Why do people think Superman is better than Batman

[kingofstuff]

Ok seriously I've looked at many polls on websites asking who the greatest superheroe of all time is and Superman seems to receive more votes than Batman. When your thinking about who is more well known you have to observe their popularity in pop culture. Batman seems to have more success than Supes. He's had more action figures than Superman, he was the first superhero to have a criticly acclaimed animated series, and even when it comes to movies Bats has outdone Superman. Batman is also considered by many comic book fans to be a superior character. Superman only predates Batman by a year, and he's really not the first superheroe. Many think Bats would'nt exist if it wasn't for Superman. But Batman and Superman are two comepletely different characters, heck the only true comparison of the two is the fact that they both wear capes and their underwear inside out. Another reason I think Bats is superior to Supes is because he has a superior rouges gallary.
I dont think any one can argue with that I mean Bats has the Joker, Catwoman, the Riddler, Mr.Freeze, Ras al ghul, and Clayface. And while Bats has some lame enemys( Penguin I'm looking at you) he still trumps Supes overall. I mean the only really good enemys Supes has is Lex Luthor, Braniac, and sometimes Bizzaro(I don't count Darkseid he shouldn't be a Superman villain). So to sum everything up Batman trumps Superman(and pretty much every other superheroe) in just about every category. So pretty much what I'm trying to ask is why is why do people see Superman as being more iconic than Batman when over the years over the years he's pretty much outdone him in everything. Btw I have nothing against Superman I was just wondering how people see him as being a more iconic Superhero than Batman.

[Samuraixsithlord]

please don't get it started.

Superman is considered the greatest because for lack of a better phrase he is. In terms of popculture Batman probably has more material, but it was Superman who started it all. when Batman showed up he was some PI with a costume on and a specialized bat gun (an actual gun with bullets) nothing super about him. in comics continuity Superman man saves the planet several times on a yearly basis while Batman takes care of the street level stuff. Also the fact is that Superman is a widely known figure around the world while batman is still considered an Urben myth by just about everyone not living in Gothem

[Your Imaginary Pal]

Superman defines the archetype. He is looked at as flawless with trueblue American Values. You can see his face, he has a brighter color scheme.
(altough he has a secret id) He doesn't really operate in secrecy, in the shadows. He has that wholesome midwest upbrining, and his alter ego is more of an everyman.

I like Batman more as a hero, but I could see why people would think Superman is more of a hero.

[Ekko]

I can see how someone could make a case for Batman over Superman being the greatest superhero. I would say Superman, but you're exaggerating some stuff.


he was the first superhero to have a criticly acclaimed animated series,

The Fleischer cartoons came out long before the Timm series and it was every
bit as critically acclaimed.


and even when it comes to movies Bats has outdone Superman.

You'll find just as many people who liked the first two Superman movies as people who liked Batman and Batman Returns (or Batman Forever), and SR outdid Begins at the box office.


Another reason I think Bats is superior to Supes is because he has a superior rouges gallary.
I dont think any one can argue with that I mean Bats has the Joker, Catwoman, the Riddler, Mr.Freeze, Ras al ghul, and Clayface. And while Bats has some lame enemys( Penguin I'm looking at you) he still trumps Supes overall. I mean the only really good enemys Supes has is Lex Luthor, Braniac, and sometimes Bizzaro(I don't count Darkseid he shouldn't be a Superman villain).

You're dead on about Batman having a far quality rogues gallery though.

As I said, personally, I think Supes is greater than Bats, but I nonetheless love Batman (he's my second favorite character), and I could see how you could make a case for him over Superman. But you could just as easily make a case for Superman.

[MaxofSteel]

The basic explanation IMO is that Superman is considered to be the people's savior, while Bats is more of a hero to be feared and avoided by his enemies.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Well, here I go:

Superman is the one who started it all.
He is the archetypal Superhero.
Hence, he's the template with which every other hero is measured.
He is the symbol of Truth and Justice.
He's known all over the world. This is not the case with Bats.
Superman is light, whereas Bats is darkness.
As for his enemies: Luthor, Darkseid, Brainiac, Bizarro, Mr. Mxyzptlk, Zod, Manchester Black, The Cyborg Superman, Mongul...
Supes is more of a pop culture icon than Bats.

Plus, it is now that Bats has more merchandise than Supes (if any), mainly because of the movies and TV series. Superman has always had merchandise for more than 60 years.

[van-zee]

Just thought I'd mention that there are five fictional characters known the world over. These are (and I think this is the right order):

King Arthur
Mickey Mouse
Robin Hood
Superman
Sherlock Holmes

Batman may have more "exposure" in America (although I doubt the validity of that claim), but Superman is an icon know across the Earth.

[trickster]

Just thought I'd mention that there are five fictional characters known the world over. These are (and I think this is the right order):

King Arthur
Mickey Mouse
Robin Hood
Superman
Sherlock Holmes

Batman may have more "exposure" in America (although I doubt the validity of that claim), but Superman is an icon know across the Earth.

Actually, you left out Spider-man. Can't argue with 1,5 billion dollar earnings for his movies. And as for Batman not known all over the world? Maybe in the Amazonian jungle or in Tibet.

[Darth Joker]

A few things working against Batman...

1. He has no superpowers. Hence, the very term "superhero" is incredibly somewhat questionable to apply to him.

2. In recent decades, Batman has become increasingly brooding, and dark. This naturally makes him seem less heroic to Joe Blow Average than the relatively light, and colorful, Superman.

3. The bat embargo is hurting him. Smallville has done extremely well, and I think that it's helped to raise Superman's image in the current mainstream culture. Batman isn't benefiting from that in the least since Bruce Wayne has never been on Smallville, due to the bat embargo.

4. When you come right down to it, going toe-to-toe with characters like the Anti-Monitor, Darkseid, and Doomsday, and defeating them in purely physical contest, is going to get you more 'ooos' and 'aaaass' than taking out psychopaths in Gotham City.

Now, I love both characters, and I personally think that Batman has a much more encaptivating backstory than Supes, but Superman simple defines the superhero genre. In fact, why do you think they're called superheoes. ;)

[Lord of Denial]

I am going to go with people have different opinions and tastes.

[Hellcow]

I like both characters.

But what I find interesting to consider is:

1. that Superman is NOT a man, he is an alien.

2. With such strong powers, it seems that superman is not usually risking a lot, where as Batman would risk his life everyday. It would be a hard life being Batman, but for most of the time being Superman would be easy. So while Superman maybe Super, Batman might be the greater hero? (Unless you bring in the "motivated by revenge" arguement.

3. The way Superman is written is that he is an action hero that exists in a world very similar to the one we experience every day. But if such a being truely existed, wouldn't our world and the way we do things change so dramatically that we might not even recognise it?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I like both characters.

But what I find interesting to consider is:

1. that Superman is NOT a man, he is an alien.

:confused:


2. With such strong powers, it seems that superman is not usually risking a lot, where as Batman would risk his life everyday. It would be a hard life being Batman, but for most of the time being Superman would be easy. So while Superman maybe Super, Batman might be the greater hero? (Unless you bring in the "motivated by revenge" arguement.

But it has been proven that Superman is willing to die to save humankind.


3. The way Superman is written is that he is an action hero that exists in a world very similar to the one we experience every day. But if such a being truely existed, wouldn't our world and the way we do things change so dramatically that we might not even recognise it?

True.

[Powerboy]

I skimmed the thread but want to answer your questions before being too influenced by others. I can't address the action figures thing but I suspect Batman has more props than Superman, Batmobiles, Bat-planes, etc.

But, as someone pointed out, The Fleischer cartoons were long before the Batman animated and Superman has actually had as many cartoons though Batman has had more of the recent ones. Superman and Batman both had serials in the 1940s but Superman had a six year run as a tv show in the
1950s before Batman had a shorter run in the 1960s. Plus Superman has had a second live action series, "Lois and Clark" regardless of what some people thought about it. Superman has had six live action movies not counting the two multichapter serials in the 1940s (one with George Reeves before the tv show, the four Christopher Reeve movies and the Brandon Routh movie). Batman has had six live action movies discounting serials (one with Adam West spinning off from the show, the four that started with Michael Keaton and "Begins").

I consider Batman more a descendant of the Shadow or Zorro than Superman so I agree with you there. But remember Superman was originally a much darker character than he later became. I'm reading the two volumes out so far of the earliest Superman adventures.

I think Batman is a great character and I think he is probably considered the superior character among a core group that loves the trend Frank Miller started. But amongst the greater public at large, Superman is the name. He is the first name they think of when you say "Super hero". While he is not the first fictional character with super powers (hell, the first characters with superhuman abilities predate the written word), he is the person who popularized the costumed hero with powers (even though I know he was not the first).

Also, Batman's descent into darkness lost as many people as it gained if not more. As a friend recently told me, he was a huge Batman fan until maybe twenty years ago when Batman went into his 'all dark all the time' phase. He didn't want the Silver Age, he just didn't want the Dark Ages.

Remember also that Superman was top of the heap when comic book sales measured in the millions per month instead of thousands per month as they are measured now. For that overwhelming majority of the public that does not actually read comics anymore but still knows who the big characters are, what happened this month or this decade in the comics is irrelevant. Even if they find other characters more interesting, they see Superman as the archetype. When you ask, "Who is the greatest Superhero of all time?" most people probably think, "Well, I liked 'Batman Begins" better than "Superman Returns" but that's just one movie. Obviously, greatest of all-time? It's Superman." And yes, Batman has a far superior set of villains.


Ok seriously I've looked at many polls on websites asking who the greatest superheroe of all time is and Superman seems to receive more votes than Batman. When your thinking about who is more well known you have to observe their popularity in pop culture. Batman seems to have more success than Supes. He's had more action figures than Superman, he was the first superhero to have a criticly acclaimed animated series, and even when it comes to movies Bats has outdone Superman. Batman is also considered by many comic book fans to be a superior character. Superman only predates Batman by a year, and he's really not the first superheroe. Many think Bats would'nt exist if it wasn't for Superman. But Batman and Superman are two comepletely different characters, heck the only true comparison of the two is the fact that they both wear capes and their underwear inside out. Another reason I think Bats is superior to Supes is because he has a superior rouges gallary.
I dont think any one can argue with that I mean Bats has the Joker, Catwoman, the Riddler, Mr.Freeze, Ras al ghul, and Clayface. And while Bats has some lame enemys( Penguin I'm looking at you) he still trumps Supes overall. I mean the only really good enemys Supes has is Lex Luthor, Braniac, and sometimes Bizzaro(I don't count Darkseid he shouldn't be a Superman villain). So to sum everything up Batman trumps Superman(and pretty much every other superheroe) in just about every category. So pretty much what I'm trying to ask is why is why do people see Superman as being more iconic than Batman when over the years over the years he's pretty much outdone him in everything. Btw I have nothing against Superman I was just wondering how people see him as being a more iconic Superhero than Batman.

[Powerboy]

Oh I forgot about "Smallville" and also that there have been two previous Superboy tv shows. I had forgotten about those.

[kal_el21]

He's more recognizable and stands for patriotic beliefs which everybody in this country relates to. Superman is about hope and a better way. Batman is about revenge and fear.

[Bry]

I like both characters.

But what I find interesting to consider is:

1. that Superman is NOT a man, he is an alien.

2. With such strong powers, it seems that superman is not usually risking a lot, where as Batman would risk his life everyday. It would be a hard life being Batman, but for most of the time being Superman would be easy. So while Superman maybe Super, Batman might be the greater hero? (Unless you bring in the "motivated by revenge" arguement.


I hope you mean he's not human otherwise Lois is going to have some issues with that marriage thing, and you're right he's not but he's been shown to be more human then his "Human" Wife. I can see what you're saying in your comparison, but I believe in recent years they've tried to show that it's not as easy being "Super" as people might think. Point in case where he told Supergirl that he's contanstly holding himself back and that if he wanted to he could stop her at any time. I think they're both great heroes, the difference lies in that Batman has to do his best physically and mentally to acheive his goal whereas Supes has to do his best mentally and sometimes physically to achieve his goals, same qualities just different methods I believe.

But that's just one fan's opinion

[Magneto_X]

Bats was always a better character to me.

Unlike Kal he risks his life every time he puts on his mask while most of the time Supes enemies can barely hurt him unless Krytonite is around (or his uber-villians are written as genuine threats which is almost never*).

Bruce has a fascinating and complex personality while Kal is fairly dull and rarely has trouble in his personal/professional/super-hero lives.

Bats has a better costume and uses his brain and resources while Supes usually just punches stuff first, asks questions later.

Birthright and the Timm-verse have made him a recent fan of the character but he's still one of my least favourite DC heroes.


* Jobberseid, Doomsday, Gog, Luthor etc

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Gog? Last time I saw him, he was written as a genuine threat to Big Blue. And he's still around.

Agreed on Darkseid and Doomy, though. It seems that Darkseid is gonna kick some serious ass soon, anyway.

[Alex L]

Unlike Kal he risks his life every time he puts on his mask while most of the time Supes enemies can barely hurt him unless Krytonite is around (or his uber-villians are written as genuine threats which is almost never*).
I can see that, and you do bring up a good point.

However, their motivations are somewhat different.
Batman was born in the death of Bruce's parents; the creation of the Dark Knight was reactive to the tragedy.

Clark didn't need that kind of motive to become Superman. He does good because he is innately good.


Bruce has a fascinating and complex personality while Kal is fairly dull and rarely has trouble in his personal/professional/super-hero lives.
I don't read the Bat-titles, so I shouldn't really comment.

But I don't see the playboy-millionaire who can set his own schedule and not have a problem affording Batarangs as a much more fascinating personality, either.

Bats has a better costume and uses his brain and resources while Supes usually just punches stuff first, asks questions later.
Both costumes are iconic. Which one is 'better' is really a non-issue, isn't it?

And FWIW, Big Blue isn't a punch-drunk like Guy Gardner. He doesn't charge in to fight.

[kyleryner]

Just thought I'd mention that there are five fictional characters known the world over. These are (and I think this is the right order):

King Arthur
Mickey Mouse
Robin Hood
Superman
Sherlock Holmes

Batman may have more "exposure" in America (although I doubt the validity of that claim), but Superman is an icon know across the Earth.

Ive read about this so-called list of top fictional characters several times. And IIRC, King Arthur isnt one of them. You forgot SANTA CLAUS. (although some people might argue he's not fictional... :) )

I think the Top 3 are:

Santa Claus
Superman
Mickey Mouse

I would argue that Robin Hood, King Arthur and Sherlock Holmes (in that order) shouldnt be that well-known WORLD WIDE. Who ever did this "survey" or "poll" obviously couldnt get big enough of a sample size to cover the entire world.. and must have did the survey more on Europe, where people would tend to know these characters.

If you think about countries in Asia, Africa, the Middle East... like China and India (you got BILLIONS there already), Iraq, Zimbabwe, Khazastan (think Borat's village), North Korea, Egypt, and countries listed in the United Nations most of us havent even heard about. Then you have the people living in Barrios, Villages, mountainside, the desert... people in extreme poverty.. etc. I doubt many would have heard of King Arthur, Sherlock Holmes and Robin Hood. Arguably even Santa Claus might not be well known for Nations who dont celebrate Christmas. But you can bet they've heard of Superman and Mickey Mouse. And yes, maybe even Batman and Spiderman.

Theres also a list of most copied or pirated merchandise/logos and Superman and Mickey Mouse (and other Disney characters) rank among the top as well. You can go to a remote village in africa and see a child wearing a Superman shirt. Businessmen, media, advertising people, etc always use the adjective "SUPER" to sell a product or idea (and in the context of Superman, not just the natural meaning of the word). You always see commercials (not only in the US, but even more-so in less developed countries with more chessy ads) of a flying character in a cape selling something.

And despite the box office success of Batman movies and animated shows, Superman still has had more of them, including a live action Superboy series, Lois and Clark, and a little show called Smallville now on its 6th season. Not to mention his *DOG* has his own show. check out more lists from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman#Adaptations_in_other_media (although someone needs to update that I think).

So yes, Superman *IS* without a doubt, more popular than Batman....

[Reptisaurus!]

I

1. that Superman is NOT a man, he is an alien.


Yeah, but he's an alien who looks, acts, and feels human.

He's essentially a person from SOMEWHERE ELSE. It's the primal American Immigrant myth writ large.


2. With such strong powers, it seems that superman is not usually risking a lot, where as Batman would risk his life everyday. It would be a hard life being Batman, but for most of the time being Superman would be easy. So while Superman maybe Super, Batman might be the greater hero? (Unless you bring in the "motivated by revenge" arguement.


I think this makes Batman easier to write.

And while Batman has a greater risk factor to his job, Superman's more purely altruistic in his motivations.


3. The way Superman is written is that he is an action hero that exists in a world very similar to the one we experience every day. But if such a being truely existed, wouldn't our world and the way we do things change so dramatically that we might not even recognise it?


It's a suspension of disbelief question.

Basically, I think that once ya accept that a character does stuff that's impossible anyway ya stretch it and Could Not happen in the real world, ever.

Well, actually, that's Batman.

(You jump off a building with a rope... You wrench your arm outta the socket and hit the pavement.)

Superman's about a trillion times less believable than that. :)

Honestly, once I've swallowed the BIG question all the little questions go down real easy.

The Superman story has never really made ANY attempts at "hard" science fiction style accuracy; Given it's failure to even half-ass a pseudo-scientific explanation for his powers. (It's.... ummm... the sun! He's .... er... photsynthesizing! Like a Giant Begonia. Plus he's psychic. Or something. Don't look at me.) Phillip K. Dick style sociological prediction is probably a little bit beyond the scope of the Superman story.

So.

If it's NOT science-fiction in any but the sloppiest sense of the word, what is it?

Superman's an immigrant who comes to this world to do good, and to save people. He shows us (especially young'ns) right from wrong.

I'm not sayin' that Superman is mythology. But the Superman story adopts many of the same STRUCTURES and serves the same purpose as classical myth. So it's somethin' awfully close.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

I go through cicles.

I liked Batman when he was actually "human", do you remember that Batman who had a hard time defeating Catwoman and didn´t know 137 fighting styles? That guy seriously rocked!

Miller´s Batman Year One and DKR were also awesome.

Superman, OTOH... was my hero for a good chunk of my childhood thanks to the 1978 movie.
John Byrne´s MoS rekindled that fascination but the creators that followed lost me.

Right now.... I´d say I dislke them both equally.

Powergirl and Batgirl FTW!

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Superman is day. Batman is night. They're both just different sides of the same thing.

Why do some people like night better than day? Why do some people like day better than night?

Because people have different tastes.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Superman is day. Batman is night. They're both just different sides of the same thing.

And Wonder Woman is the magic twilight hour between them.

Thanks, Bored, you just gave me the inspiration I needed :)

[caboose]

Lets not all forget either that when Superman "died", most of western civilisation stopped to ask how?

Also someone mentioned Superman's mythic qualities. Sometimes its more than that. Superman's departure from Krypton as a child is similar to how Moses and Krishna got their adopted families.

[CaptainAwesome]

I think Busiek's run on Superman, Camelot Falls, pretty much explains why Superman is more important than batman, both in continuity and in the real world. Superman is an icon all over the world, and while Batman is a major part of the DCU and american pop-culture he doesnt nearly come close to what Superman represents in the world.

[Powerboy]

Lets not all forget either that when Superman "died", most of western civilisation stopped to ask how?

Also someone mentioned Superman's mythic qualities. Sometimes its more than that. Superman's departure from Krypton as a child is similar to how Moses and Krishna got their adopted families.

Remember ten years or so back, maybe fifteen, when DC changed Superman's powers for a while? It was all over the news on television and in newspapers. I think even Howard Stern and the late night talk show guys talked about it. Likewise when he died. Even when Batman got his back broken, was in a wheelchair and they had a new Batman, it didn't rate much attention that I know of beyond the comic reading public.

Superman is simply THE super hero, the archetype. Even people who haven't read a comic book in thirty years still, in some strange way, care what is being done with him in the comics in a way that they don't care about any other character.

[Spider-Man]

Consider this: the superhero who outsold all others in existence at the time was neither Superman OR The Batman.

It was Captain Marvel, now known as "Shazam."

But who was Cap based on, in appearance and powers, though with a mystical explanation for those powers?

Superman.

My point: sales and exposure are one thing. Being able to inspire countless imitators is another.

As comics history shows, The Batman was one of the first of National Publications's imitators. Kane was told to base his character on Superman's appearance.

And the rest of the imitators? They comprise the comic book industry today.

The case could be made that The Batman and Spider-Man have also inspired imitators, and this is indeed true, though nowhere near as many. Nor is that a valid argument, because they were themselves based on Superman. Spidey's color scheme, Peter Parker's nerdy traits and career, all of these were based on Superman.

So the first archetype in comics was Superman, followed by The Batman and years later, Spidey. And all the characters we see today, with few exceptions, find their roots in one of these three guys.

Yet the second two find their roots in the first.

Superman.

-Spidey

[stealthwise]

I am going to go with people have different opinions and tastes.

Quoted for truth.

[Patriot07]

Many think Bats would'nt exist if it wasn't for Superman. But Batman and Superman are two comepletely different characters, heck the only true comparison of the two is the fact that they both wear capes and their underwear inside out.

Many fans think that because it's true. Bob Kane and Bill Finger created Batman because of the great popularity of Batman.

[Gernot]

Actually, Patriot, that doesn't make any sense.

Batman WAS created because of the popularity of Superman. So were Captain America, Captain Marvel, Flash, Green Lantern, and every single hero who ever came down the pike.

If Superman had proven a failure, NONE of the other heroes would've been created, due to the fact that there would've been no market for them.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

It seems that it was a typing error from Patriot. :confused:

[Gernot]

You're absolutely correct, MoP! I GOTTA quit postin' when I'm tired! :)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Hehehe... Don't worry, my friend.

[Rupertmetal]

I like Batman more. I think he is a better character for the the reasons that kingofstuff mentioned in his original post and my own reasons.

However, I think that the majority of people will always think Superman is better because he came first, he is the most powerful and he is nicer.

And I think him being nicer than Batman goes a long way. Just like in sports. If Michael Jordan was an asshole, the majority of people wouldn't say he is the best basketball player ever.

Barry Bonds is an asshole, so a lot of people won't say he is the best baseball player ever, even though he is a homerun monster.

Superman is nice and he smiles and he saves the day!

Batman is mean and he keeps a straight face and he fights crime.

Dark stuff isn't mainstream, so Superman will be considered better by the majority.

[sidsin21]

I cant boast of having read all Bat Man comics..but what i've read seems to tell me that Bat Man upholds the quintessential American values like justice, liberty and so on, much more fanatically than Superman..In many story arcs where Superman and his bunch of weirdos have been disillusioned by false ideals, Bat Man has been the only true savior for Earth( as in Kingdom Come and Dark Knight Returns), and this thought has been echoed by none other than superman himself who once doubted whether he would be as valiant as Bman if he was devoid of all his powers. And didnt supermans power completely depend on the Sun in our solar system...which means that had krypton not been destroyed he would be completely powerless there and Bat Man cud kick his ass much more frequently! Add to that the completely cold storyline of Smallville which can never have the emotional impact that Bruce Wayne's world has and one can easily understand y Batman is the ultimate hero a person can have...!!

[Mr. Holmes]

I used to like Batman more, but I guess I found Superman to be more appealing as I grew older.

While both are power fantasies, the idea of Batman sounds like it gives the illusion of being realistic or relatable because he has no powers, but really does ridiculous things. At least Superman has a science fiction backdrop.

[KurtW95]

Superman is more powerful, but Batman has more depth and he's cooler. Also Batman's villains are way better than Superman's. Batman's got the Joker, the Penguin, Ra's al Ghul, the Scarecrow and many more. And Superman pretty much only has Luthor, Brainiac and the Apokolips villains. And Batman is also more interesting because he had a hand in creating many of his villains.

[Mr. Holmes]

Superman is more powerful, but Batman has more depth and he's cooler.

Depth depends on how deep the writer goes, more so than intrinsic properties of the characters themselves, and both have had their fair share of character depth.


Also Batman's villains are way better than Superman's. Batman's got the Joker, the Penguin, Ra's al Ghul, the Scarecrow and many more. And Superman pretty much only has Luthor, Brainiac and the Apokolips villains.

Umm no, Superman has many more rogues than that.


And Batman is also more interesting because he had a hand in creating many of his villains.


This makes him more interesting because...?

[dupersuper]

I cant boast of having read all Bat Man comics..but what i've read seems to tell me that Bat Man upholds the quintessential American values like justice, liberty and so on, much more fanatically than Superman..In many story arcs where Superman and his bunch of weirdos have been disillusioned by false ideals, Bat Man has been the only true savior for Earth( as in Kingdom Come and Dark Knight Returns), and this thought has been echoed by none other than superman himself who once doubted whether he would be as valiant as Bman if he was devoid of all his powers. And didnt supermans power completely depend on the Sun in our solar system...which means that had krypton not been destroyed he would be completely powerless there and Bat Man cud kick his ass much more frequently! Add to that the completely cold storyline of Smallville which can never have the emotional impact that Bruce Wayne's world has and one can easily understand y Batman is the ultimate hero a person can have...!!

Wow, what a trolling, grammatic nightmare of a first post. Good luck here.

[KurtW95]

Depth depends on how deep the writer goes, more so than intrinsic properties of the characters themselves, and both have had their fair share of character depth.

It's just my opinion. Don't get me wrong, I do like Superman, but I prefer Batman.


Umm no, Superman has many more rogues than that.

I know but Batman's are more well known.


This makes him more interesting because...?

His sense of responsibility and obligation to help them. And I know Superman has a responsibly of helping mankind, but I think Batman's is more dramatic as it comes from the trauma of his parents' death.

[Sacred Knight]

I really doubt he's more well known, actually. Superman, symbolically, is right up there with globally known products like Coca-Cola and Mickey Mouse.

[Esoteric J]

Superman is more popular than Batman, around the world. In recemt, people more in tune with whats happening today know about Batman more than Superman. Doesnt mean Batman is more popular or well known, because hes definetly not. You hand a boy in a 3rd world country a picture of Superman or an elderly folk and theyll know who it is.

2nd, Superman is what Batman dreams he could be, same with every Superhero in the DC, and in every comic in any company. Even in the Marvel crossovers Superman is practically held is the pinnacle of the greatest Superhero/role model there could ever be. Also, speaking from a real world point of view, all of theres characters where created in Superman's image. Superman is so popular hes the archetype of the hero, thats why in anime and so much fictional and much more things you see influences of Superman.


Superman has the ideal personality to make him the perfect Superhero in the comic world AND in the real world. What sets Superman apart from everyone is his always smiling positive attitude and selfless personality to help others. What everyone looks up to. He isnt dark, he isnt broody, he isnt angry, and he doesnt kill.

I think its safe to say, theyll never be a superhero that will top Supes.

[ngroove]

A) Superman's the strongest, most powerful, unless in Krypton, Krypton-related, or places of gravitational equivalency. Otherwise, he has super strength, super breath, heat vision, x-ray vision, super speed, and best of all, flight! Just about everything kids and adults dream about, if fantasize about super powers.

B) Rather than use them as an all-powerful dark god, he uses them selflessly and with responsibility. To save children from speeding cars, pick up kittens from high trees, pick up and rescue failing airplanes up the sky, blow out fires, uses eyes to weld broken bridges, and of course, to kick some serious butt!

C) Anyone who says only Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Bizarro is the only good opposition, clearly is not a reader / fan of Superman. From Toyman, Prankster, Metallo, Parasite, Silver Banshee, Livewire, to quasi-powerful Mister Mxyzlptlk, to bruisers like Doomsday, Cyborg Superman, General Zod, Mongul, to total muthas like Brainiac 13 and Imperiex.

[sidsin21]

Wow, what a trolling, grammatic nightmare of a first post. Good luck here.

Hey it takes some effort to be troll and grammatically nightmarish!
Thanks for the welcome!!:smile:

[Namtab]

Clark is Superman for the good people of Metropolis (and the World).

Bruce is Batman for the criminals of Gotham (and the World).

At least that's the core distinction that I make -- perspective. Superman is the greatest hero but Batman is my favorite.


Hey it takes some effort to be troll and grammatically nightmarish!
Thanks for the welcome!!:smile:

You're also a master Necromancer -- you're a triple threat!

(The thread you resurrected was from 2007)

[Libaax]

Silly thread that show the negative side of superhero fans.

"Superman is good person and Batman is fear, revenge!!!"

"Superman is not cool,he is terrible alien and Batman is cool!"

Why debate about personal taste, opinion at all. You can be fan of Superman and Batman without hating the other one.

[ngroove]

Silly thread that show the negative side of superhero fans.

Superman is good person and Batman is fear, revenge!!!

Superman is not cool,he is terrible alien and Batman is cool!

Why debate about personal taste, opinion at all. You can be fan of Superman and Batman without hating the hero.

It is quite clear enough whose side you're on.

[sidsin21]

Clark is Superman for the good people of Metropolis (and the World).

Bruce is Batman for the criminals of Gotham (and the World).

At least that's the core distinction that I make -- perspective. Superman is the greatest hero but Batman is my favorite.



You're also a master Necromancer -- you're a triple threat!

(The thread you resurrected was from 2007)

It did take a long time for me to realize that Batman was such a coool dude!!!

[Libaax]

It is quite clear enough whose side you're on.

I meant to quote those words about Superman and Batman that i saw from posters in this thread.


Sure my fav hero is Batman but i also adore Superman and have read many of his comics.


Im not on any of your silly sides. I see greatness in both Supes and Batman. I dont read Superman monthly comics doesnt mean im on Batman fanboys side.

[Dr.wonderful]

He's more recognizable and stands for patriotic beliefs which everybody in this country relates to. Superman is about hope and a better way. Batman is about revenge and fear.

Vengenace and Justice.

[Mat001]

Libaax is right. There are those who when comparing and contrasting Superman and Batman, will take shots at Superman's alien nature versus Batman's human DNA. Not to mention that Batman has to work at being Batman, rather than having his gifts as a result of a genetic background.

[Esoteric J]

Silly thread that show the negative side of superhero fans.

"Superman is good person and Batman is fear, revenge!!!"

"Superman is not cool,he is terrible alien and Batman is cool!"

Why debate about personal taste, opinion at all. You can be fan of Superman and Batman without hating the other one.

Because its fact. Batman is fear, thats his whole motif and part of his gig as a Superhero. In case you didnt know why he was called "Batman".

The other stuff though, "Superman is a terrible alien" (lol) thats not fact. Theres difference between personal tastes and fact. The former I mentioned, thats fact. The latter, thats opinion.


A) Superman's the strongest, most powerful, unless in Krypton, Krypton-related, or places of gravitational equivalency. Otherwise, he has super strength, super breath, heat vision, x-ray vision, super speed, and best of all, flight! Just about everything kids and adults dream about, if fantasize about super powers.

B) Rather than use them as an all-powerful dark god, he uses them selflessly and with responsibility. To save children from speeding cars, pick up kittens from high trees, pick up and rescue failing airplanes up the sky, blow out fires, uses eyes to weld broken bridges, and of course, to kick some serious butt!

C) Anyone who says only Lex Luthor, Brainiac, and Bizarro is the only good opposition, clearly is not a reader / fan of Superman. From Toyman, Prankster, Metallo, Parasite, Silver Banshee, Livewire, to quasi-powerful Mister Mxyzlptlk, to bruisers like Doomsday, Cyborg Superman, General Zod, Mongul, to total muthas like Brainiac 13 and Imperiex.

Thank you I forgot to mention that one.

[Vaiyt]

Why do people think their opinion on who is better matters holy shit

[Esoteric J]

Why do people think their opinion on who is better matters holy shit

Well, thanks for contributing to the thread, with that marvelous post. But, the question was, although the OP threw in all his opinions of why Batman is better, why is it that Superman is more popular/the face of Superheros and Batman isnt?

To that which, I personally atleast, answered with logic, rather than saying Batman is stupid or saying "Oh doho, why people post opinions".

[Alex Keller]

Because Superman's a global icon and an archetype for an entire subgenre of speculative fiction. I love Batman and can only get into Morrison's Superman, but it's not really that hard to see why lots of people would prefer Superman.

[BYC]

Why do people think their opinion on who is better matters holy shit
Interestingly enough, that's how Batman thinks. He doesn't really trust anybody, but he trusts Superman. And of course, the utter nonsense that he picks young boys as his sidekick because he can trust them, but puts them in harm's way.

Superman trusts almost everybody, even Luthor up to a point.

Also, Batman is generally much more ego-maniacal, believing only he can do it "right". Batman is portrayed more often of being unbalanced, from only he can do it right, to trying to defend the rights of every man, to defending mass killers because "nobody has the right to judge", but more often than not, he does judge.

Superman generally hasn't changed much since Silver Age (which actually hurts him in these modern times).

[Esoteric J]

Interestingly enough, that's how Batman thinks. He doesn't really trust anybody, but he trusts Superman. And of course, the utter nonsense that he picks young boys as his sidekick because he can trust them, but puts them in harm's way.

Superman trusts almost everybody, even Luthor up to a point.

Also, Batman is generally much more ego-maniacal, believing only he can do it "right". Batman is portrayed more often of being unbalanced, from only he can do it right, to trying to defend the rights of every man, to defending mass killers because "nobody has the right to judge", but more often than not, he does judge.

Superman generally hasn't changed much since Silver Age (which actually hurts him in these modern times).

Not really. As stated dozens of times before, its writing that hasnt done its job. Silver Age Superman has nothing to do with it, look at Grant Morrisons All-Star, more Silver Age than anything the last 30 years and its considered a master piece.

People tend to forget that before Batman was what he is right now, he had a couple of movies that didnt do so well and ended the franchise, video games that where atrocious, and didnt achieve what he is today untill good material and writing came along to put him on the map again. That includes a phoenominally done game(s), and well very directed movies for the modern times. And the other things stemming from the results of that, such as the cartoons, and what not.

[Lex Von Doom]

It's because he has powers and Batman doesn't plain and simple, lets be honest if the 2 were to switch places (Batman having powers, Superman not having them) Superman wouldn't be nearly as popular as he is now. Also having the word "Super" in his name helps make him be related to the term superhero more than any other hero. Back to the powers, it's like how Blake Griffin gets a lot of airtime on SportsCenter because he dunks 90% of the time. Cut out the dunks and he doesn't get talked about. Ask someone why they like Superman and MOST of them will say because of his powers, few people say they like his personality. When people say they like Batman it's usually personality related (they think he's badass, cool etc.)

I'm not saying nobody would like Superman if he had no powers but he sure wouldn't be as popular and iconic as he is now. I think if Batman had powers he would clearly be the most popular, I actually know people who say they'd like Batman more if he had powers, can't say the opposite for Superman (people who'd like him if he didn't have them)

This is all just my opinion of course.

[Libaax]

Because its fact. Batman is fear, thats his whole motif and part of his gig as a Superhero. In case you didnt know why he was called "Batman".

The other stuff though, "Superman is a terrible alien" (lol) thats not fact. Theres difference between personal tastes and fact. The former I mentioned, thats fact. The latter, thats opinion.



Thank you I forgot to mention that one.

I know Batman uses fear, he has revenge thing in his origin. But it silly by other fans to think he is negative character who is only about fear,dark,gloomy. People who arent fans make him out to be some twisted guy in a suit.

I admire the idea of Batman because as you said he is just a man who has to work at being Batman. I hate Bat-god persona and like the streel level guy who uses hand to hand combat,gadgets,smarts.

I admire the idea of Superman for the opposite, he is heroic, human persona Clark Kent despite his powers. I dont see why we have to choose sides.

[Esoteric J]

I know Batman uses fear, he has revenge thing in his origin. But it silly by other fans to think he is negative character who is only about fear,dark,gloomy. People who arent fans make him out to be some twisted guy in a suit.

I admire the idea of Batman because as you said he is just a man who has to work at being Batman. I hate Bat-god persona and like the streel level guy who uses hand to hand combat,gadgets,smarts.

I admire the idea of Superman for the opposite, he is heroic, human persona Clark Kent despite his powers. I dont see why we have to choose sides.

I've been a Batman fan my whole life, and a bigger Batman fan than Superman. I never said hes a negative character, but he does imply negative things into his motif. Which is really only the fear thing. And he is a dark character , that's his whole gimmick. Hes suppose to be the mysterious protector, a different kind of character than Superman. Just because youre mysterious doesnt make you evil.

But I arleady outlined why Superman works better as the face of Superheros both in the comics and real world.

[Libaax]

I've been a Batman fan my whole life, and a bigger Batman fan than Superman. I never said hes a negative character, but he does imply negative things into his motif. Which is really only the fear thing. And he is a dark character , that's his whole gimmick. Hes suppose to be the mysterious protector, a different kind of character than Superman. Just because youre mysterious doesnt make you evil.

But I arleady outlined why Superman works better as the face of Superheros both in the comics and real world.

Well said and thats what i meant and didnt like about this thread. I didnt mean regular fans like you.

If several other fans in this thread said like you why they prefer Superman as a hero there would not be a need for thread like this.

I tend to like street level heroes. Superman is the only cosmic level hero i find interesting enough to read really. I dont like GL,Thor and co.

[Esoteric J]

Well said and thats what i meant and didnt like about this thread. I didnt mean regular fans like you.

If several other fans in this thread said like you why they prefer Superman as a hero there would not be a need for thread like this.

I tend to like street level heroes. Superman is the only cosmic level hero i find interesting enough to read really. I dont like GL,Thor and co.

Oh, well thank you my good man. :wink:

I didnt like cosmic stuff either, but every now and youll come across something that might change your opinion. For instance I used dislike Hal with a passion, very boring dude I thought.

Untill I stumbled across is old silver age stories which are awesome, his crazy relationship with tons of women, and those adventures. Awesome stuff. :cool:

[Enda8011]

Actually, Patriot, that doesn't make any sense.

Batman WAS created because of the popularity of Superman. So were Captain America, Captain Marvel, Flash, Green Lantern, and every single hero who ever came down the pike.

If Superman had proven a failure, NONE of the other heroes would've been created, due to the fact that there would've been no market for them.

Well, since the Shadow, Zorro, the Phantom, etc. had already debuted, it stands as possible that some of these properties might have eventually shown up.

[Enda8011]

Just thought I'd mention that there are five fictional characters known the world over. These are (and I think this is the right order):

King Arthur
Mickey Mouse
Robin Hood
Superman
Sherlock Holmes

Batman may have more "exposure" in America (although I doubt the validity of that claim), but Superman is an icon know across the Earth.

Actually, that list included Tarzan, not King Arthur.

[Enda8011]

As comics history shows, The Batman was one of the first of National Publications's imitators. Kane was told to base his character on Superman's appearance.



He did not follow through, but copied from Zorro, the Shadow, the Phantom, etc.

[Enda8011]

Another thing to keep in mind is that Batman wasn't as big of a character in the 1950's as he is now. Many people like to think that SUPERMAN and BATMAN have been of near equal stature since their debuts in the late 1930's. But prior to the Adam West TV series, Batman was in a very distant second place to Superman. In fact, during the 1940's, Batman was in a distant third place behind rivals Superman & Captain Marvel. By the 1950's, Superman was the star of a long running radio show and a long running newspaper strip. He also had appeared in several innovative theatrical cartoons in the early 40's. Batman on the other hand, had only guest started in a handful of episodes of the Superman radio show, his newspaper strip only lasted a few years and he hadn't made the jump to cartoons. In the 1950's, Batman just didn't have anywhere near Superman's name-recognition and multimedia clout.

Well, I was unable to find sales figures for BATMAN for the 50s, so let's go to the nearest thing, 1960.

In 1960, the eponymous titles sold:

BATMAN ... 502,000 (avg circulation)
SUPERMAN 810,000 (avg circulation)

So, I guess you were correct in that Batman was just not as popular as Supes.

To bolster the effect the Batman TV show had on sales, look at 1965 (pre-TV show):

BATMAN ... 453,745
SUPERMAN 823,829

But in 1966 (after the first season):

BATMAN ... 898,470
SUPERMAN 719,946


Regarding the Metropolis Rogues Gallery, by and large, live action adaptations of the Kryptonian have given them short shrift. The George Reeves show used none of them.

http://marvelmasterworksfansite.yuku...allenge?page=2

[Esoteric J]

Well, since the Shadow, Zorro, the Phantom, etc. had already debuted, it stands as possible that some of these properties might have eventually shown up.

I'm always torn between The Phantom and Superman being the first Superhero. In all honesty, I think The Phantom really is the first Superhero.

He did introduce the white eye's the mask.
He was the first to wear the Spandex, not just spandex, but the first one to wear bright colored spandex.
The underwear on the outside was also of him, he was the first.
What separated him from the previous mystery men (though he still retains his mystery and urban legend persona) was he didnt exactly kill, thats what classifies him as superhero more than The Shadow and what I just typed.


So really, The Phantom is the first superhero. But Superman I think coined the term and made it into what a Superhero should be, defined it, gave it the archetype, with his powers and personality. He was the most successful standard.


But, this man truly is the first. And did the whole urban legend before Batman did.

http://comradesinarms.tripod.com/comics/phantom/Phantom2.gif

And you cant argue that THAT isnt a superhero costume. Which he was the first to sport.

[killercroc]

I don't think anyone is better than the other but seems many people prefer Batman over Superman commercially for now.

Superman became the mary sue and very conservative in the last twenty years while Batman remains on many levels a much more layered and intriguing character. If Superman loses his powers tomorrow Batman kicks his ass on many levels. Superman you all say is better but to me he needs to stop being preachy and two dimensional. Batman for all his so called faults seems way less judgmental and whiny than Superman. He sees so much darkness but still tries not to be swallowed by it and Superman knows very little about struggle and yet wants to wag his finger at us. Many people might buy a Superman t-shirt cuz it spells hero but they don't care much about what drives him. But people care what drives Batman as seen by how his movies, comics and video games trump Superman.

[Hulk_Is]

Superman is better for me than Batman because Superman is a superhero and Batman has to be written as 'Batgod' to even be considered for that title and even then he still falls short.

I read comics because of superpowers and Superman pretty much trumps all other characters in this range. Not only does he have lots of powers and abilities, but he has them at such a high level. I mean, he's called the Man of Steel and a chunk of planetoid happens to be one of his weaknesses.

http://i.newsarama.com/images/5.%20Kryptonite%20No%20More%20Superman.jpg

He's brightly colored and puts most people in a good mood. :smile:

Batman on the other hand is a good character, but his Batgod levels of ridiculousness tarnish the character for me unfortunately. :frown:

Plus, I hate Batfans the most. They're like Wolverine fans:

"What's your favorite color?"

"Wolverine."

:tongue:

[dupersuper]

Regarding the Metropolis Rogues Gallery, by and large, live action adaptations of the Kryptonian have given them short shrift. The George Reeves show used none of them.


True, but it hasn't been as bad as people think. Smallville used Lex, Lexcorp, Brainiac, Zod, Fiora, several Phantom Zone villains, Darkseied, Desaad, Godfrey, Granny Goodness, Female Furies, Doomsday, Metallo, Parasite, Livewire, Neutron, Silver Banshee, Toyman, Intergang...even reused the Mxyzptlk name.

Lois&Clark used Lex, Lexcorp, a group of Kryptonian (PZ stand in ) villains, Metallo, Mxyzptlk, Toyman, Prankster, Intergang, Baron Samedi, Bizarro...and introduced Tempus.

Superboy used Lex, Bizarro, Metallo and a couple others.

Even the Reeve movies had Zod, Ursa and Non.

[Mayowa]

Not really. As stated dozens of times before, its writing that hasnt done its job. Silver Age Superman has nothing to do with it, look at Grant Morrisons All-Star, more Silver Age than anything the last 30 years and its considered a master piece.

Yeah, but it seems one has to work a lot harder to sell a brighter story like that than what's usually put out. Sure it can be done, but it requires a lot more top flight talent and outside-the-box creativity.



People tend to forget that before Batman was what he is right now, he had a couple of movies that didnt do so well and ended the franchise, video games that where atrocious, and didnt achieve what he is today untill good material and writing came along to put him on the map again. That includes a phoenominally done game(s), and well very directed movies for the modern times. And the other things stemming from the results of that, such as the cartoons, and what not.

People do forget that, don't they? Hell, I forget it from time to time. Still, Batman has had the benefit of having a good (but in my opinion not great) movie a relatively short eight years after Batman and Robin then followed up by a great movie, as opposed to Superman who hasn't seen the big screen in a quarter of a century.

[Jim Thompson]

I don't know as Superman is "better" than Batman; he's different. Both characters are amazingly strong and versatile.

[Namtab]

Plus, I hate Batfans the most. They're like Wolverine fans

Hey! There is no need for insults. :wink:

[Francisco]

People think Superman is better than Batman because he is.. Sorry but Superman is better than any human.. The mere fact that he doesn't believe himself to be better than us makes him so.


PS: Enough with the BS that Batman had to work to be whom he is.. He was born a billionair. He had access to education and advantages that 99,99% of us can't even dream of.

[Enda8011]

True, but it hasn't been as bad as people think. Smallville used Lex, Lexcorp, Brainiac, Zod, Fiora, several Phantom Zone villains, Darkseied, Desaad, Godfrey, Granny Goodness, Female Furies, Doomsday, Metallo, Parasite, Livewire, Neutron, Silver Banshee, Toyman, Intergang...even reused the Mxyzptlk name.

Lois&Clark used Lex, Lexcorp, a group of Kryptonian (PZ stand in ) villains, Metallo, Mxyzptlk, Toyman, Prankster, Intergang, Baron Samedi, Bizarro...and introduced Tempus.

Superboy used Lex, Bizarro, Metallo and a couple others.

Even the Reeve movies had Zod, Ursa and Non.

Smallville did not run on main network television, and only started within the last twelve years or so.

L & C largely did not often reuse foes.

Superboy has not re-aired on American television since its initial syndicated run.

[BBally]

he was the first superhero to have a criticly acclaimed animated series

The Fleischer shorts were well recieved by film critics at the time and still are considered one of the best comic based adaptations ever.

Richard Donner's 1978 Superman starring Christopher Reeve, was possibly one of the earliest Superhero movies to recieve overly critical acclaim. Tim Burton's 1989 Batman was a box office hit but was panned by critics at the time, while it does have better critical acclaim now, it doesn't have the same amount of critical respect as Donner's Superman.

I'm not trying make Superman look better than Batman or anything but it wouldn't have hurt for you to do a little more research before you posted that comment.

[jmresp]

The main difference is that Superman has powers and Batman doesn't. As a kid I always perferred Superman over Batman because he could just about everything effortlessly which put the awe factor into him. Plus the Reeve movies helped alot, and he is normally the first superhero to come to mind when asked to name a superhero.

With that said, Batman has gained and some could say/argue that he is now more popular. The world is different now and alot of the toys/gadgets he uses now are not as far fetched as they were years ago.

I see it as Superman is the Ultimate Superhero, and Batman as the Ultimate Detective.

This is not to slight any character in anyway. Right now everything is Batman with movies, cartoons, games, toys, etc, etc...

But everything could change again in the next 10-20 years as well.

[RohanRiderX]

If u look at my post history you could see I'm a diehard batfan...with that said.

I don't hate Superman I just don't love him. But I do love the way he is written in relationship to Bruce some times I don't like when they are bff,s. But I don't like when they hate each othereither

I like the relationship right in the middle like Clark knows Bruce is one traumitized. Crabby bastard. And helps anyway like his recent appeareance in Batman noel

Like the way they are in Batman/superman or the dcau

They respect each other and are friends and they are aware of the ideological diffrences

Like what he told Kara "grumpy ass isint bad once u get to know him

So.I don't think hese better or worse Hess just different

[FirestormTheNuclearMan]

I've been a Batman fan my whole life, and a bigger Batman fan than Superman. I never said hes a negative character, but he does imply negative things into his motif. Which is really only the fear thing. And he is a dark character , that's his whole gimmick. Hes suppose to be the mysterious protector, a different kind of character than Superman. Just because youre mysterious doesnt make you evil.

But I arleady outlined why Superman works better as the face of Superheros both in the comics and real world.

For Comics, and in most all Media has Batman usually used a jerk facade?

[Esoteric J]

For Comics, and in most all Media has Batman usually used a jerk facade?

What do you mean?

If you mean has he always acted like a jerk, no he never was like that. That seemed to come around more during the 90s late. Before that he wasnt so much the anti-social jerk with neglect to others emotions. In the animated series he definitely wasn't a jerk, in all movies he isnt really either. The ruffer tuffer Batman appeared really after Frank Millers DKR. I understand having emotional problems and not wanting to speak, that's normal and why he acts like that with disregards for others emotions at times. But, sometimes its taken waaaay too far and almost out of character. Like the time he punched Green Lantern just for putting his hand on his shoulder or when he told Superman that the last time he inspired people was when he was dead.

[FirestormTheNuclearMan]

What do you mean?

If you mean has he always acted like a jerk, no he never was like that. That seemed to come around more during the 90s late. Before that he wasnt so much the anti-social jerk with neglect to others emotions. In the animated series he definitely wasn't a jerk, in all movies he isnt really either. The ruffer tuffer Batman appeared really after Frank Millers DKR. I understand having emotional problems and not wanting to speak, that's normal and why he acts like that with disregards for others emotions at times. But, sometimes its taken waaaay too far and almost out of character. Like the time he punched Green Lantern just for putting his hand on his shoulder or when he told Superman that the last time he inspired people was when he was dead.

Jerk Facade The person act's like a jerk so people won't get close. Similar to how a person can choose to not get into a serious relationship a person can also choose behavior so people would hate or loathe him or her.

If you watched the movie Entrapment you see it with Sean's character to Catherine Zeta Jones character.