DC's Definitive Joker Origin

[DWEarhart]

From wizarduniverse.com.

Denys Cowan will be penciling it for a future Batman:Confidential storyline.

Speaking of shocking stories, Denys, in Batman Confidential, you’re penciling a story fans have been waiting for forever—the origin of the Joker! How do you feel about that?

COWAN: I feel incredibly fortunate to be doing it. It’s one of those things where BET Animation is a full-time job. So I’m doing it literally in the hour that I have before I hang out with [my family] or the hour before I have to go to work or whatever, and so it’s been a long process. DC Comics has been incredibly patient with me. That being said, I think that it’s a privilege to be working on the character. Batman is one of my favorite characters and the Joker is the Joker we know. I’m working with a writer named Michael Green. Michael Green is executive producer and one of the writers of NBC’s “Heroes.” He and I got together and came up with the story, and I’m drawing it. It’s as simple as that, and I get a chance to contribute to Batman history. It’s so cool!

HUDLIN: Once again, people forget that a big part of “Batman Begins” is based on characters and foundations that Denys laid down years ago. I mean, those middle years between the death of Bruce Wayne’s parents and the time when he became Batman, those storylines came out of Denys.

COWAN: Yeah, it was a series that Sam Hamm and I did. It was Detective Comics’ 50th anniversary. So what we did was come up with the character of [Henri] Ducard, who’s played by Liam Neeson. All of that stuff with [Batman] training in the monastery and him working with ninjas and all of that stuff was Sam and I. So they got that right from those books. So, thank you very much “Batman Begins.” I was privileged to be in the right place at the right time.

From newsarama.com

NRAMA: Are you drawing anything nowadays?

DC: I'm working on a project with [DC editor] Mike Carlin. I've made him suffer for months now. It is so late. But basically it's for Batman Confidential. It's a four issue story arc which is the origin of the Joker. I kiddingly call it Joker: Year One. It is really the origin of Joker and it is written by a writer named Michael Green who is a television writer out here in Los Angeles.

NRAMA: Is it taking anything from The Killing Joke?

DC: It really isn't. It's really about who was the Joker before he became the guy with the green hair and the white skin. What kind of person was he? What turned him into that? How did he and Batman really meet? The whole series is insane and really one of the best things I've ever read and certainly one of the best things I've ever had the pleasure of working on.

NRAMA: Who's inking that?

DC: We don't know. I'm old school; I'd like Tom Palmer or Klaus Janson to ink it. Tom inked me on Steel for about a year and I loved it. I don't know if I appreciated it as much as I should have. So I promised myself if I ever got the opportunity to work with Tom Palmer I would thank him from page one until the end of the series.

[shaxper]

We've gone sixty seven years without a definitive origin for Joker. If someone were to finally tell it, it should be a writer that's earned the privilage -- someone who could be trusted to handle the job with dignity and with respect to the writers and history that have come before. This guy wrote three issues of Batman in his entire career, and the television writer he's working with appears to have no history with comic books at all. This feels like the recent Flash relaunch all over again, except the Joker's definitive origin is on the line this time. Give me someone that has a real history with the character and has proven that he knows and respects the legacy. These guys have less of a right to tell the Joker's definitive origin than I do!

I haven't been this mad since Marvel decided to tell Wolverine's origin without even consulting Chris Claremont. I didn't buy or read "Origin," and I won't buy or read this. There are some stories better left untold (at least by the under-qualified).

[BeastieRunner]

Awesome. I wonder when it will come out? And it makes me sort of sad to see "The Killing Joke" go away from the history . . . :(

[Captain Jim]

I have no problem with an unknown author telling the story, as long as it's a really good story. Whether or not the Joker really needs an origin story is a different question. But since we seem to be getting one, I'm just hoping it's a good one.

I haven't read Killing Joke for a long time, but as I recall, I don't think that had a "definitive" origin. Didn't it say something about the Joker remembering it different each time? Or am I thinking of something else?

[DWEarhart]

I have no problem with an unknown author telling the story, as long as it's a really good story. Whether or not the Joker really needs an origin story is a different question. But since we seem to be getting one, I'm just hoping it's a good one.

I haven't read Killing Joke for a long time, but as I recall, I don't think that had a "definitive" origin. Didn't it say something about the Joker remembering it different each time? Or am I thinking of something else?

Nope. That's the one. Even Alan Moore recently reassured that The Killing Joke was not intended to be Joker's real origin. Lieberman last used Killing Joke as a reference in the latter issues of Gotham Knights.

[mattx110]

I have no problem with an unknown author telling the story, as long as it's a really good story. Whether or not the Joker really needs an origin story is a different question. But since we seem to be getting one, I'm just hoping it's a good one.

I haven't read Killing Joke for a long time, but as I recall, I don't think that had a "definitive" origin. Didn't it say something about the Joker remembering it different each time? Or am I thinking of something else?

yea, moore stressed that the joker was nuts enough to seek revenge for an artificial memory that comes out of his MPD, which i think is also an idea originating with killing joke. part of his insanity is he doesn't really know who he is, but he's got these sick fantasys that make up what he thinks is his "origin". so, it could be true, or not. it's up to whoever is writing at the time and what the editor feels like doing.

oh,and someone answered this quicker and more effectively than i did in the time it took me to click "reply".

but i would like an opinion on joker as a multiple personality case.

edit: oh, and i really like denys cowan, so idk, i might be able to forgive giving the job to some tv guy.

[rwe1138]

My favorite unofficial origin was sometime during the Silver Age. Basically, (and I'm recalling from memory here, so bear with me) the story said that Joker was the son of Leslie Tompkins, who had gone crazy after (accidently?) murdering his father. I thought it tied Leslie in even more with the Bat-universe. Both of her "sons" being mortal enemys.

[Captain Jim]

I'm not familiar with that version, but I don't think it could have been told during the silver age. Leslie wasn't yet created at that time.

[mattx110]

My favorite unofficial origin was sometime during the Silver Age. Basically, (and I'm recalling from memory here, so bear with me) the story said that Joker was the son of Leslie Tompkins, who had gone crazy after (accidently?) murdering his father. I thought it tied Leslie in even more with the Bat-universe. Both of her "sons" being mortal enemys.

i've got a short story based on that. umm that i own, not that i wrote.

it wound up coming down to a duel to the death with batman desperate to know if joker really was a thompkins.

[Buried Alien]

We've gone sixty seven years without a definitive origin for Joker. If someone were to finally tell it, it should be a writer that's earned the privilage -- someone who could be trusted to handle the job with dignity and with respect to the writers and history that have come before. This guy wrote three issues of Batman in his entire career, and the television writer he's working with appears to have no history with comic books at all. This feels like the recent Flash relaunch all over again, except the Joker's definitive origin is on the line this time. Give me someone that has a real history with the character and has proven that he knows and respects the legacy. These guys have less of a right to tell the Joker's definitive origin than I do!

I haven't been this mad since Marvel decided to tell Wolverine's origin without even consulting Chris Claremont. I didn't buy or read "Origin," and I won't buy or read this. There are some stories better left untold (at least by the under-qualified).

By those standards, however, only Bob Kane would be qualified to write the definitive origin of the Joker, which is kind of inconvenient because Mr. Kane is dead now.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[rwe1138]

I'm not familiar with that version, but I don't think it could have been told during the silver age. Leslie wasn't yet created at that time.

I've never actually read it, but it sounded kinda "Silver Agey" to me. Here's the description I originally read from Wikipedia:

In the short story "Best of All," featured in the anthology "The Further Adventures of the Joker," the Joker reveals that Leslie is his mother, and that she committed him to a mental institution as a child after he murdered his father, who was abusing her. The story is considered non-canon.

I don't know when that was made, but Leslie debuted in Detective Comics #457 published in 1976.

[Captain Jim]

Right; the 1960's are generally considered the "silver age."

[DWEarhart]

I've never actually read it, but it sounded kinda "Silver Agey" to me. Here's the description I originally read from Wikipedia:

In the short story "Best of All," featured in the anthology "The Further Adventures of the Joker," the Joker reveals that Leslie is his mother, and that she committed him to a mental institution as a child after he murdered his father, who was abusing her. The story is considered non-canon.

I don't know when that was made, but Leslie debuted in Detective Comics #457 published in 1976.


Those are, apparently, from this book (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0553285319/103-0459860-4114233?v=glance&n=283155). A collection of prose short stories; The Further Adventures of The Joker.

[Titanium]

If there has to be a definitive origin for the Joker, I would have it turn out he's completely sane and is completely competently aware of everything he has done.

[The Zapper]

This is a bad idea. We don't a "definitive" origin, in fact, it's better that we don't. It doesn't matter though. I'm sure no matter how good or bad, it will eventually be written off, perhaps as a possible origin like Killing Joke.

[TROUBLEZ]

The Joker should not have a definitive origin. He's supposed to be this unpredictable criminal who's completely insane, and no matter what, no origin will match what each individual reader subconsciously believes The Jokers origin to be.

[rwe1138]

Right; the 1960's are generally considered the "silver age."

Oops. I knew that. My bad. :o

[mattx110]

If there has to be a definitive origin for the Joker, I would have it turn out he's completely sane and is completely competently aware of everything he has done.

but that kinda thing would have to be the last joker story.

if he's unravelled, y'know, that usually means he's reaching a climax as far as his plans are going.

of course, you could add afew more decades by having batman drop him in somethig that really makes him nuts, but that might be seen as a cop-out.

[Arvandor]

Bad, bad idea. Giving him an origin, by some unknown most of us have never heard of, will reduce the Joker to being just another bad guy, rather than the insane force of nature, he is when written at his best.

[NotSuper]

Whether or not one agrees with the idea of giving The Joker a definitive origin, I'm pretty sure that everyone knew this story would eventually happen--it was inevitable. The only reason it didn't happen earlier is due to The Killing Joke being his unofficial origin for years. Frankly, it's one of the last truly big things DC can do (I'm not counting annual crossovers or killing off characters).

[Chris N]

If I'm gonna have an origin, I prefer it be multiple choice!

[PretenderNX01]

I haven't been this mad since Marvel decided to tell Wolverine's origin without even consulting Chris Claremont. I didn't buy or read "Origin," and I won't buy or read this. There are some stories better left untold (at least by the under-qualified).
I read it, wasn't really worth it. Its at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine_%28comic%29#Wolverine:_Origins)if anyone's interested. Basically Wolverine is this sickly boy James Howlett and Logan is a kid he knows. Thats the problem with new origins is that they want you to be "surprised" so they throw out everything ever said about the characters and make up new stuff and it just ends up lame in my opinion.

I bet they don't include Red Hood even though it's been established for decades just because they want their origin to be original and "shocking".

Whether or not one agrees with the idea of giving The Joker a definitive origin, I'm pretty sure that everyone knew this story would eventually happen--it was inevitable. The only reason it didn't happen earlier is due to The Killing Joke being his unofficial origin for years. Frankly, it's one of the last truly big things DC can do (I'm not counting annual crossovers or killing off characters).
Can they quit doing big things and do good things?

[OverMaster]

If there has to be a definitive origin for the Joker, I would have it turn out he's completely sane and is completely competently aware of everything he has done.

Really bad idea. That would outright contradict every Joker appearance from the last few decades and would make no sense.

[Titan76]

I read it, wasn't really worth it. Its at Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolverine_%28comic%29#Wolverine:_Origins)if anyone's interested. Basically Wolverine is this sickly boy James Howlett and Logan is a kid he knows. Thats the problem with new origins is that they want you to be "surprised" so they throw out everything ever said about the characters and make up new stuff and it just ends up lame in my opinion.

Well given the fact that Wolverine's childhood and mid-teen years were never explore until Origins I would assume they would need to come up with some new things to tell the story because what else do they have. (And for the record I love Origins)

As for this Definitive Joker Origin DC is going to do I doubt it was last long so I don't see why anyone so get upset by this.

[Paul Dee]

Urgh. Completely unnecessary. Can't help but feel it'll come out aorund the same time as The Dark Knight too amidst all the Joker frenzy.

[Norrin Radd]

I love the Killing Joke "origin". Why improve on perfection?

[Choppa]

Isn't Confidential not even in continuity in the first place?

[Paul Dee]

Isn't Confidential not even in continuity in the first place?

No, it is. That's its main difference from the LOTDK title.

[Choppa]

^I see. Well I say so what? If you don't like it then just ignore it. To me, Long Halloween is what happens during Batman's second year, not what happened in Year Two. These things keep changing so much that it hardly even matters.

[Captain Jim]

No, it is. That's its main difference from the LOTDK title.

At least some of the LOTDK stories are also in continuity.

[Nintendite]

If I'm gonna have an origin, I prefer it be multiple choice!

Ding! Ding! We have a winner! The Joker doesn't care what his origin is, unless if it's what suits him at the time if he wants to whack somebody or prove one of his own twisted points. I've always thought of it as the Joker not remembering anything from before his becoming the Joker, only a few shards of memory. All that's certain was that he took a chemical bath at one point or another. Maybe he was the Red Hood, maybe he was just an ordinary Hood, maybe he was a struggling comedian distraught over the death of his wife, maybe he was a crime boss or a demented murderer. It doesn't matter, the Joker is (or was)whatever he wants to be at the moment. The "multiple choice" line from The Killing Joke sums up the Joker in a nutshell.

[DonC]

Just like Marvel did with Wolverine, DC is fixing something that isn't broken. Anything for a buck, I guess.

[Keehar]

Don't like the sound of this. Especially the bit about not taking anything from the Killing Joke.

[NotSuper]

Can they quit doing big things and do good things?
Since everyone has a different idea of what's "good," the answer to your question is no.

Incidentally, it seems that I didn't explain my definition of "big things" clearly enough in my last post. Basically, I mean a possible storyline, set-up by past events, that can be used at any time. The best example I can give of this is the Earth-2 Superman, Earth-2 Lois Lane, Alexander Luthor, and Superboy-Prime leaving the ironically named "Paradise." This was always a storyline DC could use and potentially create something big with it.

[dancj]

Urgh. Completely unnecessary. Can't help but feel it'll come out aorund the same time as The Dark Knight too amidst all the Joker frenzy.
I'd have thought if they've got any sense they'll do it a bit sooner so they can have the TPB out when the film comes out

[The Zapper]

I'm going to guess that it will be within five years after this story comes out, that it's retcond if it's bad, or somehow gets explained as another of Joker's multiple choice origins if it's good.

[Alan2099]

All already know the Joker's definite origin.

He's a crook that fell in chemicals during a confrontation and ended up kinda deformed and crazy.

Everything else, whether he was a big name crook or a small name, a mob boss or a comedian, that's just inconsiquential details.

[gunz]

as stated before, it really dosen't matter what orgin these guys give hime because the beauty of the joker is his insanity and he can be what ever he wants. So if this dosen't work, they can jsut say the joker made it up

I for one am from the class that thinks that the real secret behind the joker is he knows he's a comic book character, and that is why his exsistance, as well as everyone else's, is a joke.....get it?

[joint venture]

DC owes us a lot of money.

This Joker Origins is crap, a story everybody wanst to read by a someone no one wants to meet. I want ALL my money back.

capitalist commercial clowns = clown comic makers =clown origin

[Locue]

I'm not sure I'd like a "definitive origin" for the adorable pasty-face. I mean, liked the parts of Killing Joke that touched on (and partly told) his past but a definitive story with all the juicy facts laid out? Nah...

[Captain Jim]

DC owes us a lot of money.

How do you figure that?

[OverMaster]

I'll reserve an actual judgement on the story until I have, you know, READ it.

I mean, all other Batman villains can have clear, straight origins, why not the Joker? As long as it is a good story, I won't cry foul murder.

[Gary Joyce]

If the definitive origin of the Joker had to come out then i feel DC are wasting this on confidental.

Surely a better idea would have been a mini-series where you could have got some of the biggest names in the industry to give their take on the Jokers definitive origin and then tie them all together by being the story that the Joker remembered that particular day like he says he does in The Killing Joke.

[yourverysilly]

PLEASE for the love of god, don't let them do this. NO ORIGIN is one of the reasons why the joker so damn good.

[Babylon23]

I really don't care whether this becomes the definitive origin of the Joker or not. If it's a good story, then I'll appreciate it.

What I'm really fired up about is seeing Denys Cowan drawing comics again. Denys is a phenomenal artist, and responsible for the art on The Question, one of my all-time favourite series. He draws an excellent Batman.

[carabas]

DC are of their rocker.
I’m working with a writer named Michael Green. Michael Green is executive producer and one of the writers of NBC’s “Heroes.”
The frell? Did they learn nothing from the Wonder Woman relaunch and Ultimate Hulk/Wolverine?
You don't give comics projects to executive producers and writers on hit television series, period. And certainly not if it is a somewhat important story like the origin of the Joker. I mean, the guy's never even written a comic before, except some bits of the Smallville book.

Plus, as has been mentioned, why try and improve on 'The Killing Joke'? The Joker has got an origin, has had one for years. And the only ones that ever had a problem with it are the ones that believed he shouldn't have on at all.

[Andy S.]

Count me in as "we don't need a definitive origin". If anything, The Killing Joke sums it up for me - even if it is just a delusion in the Joker's mind.

I don't really care that much that they're doing this or hiring a Hollywood guy to write the story. But if other titles start referencing it as canon and it gets in the way of otherwise good stories, I'll be annoyed.

[dancj]

DC are of their rocker.

The frell? Did they learn nothing from the Wonder Woman relaunch and Ultimate Hulk/Wolverine?
You don't give comics projects to executive producers and writers on hit television series, period. And certainly not if it is a somewhat important story like the origin of the Joker. I mean, the guy's never even written a comic before, except some bits of the Smallville book.
But then JMS, Kevin Smith (on Daredevil at least), Jeff Johns and Geoff Loeb and Joss Whedon all managed to go from tv/film to comics very succesfully

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Awesome. I wonder when it will come out? And it makes me sort of sad to see "The Killing Joke" go away from the history . . . :(

my thoughts exactly, I thought "Killing Joke" was the canon Joker origin.

seems really unnecessary to retell it.

[DonC]

But then JMS, Kevin Smith (on Daredevil at least), Jeff Johns and Geoff Loeb and Joss Whedon all managed to go from tv/film to comics very succesfully


Back in the olden days of comics a writer had to earn the right to work on A-list characters. You started on someone like Aquaman, then worked your way up to Green Lantern, then you got to write Batman or Superman. I could be wrong, but what I think carabas is saying is this dude hasn't earned the right to work on the Joker.

[carabas]

But then JMS, Kevin Smith (on Daredevil at least), Jeff Johns and Geoff Loeb and Joss Whedon all managed to go from tv/film to comics very succesfully
JMS started out with Rising Stars and Midnight Nation, both critical successes at Image.
Kevin Smith started out on Daredevil, Green Arrow, and some books based on his films before graduating to Spider-Man.
Jeph Loeb started out on Challengers Of The Unknown and out of continuity Batman tales before being given the keys to the World's Finest. And never was much of a Hollywood type to begin with. Commando and Teen Wolf too?
Geoff Johns's only Hollywood work to date is on the recent Blade series. He started out on Stars é S.T.R.I.P.E. and a Beast Boy mini, and made the JSA a name again before he did Infinite Crisis.
Joss Whedon did do some well received Buffy work at Dark Horse before being given Astonoshing X-Men.

This Green guy, went straight from Smallville to the Joker's new origin.

[Captain Jim]

Jeph Loeb started out on Challengers Of The Unknown and out of continuity Batman tales before being given the keys to the World's Finest.

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. The Long Halloween was huge--much bigger than Superman/Batman IMO. And Loeb always insisted it *was* in continuity.

Geoff Johns's only Hollywood work to date is on the recent Blade series. He started out on Stars é S.T.R.I.P.E. and a Beast Boy mini, and made the JSA a name again before he did Infinite Crisis.

I know that's not right. Johns was doing Hollywood work before he ever began Stars & STRIPE. In fact, he is rather unique in that he dropped his Hollywood work in order to do comics full time.

I really don't think there's any rule here. I think this new guy was given the green light on the basis of an attractive proposal, not his Hollywood status. Besides, this is a special project; it's not like he's being given the monthly title or anything.

[Sean Whitmore]

All already know the Joker's definite origin.

He's a crook that fell in chemicals during a confrontation and ended up kinda deformed and crazy.

Everything else, whether he was a big name crook or a small name, a mob boss or a comedian, that's just inconsiquential details.

Absolutely right.

That's why people who despise Wolverine's origin being told confuse me. We've known Wolverine's origin for decades. He's a whacked-out mutant who was given an adamantium skeleton.

All Wolverine: Origin showed us was a forgettable episode from his adolesence that had little or nothing to do with making him the man he is today.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

The Long Halloween was huge--much bigger than Superman/Batman IMO. And Loeb always insisted it *was* in continuity.

He can insist all he wants, but his story contradicts any number other stories set in that same time period. Even without the question of Catwoman's heritage.

Which is not to say that Loeb's story is any less valid than the others...I just don't see why it should be any more valid, either.


SEAN

[Captain Jim]

Well, Loeb understands continuity a little different than most. He believes that while consistency in the big story is important, differences in details are inconsequential.

[mattx110]

Absolutely right.

That's why people who despise Wolverine's origin being told confuse me. We've known Wolverine's origin for decades. He's a whacked-out mutant who was given an adamantium skeleton.

All Wolverine: Origin showed us was a forgettable episode from his adolesence that had little or nothing to do with making him the man he is today.


SEAN

you noticed it too?

"we're gonna tell you he used to work with fury. we're gonna tell you he signed up for weapon X where he was given an adamantium skeleton. we're gonna tell you about his history with sabretooth and deathstrike and silver samurai, and tell you he likes cigars, and is from canada, and lived in japan, but we're not gonna tell you his origin!"

we know less about characters that have started up by having their origins published.

edit: though i do think it woulda been awesome if wolverine was a timetraveller sent to assassinate Xavier, with his memories of the future wiped clean and hypnotic triggers programmed.


ps. loeb does what he wants and tries to fit it in. if the story is good, well, i was kinda pissed about killing merkel, but by now the DCU has invalidated DKR as a potential future anyway. butloeb is one of the guys who lets his editor edit and tell him what doesn't work. for the halloween stuff, it was an LOTDK story. his current continuity stuff at marvel, there probably won't be many if any contradictions, but when it comes to batmans past, contradictions only makes it more fun.

[Sean Whitmore]

we know less about characters that have started up by having their origins published.

It's funny how the characters with "mysterious pasts" are always the ones who take up 3-4 pages in a Handbook entry. :)


SEAN

[niall mc cann]

Absolutely right.

That's why people who despise Wolverine's origin being told confuse me. We've known Wolverine's origin for decades. He's a whacked-out mutant who was given an adamantium skeleton.

All Wolverine: Origin showed us was a forgettable episode from his adolesence that had little or nothing to do with making him the man he is today.


SEAN

I agree with you almost completely, though i'd argue that Logan had an origin all along; Weapon X by BWS.

That's how you do a Wolvie origin story.

Just FTR, i have no beef with Origin. I thought it was an okay story. Another pretty good episode from Wolvie's forgotton past. But it's not an origin story in any respect but chronology.

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Wasn't the killing joke one shot, doing the same exact thing?

[stealthwise]

I really wish that DC had gotten Brubaker to write this story before he left for Marvel.

[Sean Whitmore]

I really wish that DC had gotten Brubaker to write this story before he left for Marvel.

Well, he got the first fight with Batman. Probably doesn't wanna get pegged as "the Joker guy". :)


SEAN

[carabas]

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment. The Long Halloween was huge--much bigger than Superman/Batman IMO. And Loeb always insisted it *was* in continuity.
But the three Legends Of The Dark Knight Halloween annuals he did in the years preceding The Long Halloween are another matter entirely.
The actual canoninity (that even a word?) of The Long Halloween is debatable.

I know that's not right. Johns was doing Hollywood work before he ever began Stars & STRIPE. In fact, he is rather unique in that he dropped his Hollywood work in order to do comics full time.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0424315/
I don't think that these meager credits are enough to state that Johns was ever a Hollywood type. Certainly not a Hollywood celebrity writer like Smith, whedon, or Heinberg or Lindeloff.

I really don't think there's any rule here. I think this new guy was given the green light on the basis of an attractive proposal, not his Hollywood status. Besides, this is a special project; it's not like he's being given the monthly title or anything.
See, that's the point. The origin of the Joker is a special project, not to be given to an untested rookie comics writer. Even Donner doesn't get full writing credits on Action Comics, but instead is partnered up with Johns.

[DonC]

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0424315/
I don't think that these meager credits are enough to state that Johns was ever a Hollywood type. Certainly not a Hollywood celebrity writer like Smith, whedon, or Heinberg or Lindeloff.


See, that's the point. The origin of the Joker is a special project, not to be given to an untested rookie comics writer. Even Donner doesn't get full writing credits on Action Comics, but instead is partnered up with Johns.

Geoff Johns worked with Richard Donner in Hollywood. It may not show on his IMDB page but that ain't shabby. And I would imagine that Johns does most of the writing on Action Comics while Donner is just there to add name recognition among longtime fans.

[IamBATFAN]

If i were Grant Morrison, i'd be pissed.

That aside, it really doesn't matter who's writing the story, if the story kicks @$$ no will care it was a "rookie" comic book writer, instead people will say "hey, this newcomer did a hell of a job".

I agree with the poster who said we already know his origin, he fell in a bat of acid and came out whacked out of his mind. What happens before is inconsequential because it has no bearing on how the character is acting now, the chemicals f'd up his brain, plain and simple.

It'll be great to know who he was before, what environment he grew up in and all that. I'm all for this story. If it turns out to be crap, so be it.

I doubt the story will be told as if the Joker himself is telling it so whoever was saying the Joker can make anything up concerning his past while true, in this case (if it's told this way) wont apply just like Origin wasn't told via Wolverine remembering it.

The only way i could truly despise this story is if he doesn't fall in the acid.

[Captain Jim]

I don't think that these meager credits are enough to state that Johns was ever a Hollywood type. Certainly not a Hollywood celebrity writer like Smith, whedon, or Heinberg or Lindeloff.

I never said he was a star, but that *was* his job at the time.


See, that's the point. The origin of the Joker is a special project, not to be given to an untested rookie comics writer.

And I don't follow your reasoning here. "Special projects" (one shots or mini-series) are given to newcomers all the time. I've never heard of half the people who create these things. Usually their sales sucks in comparison to the ongoing titles.

Even Donner doesn't get full writing credits on Action Comics, but instead is partnered up with Johns.

I'm sure that's because of Donner's schedule and the fact that this is all he *wants* to do.

[Captain Jim]

If i were Grant Morrison, i'd be pissed.

I don't see that at all.

That aside, it really doesn't matter who's writing the story, if the story kicks @$$ no will care it was a "rookie" comic book writer, instead people will say "hey, this newcomer did a hell of a job".

Absolutely right.

[Captain Jim]

Wasn't the killing joke one shot, doing the same exact thing?

Assuming that you're responding specifically to the immediately preceding post, I think the difference is that TKJ was never pegged as being primarily an "origin" story.

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

How many more origin stories do we need? Killing Joke was fine. I will be pissed, however, if the Joker is given a name - Hank Smith or something.

[Captain Jim]

Gosh, I hope it's not Hank Smith. ;)

[IamBATFAN]

I don't see that at all.

if there's anyone who can do crazy, it's Grant Morrison. This could've been the perfect assignment for him.

[Captain Jim]

Well, it's not like he hasn't had the chance. So if he wanted to do it, I'd say he's had plenty of opportunity.

[Choppa]

I still don't see the big deal about this. If you don't like it then just ignore it. There's hardly any strand of continuity or of a timeline in the books as it is, so it's not like it would affect anything. I seriously doubt that this will be integrated into the main stories like Wolverine's origin was for instance. I just make up my own timeline (which includes LH and DV as years 2 and 3 btw :D ).

[mattx110]

Gosh, I hope it's not Hank Smith. ;)

10 bucks says it JOhn KERry!

he wasn't a comedian down on his luck, but an almost president-elect fed up with batman and the american public!

gotham is totally liberal so i don't get why he started his criminal rampage there but i'll trust the writer to explain this.

[Super Buddies Forever]

I've never understood why the Joker's origin or identity needs to be a mystery. Yes, it should be to him. He's so warped that he can't recall his own life or how he came to be. However, it's ridiculous to think that Batman, the GCPD, the teams of lawyers that must have prosecuted the guy, and the staff of Arkham have no way of finding out where he came from.

The Killing Joke was a great story, but it was from the Joker's point of view. Seeing it as it actually happened won't change a thing. Hell, just call him Jack Napier and be done with it already.

[David Walton]

Because Joker represents primeval chaos to Batman's order, I think having his origin remain indefinite would be better. The fact that Batman can't determine what his exact relationship to the Joker is (and why would he have to been involved in Joker's origin at all?) is good. It's just one more reason why the Joker is such an incredible villain.

[Arvandor]

"I don't know him, Alfred. How can two people hate so much and not know each other?!"

That quote is another reason the Joker shouldn't have an origin.

[OverMaster]

"I don't know him, Alfred. How can two people hate so much and not know each other?!"

That quote is another reason the Joker shouldn't have an origin.

Who says us readers knowing the origin and Batman himself knowing it must be the same thing?

[yourverysilly]

so...I know this has been discussed before, but if they make a joker origin in batman confidential, well, I'm just going to have to burn DC to the ground. Any one seen that movie 300? it'll be like that, but with comic book fans vs DC (we win, of course). WE CANNOT LET THEM DO THIS.

[Paul Dee]

Bumpage.


From http://dccomics.com/comics/?cm=7612 :


BATMAN CONFIDENTIAL #7



http://dccomics.com/media/covers/7612_180x270.jpg


Written by Michael Green; Art and Cover by Denys Cowan and John Floyd

What kind of person becomes a Joker? Writer Michael Green (Heroes writer/producer) and classic Batman artist Denys Cowan shed light on who the Joker was before he became the Joker…and how he and Batman crossed paths even before the day he was created.

Batman | 32pg. | Color | $ 2.99 US

On Sale July 11, 2007


Hmm..I might buy this just for the art though. The idea of their paths crossig before the transformation just seems so lazy and, along with the cover, makes it seem like he's a criminal before he's the Joker which is an idea I've never really embraced. Unless it's a Killing Joke-style act of desperation.

[Captain Jim]

I guess I assumed this would be a multi-part story, but the solicitation makes it sound like a one-shot.

[SMMM]

why does he look like Dirty Harry?

[SomeDude]

They released a solicitation for #8 and say it's a 6 part story.

http://dccomics.com/comics/?cm=7795

"Part 2 of a 6-part Joker tale written by Michael Green (TV's Heroes)! Batman crosses paths once again with the punk who will become his deadliest foe — The Joker — in a Gotham City that seems to be increasingly more deadly and psychotic."

I'm wondering if this is going to be related to the movie in some way. We have Batman 663 changing his face to be more like the Ledger Joker image and now a story about his origin.

[Paul Dee]

I'm wondering if this is going to be related to the movie in some way. We have Batman 663 changing his face to be more like the Ledger Joker image and now a story about his origin.


Yeah, I thought this too. The Post-Infinite Crisis/OYL changes to Batman put it more in line with the movie so I wouldn't be surprised. Just seems a bit too soon to be potentially spoiling it though.