Ogdru Jahad, God, and Earth (spoilers)

[Conrad Gray]

Please spoil some backstory for me.

Cosmologically speaking, just why were the Ogdru Jahad created (presumably by God), how do they fit in with Heaven and Hell, and are they a "third force" distinct from the forces of good (presumably Heaven) and Hell?

[Neil Hill]

For the answers you seek, look no further than The Island #2. Mike explains quite a bit of the Hellboy universe cosmology in that great series- and specifically in that issue.

[Conrad Gray]

Hm. Well, I know that you'd all rather I read the book instead of asking for detailed explanations here, but could someone at least tell me if it's explained if Hellboy is in a universe in which that the dichotomy of Heaven and Hell, and God against Satan exist? Or is it the forces of Heaven against the Lovecraftian Ogdru Jahad?

[el seth]

It's complicated, and the things that are revealed in The Island #2 are not totally definitive. It's kind of both. Here's a summery of what goes down:

First there was God (as usual.)

God created a number of spirits to look over the then-barren Earth.

The greatest among them became bored and in his hubris fashioned the body of the Ogdru-Jahad. The other spirits helped as well if I recall. I don't have my issue with me. Anyway.

Then the important bit: The Void/Chaos/Nothingness fills up the Dragon giving it purpose and a life.

The spirits are freaked the hell out. The greatest of them, the one who made them, uses his power to seal it and cast it into the void. The other spirits turn on him after this is done and destroy him. Then the go to war with the Ogdru-Jahad's children and blast them into the Earth or the sea or wherever.

God finally shows up and is pissed. He casts all the spirits into the Earth, where some become devils and some become monsters and some perhaps become the first great race of Man.

So there are Devils in Hell, and they're bad and opposed to God. I'm not really sure if they want to bring about the Apocalypse for it's own sake or because like the pagan creatures they want a new world to rise from the ashes. Then there's Chaos itself, which is about as bad as you can get, but is sort of a more abstract form of evil. Of course, this all takes place in a world that in a certain way is essentially Catholic but with a God whose power is only seen really through the works of his human servants.

Also, keep in mind that at the end of The Island a dead Catholic priest tells the person who relays this secret history that he's wrong somehow, so this might perhaps be only one interpretation. You should read The Island anyway, it's a great read and the way Mike ties together Lovecraft, Paganism and Catholicism is really quite well done and beautiful. You can find it the the Strange Places collection in any bookstore.

[Neil Hill]

Hm. Well, I know that you'd all rather I read the book instead of asking for detailed explanations here, but could someone at least tell me if it's explained if Hellboy is in a universe in which that the dichotomy of Heaven and Hell, and God against Satan exist? Or is it the forces of Heaven against the Lovecraftian Ogdru Jahad?

Not to seem mean here, but is it too much to ask that you read the comic first? It would be different if you had read the book and then wanted to discuss what you'd read Conrad, but it looks like you're asking us to speculate for you. As no official explanations have been given beyond what's in the comic and maybe a smattering of interviews, personally I think you'd be better served by reading the comic first and then coming back with any questions.

[Conrad Gray]

Okay, will do, the summary I've just read is good enough for my initial questions, just one last question-

Does Satan or Lucifer ever appear in the Hellboy comics? I thought it's hinted that he's supposed to be Hellboy's father. In any case, he doesn't seem to be the Judeo-Christian (and hence Catholic) Satan, since the devils are apparently more of the "destroy Earth type" of popular conception than the "tempt and mess with humanity to steal their souls" type.

Additionally, el seth, what were you referring to when you mentioned Chaos?

[E. Spears]

I think when el seth mentioned chaos he meant a lack of order.

Satan does not appear in the comics. Hellboy's father does, but it's never said if it's "the" devil or "a" devil. At various times I think that Mike said that Hellboy's dad is a devil rather than the devil, but it's not explicitly stated in the comics.

I don't think there's really a set heaven/hell dichotomy in the comics. To me, that would be terribly uninteresting.

el seth - I thought that it was the Ogdru Jahad itself that created the Ogdru Hem (the various beasties and ghoulies imprisoned in the earth)? I haven't read the issue in ages, so I could be wrong, myself.

[ZombieHound]

Where do the frog monsters fall under in this category? It seemed as though only the children of the Ogdru-Jahad have the ability to start plagues of frogs. Sadu-Hem morphed the Cavendish brothers, and eventually with the help of the doomsday priest, converted an entire town's population. Kathe-Hem had an even greater influence, as merely its breath transformed the people into frog monsters.

The children of the Ogdru-Jahad rely on the frogs/frog monsters to mark their comings - which is why I still have theories about that jellyfish from Plague of Frogs. Are the frog monsters the "gate keepers" of the hell prison containing the children of the Ogdru-Jahad?

[Donald]

I think the Frog monsters are the earthly agents of the Ogdru-Jahad and all his Ogdru-Hems, like the Deep Ones in Cthulhu. The Ogdru-Hems aren't in a hell dimension, they were scattered to the winds or locked in the earth, needing the Frogs to free them. I think the Devils what to free Ogdru-Jahad because they think they can control his power.