Black Panther #25: Clor! *preview*

[ForEverAncien]

Newsarama.com has posted up...a few snippet pages of Black Panther #25, shipping at the end of this month. Main Cover and four pages are online.

View Here (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=100476)

[Thursaiz]

So, he is tough.

I have to assume that Marvel will want to show some sort of justice for Bill Foster at the hands of the other Black heroes. This could be interesting.

[MAK15]

thats a throw down I wanna see!
though I was hopin clor would get his handed down from THOR, but, eh, who cares?

[Magneto Rocks]

He'll be fine till CW7 anyway.

[ForEverAncien]

How so?:confused:
He'll be fine till CW7 anyway.

[Magneto Rocks]

Firstly, Millar has said Clor has a resolution in CW7.

Secondly, he was shown in #6 to have his programming fixed giving there a 99% probability that was foreshadowing for his use in The Final Battle.

[bluezulu]

This issue is going to sell over 50k copies. Storm is finally going to show us what she really can do. I wonder if her husband is going to feel just a little "inadequate" being that his wife will be going toe to toe with Thor (a clone anyway). I think Hudlin is going to lay it all on the line with this one. I can't wait.:)

[Mikl C]

I'll.... actually get this.

[Keith_Martineau]

Clor may get his butt kicked. But he'll be around.

I'm referrencing a Joe Fridays on Newsarama. The one after CW3 where the last page was Clor appearing. Nobody knew it was a clone Thor at the time, and Joe Q said "we have a new villain for Thor thats already been introduced in the pages of Civil War, and you guys don't even know it yet."

He HAD to be referring to Clor. At the time nobody knew it wasn't Thor, and so thats the only thing that makes sense going forward. He'll be a villian for the real Thor when he DOES return.

[Magneto Rocks]

Interestingly, it's VERY, VERY HEAVILY implied Clor will survive CW in "Civil War Room #4". The quote is:

NRAMA: Have we seen the last of this cloned Thor?

MM: Definitely not. He's a major player in the series and hopefully in the MU afterwards. He's a big part of The Initiative idea I came up with and which will be a big part of the post-Civil War Marvel Universe.

NRAMA: Can we call him Clor? Does he have a real name? Will he ever?

TB: He doesn't at the moment, but he will. But we can call him Clor for these purposes. And as Mark said - this is not the end of Clor, not by a long shot.

So he WILL have a real name. That he doesn't now and is very unlikely to get one in 7 indicates he'll outlive it.

Not to mention that he's saiud to be a big part of post-CW.

[ForEverAncien]

-Shakes head in sadness-

That is so...frakkin' lame.
Clor may get his butt kicked. But he'll be around.

I'm referrencing a Joe Fridays on Newsarama. The one after CW3 where the last page was Clor appearing. Nobody knew it was a clone Thor at the time, and Joe Q said "we have a new villain for Thor thats already been introduced in the pages of Civil War, and you guys don't even know it yet."

He HAD to be referring to Clor. At the time nobody knew it wasn't Thor, and so thats the only thing that makes sense going forward. He'll be a villian for the real Thor when he DOES return.

[Berkey]

Clor may get his butt kicked. But he'll be around.

I'm referrencing a Joe Fridays on Newsarama. The one after CW3 where the last page was Clor appearing. Nobody knew it was a clone Thor at the time, and Joe Q said "we have a new villain for Thor thats already been introduced in the pages of Civil War, and you guys don't even know it yet."

He HAD to be referring to Clor. At the time nobody knew it wasn't Thor, and so thats the only thing that makes sense going forward. He'll be a villian for the real Thor when he DOES return.

That would be cool to see thor vs clor to take his rightful place. It's kind of like a Klingon stlye of honor there can only be on thor one must go.

[RazzleDazzle]

It would seem ridiculous to for Tony to use Clor (whom I see as a joke, look at what were addressing him by) on Ororo. He's known where the resitance is for how long and has never used a 'working' Clor on them? Yet he uses it on Ororo and T'Challa?

It's one of the frustrating things about the Black Panther. All these events seem to exist in it's own world. It's like the rest of the writers in Marvel have simply just decided to ignore whatever is happening in BP.

[Pike]

Clor is a joke of a character.

Just lame and shows a lack of originality.

[Mephistologist]

Looks like it'll be a good fight between Clor and Storm although I think the art kinda sucks personally.

[Rich L]

So he WILL have a real name.

Bizzarclor?

[Camron Amaya]

Storm shouldn't be able to beat Clor. Even though his Godly powers are fake, he is a physical clone of Thor who is one of the strongest beings in Marvel. It would be like Storm stopping Hulk. Which I don't see happening. And maybe he's immune to her lighting like the real Thor?

[phantom1592]

That's what concerns me. I think this is just another chance to show how "cool" storm is by beating down "not -Thor"

Storm should not even be a challenge to Thor. he has all her powers, more experience with them and has Vastly superior physical stats to boot.

[RazzleDazzle]

Storm shouldn't be able to beat Clor. Even though his Godly powers are fake, he is a physical clone of Thor who is one of the strongest beings in Marvel. It would be like Storm stopping Hulk. Which I don't see happening. And maybe he's immune to her lighting like the real Thor?


The more you talk about it, the more it doesn't make sense. If Clor wins, then Ororo should be out of comission. If Ororo wins, Clor is out of comission. The more likely outcome is that Ororo will 'win', because Clor could be repared. But that brings into the question of...

1) Do they repair Clor a second time?
Which could be odd to figure out, considering it took so long for Reed to fix it, juging by CW alone.

2) Why is Clor used for a third time in CW 7?

Clor is being presented with having the rampage problem he had before when it killed Bill. We can't confirm this, but judging Hudlin's writing, it's safe to say that's going to be the case. At the moment, I'm assuming this takes place before CW6. If Clor is taken out a second time and he goes all rampagey, the Pros look like fools and/or evil. They honestly didn't know that Clor was going to go crazy the first time, if he goes crazy the second time, one should realize Clor will not be approperate to use in the big rumble in CW 7. If the rumble is about capturing the enemy (NO ONE WANTS TO KILL EACH OTHER), using Clor would be stupid.

I think the solutions two these questions might be that the Clor fight takes place during CW7? (Can anyone confirm this?) Which will be tons of fun, seeing how spin offs and crossovers from CW contradict what's going on in the main story. The most infamous two examples is the Spiderman Comic (Tony says it's permanent in Spidey's book and says it's not in CW5) and PWJ (the killing of the two villains).

Or, Storm loses. However Storm is a A-Lister. Storm will not die and we get the sense that Clor fights until its enemy is killed. But then Millar states that Clor will be used in the future. :confused:

The sad thing is I don't know if I should blame Hudlin's writing abilities or just CW mess in general for this one. :o

[Atom_basher]

I pray to GAWD that storm wins, and doesnt need saving

[RazzleDazzle]

I pray to GAWD that storm wins, and doesnt need saving

Oh, god. I didn't even consider that out come. The last thing I want to see is Ororo getting saved by her lesser. :evilangry

[Magneto Rocks]

I love how people blame Millar for other writer's mistakes. He wrote the entire crossover first. THEN others fit their issues around it.

However, I want to note that since either BP 25 OR FF 543 has been confirmed to be partially set in The Final Battle, there's a possibility the Storm/Clor fight is in the final battle.

Besides, Clor may get mad and shout things... the only thing he was reprogrammed against was KILLING things, remember? ;)

But yes, if 25 is pre-CW7 and he kills someone it does suck.

[jackolover]

Absolutely awesome art. I hope that the encounter between Storm and Clor doesn't fizzle into Storm exploding the cyborg from the inside out. I hope the fight lives up to it's potential.

Panther is really living up to it's close Civil War ties to Millars book, and is in the league with Frontline and Spiderman, as to parallel stories with the main event. But this one is like a blast. Ever since CW #3, when Clor showed up, we have been waiting to see him in action again. Not knowing how Clor and the Panthers got fighting, I'm surprised Reed Richards let it get this far.

[Karl H]

I'll.... actually get this.

don't do it... you'll hate yourself for it...

[Doom Hammer]

"CLOR" is, without a doubt, the worst, most nerdy-sounding fan-generated nickname for any character ever, ever. Ever ever ever.

[BooCoo]

I personally hope Clor ISN'T important in the MU. For crying out loud, how many Thoralikes, Thor copies and Thor ripoffs do we need? I'm so sick of it. Over and over like a record stuck on skip, we get These "Thorlites". What's the hangup that everyone wants to copy him so much???:confused: :mad:


Draco, Thunderstrike, Blake (technically), Beta Ray, Thor Girl. And now Clor. :rolleyes: I'm waiting for Hercules to shave, bleach his hair and pretend, too.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I personally hope Clor ISN'T important in the MU. For crying out loud, how many Thoralikes, Thor copies and Thor ripoffs do we need? I'm so sick of it. Over and over like a record stuck on skip, we get These "Thorlites". What's the hangup that everyone wants to copy him so much???:confused: :mad:


Draco, Thunderstrike, Blake (technically), Beta Ray, Thor Girl. And now Clor. :rolleyes: I'm waiting for Hercules to shave, bleach his hair and pretend, too.

Hercules:
Well the Greek pantheon was just getting a little dull. Besides, blondes have more fun.

[Rf2j]

That's what concerns me. I think this is just another chance to show how "cool" storm is by beating down "not -Thor"

Storm should not even be a challenge to Thor. he has all her powers, more experience with them and has Vastly superior physical stats to boot.

Seriously? Clor has like five minutes of combat experience :p

If they cloned him and grew him up in a vat, it's very unlikely he got Thor's memories and experience (leave alone any supernatural powers from his godhood).

[Berkey]

Lets face it this issue is the best and only possibility for thor to return. Storm is on the ropes real thor saves the day. Now he dosen't have to get involved with the war just save storm and destory Clor. It would be cool a little predictable but a really good way to say hey the real thors back and his new comic comes out in a little while

[phantom1592]

Seriously? Clor has like five minutes of combat experience :p

If they cloned him and grew him up in a vat, it's very unlikely he got Thor's memories and experience (leave alone any supernatural powers from his godhood).

Possibly. Depends on the cloning methods I guess. in the established Marvel Universe Clones wake up with the full memories of the original, and can come back 20 years later and create the "who's the real XXXXXXX" debate. ;)

[DoctorDoom]

He is no myth!

[Sparda]

It would seem ridiculous to for Tony to use Clor (whom I see as a joke, look at what were addressing him by) on Ororo. He's known where the resitance is for how long and has never used a 'working' Clor on them? Yet he uses it on Ororo and T'Challa?

It's one of the frustrating things about the Black Panther. All these events seem to exist in it's own world. It's like the rest of the writers in Marvel have simply just decided to ignore whatever is happening in BP.
Storm has a chance against clor. Storm completely loss and got beaten so many way's in contest of champions or some other event, where she threw everything she had against thor, and he was still standing, but clor the other hand has a fake but powerful hammer, but fake nonetheless, and that alone I speculate, the storm will the the impossible in beating the norse duche bag.

[sherlockbones]

it will be a cliffhanger draw between clor and storm. due to the massive strain of the battle, clor will "somehow" be able to break his slave circuits and will fly off to reconsider what he really is.
wanna bet?

[Alan2099]

So he WILL have a real name.
CyberThor!

[Berkey]

it will be a cliffhanger draw between clor and storm. due to the massive strain of the battle, clor will "somehow" be able to break his slave circuits and will fly off to reconsider what he really is.
wanna bet?

Better not I don't want this Clor around any longer than he needs to be. When the real thor comes back for his new series clor better be gone no room for 2 of them. and if clor is the new thor to have his own series I will give up on marvel

[sherlockbones]

naah, he won´t be the new thor. just a new player in town

[gunnerfan69]

Better not I don't want this Clor around any longer than he needs to be. When the real thor comes back for his new series clor better be gone no room for 2 of them. and if clor is the new thor to have his own series I will give up on marvel

I agree one of the worst entries in the civil war was Clor...he was absolutely not needed in any sense --- I mean Sentry could have killed goliath ffs if needed so they could still have the blonde aryan cracks you get in BP and would make "Bob" even more of a basket case.

[stillanerd]

Interestingly, it's VERY, VERY HEAVILY implied Clor will survive CW in "Civil War Room #4". The quote is:


So he WILL have a real name. That he doesn't now and is very unlikely to get one in 7 indicates he'll outlive it.

Not to mention that he's saiud to be a big part of post-CW.

Unfortunately, that can also be read to imply that the reason "Clor" is to play a big part in post-Civil War could mean that "Clor's real name" is...Thor. Seems to me that was pretty much hinted in Black Panther #24 as well when "Clor" screams out "I am not a myth!" Sounds like something Thor would say, minus the Elizabethian English. His resolution in Civil War #7 could be that "Clor" suddenly goes "Where am I? How did I get here? The last thing I remember was..." Reed tries to shut him down but it no longer works and "Clor" proclaims "My name is THOR!" and flies off. Because you see, even though "Clor" was a product of science, the real Thor was inadvertantly reincarnated as a result--I mean that's the kind of twist that would be right up JMS' alley. And yes, I soooooooo do not want this to be the case.

[BooCoo]

A wicked idea just crossed my brain...

In one HECK of a plot twist...

Okay, Storm and Clor battle and like someone suggested Thor arrives to 'nudge' the battle in Storm's favor. Now, Clor gets toasted.

AND THEN...

There's a mini reunion with Panther and Storm. They hatch a scheme. THOR PRETENDS TO BE CLOR. He becomes the ultimate "mole" on the reg side. Then when the all out battle occurs, Reed and Tony are all smug, thinking they have a great weapon. Reed bellows his 'code' words for action but Thor doesn't respond. He LAUGHS...

"I don't think so, mortals."

Reed (gawks) "What the? My protocol didn't take?"

Tony (to Reed, eyes bugging in his shellhead) "That's not Clor! We are f*****."

[gorthon616]

Unfortunately, that can also be read to imply that the reason "Clor" is to play a big part in post-Civil War could mean that "Clor's real name" is...Thor. Seems to me that was pretty much hinted in Black Panther #24 as well when "Clor" screams out "I am not a myth!" Sounds like something Thor would say, minus the Elizabethian English. His resolution in Civil War #7 could be that "Clor" suddenly goes "Where am I? How did I get here? The last thing I remember was..." Reed tries to shut him down but it no longer works and "Clor" proclaims "My name is THOR!" and flies off. Because you see, even though "Clor" was a product of science, the real Thor was inadvertantly reincarnated as a result--I mean that's the kind of twist that would be right up JMS' alley. And yes, I soooooooo do not want this to be the case.

You know. Actually, that sounds kinda interesting......

[BooCoo]

Unfortunately, that can also be read to imply that the reason "Clor" is to play a big part in post-Civil War could mean that "Clor's real name" is...Thor. Seems to me that was pretty much hinted in Black Panther #24 as well when "Clor" screams out "I am not a myth!" Sounds like something Thor would say, minus the Elizabethian English. His resolution in Civil War #7 could be that "Clor" suddenly goes "Where am I? How did I get here? The last thing I remember was..." Reed tries to shut him down but it no longer works and "Clor" proclaims "My name is THOR!" and flies off. Because you see, even though "Clor" was a product of science, the real Thor was inadvertantly reincarnated as a result--I mean that's the kind of twist that would be right up JMS' alley. And yes, I soooooooo do not want this to be the case.

The only problem with the theory is that this "Thor" was created in a lab and has nothing to do with the original Thunder God. He's part cybernetic/cloned cells. Of course he would say he's no myth, that's probably programmed. I'm not sure memories can be duplicated that way either. Its possible Reed has programmed mannerisms and expressions the original Thor was known to have, like a tape loop. But if you go outside the 'loop' the reponses make no sense. I'd like to see if Clor can actually have a conversation requiring independent thought.

[Thursaiz]

This theory also makes the issues of Fantastic Four with the hammer basically pointless.

Reed would be smart enough to program thoughts into his head; probably similar to the 'memories' that Wolverine might have had implanted.

[DoctorDoom]

This theory also makes the issues of Fantastic Four with the hammer basically pointless.

Reed would be smart enough to program thoughts into his head; probably similar to the 'memories' that Wolverine might have had implanted.
hrmmm.. Agreed.

[Will.S]

"CLOR" is, without a doubt, the worst, most nerdy-sounding fan-generated nickname for any character ever, ever. Ever ever ever.
Hey you won't catch me saying it.

[d newton]

Tony (to Reed, eyes bugging in his shellhead) "That's not Clor! We are in big trouble."
You certainly are! :D

[Dracon]

From the previews, as we assumed, Clor does NOT have any stormlord powers. Ororo dominates the weather utterly.

He does have Thors strength and toughness. The only thing Ororo has which has the sheer wattage to hurt him is her lightening bolts. Which indicates no storm powers on his side again.

Of course, it also looks like she is fighting stupid. Why does she suddenly get in wrestling range of someone with that kind of strength.

[Exo]

From the previews, as we assumed, Clor does NOT have any stormlord powers.

But clone Thor can conjure up storms and summon lightningbolts from the sky. Whether it's within the same powerlevel as the original or not is still up for debate. At the very least he's a god of thunder IMO.

The only thing Ororo has which has the sheer wattage to hurt him is her lightening bolts.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/3766/bp254hv4.jpg

Assuming it's Ororo who's throwing all the bolts around, he can handle it.

[Go Go]

You know, if Black Panther and Storm hand Clor his ass, all future appearances of Clor will lack any suspense or feel of Clor posing any real threat.

[Lochdale]

The real Thor is immune to lightning. If this clone is anywhere near the real Thor then it will further devalue the great character that is the real Thor.

[kitamu re]

The real Thor is immune to lightning. If this clone is anywhere near the real Thor then it will further devalue the great character that is the real Thor


I think someone might disagree with you:rolleyes:

nowhere near that level. (I am not talking Endgame Thor as I know nothing of him.)

You mention Thor has innate control over the weather. Okay. However, I don't respect it much as even in Official Handbooks its generally mentioned as one of his hammer powers. Has he done anything impressive with the weather without the use of his hammer? Since in canon he has controlled weather without the hammer, we have to give it to him, but to say he is innately stronger than Ororo is a stretch to me.

Getting back to that goddess thing with Storm, she and the X-Men were kidnapped to another dimension-the dimension of the Trion. These were three elemental god-beings that were the sum of everything that dimension had been in the past, was at the present and will be in the future. They were the embodiment of the elemental forces of that entire dimension. Storm single-handedly outpowered them in combat and effectively defeated them. She's just that darn powerful of an elemental. Right now, I seriously doubt that Thor can beat Storm in a contest over the elements. If Storm evolved, she beats him hands down. Period. She can potentially control all that is in the universe itself. If you read Uncanny 166, it states that she can perceive the universe as patterns of energy and forces and bend it to her will. This places her well beyond Thor. Dark Phoenix was said to potentially have ultimate power. Power to put her past the cosmic abstracts. Storm's potential is on that level. This is canon

quoted for truth

[Lochdale]

I think someone might disagree with you:rolleyes:

quoted for truth

Depends on what you want to use as your primary source. The comics themselves or someone's interpretation of them.

This isn't the rumbles board but I will say that this argument would be utterly destroyed on those boards.

Anyways, I'm not sure from your post if you agree with this poster or not so apologies if I have mischarecterized you.

[Dracon]

But clone Thor can conjure up storms and summon lightningbolts from the sky. Whether it's within the same powerlevel as the original or not is still up for debate. At the very least he's a god of thunder IMO.

Did I miss an apperance of his? In Civil War, he did not control the weather, and in this preview he does not do so. He fires bolts from the hammer, thats all I've seen him do.

When did he influence the weather even slightly?



Assuming it's Ororo who's throwing all the bolts around, he can handle it.

We see Ororo concentrating, lifting her hand, and bolts oflightening striking Clor. Given that her power includes lightening, it seems reasonable to assume it is her lightening. Clor is staggered, and holds up his hands to protect himself.
Not enough power to put him down, but definitly hurting.

[stillanerd]

The only problem with the theory is that this "Thor" was created in a lab and has nothing to do with the original Thunder God. He's part cybernetic/cloned cells. Of course he would say he's no myth, that's probably programmed. I'm not sure memories can be duplicated that way either. Its possible Reed has programmed mannerisms and expressions the original Thor was known to have, like a tape loop. But if you go outside the 'loop' the reponses make no sense. I'd like to see if Clor can actually have a conversation requiring independent thought.

Well, this is where we could get into a real metaphysical quandary which JMS actually loves to get into. If he's created from Thor's own DNA, could he technically be the same as Thor? Does he have a soul? Is he, technically even alive? Doesn't his statement of "I am no myth" suggest self-awareness rather than conditioned response? If you say no to all those questions, couldn't you logically also apply the same thing to us as well? Are we more than the sum of our parts? Is Clor for that matter? If we have a situation on our hands where Clor actually gains free will, overrides his programming and has memories of beng Thor, does not make him Thor? And just because Clor was created by science, whose to say this also wasn't the way Thor was revived?

This theory also makes the issues of Fantastic Four with the hammer basically pointless.

Reed would be smart enough to program thoughts into his head; probably similar to the 'memories' that Wolverine might have had implanted.

Not necessarily. Just because a "Donald Blake" took Mjlonir doesn't necessarily mean that that person was Thor. Whose to say that wasn't just an artifical being who looked like Donald Blake created by Loki for the sole purpose of stealing Thor's hammer? Also, having the real Mjlonir missing provides a segway into Clor off in search of it in order to prove whether or not he truly is Thor. Not saying its all that great but it can be tied in. Also, one thing JMS also has a tendency to do is to make "red herrings" and "twists" out of things which seem self-explanatory to end up being totally different that what seemed obvious at the time.

[DoctorDoom]

Hrmmm....let the royal rumble commence!

[Lochdale]

Well, this is where we could get into a real metaphysical quandary which JMS actually loves to get into. If he's created from Thor's own DNA, could he technically be the same as Thor? Does he have a soul? Is he, technically even alive? Doesn't his statement of "I am no myth" suggest self-awareness rather than conditioned response? If you say no to all those questions, couldn't you logically also apply the same thing to us as well? Are we more than the sum of our parts? Is Clor for that matter? If we have a situation on our hands where Clor actually gains free will, overrides his programming and has memories of beng Thor, does not make him Thor? And just because Clor was created by science, whose to say this also wasn't the way Thor was revived?
.

Some interesting points to be sure but on a macro level I would find this a particularly poor way to restart a title. Clones have been done to death. Most Thor fans that I know just want Thor back. No clone, no Donald Blake, no mortal host. Nothing. Just Thor.

[gunnerfan69]

Some interesting points to be sure but on a macro level I would find this a particularly poor way to restart a title. Clones have been done to death. Most Thor fans that I know just want Thor back. No clone, no Donald Blake, no mortal host. Nothing. Just Thor.

Yes! Even though you have Roy Keane as your avatar truer words have not been spoken. ;)

[Scott Taylor]

You know, if Black Panther and Storm hand Clor his ass, all future appearances of Clor will lack any suspense or feel of Clor posing any real threat.

True. Although, it would also sort of make all the anti-reg heros look like wussies for getting beat and almost killed by him.

[Exo]

When did he influence the weather even slightly?

What? You think it was mere chance it just started raining the second he showed up in Civil War#3? No sooner was Hercules stricken by lightning that it started to poor rain on the battlefield. Clone Thor summoned those thunderbolts from the sky. And you can't have thunder without a thunderstorm.

Look more closely on the panel in CW#4 where Susan protects the resistance moments before Thor would have killed them with another thunderbolt. That bolt isn't coming directly from Thor's mallet but from the above (ie the sky). That spells "stormlord powers" in my book.

We see Ororo concentrating, lifting her hand, and bolts oflightening striking Clor. Given that her power includes lightening, it seems reasonable to assume it is her lightening. Clor is staggered, and holds up his hands to protect himself.

Not enough power to put him down, but definitly hurting.

That's one interpretation whereas mine was:

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6527/bpxo1.png

We'll just have to wait for the final build.

[Thursaiz]

That 'powering up' is obviously a requirement of the electric hammer. In Civil War #4, the thing that tore through Bill Foster looked more like a laser beam than a lightning bolt. I'm thinking it is rigged up to something along the lines of an orbital cannon to replicate lightning strikes.

A true display of Thor-ability would be 'flight'. All Storm has to do is go up into the clouds, and Clor would be a sitting duck. Since Thor can only fly with the aid of Mjolnir, the clone is grounded.

[Exo]

That 'powering up' is obviously a requirement of the electric hammer.

That liability is beside the point and doesn't reflect the wielder of the hammer; that is the clone of a thundergod. He's still a summoner of storms and lightning.

[Pike]

That liability is beside the point and doesn't reflect the wielder of the hammer; that is the clone of a thundergod. He's still a summoner of storms and lightning.

We don't know that. I think it's all just cybernetics and no innate power by the clone.

[Lochdale]

Yes! Even though you have Roy Keane as your avatar truer words have not been spoken. ;)

Heh. Viera was good but Keane was better.

[ForEverAncien]

Pray tell, what is that based on?
That liability is beside the point and doesn't reflect the wielder of the hammer; that is the clone of a thundergod. He's still a summoner of storms and lightning.

[Dracon]

What? You think it was mere chance it just started raining the second he showed up in Civil War#3? No sooner was Hercules stricken by lightning that it started to poor rain on the battlefield. Clone Thor summoned those thunderbolts from the sky. And you can't have thunder without a thunderstorm.

You can have guns without a thunderstorm. The pros could make an energyblast in the hammer, and they had forces ready.

All the resources of SHIELD were being brought to bear on making that look like the real Thor. We can make it rain a bit in our world. SHIELD chose that battleground and had plenty of time to set up anything they liked there. Heck, they could have held back the emergency alarm waiting for a storm to happen, or good conditions for rainseeding.

Look more closely on the panel in CW#4 where Susan protects the resistance moments before Thor would have killed them with another thunderbolt. That bolt isn't coming directly from Thor's mallet but from the above (ie the sky). That spells "stormlord powers" in my book.

It spells "SHIELD forces directly above" in my book. Also, compare the art. The bolt that killed Foster looks similar to the bolt striking Susan Storms force field, and the bolt striking Hercules. But not to lightening, as produced by Storm.
To me, the fact that it looks so similar to the obviously non-lightning bolts from the hammer indicates that it originates from the same tech.

That's one interpretation whereas mine was:

http://img131.imageshack.us/img131/6527/bpxo1.png


The interpretation is similar to mine, except that frame 1, Clors upper body is thrown back by the strikes. Frame 3, Clor is covering himself with his arms, trying to protect himself. Which spells "hurting" to me. He is definitly not ignoring the lightening.

Also, he still makes no attempt to influence the weather or the lightening. He fires back with the fake hammer. It seems essential to me that he never even tries to challenge Storm for weather, even when getting pounded on.

Oh, and thats still not Thor. Its his brother. And I cannot remember any case of Norse gods having the same powers just because they are twins, or siblings.

[gunnerfan69]

Heh. Viera was good but Keane was better.

And how many World Cups did Keane lift? :D ;) Vieras arms got tired lifting that trophy over and over again in '98;)

[Post-It]

Please, he may have cloned skin and hair but he is still a robot. Storm has been kicking Sentinels' asses for years. Besides the fact that people know its not the real deal means they will not hold back, especially considering that it has killed. I see Storm distracting Clor while BP goes highlander with the ebony blade. Why else would he keep it? Just because he looks like thor does not make him thor.

2 married heroes with decades of fighting experience: 1
Brand new machine/clone: 0

[Sparda]

^ya but clor has implanted memories of battles that the real thor did, and clor treat's them as his own, so though it's not his, it will help alot for his fight.

[Post-It]

^ya but clor has implanted memories of battles that the real thor did, and clor treat's them as his own, so though it's not his, it will help alot for his fight.

Where does it say he has Thor memories of battles? At most he probably just has video downloaded from Stark. Its not like Stark was around for all his battles. Plus, Im pretty sure no downloading can give it Thor's inner thoughts or strategies.

[Exo]

I think it's all just cybernetics and no innate power by the clone.

Then what's the point of having a Thor if it's the hammer plus a few cybernetic implants doing all the work? It took the whole three of them (Tony, Reed and Hank) with the necessity of SHIELD's resources and government aid to make one measly copycat with no 'stormlord powers' whatsoever? Why go through all this trouble only to make a few fanboys heads spinning? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

Theoretically speaking, if Miles Warren proved it possible to clone a spider man, why couldn't the same branch of science be applied to clone a god?

All the resources of SHIELD were being brought to bear on making that look like the real Thor.

Whether it's cybernetic implants, hammer or not, from the looks of it in CW#3-4, he summoned the storm, the thunder and what have you on his own accord. That includes the murder of Bill Foster and the attempted murder on almost everyone else hadn't Sue interfered. NOT SHIELD.

[LordAllMighty]

Then what's the point of having a Thor if it's the hammer plus a few cybernetic implants doing all the work? It took the whole three of them (Tony, Reed and Hank) with the necessity of SHIELD's resources and government aid to make one measly copycat with no 'stormlord powers' whatsoever? Why go through all this trouble only to make a few fanboys heads spinning? It doesn't sound plausible to me.

It was to show that Thor, perhaps the most powerful superhero on Marvel's Earth was on the side of Registration.:)

[Thursaiz]

Yeah, it was totally a fear tactic. Look at the line in Civil War #4 when some of the Anti folks are saying how the cause is lost because Thor is on Tony's side.

[Fastballspecial]

Personally love BP currently its my fav book of the month right now. I dont really want Clor in it as it takes away from the current storyline some in it. I see Clor getting his circuits fried somehow. Keep in mind it hasnt been revealed if Thor is the Master of the Storm like the real Thor is. I think Storm could come with a concoction of weather that could throw him off balance. Wind, ice and so on. I hope they dont make her look weak. The art looks fantastic.

BP and Storm work well so far. This from a person who hated the marriage at first. I hope Hudlin draws in some fans from this book. BP is a book that is better then its sales show. Check it out all I dont think you will disappointed.

[Firemane]

Storm powers have evolved to the point that based purely on power levels this yahoo should be no problem.Her main hinderance is that she has a tendacy to hold back ( perhaps that has changed in recent yrs) when human life is involved.Against the REAL thing I would expect a stalemate at bestdepending on WHICH Storm and Which Thor shows up.

[Post-It]

Storm powers have evolved to the point that based purely on power levels this yahoo should be no problem.Her main hinderance is that she has a tendacy to hold back ( perhaps that has changed in recent yrs) when human life is involved.Against the REAL thing I would expect a stalemate at bestdepending on WHICH Storm and Which Thor shows up.

Exactly. People keep forgetting how truly powerful Storm is, she doesnt just make it rain. Not only is she a possible omega level mutant (hinted by Claremont and Hudlin), she has been said by Jean Grey to possess the most powerful and beautiful soul she has ever seen, comes from a long line of incredibly powerful practioners of white magic, is a skilled martial artist, accomplished thief, is nearly immune to the effects of weather, and is revered as a God.
If it comes to blows the machine will win, but at a distance that scrap of metal is out of its league challenging Storm.

[Adamantium_Avatar]

Please excuse my confusion here but people keep referring to Clor as a machine..

I thought he was created as a 'clone' from a strand of hair that Tony Stark obtained from the real Thor while he was actually just Thor (no Donald Blake alter-ego)

Has he been shown to have cybernetic components?

[bloodyarts]

I thought [Clor] was created as a 'clone' from a strand of hair that Tony Stark obtained from the real Thor while he was actually just Thor (no Donald Blake alter-ego)

Has he been shown to have cybernetic components?

Well, there's a panel in CW5 (?) that shows wiring and tech hooked up to his hammer, suggesting it's a technological weapon. As for Clor himself, gearhounds at Tony's base were digging in Clor's brain while he lay on the gurney all doe-eyed.

My best bet is, Clor's a clone with some cybernetic implants. Thor's BODY is cloned, but all the super-strength, durability and whatever else is cybernetically-enhanced and in tune with the hammer. Since all of the real Thor's might and powers are via magic 'gifts', there's no way science could clone that, but they could fake it with technology.

[Post-It]

Please excuse my confusion here but people keep referring to Clor as a machine..

I thought he was created as a 'clone' from a strand of hair that Tony Stark obtained from the real Thor while he was actually just Thor (no Donald Blake alter-ego)

Has he been shown to have cybernetic components?

My understanding of Clor is that while he was cloned from hair, he is also cybernetic. Unless I am wrong.

[superion]

Exactly. People keep forgetting how truly powerful Storm is, she doesnt just make it rain. Not only is she a possible omega level mutant (hinted by Claremont and Hudlin), she has been said by Jean Grey to possess the most powerful and beautiful soul she has ever seen, comes from a long line of incredibly powerful practioners of white magic, is a skilled martial artist, accomplished thief, is nearly immune to the effects of weather, and is revered as a God.
If it comes to blows the machine will win, but at a distance that scrap of metal is out of its league challenging Storm.

What good is a powerful and beautiful soul in a fight and even with her martial arts skills one shot from Clor and she's paste. Her only chance is to take him down with the lightning but if Clor is immune to it like Thor is supposed to be than she's pretty much out of luck with offensive weapons.

[kitamu re]

What good is a powerful and beautiful soul in a fight and even with her martial arts skills one shot from Clor and she's paste. Her only chance is to take him down with the lightning but if Clor is immune to it like Thor is supposed to be than she's pretty much out of luck with offensive weapons.

storm being an elemental has command of all the forces of nature lightning is just one small aspect of that power.

[Lochdale]

So long as she stays away from him then she's fine.

The real Thor vastly outmatches Storm but this parody doesn't.

[superion]

storm being an elemental has command of all the forces of nature lightning is just one small aspect of that power.

Unless something with Storm changed she can only control the weather. Wind, rain, snow, temparature changes and lightning. Only wind and lightning are any use in the fight. If Clor is immune to lightning that only leaves tornadoes and dropping the tempature as her only options in this fight.

Last I saw Storm just has human resistence to tempature changes so if she drops the tempature in the area to below zero or something she is far more likely to take herself out before Clor. Meanwhile one shot from Clor would finish her though Clor does not seem to be able to fly so if Storm just stays away from him he would seem to be able to launch any kind of attach on her.

[kitamu re]

Unless something with Storm changed she can only control the weather. Wind, rain, snow, temparature changes and lightning.


those are not the limits of an elemental..a true elemental can control the fabric of space time itself. weather is not static it deasl with varitations betwen electrons and protons:cool:

[The Shadow]

storm being an elemental has command of all the forces of nature lightning is just one small aspect of that power.

... when was Storm revealed to be an elemental?? :confused:

Are you talking about Hudlin's hinting at greater power in BP #21?

[XPac]

... when was Storm revealed to be an elemental?? :confused:

Are you talking about Hudlin's hinting at greater power in BP #21?

I remember a really old X-Men storyline a ways back where Illyana was first taken by Belasco. There was an alternate reality version of Storm that was a sorceress... so they may have hinted a long while back that there was a mystical element to Storm.

If any modern writers want to run that angle with Storm, there would be some level of credence to the idea.

[LordAllMighty]

I'm guessing this ends the whole cyborg or clone part of this thread

http://img411.imageshack.us/my.php?image=untitled18ja1.jpg

[Exo]

I'm guessing this ends the whole cyborg or clone part of this thread

Yeah.

I think it just did. *vomits*