced it? Please, tell me, I'll buy the issues if you can show me someone outside of Claremont, Davis or Moore to use it.
Anytime you go off that track you are writing OOC.False. It can coexist without being OOC or contradicting. The bugs were stupid, but in its initial concept, the idea of the multiverse having its own immune system as a natural part of the system was bloody brilliant and in no way impeded on Roma. It just thanfully kept her boring, plot-device ass out of the stories and kept the book from getting canned :).

Again, your missing the point here. This isn't JUST Excalibur. It never has been. It is every. book. in. Marvel's. canon.You're missing the point. I agree its canon. So is Exiles. They can clearly exist within the same shared universe without imposing one on the other. Why must they now? It's not necessary. Can I make it any clearer?
There's a big difference between a plot device and a deity. Would you call The Watcher a plot device?No. He watches and talks. He's a narrator :P. Haven't you guys studied literature and writing?

[Jake V]

Where was Roma during the Infinity Gauntlet?

Did she play any part at all?

[Mikl C]

Roma is LAME.

[Hi-Fi]

Aw, I love Lila Cheney but I heart Novaya!! What to do?? :(

[Pach!]

Preaching to the choir, brother.

[Hi-Fi]

Roma is LAME.
But Venice is awesome!


FUNNY, RIGHT???~~????;) ;)

[Hi-Fi]

But Venice is awesome!


FUNNY, RIGHT???~~????;) ;)

Oh, my joke only makes sense because Rome=Roma in portuguese. It's still unfunny, though.

[Mikl C]

Oh, my joke only makes sense because Rome=Roma in portuguese. It's still unfunny, though.

Awh I still got it :o
It was funny!
*pats head*

[Hi-Fi]

Awh I still got it :o
It was funny!
*pats head*
Dude, let's totally sing some Lila Cheney tune!!

[drwho]

Here is a suggestion have Lila Cheney and Dazzler become a rock duet and get their own comic book. James Guthries decomposing corpse can play the guitar. :D

[Beast]

Wow....cause.....Claremont's poor handling of Nocturne is also fact. It's actually there on the page. Sure, the degree to which it is is personal opinion, but if one were to say that CC hadn't gotten a single thing wrong about her, they'd be wrong. Because he did. And it's actually right there on the page.
No, it's opinion. You do understand the difference between opinion and fact, right?
WOO! I really wanted to read everything I already read all over again with a few new characters!
You already did. It was called World Tour.

[DDM]

I still don't see how the Exiles existence needs to disrupt the multiverse, Roma, Otherworld, or anything. Just because Winnick didn't talk about it did not mean he was destroying or erasing or damaging it at all. He just left it out and told his own, more personal stories that did not conflict with what had come before and allowed for a different and much more interesting take. Why must everyone talk about and acknowedlege obscure, decades-old UK Marvel titles and force it upon every single story ever?

Roma & Otherworld needs to be strong supporting characters or returning supporting characters since Exiles deals with alternate realities. The Exiles will knot up the sidereal strings of the multiverse due to their so-called "good deeds" precisely all of them come from separate alternate dimensions.

Roma will more than likely use Exiles to her advantage. However, she rarely gets personally involved; instead, she pulls the strings & sets up the certain characters to act on her behalf. In this instance, Psylocke is Roma's pawn. Roma's role in the multiverse is to make sure it functions correctly, but she need not get personally involved because it might make more of a mess. Depending on the circumstance, she may be involved such as when she guides Colossus to Dallas, Texas to rejoin the X-Men to be her ace in the hole from the ancient Adversary (the Adversary had taken over Roma's fortress & made it his own). But most of the time she guides things from Otherworld in her Starlight Citadel. Think of Roma of performing micro-surgery on a patient, but this patient is the multiverse. It requires subtle, specific precision--not that of a blunt force object.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Where was Roma during the Infinity Gauntlet?

Did she play any part at all?

Infinity gauntlet wasn't cross time + it was said that Thanos had the competence to become the new supreme entity of this universe. Even if you can not agree with his vision. That was the diference with Warlock who when he got the infinity gauntlet was judged unable to rule and had to gave most of the gems to other peoples.

[Scavenger]

If this becomes a Roma love-fest, we'll watch the sales numbers and see how many people really care.
:rolleyes: I know who Roma is. I know her role.

But do you know what she's cooking?

[DDM]

Where was Roma during the Infinity Gauntlet?

Did she play any part at all?

Roma cares for the multiverse. I don't think she needed to be involved during The Infinity Gauntlet since it was only one reality. Thanos basically subplanted Eternity. Thanos was not breaking any universal laws.

[Novaya Havoc]

Dude, let's totally sing some Lila Cheney tune!!

I love you, but you use Lila Cheney to pierce my heart. Ugh. :(

Here is a suggestion have Lila Cheney and Dazzler become a rock duet and get their own comic book. James Guthries decomposing corpse can play the guitar. :D

Lila Cheney fans hate Dazzler.
http://www.geocities.com/lilacheney4ever/bio.htm

And I will hate you if you ever bring up my worst nightmare again. :p

[Nachturne]

Here is a suggestion have Lila Cheney and Dazzler become a rock duet and get their own comic book. James Guthries decomposing corpse can play the guitar. :D

Can Nocturne come too and they can all make out?? That'd R0X0R

[Jake V]

Roma cares for the multiverse. I don't think she needed to be involved during The Infinity Gauntlet since it was only one reality. Thanos basically subplanted Eternity. Thanos was not breaking any universal laws.

He was a death-obsessed tyrant with his hands on both the time gem and the reality gem. This wouldn't concern her?

[Nachturne]

No, it's opinion. You do understand the difference between opinion and fact, right?

Ugh selective memory much?? Dude, he got her powers wrong. He did. We know this. He really truly strawberries and sugar on top did. It's right there. On the page. In the book he wrote. He got it wrong. And no matter how many ways you try to explain around it/make up excuses it's wrong.

Maybe I can come up with 1000 reasons why it makes sense that Winick ignored Roma. Would that make my argument better??

[Beast]

He was a death-obsessed tyrant with his hands on both the time gem and the reality gem. This wouldn't concern her?
It wouldn't effect the multiverse as a whole, so I see no reason why it would.

[Stephane Garrelie]

He was a death-obsessed tyrant with his hands on both the time gem and the reality gem. This wouldn't concern her?

No. See my post above.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Thanos was judged competent.
His vision may be.... different, but he was competent.

[Jake V]

No. See my post above.

So what needs to happen for her to do something?

Besides Claremont writing the book.

[Brian M.]

Was Roma in Inifity Crisis?

[Stephane Garrelie]

So what needs to happen for her to do something?

Besides Claremont writing the book.

Alan Moore writing the book :p

[Jake V]

Thanos was judged competent.
His vision may be.... different, but he was competent.

His vision was the death of everyone in the universe.

If that was deemed competent, why would anyone defer to Roma ever?

[Stephane Garrelie]

More seriously if Marvel's EIC was still someone who care for continuity, like Roy Thomas, all this would have been clarified for a long time.

[Jake V]

More seriously if Marvel's EIC was still someone who care for continuity, like Roy Thomas, all this would have been clarified for a long time.

But no one would be buying the books, so who would notice?

[Stephane Garrelie]

His vision was the death of everyone in the universe.

If that was deemed competent, why would anyone defer to Roma ever?

In what does this endanger the rest of the multiverse? Let the guy have his fun.

[Stephane Garrelie]

But no one would be buying the books, so who would notice?

;) I won't be so sure about that if i was you.

[Jake V]

In what does this endanger the rest of the multiverse? Let the guy have his fun.

So if he decided to take his death tour to another universe, then she would notice?

[ImpulseUCF]

It wouldn't effect the multiverse as a whole, so I see no reason why it would.Shennanigans! I call shennanigans! If 616 is the prime reality and a death-obsessed, nigh-omnipotent being has shanghaied the ability to alter the fabric of reality and time itself and she doesn't show up? Then she sucks at her job and needs to be fired. That's why Winnick left her out...she got sacked! ;)

Just because it was canon and mentioned once before doesn't mean it needs to be brought up every single time.

You people won't be happy until Claremont just hijacks a book and writes secknd-rate rehashes of his Uncanny X-Men and Excalibur work. I mean, seriously. I'm a Claremont fan, and just interacting with you lot is turning me off to his work.

[Stephane Garrelie]

So if he decided to take his death tour to another universe, then she would notice?

If he does it too often, yes.

[Jake V]

;) I won't be so sure about that if i was you.

I'm sure than an EIC who is concerned with making comics that everyone wants to buy will sell more comics than an EIC that is concerned with making comics that only nerds can understand.

[Jake V]

If he does it too often, yes.

Not much of a protector then, is she?

[Crimson]

Personally, I way preferred when they had no home to speak of at all, and were completely at the whim of the "Timebroker". All they had were each other, and they had to deal with that whether they got along or not (Ilyanna). It made for a very interesting team dynamic because their only constant was each other. I think Exiles loses (lost) something big when thats taken away.

See I much prefer that they have a homebase. It hasn't been used to its fullest yet, but we finally have a place where the team can have some down time... be shown as a family which is starting to happen.

Although that's just me. I love the smaller, quieter character moments.

[Stephane Garrelie]

I'm sure than an EIC who is concerned with making comics that everyone wants to buy will sell more comics than an EIC that is concerned with making comics that only nerds can understand.

Yes. But you know thats only since the 90s that there're problems.
Thats when all the nonsense really began.
Not that they weren't little things from time to time before, but it was easy to retcon them.
I agree that Quesada is a far better EIC than Harras, and I really welcomed his nomination as EIC. I think too that he fully deserved to have it reconducted, even if there were things i didn't like in his first mandate. But i have to say that i considere his second mandate a let down.

[ImpulseUCF]

If he does it too often, yes.boy, so it takes universal genocide on a cosmic scale across how many countless realities before Roma will even bat an eyelash?

Boy, that sure makes it harder to accept she'd notice 6 mutants popping in for a few days.

I'm sure than an EIC who is concerned with making comics that everyone wants to buy will sell more comics than an EIC that is concerned with making comics that only nerds can understand.Heh.

[ImpulseUCF]

See I much prefer that they have a homebase. It hasn't been used to its fullest yet, but we finally have a place where the team can have some down time... be shown as a family which is starting to happen.

Although that's just me. I love the smaller, quieter character moments.
Dude, did you read Exiles when Winnick was writing it? He has a mastery over characterization, bonding, social interaction and bonding as a family. I'd like to see more of it, sure, but I promise you, they don't need a homebase for that to happen.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Not much of a protector then, is she?

More seriously, i think she monitor closely events like infinity Gauntlet and looks at the direction taken. Infinity Gauntlet was solved by the Inhabitants of the 616 universe. There was probably other universes were Thanos won. What did happen there? Maybe just that everything stopped to exist. Including Thanos himself.

And if Roma choosed to oblitere this universe? Then that would have been just what Thanos wanted.

[Stephane Garrelie]

boy, so it takes universal genocide on a cosmic scale across how many countless realities before Roma will even bat an eyelash?

Boy, that sure makes it harder to accept she'd notice 6 mutants popping in for a few days.

Heh.

I was joking.;)

[malephoenix]

...you hardly get to see solid, beautiful art (ive read exiles for a while, i thought most of the art were bleh, couldnt it help them if they hired a really good artist??)

I hope your thumbs fall off in the name of Jim Calafiore! (Easily one of my top five artists. Ever. I go where he goes.)

[Stephane Garrelie]

Like with Mad Jim (see Alan Moore/Alan Davis's Captain Britain) Roma & Merlyn react when an universe begins to menace the others.
It is all about the probability of the danger.
In the case of Infinite gauntlet it would have been an implosion, not an explosion.

[Jake V]

More seriously, i think she monitor closely events like infinity Gauntlet and looks at the direction taken. Infinity Gauntlet was solved by the Inhabitants of the 616 universe. There was probably other universe were Thanos won. What did happen there. Maybe just that everything stoppet to exist. Including Thanos himself.

And if Roma choosed to oblitere this universe? Then that would have been just what Thanos wanted.

If the "maybe things aren't supposed to exist" option is on the table, why does she have a job protecting the multiverse at all?

And if "obliterate the universe" is one of her options, she's a horrible protector.


So essentially her role is either completely useless or something she's bad at.

Mikl said it much better than I did: Roma is lame.

[mikeyb]

Sorry , but I remember one part in Infinity Gauntlet when all cosmic creatures gather because the 616 universe was gonna be destroyed. Where was Roma when this gathering occured?

[Stephane Garrelie]

If the "maybe things aren't supposed to exist" option is on the table, why does she have a job protecting the multiverse at all?

And if "obliterate the universe" is one of her options, she's a horrible protector.


So essentially her role is either completely useless or something she's bad at.

Mikl said it much better than I did: Roma is lame.

616 is only a time line amongst many others since Moore.

Before Moore and the 616 stuff, yes we had what could have been called Marvel's Earth 1 which was more important than the others. Sort of the mother dimension (see "What if...?" vol.1 #1 by Roy Thomas). But today thats not the case anymore.

Roma protect the mutiverse, and if a time-line must be destroyed to protect the others, well it will be done.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Sorry , but I remember one part in Infinity Gauntlet when all cosmic creatures gather because the 616 universe was gonna be destroyed. Where was Roma when this gathering occured?

Cosmic creatures of 616 and on end dimensions.

[Novaya Havoc]

I'm sure than an EIC who is concerned with making comics that everyone wants to buy will sell more comics than an EIC that is concerned with making comics that only nerds can understand.

Sig'd, Mr. V. Sig'd.

[Scavenger]

Shennanigans! I call shennanigans! If 616 is the prime reality and a death-obsessed, nigh-omnipotent being has shanghaied the ability to alter the fabric of reality and time itself and she doesn't show up? .


That's the whole point. It's NOT the prime reality. It's just reality #616 of an infinite number of them. That's why Moore came up with the number 616 instead of calling it Earth 1 or A or Prime.

[Stephane Garrelie]

Bye the way it is clear that Roma acts indirectly, through agents, excepted when she choose to obliterate a dimension.

[End of Time]

I hope your thumbs fall off in the name of Jim Calafiore! (Easily one of my top five artists. Ever. I go where he goes.)


I can't say I disagree with not liking Calafiore. The way he draws faces is something that doesn't interest me at all, in fact I think the way he draws faces is downright ugly. His women seem to suffer the least in my eyes, but the way he draws the male face comes across as very amateurish to me, it's as if I'm looking at fan-art.

When he does a portrait en face, his males seem to have really long and thing noses, and he adds angular lines across the face, these lines are so defined that they tend to distract and detract from the face. The eyes also tend to fall away, he makes them very watery, but he also leaves the lowest line of the eye open, the lack of curving lines distracts there as well in my opinion.

His use of shadows, or rather his use of black, isn't something that appeals to me. The lines are, again, often angular, and very pronounced, making the black spaces jump out, and make them appear out of place due to their presence in a drawing when something has colour.