Storm versus Clor, who will win?

[Blackcat]

It's no secret that Storm and 'Clor' will battle eachother in the last Civil War part of Black Panther.

Storm lost a battle with the real Thor in Marvel Fanfare a long way back. In the meantime she became much stronger, close to an Omega status and this is a clone of Thor, but does that give her a bigger change of winning?

Who do you think will win and why???

[Magneto Rocks]

Clor should win by all rights.

Therefore Storm will win, since it's Hudlin.

[Rf2j]

Well, since Strom is alive and well in the beginning of CW final fight, isn't this kind of dumb question? I really don't believe they bother fighting after the war... ;)

[Thursaiz]

Hard to say. If he hasn't had training, he will be fighting wildly like he did in Civil War #4. That won't work against Storm. Also, if he can't control weather elements and such like the original then he will be no match for her. One lightning bolt, fight is over.

[kane]

Is it not something for the rumbles? However, Clor should win. Her lightning is not strong enough to hut him and Thors control over the weather was always more powerfull than hers.

But still in the comics she may win, with massive pis and cis.

[Karthak]

Clor is just a mindless cyborg clone. He doesn't stand a chance.

[Starscream]

Is it not something for the rumbles? However, Clor should win. Her lightning is not strong enough to hut him and Thors control over the weather was always more powerfull than hers.

But still in the comics she may win, with massive pis and cis.

but he aint the real Thor hes a clone.
Thors lightning maybe stronger enough then Storms but this aint Thor.

yes Clor shot lightning at Goliath and killed him.
But was this lightning created by the weather (wich was controlled by Clor) or simply by the special hammer Richards created for clor.

So i dont rly see any proof that Clor can control the weather.
The lightning could be created by the hammer and the bad weather at the scene (when goliath got killed) could have been created by some kind of device.

Anyway Storms controll over the weather goes beyond just creating a lightning storm.
My guess is shel destroy Clors hammer and will torch the fecker.

[Xanrn]

My bet the battle is a stalemate.

It takes place before the Cliffhanger of CW6, so we know Storm is fine.

Clor is not just a throw away clone for Civil War according to Quesada or Miller.

[DoctorDoom]

Clor should win by all rights.

Therefore Storm will win, since it's Hudlin.
Damn you for making (non)sense in regards to Hudlin!
and damn you for making me agree with it!

[Magneto Rocks]

Damn you for making (non)sense in regards to Hudlin!
and damn you for making me agree with it!

We megalomaniacal super-villains need to stick together!

[carabas]

Who will win? Storm, or this brandnew character which we know next to nothing about except that he has Thor-like powers but is probably not as powerful.

Hudlin is writing. It doesn't realy matter whether she's fighting Clor, Thor, Fing Fang Foom, or Galactus; Storm wins, but probably not without having Black Panther saving her first.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Clor should win by all rights.

Therefore Storm will win, since it's Hudlin.

You are officially my hero.

[Magneto Rocks]

Well with TWD and DoctorDoom, I guess that means that We Three Doom Fans are all in agreement on this one. Perhaps it's because of what Hudlin did to Vic, perhaps co-incadence.

Anyway, the problem is that we already know BOTH survive.

Although if Clor wigs out on his programming again, it really does hammer further home a 27th time that Clor is a bad idea. By any stretch of imagination.

[Kirk G]

I feel quite certain that Ororo, as a continuing character and heroine, will have to survive...or win.
Clor, as an abomination, and NOT a real hero, is destined to loose... or be destroyed...
HOWEVER, given the unusual shout that occurred in the 24th issue of Black Panther Clor is lying on the operating gurney as Reed and another doctor walk away... musing over how successful they think they may have been... the other surgeon says, "I mean, what have you done, cloned a Norse God? I mean, he's a Myth isn't he??" When CLOR turns his head and SHOUTS "I AM NO MYTH!"... and the doctor stops dead in his tracks, and Reed just smirks.
I take from this that it might REALLY be the spirit of Thor inhabiting the body of the clone now...and as a result, it might REALLY be the return of Thor now... and if that's the case, I think Ororo may go down until T'challa leads the charge to save her.

Also, I suspect that Clor may change sides, if it is really Thor who is inside him! Wouldn't that just be a kick in the head for ol' Tony and Reed!

[the Dagman]

There is one big thing everyone forgets about Thor. One thing that Clor does not have. Mjolnir is what Thor uses to control the weather. He taps the handle of Mjolnir on the ground twice quickly, like we double-click a mouse button, to start a weather event or to stop an ongoing one. After he starts the weather going he can will lightning to be channeled through Mjolnir, spin it for typhoon effect, etc. He is able to control the weather because of the enchantments Odin placed on Mjolnir at it's creation in the uru forge.

Without Mjolnir, Clor cannot control the weather. To simulate that power, Reed and Tony (the most likely creators of FauxMjolnir) embedded circuitry capable of generating a high powered arc of electricity simulating Thor's lightning. The casing of FauxMjolnir is most likely adamantium, making it able to withstand the arcs it generates as well as Clor using it as an actual hammer.

Storm, on the other hand, mentally controls the weather without the need of an enchanted focus like Mjolnir. And she has been shown to be able to physically channel lightning bolts easily as powerful as the electrical arcs created by FauxMjolnir.

So in a battle of Storm vs. Clor w/FauxMjolnir, the real weather controller of the two wins. Storm.

Now if Clor had and could lift and use the real Mjolnir it would be a very different story.

[LordAllMighty]

LOL, so she can't beat him with her powers alone, it has to be some outside force to give her the win?

Even though, this is not the real Thor.:confused: I guess all that time Storm fought against super-powered being is just meaningless to some of you.

[Pike]

There is one big thing everyone forgets about Thor. One thing that Clor does not have. Mjolnir is what Thor uses to control the weather. He taps the handle of Mjolnir on the ground twice quickly, like we double-click a mouse button, to start a weather event or to stop an ongoing one. After he starts the weather going he can will lightning to be channeled through Mjolnir, spin it for typhoon effect, etc. He is able to control the weather because of the enchantments Odin placed on Mjolnir at it's creation in the uru forge.
.

Wrong.

Thor can control the weather without Mjolnir. With Mjolnir he controls the weather on a scale that Storm simply cannot comprehend, on an actual global scale.

Everything else you said about Clor is entirely accurate.

[LordAllMighty]

Thor can control the weather without Mjolnir. With Mjolnir he controls the weather on a scale that Storm simply cannot comprehend, on an actual global scale.

I've often wonder just how powerful Thor was without Mjolnir increasing his natural weather abilities.

Would his unenhanced power equal or still surpass those of Storm.

[Shyft]

does Clor have any mechanical components? Because if he does, surely one well placed thunderbolt is going to fry some circuits or something.

[the Dagman]

Wrong.

Thor can control the weather without Mjolnir. With Mjolnir he controls the weather on a scale that Storm simply cannot comprehend, on an actual global scale.

Everything else you said about Clor is entirely accurate.

Actually you are wrong. Below is taken from the Wikipedia entry on his powers:

"In addition, Thor is a superb hand-to-hand combatant and has mastered a number of weapons such as the war hammer, sword, and mace. Thor is also very cunning and intuitive in battle, with many centuries of experience. Thor possesses two items that assist him in combat: the Belt of Strength and his mystical hammer Mjolnir. The first item doubles Thor's strength, [12] while the second is used for flight; weather control; energy projection; dimensional control; matter manipulation and the most powerful of Thor's offensives, the God Blast [13] and the Anti-Force. [14] Thor also possesses a pair of gauntlets which enable him to wield Mjolnir when using these latter offensives."

Now true, he did exhibit more powers once he took over the throne of Asgard and did not need Mjolnir to control the weather. But that is because he gained the Odinpower, the power that enchanted Mjolnir to begin with. Clor does not have this power. And without that power Thor controls the weather in exactly the manner I stated.

Perhaps you'd like more evidence supporting my argument? Try this:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/t/thor.htm

Or perhaps Marvel's own official bio?

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thor_%28Thor_Odinson%29

Please try to support your argument when you believe someone to be wrong. It is the proper way to debate. To just state someone to be wrong without supporting your argument is insulting.

[Yaw]

Storm should win.

1. Much of Thor's powers reside in the Mjlonir and Clor has a techno-copy.

2. Clor was shown with a needle driven through his head which we have to assume penetrated the skull because Mr. Fantastic was making adjustments to his mind. Real Thor's skin can be penetrated but not his skull. THerefore this signals the clone is obviously weaker than the real thing.

3. It has been written that Clor's hammer given him his powers. We saw him manipulating electricity only through his hammer. Being that his hammer is a human-made invention, the advanced technology of Wakanda could probably figure a way to disarm him or sabotage the hammer itself.

[Citizen V]

Its been said that fake Thor`s hammer is not the enchanted Asgardian metal,which is a downside.Secondly,that is not Thor.My vote goes to Storm.

[Berkey]

well if thor doesn't make his appearence now then it's not gonna happen if he does now then he might actually be in cw 7. This would put the FF RTCW issues to rest finally and make good for his new upcomming series

[bd2999]

Well, if Clor has half the weather control and raw might of Thor he owns Storm. Although seeing as how he is a clone and Marvel is trying to pimp Storm she will, but she should not.

[Lochdale]

Actually you are wrong. Below is taken from the Wikipedia entry on his powers:

"In addition, Thor is a superb hand-to-hand combatant and has mastered a number of weapons such as the war hammer, sword, and mace. Thor is also very cunning and intuitive in battle, with many centuries of experience. Thor possesses two items that assist him in combat: the Belt of Strength and his mystical hammer Mjolnir. The first item doubles Thor's strength, [12] while the second is used for flight; weather control; energy projection; dimensional control; matter manipulation and the most powerful of Thor's offensives, the God Blast [13] and the Anti-Force. [14] Thor also possesses a pair of gauntlets which enable him to wield Mjolnir when using these latter offensives."

Now true, he did exhibit more powers once he took over the throne of Asgard and did not need Mjolnir to control the weather. But that is because he gained the Odinpower, the power that enchanted Mjolnir to begin with. Clor does not have this power. And without that power Thor controls the weather in exactly the manner I stated.

Perhaps you'd like more evidence supporting my argument? Try this:

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/t/thor.htm

Or perhaps Marvel's own official bio?

http://www.marvel.com/universe/Thor_%28Thor_Odinson%29

Please try to support your argument when you believe someone to be wrong. It is the proper way to debate. To just state someone to be wrong without supporting your argument is insulting.

Actually he is right.

Which would you give more credence to:

1. The actual comics.

2. A website that can be edited by anyone?

In the actual comics Thor can summon lightning and wind without Mjolnir.

He has done so on several occassions. Most recently in 2006 in issue number 3 of Blood Oath.

Again, which source would you give more credence to?

So while it is nice that you cite to third-party sources (and misquote one source) you are still wrong.

Please read the actual comics first before you comment on Thor.

Thank you.

[leftfield]

I think it could be the return of the real "Thor" - Clor (who seems like he is racist :evilsmile ) could have Storm on the ropes and Thor returns to obliterate him -

In an old Wizard article it asked what two heroes would return during CW - and the answers were Thor and Captain Marvel - so unless they consider Clor the return - or perhaps the FF Road to CW - then Thor has to return during the event. And this seems like a good place.

[the Dagman]

Actually he is right.

Which would you give more credence to:

1. The actual comics.

2. A website that can be edited by anyone?

In the actual comics Thor can summon lightning and wind without Mjolnir.

He has done so on several occassions. Most recently in 2006 in issue number 3 of Blood Oath.

Again, which source would you give more credence to?

So while it is nice that you cite to third-party sources (and misquote one source) you are still wrong.

Please read the actual comics first before you comment on Thor.

Thank you.

"Which source would you give more credence to?"

Given how closely current writers are called to task for errors by their editors these days? Case in point: Amazing Spider-Man #535 which is directly contradicted by Civil War #5. It seems that writers these days are not required to properly research their stories.

I have probably read more Thor issues than most people here, thank you.

What source have I "misquoted"? I contend that is quite hard to do when the one quote I did use was directly cut and pasted from the cited source. And the third so-called "third party" source is Marvel itself. Yes, I used 2 third party sources. But when I can produce 3 separate links substantiating what has been in place for nearly 45 years, one of which is the publisher of the character's adventures, I tend to trust my own arguments.

[kane]

Thor can control the weather without mjolnir, as seen last in Thor bload oath.
And someone like Thor, who travels through space, survives energy blasts from cosmic beings will not be effected by Storms lightning.

And Clor as a clone of Thor has the same strength, durability and weather control as the real Thor.

[foxfire]

LOL, so she can't beat him with her powers alone, it has to be some outside force to give her the win?

Even though, this is not the real Thor.:confused: I guess all that time Storm fought against super-powered being is just meaningless to some of you.

Uh... Thor has gone toe to toe with the Hulk, Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Thanos, friggin' Celestials, etc... Storm's lightening isn't going to do much against him. Although this is Clor so who really knows.

[Dracon]

Well, let us see:

Experience:

Thor maybe two thousand years.

Storm maybe twenty years

Clor maybe two weeks.

Powers:

Thor is a Storm God

Storm is a weather Controller (not the same thing)

Clor...well as far as we have seen, he is nothing. He may have Thors weather control powers, or not. Being a Storm God is more likely to be a title than a genetic endowment. Frey and Freya has different portfolios. Clor may turn out to be a Blizzard God or Winter Lord.

In any case, Thor spent about 99,9 % of his career using Mjølner to control the weather. Can anyone who has read the tales to the young Thor remember him having any storm or weather powers before he managed to lift Mjølner? I doubt he is going to figure out his powers any faster than the original.

Clor does not have the powers Mjølner grants his wielder. He should have Thors physical strength, or most of it (Less excersise) and toughness.

Storm is invulnerable to weather, and generates lightening inside her, which she fires from her hands.

We do not know about Clor.

I'd have to say it is an equivalent fight to Storm versus some just manifested mutant with class 100 strength and an energy gun. The odds favor Storm on experience, versatility and range.

Clor is just drawing on his brothers (Thors) rep, which makes him seem more badass. This is a very different fight than Storm vs. Thor.

EDIT: Or possibly like todays Storm against the Tales pre-Mjølner young Thor. Although a young Thor with zero weapons training.

My money is on Storm to stomp Clor.

[Blackcat]

Well, since Strom is alive and well in the beginning of CW final fight, isn't this kind of dumb question? I really don't believe they bother fighting after the war... ;)

They are fighting on the cover of the last CW tie-inn of BP, so I do not think it's a dumb question!

Maybe, justy maybe this fight takes place during Civil War Smarty;)


Wrong.

Thor can control the weather without Mjolnir. With Mjolnir he controls the weather on a scale that Storm simply cannot comprehend, on an actual global scale.

Everything else you said about Clor is entirely accurate.

Yeah, but what Storm did in the 'One Ice' arc was almost on a global scale as well.

.

[Pike]

I have probably read more Thor issues than most people here, thank you.

What source have I "misquoted"? I contend that is quite hard to do when the one quote I did use was directly cut and pasted from the cited source. And the third so-called "third party" source is Marvel itself. Yes, I used 2 third party sources. But when I can produce 3 separate links substantiating what has been in place for nearly 45 years, one of which is the publisher of the character's adventures, I tend to trust my own arguments.

Dude Lochdale is considered to be the Thor expert on these boards. Don't believe me then go to the Rumbles board and ask around there.

The ACTUAL COMICS show Thor controlling the weather without his hammer. What part of that do you not get?

[misterorange]

I still think BP will come and help Storm. I believe BP will destroy Clor, but we shall see.

[Pike]

I still think BP will come and help Storm. I believe BP will destroy Clor, but we shall see.

That would be great.

[LordAllMighty]

Uh... Thor has gone toe to toe with the Hulk, Silver Surfer, Gladiator, Thanos, friggin' Celestials, etc... Storm's lightening isn't going to do much against him. Although this is Clor so who really knows.

Huh...I never said she was fighting Thor.:confused:

[foxfire]

Huh...I never said she was fighting Thor.:confused:
Oh yeah...nevermind :D

[foxfire]

And Clor as a clone of Thor has the same strength, durability and weather control as the real Thor.

That's not necessarily true, X-23 is Wolverine's clone but they have different physical abilities. And like people have been saying I doubt something created in a lab can have the weather-controlling powers of the Norse gods.

[the Dagman]

Dude Lochdale is considered to be the Thor expert on these boards. Don't believe me then go to the Rumbles board and ask around there.

The ACTUAL COMICS show Thor controlling the weather without his hammer. What part of that do you not get?

The part where he uses recent sloppy stories that contradict the established ways Thor's powers work as evidence to support an erroneous theory. I pulled Thor's bio from Marvel itself and it confirms my statements. And to FURTHER prove I am correct, I cite Thor's creator Stan Lee from Journey Into Mystery #83 (the first appearance of Marvel's Thor). This quote is taken directly from page 8, panels 7-9, and page 9, panels 1-3, from the chapter titled "The Power of Thor":

Narration: His blood boiling with excitement, the transformed doctor continues to experiment with his mystic weapon...

Thor: "By stamping the handle twice on the ground...

"...I can create rain or snow...

"...which soon grow into a raging tornado! All the power of the storm is Thor's to command!

"Then, to end the storm, I merely stamp this handle three times on the ground!!!

"But, if I should stamp it but once...

"The hammer changes back into a cane... and I once again become Dr. Don Blake!"

So I did get one part wrong: he needs to stamp the handle 3 times to stop weather in effect. BTW, the words in bold in the above quote were the same words in bold in the comic.

Now I cannot stop a writer from coming along and show Thor using powers in a way that contradicts the established ways his powers work. That is the editor's job, and they don't seem to be doing it very well these days.

But this thread is asking whether or not CLOR can beat Storm or vice-versa. And in researching sources I see that even without Mjolnir, Thor is supposed to be immune to lightning. However, I put to you that Clor should not have the same immunity. While they may share the same DNA, Thor has another thing that Clor does not. Thor has Odin's decree that HE is the God of Thunder, Master of the Storm. Clor doesn't have that decree made with the Odinpower, thus he is just another Class 100 strength guy with a blaster made to look like a hammer.

How I would end the Storm/Clor fight would be to have BP try to jump in, but Clor swats him away. Clor advances towards a fallen Storm who is attempting to regain her feet. Then we see a panel with just someone's right forearm and hand shown, and it is holding Mjolnir and we see the "Tap! Tap!" sound it makes. The next panel we see a mega-lightning bolt strike Clor, totally frying the outer layer of his skin and totally knocking him out for the count. It also takes out the cybernetic control circuitry inside his head. Then we see BP and Storm help each other to their feet. BP is saying: "That was incredible! I have never seen you throw a lightning bolt as powerful as that before!" To which Storm replies: "It wasn't me!" Then they look to where Clor fell and he is gone. End of the issue.

[Starscream]

I feel quite certain that Ororo, as a continuing character and heroine, will have to survive...or win.
Clor, as an abomination, and NOT a real hero, is destined to loose... or be destroyed...
HOWEVER, given the unusual shout that occurred in the 24th issue of Black Panther Clor is lying on the operating gurney as Reed and another doctor walk away... musing over how successful they think they may have been... the other surgeon says, "I mean, what have you done, cloned a Norse God? I mean, he's a Myth isn't he??" When CLOR turns his head and SHOUTS "I AM NO MYTH!"... and the doctor stops dead in his tracks, and Reed just smirks.
I take from this that it might REALLY be the spirit of Thor inhabiting the body of the clone now...and as a result, it might REALLY be the return of Thor now... and if that's the case, I think Ororo may go down until T'challa leads the charge to save her.

Also, I suspect that Clor may change sides, if it is really Thor who is inside him! Wouldn't that just be a kick in the head for ol' Tony and Reed!

I think its highly unlikely that Thors soul emboddys Clor.
Clor did say: "I am no myth" during the last BP but this means nothing.
Most likely CLor said this cause Clor actualy thinks he is Thor cause Richards and friends implanted that idea in his brain.

Kind of like the LMDs Doom uses.
they LMDs that sometimes replace him actualy think they are the real Doom.

[Magneto Rocks]

I take it you guys are all aware there is 0 chance of Clor being destroyed by Storm if this occurs during Civil War.

Since, he, y'know,w ill pop up in CW7. Without doubt.

[Pike]

The part where he uses recent sloppy stories that contradict the established ways Thor's powers work as evidence to support an erroneous theory. I pulled Thor's bio from Marvel itself and it confirms my statements. And to FURTHER prove I am correct, I cite Thor's creator Stan Lee from Journey Into Mystery #83 (the first appearance of Marvel's Thor). This quote is taken directly from page 8, panels 7-9, and page 9, panels 1-3, from the chapter titled "The Power of Thor":

Narration: His blood boiling with excitement, the transformed doctor continues to experiment with his mystic weapon...

Thor: "By stamping the handle twice on the ground...

"...I can create rain or snow...

"...which soon grow into a raging tornado! All the power of the storm is Thor's to command!

"Then, to end the storm, I merely stamp this handle three times on the ground!!!

"But, if I should stamp it but once...

"The hammer changes back into a cane... and I once again become Dr. Don Blake!"



Actual comics have contradicted this because, you know, the character has developed and evolved.

But lets quote Stan Lee some more shall we, what about Thor 93 where Thor shoots lightning from his hands. No hammer, nothing. He shoots lightning from his hands. Why not quote that or are you going to continue to ignore comics and lie about Thor?

Thor has the innate power to control the weather WITHOUT the hammer. This has been shown in the actual comics. You continue to ignore it by calling it sloppy writing depite the Stan Lee, Walter Simonson, Dan Jurgens and Mike Oeming showing that he can do this. So they are all sloppy writers? So Stan Lee who you just quoted is right when it suits you but wrong when he has Thor shooting lightning out of his hands? Yes or no?

Fact is, you are wrong and you know it.

[Dracon]

Just curious: did Thor ever show any weather/storm powers in stories that takes place before he lifted Mjølner for the first time?

[marvelboi77]

Storm wins. I always found it stupid that Thor could not fly. He just through his hammer and the force pulled him up. But it always seemed like he had control up there like he could fly. Does anyone know if Thor can control the weather like Storm does that once he is up there he is making an air current to float on?

[LordAllMighty]

OKay a couple of things to talk about here. Yes, Thor can create/control the weather without Mjlonir, now how powerful this ability is unknown.

From what I've seen over the years, Thor is more powerful, while Storm is more precise.

Also, yes Thor can control the winds to fly. He once used his control over the winds to lift and fly the Avengers Quinjet.

[MAK15]

Clor has brute strength and a penchant to kill which makes him a deadly opponent, But Storm has more variety in terms of weather manipulation, has more experience fighting powerful enemies (I somehow doubt Clor has the memories and experience of his predecesor) and has the wakanda warrioprs at her side too.
I'm sure she'll win, since she's featured on a bunch of covers after civil war, but Clor's gonna put her through the ringer before the match is over.

[Magneto Rocks]

It would be hilarious to see Storm take to the air, deliver a speech, and then have a hole blasted through her.

Not gonna happen, but it would be hilarious ;)

[Van Custo]

The whole "An Aryan thunder God kills Black Goliath" speech was corny and dumb as hell.

[Storm Fan 1]

I voted for Storm. She has become much more powerful since her last battle with Thor. :-)

I checked out the Storm Goddess website and they have a preview of the fight to take place in Black Panther #25...here is the link--- http://www.storm-goddess.com/main.htm --- and the fight looks to be very interesting...I know that in a previous confrontations between Storm and Thor she was defeated(also in the Ultimae War storyline). But then again, there are few super heroes and villains in a power class short of Godhood that can take on an opponent as powerful as Thor. However, Storm has repeatedly taken on opponents who are more powerful or skilled and over came them. I think she will find a more creative way to use her abilities and take Clor out.

[Pike]

The real Thor would utterly curbstomp Storm 10 out of 10 times.

Clor is an abomination with a fake hammer. She should clobber him. The black-white thing though is so much BS.

[Mephistologist]

I voted for Storm. I doubt Clor will be able to defeat her, especially because hes probably not as powerful as Thor who would put the beat down on her and his hammer is like a childs play toy compared to mjolnir.

[MAK15]

my money's on storm, seeing as she's featured in a coupla titles in a few upcoming months.

but maybe she doesnt win?
maybe Clor is like, an inch away fomr crushing her head before some outside force comes to save her?
like Reed Richard's security code? the Real Thor? eh?

[LordAllMighty]

I know that in a previous confrontations between Storm and Thor she was defeated(also in the Ultimae War storyline).

The first one happen in Contest of the Champions 2 and they never fought in Ultimate Wars.:)

[phantom1592]

Actual comics have contradicted this because, you know, the character has developed and evolved.

But lets quote Stan Lee some more shall we, what about Thor 93 where Thor shoots lightning from his hands. No hammer, nothing. He shoots lightning from his hands. Why not quote that or are you going to continue to ignore comics and lie about Thor?
Thor has the innate power to control the weather WITHOUT the hammer. This has been shown in the actual comics. You continue to ignore it by calling it sloppy writing depite the Stan Lee, Walter Simonson, Dan Jurgens and Mike Oeming showing that he can do this. So they are all sloppy writers? So Stan Lee who you just quoted is right when it suits you but wrong when he has Thor shooting lightning out of his hands? Yes or no?

Fact is, you are wrong and you know it.


That is the first thing that popped in my mind when I read the debate. I've read that issue :)

Thor is the GOD of THUNDER. He's the master of the storm. Not the the guy who has a hammer that is master of the storm. Whoever holds the hammer possesses the power of THOR, not the power of Mjlonier.

The hammer can BOOST the powers, but even without it he is still the god of Thunder.


All that being said, The battle is between a well established hero trying to fit into a new book vs. Unamed clone.

There are so many people out there that WANT to see a Thor/Storm fight where storm wins, that I think this will be marvels "out" ;)

[Storm Fan 1]

Actually, if you read Ultimate War #3, you would have seen that Thor and Storm did fight...here is the link to the UXN site for a summary of the issue....http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1132....the sumarry does not reflect it but the issue shows that Thor blasts Storm off of the roof of the building she was defending. :D




The first one happen in Contest of the Champions 2 and they never fought in Ultimate Wars.:)

[BooCoo]

Round and round and round.

These circular arguments are gonna go on UNTIL we see the 'fight'.

As far as Clor's comment I think it was just programming, too. That's probably why Reed was smirking, they implanted that in. And Reed's enough of an egomaniac to think the divine can be controlled (or made) scientifically.

I still think Clor's a loose cannon and will teach some arrogant mortals about the scope of the demiurge essence. You can't copy everything. ;) To me Clor is some shell aspect of the Demiurge (from which Thor is descended) without morals, conscience, or character. Also without Thor's higher powers, more like a baseline force. We'll see.

What would REALLY be freaky is if Clor suddenly gets off the table and tells Reed he knows he isn't the real Thor, but he contains some aspect. And that aspect will destroy any who gets in his way. Then he hurls his fake Mjlonir, scaring the crap out of Reed who stretches away just in time. *laughs head off*

[LordAllMighty]

Actually, if you read Ultimate War #3, you would have seen that Thor and Storm did fight...here is the link to the UXN site for a summary of the issue....http://www.uncannyxmen.net/db/issues/showquestion.asp?fldAuto=1132....the sumarry does not reflect it but the issue shows that Thor blasts Storm off of the roof of the building she was defending. :D


What page? I have the issue in question (UW 4). They don't fight on panel. All you get in Storm saying she was going to fry Thor's Asgardian ass and then later you see Colossus slamming Thor into a wall.

Let me get my issue.:confused:

[DoctorDoom]

It would be hilarious to see Storm take to the air, deliver a speech, and then have a hole blasted through her.

Not gonna happen, but it would be hilarious ;)
Heh. Now you have me imagining the scene.

[Alan2099]

The whole "An Aryan thunder God kills Black Goliath" speech was corny and dumb as hell.

*tsk tsk*

Don't you know that the White Gods are ALWAYS keping the black man down?

Especially when they're cloned cybernetic mentaly unstable gods. I can't remember the last time I turned on the news and didn't hear about some newly cloned white god beating up a black man.

:rolleyes:

[Pike]

Round and round and round.

These circular arguments are gonna go on UNTIL we see the 'fight'.


So that's why we discuss them. It's fun to debate.


I still think Clor's a loose cannon and will teach some arrogant mortals about the scope of the demiurge essence. You can't copy everything. ;) To me Clor is some shell aspect of the Demiurge (from which Thor is descended) without morals, conscience, or character. Also without Thor's higher powers, more like a baseline force. We'll see.


No he is not descended from Demiurge. Not at all actually. Demiurge is his half-brother.

[Red Orion]

So that's why we discuss them. It's fun to debate.




No he is not descended from Demiurge. Not at all actually. Demiurge is his half-brother.

The Demiurge created the Elder Gods and later fathered Atum the God-Eater/Demigorge with Gaea.

[Emperor Sunfire]

I'm assuming that, since Storm can manipulate weather to fly, and Thor can CREATE weather, he should be able to fly by creating more wind--than already available--that's strong enough to lift him. That makes sense, right? It sounds as though there have been plenty of instances in which Thor flied in 1 or more comics without using Mjolnir, and none of them involved the exact same circumstances. The Hammer probably just makes it easier to fly as a backup flight option, and it makes him fly faster. It's interesting that, in the Marvel: Ultimate Alliance game, Thor does indeed throw the hammer and hold on it, but there is a gust of wind directly beneath him; whether he's throwing the hammer and following its flight path while holding onto it or just staying in place, suspended in the air. Mjolnir probably just makes things easier for Thor to conserve his own energy, just as Dr. Strange using his Cloak of Levitation of fly, rather than casting a flight spell. Thor could also just be really attached to the Hammer, which makes sense :)

[Flâneur]

I voted for Storm. She has become much more powerful since her last battle with Thor. :-)

I checked out the Storm Goddess website and they have a preview of the fight to take place in Black Panther #25...here is the link--- http://www.storm-goddess.com/main.htm --- and the fight looks to be very interesting...
I have decided Ororo is an idiot - why oh why is she getting close range with Clor when he's invulnerable and she's not? Especially since she's powerful enough to fry him from a distance...

[ivesaidway2much]

I've not read the issue yet, but given that Storm was nowhere to be seen in CW #7 while Clor had a fairly memorable scene, I think I've got a good guess as to who won this brawl.

[LordAllMighty]

I've not read the issue yet, but given that Storm was nowhere to be seen in CW #7 while Clor had a fairly memorable scene, I think I've got a good guess as to who won this brawl.

From what I just read, Storm plays a semi-pivotal role in Clor demise in Black Panther #25.

[MAK15]

From what I just read, Storm plays a semi-pivotal role in Clor demise.

it was okay, But I wish she didn't act like some cheerleader-ish thing when Herculse gave Clor what-for

[XPac]

I have decided Ororo is an idiot - why oh why is she getting close range with Clor when he's invulnerable and she's not? Especially since she's powerful enough to fry him from a distance...

Storm definately did not fight that battle as intelligently as she should have. And was lucky to survive.

Not a great showing on her part, tactically speaking.

[kitamu re]

Storm definately did not fight that battle as intelligently as she should have. And was lucky to survive.

Not a great showing on her part, tactically speaking.

I am sure hudlin could have wrote a decent ending to storm finsihing clor but editorial wanted "Hercules" to "finish" "clor" greek god finsihing norse god kinda thing:rolleyes:

[spEEdy]

Storm is so underused these days as Black Panthers' wench.
Just write her into oblivion.

They should have killed her off when they had the chance . (in an unused xmen storyline where she would have killed herself to realign the planet on its axis to prevent another ice age)...


btw..i like storm..this was just for my homie jeff!:D

[tjarvis]

I am sure hudlin could have wrote a decent ending to storm finsihing clor but editorial wanted "Hercules" to "finish" "clor" greek god finsihing norse god kinda thing:rolleyes:


I'm not sure if you're joking or not with your rolly eyes, but Hercules had to be the one who finishes Clor because that's what happened in Civil War #7. It wasn't a slight against Hudlin.

[kitamu re]

I'm not sure if you're joking or not with your rolly eyes, but Hercules had to be the one who finishes Clor because that's what happened in Civil War #7. It wasn't a slight against Hudlin.

storm could have easily finsihed clor and been justified in doing so, but millar wanted to write little used hercules as the one finishing clor..which I thought was lame and so predictable..once again hudlin could have wrote the ending of clor but editorial for whatever reason decided to go with millar's hercules killing clor. greek god killing norse god is more pc in the fandom then african goddess killing norse god clone.:cool:

[Loren]

storm could have easily finsihed clor and been justified in doing so, but millar wanted to write little used hercules as the one finishing clor..which I thought was lame and so predictable..once again hudlin could have wrote the ending of clor but editorial for whatever reason decided to go with millar's hercules killing clor. greek god killing norse god is more pc in the fandom then african goddess killing norse god clone.:cool:

So are you suggesting that despite the significant role that Clor played in the main CW mini, he should've been defeated in a tie-in issue? By someone who didn't appear at all in CW #1-5, and appeared (without speaking any dialogue) in the background of a whopping two panels in #6?

It reminds me of Greg Rucka's decision to make Maxwell Lord the main villain of "The OMAC Project," and then have Wonder Woman kill him off in a tie-in. That was a bad idea. If he'd had Kyle Rayner suddenly kill Max in "Green Lantern" tie-in, without having done anything in the mini earlier, it would've been a worse idea.

[TheGreatest]

Storm is so underused these days as Black Panthers' wench.
Just write her into oblivion.

They should have killed her off when they had the chance . (in an unused xmen storyline where she would have killed herself to realign the planet on its axis to prevent another ice age)...


btw..i like storm..this was just for my homie jeff!:D

Well, she's being used in WOLVERINE currently.

[Kayless]

What page? I have the issue in question (UW 4). They don't fight on panel. All you get in Storm saying she was going to fry Thor's Asgardian ass and then later you see Colossus slamming Thor into a wall.
Looks like you skipped a frame. Here, I cut and pasted some frames from Ultimate War #4 (rather than post the whole pages, since the first and last relevant pages only had a single frame regarding Storm and Thor).

http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3302/ultimatewar1qb1.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar1qb1.jpg)
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/7016/ultimatewar2as3.th.jpg (http://img299.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar2as3.jpg)
http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6931/ultimatewar3rv8.th.jpg (http://img408.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar3rv8.jpg)
http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/5910/ultimatewar4sj0.th.jpg (http://img339.imageshack.us/my.php?image=ultimatewar4sj0.jpg)

Since we don't see her for the rest of the issue and Thor has already moved onto other opponents, I think it's safe to say Storm was KOed here. It's worth noting that the S.H.E.I.L.D. agents are no longer pinned down after this, which also indicates she was no longer in the fight.

[DoctorDoom]

storm could have easily finsihed clor and been justified in doing so, but millar wanted to write little used hercules as the one finishing clor..which I thought was lame and so predictable..once again hudlin could have wrote the ending of clor but editorial for whatever reason decided to go with millar's hercules killing clor. greek god killing norse god is more pc in the fandom then african goddess killing norse god clone.:cool:
I don't see a problem with it. Hercules had all rights to destroy the clone...I'd say Hercules was the closest to the real Thor than most of the people there.

[bluezulu]

No problem with Hercules closing it out nor am I upset at Storm's performance. I think people would have been just as mad if she cleaned clor's clock real good. The chick used an unknown aspect of her power for the first time in the heat of battle a mind emp, what more do yall want? I thought the Hurcules thing was cool, predictable but cool.

This was a very good issue. This issue after two years of crying we see the reintroduction of the kimoya card in a real cool way. But the continuity czars are no where to be seen. Hudlin could write his books in a vacuum but he listens to both the fans and detractors and give them pieces of what they want in a really cool way.

[BooCoo]

The Demiurge created the Elder Gods and later fathered Atum the God-Eater/Demigorge with Gaea.

Yup. The original demiurge spawned the elder gods. Later the pantheons were created from the 'nascient godstuff' when mankind developed. Different races saw gods in their own images.

Thor's true family tree is really fascinating. He's really only half Asgardian. Set is his uncle on Gaea's side, along with various other gods. Odin supposedly (this may have been retconned) was a later, more powerful version of Zeus. Odin also was skyfather to the Egyptian gods (under another guise/incarnation, but he had no memory of it) the whole deal is pretty sloppy and messy, but you get the idea.

Technically ALL the gods are related in some fashion...momma Gaea really got around! She hooked up with everybody and had kids in every freaking pantheon, though I suspect Thor was her favorite (and most powerful). Each pantheon has a version of her (she explained this to Thor during the celestial saga).

Wild stuff.

BTW, Storm isn't and never was a goddess. She was seen that way by her tribe originally. I think her and Moondragon suffer from the same syndrome.

[Sparda]

Can someone please give a brief summary on what happend on BP 25?

[thronzeblast]

Well if he is a clone he should have thors strenght,stamina and durability and in terms of the hammer i assume it was built buy reed i am not sure and well we all know he is pretty smart so that thing should be pretty powerful.I would give storm no chance against thor really there powers are too similar and you have to remember that other then having here elemetal powers storm is pretty much normal.All that being said he is not thor,the real thor has coutless years of fighting experience and training.

[XPac]

Well if he is a clone he should have thors strenght,stamina and durability and in terms of the hammer i assume it was built buy reed i am not sure and well we all know he is pretty smart so that thing should be pretty powerful.I would give storm no chance against thor really there powers are too similar and you have to remember that other then having here elemetal powers storm is pretty much normal.All that being said he is not thor,the real thor has coutless years of fighting experience and training.

But the thing about Clor is I don't think he actually has powers similiar to Storm. He can throw electiricty, but I don't believe he can actually control the weather.

So Storm actually had a chance to win this fight without help, had she fought smart.

[LordAllMighty]

But the thing about Clor is I don't think he actually has powers similiar to Storm. He can throw electiricty, but I don't believe he can actually control the weather.

So Storm actually had a chance to win this fight without help, had she fought smart.

I agree, there was a lot she could have done to the cyborg.

The EMP inside of Clor's head was a nice touch though.:)


Can someone please give a brief summary on what happend on BP 25?

Copied and paste this from another board.;)

Most of the book takes place during the final Civil War battle. We see more detail of how T'Challa opens the gate to 42. He has Pulsar to go into light form and shrink and enter his Kimoyo Card where he guides her through the modifications necessary to open the gate. During that time, Storm meets with and debates with Reed (apparently to keep him distracted) and then leaves to go join T'Challa and the rest of the resistance in their invasion of 42.

In the meantime, the Wakandan embassy is given orders to evacuate, yet a SHIELD helicopter orders them to stay put. The embassy auto-protection is activated and somehow the copters are effected, but I'm not sure how or if it is Storm who effects it (she goes to help defend the embassy).

After the battle goes to the streets, Storm and Clor face off (this went on off panel in CW #7). He tosses the hammer at her, and she easily slips it. It seems that Clor actually has no real control over the weather, but basically fires blasts and electricity from his hammer (I don't recall if this contradicts anything shown previously). Clor withstands all of Storm's lightning attacks and fires a killing blast at her, but Sue Richards blocks it with a force field. Clor buries Sue under rubble and takes off after Storm who is flying away. She then concentrates and beams an electromagnetic impulse into his brain which temporarily disrupts his electronics. He falls, yet quickly recovers and is ready to fight, but sees Hercules standing over him. Sue and Storm watch the battle between them awing at how Herc pounds on Clor.

Storm finds T'Challa and he informs her that Cap has surrendered and that they are on their own.

This issue is decent. The dialogue during the fighting seems a bit casual and sometimes jovial, so you don't really feel much intensity. It is kinda cool the way T'Challa gives instructions to Monica and Cage enabling them to win their particular fights (though I'm sure some will question Cage beating Doc Sampson) and Tony anticipating T'Challa's instructions to Monica and taking her down before she can act.

[The Deadpool]

The EMP thing was odd... That's weirder than he controlling solar winds...

[LordAllMighty]

The EMP thing was odd... That's weirder than he controlling solar winds...

Well she has shown control over electromagnetic energy before, even though this is the first time she actually used it inside of a person's body.

[thronzeblast]

Strength Level: Doc Samson can lift (press) approximately 70 tons under optimal conditions.

Strength Level: Luke Cage possesses superhuman strength enabling him to lift about 25 tons

I know strength alone does not win a fight but i dont think he should be able to take doc samson.

[LordAllMighty]

Strength Level: Doc Samson can lift (press) approximately 70 tons under optimal conditions.

Strength Level: Luke Cage possesses superhuman strength enabling him to lift about 25 tons

I know strength alone does not win a fight but i dont think he should be able to take doc samson.

He didn't knock him out, he just hit him.;)

[XPac]

Strength Level: Doc Samson can lift (press) approximately 70 tons under optimal conditions.

Strength Level: Luke Cage possesses superhuman strength enabling him to lift about 25 tons

I know strength alone does not win a fight but i dont think he should be able to take doc samson.

In the Heroes for Hiire series, Cage was able to beat Orka and Iron Clad fo the UFoes without much trouble.

Regardless of how strong they list him in the handbook his recent track record would indicate that he can hang at that level.

[BooCoo]

Strength Level: Doc Samson can lift (press) approximately 70 tons under optimal conditions.

Strength Level: Luke Cage possesses superhuman strength enabling him to lift about 25 tons

I know strength alone does not win a fight but i dont think he should be able to take doc samson.

And Sampson can't fight worth crap. He must've gotten sucker punched dozens of times during the fights. Lifting deadweights isn't fighting. You've gotta have speed, stamina, flexibility and tactics. And anyone over a ton strength could hurl an opponent, or toss them around. You could even damage them with punching strength. When you fight a stronger opponent you look for the weaknessness and exploit 'em. If some hulk comes at you you don't dance, you stab or chop. Or blow up and dismember.

No wonder they called Doc a 'pretty boy'. Sheesh, dude acts like lifting 70 is gonna buy him a ticket.

The Clor vs Storm fight also drives home how powerful the real Thor is. It was said at Newsarama that the 'borg' is not anywhere near thunder's power level. Storm's funny anyway, still stuck on the 'goddess' syndrome. Didn't anyone ever tell her earth is FULL of powerful mortals? Duh...check ego at door, please don't insert foot!

[Orin GA]

Too much comedy in BP #25. I like a good laugh now and then but this issue should have been more serious.

I like it how people are wildly falling from the sky in CW 7 but in BP 25 they are landing gracefully :)