CBR NEWS: Cross-Time Flies: Claremont Talks "Exiles" [Archive] - Page 2

End of Time

03-22-2007, 02:24 PM

And if "obliterate the universe" is one of her options, she's a horrible protector.

How so, if a doctor treats a patient who has concer, it's his goal to obliterate the cancer, to remove it, to kill it, because if the doctor doesn't kill it, it'll spread out and kill the patient.

If one reality exceeds its boundaries, Roma steps in, she then chooses to fix it, or if it is beyond repair, she can destroy it.

So essentially her role is either completely useless or something she's bad at.

So no, she's not useless and she's not bad at her job. In fact she's actually quite good at what she does. The multiverse hasn't been destroyed, has it? It still exists, ergo she's doing a great job.

Also having one situation escalate to the point of having to destroy a universe to stop the problem only shows that she doesn't think lightly of her task, first she employs all methods she has at her disposal, and then, if those fail, she can sterilize the problem by destroying it.

Much like a doctor, you don't amputate right away, but if you can't salvage it anymore, then it'll have to be removed.

Mikl said it much better than I did: Roma is lame.

Thank you for stating opinion as fact, play again?

drwho

03-22-2007, 02:25 PM

I think Roma is pretty lame myself. Anyone else want to join the fun?

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 02:51 PM

I hope your thumbs fall off in the name of Jim Calafiore! (Easily one of my top five artists. Ever. I go where he goes.)

Awesome artist and a gem as a human being. Seriously, one of the most amazing people I've met.

So no, she's not useless and she's not bad at her job. In fact she's actually quite good at what she does. The multiverse hasn't been destroyed, has it? It still exists, ergo she's doing a great job.

So, as long as my workplace doesn't like..implode or burn to the ground, I'm doing a good job? MAN I am asking for a raise!!

End of Time

03-22-2007, 03:02 PM

So, as long as my workplace doesn't like..implode or burn to the grounbd, I'm doing a good job? MAN I am asking for a raise!!

Is it your job to prevent your workplace from not burning to the ground? If so, you're doing a good job.

DDM

03-22-2007, 03:04 PM

boy, so it takes universal genocide on a cosmic scale across how many countless realities before Roma will even bat an eyelash?

Boy, that sure makes it harder to accept she'd notice 6 mutants popping in for a few days.

Heh.

Mandragon obliterated an entire universe in an effort to rid reality of the Fury; however, the Fury survived & entered the 616 reality just as the mainstream Jim Jaspers started going bonkers with his powers. Opal Luna Saturnyne--originally from Earth-9--used this to regain her former role as Majestrix of Otherworld. Saturnyne threated to regrow James Jaspers from cell samples she had taken from him, but Roma had burnt the cells beyond recognition so Saturnyne could not regrow Jaspers.

The Earth Mandragon obliterated belonged to Captain UK, but her presence of Earth 616 caused Warpies being born. The Warpies originally were caused by James Jaspers warping reality & thought to return to normal after Jaspers died. This was not so. Warpies continued to exists & the Crazy Gang remained (also created by Jaspers).

Captain Uk was moved to Sat-Yr-9's Earth (to replace the deceased Kaptain Briton).

Roma only destroys a universe if it has the potential to infect other realities. Mandragon did so. Saturnyne would do so as shown when the Scarlet Witch's hex sphere created a reality breach in Uncanny X-Men #462-465 & completely disrupted Otherworld.

Otherworld's disruption may have given rise to the Lionhearts (evil Captain Britains).

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 03:09 PM

Is it your job to prevent your workplace from not burning to the ground? If so, you're doing a good job.

Isn't that everyone's job? Or just the janitor? Heh. Roma. She's the bee's knees.

Stephane Garrelie

03-22-2007, 03:14 PM

Isn't that everyone's job? Or just the janitor? Heh. Roma. She's the bee's knees.

I hope for you that there're not as dangerous people in your work place as in the multiverse.

End of Time

03-22-2007, 03:18 PM

Isn't that everyone's job? Or just the janitor? Heh. Roma. She's the bee's knees.

But can your workplace destroy every other workplace in existence if you neglect it?

Syzygy

03-22-2007, 03:56 PM

"'Why does everybody have to be human? Why does everybody have to be mammalian even? We can have other versions and incarnations of the Marvel characters,' Claremont stated. 'Like a race of people descended from dinosaurs or insects.'"

R'CHLL!!!!!

Everybody has to be human because, with rare exceptions like, say, Watership Down, that's what works to get reader identification going.

Ultimately, literature is about us as human beings living amidst the human condition. The further removed from humankind the characters are, the harder it is to evoke reader interest, sympathy, identification, and suspension of deisbelief.

It can be done, but it gets more difficult to pull off successfully the further out an author moves.

Peace,
Syzygy

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 04:02 PM

But can your workplace destroy every other workplace in existence if you neglect it?

Absolutely.

tetragene

03-22-2007, 04:10 PM

blinkinrogue

03-22-2007, 04:30 PM

shhheeeeshhh, wizard didnt even bother to put their review for exiles in their thursday quarterback (again)... yep they sure love this title....

Frodo-X

03-22-2007, 04:31 PM

I'm just a bit confused from reading the interview. CC talks about doing really creative things and more than just "character A is on the right instead of left" and what have you. Yet his first two storylines are just taking 616 heroes and reversing their roles...and the "Mystic" thing isn't anything so bold and brazen either. It's just taking Mystique and having her live out her life primarily as a male instead of a female...

Where's all the bold, brave new direction that people keeps raving about? I didn't hear too much difference from what was said in the interview and what normally happens in Exiles.
I think he's sticking to the simpler variations while he gets the team set and everything where he wants it, and then he'll start getting into the more extreme variations when everything else is ready, so more focus can be placed on the individual universe instead of juggling it with bringing in Psylocke, having Roma do her thing, establishing new arch-villains, etc.

He's keeping the background simple while he resets the status quo, and then we'll see the bold, brave new stuff.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-22-2007, 05:06 PM

I think he's sticking to the simpler variations while he gets the team set and everything where he wants it, and then he'll start getting into the more extreme variations when everything else is ready, so more focus can be placed on the individual universe instead of juggling it with bringing in Psylocke, having Roma do her thing, establishing new arch-villains, etc.

He's keeping the background simple while he resets the status quo, and then we'll see the bold, brave new stuff.

That's how I peg it, too. Which after the last six months of Bedard's run is a very welcome addition. I don't begrudge Bedard for his tenure, but he wrote it to a close after World's Tour. Having to cover until Chris Claremont was well enough to take on writing chores didn't really do the book or him an awful lot of favours. He'd kind of exhausted his good ideas, and had to come up with some more at short notice - which sadly was quite patchy.

Beast

03-22-2007, 05:10 PM

Not to mention Marvel's oretty much made him write nothing but X-Books since coming back. Especially when Marvel tried to keep everyone seperate. No guest stars like the Avengers of Fantastic Four turning up for a couple issues. So it's nice to see him playing with the Fantastic Four, Doom, Nick Fury, Elektra, Captain America, etc. At least it's not as people originally complained about, nothing but X-Related stories. Remember when everyone thought Madam Hydra was Storm and had a fit? Yeah. ;)

The Sword Is Drawn

03-22-2007, 05:22 PM

Beast

03-22-2007, 05:26 PM

Absolutely. It always amazes me quite how fickle fanboys/girls can be...:rolleyes:
Should drag that thread back up. Just to see all the "Storm, Ugh" comments. :D

ImpulseUCF

03-22-2007, 05:32 PM

But can your workplace destroy every other workplace in existence if you neglect it?It can if her workplace is Lockheed Martin. ;)

The Sword Is Drawn

03-22-2007, 05:46 PM

It can if her workplace is Lockheed Martin. ;)

http://www.geocities.com/caption_britain/lockheed.jpg

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 06:17 PM

I'm just a bit confused from reading the interview. CC talks about doing really creative things and more than just "character A is on the right instead of left" and what have you. Yet his first two storylines are just taking 616 heroes and reversing their roles...and the "Mystic" thing isn't anything so bold and brazen either. It's just taking Mystique and having her live out her life primarily as a male instead of a female...

Where's all the bold, brave new direction that people keeps raving about? I didn't hear too much difference from what was said in the interview and what normally happens in Exiles.

I have to (and obviously) agree. And I love how everyone's applauding the male Mystique, but it's not like we haven't had gender bending Exiles before. Female Sunfire??

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:22 PM

I have to (and obviously) agree. And I love how everyone's applauding the male Mystique, but it's not like we haven't had gender bending Exiles before. Female Sunfire??
And? That wasn't a new idea either. Alternate realities with gender-swapped counterparts is old sci-fi stuff. Not to mention, Mariko wasn't a gender-bending version of Sunfire. She was an alternate reality version of the 616 Mariko Yashida (Sunfire's Cousin) who had Sunfire's powers. Huge difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunfire_%28Exiles%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariko_Yashida

fishtaco

03-22-2007, 06:22 PM

Why would he wanna be with the woman who aborted his baby?? Say what now?

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 06:26 PM

I have to (and obviously) agree. And I love how everyone's applauding the male Mystique, but it's not like we haven't had gender bending Exiles before. Female Sunfire??

No it's not specifically new. Claremont was doing it back in Excalibur in '89, long before eXiles was even a glimmer of a concept. And it was hardly an original idea when HE did it...:rolleyes:

Novaya Havoc

03-22-2007, 06:28 PM

And? That wasn't a new idea either. Alternate realities with gender-swapped counterparts is old sci-fi stuff. Not to mention, Mariko wasn't a gender-bending version of Sunfire. She was an alternate reality version of the 616 Mariko Yashida (Sunfire's Cousin) who had Sunfire's powers. Huge difference.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunfire_%28Exiles%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mariko_Yashida

The real thing about "Mystic" is it reinforces that Exiles is a springboard in which Claremont can just pump out all his old plots those EVIL EDITORS denied him.

He always wanted to write Mystique as Destiny's lesbian lover, who went all tranny and popped some magic seeds into Irene to birth Nightcrawler. Admittedly a cool concept -- for 1982. Now he's just bringing it back with Rogue as the daughter instead.

It's weak.

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:30 PM

The real thing about "Mystic" is it reinforces that Exiles is a springboard in which Claremont can just pump out all his old plots those EVIL EDITORS denied him.

He always wanted to write Mystique as Destiny's lesbian lover, who went all tranny and popped some magic seeds into Irene to birth Nightcrawler. Admittedly a cool concept -- for 1982. Now he's just bringing it back with Rogue as the daughter instead.

It's weak.
Not really. Because Marvel and other writers acknowledge Mystique and Destiny. It's sad that you as a gay man have such issues with gay characters. I guess it's true that gay men have major issues with lesbians.

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 06:31 PM

Say what now?

Read issue 16 of Exiles. It's heavily hinted at and confirmed by WInick later.

And thats right, I forgot, it's impossible to come up with an original idea EVAR. So all comic writers are hacks. I love the faith people have in writers :rolleyes:

Novaya Havoc

03-22-2007, 06:32 PM

Not really. Because Marvel and other writers acknowledge Mystique and Destiny. It's sad that you as a gay man have such issues with gay characters. I guess it's true that gay men have major issues with lesbians.

No, I don't. Don't flip that coin and make it personal.

I have issues with CC's inherent obsession with the idea of two "chicks" mackin' it -- and he will. not. let. it. die.

It will be on-panel that Mystique banged Destiny and had a baby. IT WILL! I WILL GET YOU BACK, JAMES C. SHOOTER!

It's very transparent.

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:34 PM

Read issue 16 of Exiles. It's heavily hinted at and confirmed by WInick later.

And thats right, I forgot, it's impossible to come up with an original idea EVAR. So all comic writers are hacks. I love the faith people have in writers :rolleyes:
It's not on panel, so it being an abortion is not canon.

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 06:36 PM

I have issues with CC's inherent obsession with the idea of two "chicks" mackin' it -- and he will. not. let. it. die.

Whoa, hold on! So you find that threatening, or something?

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:37 PM

No, I don't. Don't flip that coin and make it personal.

I have issues with CC's inherent obsession with the idea of two "chicks" mackin' it -- and he will. not. let. it. die.

It will be on-panel that Mystique banged Destiny and had a baby. IT WILL! I WILL GET YOU BACK, JAMES C. SHOOTER!

It's very transparent.
Who made it personal? Everytime you post your mentioning lesbians. So I want to know what the deal is with the obsession or hatred of them. I know it's a common stereotype of gay males. Mostly due to the whole "Lesbians hawt, gays eww" dealie. So I just want to know why the contempt for two female characters being in love? Is it that offensive? And honestly, very few of his characters show lesbian tendencies. Unless you're obsessed with them and see lesbians in the shadows around every corner.

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 06:38 PM

It's not on panel, so it being an abortion is not canon.

Thats right because reading between the lines is like...way bad. It all needs to be spelled out in huge text boxes in every issue so we can remember. Subtlety is lost, and something as delicate as an abortion has to be screamed from the rooftops in order for it to be canon.

Or...it can be implied and a writer can have the balls to confirm it. Doubt it'll happen.

And Beast I dont think Novaya's sexuality is ANYONES business, especially to be brought up on the board. Whether or not he makes it public knowledge is HIS BUSINESS and I don't think it makes ANY difference in ANY conversation or context. Really really really uncool.

Flight

03-22-2007, 06:38 PM

lolz This is due for meltdown any minute.
I heart Exiles.

Kalen O.

03-22-2007, 06:39 PM

Whoa, hold on! So you find that threatening, or something?

*Sighs* Some say threatening, others say....god...awful...BORING.

Hell, and I can definitely appreciate the idea of two hot women going at it.....but umm, that's what porn is for. Getting beaten over the head with it over and over and OVER ad nauseam is just....yawn.

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:40 PM

Whoa, hold on! So you find that threatening, or something?
Most gay males do on some level. As I said, it's due to the reaction of straight males. How they find two lesbians as hot and two gay men as disgusting. So there's a split in the gay culture, where a lot of gay men are very vocal in their dislike or outright hatred of lesbians. Shame really.

Novaya Havoc

03-22-2007, 06:41 PM

Who made it personal? Everytime you post your mentioning lesbians. So I want to know what the deal is with the obsession or hatred of them. I know it's a common stereotype of gay males. Mostly due to the whole "Lesbians hawt, gays eww" dealie. So I just want to know why the contempt for two female characters being in love? Is it that offensive? And honestly, very few of his characters show lesbian tendencies.

Ad hominem and cyclical, Beast-o.

Didn't BC say to avoid trying to find the "motive" behind the point anyhow?

Point is CC is always making lesbianism and sexualized domination/submission prevalent undertones in his work. He is obsessed with putting the full, raw idea of a mutant transsexual having sex with her lesbian lover in print. Because that's somehow current or edgy.

To the point: Yes, lesbian relationships are great to see in comics, and I encourage them. Just not from the mind of someone who trivializes them in this medium. To wit, I will take your "lesbians hawt, gays eww" point againt me and strike it back at the genre as a whole. This male-dominated medium has that exact same outlook on female v. male homosexuality, and judging by his work, I do not think of Chris Claremont as someone "breaking down the barriers" to showcasing same-sex love. Quite the opposite. It's a cheap thrill, and he won't. let. it. go.

Jesse Newcomb

03-22-2007, 06:43 PM

I find no problem with Claremont being off his own little corner doing whatever his perverted brain wants to do. I just wish it wasn't at the expense of Exiles. Tony Bedard wasn't doing a bad job, I liked his run.

As long as you guys enjoy it, more power to you. I just wish Claremont would let Dazzler be pretty and straight again.

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:43 PM

*Sighs* Some say threatening, others say....god...awful...BORING.

Hell, and I can definitely appreciate the idea of two hot women going at it.....but umm, that's what porn is for. Getting beaten over the head with it over and over and OVER ad nauseam is just....yawn.
Not really. An adult relationship in comics between two women or two men shouldn't be something that automatically classes it as porn. Because Mystique/Destiny kissing or Hulkling/Wiccan kissing isn't any different than two characters like Scott/Jean kissing. It's all love, baby.

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:45 PM

I just wish Claremont would let Dazzler be pretty and straight again.
She is straight. And some of us find her pretty.

Kalen O.

03-22-2007, 06:45 PM

Most gay males do on some level. As I said, it's due to the reaction of straight males. How they find two lesbians as hot and two gay men as disgusting. So there's a split in the gay culture, where a lot of gay men are very vocal in their dislike or outright hatred of lesbians. Shame really.

Oh for the love of god. What was it Cronin was saying just last night in the X-Cres thread about refraining from analyzing other posters' motivations? Seriously dude. I'd hate for this to be construed as taking a 'side', as its just this thread I have a problem with, but its REALLY hypocritical of you to throw out the 'imagining lesbians everywhere you look' card and jump on people for 'harping' on that, when anyone could EASILY point out a dozen or so posts where you've pulled the same exact stuff with the Iceman crap and deliberately done it to push ProZZor X and other posters' buttons.

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 06:46 PM

Unless you're obsessed with them and see lesbians in the shadows around every corner.

That happened to me once. It was a very bad fortnight...:confused:

Hell, and I can definitely appreciate the idea of two hot women going at it.....but umm, that's what porn is for. Getting beaten over the head with it over and over and OVER ad nauseam is just....yawn.

Indeed it is. And let us never say that a little bit of porn is a bad thing. But not necessarily in a comic book...

I just don't see blatant lesbianism in what Claremont writes. Maybe a bit of subtle implied lesbianism by future versions of Kitty Pryde and Rachel Summers in Excalibur. But subtle is the word. I don't see it in any of his more recent stuff.

And god knows I look for hot women getting it on in an AWFUL LOT of places...:eek: :D

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 06:46 PM

Pfft you want a BRILLIANT comic about same sex lovin, why not look to this very title?? The Sunfire/MJ issue. Absolutely brilliant.

Kalen O.

03-22-2007, 06:47 PM

Not really. An adult relationship in comics between two women or two men shouldn't be something that automatically classes it as porn. Because Mystique/Destiny kissing or Hulkling/Wiccan kissing isn't any different than two characters like Scott/Jean kissing. It's all love, baby.

Yes, but I'm not talking about Mystique/Destiny. I actually like that storyline, so don't automatically assume I'm talking about all instances. And Hulkling/Wiccan is my current favorite couple in comics, thank you very much. I'm talking about the gratuitous unnecessary BORING stuff like bondage Storm and 'just had a sex change' Masque in The Arena in X-Treme.

Flight

03-22-2007, 06:47 PM

I can't tell whose on who's side lolz

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:50 PM

Oh for the love of god. What was it Cronin was saying just last night in the X-Cres thread about refraining from analyzing other posters' motivations? Seriously dude. I'd hate for this to be construed as taking a 'side', as its just this thread I have a problem with, but its REALLY hypocritical of you to throw out the 'imagining lesbians everywhere you look' card and jump on people for 'harping' on that, when anyone could EASILY point out a dozen or so posts where you've pulled the same exact stuff with the Iceman crap and deliberately done it to push ProZZor X and other posters' buttons.
Who's analyzing what now? I was asking a question and then someone asked about that.

And Iceman being seen as gay is fairly established. Why do you think it has a FAQ entry and has been addressed by various writers including Mike Carey. Not to mention even becomes pop culture refrences.

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 06:51 PM

I can't tell whose on who's side lolz

I'm pretty sure it ceased to matter back on pg 1.:eek:

Vegetarian Goat

03-22-2007, 06:54 PM

Lesbians For Everyone!!!!!

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:54 PM

I'm pretty sure it ceased to matter back on pg 1.:eek:
Well, in the grand scheme of things none of it matters. :)

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 06:55 PM

WHY are we paying attention to the obvious troll??

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:55 PM

Lesbians For Everyone!!!!!
Can I trade mine in for two gay men instead? Please and thank you. :)

Kalen O.

03-22-2007, 06:56 PM

Who's analyzing what now? I was asking a question and then someone asked about that.

And Iceman being seen as gay is fairly established. Why do you think it has a FAQ entry and has been addressed by various writers including Mike Carey. Not to mention even becomes pop culture refrences.

Umm ok.

Most gay males do on some level. As I said, it's due to the reaction of straight males. How they find two lesbians as hot and two gay men as disgusting. So there's a split in the gay culture, where a lot of gay men are very vocal in their dislike or outright hatred of lesbians. Shame really.

Between that and your previous posts? You REALLY don't think you're crossing the line between debating the 'subject' and 'analyzing posters' motivations?' Whatever.

And wow, WAY to miss the point. Last time I checked, Iceman's never officially been established as gay in canon.....so if and until he is, its still just YOUR opinion! If you can harp on it whenever you want and derail threads left and right with it when other posters just want to talk about his current CANON relationship with Mystique....then how the HELL do you justify getting up in arms when other posters read what they consider gratuitous lesbian undertones into comics canon and doing the same thing you're guilty of? Whatever, I don't care how you justify that, as clearly, you'll find a way. I'm done here.

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:57 PM

WHY are we paying attention to the obvious troll??
Who's trolling? I'm trying to have a discussion. What are you trying to do?

Beast

03-22-2007, 06:58 PM

And wow, WAY to miss the point. Last time I checked, Iceman's never officially been established as gay in canon.....so if and until he is, its still just YOUR opinion! If you can harp on it whenever you want and derail threads left and right with it when other posters just want to talk about his current CANON relationship with Mystique....then how the HELL do you justify getting up in arms when other posters read what they consider gratuitous lesbian undertones into comics canon and doing the same thing you're guilty of? Whatever, I don't care how you justify that, as clearly, you'll find a way. I'm done here.
Yes, much like everyone else being a lesbian is opinion. But I don't mention Bobby being gay in every thread. It's amusing on occassion to refrence it off hand, but it's certainly not some sort of cause I'm championing. And the whole Bobby could be gay (actually bisexual) thing still comes to play when you're dealing with Mystique who is a shapeshifter and can offer Bobby the best of both worlds. Much as Mike Carey was teasing with.

And finally, who said I actually do? ;)

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 06:58 PM

And I'm STILL not understanding what gay men in society's thoughts on lesbians have anything to do with anything. Like...this is about comic books. We're getting far too personal here, and attempting low blows. Keep it about comic books.

Jesse Newcomb

03-22-2007, 06:59 PM

She is straight. And some of us find her pretty.

Then you must have really loved this movie.....

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00005Y6YE.01._SS500_SCLZZZZZZZ_V1056706818_.jpg

:p

Novaya Havoc

03-22-2007, 07:00 PM

Lololol Jesse! Ha!!!

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 07:00 PM

Beast

03-22-2007, 07:06 PM

So? Who wants to see more spins on World History in future dimensions which the eXiles might visit? Like inteligent, what if <insert nation> won <insert war> type dimensions, and seeing how that might make the heroes we know very different. That's the bit of the interview that interesyted me.

A bit like 1602, y'know?
Most definatly. Those are always fun takes. Like the recent What If? that had the Fantastic Four made up of Marvel's Russian characters in the U.S.S.R. I didn't get it, but just the very idea is fun to play with. :)

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 07:12 PM

Most definatly. Those are always fun takes. Like the recent What If? that had the Fantastic Four made up of Marvel's Russian characters in the U.S.S.R. I didn't get it, but just the very idea is fun to play with. :)

Really? I missed that one. Sounds like a good idea though. I think Marvel's key strength is how it is so closely set to the real world. That's what makes those kind of stories possible.

I think eXiles, as a Marvel Universe/s encompassing title would be greatly benefited by playing to those strengths, also.

Beast

03-22-2007, 07:16 PM

Really? I missed that one. Sounds like a good idea though. I think Marvel's key strength is how it is so closely set to the real world. That's what makes those kind of stories possible.

I think eXiles, as a Marvel Universe/s encompassing title would be greatly benefited by playing to those strengths, also.
I'm just glad to see some good stuff in Exiles with the Fantastic Four. They've not been played with in Exiles all that much. The last time was early on in Bedard's run just after Beak became a member. And they were just the same old Fantastic Four. Let's see Dr. Doom in the Mr. Fantastic role, Misty Knight in the Sue Storm role, Bobby Drake in the Human Torch role, and I dunno.... Beast in the Thing role. Now that's a fun shake up. :)

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 07:18 PM

Have the eXiles ever visited the Mutant X dimension? I really liked the characters from that. Actually pretty well thought through. well for the first year at least...

tetragene

03-22-2007, 07:19 PM

edit: posted in the wrong thread...blame it on using a different computer ;)

blinkinrogue

03-22-2007, 07:21 PM

i dunno, so far im not really enjoying cc's run, but hopefully it'll pick up....

Beast

03-22-2007, 07:22 PM

Have the eXiles ever visited the Mutant X dimension? I really liked the characters from that. Actually pretty well thought through. well for the first year at least...
Sadly no. I loved the Mutant X-verse, and hoped it would appear. They were involved in the end of the Mutant X storyline though. Bah, I'm futzing on the exact storyline. The Exiles came to Earth 616 with order to stop the evil Mutant X Havok who was running around in the Earth 616 Havok's body. Because he was a threat due to being a nexus of the multiverse or some nonsense. The Timebroker actually comes off as a very malevolent character in this appearance. And if I recall, this was before the Hyperion storyline.

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 07:22 PM

OMG...I've never seen so many attempts at de-railing a freakin' thread. Most of the past couple of pages haven't had much to do with Nocturne...so how about we get back to the subject of this entire thread... Nocturne.

Er... riiiiight. Have you posted in the wrong thread, here?

Beast

03-22-2007, 07:24 PM

OMG...I've never seen so many attempts at de-railing a freakin' thread. Most of the past couple of pages haven't had much to do with Nocturne...so how about we get back to the subject of this entire thread...Nocturne.

So...going back to Exiles? Should we have high hopes, or be very very afraid?
This isn't the Nocturne thread.

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 07:25 PM

Sadly no. I loved the Mutant X-verse, and hoped it would appear. They were involved in the end of the Mutant X storyline though. Bah, I'm futzing on the exact storyline. The Exiles came to Earth 616 with order to stop the evil Mutant X Havok who was running around in the Earth 616 Havok's body. Because he was a threat due to being a nexus of the multiverse or some nonsense. The Timebroker actually comes off as a very malevolent character in this appearance. And if I recall, this was before the Hyperion storyline.

I always wondered who the Timebroker really was... I was saddened to have him retconned as a computer program. I mean how did those bug even program him?

Beast

03-22-2007, 07:29 PM

I always wondered who the Timebroker really was... I was saddened to have him retconned as a computer program. I mean how did those bug even program him?
Well, they are scientists. But yeah, the bugs reveal was meh.

I really hope that Heather starts using the interface to play "Al" more often.

Faded

03-22-2007, 07:34 PM

Apocalypse Now Then!

03-22-2007, 07:39 PM

lol, you guys are funny.

I know I mentioned wanting to know who switches teams, but I really hope we don't have yet more alternate reality characters in area code 616 (as much as I love Blink and Nocturne).

I hope that's not the case, too. well, I suppose Longshot might come back - and he's not technically 616, being from the Mojo dimension - but I think in all honesty they'll steer away from any more imports for a while.

Pach!

03-22-2007, 07:40 PM

Well, they are scientists. But yeah, the bugs reveal was meh.

I really hope that Heather starts using the interface to play "Al" more often.

Hey Beast, I know this is completely unrelated... but is your avatar supposed to be Beast the x-men or just a plain old gorilla?

Beast

03-22-2007, 07:41 PM

Hey Beast, I know this is completely unrelated... but is your avatar supposed to be Beast the x-men or just a plain old gorilla?
Dude. It's Gorilla Man from Jeff Parker's Agents of Atlas. Hit the linkie in my Sig. ;)

Pach!

03-22-2007, 07:45 PM

Dude. It's Gorilla Man from Jeff Parker's Agents of Atlas. Hit the linkie in my Sig. ;)

Looks fun! I'll see if I can find it.

ImpulseUCF

03-22-2007, 07:57 PM

I just don't see blatant lesbianism in what Claremont writes. Maybe a bit of subtle implied lesbianism by future versions of Kitty Pryde and Rachel Summers in Excalibur. But subtle is the word. I don't see it in any of his more recent stuff.Errm..did you read The Arena arc of X-treme X-Men? Holy lesbianic, S&M bondage, Batman! Short of them all shagging on panel, there's not much more they could have done there!

ImpulseUCF

03-22-2007, 07:58 PM

WAnd Iceman being seen as gay is fairly established. Why do you think it has a FAQ entry and has been addressed by various writers including Mike Carey. Not to mention even becomes pop culture refrences.LOL, Please. It's not canon or continuity, but is just fans grasping at straws. He's shown being attracted to women, pursuing them etc. There's nothing to suggest he's gay. As for pop culture...Family Guy was making fun of the nerds who perpetuate that crap :P.

Beast

03-22-2007, 08:02 PM

LOL, Please. It's not canon or continuity, but is just fans grasping at straws. He's shown being attracted to women, pursuing them etc. There's nothing to suggest he's gay. As for pop culture...Family Guy was making fun of the nerds who perpetuate that crap :P.
You realize that Family Guy is written by those so-called nerds. Heh. :p

ImpulseUCF

03-22-2007, 08:02 PM

I'm just glad to see some good stuff in Exiles with the Fantastic Four. They've not been played with in Exiles all that much. The last time was early on in Bedard's run just after Beak became a member. And they were just the same old Fantastic Four. Let's see Dr. Doom in the Mr. Fantastic role, Misty Knight in the Sue Storm role, Bobby Drake in the Human Torch role, and I dunno.... Beast in the Thing role. Now that's a fun shake up. :)Dude, did you read Exiles? The FF or some of its members wer in nearly every other arc. Winnick used them or their members countless times and in his exit arc. Bedard used them in his intro arc. I can't recall anymore of the top of my head, but at least 3 or 4 appearances, which is pretty good for a book that isn't FF.

ImpulseUCF

03-22-2007, 08:05 PM

You realize that Family Guy is written by those so-called nerds. Heh. :pOh, of course, written for nerds and by nerds. That doesn't mean they're not nerds :). Like us. Who argue to the death about comic books. ;)

I'm happy with who I am. :D

Beast

03-22-2007, 08:09 PM

Dude, did you read Exiles? The FF or some of its members wer in nearly every other arc. Winnick used them or their members countless times and in his exit arc. Bedard used them in his intro arc. I can't recall anymore of the top of my head, but at least 3 or 4 appearances, which is pretty good for a book that isn't FF.
Read... the... post... more... closely. I said they haven't been played with all that much. And mentioned the last time they were used. Again, they weren't really played with all that much.

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 08:11 PM

Read... the... post... more... closely. I said they haven't been played with all that much. And mentioned the last time they were used. Again, they weren't really played with all that much.

Yeah, and considering this book isn't a fantastic four book, and yet we can think of 3-4+ instances in which the F4 were used in the book, I think your "all that much" is a bit of an understatement. The F4 is a small part of the marvel U, and the Exiles take on the ENTIRE universe (or did). They've been used quite a few times, if not the full team then the characters for this or that.

Beast

03-22-2007, 08:20 PM

Yeah, and considering this book isn't a fantastic four book, and yet we can think of 3-4+ instances in which the F4 were used in the book, I think your "all that much" is a bit of an understatement. The F4 is a small part of the marvel U, and the Exiles take on the ENTIRE universe (or did). They've been used quite a few times, if not the full team then the characters for this or that.
No, it's Exiles. You know, the book that visits alternate realities. That encounters alternate versions of the Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men, etc. What is your point? Why should the FF when they appear always be pretty much the same? Or the Avengers? Shake the rosters and the trees a bit. That's what's fun.

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 08:24 PM

No, it's Exiles. You know, the book that visits alternate realities. That encounters alternate versions of the Avengers, Fantastic Four, X-Men, etc. What is your point? Why should the FF when they appear always be pretty much the same? Or the Avengers? Shake the rosters and the trees a bit. That's what's fun.

Uhh....did you read what I said?? Shaking things up is the point. I was just pointing out that, in fact, the f4 have shown up in many incarnations, or their characters have shown up a few times in Exiles. I can think of 4 instances in Winick's run alone, and there was more in Bedard. Hence your "not all that much" was an understatement. It has nothing to do with "shaking things up" and every time they had appeared before it had been "shaken up".

Arilou

03-22-2007, 08:41 PM

Roma cares for the multiverse. I don't think she needed to be involved during The Infinity Gauntlet since it was only one reality. Thanos basically subplanted Eternity. Thanos was not breaking any universal laws.

Except that the Living Tribunal eventually got involved. (To strip the Gauntlet from Adam Warlock) Eternity actually appealed to him first, but the Tribunal basically said "No, Thanos is beneath my notice."

That's one of the major things that bugs me with Roma: She seems mainly to do the same job as the Tribunal, while being much less awesome.

Beast

03-22-2007, 08:44 PM

Uhh....did you read what I said?? Shaking things up is the point. I was just pointing out that, in fact, the f4 have shown up in many incarnations, or their characters have shown up a few times in Exiles. I can think of 4 instances in Winick's run alone, and there was more in Bedard. Hence your "not all that much" was an understatement. It has nothing to do with "shaking things up" and every time they had appeared before it had been "shaken up".
A few times in nearly 100 issues, where they were typically always the same team members isn't shaking them up or playing with them. And like I said, they haven't appeared all that often as a whole.

Nachturne

03-22-2007, 08:54 PM

A few times in nearly 100 issues, where they were typically always the same team members isn't shaking them up or playing with them. And like I said, they haven't appeared all that often as a whole.

......how about Sue Storm as Black Bolts wife? David Richards?? Reed was completely seperate from the F4 in the skrull world. Dude, I know you're looking at your stack of Exiles trades...READ THEM. Jesus.

And this is JUST the F4. There's plenty OTHER parts of the Marvel U the Exiles have dealt with. It's 100 issues. Do we need 20 about the f4?? No. But we have over ten. I think thats pretty good.

rondre sleazde

03-22-2007, 09:47 PM

CC please bring back Holocaust and Magnus. They both were on the book for 2 issues apeice. Bring them back.

ImpulseUCF

03-22-2007, 10:56 PM

A few times in nearly 100 issues [snip] isn't shaking them up or playing with them. Heh. Heheh.

Sorry....

The FF have had a pretty strong presence in Exiles considering it started off so X-centric. How many versions of Reed Richards did we run into? And still, your argument about different takes on the FF, or reintroducing other characters or concepts with slight twists is pretty much "Character went left instead of right" to a T, which is exactly what we were not promised.

We shall see.

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 02:30 AM

dipset, i think the problem with magnus is he is too powerful a character to write, so i doubt they'll bring him back anytime soon... about holocaust, he was powerful too (but WTF? practically ***-slapped by hyperion easily)...

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 05:39 AM

Magnus served his purpose. He got the team credit cards ;)

Pro

03-23-2007, 06:22 AM

READ THEM. Jesus.

He may like to preach but i don't think Beast is the messiah ..

Beast

03-23-2007, 07:45 AM

Magnus served his purpose. He got the team credit cards ;)
Yeah, that always bugged me. As if credit cards would work on an alternate reality.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 07:58 AM

Yeah, that always bugged me. As if credit cards would work on an alternate reality.

They did on that particular world. And they do on any other worlds that accept credit cards. Obvs they're not gonna charge anything on Skrull world.

drwho

03-23-2007, 07:58 AM

I wish we could all find a reality where claremont can still write good comics.

Beast

03-23-2007, 08:07 AM

They did on that particular world. And they do on any other worlds that accept credit cards. Obvs they're not gonna charge anything on Skrull world.
You do realize how credit cards work though, right. Hence why it makes no sense.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 08:12 AM

You do realize how credit cards work though, right. Hence why it makes no sense.

Dude, it's comics. If I can suspend my belief enough to accept alternate realities, blue and pink people, shapeshifters, etc, I can suspend it enough to deal with credit cards. Sheesh.

drwho

03-23-2007, 08:14 AM

Anyone have any idea who will be leaving the team? Also in the interview Chris mentions Gwen Stacy. Why would Spidey 2099 give a damn about Gwen Stacy?

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 08:17 AM

Anyone have any idea who will be leaving the team? Also in the story the interview Chris mentions Gwen Stacy. Why would Spidey 2099 give a damn about Gwen Stacy?

No clue. He's not Peter Parker, so that's a really good question. Huuuuuuhhhhh??? Methinks CC has some reading to do.

And I bet Heather or Miguel will be off. I'd hate to see either leave, but I think it'd be the way.

Brian M.

03-23-2007, 08:21 AM

Anyone have any idea who will be leaving the team? Also in the interview Chris mentions Gwen Stacy. Why would Spidey 2099 give a damn about Gwen Stacy?

B/c Claremont can kill her again. And again. And again.

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 08:22 AM

GET RID OF SABES already CC, pls leave blink in the title, and maybe spare heather and morph, the rest you can do whatever you want :D

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 08:22 AM

Anyone have any idea who will be leaving the team? Also in the interview Chris mentions Gwen Stacy. Why would Spidey 2099 give a damn about Gwen Stacy?

Maybe not Miguel, no. But Gwen would certainly recognise somebody parading round in a Spider-man costume. She means nothing to him, but Gwen might be a lot more enamoured with Spider-man, regardless of who is under the costume, by association. and if the two got to know each other... Who can say?

That's the point. Proper what if...? which plays with possible character relationships in a different setting. And not just sticking another character as a horseman of apocalypse or a herald of Galactus concept. Again.:rolleyes:

Beast

03-23-2007, 08:25 AM

Anyone have any idea who will be leaving the team? Also in the interview Chris mentions Gwen Stacy. Why would Spidey 2099 give a damn about Gwen Stacy?
I think it's more from Gwen's point of view. Ya know...

Gwen: "Spider-Man!"
Spidey: "Yes?"
Gwen: "Love the new costume."
Spidey: "Errr..."

Or the Green Goblin's going to be involved, throwing Gwen off a bridge.

And no, I don't think he has reading to do. Check out the latest issue, he's aware of Miguel's name and his powers. Hydra-Spidey 2099 uses the finger talons to attack Psylocke.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 08:25 AM

Maybe not Miguel, no. But Gwen would certainly recognise somebody parading round in a Spider-man costume. She means nothing to him, but Gwen might be a lot more enamoured with Spider-man, regardless of who is under the costume, by association. and if the two got to know each other... Who can say?

That's the point. Proper what if...? which plays with possible character relationships in a different setting. And not just sticking another character as a horseman of apocalypse or a herald of Galactus concept. Again.:rolleyes:

Yeah, but who's to say an AU Gwen Stacy has anything to do with Spiderman? And Miguel's costume is very very different to the Spiderman Gwen would know. It's still a bit "huuuuh?"

Miguel has nothing to do with Peter Parker in the least, and nothing to do with his history. So adding Peter Parker elements only makes it seem like CC doesn't really get Miguel.

drwho

03-23-2007, 08:27 AM

Yeah, but who's to say an AU Gwen Stacy has anything to do with Spiderman? And Miguel's costume is very very different to the Spiderman Gwen would know. It's still a bit "huuuuh?"

Miguel has nothing to do with Peter Parker in the least, and nothing to do with his history. So adding Peter Parker elements only makes it seem like CC doesn't really get Miguel.

Well said. Plus I could have sworn we have already seen Reed as doom in Universe X and in marvel 616 when Reed was trapped in the Doom armor. We need something new here. Something out of the box.

Beast

03-23-2007, 08:28 AM

Dude, it's comics. If I can suspend my belief enough to accept alternate realities, blue and pink people, shapeshifters, etc, I can suspend it enough to deal with credit cards. Sheesh.
There's a difference between that and PIS like credit cards working in another reality.

Beast

03-23-2007, 08:29 AM

Miguel has nothing to do with Peter Parker in the least, and nothing to do with his history. So adding Peter Parker elements only makes it seem like CC doesn't really get Miguel.
Have you actually read anything with Spider-Man 2099?

Because there is a connection. Whether you want to ignore it or not.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 08:34 AM

Yeah, but who's to say an AU Gwen Stacy has anything to do with Spiderman? And Miguel's costume is very very different to the Spiderman Gwen would know. It's still a bit "huuuuh?"

Yeah, but think about it. a) How do you know WHAT the Spider-costume looked like in that dimension? and b) If you see a guy jumping from building to building spinning and swinging off webs I think you too might assume that it's Spider-man.

For somebody who's an avid eXiles fab you sure don't seem to be getting the AU concept, too good. Al alternste universe usually focusses on the same set of events or decisions happening in a slightly different way to that which we know. Instead of taking one action, the opposite action was taken.

A universe where Gwen Stacy never met Spider-man would be pretty dull, and not of a lot of interest either...

Miguel has nothing to do with Peter Parker in the least, and nothing to do with his history. So adding Peter Parker elements only makes it seem like CC doesn't really get Miguel.

Apart from the fact that Miguel took on the Spider-man identity in his future time period. In a modern day alternate earth if Miguel were to swing into sight of a Gwen Stacy, who was still alive, she's hardly going to go 'I have no idea who or what that was. It can't be spider-man because he's not wearing red and blue'.

Seriously stop trying to find any old stick to beat Chris Claremont with. It's really old now.

Arilou

03-23-2007, 08:35 AM

Wasn't Miguel inspired by Spidey somehow?

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 08:37 AM

Seriously stop trying to find any old stick to beat Chris Claremont with. It's really old now.

A: Don't attack my "Exile fanness".

B: Dude....what is the problem with picking out inconsitensies in what this man is doing? If people are saying "huh? That doesnt make sense" well....then maybe it doesn't. This blind Claremont worship is tiresome. The guy can screw up, and we can question his stuff. He's not flipping god.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 08:44 AM

Dude....what is the problem with picking out inconsitensies in what this man is doing? If people are saying "huh? That doesnt make sense" well....then maybe it doesn't. This blind Claremont worship is tiresome. The guy can screw up, and we can question his stuff. He's not flipping god.

No he's not. But when you find another little so called 'inconsistency' and another two posters point out that actually it does make sense, you won't accept that other people are entitled to that viewpoint.

You'll just try and find another. And if that is disproved you'll try again. Seriously, if that isn't creator bashing for the pure damned sake of it, what is?

That is how you are currently coming across to people.

I'm not a die hard Claremont fan, but here in this instance I'm not seeing anything truly illogical - other than bowing to fan pressure and putting Nocturne back on eXiles. Especially as she was one of his first picks for New Excalibur. I think THAT is a shame.

Beast

03-23-2007, 08:46 AM

A: Don't attack my "Exile fanness".

B: Dude....what is the problem with picking out inconsitensies in what this man is doing? If people are saying "huh? That doesnt make sense" well....then maybe it doesn't. This blind Claremont worship is tiresome. The guy can screw up, and we can question his stuff. He's not flipping god.
This from the person claiming credit cards from an alternate reality would work? Heh. Funny.

Pach!

03-23-2007, 08:53 AM

Wait so i haven't read Spider-man 2099... how are peter parker and miguel oHara related. ( or gwen)...I think someone said that you obviously haven't read spider-man 2099

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 08:56 AM

No he's not. But when you find another little so called 'inconsistency' and another two posters point out that actually it does make sense, you won't accept that other people are entitled to that viewpoint.

You'll just try and find another. And if that is disproved you'll try again. Seriously, if that isn't creator bashing for the pure damned sake of it, what is?

That is how you are currently coming across to people.

I'm not a die hard Claremont fan, but here in this instance I'm not seeing anything truly illogical - other than bowing to fan pressure and putting Nocturne back on eXiles. Especially as she was one of his first picks for New Excalibur. I think THAT is a shame.

LOL....pot meet kettle! (in your own words)

The thing is that nothing has been disproven, and nothing will be proven/disproven until the book's written. And you aren't making points, you guys are making up hypothetical situations where it could make sense. That the difference.

And Claremont has stated time and time again that he chose Nocturne because he couldnt have Nightcrawler and wanted to give NEX that Excalibur feel. And bowing to fan pressure? Don't blame the fans, blame him. Because a writer should never compromise their work because of stupid fanboys.

This isn't and has never been creator bashing. I have a problem with Claremont's writing and have never tried to make it anything else. And I'm obviously not alone, if you check these threads. Stop acting like I'm this evil spiteful bitch out to ruin everyones fun. I'm allowed to express myself the same as any, so get used to it.

This from the person claiming credit cards from an alternate reality would work? Heh. Funny.

Oh God, you are a card. I'm not claiming they'd work, I'm claiming they don't matter. I don't care about something as tiny as that when the rest is kick ass.

drwho

03-23-2007, 08:57 AM

The way I recall it is Miguel gets infused with Spider DNA and he learns about the original Spiderman. Not a very big connection if you ask me. The costume Miguel wears is actually a costume I think for the Day of the Dead or something.

Beast

03-23-2007, 08:58 AM

Oh God, you are a card. I'm not claiming they'd work, I'm claiming they don't matter. I don't care about something as tiny as that when the rest is kick ass.
So what you're saying is, you nitpick stuff from a writer you don't like.

But ignore stuff that could be nitpicked from a writer you do like.

Glad we're finally all on the same page here. Took long enough. :)

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 09:00 AM

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 09:01 AM

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:02 AM

Claremont made a pot-shot at Carey's X-Men in the latest Exiles, though. How about that?

There's a lot to criticize Claremont for, and Nachturne has every right to do so if he's hijacking her once-favorite title. I do the same for Dazzler. And you'd be doing the same if I ever got the chance to write Captain Britain.
It wasn't a pot shot, it's called an ironic joke. Read it again...

drwho

03-23-2007, 09:02 AM

Has Peter David ever written exiles? I'd like to see him give this book a try.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 09:03 AM

So what you're saying is, you nitpick stuff from a writer you don't like.

But ignore stuff that could be nitpicked from a writer you do like.

Glad we're finally all on the same page here. Took long enough. :)

Yeah, ok sweetheart. :rolleyes:

Has Peter David ever written exiles? I'd like to see him give this book a try.

That'd be amazing. I'd even like to see Gail Simone on it. Is she on exclusive at DC?? They seem to snatch up all the good ones...

Pach!

03-23-2007, 09:03 AM

So what you're saying is, you nitpick stuff from a writer you don't like.

But ignore stuff that could be nitpicked from a writer you do like.

Glad we're finally all on the same page here. Took long enough. :)

So you're pissed about credit cards, but you believe that a machine that enhances telepathy can detect genes? Because I don't hear much complaining about them.

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 09:05 AM

It wasn't a pot shot, it's called an ironic joke. Read it again...

Ironic in the "CHRIST, LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO THE X-MEN!" through the words of Psylocke.

Ergo, Claremont totally thinks he's Psylocke.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 09:07 AM

There's a lot to criticize Claremont for, and Nachturne has every right to do so if he's hijacking her once-favorite title. I do the same for Dazzler. And you'd be doing the same if I ever got the chance to write Captain Britain.

I would like to believe that the diffrence would be that I would at least give a little more of a coherent argument to my points against, than trying to find points that aren't reallythere in the first place.

And this isn't even relevent to this thread, right now. Sure there are things to critisize Claremont for. Cecilia Reyes on 'Rave!', Father Kurt Wagner, or Dino-Rachel. But I'm not seeing anything anywhere near as sucky as that in this interview. 99% of what the guy is suggesting about what he feels the potential for eXiles is majes sense, to me.

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 09:09 AM

And this isn't even relevent to this thread, right now. Sure there are things to critisize Claremont for. Cecilia Reyes on 'Rave!', Father Kurt Wagner, or Dino-Rachel. But I'm not seeing anything anywhere near as sucky as that in this interview. 99% of what the guy is suggesting about what he feels the potential for eXiles is majes sense, to me.

You don't find races of Dinosaurs, Reed-as-Doom-Doom-as-Reed, potential Shi'ar tie ins, bug people, or "Mystic" sucky?

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:09 AM

So you're pissed about credit cards, but you believe that a machine that enhances telepathy can detect genes? Because I don't hear much complaining about them.
You do realize what a huge difference that is, right?

Good lord, it's as if you people don't understand how a credit card works.

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 09:11 AM

You do realize what a huge difference that is, right?

Good lord, it's as if you people don't understand how a credit card works.

D-Pod? Now let's get ruuuull nitpicky about that.

I mean, really. D-Pod. Or Kitty disrupting machinery because she's phasing. Or a cheap ruby QUARTZ stone holding back laser eyebeams.

It's not the little things that bug. The big things do. Like, you know, Great Britain existing in the MU.

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:11 AM

Ironic in the "CHRIST, LOOK WHAT THEY'VE DONE TO THE X-MEN!" through the words of Psylocke.

Ergo, Claremont totally thinks he's Psylocke.
Like I said, read it again. It's called an ironic joke. Ya know...

"The way my day is going, the X-Men probably replaced me with Sabretooth."

Ya know, like in the same context as .... "My day cannot get much worse."

And then it does. Sheesh. Now your seeing digs in the shadows.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 09:12 AM

You do realize what a huge difference that is, right?

Good lord, it's as if you people don't understand how a credit card works.

Dude, it's not that we don't get it. It's that it doesn't matter. Like in a world with people with crazy powers, giant robots, aliens and super suits, we're getting bent out of shape over credit cards??? Get over it!

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:14 AM

D-Pod? Now let's get ruuuull nitpicky about that.

I mean, really. D-Pod. Or Kitty disrupting machinery because she's phasing. Or a cheap ruby QUARTZ stone holding back laser eyebeams.

It's not the little things that bug. The big things do. Like, you know, Great Britain existing in the MU.
I-Pods exist. As for the others, those are quasi-scientific deals.

We're talking about credit cards from an alternate reality. That doesn't make sense of work in any way shape or form. It would be no different then trying to use a cancelled credit card. It would read as invalid.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 09:15 AM

You don't find races of Dinosaurs, Reed-as-Doom-Doom-as-Reed, potential Shi'ar tie ins, bug people, or "Mystic" sucky?

The dinosaurs - possibly. But if it's like Dino-Excalibur, it was an offbeat tongue in cheek issue. I could live with that.

Reed-as-doom-doom-as-reed - Good concept. Along their continuity it could have happened. It's the paths they choose that makes them who they are. Good solid sci-fi concept. Perfect for comics.

Bug people - see Dinosaurs. Really depends on the context.

Shi'ar - I see no problem here. Again, as long as it plays with different pasths in the Shi-ar timeline as we know it in 616.

And the Mystique as a man concept actually interests me. It's playing with a character's life choices. And it;s very sci-fi. I like it.

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:16 AM

Dude, it's not that we don't get it. It's that it doesn't matter. Like in a world with people with crazy powers, giant robots, aliens and super suits, we're getting bent out of shape over credit cards??? Get over it!
Because those all have actual explainations. Quasi-science or otherwise.

Where as the alternate reality credit cards is a major PIS.

drwho

03-23-2007, 09:16 AM

DDM

03-23-2007, 09:17 AM

Except that the Living Tribunal eventually got involved. (To strip the Gauntlet from Adam Warlock) Eternity actually appealed to him first, but the Tribunal basically said "No, Thanos is beneath my notice."

That's one of the major things that bugs me with Roma: She seems mainly to do the same job as the Tribunal, while being much less awesome.

The Living Tribunal works specifically to keep the magical balance of the multiverse. Roma has a slightly different role, but she also keeps a balance of the multiverse so it works properly. Basically, the Living Tribunal is the ultimate judge. They may work in concert with one another.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 09:18 AM

Because those all have actual explainations. Quasi-science or otherwise.

Where as the alternate reality credit cards is a major PIS.

Yeah..ok. Sure. ZOMG WINICK BASHERZ! :rolleyes:

Pach!

03-23-2007, 09:19 AM

You do realize what a huge difference that is, right?

Good lord, it's as if you people don't understand how a credit card works.

Why don't you take the time to explain to me how it's different.

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:19 AM

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 09:19 AM

Like I said, read it again. It's called an ironic joke. Ya know...

"The way my day is going, the X-Men probably replaced me with Sabretooth."

Ya know, like in the same context as .... "My day cannot get much worse."

And then it does. Sheesh. Now your seeing digs in the shadows.

It's called a persona, Beast. Claremont is speaking through Psylocke.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-23-2007, 09:20 AM

The Living Tribunal works specifically to keep the magical balance of the multiverse. Roma has a slightly different role, but she also keeps a balance of the multiverse so it works properly. Basically, the Living Tribunal is the ultimate judge. They may work in concert with one another.

Yeah, that was how I always saw it too. That is afterall what a Tribunal does. I certainly wouldn't mind seeing the Living Tribunal in eXiles.

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 09:20 AM

I-Pods exist. As for the others, those are quasi-scientific deals.

We're talking about credit cards from an alternate reality. That doesn't make sense of work in any way shape or form. It would be no different then trying to use a cancelled credit card. It would read as invalid.

Maybe from this universe, credit cards can bypass any and all technologies the credit card has encountered, and come out "APPROVED" even with no bank account on record!

</Claremont Zombie-Style Excuse>

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:29 AM

Why don't you take the time to explain to me how it's different.
It really shouldn't be that hard to understand... if you actually know how credit cards work.

You see, when you swipe them through the reader the lil magnetic strip is read by the EDC software which then dials out via a stored telephone number to what is called an acquirer. This is an organization that collects credit authorization requests from various merchants. It checks to ensure the account exists, is active, not over the limit, etc, before approving or denying the transaction.

Magnus wouldn't have a credit card account in another reality. And the card wouldn't go through due to being invalid. It's no different then trying to use a credit card that's over the limit, cancelled, or not activated. Hence why it doesn't make a damn lick of sense and has bugged me from the start. They should have just stolen the clothes, etc. At least it wouldn't be a huge PIS moment. Considering they already broke into the stores anyway.

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 09:31 AM

did you say magnetic strip??? and this is magnus right? maybe he just used magnetism on the machines and stuff.... these guys are powerful and resourceful, i dont think its too far out that they can manipulate credit cards and/or swipers to work for them.... just my opinion :D

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:31 AM

It's called a persona, Beast. Claremont is speaking through Psylocke.
Considering Mike Carey wasn't the one who replaced him, and Sabretooth wasn't the member who replaced her, that's a pretty big stretch. It's called an ironic joke. Like I said, it's no different then someone saying ... "There's no way my day could get any worse." and then it does. Irony. :p

Beast

03-23-2007, 09:32 AM

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 09:33 AM

Magnus wouldn't have a credit card account in another reality. And the card wouldn't go through due to being invalid. It's no different then trying to use a credit card that's over the limit, cancelled, or not activated. Hence why it doesn't make a damn lick of sense and has bugged me from the start. They should have just stolen the clothes, etc. At least it wouldn't be a huge PIS moment. Considering they already broke into the stores anyway.

Or.....Magnus' magnetic power overrode what the machine read and they read as valid anyhow. Considering all the insane and crazy impossible things that exist in this universe, a credit card that will always read as valid due to the manipulation of a mutant with magnetic powers is hardly inconceivable. I mean, it's far more possible than reality hopping.

LOLZ he doesn't need someones information! These are machines and machines can always be over ridden.

Jesus, are we really arguing over credit cards? Let's argue about the Shi'ar. At least credit cards are real.

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 09:34 AM

why not??? all im saying its not too difficult for ppl like them with power and resources at their disposal to do stuff like that....:)

Pach!

03-23-2007, 09:35 AM

It really shouldn't be that hard to understand... if you actually know how credit cards work.

You see, when you swipe them through the reader the lil magnetic strip is read by the EDC software which then dials out via a stored telephone number to what is called an acquirer. This is an organization that collects credit authorization requests from various merchants. It checks to ensure the account exists, is active, not over the limit, etc, before approving or denying the transaction.

Magnus wouldn't have a credit card account in another reality. And the card wouldn't go through due to being invalid. It's no different then trying to use a credit card that's over the limit, cancelled, or not activated. Hence why it doesn't make a damn lick of sense and has bugged me from the start. They should have just stolen the clothes, etc. At least it wouldn't be a huge PIS moment. Considering they already broke into the stores anyway.

First of all as someone beat me to say... Magnetic strip.. the magnetic strip contains all the information.. if you manipulate it you can make the machine believe there is an account.

And in any case, I asked how is it different.... How is it that genes can be detected with telepathy? They can't.

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 09:36 AM

Or.....Magnus' magnetic power overrode what the machine read and they read as valid anyhow. Considering all the insane and crazy impossible things that exist in this universe, a credit card that will always read as valid due to the manipulation of a mutant with magnetic powers is hardly inconceivable. I mean, it's far more possible than reality hopping.

this was what i was saying, all im saying is with their powers and abilities, manipulating credit cards, obtaining information, etc. ect. wouldnt be too hard to do compared to like rescuing hundreds of heroes who were imprisoned....

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 09:37 AM

First of all as someone beat me to say... Magnetic strip.. the magnetic strip contains all the information.. if you manipulate it you can make the machine believe there is an account.

And in any case, I asked how is it different.... How is it that genes can be detected with telepathy? They can't.

see? im glad someone agrees with me, you did say magnetic strip after all, and this is magnus, not too difficult a task i presume for someone like him to do....

Pach!

03-23-2007, 09:39 AM

Considering Mike Carey wasn't the one who replaced him, and Sabretooth wasn't the member who replaced her, that's a pretty big stretch. It's called an ironic joke. Like I said, it's no different then someone saying ... "There's no way my day could get any worse." and then it does. Irony. :p

Until Claremont says something admitting or denying it, I will keep on thinking it was a cheap shot against Carey. It was like him sending the message to his fans " This is so wrong in the X universe I created!!!!!" But that's my opinion, you can read it however you want.

drwho

03-23-2007, 09:40 AM

There is always the possibility that those same account numbers existed in the alternate reality. :D

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 09:42 AM

There is always the possibility that those same account numbers existed in the alternate reality. :D

yep, and there are like gazillions of realities right? dont see why that wouldnt happen too... hehehe :)

ImpulseUCF

03-23-2007, 09:45 AM

Seriously, if that isn't creator bashing for the pure damned sake of it, what is?Insults to a creator's person, demeaning the individual, and projecting criticism of his work onto the creator.

Criticizing inconsistencies, no matter how big or small you think they are, is still relevant criticism. Criticism is not inherently bad. To criticize is to critique. Evaluate. Analyze. Point out good and bad.
That is how you are currently coming across to people.You're certainly trying hard to paint her that way. She's tried to drop the argument at least 3 or 4 times, and you guys keep bring it back up and accuse her of bashing for what is clearly criticism of the work with supported examples. Especially as she was one of his first picks for New Excalibur. I think THAT is a shame.He's outright stated he chose her because he wanted Kurt, but couldn't have him. He chose her to have a character close to Kurt on Excalibur because he was on the original version. Don't act like he was doing her any favors.

This from the person claiming credit cards from an alternate reality would work? Heh. Funny.As opposed to the panoptichron, which can unhunge individuals from time, transport them into different realities, and be run by teensy little bug people? Mutant power inhibitor collars, which somehow turn off the effects of a person's DNA? Like, I can't put on a collar to inhibit my brown hair.

The credit card thing irked me the first time I read it, but I got over it in about 3 pages. You know, suspension of disbelief and all that. Besides, no writer or story is perfect, and nearly all have inconsistencies, errors, or minor nitpicks. Typically, however, if the rest of a story is very good or engrossing, people are far more willing to overlook inconsequential quibbles like that. If the rest of the writing is good enough.
So what you're saying is, you nitpick stuff from a writer you don't like.

But ignore stuff that could be nitpicked from a writer you do like.Who ignored it? It's right there. It's dumb. It's inconsequential, of course, and the rest of the writing far, far overshadowed such a minor quibble.

Besides, Magnus probably had experience manipulating the magnetic fileds of the objects to create credit cards before. He probably has done it before and as such could easily trick the system into accepting it. Is it speculation? Sure, but it satisfies my suspension of disbelief requirements enough to move on and enjoy the fantastic, thrilling AU story that Winnick created and left Roma out of.

ImpulseUCF

03-23-2007, 09:50 AM

Sorry, double post....

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 09:53 AM

ok now that the silly argument over the credit cards is hopefully over, who is that lady who elektra "saved" from that crystal thingy???

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 10:41 AM

I wish we could all find a reality where claremont can still write good comics.

QUOTE OF THE MONTH

Stephane Garrelie

03-23-2007, 10:45 AM

His Exiles are great, and for the last 2 issues his New Excalibur have been interesting.

tetragene

03-23-2007, 11:56 AM

lol, all this arguing over a credit card (from people who will argue over the logical merits of a D-POD...?) ?

I have a question...which is worse: an AU credit card working/functioning in another world? Or the X-Men allowing Kitty Pryde to be sent to Emma's Academy, knowing fully well exactly WHO Emma is and the danger/peril Kitty would likely face by being sent away to Emma's "headquarters"? Might just be me, but the latter definitely reads as a bigger WTF?! moment :p

blinkinrogue

03-23-2007, 12:03 PM

tetra, the credit card discussion is basically over and done with, so no need to rub it in hehe though i agree with you it shouldnt have been argued at all in the first place; thats why i had to say my piece... :)

ImpulseUCF

03-23-2007, 01:55 PM

Proposed New Line-Up:

R'Chell!!!!
Slipstream!!!
Tunderbird III!!!!!!!11!!11
Roma
All of the Captain Britains!
And of course, Psylocke and Sage as lesbian lovers!

;)

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 03:28 PM

Proposed New Line-Up:

R'Chell!!!!
Slipstream!!!
Tunderbird III!!!!!!!11!!11
Roma
All of the Captain Britains!
And of course, Psylocke and Sage as lesbian lovers!

;)

I want to conceive then covertly miscarry your babies, until we realise they were actually taken to some dark dimension, and return full grown with a chip on their shoulder.

Omega Alpha

03-23-2007, 03:49 PM

Frodo-X

03-23-2007, 03:53 PM

Yeah, it was just a joke, i don't see what's the big deal about it.
Apparently nobody gave Claremont the memo that he's not allowed to write jokes, because they will be used against him in the court of internet-whining.

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 03:55 PM

If it was just a joke, it was painfully unfunny.

Nachturne

03-23-2007, 04:04 PM

If it was just a joke, it was painfully unfunny.

You just don't have the funny gene. It comes attached to the "Loves Claremont" gene.

Stephane Garrelie

03-23-2007, 04:31 PM

That was a joke.
And a way to say that their vision is different from his own, but not an attack against Carey.

Stephane Garrelie

03-23-2007, 04:32 PM

And yep i found it funny.;) :p

xmanson

03-23-2007, 04:45 PM

hah, worshipper are just as lame as haters.

Hi-Fi

03-23-2007, 04:51 PM

WTF?? CC attacked Carey?? When was that?

Novaya Havoc

03-23-2007, 04:54 PM

WTF?? CC attacked Carey?? When was that?

From Exiles #82:

Morph: Sabertooth is the best!
Psylocke: Sigh...
Morph: C'mon Ms. Betsy -- level with the Morph-meister. Tell me the truth. Does he not rock?
Psylocke: He's not bad.
Morph: Ah, geeze, ah geeze. Im really sorry! I keep forgetting the version from your reality isn't a good guy.
Psylocke: Nope. But the way MY world is going, chances are Sabertooth's joined the X-Men... and taken my place.

Like I said: seems to be a jab at X-Men because CC would never allow for that. But, of course, I just may be missing out on an "ironic joke!" Seems like an insider dig to me.

Stephane Garrelie

03-23-2007, 04:55 PM

WTF?? CC attacked Carey?? When was that?

No attack at all, just Psylocke doing a joke about Sabertooth taking her place in the x-men.

xmanson

03-23-2007, 04:57 PM

He didn't,"Psylocke" said that the way things were going with the X-Men, she was probably replaced by someone like sabretooth now.

Which I thought was funny, specially given her history with him.

And I rmemeber Claremont mentioning right before he left that the team would have a member that would be ordered for them to harbor by the government that would make one of the current team at the time pretty angry, I guess it was Creed too.

Hi-Fi

03-23-2007, 05:05 PM

Stephane Garrelie

03-23-2007, 06:12 PM

Omega Alpha

03-23-2007, 09:55 PM

If it was just a joke, it was painfully unfunny.

If that's your opinion, OK, but it still is a joke.

Jake V

03-23-2007, 11:46 PM

From Exiles #82:

Morph: Sabertooth is the best!
Psylocke: Sigh...
Morph: C'mon Ms. Betsy -- level with the Morph-meister. Tell me the truth. Does he not rock?
Psylocke: He's not bad.
Morph: Ah, geeze, ah geeze. Im really sorry! I keep forgetting the version from your reality isn't a good guy.
Psylocke: Nope. But the way MY world is going, chances are Sabertooth's joined the X-Men... and taken my place.

Like I said: seems to be a jab at X-Men because CC would never allow for that. But, of course, I just may be missing out on an "ironic joke!" Seems like an insider dig to me.

To be fair to claremont, there's no character lame enough, convoluted enough, or offensively stereotypical enough to take Psylocke's place.

fishtaco

03-24-2007, 12:09 AM

Wait, we're actually debating here over whether the "Sabretooth joining the X-Men" joke was Claremont ripping on Carey?

Sigh. :(

Jake V

03-24-2007, 12:10 AM

Wait, we're actually debating here over whether the "Sabretooth joining the X-Men" joke was Claremont ripping on Carey?

Sigh. :(

You must be mistaken. There is no debate.

Syzygy

03-24-2007, 02:24 AM

Yes there is a contradiction. She's the Guardian of the Multiverse. And even if the Exiles escaped her notice until now, they've been mucking around one of the "Prime Realities" aka 616. The same one that just damaged the multiverse thanks to Scarlet Witch. So they certainly have been noticed now.

I'm totally cool with Roma, Otherworld, and the whole bit...except that part about 616 being the "prime" reality, or one of them. Bad idea. Reminds me of the pre-Copernican theory that the Earth was at the center of the universe, and the Sun and stars orbited it ("epicycles").

What a conceit!

616-Earth doesn't have to be the center of the omniverse for it to be important to readers.

Peace,
Syzygy

Syzygy

03-24-2007, 02:29 AM

I'm rereading the Asgardian Wars by Claremont. Anyone who has EVER doubted his writing skills needs to pick up this tpb. It makes me realize how much we've lost.

New Mutants in Asgard. My favorite comic-book tale of all time, I think.

So...what happened to him? Where did the magic go?

Peace,
Syzygy

Syzygy

03-24-2007, 02:34 AM

I hope not. One pet in his hands is already too much, specially considering the damage she did to Rachel Grey the last time he had her. Claremont should stay away from the X-universe for good, he clearly doesn't have anything to say about it anymore, it's long due his time to move on to do something, anything, else.

I've wanted CC to do a non X-book for years.

Make him stretch, get that fire burning....

Peace,
syzygy

Syzygy

03-24-2007, 02:38 AM

I liked it better the last time, when it was called The 10th Kingdom.

10th Kingdom the DVD rules!

There was supposed to be a sequel. I'm still waiting.

Peace,
Syzygy

Syzygy

03-24-2007, 03:04 AM

Shennanigans! I call shennanigans! If 616 is the prime reality and a death-obsessed, nigh-omnipotent being has shanghaied the ability to alter the fabric of reality and time itself and she doesn't show up? Then she sucks at her job and needs to be fired. That's why Winnick left her out...she got sacked!

More reason to dump the idea that 616 is somehow the "prime" reality.

Peace,
syzygy

Syzygy

03-24-2007, 03:20 AM

It really shouldn't be that hard to understand... if you actually know how credit cards work.

You see, when you swipe them through the reader the lil magnetic strip is read by the EDC software which then dials out via a stored telephone number to what is called an acquirer. This is an organization that collects credit authorization requests from various merchants. It checks to ensure the account exists, is active, not over the limit, etc, before approving or denying the transaction.

Magnus wouldn't have a credit card account in another reality. And the card wouldn't go through due to being invalid. It's no different then trying to use a credit card that's over the limit, cancelled, or not activated. Hence why it doesn't make a damn lick of sense and has bugged me from the start. They should have just stolen the clothes, etc. At least it wouldn't be a huge PIS moment. Considering they already broke into the stores anyway.

I don't see the problem.

If I, the Syzygy of Earth 333 hop on over to Earth 334, it seems to me that I might still be able to use my credit card....although the Syzygy of Earth 334 would get stuck with the bill!

Actually, I'd never stiff one of my alternate selves....

Peace,
Syzygy

DDM

03-24-2007, 09:03 AM

Of course it was a jab, CC loves to speak through his characters. We all know that. The sad think is: Carey is always praising CC's ideas and concepts in his interviews. Meh, whatever. X-Men is a better book anyway.

Every good writer speaks through his characters. However, I read it as not a jab at Carey, but more of a joke because Claremont intended to use Sabretooth in Uncanny X-Men himself had he stayed on the book.

Arilou

03-24-2007, 09:36 AM

I'm bored so here is my exiles wish list

Exiles
Spiderman 2099 - Scientist and smart guy of the group
Psylocke- Ninja of the group
Blink- second in command teleporter
Major Victory- He would be the leader of the team. Major Victor from Guardians of the Galaxy when he was carrying around the cap sheild and looked normal.
Nocturne- they had no idea what to do with her in the current 616
Aoa Sabretooth- Brute of the group
Deathlok- strategy and computer guy
Morph-replace by an alternate universe morph where everything was the same as the aoa morph until they hit the proteus storyline where this Morph was never eaten. Comedic relief. Okay I can dream.

That's a really bad idea. Too many known characters.
And I must note that Exiles Morph isn't AOA Morph.

How about this for a line-up?:

Doom: Teenage Dr. Doom. Still with an ego the size of a minor planetoid, scientific genius, and dabbler in sorcery, but not all out supervillain. Too-useful-to-let-go but to-dangerous-to-trust.

Jubilee: Alternate version that is apprenticed to Dr. Strange. For some reason I think Jubilee's costume would work great with a magicl lightshow.

Blink: Team leader/Veteran, preferably somewhat cynical after losing *yet another* team.

May Parker-Sablinova: Daughter of Peter Parker & Silver Sable (hey, it happened in a What-If!) wears a silver-reflective spider-man suit, more or less.

Mimic: Because, seriously, the series has been pretty bad since he died. He had cool powers, too. And I mean, he had a healing factor the size of Russia when he died. That's *made* for a resurrection.

Kl'lrt: Again, because Super-Skrull is awesome. And versatile. In a nice twist, in his reality the skrulls were conquered by a fascist human government using metahuman shock-troops, and he is a desperate attempt to counter this by skrull science. Think of him as a Skrull Captain America, but with the Avengers as the Nazis.

david r

03-24-2007, 10:10 AM

My line-up would be:

Howard the Duck 2099: Just like our cigar-chomping, hat-wearing, wiseass 616 Duck, except he can transform into body armor on demand!

Giant-Size Man-Thing: His name is Rico Gigantis, and the only power he possesses is to pleasure women. Paradise maybe....the only problem is he can only "do" mutants, he kills flatline females !!!

Dazzzler: Similiar to our 616 one, except she also has the power to attract any and all lesbians, who worship at her roller-skating feet !

Editor: His job is to destroy all creativity and imagination within the hearts and minds of humans. He was discovered in the "Quesada Universe" and latched onto the eXiles. They have been unable to lose him ever since.

Rodent-Eater Lad: Rodent-Eater Lad eats rodents. Nothing more need be said.

Callisto

03-24-2007, 10:48 AM

I think most Nocturne fans have a problem with her characterization when written under Claremont, not where she is right now. I may be wrong though, since I only just skimmed through the Nocturne thread.

agreed, he writers her as some 16 year old, when nocturne was portrayed much more mature and wiser under winnick.

Callisto

03-24-2007, 10:54 AM

CC pls pls pls pls pls leave blink where she is and you better not send her to limbo or i'll.... or i'll.... i wont like u any more HMMMMPPPHHHH......

Respect the lavender girl

she hasn't been lavender in ages.which is a shame because i liked her lavender with white eyes.

blinkinrogue

03-24-2007, 11:05 AM

she will always be lavender to me... :) :D

Callisto

03-24-2007, 01:19 PM

Mind control is an established storyline that every writer uses. We're dealing with superheroes with telepathic powers and characters like Shadow King and Nocturne who possess people. So please, don't act like it's only CC who uses those elements in his story, because it's simply not true. And neither is it a part if every story that he tells. To say so is a sad overstatement and does little to help your opinion in other matters. No, it's an alternate reality Slaymaster. The 616 Slaymaster is dead. And by the way, that wasn't a Claremont story. Slaymaster and tearing out Betsy's eyes was an Alan Davis story. Try again..

who are you kidding? cc uses the whole mind control thing more then any writer i have ever seen. almost each issue he has some character in his cast of heroes under some form of mind control forcing them to attack there team mates. its beyond pathetic, he needs to come up with something different cause its starting to get beyond extreme.

Mikey Brown

03-24-2007, 01:36 PM

From Exiles #82:

Morph: Sabertooth is the best!
Psylocke: Sigh...
Morph: C'mon Ms. Betsy -- level with the Morph-meister. Tell me the truth. Does he not rock?
Psylocke: He's not bad.
Morph: Ah, geeze, ah geeze. Im really sorry! I keep forgetting the version from your reality isn't a good guy.
Psylocke: Nope. But the way MY world is going, chances are Sabertooth's joined the X-Men... and taken my place.

Like I said: seems to be a jab at X-Men because CC would never allow for that. But, of course, I just may be missing out on an "ironic joke!" Seems like an insider dig to me.
Sounds like Claremont is a jealous little girl! Oh they kicked me off the X-Books! Oh my ideas a far greater than this Carey, Brubaker, Whedon era! I created the X-Men! Everone owes meeeeee!!!!:D
Writers do this all the time tho. Like Slott taking jabs at Austen for having She-Hulk sleep with Juggernaut but the difference is Slott=funny/Claremont=jealous little girl.

Mikey Brown

03-24-2007, 01:39 PM

Every good writer speaks through his characters. However, I read it as not a jab at Carey, but more of a joke because Claremont intended to use Sabretooth in Uncanny X-Men himself had he stayed on the book.

Where did Claremont say this? Can you give me a link?

jarrod

03-24-2007, 03:17 PM

To be fair to claremont, there's no character lame enough, convoluted enough, or offensively stereotypical enough to take Psylocke's place.
True, they're all already X-Men.

Arilou

03-24-2007, 04:25 PM

Rodent-Eater Lad: Rodent-Eater Lad eats rodents. Nothing more need be said.

Sorry, Rodent-Eater Lad is a DC character, thanks to Frank Miller.

Dizzy D

03-24-2007, 04:27 PM

Sorry, Rodent-Eater Lad is a DC character, thanks to Frank Miller.

Sounds more like a Legion character. Could be Matter-Eater Lad's kid sidekick.

sschroeder

03-24-2007, 04:29 PM

However, I read it as not a jab at Carey, but more of a joke because Claremont intended to use Sabretooth in Uncanny X-Men himself had he stayed on the book.

In addition keep in mind that 616 has been troubled with a Universe spanning war in Annihilation and tremendous super-hero infighting in America from Civil War. Going back just a bit most mutants were de-powered by M-Day. Crazy upheaval by any standard. So it is just as much a comment about the entire regular Marvel Universe. (Carey only writes one book set there.)

I liked that line. It was a nice little reference for people who read both books.

Arilou

03-24-2007, 04:58 PM

Sounds more like a Legion character. Could be Matter-Eater Lad's kid sidekick.

I was referring to ASBAR.

The Sword Is Drawn

03-26-2007, 06:18 AM

Going back to the whole 'But dimensions of Dinosaurs or monekeys is &*%$' argument, I've just begun re-reading eXiles from #1. And bugger me backwards with a blunt market vegetable if the Time-Broker himself doesn't actually mention almost the exact same concept in his first meeting with the original eXiles.

To paraphrase he says that in some dimensions people look different, are of opposite gender, or are monkeys. So it's not SO alien a concept, when you think about it...

Nachturne

03-26-2007, 06:34 AM

To paraphrase he says that in some dimensions people look different, are of opposite gender, or are monkeys. So it's not SO alien a concept, when you think about it...

Well, all that tells us is that it's in no way original to even the title. I mean, we already know it's not original to begin with (R'CHELL!!). And it still doesn't make it interesting.

Also, the Timebroker doesn't say that there are worlds where everyones a monkey or anything. It's more that specifically, these people appear on different worlds differently. Like, they all exist in some way on every Earth, just some maybe a single celled organism or something...

The Sword Is Drawn

03-26-2007, 06:38 AM

Well, all that tells us is that it's in no way original to even the title.

Not exclusive to the title, no. Alan Davis was drawing background stuff like that for alternate realities for both Alan Moore on Captain Britain and for Chris Claremont on Excalibur. It's not new, but at the same point it is plausible.

Also, the Timebroker doesn't say that there are worlds where everyones a monkey or anything. It's more that specifically, these people appear on different worlds differently. Like, they all exist in some way on every Earth, just some maybe a single celled organism or something...

Which is exactly what Chris Claremont was saying in the interview.