Something I've been wondering re: Batman's mentality

[sugarfiend]

Hi all! I'm a relative newbie to comic books, but one character that has always stuck with me was Batman (despite being scarred by the Burton movies as a kid, but that's another discussion entirely).

I've always wondered though, why is Bruce so angry and driven after the death of his parents? Yes, losing one's parents as a young child would scar anyone, but notwithstanding his wealth and resources, one would have to have a certifiably obsessive personality with the kind of mission that Bruce undertakes. We (unfortunately) hear about children having their parents murdered literally every day, but I would think that one would be more likely to turn to drugs/alcohol/"why poor me" therapy sessions than to declare a one-man war against crime. One reason why Bats moves me as a character so much is the fact that he devotes his life to the Batman mission, despite having all of the money in the world and everything at his disposal. (I mean, he certainly has the money to pay for booze/drugs/therapy session for life. ) Was it ever explained that there was something in Bruce's childhood to make him like this?

I'm sure that someone in DC's writing dept would have covered this already, but so far I haven't found anything. This has been on my mind for a little while, so I figured it would do me some good to talk about it with people who know a lot more than I do. ;)

[bw38]

it's because he's as crazy as the people he fights every day. :P

ok that's not really the reason although maybe it is, who knows.

[Mr Blinky]

My take on it is that Bruce's wealth actually worked against him.

Instead of being forced to deal with it, as any other kid would have been (taken into care by the authorities, given some kind of mandatory therapy), he had the resources to cloister himself away, obsessing about his loss and grief and rage.

He made Alfred his legal guardian, removing the need to interact with a normal family (though interestingly, he would later construct a bat-themed, spandex wearing family with which to surround himself) and used the Wayne fortune to circumvent a regular education, further distancing himself from his peers.

In short, his money damned him.

Wow, I feel a bit better about being poor now. :)

[Kara Zor El]

There are a few reasons. The big number one reason is that he is a fantastical comic strip character that doesn't fit into the real world that encapsulates you and I. another is that special factor thing that sometimes even happens in our world. The greatest example of this being The Beatles. What was the likelihood of four men being born in the same time and town getting together and the chemistry of this meeting producing a world wide phenomenon as well as incredible music etc? Magic happens here and in the DCU it is tenfold. Bruce Wayne is the product of many factors synchronizing on one man.
He is not mad or obsessed because he is of a world where everything is so much beyond our own. He is the product of right place right time versus inner potential.
But I'd also like to think that if his parents had not been murdered he would have still been a major player in the DCU and maybe still a hero.

[Darth Joker]

Bruce Wayne is a very moral, principled man.

He's also more than a bit of a control freak.

Drugs and alcohol - taken to a substantial degree - lowers the effectiveness of one's faculties, and hence erodes one's control over oneself. Counselling requires placing your emotional well-being under the supervision, and monitoring, of others - again, you have to allow others to have some control over you.

Batman wants to be in control. He wants to be a driving force, and have effective contingency plans in place for whatever may ever happen to him.

This is why he's had so few lasting romantic relationships - in a romance, you have to cede some degree of control to your partner, and Batman simply isn't willing to do that.

Batman never wants to be caught unawares - he never wants to suffer the fate of his parents.

[Mia]

I've always wondered though, why is Bruce so angry and driven after the death of his parents? Yes, losing one's parents as a young child would scar anyone, but notwithstanding his wealth and resources, one would have to have a certifiably obsessive personality with the kind of mission that Bruce undertakes. We (unfortunately) hear about children having their parents murdered literally every day, but I would think that one would be more likely to turn to drugs/alcohol/"why poor me" therapy sessions than to declare a one-man war against crime. One reason why Bats moves me as a character so much is the fact that he devotes his life to the Batman mission, despite having all of the money in the world and everything at his disposal. (I mean, he certainly has the money to pay for booze/drugs/therapy session for life. ) Was it ever explained that there was something in Bruce's childhood to make him like this?



You ask a very good question. And from my point of view it falls into two points.

The first reason is that, I think that it’s his own inner constitution that makes him such a fighter. For him to curl up in a ball and escape into a world of substance abuse and self pity is a …sign of weakness and defeat. It means that he has allowed his circumstances and life to defeat him. It would make him a quitter and looser, and I don’t think that’s something that a proud and arrogant man like Bruce could live with or accept.



The second reason I think is that I think that it’s his inherent duty to look after the weak and the down trodden. Bruce is an ‘old money’ aristocrat. And I understand that it was the function in the aristocrats to look after those who are less than fortunate. I think that Bruce feels that it is his duty to look after those who are less fortunate…and in a way that goes beyond simply writing a check. If you saw Batman Begins part of his motivations was live up to this fathers name and his Dad’s image.

[Mia]

Bruce Wayne is a very moral, principled man.

He's also more than a bit of a control freak.

Drugs and alcohol - taken to a substantial degree - lowers the effectiveness of one's faculties, and hence erodes one's control over oneself. Counselling requires placing your emotional well-being under the supervision, and monitoring, of others - again, you have to allow others to have some control over you.

Batman wants to be in control. He wants to be a driving force, and have effective contingency plans in place for whatever may ever happen to him.

This is why he's had so few lasting romantic relationships - in a romance, you have to cede some degree of control to your partner, and Batman simply isn't willing to do that.

Batman never wants to be caught unawares - he never wants to suffer the fate of his parents.

Quoted for truth. I agree.

[Darth Joker]

Quoted for truth. I agree.

Thanks. :)

It's also, for me, the *real* reason why Batman takes young wards under his care (and as 'Robins').

Batman knows that he has an age/celebrity/wealth-based control over his Robins. He can work with them, but still feel like he's in complete control of the crime-fighting partnership.

He knows he can't have that in most adult/adult crime-fighting partnerships.

This speaks to just how HUGELY respecting, and trusting, Batman is of Superman.

Batman actually cedes some limited control over to Superman (as the two work together frequently) - that's how much he trusts Clark Kent.

[Mia]

To tell you the truth. I think that you're the first poster that I have ever seen put forth that theory. That part--heck most of --what motivates Bruce/Batman is to never ever be a victim of life ever again. It's a view that I've held for years.

And I like your theory as to why he uses teenage kids as "Robins". Never thought about it that way before. Very insightful.

[IamtheRock3]

well Batman TRIED the regular route before with crime fighting

but found to much red tape and corruption. Also there were super heros in his world before him. He saw Alan Scot fight over Gotham. So maybe his idea didnt seem that crazy to him

[Darth Joker]

To tell you the truth. I think that you're the first poster that I have ever seen put forth that theory. That part--heck most of --what motivates Bruce/Batman is to never ever be a victim of life ever again. It's a view that I've held for years.

And I like your theory as to why he uses teenage kids as "Robins". Never thought about it that way before. Very insightful.

Thanks!

You made some great points in your initial reply as well.

[sugarfiend]

Hmmm, that's really interesting regarding the "control" bit, and Robin. I never really thought of it that way, but I can totally see it. It's almost like an eating disorder for Bruce - he feels as if he can't control anything that happens to him, so goddammit he's going make himself as disciplined as he possibly can. (From what I understand, since I've never had an eating disorder, people with anorexia feel as if they can't control any aspect of their lives, so they control how, what, and when they eat.)

The thing is, Bruce is an intelligent guy. Doesn't he see that he's really letting his childhood trauma do this to him? Or maybe he's one of those guys with an insanely high IQ but lacking in the EQ department...

Relationships with other people CAN mean giving some personal control to the other person, but it doesn't have to be. It does mean he has to open himself up to other people, which may feel unfamiliar and undisciplined to him.

Mr. Blinky also has a good point about the wealth. The rich can do whatever they want, so Bruce didn't have to attend school with other children if he didn't want to - he could hire private tutors, etc. etc.

[Darth Joker]

Hmmm, that's really interesting regarding the "control" bit, and Robin. I never really thought of it that way, but I can totally see it. It's almost like an eating disorder for Bruce - he feels as if he can't control anything that happens to him, so goddammit he's going make himself as disciplined as he possibly can. (From what I understand, since I've never had an eating disorder, people with anorexia feel as if they can't control any aspect of their lives, so they control how, what, and when they eat.)

The thing is, Bruce is an intelligent guy. Doesn't he see that he's really letting his childhood trauma do this to him? Or maybe he's one of those guys with an insanely high IQ but lacking in the EQ department...

Well, it's not *just* the control factor.

I think that Batman also has a bit of a martyr complex for the following reasons...

Let's face it, until he turned 8, he probably had quite the pampered existence as the only child of two very loving, filthy rich parents.

Then... his carefree, peaceful, wonderful, existence all comes to a screeching halt with the *shocking* death of his parents.

In a way, I think that Bruce's life pre-his parents death sets him up for it being more jarring than it would be for, say, a less well-off kid who's known some hardships in life even before his parents were killed.

It actually wouldn't shock me if Bruce went very emo for a while... maybe even Joker-like in his outlook on the world for a while.

Then, I think he made the following commitment - "My life is going to suck - other people won't see it since I'm rich, but I'll feel it deep down inside. Two people that I loved dearly were taken away from me. My carefree, wonderful childhood was taken from me. I'm rarely going to be truly happy again - but... BUT I can use what happened to me to stop it from happening to anybody else. I can sacrifice myself - since I've lost so much already - to doing everything in my power so there's never another Bruce Wayne who has to watch his parents die in a cold, callous world."

I actually think that when someone like Catwoman, or Wonder Woman (largely in animated Batman/Justice League), gets close to Batman, he thinks... "It feels good. Too good. It'll make me soft, and distract me from my 24/7 mission against crime, super-villians, and cosmic menaces. I can't have that."

[Pinnacle]

I don't know that there is much left to say after what has been some wonderful insight by you guys. I think that there is also a little bit of guilt going on as well. Bruce's sense of responsibility (or need to be in control) will never allow him to forgive himself that he should have done something even if he was just a kid (8-12, I'm not sure what the actual age was). Now, that he has the ablility to do something then the responsability factor will never allow him to let go.

[Gust]

I agree with the control issues that Bats exhibits and the responsibility factor. In fact I am not really sure his parents murders should have much to do with the character motivation nowadays. He got into crime fighting to avenge his parents but what kept him in crime fighting? It is more about duty and responsibility now than it is about avenging. There are lots of other heroes running around for their own, less clear cut, reasons but Batman always gets defined by his parents and his crusade to avenge them.

If Bruce had not lost his parents, I feel he would be a sort of hero anyway in the helping the populace, donating to charity, upstanding citizen type role. Maybe even donating to the Justice League and other hero organizations.

Further more, I can think several real life examples of people who went on a crusade and became heroes after their loved ones were killed. Most notably John Walsh from America's Most Wanted, read his story here:
http://www.amw.com/about_amw/john_walsh.cfm
He is not still avenging his son's death, he is helping others with the power he has gained.

[Mia]

Hmmm, that's really interesting regarding the "control" bit, and Robin. I never really thought of it that way, but I can totally see it. It's almost like an eating disorder for Bruce - he feels as if he can't control anything that happens to him, so goddammit he's going make himself as disciplined as he possibly can. (From what I understand, since I've never had an eating disorder, people with anorexia feel as if they can't control any aspect of their lives, so they control how, what, and when they eat.)

The thing is, Bruce is an intelligent guy. Doesn't he see that he's really letting his childhood trauma do this to him? Or maybe he's one of those guys with an insanely high IQ but lacking in the EQ department...






But he is allowing more than his childhood trauma to make him a disciplined person. It's allowing him to help others so that they don't suffer the same kind of fate that he has. In the graphic novel 'Batman: War On Crime'. Batman actually wonders if his parents death wasn't a twisted blessing in disguise. Because he thinks that if they had lived and he had grown up living an ideal childhood. It might have made him self-absorbed and selfish and he would have just turned into another rich greedy bastard who could care less about those around him.