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Kalen O.
02-21-2007, 02:50 PM
Searching through some old computer files while conversing in the Astonishing X-Men #20 thread, I came across something I once wrote for a friend just getting into comics in an effort to....simplify the Summers history for her.

....Yeah, it didn't help. But I figured I'll post it, because it pretty well highlights the SHEER ridiculousness of certain storylines and character histories. And yet we love 'em anyways. Despite all their cheese. So here's what I affectionately refer to as the Idiot's Guide to the Summers Family, and in the spirit of cheese, I challenge everyone to come up with characters and storylines that can trump the Summers for sheer head-ache inducing brain trauma.

So anyways, these days, the top of the Summers family tree looks something like this:

Hepzibah (weird alien cat thing) ------------------------------ Corsair (retro space pirate)


Katherine Summers (only normal person in the whole damn family, figures she's been dead since before the comics started) --------------------- possibly D-Ken Nemerani (weird alien bird emperor thingie...not to mention schizoid psychotic)


Now the latter pairing leads to Adam-X, according to speculation, but since that's unlikely to ever be confirmed, Adam is spared from joining the Summers Clan, meaning he will NOT be required to kill/attack/attempt to maim a close relative, marry the clone of a former loved one, seduce/be seduced by his brother's wife, be the object of some ridiculous prophecy, be the object of his psychotic mother's initiation to the I'M SO UNLOVED THUS I WANT TO BE AN EVIL BAD GUY AND DESTROY THE WORLD IN A FIT OF PIQUE club (by ritual sacrifice on a demonic altar of course), jump around the time stream for lack of anything better to do, jump around alternate dimensions for lack of anything better to do, use the word flonq every other time he opens his mouth in order to show the world just how bad ass he actually is, meet the love of his life while in a coma, or appear on the Jerry Springer show. Yay Adam.

Then we have Scott and Alex, the result of normal person plus normal person turned retro space pirate... Now Scott, other than being the object of Mr. Sinister's unrequited lust...err scientific curiosity, naturally grows up to be the stalwart leader of the outlaw X-Men, inspired by too many viewings of Robin Hood and His Merry Men, and gives his heart to the beautiful Jean Grey. Except of course, for all the times he thinks Jean's dead and goes off to boff the nearest redhead. But to be fair, Colleen wasn't a redhead, and neither was Lee Forester, which is probably why he dumped her so she could later go on to hook up with Magneto (Ewww).

Eventually of course, Jean goes super power crazy, a la Dark Phoenix, but sacrifices herself to save the universe from...herself. Because, you know, it was the seventies. All the cool kids were doing that. After the ritual period of mourning (which is cut short because this happens so often, they'd never get anything done otherwise, and besides, everybody whose anybody KNOWS that they all come back eventually anyways), Scott commemorates his love's great sacrifice and indulges his redhead fetish by marrying her identical likeness, Madelyne Pryor. It was a two for one deal.

And naturally neither his teammates nor his bald, crippled telepathic mentor with the degree in psychology had a problem with him marrying the identical likeness of his dead love, because he didn't have issues, and it had nothing to do with emotional transference, it was a union founded in the love of two kindred spirits. Duh.

And naturally Madelyne had no problems marrying Scott, despite the fact that she freaked out all his friends with her uncanny resemblance to his dead girlfriend, because she knew that deep down, he really loved HER, Madelyne Pryor, and he'd love her just as much if she were fat and ugly and the red in her air came from the feminine products aisle at the local grocery store. Because, you know, she was a naturally bright and optimistic person. Duh.

Scott, being the trend setter that he is (after all, look how the spandex thing caught on), proceeds to be the first X-Man to build a happy family. He inspires others through his own relationship with his wife, who by this time has revealed her own latent mutant powers of excessive self delusion, and he astounds all his friends with his incredible parenting skills. Except, you know, that one time when he missed his son being born, and that other time he left his wife and child in Alaska to go have an affair with his resurrected ex-girlfriend, but those don't really count. They were on a break or something.

Anyway. Then of course, his wife takes the whole "Hell Hath No Fury Like A Woman Scorned" thing a bit too literally and tries to send the world to Hell in a handbasket by sacrificing the apple of his eye in the place where the bridge between Earth and Limbo is thinnest, which I personally always thought was Las Vegas, but hey, guess not, its the Empire State Building. Go figure.

Big old mess, lots of blood and gore and weird freaky things that go bump in the night, but its New York in the eighties. Not that unusual, so nobody really noticed. So that whole mess gets straightened out, all's well and good, back to shacking up with Jean Grey in a sentient spaceship that's aware of their every move, even the ones in the bedrooms (Eww). Of course there's the occasional spat with Big, Blue and Butt-ugly, otherwise known as Apocalypse, or Bozo the Clown Meets the Terminator. Come on, you've seen the guy's lips. You know what I'm talking about. Anyway.

Eventually little baby Summers gets sent into the future, because the sentient spaceship doesn't have any kids his own age to play with and it's bad for his emotional wellbeing or something. After being appropriately devastated over the untimely plot device, the grieving parents look at the silver lining and go back to having hot mutant sex in the bedroom. Where the sentient spaceship is watching. Eww. Oh wait, phew, never mind, the spaceship got blown up on the moon, and they're all back at the mansion because someone clicked their heels together three times and said "there's no place like home." Or Marvel decided to do another X-Men relaunch. Or something like that. Duh.

But hey, all in a day of the life of a Summers, right? And Scott's the strong, silent type. That's why we love 'im, right? He can take it. Erm, at least until Big, Blue and Butt-Ugly pulls off another of his Annual Grand Masterplans to Take Over the World and ends up possessing poor ole Scott, due to Scott's heroic sacrifice to save one of his numerous children from alternate dimensions/future timelines. Has the dude not heard of birth control? Seriously.

Anyway. The merged Scott and Apocalypse put their heads together, and BY THEIR POWERS COMBINED...they summon Captain Planet. Heh. Umm, no, actually they manage to come up with an even stupider name than either of them could have managed on their own, and they run away to Mexico, calling themselves Cyclopalypse. Yay creativity.

After the requisite "grieving cuz we think he's dead even though we should know by now he's really not" period, his loving wife and doting son track him down by asking people if they've seen a guy with a really bad fashion sense and an even worse name. Then in an act of love, Nathan pokes his father with a big, pointy stick and kills Apocalypse in a very anticlimactic scene, before breaking into a victory dance that looks suspiciously like a epileptic gorilla hyped up on steroids having a seizure. Well, he doesn't do the dance part. But he should. It's a very anticlimactic scene.

Anyway. Scott goes off to find himself, and instead finds a somewhat acceptable outfit and one of Logan's old motorcycles, before coming home, where he has an epiphany. His life sucks and he needs a change. But because it would be too much hassle to change his last name, he decides what he really needs to do is get off that redhead kick that's been plaguing him for forty years. He had tried the Purple Haired Telepathic British Spy Turned Purple Haired Telepathic Ninja Assassin brand before, but that didn't work out so well, and besides, it wasn't Betsy it was Kwannon. Duh. And if you don't already know, don't ask. Trust me. So instead Scott does the reasonable thing and chooses the Telepathic Blonde Fake-Busted Villainess Turned Manipulative Teacher And Corruptor of Adolescent Youth Turned Amateur Sex Therapist brand. Also a good choice. Anyways, he proceeds to commit psychic adultery with her, because like I said, he needed a change and boxers to briefs just wasn't doing it for him. But on a plus side, his taste in women has improved over the decades. At least this one hasn't tried to sacrifice her firstborn. Yet. It's all about the baby steps people.

And then of course we can't forget Summers Junior, aka Alex Summers. We love Alex. He has all the makings of a great character. He angsts, he broods, he sleeps with his brother's wife and tries to kill him because, gosh, that stupid old Mr. Sinister likes Scott better than him. I mean, wouldn't you be jealous? Okay, so that isn't really why he tries to kill his brother, but he does it so many times I've lost track of the reasons. Let's just go with this one. It's more fun. So after numerous years spent living in his brother's shadow, complaining about living in his brother's shadow, getting brainwashed into trying to kill his brother, and going out to dig up rocks in the desert because its far away from brainwashing villains and his brother's shadow, he joins the X-Men, tries to kill his lover because she tried to kill him first, dies, comes back to life, tries to kill his lover again, becomes his brother's wife's lover, tries to kill his brother….

*pauses for breath*

Kalen O.
02-21-2007, 02:50 PM
….. gets brainwashed and becomes a bad guy, tries to kill his brother again, becomes leader of a government mutant team because they were so impressed with the way he lead the bad guys while trying to kill his brother, gets kidnapped BUT NOT brainwashed (aha, improvement!), tries to kill his lover again, tries to kill his brother again, dies, gets sent to an alternate universe where his brother's first wife is his wife and they have a son named after the brother his new wife was married to in the first place, tries to kill his wife, or she tries to kill him, I forget, wife dies, he turns into the amazing coma boy, gets a nifty looking scar that makes his nurse swoon and fall madly in love with him, wakes up to find his first lover crazy and trying to kill the nice nurse who changed his diapers while playing coma boy, goes to marry crazy first lover before realizing he loves the nice nurse, calls off the wedding, tries to kill his lover because she tried to kill him first, and then goes on a date to Paris. Anyone see a pattern anywhere in here?

Anyway. This is why we love Annie. She makes a nice deviation from the norm. Plus, she's a closet necrophiliac who likes long walks on the beach and conversations with dead people. what's not to love? Yay Annie.

Then we've got Madelyne Pryor Summers. Poor Maddie. Nobody loves her. Not even Daddy Dearest. Everybody just wants her for her genes. Everybody likes Jean better than her. Shut up Madelyne.

Anyways. So Madelyne practices the art of self delusion and does the whole "marry Scott because he's wholesome and fun and has great genes" thing, belatedly uses her knock-off Jean Grey brain cells to realize hey, she's just a substitution for the real thing, and reveals her secondary mutation of throwing really impressive temper tantrums. After wearing her voice out screaming "you love Jean better than me", almost getting killed, losing her baby instead of her car keys and running around with the X-Men wearing an ugly green flight suit because jeans make her look fat, Maddie does the desperate housewives shtick and shacks up with a demon from the seventh circle from Hell. Excellent choice. Not really up there in the looks department, but hey, at least he was committed, right?

Except for when he tried to kill her. But she’s Maddie. Everyone tries to kill her, so again, not that big a deal.

Anyways. So Maddie’s demon lover gives her all these nifty magic powers, which is a big plus in his favor, after all, the only thing Scott ever gave her was those lame-o Valentines chocolates from Vons. So first things first - ‘cause Maddie’s a girl whose got her priorities straight – she puts her demonic powers to good use and buys a new wardrobe so she can audition for Sluttiest Villainess of the Year, calls herself the Goblyn Queen because all the good codenames were already taken (damn you Jean Grey!), and then performs the only worthwhile act of her entire career as a villain. Because I mean, if brainwashing your husband’s brother into becoming your loyal sex slave and sending him running off in just a loincloth to kill your husband while you cackle evilly and go back to sacrificing your firstborn son isn’t enough to get you on the Top Ten List of Most Depraved Acts of All Time, well gosh, I just don’t know what is.

Anyways. So back at the spiffy-looking demonic altar she ordered out of Martha Stewart’s ‘Better Home Living for the Satanic and Criminally Insane’ catalogue, Maddie’s busy being mother of the year, which basically consists of her waving her baby around and cackling evilly in between the crying and screaming fits about how her husband and her daddy just don’t love her and oh god, its so not fair and she’s just under so. Much. Stress. So she can’t possibly be blamed for wanting to unleash Hell on Earth, and she was never really cut out to be the parenting type anyways. So see? It’s really not her fault. Flawless reasoning there.

Well the X-Men and X-Factor all tell her to just shut up, because really, they just don’t care, and Jean bitchslaps her clone and the obligatory catfight scene begins in earnest. And then climaxes with a very moving Touched By an Angel moment in which Jean reveals that she UNDERSTANDS, which is naturally just too much for poor ole’ Maddy, because that’s not what she wants. Where’s the pity, dammit, the pity!?! So Maddie of course chooses the only option still available to her and kills herself in one final act of defiance. Yup, she sure showed that mean ole’ Jean Grey, that’s for sure.

But is that the end of our unbeloved Goblyn Queen? We should be so lucky….err, I mean, no, of course not. Because really, she’s still alive and well in an alternate universe, having hot nekkid sex and making crazy mutant babies with Alex, and she didn’t even have to brainwash him this time. Go Maddie! Anyways, this Maddie is much happier with her state of marital affairs and maintaints a tight household. Hence, her storylines all follow a nice even cycle of Commit Adultery, Go Crazy, Kill People, Die and Come Back to Life, Rinse on High, Dry, and Repeat. Tres boring.

Back in our main universe…..after several years of Maddie going on and on about how Jean always gets to come back to life, but she didn’t, and that’s just further proof that even demons like Jean better, Hell finally gets fed up and resurrects her just to shut her up. Now sporting a trendy new leather ensemble from that BDSM store down the street, Maddie joins the Hellfire Club so she can hang out with all the popular villains and be cool like them.

Um, yeah, it didn’t really work.

New plan! Maddie goes for the Shocking!Bold!Yet Mysterious! approach and hooks up with Nate Grey, Scott and Jean’s adult son from yet ANOTHER alternate reality. Really, she’s just his mentor in all things psychic and superpersonny, ‘cause Maddie’s been around the block more than once and she’s picked up a few tricks. Wink wink nudge nudge. Don’t tell anyone but…*looks around furtively*…there was actually a little bit more than just ‘mentoring’ going on between those two. *Gasp* No! Oh, the controversy!

All’s well and good in Maddie-land for awhile, but we all know THAT can’t last, so ultimately the shocking truth comes out….Maddie was never resurrected! She’s just a figment of Nate’s imagination brought to life by his super dooper psychic powers!

But of course, it didn’t really matter anyways, as two issues later it comes out that figment!Maddy was actually replaced by EvilAlternateReality!Jean awhile ago, and no one even noticed.

Just further proof that….say it with me folks….everybody likes Jean better than me! Waaaaaah! Oh poor Maddy. She’s so unloved.

Place your bets on how long before she nags someone else into bringing her back to life right here….

Next up: Jean Grey. The one, the only, the never to be duplicated….oh wait, that’s not her. Okay, the first, the original, the one to be cloned and killed and brought back to life ad nauseam….drum roll please…..its Jean! Grey! Summers!

…It is still Summers, right? I mean, she didn’t get divorced or killed and ‘done part by death’ again when I wasn’t looking, did she? Oh, she did? Damn. I can never keep track….

Hmm, so what to say about Jean. Well, she dies a lot…..comes back a lot…..professes her undying love for Scott a lot….but makes out with Logan a lot too…umm…hmm…erm….uh….well lessee, so if you take out all the times she’s just killed and dead or being brought back to life so she can go trade angsty professions of forbidden love with Logan before doing ‘THE RIGHT THING’ and going home to her husband….ummm…well, I hear she makes a wicked meatloaf.

*Shrug*

Anyways. Well there you have the first branch of the Summers clan. Yours truly will hold off on doing the kidlets for awhile, because he has a headache now. And dealing with Cable, Stryfe, X-Man, Genesis and Rachel isn’t likely to help with that. Seeing as how Cable, Stryfe and X-Man are all the same person, thanks to time travel, cloning and alternate realities, Genesis is a homicidal psychopath who takes after his grandmother, and Rachel earned her codename of Phoenix a long time ago by dying almost as often as her mom. Think she just has a couple more resurrections to go before she catches up.

....And of course these days, you've got Gabe Summers to throw into the whole mess, so on that note....*headhitsdeskanddies*

Mikl C
02-21-2007, 03:29 PM
Hehe. Nice post.
Isn't Colleen Wing a natural redhead?

Scavenger
02-21-2007, 03:42 PM
Hehe. Nice post.
Isn't Colleen Wing a natural redhead?

Only her hairdresser...and Misty Knight...know for sure.

xgeek52
02-21-2007, 03:50 PM
*whew*

you did a good job but you're dealing with 40plus years of back story...

and you only stratch the surface...i should know i've been there since the beginning...

Pro
02-21-2007, 03:56 PM
And naturally neither his teammates nor his bald, crippled telepathic mentor with the degree in psychology had a problem with him marrying the identical likeness of his dead love, because he didn't have issues, and it had nothing to do with emotional transference, it was a union founded in the love of two kindred spirits. Duh.

This always had me baffled.

Scavenger
02-21-2007, 04:01 PM
This always had me baffled.

Well at the time, it was just what it was. There was none of the stupid clone stuff or any of that...they were concerned, but she checked out, she loved Scott, Scott loved her...and it was off to mariageville.

Untill the suits decided they had to bring Jean back, and nothing's been good since.


Lee Forester, which is probably why he dumped her so she could later go on to hook up with Magneto (Ewww).

Everyone hooks up with Magneto. His the Mag Daddy.

Pro
02-21-2007, 04:28 PM
she loved Scott, Scott loved her

Yea but even the most inept psychologist could figure out Scott fell for her because she was the spitting image of his dead girlfriend who had killed herself only years before. I mean that was just not a healthy basis for a relationship.

xgeek52
02-21-2007, 04:49 PM
that's always pissed me off...the madelyne pryor story line was not a bad one...it was only when they decided to bring jean back that they screwed it up...

although i will admit the editors then were smarter now...they cleaned it up reaallly well...

ibrakeforchinwe
02-21-2007, 05:02 PM
Only her hairdresser...and Misty Knight...know for sure.

And Scott Summers...that whore. Scott I mean.

Brian M.
02-21-2007, 05:05 PM
I love anything Summers/Grey. Nice job man. Very funny and correct.

xgeek52
02-21-2007, 05:06 PM
y'see that what bugs me...everyone wants to dis scott...

read the bloody stories...

xgeek52
02-21-2007, 05:08 PM
i may have misunderstood iberake please explain...

ibrakeforchinwe
02-21-2007, 06:11 PM
i may have misunderstood iberake please explain...

they were talking about colleen wings haircolor and i said scott would know cuz he slept with her.:cool:

xgeek52
02-21-2007, 06:25 PM
i remember that but that doesn't make scott a 'ho...

y'see, it's always been jean from jump street...so what do you do when you lose the love of your live and you find other people you're attracted to...

Omega Alpha
02-21-2007, 06:32 PM
LOL! That post was hilarious.:)


Well at the time, it was just what it was. There was none of the stupid clone stuff or any of that...they were concerned, but she checked out, she loved Scott, Scott loved her...and it was off to mariageville.

Untill the suits decided they had to bring Jean back, and nothing's been good since.

Actually, nobody was concerned. No one even questioned if Scott really loved that woman, or said there was something wrong. Actually, when Scott had his doubts, Alex convinced him to get married... so he could bang her later.

For me, this whole thing was to CC's first run as Xorneto is to Morrison, caused long term damage to the character and makes me wonder if the creator was on drugs when he came up with the idea.

tycho
02-21-2007, 09:32 PM
For me, this whole thing was to CC's first run as Xorneto is to Morrison, caused long term damage to the character and makes me wonder if the creator was on drugs when he came up with the idea.
Claremont never intended Jean to die at the end of the Phoenix Saga. She was simply going to be depowered and then pretty much go back to the X-Men, where she and Scott would get married and fade into the background.

However, Jim Shooter ordered the ending of the story to be changed at the last minute, so Bryne and Claremont had Jean kill herself instead. But Claremont still wanted to have somewhat of a happy ending, so Madelyne made her first appearance a few months down the road. Her uncanny resemblance to Jean Grey isn't exactly a coincidence; if Claremont wasn't hinting outright that Madelyne was the reincarnation of Jean Grey, he definitely intended her to fill that niche in Scott's life and get him out of the X-Men for a while.

Not a bad story at all, if it had ended right then. I think it was when the writers realized they had to start setting the stage for the launch of X-Factor, everything kind of went to hell with the characterization of Madelyne and Scott.

xgeek52
02-21-2007, 09:47 PM
what tyco said...

i kinda said it earlier but screw it up...

madrox1977
02-22-2007, 12:54 AM
Excellent work, and very funny as well, just one thing how is Adam a Summers? cos the recent uncanny story with Gabe and D'Ken's flashbacks show katherine summers killed whilst preggers with Gabe! so adam cant be D'ken and Katherines child.

Kalen O.
02-22-2007, 01:10 AM
Well right, but like I said, I wrote this awhile back, before Gabe was introduced as the third Summers brother. Fabian Nicieza, the writer who introduced the concept of the third Summers brother and wrote the issue where Sinister mentions it, has said a number of times that his plans were always to reveal Adam X as the half brother of Scott and Alex, the halfbreed son of D'Ken and Katherine. However he never actually got the chance to write it all that way in canon, and the idea was pretty much abandoned by other writers until Brubaker created Vulcan. And of course, now it's pretty safe to say Adam will never be confirmed as one of Scott and Alex's siblings, for pretty much the reasons you just described.

madrox1977
02-22-2007, 01:52 AM
oh very sorry, forgot you mentioned this being done pre Gabe

Kalen O.
02-22-2007, 01:55 AM
Lol, no worries. I don't even know where I hear most of this stuff like Nicieza's plans for Adam, so it always catches me off guard when somebody else doesn't know what the hell I'm talking about. (Mostly because I never remember where I heard it and thus have nothing to back it up with, lol).

Arilou
02-22-2007, 03:24 AM
Ah.... Good stuff.

Omega Alpha
02-22-2007, 06:37 AM
Claremont never intended Jean to die at the end of the Phoenix Saga. She was simply going to be depowered and then pretty much go back to the X-Men, where she and Scott would get married and fade into the background.

However, Jim Shooter ordered the ending of the story to be changed at the last minute, so Bryne and Claremont had Jean kill herself instead. But Claremont still wanted to have somewhat of a happy ending, so Madelyne made her first appearance a few months down the road. Her uncanny resemblance to Jean Grey isn't exactly a coincidence; if Claremont wasn't hinting outright that Madelyne was the reincarnation of Jean Grey, he definitely intended her to fill that niche in Scott's life and get him out of the X-Men for a while.

So, in other words, Claremont was consciously marrying Scott with Maddie because she looked like Jean.



Not a bad story at all, if it had ended right then. I think it was when the writers realized they had to start setting the stage for the launch of X-Factor, everything kind of went to hell with the characterization of Madelyne and Scott.

It is a bad story, no matter when it ended. If he can't have a depowered Jean Grey marrying Cyclops, like he wanted, he should have simply moved on and told other stories. To have him marrying a woman who looked exactly like Jean Grey marrying Cyclops shortly after they met is very stupid, to say the least, and demanded lots of PIS for all characters (no one even questioning what Scott was doing, and Scott himself not seeing they were different people). It's even a little cynical, like he was saying he gets his plans done by any means necessary or something like that. It was the low point of CC's first run, no doubt about it.

xgeek52
02-22-2007, 08:32 AM
hey omega, the maddie run was not a bad one...it's what came afterwards...

back then we didn't have the luxuary of the internet or spoilers...shops were in their infancy so we didn't know what the editors had planned...

the dark phoenix saga was one of the best thing claramont and byrne did...what followed was equally as good...yes jean was the love of scott's life but where is it written that he can't move on...i thought then there was potential with lee forrester -- it would have been a better story...but the madelyne pryor story line really was a good one -- given it's time...

it was when the marvel editors decided to bring jean back that things went to hell in a handbasket...the first xfactor run wasn't bad but it was how they resolved the maddie character that was all screwed up...

but like i said that was golden compared to what they're doing now...

Pro
02-22-2007, 10:14 AM
jean was the love of scott's life but where is it written that he can't move on...

Marrying the mirror image of your dead girlfriend does not constitute "moving on".

tycho
02-22-2007, 10:22 AM
So, in other words, Claremont was consciously marrying Scott with Maddie because she looked like Jean.


No. The point is, Claremont wasn't having Scott marry Madelyne because she LOOKED like Jean Grey... Madelyne was basically SUPPOSED to be Jean Grey, reincarnated in spirit and all that jazz.That's how she and Scott initially had a special connection and why none of the X-Men questioned it; yeah, they were surprised that Madelyne looked so much like Jean, but she just "felt right" so it really wasn't questioned. Maybe Claremont could have dwelt more on the X-Team's reaction to Maddie, but there were more important storylines going down at the time (Wolverine's wedding, anyone?) and Scott was basically on his way to being written out of the book anyway.

And as I said before, editorial directions shifted shortly after that so we then saw what might be one of the quickest character retcons ever. In retrospect, the whole thing now is creepy and wrong and terrible out of character for Scott especially, but at the time it made a certain amount of sense. It's everything that comes after Maddie and Scott get together, when the writers couldn't go with the initial 'everyone lived happily ever after' plan and had to reintroduce Jean Grey for real, that's when the whole thing becomes a Jungian nightmare.

Canemacar
02-22-2007, 12:17 PM
Once a deer population becomes too large, hunters are then issued a liscence to hunt and kill deer in order to bring the population down to acceptable levels. I'm thinking we need to do that with the Summers.

Kalen O.
02-22-2007, 12:36 PM
Lol, come on, its the Summers. They'd only all come back anyways.

Shellhead
02-22-2007, 02:54 PM
No. The point is, Claremont wasn't having Scott marry Madelyne because she LOOKED like Jean Grey... Madelyne was basically SUPPOSED to be Jean Grey, reincarnated in spirit and all that jazz.That's how she and Scott initially had a special connection and why none of the X-Men questioned it; yeah, they were surprised that Madelyne looked so much like Jean, but she just "felt right" so it really wasn't questioned. Maybe Claremont could have dwelt more on the X-Team's reaction to Maddie, but there were more important storylines going down at the time (Wolverine's wedding, anyone?) and Scott was basically on his way to being written out of the book anyway.


The handling of the Madelyne story seems hypocritical, given the way Claremont over-reacted to how David Michelinie handled Carol Danvers and Marcus Immortus in Avengers #200.

I'm not a fan of Mojo, but maybe somebody could bring him back to do a Jerry Springer-like Summers Clan Reunion. Complete with shoe-throwing and wrassling on the floor. I'd pay to see it.

Omega Alpha
02-22-2007, 06:05 PM
hey omega, the maddie run was not a bad one...it's what came afterwards...

back then we didn't have the luxuary of the internet or spoilers...shops were in their infancy so we didn't know what the editors had planned...

the dark phoenix saga was one of the best thing claramont and byrne did...what followed was equally as good...yes jean was the love of scott's life but where is it written that he can't move on...i thought then there was potential with lee forrester -- it would have been a better story...but the madelyne pryor story line really was a good one -- given it's time...

it was when the marvel editors decided to bring jean back that things went to hell in a handbasket...the first xfactor run wasn't bad but it was how they resolved the maddie character that was all screwed up...

but like i said that was golden compared to what they're doing now...

I like Maddie, but the idea of someone marrying a woman who looked exactly like the love of his life who died after 7 issues and we being supposed to accept the thing like it was the most normal thing in the world and it was true love for the new girlfriend (Madelyne) is ridiculous.



No. The point is, Claremont wasn't having Scott marry Madelyne because she LOOKED like Jean Grey... Madelyne was basically SUPPOSED to be Jean Grey, reincarnated in spirit and all that jazz.

If it was CC's intention to bring Jean back, just in another form, he can't complain when someone decides to bring back Jean in the "original" form, and complain about DPS being ruined is even hypocritical. Plus, it makes Madelyne an expandable character, and even one that is necesary to be eliminated when Jean is around.



That's how she and Scott initially had a special connection and why none of the X-Men questioned it; yeah, they were surprised that Madelyne looked so much like Jean, but she just "felt right" so it really wasn't questioned.


That's just BS, and it was really Claremont not wanting people to question it. The idea that the X-men would just feel that nothing is wrong is pathetic.



Maybe Claremont could have dwelt more on the X-Team's reaction to Maddie, but there were more important storylines going down at the time (Wolverine's wedding, anyone?) and Scott was basically on his way to being written out of the book anyway.

So, it was a badly done storyline with the sole purpose of eliminating Scott from the books as soon as possible (which of course, had nothing to do with making his pet supreme Storm the leader).




And as I said before, editorial directions shifted shortly after that so we then saw what might be one of the quickest character retcons ever.


And one of the retcons that makes more sense, and certainly one that needed to be done.



In retrospect, the whole thing now is creepy and wrong and terrible out of character for Scott especially, but at the time it made a certain amount of sense. It's everything that comes after Maddie and Scott get together, when the writers couldn't go with the initial 'everyone lived happily ever after' plan and had to reintroduce Jean Grey for real, that's when the whole thing becomes a Jungian nightmare..

No, it's a stupid storyline no matter when it was done or when it's read, and, like you said yourself, was done only to eliminate quickly Scott from the books.

Mikl C
02-22-2007, 06:08 PM
I loved when Lilandra was all SHARRA AND KITHRI HAVE MERCY! and then tried to stab Maddy with her badass Shi'ar knife. Lolol

Omega Alpha
02-22-2007, 06:23 PM
I loved when Lilandra was all SHARRA AND KITHRI HAVE MERCY! and then tried to stab Maddy with her badass Shi'ar knife. Lolol

Yeah, that was very funny. :)

blackphoenix
02-27-2007, 12:31 PM
I want Jean back...:(

jarrod
02-27-2007, 12:49 PM
Actually, Claremont never intended Maddie to be the "reincarnation of Jean" of anything... it was always an intentional red herring, Claremont just wanted the reader (and the cast really) continually guessing.

Maddie herself was just suppossed to look like Jean, nothing more, and be Scott's vehicle for retirement from the book. Then X-Factor happened...

Omega Alpha
02-27-2007, 12:58 PM
Actually, Claremont never intended Maddie to be the "reincarnation of Jean" of anything... it was always an intentional red herring, Claremont just wanted the reader (and the cast really) continually guessing.

Maddie herself was just suppossed to look like Jean, nothing more, and be Scott's vehicle for retirement from the book. Then X-Factor happened...

... and the character went to a great series, written by Louise Simonson, his best writer to date, and was a part of several great stories, while, if CC's plans went on, he would stay in Limbo forever so Storm could shine and be the bestest leader ever and no one would ever question in the comics if there's something wrong with him marrying a girl who looks exactly like his dead fiancee shortly after he met her.

jarrod
02-27-2007, 01:32 PM
... and the character went to a great series, written by Louise Simonson, his best writer to date, and was a part of several great stories,
I dunno, I always found Wheezie's work on X-Factor and New Mutants something of a snore. Great art (courtesy of Walt and Bret Blevins... and that neat Art Adams fill in), but pretty forgettable as well, particularly when compared to Claremont's near universally agreed upon excellence with Uncanny, New Mutants and Excalibur.




while, if CC's plans went on, he would stay in Limbo forever so Storm could shine and be the bestest leader ever and no one would ever question in the comics if there's something wrong with him marrying a girl who looks exactly like his dead fiancee shortly after he met her
Er, the point in the red herring was precisely to question. Nobody was to question Scott's motivations because they'd all be wondering about Maddie herself.... that's the real draw. Certainly would've been better than the clone retcon we got instead.

As for your Storm comments, Claremont likes to build up characters to bring them down... frankly, her tenure as X-Men leader under Claremont was anything but "bestest leader ever", indeed Ororo seemed to be continually fixating on her core failures as leader (not just of the X-Men, but also the Morlocks). As if your previous comments weren't seething with bias as is, this one's pretty much outed you.