Joss Whedon No Longer Attached to "Wonder Woman"

[Jonah Weiland]

CBR News learned Friday afternoon that writer/director Joss Whedon is no longer attached to the feature production of "Wonder Woman." CBR News spoke with Whedon for comment.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9546

[Jared]

"They just didn't like my take."

Does that mean it was full of one-liners involving amphibians and weather phenomena?

[malephoenix]

Well, I for one, am pretty disappointed. Wish Whedon was turning out more material for me to read/watch elsewhere if I won't even be able to see his WW.

[Donald M.]

Well, I for one, am pretty disappointed. Wish Whedon was turning out more material for me to read/watch elsewhere if I won't even be able to see his WW.

Well there's that movie Goners and the Buffy "Season 8" comic is starting up soon, right?

[marshal99]

Well , hopefully now that he isn't attached to wonder woman , he can do that TV specials followup from the Buffy/Angel series.
It's kind of ridiculous though , it takes 2-3 years for them to decide to ditch Wheldon ?!?
By the time the wonder woman movie gets made , it'll be 5 years from now.

[Black Atom]

What're the chances we'll get to read this script?

[berk]

I think it's great news. I'm much more interested in seeing Whedon do something of his own than seeing his take on an existing character. This Goners thing sounds pretty intriguing, and I hope he gets to make the film he's envisaging. And like everybody else I'd love to see some Buffy or Spike movies or tv shows or whatever. I never had much faith in a Wonder Woman movie really; it's too hard to find an actress who can look good in that costume but can still act and do the athletic stuff.

[StoneGold]

Does this mean Runaways will come out on time?

[JimmyDee]

While this is bad news for the production of a WONDER WOMAN film, it's great news for Whedon fans -- now we get to see him work on his own projects, where he'll truly pour his heart into it. I see this as a plus.

Our gain is their loss.

[mattx110]

i think maybe the studio going "you are making her a hip teenager right?" and then whedon going "Well, now i'm gonna do a coming of age story" mighta led to some things not working out completely.

whedon probably got a nice cashflow to put out his own stuff for a while so all will be well.

[Dr. Banner]

Fantastic news!

There's hope for the movie yet!!

[CaptainAwesome]

Too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing Wonder Woman talk like a teenage girl, just like all of Whedon's characters.

I kid, I kid...but seriously, this could either be good or bad. Lets wait to see who the new director is first.

[Dr. Banner]

^^^
It's definately good. Whedon's track record in the movie theatre, especially when he has MORE input into the project, isn't exactly something to brag about.

[malephoenix]

this could either be good or bad. Lets wait to see who the new director is first.

It's a triumvirate team up of epic proportions! Uwe Boll, Clint Eastwood, and Reggie Hudlin.


You.
Are.
Not.
Ready.

[the film freak]

I think it's great news. I'm much more interested in seeing Whedon do something of his own than seeing his take on an existing character. This Goners thing sounds pretty intriguing, and I hope he gets to make the film he's envisaging. And like everybody else I'd love to see some Buffy or Spike movies or tv shows or whatever. I never had much faith in a Wonder Woman movie really; it's too hard to find an actress who can look good in that costume but can still act and do the athletic stuff.

I'm kind of glad too for the same reason. I prefer Whedon doing his own stuff.

[Athena Bast]

I never had much faith in a Wonder Woman movie really; it's too hard to find an actress who can look good in that costume but can still act and do the athletic stuff.

Charisma Carpenter.:o

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Can't say I didn't see this coming. I was definitely getting the vibe that Whedon and the studio weren't seeing eye to eye on the property for a long time. Hopefully, whatever work Whedon was able to do intro cracking the difficult character will be put into whoever ends up making this film.

[kalorama]

This may shed a whole new light on Silver's recently announced acquisition of a WW spec script.

[Ontir]

I'm disappointed, but now wondering if Silver has Jennison & Strickland doing a re-write on their script, making it "today," instead of World War II. This is such a letdown.

[ForEverAncien]

Thus...the winds of fate has shifted.

[Halcyon]

Well there's now the chance I might see that film when it comes out now Whedon no longer has anything to do with it.

[PretenderNX01]

I'm not that familiar with Whedon's work so I don't know how this will affect the movie, but I must say how nice it is to see him acting positive and not "burning bridges" in anger. He was quite polite about the whole situation and I"m sure knows he made connections within the industry and keeping them is good for his future creator owned projects.

Obviously Whedon's fans will be disappointed with this latest news, as is Whedon. "It's disappointing, but you know, it's not my piece," said Whedon. "It's Wonder Woman. 'Goners' is the move that is more me than anything else and that's the movie that I really want to make. I really put my heart into 'Wonder Woman,' I loved what I did, but at the end of the day, I didn't create it, they own it, it's disappointing, but I get it. If we're not seeing the same movie, you have to walk away. It's as much a relief as it is a disappointment - probably for them, too."

But as of today, Whedon is no longer behind the project. CBR News asked Whedon why. "They just didn't like my take. It's pretty simple."

[Lanowar]

Well Wonder Woman is one third of the holy trinity of DC and having her some teenager like Whedon was going to must have spooked people. I knew I groaned because it would have just turned into buffy but wearing a different costume. Just have a modern take on Wonder Woman like Superman movies you'd think it would'nt be that hard.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

damn

Morena Baccarin would have been a hot wonder woman.

[Titan76]

Well its nice to know now where they are at with this Wonder Woman movie. Back at square One. Even though I think Whedon could have done a good job on this movie because he writes women really good I'm glad he just walk away rather then doing a movie he didn't want to do.

I also must say doing a teenage Wonder Woman is a stupid idea and I guess I'm one of the few who thinks they really should start the first film in WWII rather then the present day.

[Jim Hall]

Too bad. I was really looking forward to seeing Wonder Woman talk like a teenage girl, just like all of Whedon's characters.

I kid, I kid...but seriously, this could either be good or bad. Lets wait to see who the new director is first.

As someone who works with teenagers all day long (I'm a teacher), trust me, even Whedon's teenage girls don't sound like teenage girls. Real teenagers are nowhere near as witty and clever as Whedon makes them out to be. Beavis and Butthead are more accurate representations.

[Shellhead]

Charisma Carpenter.:o

I don't remember ever seeing her do any athletic-looking stunts. Heck, the cheerleaders on Friday Night Lights have done more risky stunts than Cordy ever did. And these days, she's a middle-aged mom.

[Valmore]

Oh good, then there's a chance this movie won't suck like everything else Joss Whedon has done.

[DonC]

Can't say I didn't see this coming. I was definitely getting the vibe that Whedon and the studio weren't seeing eye to eye on the property for a long time. Hopefully, whatever work Whedon was able to do intro cracking the difficult character will be put into whoever ends up making this film.

I never really thought about it, but I wasn't all that surprised either. This was taking way to long to get done. Something was up. Whedon had been righting the movie for what, two years?

[mattx110]

i thought whedon didn't want to make her a teenager until the studio went "that's why we hired you.. duh!"
idk, just an impression i picked up from thewhole thing. you'll have to ask the people involved.

[Ontir]

Well Wonder Woman is one third of the holy trinity of DC and having her some teenager like Whedon was going to must have spooked people. I knew I groaned because it would have just turned into buffy but wearing a different costume. Just have a modern take on Wonder Woman like Superman movies you'd think it would'nt be that hard.

He DID say twenties, NOT teens. She was going to be in the same time-frame, as the current Batman and Superman. The thing that would've been great about his writing of her, would be that she'd have a strong sense of purpose, and maybe the first real sense of direction, since Marston died.

[Nikita]

I bet he would have made an awesome Wonder Woman. This sucks. Now we have to wait for them to find someone else who will just be a "yes man" and do it the way they want anyway. Which could mean: crappy movie.

I give him kudos for sticking to his guns on his vision of WW. It's just too bad they wouldn't give him a chance to stick with it.

[hondobrode]

I'm surprised at the overall reaction of this board. I'm extremely disappointed. Hopefully the general theme of the character will carry over. From what he had said about the foundation of her character, I was greatly intrigued. Having her as a teenage Buffy-type doesn't interest me though, and I can take it or leave it as far as WWII. I'm really hoping it's a good reinterpretation of the character. She's THE main female icon, but her history is very inconsistent and it's hard to pin down extremely who, what and why she is. Here's hoping.

[The Zapper]

I'm VERY glad that Whedon is off the project, but it still doesn't mean it will be a good movie. Batman Begins was great, but Superman Returns was very mediocre. Hopefully who ever ends up in charge will do her justice.

[Athena Bast]

I don't remember ever seeing her do any athletic-looking stunts. Heck, the cheerleaders on Friday Night Lights have done more risky stunts than Cordy ever did. And these days, she's a middle-aged mom.

I don't think she's far from pulling it off and in Angel's 100 ep when she came back, she really had the feminine and the Don't think about messing with me 'tude.

That and I'd rather see a someone that looks like the can pull it off a fight than an overchoreographed dance routine.

[regnak]

IIRC there was a quote from a Wheldon interview shortly after he got the job. A quote that said he wasn't going to base WW on the comics or the TV series. At that point I thought 'Then wtf is he going to base it on?' Good riddance I say.

[Nate Grey]

damn

Morena Baccarin would have been a hot wonder woman.

How does Whedon being off the project mean she's still no longer an option? Wouldn't it mean she's MORE viable since he said he didn't want this movie to be an excuse to work with actors from his other series?

I never really thought about it, but I wasn't all that surprised either. This was taking way to long to get done. Something was up. Whedon had been righting the movie for what, two years?

My thought exactly. It looks like he was taking too long, and when he FINALLY submitted a script, they didn't like it, and instead of waiting ANOTHER two years for a rewrite they let him go. The purchasing of that other script, which probably won't even be used, is kinda smart, the way its explained. I don't think Joss is the sueing kind, but it still makes sense on WB's part.

I'm just wondering how long will it take NOW? 2009? 2010? I'm assuming it'll be either right before or right after the Superman Returns sequel.

[joesmallville]

Review of the Wonder Woman script, the WWII one that Warner Bros. just bought

http://www.latinoreview.com/scriptreview.php?id=48

[Magneto_X]

Can't believe it.

What's Silver thinking?

Whedon was the best thing to happen to the Wonder Woman movie in years.

[rednecko]

This probably means the whole picture is dead or they will go with Clint Eastwood as director. I was really looking forward to Josh Whedon doing the film.

[Magneto_X]

Hopefully DC gets him to write Wonder Woman in the comics. :D

[Jared]

Apparently, the WWII script is something they may have bought just to get off the market, or to use certain parts of it.

As for the never-ending casting question, check out the Wonder Woman skit with G4's Olivia Munn on Youtube. She would do. She would do nicely.

[Comixjunky]

JOSS WHEDON OFF 'WONDER WOMAN' FILM
'Buffy' and 'Firefly' creator no longer set to helm 'Wonder Woman' feature-length film

Posted February 3, 2007 11:45 AM

From whedonesque.com:

Joss will not be fighting for our rights after all.

You (hopefully) heard it here first: I'm no longer slated to make Wonder Woman. What? But how? My chest... so tight! Okay, stay calm and I'll explain as best I can. It's pretty complicated, so bear with me. I had a take on the film that, well, nobody liked. Hey, not that complicated.

Let me stress first that everybody at the studio and Silver Pictures were cool and professional. We just saw different movies, and at the price range this kind of movie hangs in, that's never gonna work. Non-sympatico. It happens all the time. I don't think any of us expected it to this time, but it did. Everybody knows how long I was taking, what a struggle that script was, and though I felt good about what I was coming up with, it was never gonna be a simple slam-dunk. I like to think it rolled around the rim a little bit, but others may have differing views.

The worst thing that can happen in this scenario is that the studio just keeps hammering out changes and the writer falls into a horrible limbo of development. These guys had the clarity and grace to skip that part. So I'm a free man.

Well, sorta. There is that "Goners" movie I can finally finish polishing, and plenty of other things in the hopper I've wanted to pursue. I'm as relieved as I am disappointed, and both of those things lead to drink, so that's a plus. Truly, you may be hearing some interesting things brewing in the coming months. But all potential jets therein will be visible.

But most importantly, I never have to answer THAT question again!!!! And you don't have to link to every rumor site! Finally and forever: I never had an actress picked out, or even a consistant front-runner. I didn't have time to waste on casting when I was so busy air-balling on the script. (No! Rim! There was rim!) That's the greatest relief of all. I can do interviews again!

Thanks for your time. You are the people who make the world go 'round. Or, no, science does that.

-j.

[Kara Zor El]

Wonder Woman is going to be a ridiculously hard movie to pull off.
I don't think Whedon would have made the movie that I am waiting/hoping for.
But who will?

[3D Master]

Thankfully! Now there's a chance for a good Wonder Woman movie!

[The Batman]

I dunno, Whedon and Wonder Woman always felt like an odd fit to me. I mean, yeah I know that Whedon's thing is strong female characters but I don't know that he'd be able to play the grandieur of Wonder Woman straight without making it all jokey and stuff.

Besides, with Whedon off of Wonder Woman now he can focus on Astonishing X-Men and getting that new Firefly project up and running.

[Shellhead]

Aside from Wonder Woman, I can only think of two extremely well-known comparable characters, who are strong, tough, female warriors that fight for good: Xena and Buffy. Joss Whedon was a smart pick to write Wonder Woman, although his style might not have been quite right for this project, depending on what the studio had in mind. If they get one of the Xena writers, this might still turn out good.

Otherwise, I give this the usual Hollywood odds of doing a good job with a comic book character, which is to say: not likely. Instead, we will probably get some halfway effort like Daredevil movie, or a misguided work by someone with talent, like the Hulk movie. Or worst of all, we might get some dismal result like the Superman fiasco. It is extremely likely that we won't even get a single classic Wonder Woman villain in this movie, given that she doesn't have as great a rogues gallery as Spider-man or Batman.

[kal_el21]

This movie will never get made. If does it will be a long ways off. I'd rather see them switch this to TV and make GL a movie franchise. I think GL Corps written as sci-fi franchise would be great.

[MikeK]

I'm a big fan of Joss and I'm actually kind of relieved with this news. WW is not going to translate well no matter who does it. I really don't see how it could be.

And I'd just like to point out that although Serenity "failed" at the box office in most certainly did not in DVD sales.

[David Atkins]

Aside from Wonder Woman, I can only think of two extremely well-known comparable characters, who are strong, tough, female warriors that fight for good: Xena and Buffy. Joss Whedon was a smart pick to write Wonder Woman, although his style might not have been quite right for this project, depending on what the studio had in mind. If they get one of the Xena writers, this might still turn out good.

Otherwise, I give this the usual Hollywood odds of doing a good job with a comic book character, which is to say: not likely. Instead, we will probably get some halfway effort like Daredevil movie, or a misguided work by someone with talent, like the Hulk movie. Or worst of all, we might get some dismal result like the Superman fiasco. It is extremely likely that we won't even get a single classic Wonder Woman villain in this movie, given that she doesn't have as great a rogues gallery as Spider-man or Batman.

So... the only person whom can write a good story about a 'strong, tough, female warrior' is a person whom has already written a 'good' story about a 'strong, tough, female warrior' ? Even if the character they've previously written was COMPLETELY different from the one in question (Wonder Woman) and nevermind the fact that these writers, themselves, had to get their start somewhere? Seriously, the only things these characters have in common is that all three of them have boobs and fight things.

I'm glad Joss Whedon is off the project. I am a fan of some of his work, but I never felt that he was a particularly good fit for Wonder Woman.

[Brady]

The Wonder Woman film is either going to be a massive flop, or completely unrecognisable as Wonder Woman, or both.

[stealthwise]

He wanted Cobie Smulders as WW?

Not that I don't like her on How I Met Your Mother, but this was casting according to physical type rather than (demonstrated) ability, so I'm a bit concerned about what kind of direction Whedon was going for, although it's probably a lot better than what we'll end up getting.

[Jack Zodiac]

Warner Bros. makes me sad. Not that Joss would've made a fantastic Wonder Woman movie, but between him leaving citing creative differences and Goyer off The Flash movie, now... I honestly wonder if they know what they want to make their comic movies like. "Batman Begins" was a surprising success after failure after failure, and "Superman Returns" was as hated as it was loved with fans, but then they churn out crapfests like "Catwoman" and expect people to take them seriously.

If they're shrugging off Whedon and Goyer because they think their visions for the franchises aren't classic enough for the characters, then good on 'em, but I seriously doubt it. Given their track record, I sincerely doubt WB can make more than one successful comic book movie per decade. Meanwhile, Marvel's pummeling the holy hell out of 'em in the market.

[IamtheRock3]

So... the only person whom can write a good story about a 'strong, tough, female warrior' is a person whom has already written a 'good' story about a 'strong, tough, female warrior' ? Even if the character they've previously written was COMPLETELY different from the one in question (Wonder Woman) and nevermind the fact that these writers, themselves, had to get their start somewhere? Seriously, the only things these characters have in common is that all three of them have boobs and fight things.

I'm glad Joss Whedon is off the project. I am a fan of some of his work, but I never felt that he was a particularly good fit for Wonder Woman.


Well he did write some pretty Amazon like chicks in

FIREFLY
and Angel

Firefly namely

[Ontir]

Comic books are at their best, when they've got inspired and visionary creative teams. In the case of Superman, Batman, Batman Begins, and Superman Returns, you had motivated directors who either had a hand in writing the story, or took hold of what they were given, and shaped it to their particular vision.

In the case of the long-struggling attempts at a Superman franchise, it was in the hands of someone who didn't know the comic, wasn't a director or a writer, and wanted to do something that was entirely contrary to the character he was charged with translating. Whedon, while not a Wondy fan, understands comics, and has written several good TV shows, and produced a very good film. His unique perspective would've given us something that was at least interesting, but unlike Singer, who came in with a roadmap, Whedon was crafting something to satisfy a producer who is neither a writer nor director. Perhaps that's the problem.

[Pinnacle]

I don't think that this is good news for the film prospects of Wonder Woman. Without a big name attached to it, this will be a tough film to get made due to the lack of interest in the character from the mainstream public. Still, I hope we get to see a decent film with good writing, directing, and acting at some point.

[Ontir]

Maybe they'll re-write the new script into the present, pay Angelina Jolie a butload of money, and knock it out of the park.

[kalorama]

Whoever makes Wonder Woman is going to have his/her hands full. She's far and away the least well regarded of the so-called "Big Three" (both inside and outside of fandom) with the lowest pop culture profile. Coming up with a version that's true to the character's roots, doesn't cause comics fans to hemorrage all over their Internet, connects with noncomics reading audiences, and draws in enough of the requisite young male action-movie fan audience will be a major undertaking.

[Ontir]

She's far and away the least well regarded of the so-called "Big Three"

TnA will go a long way, though!

[kalorama]

TnA will go a long way, though!

Don't do much for Catwoman, Elektra, Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life, Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, Bloodrayne...

[Ontir]

Wonder Woman had her own TV show, and if the actress looks half as good as Lynda Carter did, that'll at least open it.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Writers are not directors. That's a very important and necessary thing to learn.

[Ontir]

You mean like Woody Allen, or the Coen Brothers, Karen Moncreiff, Kevin Smith, John Cameron Mitchell, Peter Greenaway, or Paul Thomas Anderson, to name but a few?

[kalorama]

Wonder Woman had her own TV show...

So did Firefly/Serenity, The Hulk, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Car 54 Where Are you, Dragnet, My Favorite Martian, Lost in Space, Miami Vice, Wild, Wild West, McHale's Navy, Twin Peaks, The Beverly Hillbillies, The Honeymooners, Inspector Gadget, I Spy, The Mod Squad ...

...and if the actress looks half as good as Lynda Carter did, that'll at least open it.

Didn't do much for Catwoman, Elektra, Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life, Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, Bloodrayne...

[Ontir]

So did Firefly/Serenity, The Hulk, Rocky and Bullwinkle, Car 54 Where Are you, Dragnet, My Favorite Martian, lost in Space, Miami vice, Wild, Wild West...



Didn't do much for Catwoman, Elektra, Tomb Raider: Cradle of Life, Aeon Flux, Ultraviolet, Bloodrayne...

This will be better!

[kalorama]

This will be better!
Obviously you have no way of knowing that (esp. since, at this point, we have no idea who's even making the movie). But everything we do know, specifically the generally low succes rate of female led action flicks and films based on dimly (albeit fondly)-remembered TV shows, and the hit-or-miss nature of films based on comics books, suggests that Wonder Woman will have a pretty steep hill to climb.

[The Mirrorball Man]

You mean like Woody Allen, or the Coen Brothers, Karen Moncreiff, Kevin Smith, John Cameron Mitchell, Peter Greenaway, or Paul Thomas Anderson, to name but a few?

Did you just assume that I meant "writers can't direct, and directors can't write"? Because I believe that's not what I said.

[Sean Whitmore]

Coming up with a version that's true to the character's roots, doesn't cause comics fans to hemorrage all over their Internet, connects with noncomics reading audiences, and draws in enough of the requisite young male action-movie fan audience will be a major undertaking.

They may as well ignore that second concern, because it's gonna happen anyway, period, no matter what. There's never been a comic movie so good that there aren't some nerds out there who hate it.

The first is the real toughie, because I don't have any idea what Wonder Woman's roots are. Superman and Batman are incredibly easy to boil down, but WW, not so much (especially not from her god-bloody-awful Golden Age stories). Is she supposed to be preaching equality, preaching peace, or kicking ass? And whose ass should she be kicking? Nazis', super villains', or mythical monsters'? Should she have a secret identity or just be a fulltime ambassador? Should she fly or have an invisible plane? I honestly don't know what the "right" way of presenting her would be. I doubt even half the people in this thread could agree on it.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

The Wonder Woman film is either going to be a massive flop, or completely unrecognisable as Wonder Woman, or both.

So what you're saying is...a movie about a recognisable Wonder Woman will automatically flop. What, do you not like her or something?


SEAN

[marshal99]

Strange how the wheel turns considering in the past , initially Joss declined and it was Joel Silver persistance that got him to say yes.

http://superherohype.com/news/featuresnews.php?id=4543

Hopefully it will not be a stinker like Catwoman. God , that was bad.

[3D Master]

Aside from Wonder Woman, I can only think of two extremely well-known comparable characters, who are strong, tough, female warriors that fight for good: Xena and Buffy.

Oh, please, Buffy isn't tough or strong, except physically and that's because a demonic spirit resides within that gives her super strength and healing. Buffy's mostly a whiny kid, that's constantly complaining she's the chosen one, doesn't want to be, and oh, yeah, constantly walks into traps.

You want writers that write a fantastic, strong, and very female character, and show just how smart and strong she is (very much also because they don't reduce every male around her to bungling, weak, pathetic fool); get the creator of Veronica Mars. Rob Thomas would deliver an awesome Wonder Woman.

[IamtheRock3]

also dont think casting Wonder Woman thing as hard as people Say


Most of The Atheltic and tone body stuff can be done with 3 months training and in the Gym. If they can make the chick from Seventh Heaven looked Tough, they can make most actress look tough. Heck they made Kenua able to kick butt, and those Chicks from Kill Bill.


You need to be able to act but you dont need Oscar worthy Acting

She pretty known, and worst know charcter made cash


Need a Charcter that looks EXACTLY like Wonder Woman. Linda Carter didn't look like Wonder Woman. Heck Christopher Reeve wasn't really as Buff like Superman or Square Jawed. Least not like he was written at the time

they did good


Worried about internet. Listen they going to have people who HATE it and people who love it almost no matter what

[Ontir]

Did you just assume that I meant "writers can't direct, and directors can't write"? Because I believe that's not what I said.

It sounded like that was what you said, if it's not what you meant, that's cool.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

They should hire that director from DEBs so they can show Wonder Woman as the lesbian she is

[Ontir]

I've got it!

Quentin Tarantino!

Can't you just see him doing the Amazonian contest?

It would be wild!

[Magneto_X]

I'd rather see them switch this to TV and make GL a movie franchise. I think GL Corps written as sci-fi franchise would be great.

I'd prefer a GL Corps. trilogy or franchise of movies. They work on a scale bigger then what tv has to offer.

OTOH, a solo GL tv show *could* work. Either with Kyle Rayner or Hal Jordan.

[Magneto_X]

Writers are not directors. That's a very important and necessary thing to learn.

Writers can be.

Whedon is among the very few who can do both. And make quality product using both talents (see Buffy season 5 finale), too.

[Conn Seanery]

Let's keep this thread focused on Wonder Woman, folks. If you want to talk Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity, etc..., they all have their own threads somewhere. Or you can use this one (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=127378).

[GloryQuest]

Morena Baccarin would have been a hot wonder woman.
I agree! :) She has the exotic looks and acting skills. I think she would make a good Wonder Woman...with or without Whedon attached to the project.

[DDM]

IIRC there was a quote from a Wheldon interview shortly after he got the job. A quote that said he wasn't going to base WW on the comics or the TV series. At that point I thought 'Then wtf is he going to base it on?' Good riddance I say.

You would have gotten something similar to the Kathy-Lee Crosby Wonder Woman from the 70's: She had no Amazon ties & was basically a female Captain America.

[Ontir]

IIRC, she was unavailable awhile ago, due to commitments to Stargate, but with the delays in production, and the cancelation of the show, she might again be free. Whether or not she'd take the job now, is another question. I think if it were offered, and she called Whedon, he'd have to say "It's too great an opportunity, to turn down."

[The Mirrorball Man]

Writers can be.

Whedon is among the very few who can do both. And make quality product using both talents (see Buffy season 5 finale), too.

Writers can be, but I don't think Whedon is a very good director.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

The first is the real toughie, because I don't have any idea what Wonder Woman's roots are. Superman and Batman are incredibly easy to boil down, but WW, not so much

I think you've really nailed it here. Nobody, including all the various creators out there who've tried unsuccessfully to make her as a popular character again, have figured out exactly who Wonder Woman is and what she's about in a way that resonates with a large audience.

Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men have been successful properties across many different mediums and with many different audiences because they represent themes and ideas that large groups of people relate to. Everybody has felt like an outsider or prayed for a guardian angel or wanted revenge or felt persecuted for being different at some point in their lives.

What does Wonder Woman represent aside from 1940 feminism and kinky sexual innuendo? That's not exactly a stable foundation to base a multi-million dollar franchise on. As the numerous failed female action starring duds have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, hot chicks kicking ass aren't actually that big a draw unless it's made by Quentin Tarantino. Society is so over-saturated with sexual imagery these days that Linda Carter bouncing around in a skimpy costume isn't enough anymore.

I know Wonder Woman has her fans, but she's a step above Aquaman in the eyes of most people, even comics fans. She's known more as the butt of jokes than as a character people are interested about and want to see more of. Honestly, she might be more suited to a superhero farce than a serious take.

This isn't to say Wonder Woman can't be successful, but I have no idea how and dozens of creators far smarter and more talented than myself have already failed to do so.

[Sean Whitmore]

While it doesn't tackle the root problem, I think the easiest script treatment could be derived from adapting Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman run. It's full of elements that make a scriptwriter's job easier.

--A large human cast in the Embassy, with a conveniant excuse to introduce a new employee and explain everything to him (ala Hellboy).

--A minotaur chef to ease the audience into seeing the fantastic as commonplace.

--Something for Wonder Woman to be doing in between action scenes.

--A perfect excuse to fill in Wonder Woman's origin without actually showing it all (via an interview, press conference, embassy tour scene, whatever).

--A female version of Lex Luthor. Which, let's face it, if she didn't exist, is the kind of character Hollywood would probably create anyway.


SEAN

[kalorama]

They may as well ignore that second concern, because it's gonna happen anyway, period, no matter what. There's never been a comic movie so good that there aren't some nerds out there who hate it.

True enough. But there are degrees of spastic outrage.

I think drawing in the requisite young male audience will be the real challenge. In order for action movies (and and any of a long list of pop culture related products) to be financially viable in the market place, they need to attract a large enough percentage of that particular demographic (along with others) to drive the film's box office. Female-led action films have, generally, had a much harder time doing this than male-led ones. And it's not an issue of quality, because we all know that certain types of guys will turn out in droves for all kind of cinematic dreck if the body count is high enough. The real problem is that one of the things that drives male interest in action movies is the identification factor. They like seeing the hero kick ass and answer to no rules but his own because it allows them to live vicariously through them. They can't seem to have that same kind of experience if the one doing the ass-kicking is a woman. Female action heros have, in general, had a hard time overcoming this audience bias. I imagine that Wonder Woman would have an even harder time.

Of course, that's assuming that it actually ends up being an action movie.

[90'sCartoonMan]

What does Wonder Woman represent aside from 1940 feminism and kinky sexual innuendo? That's not exactly a stable foundation to base a multi-million dollar franchise on. As the numerous failed female action starring duds have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, hot chicks kicking ass aren't actually that big a draw unless it's made by Quentin Tarantino. Society is so over-saturated with sexual imagery these days that Linda Carter bouncing around in a skimpy costume isn't enough anymore.

Just because Wonder Woman's themes aren't as well defined as Superman or the X-Men doesn't mean she can't follow through with them. I think they could explore the ideas of peace and compassion very well with a Wonder Woman movie. She can be humanity's big sister that teaches a better way and leads by example.

I'd actually like to see Wonder Woman go against the trend of "hot chick kicking ass", it would make her stand out more. If the right person takes the character seriously, a Wonder Woman movie can have a theme just as strong as any other superhero picture.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think drawing in the requisite young maloe audience will be the real challenge. In order for action movies (and and any of a long list of pop culture related products) to be financially viable in the market place, they need to attract a large enough percentage of that particular demographic (along with others) to drive the film's box office. Female-led action films have, generally, had a much harder time doing this than male-led ones. And it's not an issue of quality, because we all know that certain types of guys will turn out in droves for all kind of cinematic dreck if the body count is high enough. The real problem is that one of the things that drives male interest in action movies is the identification factor. They like seeing the hero kick ass and answer to no rules but his own because it allows them to live vicariously through them. They can't seem to have that same kind of experience if the one doing the ass-kicking is a woman. Female action heros have, in general, had a hard time overcoming this audience bias. I imagine that Wonder Woman would have an even harder time.

Oh, absolutely. This movie has got a number of obstacles to overcome that have nothing to do with the quality of the movie itself.

I mean, even if the script and direction are briliant, that's not gonna get the 16-year-olds who thought Superman was "too gay" in the last movie to go see it.


SEAN

[Magneto_X]

While it doesn't tackle the root problem, I think the easiest script treatment could be derived from adapting Greg Rucka's Wonder Woman run. It's full of elements that make a scriptwriter's job easier.

--A large human cast in the Embassy, with a conveniant excuse to introduce a new employee and explain everything to him (ala Hellboy).

--A minotaur chef to ease the audience from into seeing the fantastic as commonplace.

--Something for Wonder Woman to be doing in between action scenes.

--A perfect excuse to fill in Wonder Woman's origin without actually showing it all (via an interview, press conference, embassy tour scene, whatever).

--A female version of Lex Luthor. Which, let's face it, if she didn't exist, is the kind of character Hollywood would probably create anyway.


SEAN

That would be perfect. But I'd like to see her fighting with Circe. Having a Lex Luthor duplicate (exspecially having versions showing up in the Superman/Fantastic Four/Spiderman movies) will be repetitive and they wouldn't be a truly physical threat to WW. While someone like Circe can be *both*.

[Sean Whitmore]

That would be perfect. But I'd like to see her fighting with Circe. Having a Lex Luthor duplicate (exspecially having versions showing up in the Superman/Fantastic Four/Spiderman movies) will be repetitive and they wouldn't be a truly physical threat to WW. While someone like Circe can be *both*.

Oh, I'd rather not see another evil executive either. But like you mentioned, it's a trend studios are comfortable with (add Daredevil, Constantine, and Catwoman to that list). :)

I could see them merging the Circe and Veronica Cale characters. In fact, Cameron's idea for Spider-Man was to merge Kingpin and Electro in much the same way.


SEAN

[kalorama]

Oh, I'd rather not see another evil executive either. But like you mentioned, it's a trend studios are comfortable with (add Daredevil, Constantine, and Catwoman to that list).

I don't think anyone wants them taking their cues from Daredevil or Catwoman.

[Magneto_X]

I could see them merging the Circe and Veronica Cale characters.

That's true. Circe could easily use multiple identities to spy and/or make trouble for WW. Shape-shifting can come in handy.

In fact, Cameron's idea for Spider-Man was to merge Kingpin and Electro in much the same way.


SEAN

I read that script and hated it. Cameron had no idea how Spiderman works.

[Royal]

http://www.comicsreporter.com/images/uploads/web-05.jpg

[Ontir]

I think you've really nailed it here. Nobody, including all the various creators out there who've tried unsuccessfully to make her as a popular character again, have figured out exactly who Wonder Woman is and what she's about in a way that resonates with a large audience.

Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men have been successful properties across many different mediums and with many different audiences because they represent themes and ideas that large groups of people relate to. Everybody has felt like an outsider or prayed for a guardian angel or wanted revenge or felt persecuted for being different at some point in their lives.

What does Wonder Woman represent aside from 1940 feminism and kinky sexual innuendo? That's not exactly a stable foundation to base a multi-million dollar franchise on. As the numerous failed female action starring duds have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, hot chicks kicking ass aren't actually that big a draw unless it's made by Quentin Tarantino. Society is so over-saturated with sexual imagery these days that Linda Carter bouncing around in a skimpy costume isn't enough anymore.

I know Wonder Woman has her fans, but she's a step above Aquaman in the eyes of most people, even comics fans. She's known more as the butt of jokes than as a character people are interested about and want to see more of. Honestly, she might be more suited to a superhero farce than a serious take.

This isn't to say Wonder Woman can't be successful, but I have no idea how and dozens of creators far smarter and more talented than myself have already failed to do so.

Superman is charged with a semi-holy mission.

Batman seeks to avenge.

Spider-Man is trying to atone.

Wonder Woman is... well a guy, the first one she's ever seen, crashed on her island, and she got all hot and bothered, but because of the whole enchantment thing, he can't stay there, so she disobeys her mother, and arranges everything so she can be the one to take him to the outside world. Not quite equal footing.

The thing that I really liked about the spec script, is that the Amazons have a reason to send someone to the outside world, beyond Steve Trevor's arrival. Diana has a purpose - the search or Pandora's Box - and that search can take as long as it needs to. In terms of a film set in WW II, it works well, because Hitler was fascinated with mystical things, which was exploited in Raiders of the Lost Ark, and works equally well here. All in all, it's very workable.

I think DC needs to find a way to make peace with Marston's sexual politics, because they are at the core of the character, and then merge them with modern feminism, if the character is really going to work. Pérez' ambassadorial schtick just never really worked.

[bw38]

I'm not sure I saw this anywhere else so I'm posting it here.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6332703.stm

Wonder Woman film director quits
Buffy the Vampire Slayer creator Joss Whedon has pulled out of directing a feature film about Wonder Woman.

"I had a take on the film that nobody liked," he told a fan website, saying he and the film's producer Joel Silver "just saw different movies".

"At the price range this kind of movie hangs in, that's never gonna work," the writer and director added.

Wonder Woman was created by DC Comics and adapted for a hit US TV show starring Lynda Carter in the 1970s.

Whedon, who also created the Buffy spin-off Angel and sci-fi TV series Firefly, had been linked to the project since March 2005.

"Everyone knows how long I was taking and what a struggle the script was," he said in a post on the Whedonesque website.

"Though I felt good about what I was coming up with, it was never gonna be a simple slam-dunk."

Whedon denied he ever had a specific actress in mind to play the film role.

"I never had an actress picked out, or even a consistent front-runner," he said.

When his involvement in the film was first announced, the 42-year-old described Wonder Woman as "the most iconic female heroine of our time".

Whedon said he would now focus on Goners, a thriller he is writing and directing for Universal Pictures.

[BYC]

DC should just skip it altogether, but they won't. I think they should consider making another TV series, as that's a good way of building up a cult following, as well as lots of licensing dollars. Get a pretty looking actress that has some range, and they can milk it a la Buffy/Xena and the like for a good 5 years. Younger actresses would jump at a chance for such exposure, even if it typecast them into Wonder Woman.

And if it's bad, they can cancel the TV show quickly. The budget would be a big problem though in terms of good special effects with the lasso and the more flashy effects.

When a movie bombs, much more money are lost, not to mention any superhero film requires lots of action. Wonder Woman's mission of peace side wouldn't get explored much.

[Ontir]

You're days and days late!

There are about 3 threads. There on the TV/Film board, where this one will end up, as soon as a mod moves it.

[BYC]

I posted this in another Wonder Woman thread, this is the repost.

"DC should just skip it altogether, but they won't. I think they should consider making another TV series, as that's a good way of building up a cult following, as well as lots of licensing dollars. Get a pretty looking actress that has some range, and they can milk it a la Buffy/Xena and the like for a good 5 years. Younger actresses would jump at a chance for such exposure, even if it typecast them into Wonder Woman.

And if it's bad, they can cancel the TV show quickly. The budget would be a big problem though in terms of good special effects with the lasso and the more flashy effects.

When a movie bombs, much more money are lost, not to mention any superhero film requires lots of action. Wonder Woman's mission of peace side wouldn't get explored much"

[BYC]

I think you've really nailed it here. Nobody, including all the various creators out there who've tried unsuccessfully to make her as a popular character again, have figured out exactly who Wonder Woman is and what she's about in a way that resonates with a large audience.

Superman, Batman, Spider-Man and X-Men have been successful properties across many different mediums and with many different audiences because they represent themes and ideas that large groups of people relate to. Everybody has felt like an outsider or prayed for a guardian angel or wanted revenge or felt persecuted for being different at some point in their lives.

What does Wonder Woman represent aside from 1940 feminism and kinky sexual innuendo? That's not exactly a stable foundation to base a multi-million dollar franchise on. As the numerous failed female action starring duds have proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, hot chicks kicking ass aren't actually that big a draw unless it's made by Quentin Tarantino. Society is so over-saturated with sexual imagery these days that Linda Carter bouncing around in a skimpy costume isn't enough anymore.

I know Wonder Woman has her fans, but she's a step above Aquaman in the eyes of most people, even comics fans. She's known more as the butt of jokes than as a character people are interested about and want to see more of. Honestly, she might be more suited to a superhero farce than a serious take.

This isn't to say Wonder Woman can't be successful, but I have no idea how and dozens of creators far smarter and more talented than myself have already failed to do so.
http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=157735

I commented in that thread that even fans aren't really even close to agreeing what Wonder Woman stands for. A movie is gonna be a mess if they green light it.

I'm wondering if DC should consider going with an animated Wonder Woman movie done with the JLU's team as a test platform. Make it just about her, and some of her villains. No Superman, no Batman, no JLA to boost the star power. If the sales are promising, they should do a live-action, if not, maybe a TV series or drop it altogether.

[kalorama]

Apples and oranges. The general audience for an animated film is not the same as a big budget live action movie (although there is overlap), so the success of one hardly predicates the success of the other. Same with a TV show.

[cactusmaac]

It has to be admitted that WW's backstory is kind of freaky and hard to take seriously outside of comic books. She comes from an island of immortal female warriors who have outlawed men and arrives in our world to spread the message of peace and compassion. I can understand an alien flying around shooting lasers out of his eyes, a billionairre dressing up as a mammal and a nerd outcast being a crimefighter, but her origin I don't.

Still it should be possible to craft a decent movie simply by using it as a mythology-based, global action-piece set in the modern world. Why they'd want to set it in the 40s is beyond me. It's not like the Shadow, the Phantom or the Rocketeer were big hits.

[SnowTrooper]

I didnt think there should be a Wonder Woman movie to begin with. As popular as the character is I dont think WW could be in a successful movie on her own. Im sure the character would be great in an ensemble cast like a Justic League movie but on her own I dont know.

Most comic book movies with women as the lead character have been pretty bad anyway(Elektra, Catwoman, etc..).

[hoffmandu]

Well, this project is dead to me now. And Flash too. Two Hollywoodized Superhero flicks coming right up .............to tank. I swear, it's like a value meal for 'em. Bastards. Not that either property was awesome or anything, but it could have been memorable.

[Black Atom]

I agree with what others have said. WW needs to be boiled down to a real simple concept that people can easily relate to. I think the problem is that Diana, in concept, is more complicated than her male counterparts (like most women!).

My take on a WW movie is to borrow (steal) from the folks who do the best Princess movies in the business. Diana's the youngest Amazon. A princess in paradise. Yet she's unhappy and frustrated. She's tired of being sheltered and over-protected; the kid sister of everyone on the island. She's curious about men. She's curious about man's world. She's curious about love, evil, justice. I think we've all felt that way at some time in our lives. I think this is something the old TV show got right, actually. Establish who she is first and what she is second. If you start the movie off with Diana as a mystical feminist zealot, babbling about her mission, we aren't going to care. If anything, we're going to be put off by her. She's a girl on the verge of womanhood who has signed up for this huge responsibility that maybe she didn't completely understand just so she could spread her own wings.

[Magneto_X]

Black Atom:

I thought that was the direction Whedon was going for.

[Black Atom]

Black Atom:

I thought that was the direction Whedon was going for.

There's one thing he forgot: A loveable talking minotaur.

[Nate Grey]

Erm, I'm not sure if quit is the right word. Sounds like they went in another direction without him after he turned in the script, and then bought another script to sort of freeze him out in case of litagation on his part. Its not so much as quitting as finding out you no longer have a job.

[mathew101281]

I agree with what others have said. WW needs to be boiled down to a real simple concept that people can easily relate to. I think the problem is that Diana, in concept, is more complicated than her male counterparts (like most women!).



Don't confuse needless added on details with complicated

[kalorama]

Still it should be possible to craft a decent movie simply by using it as a mythology-based, global action-piece set in the modern world.

That's how I see it. HEavy on the mythological subtext (although not quite Xena heavy). At once have her larger than life but at the same time learning what it means to live in the normal human world.

[Ontir]

There's one thing he forgot: A loveable talking minotaur.

I HATE the Minotaur!

The problem, aside from Wonder Woman looking increasingly like "Promethea," is that if she's from an entirely mythological world, she enters our world like an infant, lost. If the Amazons have advanced, and are somewhat ahead of us, she'll be able to recognize and adapt to our world. Also, the more mythological stuff you pile on, the more expensive the movie gets. The more "real world," the less expensive. Aside from some brief appearances by the Gods, the mythology should be Diana's religion, and not much else, as it was in the original comic.

[Black Atom]

Don't confuse needless added on details with complicated

Are we talking about Wonder Woman or all women?

I do think the mythos needs to be pared down quite a bit.

[Black Atom]

I HATE the Minotaur!

The problem, aside from Wonder Woman looking increasingly like "Promethea," is that if she's from an entirely mythological world, she enters our world like an infant, lost. If the Amazons have advanced, and are somewhat ahead of us, she'll be able to recognize and adapt to our world. Also, the more mythological stuff you pile on, the more expensive the movie gets. The more "real world," the less expensive. Aside from some brief appearances by the Gods, the mythology should be Diana's religion, and not much else, as it was in the original comic.

I wouldn't even have the Gods in it, myself. Mostly because, again, that's something I can't relate to. I like that she believes in them and she believes they have given her a mission...we all have some level of faith, even if it's not in a supreme being, per se...but to have her sitting there conferring back and forth with actual gods and stuff...eh, the idea's always rubbed me the wrong way. If you never show them that gives us a chance to explore her beliefs. She's suddenly in a place where NO ONE believes in her gods--maybe she questions her faith a bit.

I'd like to see Circe as a villain though, doing all kinds of cool mystical stuff. I wouldn't even mind her summoning up some monsters like Medusa or a Cyclops.

[Ontir]

I would have them in, because they're a part of the story. I'd do it the way Harryhausen did it in Clash of the Titans. They'd be major stunt-casting who were a part of the origin, and then one or two would talk to the Amazons via statues. I might have Aphrodite appear to her, sort of like Jor-el's ever-presence in the Superman films.

[Conn Seanery]

Reminder: This is a Wonder Woman thread, folks. If you want to talk Buffy, Angel, Firefly, Serenity, etc... use this one (http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=127378).

[IamtheRock3]

This will be better!


Well in fairness the movies mention werent MASTPEICES when it came to writing

I mean Aeon Flux, and Ultraviolet didnt fail cause of female leads, or its Comic nature. It failed cause it sucked HARD

Really Catwoman could of made money if they stuck to basicly a little more. That outfit Halle had on during the bank robber, that would be the catwoman suit to me, with some minor mods

And the firs tomb raider did make cash

[Ontir]

I actually liked Aeon Flux.

The real problem with Ultraviolet was the paper-thin story, and less than stellar direction. That guy's got an amazing eye, but no real ear for story.

[IamtheRock3]

Also about Non women heroe making movies

most of the one that failed kind of sucked. What good QUALITY ones failed, answer that and then you have a debate

Granted there a lot of male sucky movies that do well, there also a A LOT of sucky ones that fail due to the sheer amount of it suckiness. It just that there much more male hero charcters then female so you can pick out successes


Wonder Woman aint a complicated concept. Chick from an Amazon world A utopia, see the promblems and injustices in the male world and feels she can sit idly by an watch anymore

Compare it To American ignoring genocides in 3rd world countries if you want to get politcal

But basicly a Fish out of water


The promblem is DC force the iconic thing about her. Where they want to make her AS popular as Batman and Superman. She can be popular but dont know if she going to get at that level, never going to happen.

[IamtheRock3]

I actually liked Aeon Flux.

The real problem with Ultraviolet was the paper-thin story, and less than stellar direction. That guy's got an amazing eye, but no real ear for story.



To me if You took Aeon Flux storytelling, and Actress

Then gave it ultraviolet STYLE when it came to action..then you have a good movie

cause really Aeon Flux was known for her wild stunts and weirdness in the cartoons

[Ontir]

The thing about Wimmer, is that he's always got some interesting ideas, I mean really compelling ideas, that get lost in less than stellar stories. I still love the Gun Kata, and the flat-storage/tessaracting stuff, which made Ultraviolet, despite it's many, obvious flaws, quite compelling and fun to watch.

[Black Atom]

I would have them in, because they're a part of the story. I'd do it the way Harryhausen did it in Clash of the Titans. They'd be major stunt-casting who were a part of the origin, and then one or two would talk to the Amazons via statues. I might have Aphrodite appear to her, sort of like Jor-el's ever-presence in the Superman films.

I'd mention them and their role in Diana's creation but I don't think I'd have them physically appear. If anything, they'd be disembodied voices, maybe delivering a preface a la Galadriel in LOTR.

[xsyphon]

Question to everyone on this forum. Should WW be able to fly in this movie or should she be grounded?

[Ontir]

Whedon, like myself, was against her flying. The new script SEEMS to pave the way to the invisible plane, which is far more cost affective than a flying rig. Given the already numerous problems, I'm thinking flying is, as it should be, out.

[Black Atom]

I tend to waffle back and forth on the issue myself. WW's been flying since I've been reading comics, really but I'm okay with her being grounded, too. I've never really understood the invisible jet, though. It's seems a lot more out of place in her mythos than the star-spangled underwear people always bitch about. How does an invisible jet jive with the whole Greek mythology theme? I don't get it.

[Ontir]

Except the plane wasn't out of synch with the original origin. Those Amazons had spent the last 3,000 years studying everything, and were technologically advanced, sort of like the Asgard of Thor. The advancement of the Amazons also suggested to Steve Trevor, that perhaps these women knew something that the rest of the world didn't, and might have made him more willing to hear her out, than he might've been with a woman from America in that time.

In terms of modern continuity, if the Amazons have an invisible or stealth plane, it stands to reason that they've got more than one, and that perhaps they aren't so isolated and out of touch, as we might have assumed, which makes them all the more interesting.

In terms of the star-spangled shorts, they are, because they are white stars on blue, and American icon, and nothing else. Wonder Woman isn't an American, and the inclusion of this icon, into her wardrobe, is misplaced, and has an affect of making her look out of date.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'm not a fan of the plane. Wonder Woman's powers definitely need to be a little flashier than "above average strength".

However, being able to make an invisible plane toy may be too tempting for Warner Bros. to pass up.

These are the people who gave the Superman toy a mororcycle, after all.


SEAN

[Black Atom]

I get all that, but it's still never worked for me thematically. Cool vehicles and gadgetry were always kinda Batman's thing. The invisible plane just seemed like a device they gave WW to get around in because she couldn't fly.

I don't want to get the flag panties debate up and going again but suffice to say, it's never really bothered me.

[kalorama]

Also about Non women heroe making movies

most of the one that failed kind of sucked. What good QUALITY ones failed, answer that and then you have a debate

Granted there a lot of male sucky movies that do well, there also a A LOT of sucky ones that fail due to the sheer amount of it suckiness. It just that there much more male hero charcters then female so you can pick out successes

I think you missed the point.

I observed that female-led action movies had a tough time drawing in the requisite male audience and that WW would likely have a tougher time than most. Ontir offerd up the opinions that "TnA will go a long way, though!" and "if the actress looks half as good as Lynda Carter did, that'll at least open it" which implies that despite what other obstacles the film had, if the actress was hot and showed enough flesh it still had a shot. I mentioned those other films precisely because many of them were bad/failed and the fact that the lead actress in each didn't do enough (or anything, really) to overcome that. Point being, it doesn't matter how hot the actress is, the margin for error is damn small and if the thing isn't just right, it'll have a very steep climb.

That being said, I thought Elektra was okay. Certainly as good as some of the substance free body count fests with male leads that make money.

And, to speak to the larger point, the fact that the vast majority of the recent examples of female-led action flicks are so underwhelming points to yet another apparent obstacle for Wonder Woman. Namely the fact that simply making a quality, big budget female actioner seems to be beyond Hollywood's grasp, thus making WW's odds of bucking the trend even longer.

[IamtheRock3]

I think you missed the point.

I observed that female-led action movies had a tough time drawing in the requisite male audience and that WW would likely have a tougher time than most. Ontir offerd up the opinions that "TnA will go a long way, though!" and "if the actress looks half as good as Lynda Carter did, that'll at least open it" which implies that despite what other obstacles the film had, if the actress was hot and showed enough flesh it still had a shot. I mentioned those other films precisely because many of them were bad/failed and the fact that the lead actress in each didn't do enough (or anything, really) to overcome that. Point being, it doesn't matter how hot the actress is, the margin for error is damn small and if the thing isn't just right, it'll have a very steep climb.

That being said, I thought Elektra was okay. Certainly as good as some of the substance free body count fests with male leads that make money.

And, to speak to the larger point, the fact that the vast majority of the recent examples of female-led action flicks are so underwhelming points to yet another apparent obstacle for Wonder Woman. Namely the fact that simply making a quality, big budget female actioner seems to be beyond Hollywood's grasp, thus making WW's odds of bucking the trend even longer.


Elekctra was good for the first hour before it became GOLDEN CHILD 2. Also Daredevil was critcal pan by the fans.

While having a Actress that look halfway decent doesnt Guratee Sucess...I do think it goes a long way in HELPING it lead to sucess. Namely having someone that looks like the charcter somewhat. Nobody saying you can take the worst movie in the world and put some Boobs it will break box office records. But it will help make more cash they maybe it it would without it.

Some female ACTION movies that made bits of Cash, some which are recent

both Underworlds movies made money
Kill Bill made money. Chick action film
All Aliens films made money
Both Resident Evil movies made money
First tomb raider made cash


The ones that I think didn't is the ones I think suck. So maybe we just have differnt opinions on those movies


So the only way your argument works if you can find a

Female lead movie that was VERY GOOD but failed

[kalorama]

It's obvious that you don't actually understand the point I was making, but that's fine. I'm really disinclined at this point to try and explain it again. Either you get it or you don't. You don't. Oh well. Moving on.

As for the other issues you raise:

(1) The last two Alien films did relatively poorly at the box office (you'll note in my previous post the use of the word "recent.") (2) The only films at that list that come anywhere near being VERY GOOD were the Kill Bills. The rest were ok but fun (Underworld) to mindless dreck (Resident Evil).

At the end of the day the number of flops and crap far outstrip the successes, both commercially and qualitatively, further underscoring my point about the inherent difficulty Hollywood has with crafting good successful female-led actioners.

[Magneto_X]

Question to everyone on this forum. Should WW be able to fly in this movie or should she be grounded?

I'd like her to fly.

Keep her as a Superman class heavy hitter, not a street leveler.

[IamtheRock3]

It's obvious that you don't actually understand the point I was making, but that's fine. I'm really disinclined at this point to try and explain it again. Either you get it or you don't. You don't. Oh well. Moving on.

As for the other issues you raise:

(1) The last two Alien films did relatively poorly at the box office (you'll note in my previous post the use of the word "recent.") (2) The only films at that list that come anywhere near being VERY GOOD were the Kill Bills. The rest were ok but fun (Underworld) to mindless dreck (Resident Evil).

At the end of the day the number of flops and crap far outstrip the successes, both commercially and qualitatively, further underscoring my point about the inherent difficulty Hollywood has with crafting good successful female-led actioners.


Same can be said about most action movies in General. Most stuff are crap


Aliens 3 did pretty good actully. Resurection made a nice profit


Name some that were just above Aveage that failed


sure there more male action movies that do well...but there more male action movies

I get your point. But in order for you Hypthosis to work and be realavent

You have to compare Terrible Female lead actions movies to Terrible male actions movies

And

above Aveage Female actions movie to above aveage male action movies

and see how both sets do

[IamtheRock3]

oh

underworld
and Resident Evil may of been Dreck but it made a good amount of cash and does have it fans

[davids]

Big fight, Toyman's robot shoots his weapon at wonder woman...Superman flies to intercept the beam and is gone. every one thinks he is dead, Diana goes all PMS on toy man.

First smashers his giant robot, then picks him up by the shirt and pulls back her fist.

Toynan, "What are you going to do?"
Wonder Woman, "I'm going to punch a hole in your head!"

Flash stops her by taking hold of he arm and telling her, "We dont do that!"

Diana,"Speak for yourself....I do!"

That is the Wonder Woman the movie needs!

[kalorama]

I get your point.

Clearly you don't. Let's just leave it at that, shall we?

[IamtheRock3]

Clearly you don't. Let's just leave it at that, shall we?

What Ever man.