Anyone remembers "Pinocchio and The Emperor of the Night" and "Fire & Ice" (Bakshi)?

[Corky]

Two great underrated forgotten animated cult gems from the 80's! "Pinocchio and The Emperor of the Night" is a cool and very entertaining 1987 fantasy flick that is a sequel to the original story and it's done by Filmation (the dudes who brought you "He-Man", "She-Ra" and "Fat Albert"). It's about a mysterious carnival that comes to town, Pinocchio who just had his first birthday since his first adventure and became human he goes out to give a jewelery box to the mayor then gets swindled by a Racoon and a Monkey for a fake ruby, he's ashamed when he father found out he traded the box for a ruby that's pratically worthless. He runs away to join the carnival, he is turned into a puppet by the evil Puppetino but manages to escape for he joins up with the scoundrels that traded the box to get it back and go after the carnival for he ends up in the empire of the night where dreams might come true when it's actually a nightmare realm ruled by the evil Emperor of the Night.

A well animated and dark animated movie with a couple of good songs like "Love is the Light inside your heart" and my personal fave of the movie "You're a Star" which is just so damn catchy and a spectacular sequence. It's got the voices of James Earl Jones, Ed Asner, Rickie Lee Jones, Tom Bosley, Jonathan Harris, and Don Knotts, i remembered seeing this movie when i was 5 at a shopping mall theater on Christmas night in St.Louis on my last month there before moving to Omaha and my mom took me to see it, it scared the bejesus out of me especially when Pinocchio was changing into a Puppet (such a horrifying sequence for an animated movie). I found it at a pawn shop the other day and loved it again, i think it's now one of my top animated movies and worth seeking if you can find a copy if your into animation.

"Fire and Ice" is another great 80's underrated cult gem that i also watched when i was 5 back in 1987, it's an animated fantasy epic from Bakshi which is probably his best movie since "American Pop" about two realms which one of fire and one of ice are at war, the evil lord Neckron steals the beautiful princess Teegra for as warrior Larn and Batman-esque barbarian named DarkWolf to return her back then battel Neckron to end the war. It's also produced and designed by Frank Farzetta, this is a grand animated epic on a scale that should be missed by any animation fan.

[Captain Trips]

I used to have "Fire and Ice" on VHS, but that was years ago. I have always been a fan of Bakshi, having seen "American Pop," "Hey Good Looking" (which has a disturbing fight scene between a father and son), "Cool World," and his version of "Lord of the Rings" (which ends at the battle of Helm's Deep). "Fire and Ice" is pretty good, and some of the fight scenes are really well done. And that Teegra was pretty damn hot for a cartoon character.

[rick]

Fire & Ice was badly written by two of my very favorite comicbook writers and has some of the very worst rotoscope animation of Bakshi's entire carrier, even with the Frazetta designs.

A terrible, terrible piece of hackwork that could only be loved by young children and nostalgic 30 something’s who remember it as being better then it really was.

Considering that this is the same director who managed to make Wizards, it is just horrible to see how badly he fell for awhile there.

Of course he made it all up with Mighty Mouse a few years later, but still, that film just sucked.

[maczero]

Fire & Ice was badly written by two of my very favorite comicbook writersSadly, I have to agree. I watched it for the first time last week. Although I appreciate the fan service (Teegra had back:D) and the well animated fight scenes, there wasn't much more to this film. Still I would encourage serious animation fans to watch it.

[Buzz Dixon]

Fire & Ice was badly written by two of my very favorite comicbook writers and has some of the very worst rotoscope animation of Bakshi's entire carrier, even with the Frazetta designs.

A terrible, terrible piece of hackwork that could only be loved by young children and nostalgic 30 something’s who remember it as being better then it really was.

Considering that this is the same director who managed to make Wizards, it is just horrible to see how badly he fell for awhile there.

Of course he made it all up with Mighty Mouse a few years later, but still, that film just sucked.Frazetta purportedly punched Bakshi out at one point in the proceedings re FIRE & ICE, though by the time the documentary FRAZETTA: PAINTING WITH FIRE was made they (apparently) had patched things up.

[dazzler_slave]

Fire & Ice was badly written by two of my very favorite comicbook writers and has some of the very worst rotoscope animation of Bakshi's entire carrier, even with the Frazetta designs.

A terrible, terrible piece of hackwork that could only be loved by young children and nostalgic 30 something’s who remember it as being better then it really was.

Considering that this is the same director who managed to make Wizards, it is just horrible to see how badly he fell for awhile there.

Of course he made it all up with Mighty Mouse a few years later, but still, that film just sucked.

I think that's an overly harsh review. I really like the movie. I loved it as a kid, and bought the DVD when it came out. It didn't disappoint. It's some good, old fashioned fantasy, and there's nothing wrong with that. The animation is excellent as well.

[Corky]

You know, you are right! Teegra is smokin' for a toon.

Who else seen the other animated movie?

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i loved bashki's "streetfight" with tubbs from miami vice doing the voice of rabbit. will checkout fire & ice, i barely remember it.

[lboinyamouf4sho]

i loved bashki's "streetfight" with tubbs from miami vice doing the voice of rabbit. will checkout fire & ice, i barely remember it.

[Pro]

For its time Fire and Ice was a pretty good animation. I tend to dismiss people who look back at old films and crap all over them just because they don't hold up to today's standards.

[dazzler_slave]

For its time Fire and Ice was a pretty good animation. I tend to dismiss people who look back at old films and crap all over them just because they don't hold up to today's standards.

I do to. Context is always important.

[Tish-the-Scorpion]

is that Pinocchio movie the one where he gets drunk?....if so i vaguly remember seeing it somewhere (the movies i think)

[Corky]

Yes it is the movie where Pinocchio goes into a Las Vegas-esque hellish realm where kids do nothing but party down and drink, there was a scene where he drinks something that probably tasted like crap then his eyes go wrong for he hallucinates as he sees the kids turn into melting laughing demons that surround him, that was a scary sequence. And the scariest part that i still find chilling was the absoultely horrifying sequence where Pinocchio is under the control of a puppeteer's magic music box and changes into a puppet for he's being tortured and changes slowly, i dunno how this flick got a "G" rating instead of a "PG" rating cause the movie was too damned dark to get the "G" rating. Same thing with "Last Unicorn" and "The Secret of NIMH" which got "G" ratings instead of "PG", the movie is quite trippy and very "Rock and Rule"-esque.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I have vague remembrances of the Pinocchio flick, i recall a really disturbing telling of that puppet.

But I have to agree that Fire & Ice doesn't really live up to my memories of it. I used to watch it 4 times a week at least on VHS when I was younger. I'd been on a quest to find it again because it was out of print for so long. When it finally came out on DVD I watched it a few times and realized the story was weak at best. The character designs and alot of the animation was pretty stellar, but it was sometimes very incoherent.

[DLFerguson]

For its time Fire and Ice was a pretty good animation. I tend to dismiss people who look back at old films and crap all over them just because they don't hold up to today's standards.

Agreed. Bakshi's work tends to be hit or miss. Either you get it or you don't. FIRE AND ICE isn't my favorite as I don't think he made a better movie than AMERICAN POP and I'm in the minority who actually liked his LORD OF THE RINGS a lot.

[Corky]

[QUOTE=Your Imaginary Pal;4543114]I have vague remembrances of the Pinocchio flick, i recall a really disturbing telling of that puppet.

Did anyone found the scene where Pinocchio changes back into a puppet no thanks to Puppetino horrifying? that scene freaked me out of as a young one but not anymore even though it gives me the chills still. And anyone thinks the idea of a human boy getting the hots for a girl puppet is quite disturbing? and who else thought the Emperor himself was an awesome creature and that Puppetino looks kind of like a cross between Mok from "Rock & Rule" and Mick Jagger?

[rick]

For its time Fire and Ice was a pretty good animation. I tend to dismiss people who look back at old films and crap all over them just because they don't hold up to today's standards.


No, you've got it wrong.

Today’s standards have nothing to do with it.

That film didn't hold up to the standards of the time, let alone Bakshi's earlier work.

I was in my 20 when it came out and saw it in the theater and it just looked bad.

The film is jumpy, disjointed, with way to many moments of incomplete and just plain amateurish art and some really terrible rotoscoping.

Plus the story was simplistic and predicable. Sure American Pop and Heavy Traffic, let alone Coonskin don't really hold up that well today either but they were at least about something.

Still, at least Wizards is great fun even if it is a direct steal from Wally Wood.