Nova's Power level, from Nova Prime Page

[40yearoldnovafan]

When Nova & Quasar went up against Annihilus, the World Mind told Richard he was increasing power to his bio-pattern. Richard told him "Don't give me too much."

Rich is far more powerful than we will probably ever know. He is afraid to go crazy and lose control. He is afraid to be like Garthan Saal. And I believe he is afraid to use that much power because, in his mind, his body may disintegrate.

Rich is extremely powerful. When he fought Annihilus the second time, I'm sure he did not allow the World Mind to "give him too much." It's more than he's had in the past, but far less than he has available to him.

And again, Time Lord, you are correct. Nova at least needs an enormous amount of power reserves to deal with cosmic villains. Remember when Erik Larsen was writing Nova, he had Reed Richards decrease Nova's power levels? This is because that was the only way earthly villains would be able to fight with Nova. He would have been able to just end the fight immediately. Remember the unbelievable power he used during the Epyrus-7 flashback.

Richard's power has always been limited, even from the first series. When he initially received the Nova Force, he shot force beams from his eyes from his hospital bed. But after that all he ever did was fly around and punch folks. That is, until his second series.

Now with his new series, he will have far more access to all his powers. And he will have to use it. These will not be earthly petty threats he will be going up against. I think this was a great move.

Jimmy

[nova64]

When Nova & Quasar went up against Annihilus, the World Mind told Richard he was increasing power to his bio-pattern. Richard told him "Don't give me too much."

Rich is far more powerful than we will probably ever know. He is afraid to go crazy and lose control. He is afraid to be like Garthan Saal. And I believe he is afraid to use that much power because, in his mind, his body may disintegrate.

Rich is extremely powerful. When he fought Annihilus the second time, I'm sure he did not allow the World Mind to "give him too much." It's more than he's had in the past, but far less than he has available to him.

And again, Time Lord, you are correct. Nova at least needs an enormous amount of power reserves to deal with cosmic villains. Remember when Erik Larsen was writing Nova, he had Reed Richards decrease Nova's power levels? This is because that was the only way earthly villains would be able to fight with Nova. He would have been able to just end the fight immediately. Remember the unbelievable power he used during the Epyrus-7 flashback.

Richard's power has always been limited, even from the first series. When he initially received the Nova Force, he shot force beams from his eyes from his hospital bed. But after that all he ever did was fly around and punch folks. That is, until his second series.

Now with his new series, he will have far more access to all his powers. And he will have to use it. These will not be earthly petty threats he will be going up against. I think this was a great move.

Jimmy

Yep, he's been amped up big time. And the potential has always been there like you pointed out. The eye blasts in The Man Called Nova #1 were a precursor to the gravimetric pulse and later in The Man Called Nova #23, Dr. Sun says that Nova has incredible potential once he learns the full extent of his power like Rhomann Dey did.

I agree that Rich's psyche is subconsciously keeping the power to what he feels is a managable level. He's held the full power once before without restraint during the StarLost Saga and I think it really rattled him. He briefly lost control, destroyed a number of Shi'Ar ships and briefly died when he released the power into the WorldMind. That's going to leave a mark, you know. And given his feelings about Garthan Saal, he is probably determined not to become like him ever.

Another aspect that might be keeping the power levels down is the WorldMind. He's only giving Rich the force that Rich feels he can handle but I'd have to think that the WorldMind also requires a certain amount of the Nova Force to exist and function.

Although, in Annihilation #6, oops, just a sec....SPOILERS!!!....
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where was I? Oh, yeah. Although, in Annihilation #6, I think Rich (either consciously, sub-consciously or unknowingly by the WorldMind) accessed more Nova Force than he did before. In the first fight with Annihilus, Nova was pretty much one punch and down with a scar. In the rematch, he not only survived Galactus's tantrum, he was able to generate a force bubble (which he hasn't done before), shot energy blasts and ripped out Annihilus's innards (I love the word innards. It's a funny word.)

I hope they let the power levels grow naturally during the new series. For me, it's more fun to watch him grow into the powers instead of him being amped up all at once and knowing instantly how to use and control it.

Doug

[XPac]

But isn't Nova suppossed to eventually give up containing ALL the Nova force? They're suppossed to eventually find a new home for it and the Worldmind before it causes mental and physical problems for him.

The power up he has is significant, but I think the idea is that it's suppossed to be temporary (sort of like Kyle with the power of Ion).

[Baltho08]

But isn't Nova suppossed to eventually give up containing ALL the Nova force? They're suppossed to eventually find a new home for it and the Worldmind before it causes mental and physical problems for him.

The power up he has is significant, but I think the idea is that it's suppossed to be temporary (sort of like Kyle with the power of Ion).

In an interview I saw about the new Nova on-going (I forget which interview it was), the creator in question implies that the Worldmind is going to convince Nova to keep him.
Peace.

[Satyrquaze]

The thing I note is an ommission about the WorldMind warning Nova that Annihilus outclasses him funamentally on every level back in Ann: Nova #4.

Yes, he is a powerful as Garthan Sal, but I feel that despite the events of Annihilation #6, Annihilus is still more powerful.

[XPac]

The thing I note is an ommission about the WorldMind warning Nova that Annihilus outclasses him funamentally on every level back in Ann: Nova #4.

Yes, he is a powerful as Garthan Sal, but I feel that despite the events of Annihilation #6, Annihilus is still more powerful.

Was there ever an explanation on exactyly why Annihilus is suddenly suppossed to be this uber powerful? He was a moderate challenge to the FF, and I think he gave Thor a reasonably good run for his money back in the day.

But he was never shown to be any sort of high end threat before. I certainly had trouble buying that he was more powerful than Quasar or Thanos.

[gabesword]

Was there ever an explanation on exactyly why Annihilus is suddenly suppossed to be this uber powerful? He was a moderate challenge to the FF, and I think he gave Thor a reasonably good run for his money back in the day.

But he was never shown to be any sort of high end threat before. I certainly had trouble buying that he was more powerful than Quasar or Thanos.
He got the quantum bands and he was leeching the power cosmic from Galactus. That was where he got the extra power from.

[Satyrquaze]

He got the quantum bands and he was leeching the power cosmic from Galactus. That was where he got the extra power from.

The quote I brought up was from during the fight between Annihilus, Nova, and Quasar... back in Annihilation: Nova #4.

Well before he has tapping into Galactus' power and just before he had taken the Quantum-bands.

[Mephistologist]

Cosmic Control Rod. Thats how he took out Quasar wasnt it? Absorbed him into it right? I was surprised he never used that when he fought Nova the second time.

[XPac]

Cosmic Control Rod. Thats how he took out Quasar wasnt it? Absorbed him into it right? I was surprised he never used that when he fought Nova the second time.

If he can suck people in his rod easily, it's kind of suprising that he never used it againstthe FF in the dozens of times he's fought them too. If he can do that to a character as powerful as Quasar, I can't imagine too many people being able to counter it.

Though his fight with Nova can be justified as him not being anywhere near 100%.

[NovaScifii]

I have been meaning to start a thread on this exact issue but was waiting till I actually read the last Issue of the main Annihilation mini. I agree that the Novaforce has been portrayed as being far more extensive than what Rich seems to be using. He has always been reluctant to use his power to it's fullest extent. He had to meet an alternate version of himself before he started accepting that he could do a lot more than he allowed himself to normally do (Larson having Richards drain much of his power off was a plot device that would help him justify stories depicting Rich as he was back in the late 70s).

As far as Rich being outclassed by Annihilus, I think there are a few specific things that contribute to this ... firstly he is still relatively new to his current power level while Annihilus is not. Remember Annihilus is at least a few thousand years old and has a lot of experience doing what he does. Secondaly, as was said earlier, Rich sets limits on his power and is very hard pressed to go beyond those limits (something I hope the writers of his new series will explore more fully and eventually get him past). Thirdly, despite his potential power, Rich is not a very well trained combatant. At best he would be considered an inspired fighter who takes advantage of his physical abilites very well (similar to SpiderMan actually). In that fight in Annihilation #6, Annihilus would probably be described as being at near herald level in power and Rich would also be at approximately that same level. Annihilus clearly had a much better grasp of what he could do and how to do it, while Rich was simply overwhelmed. As a result he got his butt kicked and nearly killed. Methinks a more experienced fighter at that power level (Thor, Beta Ray Bill, Firelord, Stardust, and Binary to name a few) would have likely been a whole lot more effective against Annihilus from the get go.
So in short, I think Rich will be a lot more effective after he gets past his mental barriers when using his powers (after all, having the Worldmind in him should make a huge difference when controlling the Novaforce .... especially since the Worldmind was previously in control of the full Novaforce power bdfore it downloaded into Rich). Also, Once he becomes accustomed to what he can do and gets combat training, he will be a wholly different level of threat to most commers.

[Expletive Deleted]

In that first fight with Annihilus, it's worth remembering that Nova was also maintaining a ridiculously huge stargate at the same time. Plus, the Worldmind was partially distracted, managing the stargate as well as trying to hack the Annihilation Wave's computers.

The second time around, there were fewer distractions and Annihilus had already taken a beating from the Galactus Event (and, seriously, you have no idea how much I love that name).

As for Quasar, Annihilus was using the Control Rod to "eat" Quasar's shields and drain power from the Bands. Without that protection, Wendell was vulnerable. The art is a little unclear, but I think that with the bands neutralized, he was simply disintegrated.

Even if that's not the case . . . if he was sucked into any nearby piece of cosmic jewelry, it was probably his own bands.

[40yearoldnovafan]

If he can suck people in his rod easily, it's kind of suprising that he never used it againstthe FF in the dozens of times he's fought them too. If he can do that to a character as powerful as Quasar, I can't imagine too many people being able to counter it.

Though his fight with Nova can be justified as him not being anywhere near 100%.

It was the Quantum energy he sucked in, which, I guess, destroyed Quasar. He doesn't just suck people in.

[Will.S]

I don't think Annihilus could have absorbed the Nova Force as easily as he did with Quasar. He would have tried that right away if that was the case when he fought alongside Phyla.

I'd like to see some strength feats myself but you can certainly see that his powers are expanding in use such as with the bubble and projectile blasts. I could definitely see him on par with a herald of galactus with what we've seen so far but not really in Surfer's league (post Galactus herald) just yet.

[XPac]

I don't think Annihilus could have absorbed the Nova Force as easily as he did with Quasar. He would have tried that right away if that was the case when he fought alongside Phyla.

I'd like to see some strength feats myself but you can certainly see that his powers are expanding in use such as with the bubble and projectile blasts. I could definitely see him on par with a herald of galactus with what we've seen so far but not really in Surfer's league (post Galactus herald) just yet.

Well, he was able to absord the energy of the Quanton Bands, and that's saying a lot. That's like an entire dimensions worth of power... if he can do that, I can imagine him in theory being able to absord the Nova Force.

And the fact that QUasar himself is a top tier energy manipulator actually makes the feat even more impressive. Usually Quasar is doing that very thing to other people.

It's possible we're talking apples and oranges here... but if he can do it with Quasar then you're probably good till unless you're dealing with a Galactus or something.

As far as Nova power levels go... maxed out Garthan Saal was more powerful than Firelord, the Avengers, and Fantastic Four combined. So in theiry current Nova potentially should have MORE raw power than your atypical herald of Galactus (though Surfer has such ridiculous levels of versatility that I wouldn't say he was more powerful than Surfer).

I would imagine maxed out, he's in the Skyfather ballpark.

[Will.S]

Well, he was able to absord the energy of the Quanton Bands, and that's saying a lot. That's like an entire dimensions worth of power... if he can do that, I can imagine him in theory being able to absord the Nova Force.

And the fact that QUasar himself is a top tier energy manipulator actually makes the feat even more impressive. Usually Quasar is doing that very thing to other people.

It's possible we're talking apples and oranges here... but if he can do it with Quasar then you're probably good till unless you're dealing with a Galactus or something.
Hmm, re-reading Nova #4 the Worldmind does mention that Annihilus could feed on the Nova Force as he did with Quasar so you're right. On the other hand, Nova managed to trick Annihilus's forces to destroy themselves using Annihilus so that's a cool sliver of a new power.

As far as Nova power levels go... maxed out Garthan Saal was more powerful than Firelord, the Avengers, and Fantastic Four combined. So in theiry current Nova potentially should have MORE raw power than your atypical herald of Galactus (though Surfer has such ridiculous levels of versatility that I wouldn't say he was more powerful than Surfer).

I would imagine maxed out, he's in the Skyfather ballpark.
I'm leery about placing him that high, we've seen Nova do some crazy stuff with Quasar and smashing through ships but what were the Garthan Saal feats of old anyway?

[Thursaiz]

But isn't Nova suppossed to eventually give up containing ALL the Nova force? They're suppossed to eventually find a new home for it and the Worldmind before it causes mental and physical problems for him.

I can see this becoming an interesting cosmic event of itself. If Richard grows to like the power, and doesn't want to give it up...who could take it from him?

[XPac]

I can see this becoming an interesting cosmic event of itself. If Richard grows to like the power, and doesn't want to give it up...who could take it from him?

Yeah... they see to have set that up rather nicely. The Nove force is suppossed to eventually drive him nuts... so it he doesn't find it a new home, its seemingly inevitable that he'll go nuts. And when he does, he'll need to be stopped. It's a nice event in the making if they want to go there.

I wonder if eventually he'll just do what Kyle did and return it's power to restart the Corps.

[NovaScifii]

Yeah... they see to have set that up rather nicely. The Nove force is suppossed to eventually drive him nuts... so it he doesn't find it a new home, its seemingly inevitable that he'll go nuts. And when he does, he'll need to be stopped. It's a nice event in the making if they want to go there.

I wonder if eventually he'll just do what Kyle did and return it's power to restart the Corps.


There are some very significant differences surrounding Nova's current situation and his/Saal's previous one with the full Novaforce. Currently Rider has the Worlmind with him to regulate the Novaforce. It has also been suggested that Rich has a greater potential for control of the Novaforce than almost any other Nova Centurian as his knowledge of his powers increased. Lastly Rich put some serious limits on the amount of Novaforce he is able to use most of the time, if not indefinitely. Time will tell though.

Based on the backstory, the Xandarian Worldmind generally has full control of the Novaforce, which it used to use to power the numerous members fo the Nova Corps and power the Xandarian civilization. It currently reinforces Rich's mental and physical stability so that he can function while hosting both it and the full Novaforce. Part of this was creating for Rich a uniform that was designed to assist him in regulating the significantly hightened Novaforce energy he uses. In the main Annihilation mini it has been shown that Rich is able to take off the uniform for significant amounts of time and still maintain his mental and physical stability (methinks the Worldmind made the suit as a placebo and Rich may not have actually needed it except when he tapped a greater amount of the Novaforce than he is accustomed to .... very crafty that Worldmind).

On the Marvel site I read that Rich has the greatest potential for control of the Novaforce ( in part or in full is an opoen question). This would include most ... if not all ... of the other known Centurians. Also according to the backstory, Rich has always had a direct link to the Worldmind. Until recently it was kept on a subconcious level. After the most recent destruction of Xandar (and the ony one that Rich has ever witnessed), the Worldmind contacted him directly and his mental link is no longer subconcious. Between his control potential and his direct link to the Worldmind, Rich has slowly been increasing in power since he initially received his powers from Rhoman Day. We don't know what his personal Novaforce potential is ... it may allow him to control a far greater portion of the energy than he has done up to even this point (if not the full thing).

Lastly, regardless of his potential, Rich has always put limits on his powers. Initally it has been suggested he does this because he has a rather low opinion of himslef. It took forever for him to be comfortable just being able to tap enough of the Novaforce to regularly use a Gravemetric pulse. During Larsen's run Rich was becoming uncomfortable with the amount of energy he was tapping and what it was doing to his powers. Larsen had Reed Richards temporarily reduce his ability to tap the Novaforce (a rather weak plot device in my opinion). Also remember that when the Worldmind initially proposed that the Novaforce and itself be downloaded into Rich, Nova himself declared how no one person could contain that much energy. He believed that then and probably still does. Thus he has and will continue to put limits on what he can do ... at least in the near future.

It bears noting that when the Worldmind agreed with Rich when he suggested that he keep it and the full Novaforce inside himself. It would not be in the best interests of the Worldmind to maintain itself and it's full power in Rich if it didn't believe him capable of handling the strain of both over an extended period of time.Time will tell though how long this lasts.

[NovaScifii]

Whoops .... double posted.

[XPac]

It bears noting that when the Worldmind agreed with Rich when he suggested that he keep it and the full Novaforce inside himself. It would not be in the best interests of the Worldmind to maintain itself and it's full power in Rich if it didn't believe him capable of handling the strain of both over an extended period of time.Time will tell though how long this lasts.

Yeah, but there's a difference between deciding that he should keep it long enough to handle Annihilus, and deciding to keep it indefinately.

In the short term, I'm sure he could handle it. In the short term, Jean Grey the first time she became Phoenix handled it just fine. But narratively speaking marvel loaded the gun by telling us that the power will have psychological philsiological effects if he keeps the power... sooner or later they're going to fire that gun.

[Satyrquaze]

Yeah, but there's a difference between deciding that he should keep it long enough to handle Annihilus, and deciding to keep it indefinately.

In the short term, I'm sure he could handle it. In the short term, Jean Grey the first time she became Phoenix handled it just fine. But narratively speaking marvel loaded the gun by telling us that the power will have psychological philsiological effects if he keeps the power... sooner or later they're going to fire that gun.

It'll be fun to watch him slowly go insane and then it'll be just like reading Peter David's run on Captain Marvel.

[Bobster777]

From the Annihilus fights, I would have to say he right below a herald of galactus. I think any herald would be able to defeat him.

[Nova3333]

You know its strangely coincidental that this thread has stated up; I've mentioned in to 40YearOldNova Fan/Deadpool that I'm currently in the very early stages of plotting a fan-fic/comic strip which oddly enough deals with this very issue. Just why Rich doesn't use the powers to full effect and is there a definitaive reason, not just the Garthan Saal scenario which by the way I 'd like to see develop in the new series just to see how Nova fans would react if he went from hero to anti-hero then went over the line in the realms of madness..Perhaps if anyone would like to have a look at my notes so far and see where i'm going (probably in the wrong direction..but its worth a crack trying to tie a few things in such as what really happened at Epyrus 7, why Rich won't use his full potential, etc. If interested PM me!