MK: Spider-Man by Millar? [Archive] - Comic Book Resources Forums

1WEBHEAD

03-18-2007, 04:55 PM

This has quite a few positive reviews on Amazon.com. For those of you who have read it, is it all worthy of all this hype?

And how is the art in it?

Thanks in advance.

It depends on your taste. If you read Mark Millar's Civil War and Ultimates, you'd know that Millar shines in the action and suspense department. If you want to read an "Kickin' ass Spidey on the edge" kind of story then you'll be in for a treat. Don't expect any heartwarming character development here though, it's all action. Though the ending may come off as anticlimatic (like it did for many readers) it's still a fun ride IMO.

Major changes happen with the Scorpian and Venom, Spidey and the Black Cat fight side by side again, and villians such as Doctor Octopus, Electro, The Vulture, The Owl, and The Sinister 12 appear to tke Spidey out while he searches for his missing Aunt May.

:)

Billy Parker

03-18-2007, 11:12 PM

Dude, it has every major villian and character in one story!! The story and art are awesome. One of the best Spidey stories you could buy, seriously. Awesome fights with Goblin, Vulture, and Electro in the first 4 issues alone! If you want an action packed and eventful Spidey story, buy this one.

Omega Alpha

03-18-2007, 11:47 PM

The best 616 Spidey thing i read in a long time. Very action packed and entertaining.

Blight

03-19-2007, 12:29 AM

It has a great beginning and middle but the climax well.. it sucks. For such buildup from previous issues we get fights that last mere panels. Also the endings to the fights at the end are well too easy. It's almost makes you scratch your head and wonder Spidey here why again?

Sean Whitmore

03-19-2007, 02:25 AM

Agreed on the ending falling apart a bit, but the 11 issues leading up to it more than make up for it.

SEAN

a-spidey

03-19-2007, 06:42 AM

liked it too. The art was great imo cuz i like Dodson a lot and the story was better than just average. The ending i agree fell a bit short though...

Red Lotus

03-19-2007, 10:29 AM

The first half was great and felt like a huge action movie, But the second half was just as bad as the first half was good I dont know where it happen, but it lost steam and became pretty boring torwards the end.

killerbass

03-19-2007, 10:29 AM

Agreed on the ending falling apart a bit, but the 11 issues leading up to it more than make up for it.

SEAN

Quoted for truth.

(Once again you have crystallized my thoughts...)

I love the issue (3 or 4) where Owl sends Spidey on a wild goose chase. Way too cool!

--Tom

The Punished

03-19-2007, 10:47 AM

I have to agree with the rest of the guys. I enjoye the story and the art by both Dodson & Cho. Likewise I also felt the ending was a bit anti-climatic but I did not feel cheated on the story. I enjoyed the read & will probably pickup the collected when I can find the $$.

streator

03-19-2007, 10:59 AM

I liked it a lot. Dodson's art is awesome. And If I'm not mistaken, Frank Cho did an issue or two of that particular arc as well. I love Frank Cho's work.

pretty much how i feel as well. it was the last spider-man monthly title i picked up, actually.

froma

03-20-2007, 02:33 AM

Millar's run on MK Spider-Man is what brought me back to reading Spidey on a monthly basis; it is my second favorite story next to Blue.

Magneto Rocks

03-20-2007, 03:47 AM

It really was phenomenal. And no writer has ever given an Electro battle to beat the one in #3. Up until issue #12, it holds together like glue, then it comes apart a bit but hey, there are many many many Spider-stories with much worse endings out there!

Billy Parker

03-20-2007, 03:48 AM

it is my second favorite story next to Blue.

Wow, I just finished reading someone else say this in the "Reign #4" thread and now I have to quote what I wrote in that thread.

One thing I've never understood, is how many people think "Spider-Man Blue" is good. Seriously, it's one of the top 2 worst Spider-Man stories I've ever read, maybe worst. And I've read every issue of Amazing Spider-Man. 500+ issues.

Jeph Loeb retold a Stan Lee Spider-Man story, though Stan Lee did it 1,000 times better, no lie. Anyone else read the Stan Lee stuff and know what I'm talking about.

Dear God, someone tell me they understand why Spider-Man Blue sucks.

I could give many, many reasons why, but I want to see if anyone else thinks it is the worst Spider-Man story ever.

I mean I love, love the majority of Spidey stories I read, but this...

froma

03-20-2007, 05:08 AM

One thing I've never understood, is how many people think "Spider-Man Blue" is good. Seriously, it's one of the top 2 worst Spider-Man stories I've ever read, maybe worst. And I've read every issue of Amazing Spider-Man. 500+ issues.
What's wrong with it?

I haven't gotten around to reading older issues of Amazing (gotta get my hands on that DVD!), but Loeb going back to something Stan Lee did some 30 years prior hardly seems like a reason to rank it so low.

I thought that it was a moving story and served as a great way to keep Pete and Gwen's relationship 'alive' so long after her death. It was neat to see Spider-Man in an era that I wasn't around for.

Dangerous

03-20-2007, 11:16 AM

The art was great since it was the Dodson’s, and the story while a little like Hush was gripping to read and the fights in particular I was impressed with.
That's saying something, the fight between Venom and SM in #11 was amazing.
After that though, #12 was a bit of a let down considering what could have been.

Frank Cho’s MJ was nice too, heh.

Mister Mets

03-20-2007, 01:25 PM

I loved it.

It's in my Top 10 Spider-Man stories.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=68955

Here's what I wrote about it.

8. Down Among the Dead Men (Marvel Knights Spider-Man #1-12)

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11998/400/11998_4_002.jpg
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11998/400/11998_4_008.jpg
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11998/400/11998_4_011.jpg

The story is reprinted in three TPB's, but I recommend the oversized hardcover which has the whole thing in one great book, and costs just as much.

Credits:
Mark Millar (Script), Terry Dodson (Pencils Issues 1-4, 5-7, 9-12), Rachel Dodson (Inks Issues 1-4, 5-7, 9-12), Frank Cho (Issues 5, and 8), Avalon's Ian Hannin (Colors), Virtual Calligraphy's Cory Petit (Letters).

The idea of the Marvel Knights Spider-Man book is brilliantly simple. Give a-list creators twelve issues to do their take on Spider-Man, and repeat. The first time around Marvel produced a masterpiece.

The story begins en medea res of a very vicious Spider-Man & Green Goblin battle. Soon after that, someone vandalizes Ben Parker's grave, a great way of earning Spider-Man's attention, and a villain calls Peter Parker to announce that he has Aunt May. Peter takes a great risk with his identity that some have criticized (even though he did the same thing in Amazing Spider-MAn Volume 1 #17).
The second issue's widely considered the worst of the lot, although I feel it perfectly shows a confused Peter Parker, who doesn't know what to do. And his quick fuse with the Avengers is very remniscent of one of hsi first encounters with the team in Amazing Spider-Man Annual 3.
The third issue has a very vicious battle with Electro, and the fourth issue has a great sequence in which the Vulture attacks a hospitalized drugged out of his mind on painkillers Spider-Man, while still being presented in a sympatheric light.
Meanwhile there's a five million dollar reward on Spider-Man's identity, and a lot of people are getting killed for it.
Midway through the story Peter makes a very disturbing discovery, which makes him want to quit being Spider-Man. Meanwhile Eddie Brock auctions the Venom symbiote, resulting in a lot of chaos as the new Venom attacks Peter's high school reunion. And Peter makes a decision which effectively ends his rivalry with J. Jonah Jameson.
"The Last Stand" finale reveals who was behind Aunt May's abduction, and why. It's not really a surprise, but it's perfectly in character for the main villain. The storyline also includes Mary Jane's strongest moments, Spider-Man's best battle with Venom (in the eleventh issue, it's as perfect as battles go), one of Spider-Man's oldest enemies joining the a-list, the Sinister Twelve, Spider-Man knowing he'll die fighting them, but deciding he can still make a difference, a perfect solution to that threat, and Spider-Man's greatest enemy doing some very nasty things.
Oh, and there's a drugged Doctor Octopus.
This is pretty much the single definitve Spider-Man story.

Other Critics....

Randy Lander of the Fourth Rail.com gives the second issue a 2/10
http://www.thefourthrail.com/reviews/snapjudgments/051004/marvelknightsspiderman2.shtml
There's an in-depth review of the story at Madgoblin's site, in which he says the ending doesn't deliver everything it promised (although I do believe he's said it probably will be in his Top 25.)
http://www.spideykicksbutt.com/YearinReview/SpidermanShush.html
There's a wicked parody available at http://mysite.verizon.net/fanboyprime/spider/
There's a few reviews of Issue 9 (including a very negative one) at
http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/110288971322210.htm
Stan Lee said some nice things about it in the introduction to the hardcover, comparing it to a well-made Spider-Man movie, and promises that readers will say it's "One of the all-time best books I've ever read."

Dangerous

03-20-2007, 06:36 PM

I reckon its def in my top 25 Spider-Man storys.

Billy Parker

03-20-2007, 07:55 PM

What's wrong with it?

Spider-Man Blue - one of my least favorite stories.

I don't want to be too negative. So I'll just say:

-I didn't like the tape recorder narration by Peter.

-The story went nowhere and didn't really have an ending.

-Loeb wanted to show off the artwork, which was good, but the story still went nowhere.

-It ended weird with Mary Jane commenting on the story.

-Stan Lee did it much better.

Maybe it was just a bad idea I don't like.

Beacon

03-20-2007, 08:07 PM

This has quite a few positive reviews on Amazon.com. For those of you who have read it, is it all worthy of all this hype?

It’s a fairly polarizing story among readers. Most either love it or hate it. I seem to be a in the small group that comes somewhere in the middle. That isn’t because I thought the story itself was an average (though I suppose it ended up working out that way overall) so much as I thought the individual issues tended to be either really great or really terrible. The Millar run is a collection of great fights*, bad ideas**, and wasted potential***.

*Yes, the third issue was awesome though I’m not going to claim that it is the definitive Electro story because we’ve seen him smarter (Spectacular #134-136), more powerful (Amazing #422-423, 425), and more human (Spider-Man #38-40) in the past.

**The “all super villains work for evil corporations so that the heroes will be distracted and Norman is in on that one too because he’s responsible for EVERYTHING” retcon was just horrid. Thankfully this information was provided by a crazy person retelling the story of another crazy person so it would be easy for any halfway competent writer to fix.

***I’m not a big Eddie Brock fan but I LOVE the idea of Mac Gargon as Venom. It felt a bit of a cheat that he was so easily beaten.

And how is the art in it?

It’s good. Granted the Dodson cheesecake tends to rub some people the wrong way.

Dangerous

03-20-2007, 08:36 PM

Spider-Man Blue - one of my least favorite stories.

I don't want to be too negative. So I'll just say:

-I didn't like the tape recorder narration by Peter.

-The story went nowhere and didn't really have an ending.

-Loeb wanted to show off the artwork, which was good, but the story still went nowhere.

-It ended weird with Mary Jane commenting on the story.

-Stan Lee did it much better.

Maybe it was just a bad idea I don't like.

Your forgetting the main problem- that Loeb did not have an accurate grasp of continuity.

Mister Mets

03-21-2007, 11:02 AM

It’s a fairly polarizing story among readers. Most either love it or hate it. I seem to be a in the small group that comes somewhere in the middle. That isn’t because I thought the story itself was an average (though I suppose it ended up working out that way overall) so much as I thought the individual issues tended to be either really great or really terrible. The Millar run is a collection of great fights*, bad ideas**, and wasted potential***.

*Yes, the third issue was awesome though I’m not going to claim that it is the definitive Electro story because we’ve seen him smarter (Spectacular #134-136), more powerful (Amazing #422-423, 425), and more human (Spider-Man #38-40) in the past.

**The “all super villains work for evil corporations so that the heroes will be distracted and Norman is in on that one too because he’s responsible for EVERYTHING” retcon was just horrid. Thankfully this information was provided by a crazy person retelling the story of another crazy person so it would be easy for any halfway competent writer to fix.

***I’m not a big Eddie Brock fan but I LOVE the idea of Mac Gargon as Venom. It felt a bit of a cheat that he was so easily beaten.

It’s good. Granted the Dodson cheesecake tends to rub some people the wrong way.

**- Millar made it clear that only a few supervillains worked for crazy corporations. However those few were instrumental in inspiring the rest.

Your forgetting the main problem- that Loeb did not have an accurate grasp of continuity.
You could have a good story with a horrible sense of continuity.
In this case, the continuity problems are easily explainable as Spider-Man's memories/ understanding of the events several years later.

Beacon

03-21-2007, 11:17 AM

**- Millar made it clear that only a few supervillains worked for crazy corporations. However those few were instrumental in inspiring the rest.

It’s still a terrible idea. The presence of a huge conspiracy (as apposed to isolated troublemakers like Justin Hammer) also makes it imposable to argue for the validity of the Pro-Reg argument in Millar’s Civil War. On top of that, it doesn’t actually accomplish what it set out to do; explain why Villain X always fights Hero Y instead of Hero Z. Rhino still fights the Hulk about as often as Spider-Man and, even when he does run into Spidey, they don’t fight because Rhino actively targets Spider-Man. They fight because Spider-Man is frequently the closest hero around when the Rhino decides to rob a bank.

Alan2099

03-21-2007, 11:27 AM

I'm suprised the story went on for so far and still managed to have so many ideas that went nowhere or ended in an anticlimax.

Plus I just really don't like how he writers Spider-man. There just doesn't seem to be any fun in the character. His Green Goblin is even worse, coming across as evil generic crazy badguy.

Plus he finally had Green Goblin meeting Dr. Octopus and then just threw the idea away.

I just don't get what the big deal about this storyline was.

Magneto Rocks

03-21-2007, 11:30 AM

Actually personally I liked it and thought it explained a lot from the silver age.

Dark Soul # 7

03-21-2007, 12:14 PM

I loved it, easily one of my favorite Spider-man stories ever.

IMO Millar pretty much took the components that define Spider-man's life and just ran with it for twelve issues, and it worked great.

With Peter we have a competent and experienced super-hero at the same time as he is your average Joe Everyman. His feelings of guilt and responsability go hand in hand with each other and are often what he gets his strength from. Sure he's not that funny, but this is not a humor story. He's pushed to his mental, emotional and physical limits and there is little humor in that.

Mary Jane was wonderful in this storyline. Independent and strong, she showed her experience of being the wife of a superhero. How to handle the little things that a superhero might forget in his busy life, rent for example, and keeping her head cool in a crisis. Also, she shoot Norman friggin Osborn. That's awesome in its own rights!

Millar also used May better than most other writers. She was only in the first and last issue but her presence was there, even if it was plot-devicey. Her speech to Peter about why he's doing the right thing at the end is beautiful.

I could on about how Norman once again shows why he is the greatest Spider-man villain ever how much the art rocked or how I loved Millar's take on the super-criminal underground world. But it would all amount to the same thing. That I love this story.

scottv

03-21-2007, 10:34 PM

I enjoyed it a lot. I thought it was really well written and good art.

Greg Anderson

03-22-2007, 04:09 AM

Wow, I'm actually very shocked to see all those positive reviews. I thought I was the only person who thought this story was great. I'm not a big Spider-man fan (I love the character and some of his villains and cast, but I can never get into his stories) and MK Spidey was the only Spider-man story that I just loved and thought was fantastic.

I never got why people hated it, so when reading this thread, I'm shocked to see all of a sudden people like it.

Crimson

03-22-2007, 04:47 AM

It's a fun action romp... the ending is a little lack luster but there are some great fights.

It's not a classic but its a damn fun run.

jamiejame911

05-21-2008, 06:31 PM

Did this run come out in HC/TPB? I can't seem to locate it...

General Grievous

05-21-2008, 06:35 PM

I remember reading this title, I still have a bad taste in mouth to this day, mark millar's work is hit or miss for me. thought the art wasn't bad, if everybody's nose's weren't drawn so rubbery!

Brand

05-21-2008, 06:44 PM

As far as I know, all of the MK: Spider-Man issues can be found in TPB form. I believe the first three contain the Millar issues. You should be able to find them on Amazon or just order them through your LCS like I did.

Mister Mets

05-21-2008, 06:56 PM

Here you go.

Two websites which sell the hardcover (which is probably a better deal than getting the three trade paperbacks if only for the Stan Lee introduction.)

http://www.amazon.com/Marvel-Knights-Spider-Man-Mark-Millar/dp/078511842X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211417705&sr=8-1

http://www.buy.com/prod/marvel-knights-spider-man-volume-1-hc/q/loc/106/31280361.html

Billy Parker

05-22-2008, 10:32 AM

One of the greatest Spider-Man stories ever told!! Get the hardcover.

yadadaimhollaing

05-22-2008, 09:16 PM

This was a great series up until the other storyline.

Jim Thompson

05-23-2008, 06:33 AM

It's come out in hardcover (and one of the Borders stores I frequent has it right now -- think it's been on the shelves for six months now). However, I also think it belongs in the trash. Another Millar nightmare. Bleech!

matthewaos

05-23-2008, 07:37 AM

Actually I'm gonna disagree with you Jim, I think it was a really good Spidey story. One of the best stories that appeared in Spider-Man after 1999.

Jim Thompson

05-23-2008, 07:43 AM

Actually I'm gonna disagree with you Jim, I think it was a really good Spidey story. One of the best stories that appeared in Spider-Man after 1999.Yeah, Millar just doesn't work for me.

hawkeye comeback

05-23-2008, 08:34 AM

Yeah, Millar just doesn't work for me.

why what u got against my fave spidey story and against millar in general

Jim Thompson

05-23-2008, 08:37 AM

why what u got against my fave spidey story and against millar in generalI just don't find Millar's stories entertaining or in any way enjoyable. In fact, most of the time I find them insulting.

Mister Mets

05-23-2008, 09:23 AM

Actually I'm gonna disagree with you Jim, I think it was a really good Spidey story. One of the best stories that appeared in Spider-Man after 1999.Just curious. Why's 1999 the cutoff point here? Were there fantastic stories in 1998 that I'm unaware of?

JamesOliva

05-23-2008, 10:16 AM

Just curious. Why's 1999 the cutoff point here? Were there fantastic stories in 1998 that I'm unaware of?

...:confused: ...

Identity Crisis was fun...I guess...

ReggieWhiteJr

05-23-2008, 05:47 PM

With the exception of issue #3, I just picked up issues #4-9 for $1 at my comic shop today! :cool:

matthewaos

05-23-2008, 06:22 PM

Just curious. Why's 1999 the cutoff point here? Were there fantastic stories in 1998 that I'm unaware of?

Nothing, I just used the reboot as a starting point. At the point MA Spider-Man was out, only Jenkins had some really good stories and JMS first story, for what it is, not for what it became. But none of them as epic as MK Spider-Man. I think it was a story that changed things but was not crap. Sorry for using 1999 and make you remember that period to see if anything was any good.
Identity crisis was kind of fun though. I liked Dusk!

yadadaimhollaing

05-23-2008, 09:32 PM

With the exception of issue #3, I just picked up issues #4-9 for $1 at my comic shop today! :cool:

Well I just got marvel knights spiderman #3 in the mail today to almost complete (missing #27) my marvel knights/sensational series =). Too bad I paid full price for all my issues =(

ReggieWhiteJr

05-23-2008, 09:36 PM

Well I just got marvel knights spiderman #3 in the mail today to almost complete (missing #27) my marvel knights/sensational series =). Too bad I paid full price for all my issues =(

Bummer. I got mine from the dollar bin. Never hurts to check those out.

Venom

05-24-2008, 06:56 AM

Mark Millar's 12 issue Marvel Knights Spider-Man story is easily one of the best stories this decade and one of the best Spidey stories ever.

Billy Parker

05-24-2008, 04:29 PM

Mark Millar's 12 issue Marvel Knights Spider-Man story is easily one of the best stories this decade and one of the best Spidey stories ever.

That's the absolute truth!

Jim Thompson

05-24-2008, 06:33 PM

Mark Millar's 12 issue Marvel Knights Spider-Man story is easily one of the best stories this decade and one of the best Spidey stories ever.These statements in no way reflect the totality of Spider-Man fans, and solely represent the views of the poster. Any similarity between these views and other fans is purely coincidental.

Mark Millar's Spider-Man -- bleech!

BeastieRunner

05-24-2008, 09:09 PM

Mark Millar's 12 issue Marvel Knights Spider-Man story is easily one of the best stories this decade and one of the best Spidey stories ever.

That's the absolute truth!

I agree as well. :smile: In fact it's in my top 3 Spider-Man stories of all time (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showpost.php?p=3383411&postcount=107).

These statements in no way reflect the totality of Spider-Man fans, and solely represent the views of the poster. Any similarity between these views and other fans is purely coincidental.

Mark Millar's Spider-Man -- bleech!

I disagree.

SpideyZERO

05-24-2008, 09:26 PM

I think it's just ok. Pretty good but not that great. I don't like how Peter looks like, and the final battle is anti climatic

Dark Soul # 7

05-25-2008, 04:03 AM

Count me to the people who loves Miller's MK: Spider-man.

It has everything I love about Spider-man and kicks all kinds of ass.

matthewaos

05-25-2008, 04:13 AM

Though everything else Millar did is not that great. Not that it's bad, but I think it's ok.

Magneto Rocks

05-25-2008, 04:48 AM

Mark Millar's 12 issue Marvel Knights Spider-Man story is easily one of the best stories this decade and one of the best Spidey stories ever.

Damn right!

RazorBats79

05-25-2008, 02:09 PM

Mark Millar's 12 issue Marvel Knights Spider-Man story is easily one of the best stories this decade and one of the best Spidey stories ever.

Maybe. But the art sucks big time! :evilsmile:

Jessie Garrett

05-25-2008, 10:18 PM

I'm not a fan of the Venom redesign BUT I enjoyed the issues.

Chintzy Beatnik

05-26-2008, 07:33 AM

Back in the day I thought the story was just okay so I gave all my issues to my brother-in-law.

I just might have to order the hardcover and sit down to reread the whole story all at once.

Venom

05-27-2008, 05:29 AM

I'm not a fan of the Venom redesign BUT I enjoyed the issues.

I would've loved to have seen Millar and Dodson use the original Venom. But Millar told me that at the time he thought Eddie Brock was becoming unpopular so he started up the idea that Michelinie originally had planned for Amazing Spider-Man #400 with the Symbiote jumping hosts. Millar told me that he settled on the Scorpion because he thought he was the next person that suited the Symbiote best because of his animal personality.

Jessie Garrett

05-27-2008, 09:56 PM

I would've loved to have seen Millar and Dodson use the original Venom. But Millar told me that at the time he thought Eddie Brock was becoming unpopular so he started up the idea that Michelinie originally had planned for Amazing Spider-Man #400 with the Symbiote jumping hosts. Millar told me that he settled on the Scorpion because he thought he was the next person that suited the Symbiote best because of his animal personality.

Oh I have NO problem with venom going onto Mac Gargan. I was merely talking about the "Look" of the symbiote. kinda reminded me of a killer whale. I guess I just don't like the idea of eyes in the white eyes.

However something that does bother me with they way the Venom, well ANY of the symbiotes are written is that thay are these voracious killing machines. I think that they shouldn't be like that at all. In fact way they write them they are more like a parasite. Personally I believe that they symbiotes shouldn't have emotions or want to kill etc. they are simply an organism that must bond with another organism for survival. HOWEVER they could always say that they boost the emotions of a creature too so that yes if you have criminal/violent tendencies they boost that as well. But I don't like they way they are trying to make Mac Gargan seem like a "nicer guy" and its the suit that the bloodthirsty one.
I mean when Spidey wore the suit for those first few months that he had it it never made him EVIL so why should it do it to everyone else? UNLESS they are bad to begin with. I'd love to hear Millars take on something like that.

Black Atom

05-27-2008, 10:00 PM

These statements in no way reflect the totality of Spider-Man fans, and solely represent the views of the poster. Any similarity between these views and other fans is purely coincidental.

Mark Millar's Spider-Man -- bleech!

Have to agree. No idea why the story is as highly regarded as it is.

Mister Mets

05-27-2008, 10:21 PM

Have to agree. No idea why the story is as highly regarded as it is.I love the story, but I'll give a few reasons.

- Mary Jane's portrayed as a strong character, capable of standing up to Norman Osborn.
- It reconciles the disparate elements of Spider-Man's existence into one twelve-part epic, borrowing heavily from some of the best Spider-man stories ever (a little "The Night Gwen Stacy died," a little "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man", etc).
- Venom becomes more dangerous.
- It could be adapted into a video game, which makes it more appealing for younger readers.
- The fight sequences are intense.
- It's got the major Spider-Man characters (Black Cat, Green Goblin, Venom, Dr Octopus, etc.)

It has a lot of other stuff going for it too.

cpahl2000

05-28-2008, 04:43 PM

I love the story, but I'll give a few reasons.

- Mary Jane's portrayed as a strong character, capable of standing up to Norman Osborn.
- It reconciles the disparate elements of Spider-Man's existence into one twelve-part epic, borrowing heavily from some of the best Spider-man stories ever (a little "The Night Gwen Stacy died," a little "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man", etc).
- Venom becomes more dangerous.
- It could be adapted into a video game, which makes it more appealing for younger readers.
- The fight sequences are intense.
- It's got the major Spider-Man characters (Black Cat, Green Goblin, Venom, Dr Octopus, etc.)

It has a lot of other stuff going for it too.

I agree with you. I was a good run, i loved Millar and Dodson´s collaboration and In my opinion, it could be a longer one.the story as you pointed showed the characters strong and vivid in a different way they used to be, Millar´s realistic style gave Spider-man a mature view which was one of the highlights of the tittle.

I loved the idea of a Marvel Knight tittle, which Marvel backed up later, not only with Spider-man but Wolverine and X-static too.

Alan2099

05-28-2008, 04:59 PM

It was decent, it wasn't great. Ultimately I think the dropped the ball in far too many places. I'm just not a fan of Millar. He has more misses than hits if you ask me, and even his "hits" aren't really that great.

JGC

09-02-2008, 10:10 PM

After having left the Spider-Man books for 10 years, I recently came back when BND started. I've been reading the message boards and have been enjoying the pro-BND vs. anti-BND arguments. I haven't seen this much emotion about Spider-Man since the clone saga.

That being said, the recent NWTD storyline got me curious about the new Venom: Mac Gargan. When I left the books, Venom was an anti-hero named Eddie Brock. I decided to find out about the Mac Gargan Venom and bought the Marvel Knights Spider-Man HC (containing #'s 1-12) by Mark Millar, Terry Dodson/Frank Cho. I read the whole thing last night and let me say, it was horrible! And people think BND is bad.... Here's why I hated it

*brace yourself, severe negativity*

First off, the opening battle between Spider-Man and the Green Goblin makes no sense. Apparently, Norman got "bored" and took hostages at a bank just so he could lure Spider-Man out to kill him? What? Since when is Norman Osborn the Shocker? Norman Osborn is supposed to plot evil schemes to drive Spider-Man insane and break him down. He doesn't blow up banks to fight Spider-Man. Perhaps Normie Osborn Jr. gave his grandfather this brilliant plan.... And the way Spidey beat the Green Goblin (hitting him with a mail box) was just too easy. And here's what Spidey said, direct quote: "Who's your daddy now, Green Goblin?" Ugh.

It just got worse from there. Mac Gargan (The Scorpion) kidnaps Aunt May and starts harrassing Peter because Norman Osborn told him to. Thing is, Spidey doesn't know who kidnapped Aunt May at first so he goes to to the Raft to visit Norman because he suspects him and he basically tells Spider-Man the whole plot: "what if because you put me in jail, I told your secret ID to one of your deadliest enemies and they're harrassing your loved one's as a failsafe to break me out?" As a reader, there's no way you believe this because it's issue #2 - there's still 10 more to read. But as it turns out, that's exactly what the whole big plot is. @#%$& me!

For the next 7-8 issues we get out-of-character interactions between Spidey/Avengers, Spidey/The Owl, X-Men/and other X-Men.... it was really hard to take serious. This story felt like an 'elseworlds' project or something. Millar really cranked up the sexual tension between Black Cat and MJ, which again just felt forced. Enough already, Peter married MJ. The Black Cat ship sailed long ago.

The constant barrage of classic villains was overwhelming aswell. And their costume redesigns were awful. Was that Terry Dodson's idea? Shame on him! The Green Goblin looked like a court jester. The Vulture dressed in black was so wrong, his suit is green. Electro's mask sticking to his face when he fired electricity looked stupid. Doc Ock with no shirt and long wrestler hair made me laugh. Then there's Venom - the reason I bought this craptastic book. So, Eddie Brock sells the symbiote to Don Fortunato's 140lbs son? So Venom is now in the mob? Was this story even edited? Venom/Fortunato gets killed 2 seconds later. So, the symbiote doesn't go back to Brock. Or Electro, or Vulture or even Jameson - all people who despise Spider-Man. It chooses Mac Gargan? Why would it choose this skinny, bald headed, weakling? By doing so, Millar killed one of the greatest Spidey villains ever - the Scorpion.

Needless to say, I absolutely hated this story. The cliched dialogue, the useless fight scenes, the sheer disrespect of classic characters has forced me to throw this book into the recycling bin. Not even the mega-brew-haha battle royal at the end with Spider-Man against every villain can save this story. You know why, because the Avengers show up to save the day. Yay! Venom/Gargan gets away and I'm assuming joins the Thunderbolts with Norman.

The ASM relaunch has been way better than this dreck. If I have to choose between Millar's Great Spidey tale vs. Brand New Day, I choose BND. I just pray Millar doesn't get invited to join the Spidey braintrust.

West Mantooth

09-02-2008, 10:43 PM

My brother was buying this for a while and I remember reading it and thinking that Millar sucks balls. The Dodsons art was great from what I remember, but that didn't cover the craptastic story. His Spidey arc is rarely mentioned anymore.

I'm not sure what happened to him. Everyone claims he wrote this great Superman Adventures, but he has evolved into someone that really only does cliche jerks and one-note "widescreen" action sequences. His Ultimates and Ultimate X-Men were fantastic but everyone on the team was a jerk or shades of grey.

His Ultimate Fantastic Four was what finally turned me off to Millar. Civil War sucked.He talks about how a lot of comic writers are going to Hollywood then he needs to. That's all his comics are now anyways.

Jim Thompson

09-03-2008, 05:25 AM

Grapeweasel

09-03-2008, 06:18 AM

Add me to the list of people oblivious to the charms of Mark Millar.

AbdulAziz

09-03-2008, 08:40 AM

This has quite a few positive reviews on Amazon.com. For those of you who have read it, is it all worthy of all this hype?

And how is the art in it?

Thanks in advance.
*The stories has the power in them, they're fun and not too heavy with magic stuff or sad stories, Spider-Man make some good quips and he is not a sore loser, but a great combatant.

*Art: Terry Dodson's art is great, but the faces look like they belong to a Disney movie. The second artist drew much better faces

*Rating in general: 9.3/10

rescura

09-03-2008, 08:56 AM

The Spidey X Electro fight is so cool and well done by the artist...
And the plot is nice too, the whole Vulture money thing, it shows Spidey as the real hero he is and not just getting beaten up or punching out...

That said, I don't like Millar much too (at least his job on the 616-line), he tends to artificialy throw polemic all around his stuff, and leave plot point unexplored (Civil War comes to mind)

Sonicjuce

09-03-2008, 09:00 AM

I thought Millar's Spider-Man arc was terrible as well, but there are many people here who would tell you it's one of the better arcs to come out in the past few years.

After a first read I loved it. I went back about two years after and re-read it. It was horrible. To coincidental for my blood.

I am not a huge Miller fan. I am, however, loving his current run on Fantastic Four. I also loved Ultimates 2. I could not stand the delays so I bought it when they released it in the trade. I've read it 3 or 4 times and love it more each time.

Hated civil war though.

ShaggyB

09-03-2008, 10:24 AM

This has quite a few positive reviews on Amazon.com. For those of you who have read it, is it all worthy of all this hype?

And how is the art in it?

Thanks in advance.

Im guessing you mean the hardcover that collects issue 1-12 of Marvel Knights spider-man.

Id give it a C to C+.

You will be treated to Black Cat and Spidey trying to figure out who kidnapped aunt may. Prime suspect Norman.... but hes in jail????

You will then read "Venomous" where in Eddie sells the suit to the mob.

and you will be treated to "The Last Stand" wherein Gargain becomes Venom, Spidey breaks norman out and Green Goblin returns to attack MJ. Oh yeah and what happened to May is revealed.

Good reads. Decent happenings, although other than Venom im not sure how much of it was in 616 cannon. Spidey goes to what seems to be his 10 year high school reunion. He also states Norman's Age (Do we know how old norman was in his first appearance? Hes 55 in Last Stand)

edit-

i got all 1-22 of MK Spider-man for under twenty on ebay, so the hardcover is a bit steep in price in my book

yadadaimhollaing

09-03-2008, 11:12 AM

Im guessing you mean the hardcover that collects issue 1-12 of Marvel Knights spider-man.

Id give it a C to C+.

You will be treated to Black Cat and Spidey trying to figure out who kidnapped aunt may. Prime suspect Norman.... but hes in jail????

You will then read "Venomous" where in Eddie sells the suit to the mob.

and you will be treated to "The Last Stand" wherein Gargain becomes Venom, Spidey breaks norman out and Green Goblin returns to attack MJ. Oh yeah and what happened to May is revealed.

Good reads. Decent happenings, although other than Venom im not sure how much of it was in 616 cannon. Spidey goes to what seems to be his 10 year high school reunion. He also states Norman's Age (Do we know how old norman was in his first appearance? Hes 55 in Last Stand)

edit-

i got all 1-22 of MK Spider-man for under twenty on ebay, so the hardcover is a bit steep in price in my book

nice buy. i bought issues 5-41 off the rack at my lcs and bought 1-4 for about $5 a piece

i liked this story and ive just been re-reading this series. i like the art but as been said before i dont like the costume redesign for venom. i loved how the mob kid was just too soft for the symbiote so he seperated from the kid and left him to fall to his death.