Tony Stark actually written well: Armor Wars

[Norrin Radd]

Wow, Captain America and Tony Stark faced off once before. Tony Stark acted uncharacteristically belligerent once before. Back then, did anyone complain that Marvel was ruining his character? Would furious messages have been flying back and forth across Internet comic book forums if the World Wide Web had actually existed in 1988?

Millionaire industrialist Tony Stark is an inventive genius who has dedicated all of his enormous financial and intellectual resources to a single guiding principle: the creation of technology for the betterment of humanity. Stark's greatest creation is a modern-day miracle: a suit of form-fitting, strength-enhancing, steel-mesh armor he dons to become the living symbol of his ideals, the Invincible Iron Man! But when Stark discovers that the same technology he used to create the Iron Man armor - technology so secret he didn't even dare patent it - is now in the hands of several deadly super-villains, he feels responsible for the evil they have done with the high-tech tools he unwittingly provided. In the face of objections from his government, friends, colleagues and fellow super heroes, Stark swears to use the power of Iron Man to bring the evil to an end - and to take back what's his. The Beatle, Stilt Man, the Controller, Stingray, the Mandroids, the Guardsmen and Firepower don't know it yet, but they've got a problem. The world's most powerful force for good isn't playing by the rules anymore. And he's coming for them.

http://www.amazon.com/Iron-Man-Armor-Wars-Avengers/dp/078512506X

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor_Wars

[StoneGold]

Probably.
.

[Mariah]

They had heated words back when Rhodey was Iron Man too, and Tony was in burning flop house. These two guys are always butting heads.

[Dusty.]

There's not even a question that his behavior in Armor Wars was NOTHING like how he was portrayed in CW. He did not try to hurt Cap or kill him, he just needed him to stay out of his business. There's a bit more to that story that carried over into Cap's series. It definitely wasn't even close to how he acted in CW, though.

[StoneGold]

There's not even a question that his behavior in Armor Wars was NOTHING like how he was portrayed in CW. He did not try to hurt Cap or kill him, he just needed him to stay out of his business. There's a bit more to that story that carried over into Cap's series. It definitely wasn't even close to how he acted in CW, though.

Depends on how you want to define close. Did Black Goliath end up dead? No. Did both stories involve Tony doing what he felt he needed to do because he felt he knew better than everyone else? Yes. Did both stories feature a fight with Cap? Yes. Did it go as far as the CW fight? No, but they were two different stories. For one thing, in CW, Tony was in the position Steve was in AW.

[Magneto Rocks]

Course I was just gonna say "Tony Stark actually written well: Civil War" but whatever:rolleyes:

[Mariah]

Course I was just gonna say "Tony Stark actually written well: Civil War" but whatever:rolleyes:
I've read him written better. John Byrne did a great job during Armor Wars II, Len Kaminski had an all right run. Denny O'Neil wrote an alright drunk.:p I liked Busiek, but I preferred when he wrote him in Avengers, as opposed to his solo for some reason. Scott Lobdell did a bang up job during Heroes Reborn. Loved, loved, loved Christos Gage's version in the Casualties one-shot. I'm eagerly awaiting his turn on IM's solo. Joe Casey wrote a good mini featuring his old enemies. Geoff Johns wrote a pip IM, as well.

[Shellhead]

Armor Wars was well-written. And in some ways, the characterization of Tony was nearly the opposite of what we saw in Civil War. Back then, Tony was so adamant that he didn't want his technology mis-used by others that he even attacked SHIELD and the prison guards at the Vault, just to de-activate their armor. Today, we have Tony running SHIELD and responsible for an even more extreme prison than the Vault.

Long before Armor Wars, there was another incident involving Steve and Tony. Cap punched Iron Man in the face(plate) in Avengers #168 during a heated discussion about leadership style. Scarlet Witch broke it up with a hex before Cap could even yell "ow" and wave his hand around.

[The Shadow]

He did not try to hurt Cap or kill him

I don't recall him trying to hurt Cap of kill him in CW either :confused:

[TonyJaymz03]

i think he is being written very well in his comic book right now

but everywheres else? he comes off as the Lex Luthor of marvel u

[StoneGold]

Armor Wars was well-written. And in some ways, the characterization of Tony was nearly the opposite of what we saw in Civil War. Back then, Tony was so adamant that he didn't want his technology mis-used by others that he even attacked SHIELD and the prison guards at the Vault, just to de-activate their armor. Today, we have Tony running SHIELD and responsible for an even more extreme prison than the Vault.



It's pretty easy to make it fit, though. Tony took down the Guardsmen because he didn't trust anyone but himself to control the armor.


Now he controls everything.

[bulbasteve]

Armor Wars was well-written. And in some ways, the characterization of Tony was nearly the opposite of what we saw in Civil War. Back then, Tony was so adamant that he didn't want his technology mis-used by others that he even attacked SHIELD and the prison guards at the Vault, just to de-activate their armor. Today, we have Tony running SHIELD and responsible for an even more extreme prison than the Vault.

Well he admits as much himself in Civil War Files. I personally like him much better now that he realized what a dick he used to be...by being a more responsible dick now.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

Depends on how you want to define close. Did Black Goliath end up dead? No. Did both stories involve Tony doing what he felt he needed to do because he felt he knew better than everyone else? Yes. Did both stories feature a fight with Cap? Yes. Did it go as far as the CW fight? No, but they were two different stories. For one thing, in CW, Tony was in the position Steve was in AW.

Nothing Tony did in AW is nearly as extreme as what he did in CW, if Tony allowed psychopath villains to work for him in AW than a comparsion would be valid.

[StoneGold]

Nothing Tony did in AW is nearly as extreme as what he did in CW, if Tony allowed psychopath villains to work for him in AW than a comparsion would be valid.

He caused a prison break out so he could get his armor back. Doesn't seem too different.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

He caused a prison break out so he could get his armor back. Doesn't seem too different.

Who escaped?

[StoneGold]

Who escaped?

Specifically? I don't know, and I don't have the reference material handy to check.

[XPac]

Who escaped?

If I remember it correctly, Captain America in his Captain days had a team of heroes (Nomad, Falcon, D-Man) that stopped most of the villians from escaping. The only one I specifically remember actually getting away was Titania, because D-Man chickened out of fighting her.

[StoneGold]

If I remember it correctly, Captain America in his Captain days had a team of heroes (Nomad, Falcon, D-Man) that stopped most of the villians from escaping. The only one I specifically remember actually getting away was Titania, because D-Man chickened out of fighting her.

I seem to recall some later stories with formerly captured characters using the break out as an excuse for them not being in prison. I'm not positive on that though, so take it with a grain of salt.


Either way, it is more a matter of intent, or in this case, lack thereof. Cap wasn't there at Tony's request. He was just there. And Tony wasn't doing anything to stop the breakout, just cause it. I know it caused some serious trust issues between Tony and Clint when they attempted to stop the Vault breakout in Acts of Vengeance.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

I seem to recall some later stories with formerly captured characters using the break out as an excuse for them not being in prison. I'm not positive on that though, so take it with a grain of salt.


Either way, it is more a matter of intent, or in this case, lack thereof. Cap wasn't there at Tony's request. He was just there. And Tony wasn't doing anything to stop the breakout, just cause it. I know it caused some serious trust issues between Tony and Clint when they attempted to stop the Vault breakout in Acts of Vengeance.

But see his intent was not to allow there guys go free in AW, but in CW, he actively allowed dangerous super villains to be used as agents and there seemed to be some control issues (it seems that Jester and Jack were about to kill Spidey before Punisher showed up) and Bullseye has recently crippled Jack Flag. All of that seeems worse to me than Stilt-Man escaping from prison.

[Dagger]

I like Iron Man, I just have one question: When is he getting rid of his Extremis? I never really cared for that plot element added to his mythos. Not everyone in the MU has to have super-powers. I liked how Tony had to rely on his armor to do what the big boys do, now he can speak to all technology and whatever else the Extremis allows? boo.

[StoneGold]

But see his intent was not to allow there guys go free in AW, but in CW, he actively allowed dangerous super villains to be used as agents and there seemed to be some control issues (it seems that Jester and Jack were about to kill Spidey before Punisher showed up) and Bullseye has recently crippled Jack Flag. All of that seeems worse to me than Stilt-Man escaping from prison.

But in this case, his intent was to cripple the guard system of the most dangerous supermax prison in existence. If he didn't think that would lead to a prison break, that's just stupid. It wasn't that he intended to break out any villains, just that he didn't care if they did, as long as he got his way. Sound familiar?

[tedward1984]

Now I admit I haven't read AW, but I would think using super villains on a nannite leash is a lot more responisble. Ya, there have been problems but its still completely different from carelessly allowing several criminals to escape and go about their business unimpeded.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

But in this case, his intent was to cripple the guard system of the most dangerous supermax prison in existence. If he didn't think that would lead to a prison break, that's just stupid. It wasn't that he intended to break out any villains, just that he didn't care if they did, as long as he got his way. Sound familiar?

But look at the consequences of these different actions, did anyone of the escpaed villains do anything as bad as Bullseye crippling Jack Flag? Besides the thunderbolts program wasn't the worse thing Tony did in CW, does anything in AW compare with Tony action' CW frontline 11?

[StoneGold]

But look at the consequences of these different actions, did anyone of the escpaed villains do anything as bad as Bullseye crippling Jack Flag? Besides the thunderbolts program wasn't the worse thing Tony did in CW, does anything in AW compare with Tony action' CW frontline 11?

I dunno. I don't remember. For all I know, one of them tried to take over the world. But really, are you trying to stick a point scale on morality? Oh, this is seven times worse than when he did the other thing. In Armor Wars, Stark disregarded the safety of society by disabling the Guardsmen armor. He put his own personal needs over the potential safety of society at large. Granted, he did it because he felt that having variations of his armor in hands that he couldn't personally trust was dangerous. Which again, sounds very familiar.

Seriously, if I BS'd you and said that the AW breakout allowed, oh, let's say the Master to escape, who then launched a plan to take over the world, wouldn't that have been worse than Jack Flag getting paralyzed? And you wouldn't have known the difference.


And was talking to the reporters really that evil? Because it seems to me that's all he did in #11.

[The Master Meglomaniac]

I dunno. I don't remember. For all I know, one of them tried to take over the world. But really, are you trying to stick a point scale on morality? Oh, this is seven times worse than when he did the other thing. In Armor Wars, Stark disregarded the safety of society by disabling the Guardsmen armor. He put his own personal needs over the potential safety of society at large. Granted, he did it because he felt that having variations of his armor in hands that he couldn't personally trust was dangerous. Which again, sounds very familiar.

Seriously, if I BS'd you and said that the AW breakout allowed, oh, let's say the Master to escape, who then launched a plan to take over the world, wouldn't that have been worse than Jack Flag getting paralyzed? And you wouldn't have known the difference.


And was talking to the reporters really that evil? Because it seems to me that's all he did in #11.

There often is a point scale to morality based on affect of said action, which is murder has more jail time then attempted murder.

Besides I guess you forget about the part in CW Frontline 11, where Tony had Gobby try to kill an Atlantean ambassador so that therer would be a war between the US government and Atlantis, for the purpose of uniting the heroes and convinving them to register rather so that we could unite against saids threat. Such a war could have killed hundreds, maybe thousands of people, how does anything in AW compare to that?

[StoneGold]

There often is a point scale to morality based on affect of said action, which is murder has more jail time then attempted murder.

Besides I guess you forget about the part in CW Frontline 11, where Tony had Gobby try to kill an Atlantean ambassador so that therer would be a war between the US government and Atlantis, for the purpose of uniting the heroes and convinving them to register rather so that we could unite against saids threat. Such a war could have killed hundreds, maybe thousands of people, how does anything in AW compare to that?
That didn't happen in 11. I think that was 9.


In any case, no one died, so this goes to fit my point perfectly. Both are cases where Tony gets what Tony wants, consequences be damned. I'm not saying Armor Wars was better or worse, just another example of the same behavior.

[Cthulhudrew]

Long before Armor Wars, there was another incident involving Steve and Tony. Cap punched Iron Man in the face(plate) in Avengers #168 during a heated discussion about leadership style. Scarlet Witch broke it up with a hex before Cap could even yell "ow" and wave his hand around.

And then there was the time, post-Armor Wars when Cap and Tony butted heads over Tony using AIM/Mentallo's telepathic device to mindwipe his secret identity from everyone on the planet, because he felt that the world was more secure with that knowledge kept secret, and unilaterally decided to mess with people's memories. Kind of a strange twist to go from believing that secret identities are a personal choice and right to registration (though his position as stated at the very end of CW somewhat mollifies his apparent views prior to #7)

[Cthulhudrew]

Who escaped?

Titania, Armadillo, Mr. Hyde, some earthquake guy from Iron Man (can't recall his name), and the Griffon were among the escapees. Cap and his crew managed to recapture most of them (save for Titania, who D-Man let escape after she nearly killed him, and the earthquake guy, who Nomad let fall to his apparent death). There were several others who did get away into other titles. Several of the Guardsmen and security staff at the Vault were injured badly by escapees as well- one guy was pretty brutally beaten by the Wizard, IIRC, though he later got his revenge when the Wizard was recaptured.

[Mariah]

The Earthquake guy was Vibro. Lord, I'm such a nerd.:p

[Nitz the Bloody]

Biggest difference between Armor Wars Iron Man and Civil War Iron Man: motivation.

Armor Wars Iron Man is motivated by compassion for his fellow human beings. He confiscates stolen copies of his armor because he knows that, in the wrong hands, they will kill innocent people. Armor Wars Tony doesn't want that on his conscience, so he goes to fanatical extents to make sure that can't happen.

Civil War Iron Man doesn't seem to have any particular compassion, but rather a cynical and detached view of how things should work. The buzzword used by Marvel writers is " futurist ", but the reality is more mechanical-- he sees society as a contraption that works best when all the parts are moving in harmony. He's not afraid to remove parts for the sake of the whole, because Civil War Tony no longer thinks about individuals and their personal concerns.

In short, one character is an ethically driven human being who will put everything on the line to right a wrong. The other character's humanity has been stripped from him, and any emotional response from him ( even his pathetic bawling in The Confession ) feels like crocodile tears.

[Mariah]

Even the armor he was contracted out to do and got paid for? Ala the Mandroids?

[StoneGold]

Even the armor he was contracted out to do and got paid for? Ala the Mandroids?

It wasn't Stark who got paid, Spymaster stole the plans. But while saving people who could be hurt by the armor might have been the initial motive (much like saving people from untrained heroes was the initial motive in CW), things quickly got out of hand, with the deaths of the Gremlin, who was wearing the Titanium Man armor at the time, and attacking Stingray, who's suit contained no Stark technology. Oops.