All-Star The Dark Knight (Batman) movie

[Monty_Cristo]

Behind Heath Ledger, Aaron Eckhart was easily the second best part of the movie. And thats a hard thing to do when your acting alongside Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, Michael Caine, and Morgan Freeman.

Harvey Dent was the back-bone of the entire film and I think that Aaron Eckhart did a great job at making Dent a purposeful and intriguing character.

yeah, he had the biggest character arc and more than did his job. he made Harvey genuinely likable in the first half and genuinely tragic in the last.

[david r]

Harvey Dent was the back-bone of the entire film and I think that Aaron Eckhart did a great job at making Dent a purposeful and intriguing character.

But that's my problem with this film. It was promoted as Batman vs. the Joker. But after seeing it Saturday, it was more Batman vs. Two-face, with the Joker guest-appearing in a few memorable scenes. By the finale, Two-Face got all the closure, and the Joker was left hanging.

[mattx110]

But that's my problem with this film. It was promoted as Batman vs. the Joker. But after seeing it Saturday, it was more Batman vs. Two-face, with the Joker guest-appearing in a few memorable scenes. By the finale, Two-Face got all the closure, and the Joker was left hanging.
I think "we're going to be doing this forever" was about as much closure as the Joker needs.

[SnowTrooper]

But that's my problem with this film. It was promoted as Batman vs. the Joker. But after seeing it Saturday, it was more Batman vs. Two-face, with the Joker guest-appearing in a few memorable scenes. By the finale, Two-Face got all the closure, and the Joker was left hanging.

It was still Batman vs The Joker the whole movie. Two-Face was basically a pawn created by The Joker to be his "Ace in the Hole" and break the spirits of Gotham citizens. Harvey Dent and the mob were just tools in the battle between Batman and Joker.

The Joker may have not been every single scene, but his presence was felt throughout the whole movie, even when he wasnt onscreen. Joker was only left hanging because we knew that he'd be back eventually, for all we know he may have already had a plan to escape from the cops. It was foreshadowed that he and Batman were "destined to do this forever."

And an argument could be made that Two-Face didnt get enough screen time that a character of his magnitude deserved.

[Monty_Cristo]

It was still Batman vs The Joker the whole movie. Two-Face was basically a pawn created by The Joker to be his "Ace in the Hole" and break the spirits of Gotham citizens. Harvey Dent and the mob were just tools in the battle between Batman and Joker.

The Joker may have not been every single scene, but his presence was felt throughout the whole movie, even when he wasnt onscreen. Joker was only left hanging because we knew that he'd be back eventually, for all we know he may have already had a plan to escape from the cops. It was foreshadowed that he and Batman were "destined to do this forever."

And an argument could be made that Two-Face didnt get enough screen time that a character of his magnitude deserved.


to me, the proper amount of time was given to every character. they all made the most of what they were given. any more, and the Two-Face stuff could have been overkill. there were only so many people he could get revenge on. and "Two-Face" was just Harvey having a bad day. the real story was Harvey. i don't really see it as him becoming a comic book villain. either way you look at it, the scarring was mostly on the inside.

[mattx110]

It was still Batman vs The Joker the whole movie. Two-Face was basically a pawn created by The Joker to be his "Ace in the Hole" and break the spirits of Gotham citizens. Harvey Dent and the mob were just tools in the battle between Batman and Joker.

The Joker may have not been every single scene, but his presence was felt throughout the whole movie, even when he wasnt onscreen. Joker was only left hanging because we knew that he'd be back eventually, for all we know he may have already had a plan to escape from the cops. It was foreshadowed that he and Batman were "destined to do this forever."

And an argument could be made that Two-Face didnt get enough screen time that a character of his magnitude deserved.
I think given how obvious the Gordon fake-out was, they had to take someone out you didn't expect.

[SnowTrooper]

to me, the proper amount of time was given to every character. they all made the most of what they were given. any more, and the Two-Face stuff could have been overkill. there were only so many people he could get revenge on. and "Two-Face" was just Harvey having a bad day. the real story was Harvey. i don't really see it as him becoming a comic book villain. either way you look at it, the scarring was mostly on the inside.

I dont have any complaints about the amount of screen time Two-Face or any other character had. I would have loved to see more of The Joker, but thats just because he was so freakin' sweet.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Joker was only left hanging because we knew that he'd be back eventually, for all we know he may have already had a plan to escape from the cops. It was foreshadowed that he and Batman were "destined to do this forever."

You know, I thought the same. Considering his line about not risking it all on a fist fight with Batman really indicated he knew he might end up in that predicament (or, for that matter, dead). He's a character I can see as having some plan for the eventuality he was caught there.


This is disturbing:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?p...ticle&id=17826


One can only hope it's a hoax.

I'd say so. A few weeks ago some other source was tipping Angelina Jolie to be under consideration by the studio for the role. I think its just the normal case of no one knowing anything about the potential third film they are just guessing stuff that will draw attention.

Next week it will probably be someone just as unlikely. Maybe Dame Judi Dench or something.

[Jmacq1]

Yeah, honestly folks...they haven't even got Nolan to start work on Batman 3 yet. This is just like every single time a big hit movie comes out: People start tossing out shots in the dark, and someone picks up on it as "news" even though there isn't any.

As of right now, there's no script, no director, no casting director, nothing...Batman 3 is a vaporfilm. Yes, it's almost certainly going to happen., but it's not happening right now.

[shamone]

But that's my problem with this film. It was promoted as Batman vs. the Joker. But after seeing it Saturday, it was more Batman vs. Two-face, with the Joker guest-appearing in a few memorable scenes. By the finale, Two-Face got all the closure, and the Joker was left hanging.


not sure if it was promoted as joker vs batman

didnt nolan say that the joker would not have an arc, that he would be an instrument of chaos, popping up here and there to cause mayhem and then disappear again (paraphrasing). he wasnt the main focus, he was the plot driver, the character who pushed the other characters

[kalorama]

not sure if it was promoted as joker vs batman

didnt nolan say that the joker would not have an arc, that he would be an instrument of chaos, popping up here and there to cause mayhem and then disappear again (paraphrasing). he wasnt the main focus, he was the plot driver, the character who pushed the other characters

In other words he was the antagonist. Batman was the protagonist. And in a traditional storytelling structure, the plot is built around antagonist versus protagonist.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

This guy Rod Hilton has been maiking parody scripts of Popular movies for about ten years. Today he posted his take on Chris Nolan's money machine The Dark Knight.

at the-editing-room.com (http://www.the-editing-room.com/thedarkknight.html)

lots of funny...

read enjoy discuss.

[togeteiku42]

That's great. I love where they are talking about the sonar and Bale asks Freeman why this is different from when he used it before and Freeman says "plausibility, mostly"

[Your Imaginary Pal]

well the part about the batman voice where it says he sounds like he's gargling ....something unsavory...

the problems he had with the film were in line with my own issues. But for all of the films problems, it was still enjoyable. I think the writer of the script enjoyed it as well as he rated it 4.5 stars out of 5. But there were a lot of...ok, you're just being sloppy there...moments in the movie.

[Arachnid]

HEATH LEDGER

How the hell did a guy in a giant bat costume sneak up right next to me without anyone noticing?

Holy crap, I need to sig that. :biggrin:

[Agent Helix]

Pretty spot on.

[shamone]

In other words he was the antagonist. Batman was the protagonist. And in a traditional storytelling structure, the plot is built around antagonist versus protagonist.

he was a force of nature, as was stated throughout the pre press coverage by nolan.

he had no beginning, he had no end.

that was the point. you look for closure, for a character which was not meant to have any, and to whcih it was stated he woudlnt have. no where was it promoted as the joker's life story with closure to boot

[Nefarius]

HEATH LEDGER

I can wait. Want to hear a story? Once upon a time, I had a wife. She was beautiful, like you. Er, no, I mean in complete contrast to you. You’re actually kind of a butterface. But at least you’re not Katie Holmes, I like that.

LOL

[kalorama]

he was a force of nature, as was stated throughout the pre press coverage by nolan.

he had no beginning, he had no end.

that was the point. you look for closure, for a character which was not meant to have any, and to whcih it was stated he woudlnt have. no where was it promoted as the joker's life story with closure to boot


I don't think anyone said it was. But just because they didn't tie him up in a neat bow doesn't mean that (A) the movie wasn't promoted as Batman vs. joker (because it most certainly was) or (B) that there wasn't a "story arc" for the Joker because, again, there was.

[Monty_Cristo]

HEATH LEDGER

I can wait. Want to hear a story? Once upon a time, I had a wife. She was beautiful, like you. Er, no, I mean in complete contrast to you. You’re actually kind of a butterface. But at least you’re not Katie Holmes, I like that.

LOL

she was sexy in 'Secretary.'

[The Zapper]

she was sexy in 'Secretary.'

Hell yes she was. I still think she's sexy.

[ultramandingo]

............i saw her once in nyc on mott street - we kinda made eye contact then she quickly walked to the other side of the street - made my day

[Monty_Cristo]

............i saw her once in nyc on mott street - we kinda made eye contact then she quickly walked to the other side of the street - made my day

it's that mandingo charm, at work. she looks like she'd be fun to smoke pot with...if i did that sort of thing.

[Jared]

she was sexy in 'Secretary.'

Well that was several years ago, besides one tends to not notice her face as much when she's stark nekkid.

Anyway, saw this again on IMAX. For the first time I noticed a distracting mole near that Christian Bale has near the bridge of his nose, and I wasn't the only one. I think we've found Batman's new sidekick.



BAT-BALE

I saved you, Heath. That proves how committed I am to my sissy-pants moral code.

HEATH LEDGER

Huh. You didn’t seem to have a problem letting Liam Neeson die in the last movie, and all he did was blow up your house. I guess you loved your mansion more than Maggie Gyllenhaal. I don’t blame you, honestly.

BAT-BALE

I had to save you! You need to be in the next movie!

HEATH LEDGER.

Yeah… about that…

That is just so wrong...but so funny

[CBR News]

"The Dark Knight" crossed the 500 million mark this weekend, putting the beloved
Batman picture less than 100 million away from all-time record holder "Titanic,"
while moving up a spot in the week's Top 10.


Full article here (http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17906).

[1WEBHEAD]

And it earned every penny.

[Sean Walsh]

Not sure if it'll reach TITANIC - hope it does, but it's gonna have to stay in theatres a lot longer like Titanic did, and outlast the newcomers - but still....$500mil is awesome. :smile:

[Julusnc]

I wonder what is the number one best selling dvd of all - time? It may be possible for The Dark Knight to be top?

[mgs]

I wonder what is the number one best selling dvd of all - time? It may be possible for The Dark Knight to be top?

at one time, the highest grossing one was the Family Guy set, vol.1. But I don't know single dvd top one. Hmmm......

[Mia]

I have a quick question....why is it that whenever someone decides to compare box office revenue, the rate of inflation is never taken into account? If you were to factor into account the box office take for the Titanic in the year 2008, it would be $886,359,440. The Dark Knight has some serious catching up to do.

[StoneGold]

I have a quick question....why is it that whenever someone decides to compare box office revenue, the rate of inflation is never taken into account? If you were to factor into account the box office take for the Titanic in the year 2008, it would be $886,359,440. The Dark Knight has some serious catching up to do.

Yeah, and in ticket sales, they all pale before movies back when they were the only form of mass-market visual acting.

[GRANT!]

I have a quick question....why is it that whenever someone decides to compare box office revenue, the rate of inflation is never taken into account? If you were to factor into account the box office take for the Titanic in the year 2008, it would be $886,359,440. The Dark Knight has some serious catching up to do.

Because it's just too much math and doesn't make for interesting headlines.

It's basically so the studio can say "Hey look how well we did." Which they did. They made 500 million domestically. Which rarely happens these days.

BTW Gone With the Wind would be the top movie if inflation was adjusted.

[xarathos]

That's fantastic.

However, with all the money it costs to make movies these days it probably got back live $5.00.:smile:

[SnowTrooper]

Im still confused about how Titanic holds the record. A three hour romance/disaster movie with two leads that werent very famous at the time. How the hell did that stay on top of the box-office for 15 weeks? Did every single woman in America drag their boyfriends or husbands to go and see that movie?

I was only 6 when it came out, I hardly remember the phenomenon.


However, with all the money it costs to make movies these days it probably got back live $5.00.:smile:

Im curious how much money they spent to promote The Dark Knight. Does viral marketing cost alot?

[Legato]

I really hope that if The Dark Knight doesn't beat Titanic then it would atleast tie to it that was Titanic still wont be the top grossing movie.

[Tadhg]

I know a few sites that figure out boxoffice adjusted for inflation, but does anyone factor straight ticket sales? Around here at least, the price of tickets has outstripped inflation, so I'd be curious as to what ticket sales for all the recent box-office smashes from the last decade or two actually are.

[Frank]

I have a quick question....why is it that whenever someone decides to compare box office revenue, the rate of inflation is never taken into account? If you were to factor into account the box office take for the Titanic in the year 2008, it would be $886,359,440. The Dark Knight has some serious catching up to do.

800 domestic?

[The Zapper]

Im still confused about how Titanic holds the record. A three hour romance/disaster movie with two leads that werent very famous at the time. How the hell did that stay on top of the box-office for 15 weeks?

Look at what movies came out that year. It had no competition.

[EZMOHR]

Look at what movies came out that year. It had no competition.

Yeah, that LA Confidential was a piece of trash. Well, maybe B.O. wise I guess.

[Ronald Bryan]

I know a few sites that figure out boxoffice adjusted for inflation, but does anyone factor straight ticket sales? Around here at least, the price of tickets has outstripped inflation, so I'd be curious as to what ticket sales for all the recent box-office smashes from the last decade or two actually are.
Well, they're not really adjusted for inflation. Box Office Mojo actually adjusts for average ticket price for that year. They also use that to figure out ticket sales as an option.


Of course, that's why I have a minor dislike for the adjusted grosses, because movies cost more to get into now than just a few years ago, while the people paying are making the same, making going to a movie a larger financial cost.

[Mia]

Im still confused about how Titanic holds the record. A three hour romance/disaster movie with two leads that werent very famous at the time. How the hell did that stay on top of the box-office for 15 weeks? Did every single woman in America drag their boyfriends or husbands to go and see that movie?

I was only 6 when it came out, I hardly remember the phenomenon.



Im curious how much money they spent to promote The Dark Knight. Does viral marketing cost alot?


I liked Titanic when it came out but I only saw it once (and to be frank I only liked the last hour). Never understood the hoopla about it. But I tend to think movies like that (along with TDK) also tend to do good if there is nothing else to see.

[Ryan K]

Im still confused about how Titanic holds the record. A three hour romance/disaster movie with two leads that werent very famous at the time. How the hell did that stay on top of the box-office for 15 weeks? Did every single woman in America drag their boyfriends or husbands to go and see that movie?

I was only 6 when it came out, I hardly remember the phenomenon.

It was all repeat business. Titanic appealed to all those tween girls who had more spending power than anybody had previously realised. And they all went 5-10 times apeice. Repeat business on that large a scale is rare as hell.

The Dark Knight doesn't have a chance in hell at beating Titanic's #'s.

[Jared]

It was all repeat business. Titanic appealed to all those tween girls who had more spending power than anybody had previously realised. And they all went 5-10 times apeice. Repeat business on that large a scale is rare as hell.


Exactly. For tween-teen girls, Titanic was Star Wars.

[Jmacq1]

Dark Knight isn't going to be in theaters long enough to beat Titanic. It made what, 11 million over the four-day holiday weekend? Diminishing returns being what they are, and summer vacation pretty much being over for the teenage set (which kills the weekday grosses for everything) it'd probably have to be in theaters all the way through Christmas (probably longer) to get another $100 million.

They'll take it out of theaters and start prepping the DVD for a Christmas release well before then.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Dark Knight isn't going to be in theaters long enough to beat Titanic. It made what, 11 million over the four-day holiday weekend? Diminishing returns being what they are, and summer vacation pretty much being over for the teenage set (which kills the weekday grosses for everything) it'd probably have to be in theaters all the way through Christmas (probably longer) to get another $100 million.

They'll take it out of theaters and start prepping the DVD for a Christmas release well before then.

I agree. At the current rate I'd say it has the potential to get to $530 mil or a little more at most.

At the end of the day I think people will have to just appreciate the terrific run its had and not worry about Titanic. After all, not factoring in inflation, TDK is the only second movie to make $500 mil domestically, so its still pretty special.


Look at what movies came out that year. It had no competition.

Eh, I more attribute it to size/spectacle + marketing + "the tween" appeal.

The last factor always leaving me more then a little cold. I mean, with all the very real drama and stories that could have been drawn on from the Titanic why did we have to have some hoary cliché, the fictional star crossed lovers from different worlds, as the narrative vehicle?

[Muggs]

I agree. At the current rate I'd say it has the potential to get to $530 mil or a little more at most.

At the end of the day I think people will have to just appreciate the terrific run its had and not worry about Titanic. After all, not factoring in inflation, TDK is the only second movie to make $500 mil domestically, so its still pretty special.



Eh, I more attribute it to size/spectacle + marketing + "the tween" appeal.

The last factor always leaving me more then a little cold. I mean, with all the very real drama and stories that could have been drawn on from the Titanic why did we have to have some hoary cliché, the fictional star crossed lovers from different worlds, as the narrative vehicle?

Even James Cameron agree's with that. Unfortunately his obsession with Titanic really kicked in after the movie was done. He did an interview with Empire magazine (I think) a few years ago, in which he mentioned that with all the research he'd done on The Titanic he'd found hundreds of more interesting stories that could have the main narrative focus.

[JohnPopa]

One of the articles said 'Dark Knight' would have to do $800-$900 million to match the amount of actual ticket sales 'Titanic' had.

[Ontir]

I saw it again last weekend. The cinema was pretty full at that point. Not packed, but full. It was one of two screens showing the film at that location.

I intended to go see it in iMax yesterday, but was warned off by a friend who said it's still selling out on weeknights and that a holiday weekend would be next to impossible.

The film has legs!

[Jmacq1]

Not the kind of legs it'd need to get to $600 million.

[LtMarvel]

Not the kind of legs it'd need to get to $600 million.
Only because screenings will stop due to DVD release.

[Jmacq1]

Only because screenings will stop due to DVD release.

Sure, mathematically speaking, you could keep any movie in theaters long enough and it'd eventually surpass Titanic. Some would just take a lot longer to get there than others.

If the studio thought TDK had a realistic chance of beating Titanic in a reasonable (by the standards of today's moviemaking business) amount of time, they'd keep it in theaters. It doesn't, so they won't. You're right in that it's more profitable at this point for WB to pull it from theaters in another couple weeks and start prepping the DVD for a Christmas release, rather than leaving it in theaters to die a very slow, lingering death, (probably) making less money than new releases that WB could put on those screens.

[Phil Clark]

Sure, mathematically speaking, you could keep any movie in theaters long enough and it'd eventually surpass Titanic. Some would just take a lot longer to get there than others.

And there is no way any theater is going to show a movie for one hundred years. That's how long it would take most films to reach that level. So realistically, no... Not just any movie would surpass Titanic's box office numbers. But Dark Knight could potentially do it. Which is just amazing for a movie based on a comic book.

Although I doubt they will leave it in the theaters long enough to achieve that goal.

[The Batman]

Well, if we're going to give The Dark Knight an asterix because it doesn't get to stay in theatres as long I think we should also give Titanic one for not being allowed to make its money in 2008 dollars.

[4thHorseman]

Well, if we're going to give The Dark Knight an asterix because it doesn't get to stay in theatres as long I think we should also give Titanic one for not being allowed to make its money in 2008 dollars.

I wonder how well Titanic would actually fare with increased ticket prices.....I know if I could afford it, there would be plenty of movies I would have seen more

[The Batman]

I hope you'll forgive the terrible gender stereotyping I'm about to do, but I imagine that if there are guys who are willing to go see The Dark Knight four, five, even six times at current ticket prices that there'd be girls willing to do the same for a Titanic.

[kalorama]

Only because screenings will stop due to DVD release.

That's not the only reason they'll stop.

Dark Knight benefited somewhat from a lack of strong competition. As we move closer to the Holiday and Oscar seasons, that's likely going to change. Also, once the kids go back to school, it'll severely cut down on the repeat viewing audience.

[4thHorseman]

I hope you'll forgive the terrible gender stereotyping I'm about to do, but I imagine that if there are guys who are willing to go see The Dark Knight four, five, even six times at current ticket prices that there'd be girls willing to do the same for a Titanic.

Idk, I know a lot of people were thinking that was going to happen with Sex and the City...:confused:

[Tadhg]

Only because screenings will stop due to DVD release.


Screenings will stop because the audience drops. If theaters were still selling out multiple screens and multiple showings, they'd continue to have it on multiple screens.

[The Batman]

Idk, I know a lot of people were thinking that was going to happen with Sex and the City...:confused:


I'd imagine that says more about the ability of the Sex in the City movie to connect with the audience than it does the audience's willingness to see a movie multiple times.

[Black Atom]

I hope you'll forgive the terrible gender stereotyping I'm about to do, but I imagine that if there are guys who are willing to go see The Dark Knight four, five, even six times at current ticket prices that there'd be girls willing to do the same for a Titanic.

Thing is, everybody saw Titanic, though. It started slow, but as it picked up steam it became a phenomenon everyone had to get in on. It became a juggernaut at the same point in its lifecycle that TDK was starting to wind down.

[LtMarvel]

Sure, mathematically speaking, you could keep any movie in theaters long enough and it'd eventually surpass Titanic. Some would just take a lot longer to get there than others.

If the studio thought TDK had a realistic chance of beating Titanic in a reasonable (by the standards of today's moviemaking business) amount of time, they'd keep it in theaters. It doesn't, so they won't. You're right in that it's more profitable at this point for WB to pull it from theaters in another couple weeks and start prepping the DVD for a Christmas release, rather than leaving it in theaters to die a very slow, lingering death, (probably) making less money than new releases that WB could put on those screens.
Actually, WB is moving their boxbusters from the Fall to Summer...

[Jmacq1]

But even non-blockbusters will soon be at a point where they're making more money than TDK.

Look at it this way, a theater (in conjunction with WB) could keep TDK running on a screen from now until Christmas, even though after another month at best, it'll likely be down to one or two people in the cinema per showing on weekdays, maybe a dozen on weekends. Or they could put a half-arsed new release that fills half the theater for that same weekend. They'd still be making more money on the half-arsed new release than they would TDK.

Remember, a studios' profits are from -all- the movies they release all year, not just the ones that are successful (or mega-successful in TDK's case).

[Dr Cthulwho]

Thing is, everybody saw Titanic, though. It started slow, but as it picked up steam it became a phenomenon everyone had to get in on. It became a juggernaut at the same point in its lifecycle that TDK was starting to wind down.

That's true, it was one of those things people were seeing just to see what the fuss was all about. For a while Titanic was the new black (or the new dinosaurs, since everybody likes dinosaurs). Lots of repeat viewings certainly, but plenty of people going just once who usually wouldn't go to see a romance film masquerading as a disaster film (or vice versa).

Which was the spectacle and marketing aspects.

And of course the youtube/torrent/etc effect wasn't that much of a factor then.


I hope you'll forgive the terrible gender stereotyping I'm about to do, but I imagine that if there are guys who are willing to go see The Dark Knight four, five, even six times at current ticket prices that there'd be girls willing to do the same for a Titanic.

I don't know. As I've said I believe in addition to the "tween appeal" (for all those multiple viewings) of Titanic it benefited from the "spectacle". Something kind of unseen before, the scale etc.

I reckon it would still do very well, but I don't think it would do $600 mil well. Certainly in today's market the special affects draw card wouldn't be as significant.

[LtMarvel]

TDK still brought in $10 million this 3 day weekend. That's a long ways from 42nd on the box office list (X-Files, $97,000).

DVD sales are what kill the blockbusters the size of Dark Knight.

Thanks to the writer's strike, the studio doesn't have a great many films to profit from this year and next. That's why Star Trek and Harry Potter got moved back to 2009.

[Jmacq1]

Completely Unrelated Note:

http://chud.com/articles/articles/16196/1/IT039S-OFFICIAL-TWO-FACE-IS-DEAD/Page1.html

Looks like that particular line of speculation can be laid to rest.....

[Sean Whitmore]

Looks like that particular line of speculation can be laid to rest.....

I wouldn't count on it. The speculation didn't end over a month ago when Nolan came right out and said he was dead.


SEAN

[jackmcmanus21]

Titanic is a monster, and honestly the only movie I see surpassing it is TDK

[Titan76]

Titanic is a monster, and honestly the only movie I see surpassing it is TDK
TDK will not surpass Titanic. It needs over $90 million to do that and the summer for blockbuster movies is officially over. Everyone who wanted to see it did or anyone who wanted to is going to wait for the DVD now. TDK has already been in theaters for 7 weeks now and WB is going to want to get it to DVD asap because the longer it stays in the theaters the more money they lose and Christmas is coming up. Three to four months seems to be the longest Studios seem to think movies need to be in theaters nowa days.

[The Batman]

No, it needs to sell something like $400 million worth of tickets to catch up with Titanic. Another ninety-five million dollars or so worth of tickets will leave it tied with Star Wars: Episode I.

If it can make it to $544,606,000 before it comes out of theatres it will have done as well as Grease though. Take that Travolta!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

[kalorama]

I wouldn't count on it. The speculation didn't end over a month ago when Nolan came right out and said he was dead.


SEAN

No kidding. Here's a slightly longer interview on the same subject:

http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=7641

No sooner does Ecckhart say Harvey's dead than the interviewer shoot back with "That's not a problem in comic book movies. You could still come back."

[Phil Clark]

No, it needs to sell something like $400 million worth of tickets to catch up with Titanic. Another ninety-five million dollars or so worth of tickets will leave it tied with Star Wars: Episode I.

If it can make it to $544,606,000 before it comes out of theatres it will have done as well as Grease though. Take that Travolta!

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

But we aren't talking adjusted numbers, we are talking raw dollars, the mark by which Star Wars and Titanic were judged when they made their money. So TDK is closer than you say just by total un-adjusted dollars.

[mattx110]

No kidding. Here's a slightly longer interview on the same subject:

http://www.superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=7641

No sooner does Ecckhart say Harvey's dead than the interviewer shoot back with "That's not a problem in comic book movies. You could still come back."
Screw him. People in movies completely unrelated to comic books come back. Don't pawn off that kinda bs just because comics are known for that sort of thing.
They should bring Eckhart back as his twin brother though. That'd be awesome.

[IamtheRock3]

Screw him. People in movies completely unrelated to comic books come back. Don't pawn off that kinda bs just because comics are known for that sort of thing.
They should bring Eckhart back as his twin brother though. That'd be awesome.

just watch prison break and lost

Two face need a bigger roll in full two face roll

think before Keith died, it was going to be Two face Vs Joker the next movie

[Dr Cthulwho]

Screw him. People in movies completely unrelated to comic books come back. Don't pawn off that kinda bs just because comics are known for that sort of thing.
They should bring Eckhart back as his twin brother though. That'd be awesome.

Heh, they could have Two-Face become like Murdoc from Macgyver. At the end of every future film it appears he dies after falling from a great height while screaming "BATMAN!" but next movie... it turns out he somehow survived!


think before Keith died, it was going to be Two face Vs Joker the next movie

Heath? Though I wonder what kind of Joker Keith Richards would make.

[Pauly T]

Heath? Though I wonder what kind of Joker Keith Richards would make.

Well, he made an ok pirate...

[Jmacq1]

But we aren't talking adjusted numbers, we are talking raw dollars, the mark by which Star Wars and Titanic were judged when they made their money. So TDK is closer than you say just by total un-adjusted dollars.

You're not talking adjusted dollars. If you're OK with the blatant illusion that Dark Knight is the second most successful movie of all time (or even that Titanic is the most successful), I guess that's your right. "Un-adjusted dollars" just happened to be worth a lot more when Star Wars came out, or even when Titanic came out.

Some of us just understand the reality.

[Phil Clark]

You're not talking adjusted dollars. If you're OK with the blatant illusion that Dark Knight is the second most successful movie of all time (or even that Titanic is the most successful), I guess that's your right. "Un-adjusted dollars" just happened to be worth a lot more when Star Wars came out, or even when Titanic came out.

Some of us just understand the reality.

When people report on the money made by any movie, they don't give it as adjusted dollars. In fact, every article I have read points out that the figures are NOT adjusted for inflation, and that if they were DK wouldn't even be close. But the industry (film makers) don't measure in adjusted dollars, they measure in actual dollars made. So by that measure, DK could conceivably pass Titanic.

But I am not (and no one else is for that matter) trying to suggest that DK is more successful than Titanic. Only that it has the potential to make more money than Titanic did.

[Pauly T]

But I am not (and no one else is for that matter) trying to suggest that DK is more successful than Titanic. Only that it has the potential to make more money than Titanic did.

Which really means so very little.

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

Any thoughts?

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/message.jspa?messageID=2004786204

[The Batman]

The Japanese are just smarter than us?

They're more immune to the hype?

They're waiting on that Most Excellent Super Bat movie?

[Bill Thompson]

Unlike people in the US they were able to see TDK for the very flawed movie that it is?

[ultramandingo]

.........it buildings look to realistick not cardbordy enuff - plus you cant see the the strings when he flies - and whats with the no zippers down the back !

[Your Imaginary Pal]

because bale dishonored his mother and sister, you know how we americans hated cruise for exclaiming his love for holmes by jumping up & down on a couch....some behavior is just unacceptable.

[mattx110]

They're more immune to the hype?

Definitely not true.

[Dr Cthulwho]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7510590']Any thoughts?

http://dcboards.warnerbros.com/web/message.jspa?messageID=2004786204

I've often found myself saddened when I see a great foreign language film but then find out it hasn't done as well as what could easily be considered Hollywood trash (of course it doesn't help when so many nifty foreign language and art house films get so few cinemas showing them).

Different cultures, different expectations etc. I don't think its a case of hating the film, or a case of the film being bad because of it. Just a case of it not being their cup of tea. Or not being what they want to see at this point in time.


The Japanese are just smarter than us?

They're more immune to the hype?

They're waiting on that Most Excellent Super Bat movie?

Why do you say just "smarter than us"? I mean, its not like TDK hasn't done top earning business in every market its opened in other then Japan - Its 2nd at the moment in terms of international takings for a 2008 film, and will certainly outstrip the 1st, Indiana Jones 4, before its done (especially considering how a few big markets have only just done opening).

It's even made a fairly impressive amount in South Korea ($18 mil+), in whats a significantly smaller market then Japan. And it got the same level of critical approval in the UK and Australia as it did in the US.

Which would probably rule out the hype factor as well, since a lot of these places didn't have the same build up as the US (that, and I've been to Japan before, and I saw no evidence of immunity to hype. They really get into things over there).

[BYC]

I haven't seen the movie, so I can't judge fully, but I suspect it's because Batman wasn't as good as he can be.

Batman, even with all his flaws, is generally very good at "winning". To compare it to an anime, the main character might have flaws, but they will win and usually do it with a bang. From what I understand, this movie does not have that. Japan's connection with Batman isn't strong enough to overcome this factor that US audiences either accept or love.

[Jmacq1]

I dunno what's playing in Japan right now besides TDK, but it should be considered that there very well may be something playing opposite that has a much stronger "hook" for Japanese audiences. Something (or even someone in the case of a movie star) that's a Really Big Deal (tm) for them that we've never even heard of over here.

The oppressive darkness of the film might not be a huge selling point with them either.

[The Batman]

Definitely not true.

So they're not immune to The Dark Knight hype? Okay. If they're so hyped, then why aren't they going to see it?

[The Batman]

Why do you say just "smarter than us"? I mean, its not like TDK hasn't done top earning business in every market its opened in other then Japan - Its 2nd at the moment in terms of international takings for a 2008 film, and will certainly outstrip the 1st, Indiana Jones 4, before its done (especially considering how a few big markets have only just done opening).

It's even made a fairly impressive amount in South Korea ($18 mil+), in whats a significantly smaller market then Japan. And it got the same level of critical approval in the UK and Australia as it did in the US.

Which would probably rule out the hype factor as well, since a lot of these places didn't have the same build up as the US (that, and I've been to Japan before, and I saw no evidence of immunity to hype. They really get into things over there).


"Us" = all the people all over the world who rushed out to see the movie so much.

[Dr Cthulwho]

"Us" = all the people all over the world who rushed out to see the movie so much.

Ok then. But that is a quite a lot of people for Japan to be smarter than. :tongue:

[Jmacq1]

So they're not immune to The Dark Knight hype? Okay. If they're so hyped, then why aren't they going to see it?

I think he meant more along the lines of "They're not immune to hype in general" which is definitely true. But Dark Knight might not have been as hyped in Japan as it was in other places, and I'm not sure how popular Batman is overall in Japan.

They have their own superheroes, after all, and Batman probably didn't get introduced over there until (compared to how long he's been around over here) relatively recently.

[kmeyers]

Oh good! Finally a thread to bash The Dark Knight!

[Dr Cthulwho]

Oh good! Finally a thread to bash The Dark Knight!

It'll probably get merged with the All-Star thread anyway, but I don't think its for bashing. Some people are just surprised TDK didn't do as well in Japan as its done in every other country its opened in and wanted to know why that might be.

[mgs]

cultural differences? national identities? on Heidi's site, there was some link to someone, a studio head, I think, who linked the successes of the recent superhero films to the state of the US right now, with things being bad, economy, war, etc. Is Japan going through these same things?

[Dr Cthulwho]

cultural differences? national identities? on Heidi's site, there was some link to someone, a studio head, I think, who linked the successes of the recent superhero films to the state of the US right now, with things being bad, economy, war, etc. Is Japan going through these same things?

It's always an interesting factor, the social one. I always enjoyed those discussions in school about how certain genres wax and wane due to the national conscious at the time, and what we needed our films to be doing and saying to us beyond just the entertainment factor.

Of course I haven't thought about it in a long while, so I'm not sure what applies at the moment.

[JCAll]

Remember that 'Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny' video that made it's way around the internet a few years ago? Remember how the first thing that happened was Batman showing up and attacking Godzilla? This is payback.

And why the hell do I know that?

[StoneGold]

Not enough tentacle rape.

[Nefarius]

Not enough tentacle rape.

QFT.:cool:

[Subotai]

I think a new Miyazaki film has been owning the box office recently. Besides that, just different strokes, I suppose.

[ultramandingo]

..........any one know how speed racer did - or didnt do?

[Black Atom]

If you look at Japanese films of the same genre they're usually more...

...fuck, I'll just say it. They're actually fun. I think the audience over there would probably think TDK looks pretty boring compared to Japanese action/suuperhero films.

[Cheimison]

Probably for the same reason that some of the most popular superhuman characters in Japanese animes are effeminate, socially inept, sexually immature girlboys who don't respond to direct questions; and Batman is a huge muscular billionaire who works out all the time and says whatever he wants and doesn't give a damn who doesn't like it.

[Jake V]

Batman just isn't effeminate enough for the Japanese.

[Cheimison]

Batman just isn't effeminate enough for the Japanese.
That sort of nonsensical annoying character (I mean, I dislike those people in real life) are why I can't watch animes/read mangas aside from DBZ, Street Fighter 2 and Berserk. Those emo 110lb heroes need to get slapped and told to stop being whiny bitches. I've known plenty of angsty nerds, and I've never met one person that was a socially and sexually awkward as those anime boys.

[Gary Joyce]

All the Batman films have done poorly in Japan.

I once read an interview with a manga writer who gave Batman as an example of a hero that the Japanese wouldn't like - he basically said it's the fact that he's merely human, with no powers, no destiny, no fate or spiritual aspect, and I guess there's no happy ending possible either.

Basically the Japanese dont like their superheroes dark. Thats just the way it is.

Ironic though since Japan produces some of the most fucked up cinema around. Ichi the Killer is just a really fucked up super hero movie whether anyone realizes it or not. If they can enjoy that then they should be able to enjoy a movie that is actually quality.

[Toku King]

Unlike people in the US they were able to see TDK for the very flawed movie that it is?

If you think "The Dark Knight" is flawed, then you are flawed.

[the goddamn batman]

That sort of nonsensical annoying character (I mean, I dislike those people in real life)

^^^This is just a gem right here. That's amazing. Thank you for that.


are why I can't watch animes/read mangas aside from DBZ, Street Fighter 2 and Berserk. Those emo 110lb heroes need to get slapped and told to stop being whiny bitches. I've known plenty of angsty nerds, and I've never met one person that was a socially and sexually awkward as those anime boys.

...


Ironic though since Japan produces some of the most fucked up cinema around. Ichi the Killer is just a really fucked up super hero movie whether anyone realizes it or not. If they can enjoy that then they should be able to enjoy a movie that is actually quality.

It's pretty much (and not in a quality sense) Ghetto-Batman and Joker, but, like, with a weird S&M slant...

I don't think "quality", has anything to do with it. But, I dunno, that's a subjective assesment that I'm not willing to bother getting into.

[mattx110]

If you think "The Dark Knight" is flawed, then you are flawed.
Um... I think it is. Doesn't seem that ridiculous to me. Script seems rushed, Gordon's dialogue was either overly long-winded to exposit or directly repeating a line he said earlier in the film. I'm sure there's more things that aren't awesome about the film.

Maybe the dialogue translation sucks?

[ChrisIII]

Spider-Man, on the other hand, seems to be pretty big in Japan-there's even been manga and TV series based around him, although VERY loosely based on the American comic.

[The Mutt]

Anybody know if it was dubbed or subtitled?

[GRANT!]

..........any one know how speed racer did - or didnt do?

It didn't do very well over there. It opened at #5.

[GRANT!]

Anybody know if it was dubbed or subtitled?

Probably dubbed. Most American movies are dubbed over seas.

I really want to hear Batman's voice in Japanese.

[JCAll]

Batman just isn't effeminate enough for the Japanese.

That's Robin's job :tongue:

[Sean Whitmore]

Maybe the dialogue translation sucks?

If every anime I've ever seen is any indication, at some point during the movie, Batman tells Joker, "I can never forgive you!"


SEAN

[ForeverTaskmaster]

Unlike people in the US they were able to see TDK for the very flawed movie that it is?
That must be it, because the movie was flawed. I also think that they like their manga characters more than the US comic characters, so it's not difficult to not visit TDK.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Um... I think it is. Doesn't seem that ridiculous to me. Script seems rushed, Gordon's dialogue was either overly long-winded to exposit or directly repeating a line he said earlier in the film. I'm sure there's more things that aren't awesome about the film.

Of course it has flaws, every movie does. I guess people debate whether the sum of those flaws (like any movie):

A. Means its flawed but still great/good
B. Not nearly flawed enough to be considered flawed great/good
C. Too flawed to be considered great/good


That must be it, because the movie was flawed.

I don't think that would play to much into it - because you actually have to see a movie to appreciate whether it is flawed or not, unless there is enough publicity/word of mouth about it being flawed, so you can then reasonably say "yeah, I've heard its very flawed, lets not see it."

Now, in the case of TDK this obviously isn't the case, considering the massive approval its gotten from the public and critics.

No, the Japenese however just aren't seeing it in numbers to begin with, even during the open week, so it seems unlikely they have found some flaw so great they, as a populous nation, don't even need to see it to know "what a flawed movie it is" (and I'll say it, by my reckoning, the flaws such as they are, are nothing that stops TDK being a great movie)

However things like tone, themes etc are something you can know about before hand and and that can let you say "lets not see TDK, it's not what I want in a Japanese superhero movie. And Batman doesn't ask Mr. Fox to build him a Bat-Mech".

[Titan76]

All the Batman films have done poorly in Japan.

I once read an interview with a manga writer who gave Batman as an example of a hero that the Japanese wouldn't like - he basically said it's the fact that he's merely human, with no powers, no destiny, no fate or spiritual aspect, and I guess there's no happy ending possible either.

Basically the Japanese dont like their superheroes dark. Thats just the way it is.

Ironic though since Japan produces some of the most fucked up cinema around. Ichi the Killer is just a really fucked up super hero movie whether anyone realizes it or not. If they can enjoy that then they should be able to enjoy a movie that is actually quality.
I've heard the samething. It seems the Japanese consider Batman to be too dark of a character. Here's an article (http://www.slashfilm.com/2008/08/28/japan-hates-the-dark-knight/) that also talks about this and shows a Japanese critic response to TDK.


But I don’t think Miyazaki is entirely to blame. Looking at the top films in the Japanese box office for the past few weeks, it’s clear that Japan seems to have no love for The Dark Knight. In its second week of release, it was bested by The Mummy: Tomb of the Dragon Emperor and, brace yourselves, What Happens in Vegas. Yes, an Ashton Kutcher/Cameron Diaz suckfest defeated The Dark Knight. This week, it lost out to Sex and the City, the Mummy 3 again (?!), and Star Wars the Clone Wars.

Film Junk points to critic Chika Minagawa, who offers the following thoughts on why Japanese audiences aren’t fawning over the film:

The story is very pessimistic. It has a dark and gloomy texture that Japanese movie fans do not find appealing in a ‘comic hero’ film… Japanese movie fans expect such films to be fun and action packed, for the hero to be attractive, for the villain to be loud and outrageous, and for the movie itself to be easy to understand and light.

I’m not sure how exactly The Dark Knight fails to meet that criteria, except for perhaps being too dark. Then again, it’s not as if dark superheroes are all that new to Japan–anime is widely recognized for its ability to bring mature themes to animation.

[Phil Clark]

Which really means so very little.

Actually... in Hollywood apparently it means everything. Hollywood is a money machine, so the bottom line dollars and cents are all they care about. Not quality.

They don't even care if a film is "considered" to be successful by calculating ticket prices and adjusted dollars. All they care about is did it make money. And Dark Knight made money, and continues to make money, hand over fist. And it will make a ton more when it comes out on disc.

So split hairs all you want. It won't take anything away from either film either way you want to look at it.

[the goddamn batman]

Maybe they all downloaded shitty cam versions from a certain bay of pirates months ago when it came out...?

[[]D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite]

The Japanese are just smarter than us?

They're more immune to the hype?

They're waiting on that Most Excellent Super Bat movie?


Unlike people in the US they were able to see TDK for the very flawed movie that it is?

And crap like Mummy 3 and What Happens in Vegas are actually BETTER?? Are they less flawed than TDK? (Hmmm... I guess since TDK is overated and overhyped in the US, maybe those films were underrated and misunderstood by the American audience.)

There are even rumours that the (Schumacher) films had better takes. So stuff like Batman and Robin is actually better?

The thing is... it's not just that it did bad, It's what it competed against that performed better against it that confuses me the most.

Adding to and compounding the bewilderment is that not only does anime and manga culture heavily reference Batman (The Big O for example), but there have been a near-infinite number of 'dark' or 'complicated' manga and anime productions. WAY too many to count. In fact, most of the anime and manga culture is actually centered on such.

[The Xenos]

Anybody know if it was dubbed or subtitled?From what I saw, it depends what showing you go to. I saw Pirates of the Caribbean 3 while over there and we made sure to go to the subtitled showing.

Ironic though since Japan produces some of the most fucked up cinema around. Ichi the Killer is just a really fucked up super hero movie whether anyone realizes it or not. If they can enjoy that then they should be able to enjoy a movie that is actually quality.
Not that Ichi the Killer was a box office smash. I think even in Japan he's more of a cult favorite. We have directors with more cult followings like David Lynch or David Fincher. That doesn't mean they pull in numbers that someone more mainstream like Michael Bay does. All these twisted Japanese films that are cult hits over here? That doesn't mean they were that popular over there either.

Personally, I like Batman having a story closer to The French Connection than Spider-man. Clearly, that's not the Batman Japan was looking for.

Meanwhile, nice to see 20th Century Boys doing well. Plus, well, it was a given that a Miyazaki film is going to do well.

[Black Atom]

Ironic though since Japan produces some of the most fucked up cinema around. Ichi the Killer is just a really fucked up super hero movie whether anyone realizes it or not. If they can enjoy that then they should be able to enjoy a movie that is actually quality.

Different genre, though. I'm not sure the expectation would be the same going to a movie in the action/superhero genre.

[Jmacq1]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7521575']Adding to and compounding the bewilderment is that not only does anime and manga culture heavily reference Batman (The Big O for example), but there have been a near-infinite number of 'dark' or 'complicated' manga and anime productions. WAY too many to count. In fact, most of the anime and manga culture is actually centered on such.

Actually anime and manga encompasses a lot more than just the "dark and complicated" stuff, but the point you don't touch on is that the "dark and complicated" manga/anime still tend to have the "traditional Japanese protagonist." The deeply flawed, borderline neurotic "hero" TDK Batman may have his share of psychological hangups, but they're not really emphasized, and he's virtually a saint in terms of his heroism and behavior in the film. The only possible exception being his "interrogation" of the Joker.

I mean, not that it wouldn't have been totally awesome if right about the time the Batman and Joker face off at the end, the Joker spontaneously turns into a giant tentacle beast, and knocks Batman unconscious, where he then has a dream of a naked Rachel Dawes explaining the secrets of the universe to him, and then he wakes up and uses his newly-unleashed psychic might to turn all of Gotham into a smoking crater....

Yeah, that would have been AWESOME.

[jesse_custer]

Bale is on the level about the appeal of The Dark Knight:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/09/09/oscar.outlook.ap/index.html

"It's the genre thing again, but hey, look, I'm very happy with what I did and what I set out to do. But it's not award-worthy. It's not the kind of thing that gets it. Listen, Heath's performance is extraordinary, and I'm quite happy to say he steals the show. He does, absolutely. He's just phenomenal in it."

[The Batman]

D[]/\/\[]D @ Nite/So-tite;7521575']And crap like Mummy 3 and What Happens in Vegas are actually BETTER?? Are they less flawed than TDK? (Hmmm... I guess since TDK is overated and overhyped in the US, maybe those films were underrated and misunderstood by the American audience.)

There are even rumours that the (Schumacher) films had better takes. So stuff like Batman and Robin is actually better?

No, just better at appealing to mainstream Japanese audiences who might not go for dour and pretentious like Western audiences do.


The thing is... it's not just that it did bad, It's what it competed against that performed better against it that confuses me the most.

It shouldn't be all that confusing. Different cultures appreciate different things differently.


Adding to and compounding the bewilderment is that not only does anime and manga culture heavily reference Batman (The Big O for example), but there have been a near-infinite number of 'dark' or 'complicated' manga and anime productions. WAY too many to count. In fact, most of the anime and manga culture is actually centered on such.

Well, The Dark Knight isn't really all that complicated but I digress . . . .

You know, "dark" is a very broad term isn't it? It practically a buzz word now and it doesn't describe things nearly as well as we think it does. As Jmacq1 pointed out, the dark stuff the Japanese go for is very different from the dark of the last Batman movie.

[The Batman]

Ok then. But that is a quite a lot of people for Japan to be smarter than. :tongue:

Somebody has to be the smartest person in the room on this, it might as well be them.

[The Batman]

If you think "The Dark Knight" is flawed, then you are flawed.

You're not serious with this are you?

[the goddamn batman]

You're not serious with this are you?

C'mon, you know he is.

[The Batman]

C'mon, you know he is.

I know, but I'm trying to be good and at least give him the benefit of the doubt or, you know, an out.

[Dr Cthulwho]

Somebody has to be the smartest person in the room on this, it might as well be them.

Indeed... although I'm not sure what effect Japan finding some appeal in awful romantic comedy like What Happens in Vegas has on the overall smart factor. :biggrin:

[Wolf-Man]

gotham city

[Cam63]

You must be new, Jordana.

...and Welcome.

[1WEBHEAD]

What is the name of the sprawling, skyscraper-lined city where The Dark Knight is set?

I believe it's Chicago.

[drwho]

When will studios learn that no one gives an f about robin. I heard the guy from transformers was going to be robin

[kmeyers]

When will studios learn that no one gives an f about robin. I heard the guy from transformers was going to be robin

That's just a stupid rumor. Nolan and Bale have both said(more than once)that they won't be a part of any movie that has Robin in it.

[Sean Whitmore]

When will studios learn that no one gives an f about robin.

When it becomes true?

Maybe?


SEAN

[Jigsaw]

I'm still wondering where people got the notion that Robin isn't important and doesn't have a fanbase? The only time Robin sucks is when the writer behind him sucks.

Saw TDK twice in theaters (once opening day, and then a week later) but I definitely won't be seeing it again when it's re-released, especially since I should be getting the DVD either for my b-day or Christmas.

[drwho]

I just dont see the need to have that type of character in these bat flicks. This batman is hardcore and should stay that way.

[Jigsaw]

I do agree that Robin shouldn't be in this particular franchise, and the large reason is because this Batman has only been known for a little over a year (as stated by the Joker) so to bring a Robin so early would be a little pointless. Robin should always be brought in towards Batman's mid/late career.

I kind of stopped following news about a TDK sequel after a while, but I'm guessing there's no official word on villains yet?

[The Joker]

I do agree that Robin shouldn't be in this particular franchise, and the large reason is because this Batman has only been known for a little over a year (as stated by the Joker) so to bring a Robin so early would be a little pointless. Robin should always be brought in towards Batman's mid/late career.

I suppose I agree that Robin shouldnt be in Nolan's Bat-flicks. But mainly due to the notion that Nolan isnt keen on introducing him. And if that's true, then fine. Dont use him. I certainly have no desire to see a half assed Robin introduction due to studio pressure, which I dont believe Nolan would put up with for very long anyways to be perfectly honest.

[Jigsaw]

It's better to let director's do their thing, rather than force them to enter a certain character into the fray, let them do it by their own admission, or they'll purposely screw it up.

[drwho]

I thought of the only acceptable way to put robin in this franchise in my opinion. I wouldnt mind some type of adaptation to the death in the family storyline. The way they could do it is have robin already in the film and just show like flashbacks about how he met Robin and trained him and then have the joker show up and off Robin half way through the film and bruce goes after the joker and says something like once again im this city's lone protector and never again will I bring innocents to fight in my battle. Some philosophical bs like that could work. :wink:

[the goddamn batman]

The best say to do Robin is Carrie Kelly. Not the character so much as the self appointed Robin character. It fits the inspiration and escalation themes addressed so far.

But I'd just rather not have Robin at all.

[hoffmandu]

Robin can fit into this series just fine. Just gotta tough him up. Sometimes even Batman needs some help. With a bit of quality writing, who's to say.

[Totoro Man]

It's better to let director's do their thing, rather than force them to enter a certain character into the fray, let them do it by their own admission, or they'll purposely screw it up.

well, I'm really glad that the Wachowski brothers didn't get what they wanted with the first Matrix movie-- Kevin Costner as Neo (if the rumor was true) doesn't sound that great to me.

for directors who've proven themselves time and time again--then yeah, I think so. I always felt like Spiderman 3 had too friggin many villians jammed into it because the studio people REALLY wanted Venom in there and Raimi didn't.

[Jigsaw]

SM-3 was a good movie, but not great like the first two because it lacked character development (except for the Sandman, maybe) and there was too much Kirsten Dunst. I do think there needs to be a limit on the amount of villains appearing in one film, unless it's a team of bad guys or something.

[the goddamn batman]

I thought Batman Begins handled it rather well... but it really only had the one major villain.

[kmeyers]

I thought Batman Begins handled it rather well... but it really only had the one major villain.

Which one are you considering the major one? Ra's, Scarecrow, or Falcone?

[the goddamn batman]

Ra's because he's the beginning, middle, end and the reason the other villains are in teh story... but yeah, that was kind of my point.:smile:

[Jigsaw]

The thing about Begins is it had a bunch of villains, but as you said, there was technically only one main villain, and that's why BB handled it so well. TDK, on the other hand, had two major villains, and less supporting villains, per se.

[kmeyers]

The thing about Begins is it had a bunch of villains, but as you said, there was technically only one main villain, and that's why BB handled it so well. TDK, on the other hand, had two major villains, and less supporting villains, per se.

Huh?

TDK had one major villain and a few supporting villains, almost exactly like Begins.

Joker is in the beginning middle and end. Scarecrow is briefly in the beginning, Maroni isn't a big character, and Two-Face shows up in the end.

[Jigsaw]

Yes, but Harvey/Two-Face is the backbone of the entire film, and his rise & downfall were very essential to the movie, hence why I think he was just as big a villain as the Joker.

[Titan76]

well, I'm really glad that the Wachowski brothers didn't get what they wanted with the first Matrix movie-- Kevin Costner as Neo (if the rumor was true) doesn't sound that great to me.
Will Smith was suppose to be Neo but turned it down and did Wild Wild West instead.


for directors who've proven themselves time and time again--then yeah, I think so. I always felt like Spiderman 3 had too friggin many villians jammed into it because the studio people REALLY wanted Venom in there and Raimi didn't.
Avi Arad(film's executive producer and then CEO of Marvel) wanted Venom in the movie because he is the fan favorite villain, so he pressured Raimi to bring Venom in.

[hoffmandu]

Yes, but Harvey/Two-Face is the backbone of the entire film, and his rise & downfall were very essential to the movie, hence why I think he was just as big a villain as the Joker.

I would call Dent/ TF more of a major plotpoint than a major villian.

[the goddamn batman]

Yes, but Harvey/Two-Face is the backbone of the entire film, and his rise & downfall were very essential to the movie, hence why I think he was just as big a villain as the Joker.

Except that he wasn't.

[Jigsaw]

Will Smith was suppose to be Neo but turned it down and did Wild Wild West instead.


Avi Arad(film's executive producer and then CEO of Marvel) wanted Venom in the movie because he is the fan favorite villain, so he pressured Raimi to bring Venom in.

Yeah, but that doesn't excuse Raimi from not attempting to do the best job possible with Venom's character.

I'm still hoping that Two-Face returns for the third film, but if he doesn't, no huge deal. I'm still somewhat against recasting the Joker, but if they could get someone who could do a decent job and not try too hard to imitate what Heath did, I guess I could go for it.

Maybe get Depp for the role if they decide on a Joker recast?