Old Marvel artists or new?

[BigBoss]

Witch do u apprectiate are like more. I pick old school.

[Expletive Deleted]

How about some examples of the two groups?

I mean, for "old school" are we talking '60s, or more recent?

[Mikl C]

......? Saywha?

[BigBoss]

old school 60s to 1993. new 1993 till now.

[a-spidey]

old school 60s to 1993. new 1993 till now.

okay then i'm for new school. Even when 1993 till now means a wide range of different artists.

also too young to go with old-school.

[MAK15]

I enjoy the new school artists, it gives other artists such as myself hope that one day millions of people on message-boards such as this will bnater back and forth on who is better, and my name will be among those discussed.

[marshal99]

If new school means drawing very exaggerated art and crappy manga wannabe art type , then no thanks , gimme old school anyday and i don't mean Rob Liefield image type oldschool. ;)

[Kage Kisaragi]

i can't pick.

[david r]

old school 60s to 1993. new 1993 till now.

That means old school encompasses Jack Kirby, Gene Colan, Jim Lee, John Byrne, Walt Simonson, Steve Ditko, John Buscema, Todd McFarlane, Barry Windsor-Smith, Art Adams, Dale Keown, Frank Miller, Dave Cockrum, George Perez, Marc Silvestri, Paul Smith, etc.

Yes, they win.

[StoneGold]

That means old school encompasses Jack Kirby, Gene Colan, Jim Lee, John Byrne, Walt Simonson, Steve Ditko, John Buscema, Todd McFarlane, Barry Windsor-Smith, Art Adams, Dale Keown, Frank Miller, Dave Cockrum, Paul Smith, etc.

Yes, they win.

Yeah, but it also encompasses Don Heck, Larry Lieber, Frank Robbins...

[ultramandingo]

i keep seeing gil kane wearin addias , a pork pie hat and a big ass gold chain

[dingo]

old school 60s to 1993. new 1993 till now.

That is pretty.... vague, but I guess I have to go for old school based on just a few outstanding artists.

The talent pool seems to have a lot more depth nowadays than back then, but the balance is tipped in old schools favour due to the trailblazer factor.

[Sam T.]

Old school all the way for me!!

[BigBoss]

dingo what do u mean?

[Crimson]

I'm mote likely to list alot of the "older artists" as my favourites but I like the technology that has come about over the past 10 or 20 years. I'd say that we have just as many talented people working in the industry today though... we have amazing art talent these days.

[dingo]

dingo what do u mean?

Well you have narrowed it down to a 33 year period, which is a little bit vague.

I think the 60's were great almost soley on the back of Kirby, but there were a few others.
The seventies: not so much catches my eye.
The eighties, things pick up again to my mind.

They are hugely different era's but all are getting lumped together against the last decade and a bit.

[niall mc cann]

I think the 60's were great almost soley on the back of Kirby, but there were a few others.
The seventies: not so much catches my eye.
The eighties, things pick up again to my mind.

Seventies; Neal Adams? He started in the sixties, i know, but he would still have been around, and he's distinctly different from guys like Kirby who might constitute an iconically "60s" style. BWS was also learning the ropes at that stage.

I'm voting old school, because the poll is unfairly stacked that way. 1960-1993 no more constitutes a single "school" than 1200-2000 would.

[MAK15]

hey, would John Byrne be considered old school?
even though hes done some stuff in recent years?

[Euchre0]

offhand, i bet at least 8 of my top 10 favorite artists have been since the 90's. that said, i still think that there were more great artists in the days of yore than there are today. Kirby, Kane and Romita completely dominate the majority today.

plus, in the mid-90's there were 100s of crappy books from DC and Marvel with absolutely terrible artists.

[damienwhiter]

That means old school encompasses Jack Kirby, Gene Colan, Jim Lee, John Byrne, Walt Simonson, Steve Ditko, John Buscema, Todd McFarlane, Barry Windsor-Smith, Art Adams, Dale Keown, Frank Miller, Dave Cockrum, George Perez, Marc Silvestri, Paul Smith, etc.

Yes, they win.

It's a difficult question to answer. Of the artists listed here Gene Colan, Jim Lee, John Byrne, John Buscema, Barry Windsor-Smith, Art Adams, George Perez, Marc Silvestri & Paul Smith have all drawn Marvel books since 1993. Also many of the top Marvel artists of today (eg. John Romita Jr, Mark Bagley, Salvador Larroca, Ron Garney, Bryan Hitch etc) worked for Marvel prior to 1993.

A better question would be, when do you think there was the best group of artists working at Marvel? I'd say 1989. Although 1985 could come a close second.

[damienwhiter]

Yeah, but it also encompasses Don Heck, Larry Lieber, Frank Robbins...

That's fighting talk where I come from. I love Don Heck's work, he was able to put so much characterisation into his storytelling, you always knew what his characters felt and why. He also drew the most beautiful women of the period. I'll also point out that John Buscema was on record saying that Heck was one of the underrated greats. If John Buscema rated an artist, who can argue?

And as for Frank Robbins, if you read Mark Evanier's book collections of his POV columns you'll read an anecdote of someone telling Gil Kane they were glad he'd taken over a book from "that hack" Frank Robbins. Kane refused to sign this fans book. If Gil Kane admired an artist, who are you to dismiss him?

I'll admit to not being the biggest Larry Lieber fan, but his work was always focussed on storytelling and his covers were always eye-catching. And I always felt his writing was good.

[Blue Blaze]

I think every generation has greats and not so greats. The thing with artists of the past fifteen years, is that many of the very best went to Image, Crossgen, Dark Horse, Topcow, Devils Due etceteras. So their work is lesser known. I know a few years ago I picked up a few Magdalena, Sojourn, Promethea, Witchblade, Shi... and was amazed at how great everything was from pencils to ink to layout to colors.

I know Marvel artists win awards at shows like Wizards and Comic buyers guide. But at shows that are based on the cartoon comic industry and judged by proffessionals and not fans. Marvel never wins. I think they have won two Eisners and two Harvey's for artist, in the past fifteen years.

Marvel has the market share, best overall universe and characters but they lack in artist and are behind to even DC in that department. The reason is probably artists get more freedom and can own their characters at other companies. There is a systemic problem between great artists and Marvel; which became evident during the Image coup of 1991 when the seven top artists, McFarlane, Valentino, Larsen, Liefeld, Lee, Silvestri, and Portacio, all chose to leave the company. Marvel is a machine and proved artists are replacable even if they all leave. I'm sure Marvel counted those guys leaving and it not causing any lasting effects a moral victory and they probably didn't change a thing about there policy.

So, for Marvel I'd say old school but for the entire genre probably new.

[david r]

I think the 60's were great almost soley on the back of Kirby, but there were a few others.

Jack Kirby was KING of the 1960s. He defined Fantastic Four, Hulk, Thor, Avengers, X-Men, Captain America,Ant-Man and co-created countless characters.
Steve Ditko defined Spider-Man and Doctor Strange.
John Buscema worked on Daredevil and Spider-Man. Gene Colan on Daredevil.
Neal Adams on X-Men.

The seventies: not so much catches my eye.

A lot catches my eye! ;) We got Gene Colan on Tomb of Dracula & Howard the Duck.
Barry Windsor-Smith and John Buscema on Conan.
Dave Cockrum & John Byrne's stellar work on X-Men.
Michael Golden on Micronauts
Byrne on Iron Fist, Marvel Team-Up and Avengers
George Perez on Avengers
Neal Adams on Avengers
Jack Kirby's return to Captain America, Eternals, Black Panther, 2001, Machine Man, Devil Dinosaur

The eighties, things pick up again to my mind.

Frank Miller on Daredevil
John Byrne on Fantastic Four, Alpha Flight, Hulk, West Coast Avengers, Captain America
Walt Simonson on Thor, X-Factor
John Buscema on Avengers, Wolverine
X-Men (Paul Smith, John Romita Jr., Marc Silvestri, Jim Lee)
Alan Davis on Captain Britain and Excalibur
Todd McFarlane on Hulk & Spider-Man
Jim Lee on Punisher War Journal
John Romita Jr. on Iron Man, Spider-Man, X-Men
Rob Liefeld on New Mutants

[david r]

hey, would John Byrne be considered old school?
even though hes done some stuff in recent years?

Yes, under these guidelines, he's old school. His first work was in the mid-1970s.

He had his biggest fame from 1977 (1st year on X-Men) til the end of his Superman years (1986-88).

[Babylon23]

If old school means 60's to 1993, then I'd probably have to go with old school. However, you're talking 30+ years of talent, so it's hard not to vote old school. Most of my favourite artists date back to this period.

Of course, there's a lot of modern artists I love as well.

[Punch]

If there must only be 2 categories Old School should be 1960's to the 80's
New School- 90's to now.

I'm all for the Old School.
Miller
Neal Adams
Sienkiewicz
Romita
Ditko
Mazzuchelli
BWS
Art Adams

[xarathos]

At this point, I wanted to say 'whomeever gets his work done' Admittedly the old school had a better work ethic because they had to.

[Dusty.]

The old school artists were more dependable and creative, and they didn't have the benefit of taking their time and being digitally colored on better paperstock.

John Buscema, John Byrne, George Perez, Walt Simonson, John Romita Jr., Todd McFarlane, Mike Zeck, ... It's hard to compare to. I will say this, however, Marvel has never had the artistic standards like they have today. Their stable of artists blows away DC, and there are so many that I can list 30 Marvel artists, and I'd be leaving some notable names off the list.

(In no particular order)

1. Steve Epting
2. Steve McNiven
3. Trevor Hairsine
4. Chris Weston
5. Salvador Larocca
6. Marc Silvestri
7. Alan Davis
8. Gary Frank
9. John Romita Jr.
10. Michael Turner
11. Joe Mad
12. Simone Bianchi
13. Paul Pelletier
14. Olivier Coipel
15. David Finch
16. John Cassaday
17. Mike Deodato
18. Pablo Raimondi
19. Bryan Hitch
20. Jae Lee
21. Brandon Peterson
22. Paul Gulacy
23. Andrea Di Vito
24. Scott Kolins
25. Greg Land
26. Jimmy Cheung
27. Mark Bagley
28. Joe Quasada
29. Rob Liefeld
30. Lienil Yu

[Ivan Isaacs]

One name: John Buscema

Old school wins.

[dingo]

I know that there was a lot of great stuff in the seventies, but it just seems not as strong as the sixties or eighties in general.

Middle child syndrome I guess.


Also: am I the only one that doesn't really see much merit in Ditko's work.
I am not well versed in what makes technically good art, can someone tell me if he would have been well respected if not for Spider-man?

[niall mc cann]

I know that there was a lot of great stuff in the seventies, but it just seems not as strong as the sixties or eighties in general.

Middle child syndrome I guess.


Also: am I the only one that doesn't really see much merit in Ditko's work.
I am not well versed in what makes technically good art, can someone tell me if he would have been well respected if not for Spider-man?

To be honest, i know him mainly from Spider-man.

His work on that title was great, though, to me.

Some of his Doc Strange was trippy and cool, too.

[mrc1214]

Some of my favorite artists of all time would be old school Marvel. Like Byrne, Simonson,Kirby.

But thats not taking away from the awesome artists Marvel has now. So I really can choose.

[scottv]

I went with new school because, except for a few older comics, that is all I know. I also just like the way it looks a lot more than the old stuff. I can appreciate the fact that the old school stuff represents the start of it all and the new school stuff wouldn't be here with out it.

[Your Imaginary Pal]

I went with the old school. There was more emphasis on story telling and many of the artists then were working on multiple monthlies with little or no delays. The only person with real deadlin issues when I was coming up was Art Adams. Maybe editorial had something to do with this, but a professional given a deadline doesn't reall need to have someone breathing down their back to gwt the work in on time. The 60's until 93 is a pretty wide berth, but I'm guessing that you're breaking with the formation of image. If that's the case you've still got Jim Lee, Silvestri, McFarlane, Portacio and Liefeld at Marvel before 93.
After they split, there were a lot of artists that were around judt to do their best to imitate the "big dogs." Some of them have come into their own, but others will be remembered forever as mimes and shadows of the greatness that came before them.

There is a good crop of artists now, don't get me wrong. I guess the old school has more of a rich history, greater influence and more variety.

[david r]

Also: am I the only one that doesn't really see much merit in Ditko's work.
I am not well versed in what makes technically good art, can someone tell me if he would have been well respected if not for Spider-man?

By the standards of today, Steve Ditko may not be so special. but he was considered a great artist in the '60s and always got his work on time. Plus, he was hugely influential in co-creating Spider-Man's impressive Rogues Gallery. And that alone makes him a Marvel visionary.

Spider-Man, Doctor Octopus, Green Goblin, Chameleon, the Lizard, Vulture, Mysterio, Electro, Kraven the Hunter. And many more, we take them for granted now. But Steve was extremely creative and like Jack Kirby he was an artistic genius.

[Ikaris]

I pick whatever group you put Alan Davis into?

[steve2275]

anyone i like
doesnt matter otherwise

[Niro]

i like the artists during late eighties to late nineties