Wisdom #3 - Dragons, Shang Chi & The Welsh - Discussion and Spoilers.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Well, this week sees the release of #3 of Paul Cornell's Wisdom limited series. This a thread to discuss its contents, and as with the past few issues try to explain a few things to readers Stateside which might be a bit 'British' to understand. :D

So, before I start, let me make a few piointers. You will see throughout this issue that there are 'Soundtrack' notes, referencing music tracks, by certain artists. Well, if you want to know what these actually sound like then Paul has rather handily prepared an Imix for people to download at home. You can find it on his blog, here:

http://paulcornell.blogspot.com/2007/02/pete-wisdom-imix-and-oscar-bets.html

Secondly, I feel that at tis juncture I aught to explain to people from outside the UK the whole English-Welsh situation.

Well, okaym in reality I will not be able to do this here in any real detail, as we simply don't have the space, but let me say the following...:D

Wales is the Country to the West of England, in the UK. It's landscape is very much hills and valleys, and it has it's own language - Cymraeg (Or Welsh, if your not from Wales). The Welsh are very proud of holding onto this language, despite having been invaded by English and having become governed by them a good many hundred years ago.

If you go to Wales, and I (Like fellow poster Apocalypse Now Then! ) spent several years at University there, you will find everything from road signs to shop names written in Cymraeg first, and then in English. That's how it goes. Welsh (Cymraeg) is the spoken and written first language of the country.

This is why you will find Pete Wisdom and Dai Thomas (Old Excalibur fans will remember him...) having a conversation in Welsh outside the pub. Unfortunately, despite having lived there andwith a certain amount of embarassment, I do not speak the language. So I can't translate wjhat they were talking about to you. However, I know a few Welsh speakers, so I shall endeavour to get them to translate it for me.

The other major change with #3 is that Trevor Hairsine is off art duties, further than the cover. He has been moved elswhere by Marvel, and Manuel Garcia will be pencilling the rest ofd this series. a shame, but I don't feel that it lets this issue down.

This issue deals with the concept that The Welsh Dragon - the Country's national emblem - from the Welsh book of legends known as The Mabinogion (Which mixes in with Arthurian Legend) has been alive and well across the centuries in different forms. And this is the one it ends up in.

Guest starring Heroes for Hire's Shang-Chi.

Shang-Chi had a lot of British based stories back in the 70s, and I'm really happy to see that Cornell is showing more acknowledgment to these, as well as bringing Dai Thomas back, as well. Nobody has really seen him since the days of the original Excalibur. In fact I'm not sure he's appeared in panel since Sat-yr-9 revealed herself to be posing as Courtney Ross, at that dinner part at Braddock Manor. The one where Jamie Braddock killed Alysande Stuart...

Anyway, what did other people think? I'll try to post up a summary later.

What we do know from this issue is that Shag-Chi knows Maureen Raven's fate, Tink is well aware that Pete's ben having an affair with Maureen, and that Wisdom calls out Kitty Pryde's name in his sleep.

Thoughts? Feeings?

[Mikl C]

The welsh heart the letters y,c,g and m.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

The welsh heart the letters y,c,g and m.

An they're not to keen on vowels... :D

[FanboyStranger]

I think it was another good issue in a very solid series that seems to have gotten the short-shift by Marvel. It has the fun spirit that Alan Davis' runs on Captain Britain (at least, post-Moore; been getting a real Delano vibe from the last two issues) and Excalibur had, both with and without Claremont. Manuel Garcia is a capable enough artist, but where has Hairsine gone?

It also gave us just about everything that is cool about Shang-Chi in one issue, particularly that last warning to Maureen.

[Madrox84]

I don't have the issue yet :( Due to some delivery problems at my LCS...

But it sounds like a good issue. As soon as i have a copy i'll attempt to translate the welsh that appears in the dialogue... I can speak almost fluent welsh.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

I don't have the issue yet :( Due to some delivery problems at my LCS...

But it sounds like a good issue. As soon as i have a copy i'll attempt to translate the welsh that appears in the dialogue... I can speak almost fluent welsh.

I can post the two lines of dialogue in here, if you'd like?

But from an obvious spoiler point of view I won't if you'd rather I didn't.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

For any welsh speakers out there, the dialogue in question was:


Dai Thomas: Petawn I’n meddwl am eilad dy fod ti’n golygu unrhyw ran o hynny.

Wisdom: Tin’n gwybod nad ydw I, Dai, old friend



Hopefully that Spoiler proofed it.

[jarrod]

This is quite easily the best Xbook that nobody seems to be reading (eat it X-Factor). Hopefully Marvel's taking note though, and hands Cornell a regular series afterward... something mutant preferably, but I think I'd read about anything he does really.

Does Ultimate X-Men have a writer lined up to follow Kirkman? That might be a good move for Cornell, particularly since he's got Millar's backing. I'd piss myself if he got say, Astonishing, but I know he doesn't have the star power for that (yet).

[The Sword Is Drawn]

This is quite easily the best Xbook that nobody seems to be reading (eat it X-Factor). Hopefully Marvel's taking note though, and hands Cornell a regular series afterward... something mutant preferably, but I think I'd read about anything he does really.

Does Ultimate X-Men have a writer lined up to follow Kirkman? That might be a good move for Cornell, particularly since he's got Millar's backing. I'd piss myself if he got say, Astonishing, but I know he doesn't have the star power for that (yet).

I personally think that a book like Ultimate X-Men would be a great idea. Seriously, it was Mark Millar himself who put Cornell forward to Marvel. Like you say it's his backing.

We'd almost certainly see Ultimate Pete Wisdom, though... ;)

[jarrod]

We'd almost certainly see Ultimate Pete Wisdom, though... ;)
Hmm... actually, maybe Cornell should handle an Ultimate Captain Britian book instead (based around the European Captain Corps... maybe calling it "Ultimate Excalibur")? Might be a better way to intoduce Ultimate Widsom, plus bring in Ultimate Psylocke as an agent... quick, someone get me Millar's email!

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hmm... actually, maybe Cornell should handle an Ultimate Captain Britian book instead (based around the European Captain Corps... maybe calling it "Ultimate Excalibur")? Might be a better way to intoduce Ultimate Widsom, plus bring in Ultimate Psylocke as an agent... quick, someone get me Millar's email!

Ha ha! If you really want to bother him, go over to Millworld.tv and register on their forums. Don't know what response you'll get.

I don't think that the Ultimate Universe would neccesarily support another ongoing title of this kind, but certainly an limited seies might be interesting. The characters are already there with the European versions of The Ultimates. And certainly with the predicted change of tone whe Loeb revamps the book, it would be good to have something from the original concepts of The Ultimates survive.

[jarrod]

Ha ha! If you really want to bother him, go over to Millworld.tv and register on their forums. Don't know what response you'll get.
Just registered... only a matter of time before I'm bestowed posting privilages and the opportunity to chart Mr. Cornell's rise to stardom for him. :D



I don't think that the Ultimate Universe would neccesarily support another ongoing title of this kind, but certainly an limited seies might be interesting. The characters are already there with the European versions of The Ultimates. And certainly with the predicted change of tone whe Loeb revamps the book, it would be good to have something from the original concepts of The Ultimates survive.
Yeah, a mini's far more likely... I do think an Ultimate Excalibur book might generate a nice return though and would certainly raise Cornell's rep with it's association to the Ultimates.

I actually think I'd like them to steer clear of any overly direct UXM connections though... that may actually harm the concept imo.

[madrox1977]

Ok so here we go, the welsh section of speech in Wisdom is roughly translated as:

Dai Thomas:If i thought for one second that you meant any part of that

Wisdom: You no i'm not (more like..... you know i didn't), Dai, old friend

Dai is just welsh for David. Hope this doesnt spoil it for anyone

[mattbib]

This sounds pretty interesting. I may get this in trade after all.

[Sentinel K]

Best issue so far.

And I barely notices the change in artist. They're very similar. Although Garcia is probably tyring to emulate Harsine for continuities sake.

[Beast]

I hate to say I think this is the weakest issue so far. Mostly because Wisdom and his group barely factored into the storyline. It was more of a Shang-Ci comic, guest starring Wsdom's team. Beyond that, the story wasn't all that great either. I probably should have stuck with my guts and skipped this mini.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Just registered... only a matter of time before I'm bestowed posting privilages and the opportunity to chart Mr. Cornell's rise to stardom for him. :D

You know, Paul actually does post there himself, from time to time. You might catch him.


Yeah, a mini's far more likely... I do think an Ultimate Excalibur book might generate a nice return though and would certainly raise Cornell's rep with it's association to the Ultimates.

I actually think I'd like them to steer clear of any overly direct UXM connections though... that may actually harm the concept imo.

I think that in many wayus it could, yes. My only other query over an Ultimate Excalibur is that the concept of actual mysticism and magic is one which is avoided in the Ultimate line, specifically. The kind of Excalibur I like to see is the one that actually investigates weird shit happening. That might not be entirely possible.


Ok so here we go, the welsh section of speech in Wisdom is roughly translated as:

Dai Thomas:If i thought for one second that you meant any part of that

Wisdom: You no i'm not (more like..... you know i didn't), Dai, old friend

Dai is just welsh for David. Hope this doesnt spoil it for anyone

Cheers for that translation Madrox. It's been far too long since we last saw Dai Thomas. I hope Claremont chooses to use him again in the main series.


Best issue so far.

And I barely notices the change in artist. They're very similar. Although Garcia is probably tyring to emulate Harsine for continuities sake.

Yeah, I suppose he probably IS trying to fit into the style, but it certainly seems to work, in my opinion. I don't mind that.


I hate to say I think this is the weakest issue so far. Mostly because Wisdom and his group barely factored into the storyline. It was more of a Shang-Ci comic, guest starring Wsdom's team. Beyond that, the story wasn't all that great either. I probably should have stuck with my guts and skipped this mini.

Really? Shame. You might want to stick around for the next three, still, Beast. Issues 4-6 are a three parter, dealing with the visions and destinies that Maureen seems interweaved with.

I think maybe this one might have been one which was more for the Brits. This is very much our folkore. If you'd ever been to Wales you'd probably see a lot more humour in it.

I know what you mean, this was very much a standing in the wings story. But I think the intension was more to highlight the divisions for ming from within the team. Which to be honest are pretty much all Pete's fault.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

It has just been pointed out to me that, in somewhat perfectly timed irony, this issue was released on St. David's Day...:D

[Beast]

Ouch at the month to month sales.

142. WISDOM [Max]
11/06 #1 of 6 - 20,021
12/06 –
01/07 #2 of 6 - 14,855 (-25.8%)

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Ouch at the month to month sales.

142. WISDOM [Max]
11/06 #1 of 6 - 20,021
12/06 –
01/07 #2 of 6 - 14,855 (-25.8%)

It was never likely to sell huge amounts in series form. But I bet you that the trade figures will be a lot higher.

[Madrox84]

I can post the two lines of dialogue in here, if you'd like?

But from an obvious spoiler point of view I won't if you'd rather I didn't.

Sorry for taking so long to reply, i still don't actually have a copy of the issue :( And i have been having loads of problems with my internet connection in the last week or so.

I don't mind spoilers, so don't worry about it.

Either way, someone has beaten me to translating the welsh dialogue.

[Dizzy D]

Ouch at the month to month sales.

142. WISDOM [Max]
11/06 #1 of 6 - 20,021
12/06 –
01/07 #2 of 6 - 14,855 (-25.8%)

What were you expecting? A relatively expensive MAX title about a minor character by a writer who is unknown to probably most of the U.S. public and a limited series as well.

[Madrox84]

Ouch at the month to month sales.

142. WISDOM [Max]
11/06 #1 of 6 - 20,021
12/06 –
01/07 #2 of 6 - 14,855 (-25.8%)

I'm not hugely shocked by the low sales either, i never expected the series to sell particularly well.

[The Fury]

This series is great. Such unique storylines and gives a great new light of Wisdom and MU Britain.

I'm hoping the writer will use a random MUK character soon as well.

[Maestro]

Ouch at the month to month sales.

142. WISDOM [Max]
11/06 #1 of 6 - 20,021
12/06 –
01/07 #2 of 6 - 14,855 (-25.8%)

They should have stuck "X-Men" in the title

[jarrod]

Actually, I think trade sales will be quite a bit better... sort of like X-Factor, positive word of mouth will probably push it a bit the second time around.

[Tobias March]

Ouch at the month to month sales.

142. WISDOM [Max]
11/06 #1 of 6 - 20,021
12/06 –
01/07 #2 of 6 - 14,855 (-25.8%)

Is this the first comic to feature Welsh on panel? I wonder.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Is this the first comic to feature Welsh on panel? I wonder.

I was wondering the same, actually. I would hazard a guess that it is. No bad thing, mind.

[Frank]

I hate to say I think this is the weakest issue so far. Mostly because Wisdom and his group barely factored into the storyline. It was more of a Shang-Ci comic, guest starring Wsdom's team. Beyond that, the story wasn't all that great either. I probably should have stuck with my guts and skipped this mini.

I think the comic from the get-go has been more about a group of characters working for a British spy agency than just Wisdom himself. I think the writer figured to put Shang Chi there since he worked for many years with the British Goverment with guys like Black Jack Tarr and so forth.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

This series is great. Such unique storylines and gives a great new light of Wisdom and MU Britain.

I'm hoping the writer will use a random MUK character soon as well.

From posts over at Millarworld, and on Cornell's own blog, it sounds like Paul will be doing some more work for Marvel. As of yet he's not able to discuss it, but it does seem that there will be more on the cards from him.


I think the comic from the get-go has been more about a group of characters working for a British spy agency than just Wisdom himself. I think the writer figured to put Shang Chi there since he worked for many years with the British Goverment with guys like Black Jack Tarr and so forth.

That's pretty much how I see it, too. It's even Tink's silhouette in the Wisdom Logo on the cover.

A lot of people forget that Shang Chi worked so much with British Intelligence, I'm glad that somebody is remembering and acknowledging that.

[madrox1977]

Hmm just noticed that the other person offering the welsh translation is also called madrox and is also from Cardiff, now thats spooky

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Hmm just noticed that the other person offering the welsh translation is also called madrox and is also from Cardiff, now thats spooky

Yes. At first I thought you were one and the same. Lol!:D

[Madrox84]

Hmm just noticed that the other person offering the welsh translation is also called madrox and is also from Cardiff, now thats spooky

It is a little spooky...