Jason Todd/Batcave question

[Fallman]

I can't believe I just realized this...

Why does Jason Todd still have a memorial in the Batcave if he isn't dead anymore?

[wes_rk]

I guess it was in hush, when Batman realized Jason wasn't dead, Alfred asked him if he was going to take down the Robin costume/memorial, and Batman said that Jason being alive didn't change anything.

something like that, please someone complete the scene, I haven't read those books in a while.

[Buried Alien]

Although Jason Todd is alive once again, the Jason Todd who was Robin - who still had a conscience and some sense of moral responsibility - is still dead. During his first lifetime, Jason had some morally dubious moments (that apparent killing of the diplomat's son being the most infamous), but he was never then as far gone as he is now.

It's probably symbolic; the "good" Jason, or at least the less severely flawed one, remains dead.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Paul Dee]

I guess it was in hush, when Batman realized Jason wasn't dead, Alfred asked him if he was going to take down the Robin costume/memorial, and Batman said that Jason being alive didn't change anything.

something like that, please someone complete the scene, I haven't read those books in a while.



That's spot-on actually, although its not in Hush. It's in an issue of Batman around the time of the Red Hood stuff. The issue's called something like "Show Me Tomorrow for I Cannot Remember today" and on the cover it says "A Robin's Tale". It's collected in one of the Under the Hood trades.

[Choppa]

Why wouldn't he? He still died so it makes sense for Bruce to keep it

[NightBird]

I think the memorial is more about when Jason was Robin and who he was then, not so much to do with the fact that Jason died.

[Rupertmetal]

I think Batman keeps it up because he got killed by the Joker. Like a daily reminder to not ever let that happen again, which is why I think he should kill Joker but whatever haha. Tim Drake getting abducted by Joker in that recent Detective Comics should be to close of a call for Batman in my opinion.

Does Batman have other suits up in the cave? Like Batgirl I's or Robin I's?

[Super Buddies Forever]

Of course, Batman doesn't really know that Jason actually died. Hell, neither does Jason. You'd think either one of them would try to continue to investigate that nagging little detail.

[Choppa]

Of course, Batman doesn't really know that Jason actually died. Hell, neither does Jason. You'd think either one of them would try to continue to investigate that nagging little detail.

Isn't that what Batman was doing for the first part of the Under the Hood story? Trying to figure out how Jason could have come back from the dead? I guess what you mean is that he just stopped trying to know why before he got an answer.

[The Xenos]

What's all this about Jason Todd being alive? What? I can't hear your. Hush? What's that? Didn't hear a woid you're saying.... La la la la la...

[yourverysilly]

What's all this about Jason Todd being alive? What? I can't hear your. Hush? What's that? Didn't hear a woid you're saying.... La la la la la...
__________________
Xenos

Well said!

[Doesitmatter]

I'm not buying Jason and I'm not buying Bucky.

[The Xenos]

I'm actually going to start buying Bucky/Winter Soldier. Then again, I think Brubaker can write superheros and especially superheros in a noirish superspy vein which fits the story.

I stayed away from Brubaker's cap because I hear the Bucky thing and thought it was stupid. Yet the more I hear about it, the more I wish I had been picking it up. So I told my shop I'm going to start picking up the book. After all the mainstream coverage, my shop still had an extra copy and was nice enough to give it to me. I told the owner how I was kicking myself that I wasn't following Brubaker despite liking his other books. Hopefully I can get trades or back issues. Off hand, all he could find was a hardcover and I'm more partial to softcover trades except in special cases.

Meanwhile, I can't stand any issue of Hush, the Red Hood, or the ressurected Jason Todd. I kept buying hoping to see that this was all a trick. Nope. Jason's back and it's the stupidest ressurection ever. Superboy Prime retcon punched reality and thus Jason's back. UGH.

I'll buy whatever conspiracy Brubaker cooked up compared that this Jason Todd crap Winick's made.

If it wasn't for McDaniel's art and seeing him draw Batman again, I would have dropped Green Arrow due to Todd's cameo in it.

Oh and guess what! Jason Todd might donning the mantle of Red Robin from Kingdom Come. Not only do we have DiDio's slip of the tounge at the NY Comic Con, but we have promo/cover art from this World War III featuring either Dick or Jason looking into the Jason Todd memorial.

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0701/25/worldwariii1c.htm

[Super Buddies Forever]

but we have promo/cover art from this World War III featuring either Dick or Jason looking into the Jason Todd memorial.

It's just the story of why he donned the Nightwing identity OYL. He's nude with his Red Hood costume in one hand and Dick's current costume in the other.

[Buried Alien]

What's all this about Jason Todd being alive? What? I can't hear your. Hush? What's that? Didn't hear a woid you're saying.... La la la la la...

You know, not *every* Jason Todd thread on this forum needs a gratuitous comment about how much some people wish Jason were still dead.

We get the point: some people don't like Jason Todd or that he was brought back to life. Do we HAVE TO read somebody's complaint about Jason every time the subject comes up?

Just something to think about...

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Captain Jim]

Hmm, I got a chuckle out of it.

[Super Buddies Forever]

Considering that Jason's most defining attribute thus far was being the kid who readers payed to see get beaten to death with a crowbar, I think it's reasonable to see people still having issues with the whole thing.

Seriously, I'm of the mind that the problem is HOW they brought him back. Not only was it the most deusy of the deus ex machinas, but it had nothing to do with the Batman mythos. Yeah, the DCU is a grand connected place, but the defining events of Batman's life shouldn't be orchestrated by alternate teenage versions of Superman.

Had it been a less mystical ressurrection, or even if they had kept it an eerie mystery forever and ever, I think we'd all be more favorable towards this particular story arc. A pity too, because like Judd Winick I was seriously a-tingle when I suspected that Hush was actually Jason Todd.

[Choppa]

There is NO way to bring Jason back without destroying the mythos, that's what all the fuss is about, not how it was done.

[Noman]

I can't believe I just realized this...

Why does Jason Todd still have a memorial in the Batcave if he isn't dead anymore?

I think the thing that bothers me is why is it still the only memorial? I can see leaving it up as a reminder to himself of what happens if he fails his partners, but why then does he not have a memorial to Spoiler or even one containing Ted Kord's goggles that Sasha sent to him. He was just as responsible for their deaths as he was Jason's. Indirectly I mean.

Anyway just my two cents.

From NoMan

[Captain Jim]

Yeah, I agree with you about Stephanie. But I think DC wants the readers to forget about her.

[Noman]

Yeah, I agree with you about Stephanie. But I think DC wants the readers to forget about her.

I can't imagine why they would? She was a great character and her death is just as much a milestone in Batman's life as was Jason's. Especially since her death led to his permanent falling out with Dr. Leslie Thompkins.

But without a doubt the reason there is no tribute to Ted Kord is DC is hoping his fans will forget him. A memorial although logical considering Batman's perpetual survivor's guilt complex, would be a constant reminder to Kord fans (Of which I am one) of his demise.

Ok just my two cents for what it's worth

From NoMan

[TheWraith]

Although Jason Todd is alive once again, the Jason Todd who was Robin - who still had a conscience and some sense of moral responsibility - is still dead. During his first lifetime, Jason had some morally dubious moments (that apparent killing of the diplomat's son being the most infamous), but he was never then as far gone as he is now.

It's probably symbolic; the "good" Jason, or at least the less severely flawed one, remains dead.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

Yep.

I think DC wants us to forget about the stupid blunder they made with Leslie Thompkins, not so much Stephanie herself.

[Captain Jim]

I can't imagine why they would? She was a great character and her death is just as much a milestone in Batman's life as was Jason's. Especially since her death led to his permanent falling out with Dr. Leslie Thompkins.

Well, it's well known that the powers that be did not like the character. Hence their decision to kill her off.

[DonC]

Perhaps Jason Todd doesn't have a memorial in the cave. Robin II does.

[Kristofer]

Perhaps Jason Todd doesn't have a memorial in the cave. Robin II does.

that one makes the most sense to me...

[Slumber Hulk]

There is still that big golden "Superman with an Eagle" stutue in Metropolis from when Sups died.

[elias_A]

Well, it's well known that the powers that be did not like the character. Hence their decision to kill her off.

I remember Idelson (I think) saying that Stephanie's death was decided and prepared for years, probably since the time close to Officer Down when Batman told her Tim's secret identity and started training her himself for the first time.

So all the stuff that made her story so interesting and moving for me, like her desperatly wanting to be accepted and trained by Batman, was already done with her death in mind.
(Of course, that makes her death seem even worse executed.)

[TheWraith]

There is NO way to bring Jason back without destroying the mythos, that's what all the fuss is about, not how it was done.

Agreed http://forums.comicbookresources.com/images/icons/icon14.gif

[Captain Jim]

I remember Idelson (I think) saying that Stephanie's death was decided and prepared for years, probably since the time close to Officer Down when Batman told her Tim's secret identity and started training her himself for the first time.

So all the stuff that made her story so interesting and moving for me, like her desperatly wanting to be accepted and trained by Batman, was already done with her death in mind.
(Of course, that makes her death seem even worse executed.)

I don't think it was quite that far back. I think it goes back to the time when Dixon left Robin (and DC). She was his creation and was never particularly cared for by others.

[DavidAllred]

I can't believe I just realized this...

Why does Jason Todd still have a memorial in the Batcave if he isn't dead anymore?

I've been wondering why Jason Todd doesn't just go trash the Batcave. Or roll Bruce's yard? After all, he knows where it is. He knows how Bruce exits the Batcave. He knows Bruce's secret ID for that matter. Jason owns Bruce right now. If he wanted to, he could destroy the Dark Knight with a $120 digital camera, a cell phone, and the phone number of the local Gotham paper.

[SpaceBooger]

I've been wondering why Jason Todd doesn't just go trash the Batcave. Or roll Bruce's yard? After all, he knows where it is. He knows how Bruce exits the Batcave. He knows Bruce's secret ID for that matter. Jason owns Bruce right now. If he wanted to, he could destroy the Dark Knight with a $120 digital camera, a cell phone, and the phone number of the local Gotham paper.

I think that Jason still has love for batman (non gay way... the father son, unconditional love)

Jason knows that Batman tries his best to do whats right... he probably has an idea of how much grief batman went through since he was alive and with Talia. Jason is still the hot head he once was, i think he just wanted to get back at batman and blow off some steam not ruin him.