Howard Chaykin love thread

[chbryan]

Mr. Grant, you couldn't be more correct in your assessment of Mr. Chaykin's contributions to the medium. Honestly, many of the storytelling techniques of American Flagg! appear in many current and subsequent titles -- the pacing, the sense of humor, the media-display techniques (to some degree, I wondered if these showed up with Frank Miller's Dark Knight, but that was three years after Flagg), the camera angles -- although they don't appear as successfully. (I also tend to think he was terribly prescient about basketball.)

It makes sense. If creators actually study the form, they should study those who are recognized as innovative, and that would mean looking at the work of people like Howard Chaykin.

Obviously, many of the more popular/sought after artists today have spent a lot of time studying Neal Adams -- Jim Lee shows a lot of Adams influence, as does Bryan Hitch and Steve McNiven, and even John Byrne (though perhaps less so now than earlier in his work).

I'm hoping that Darwyn Cooke, Bruce Timm, and Phil Hester get to be influential. I admire their styles, and their senses of design.

So, anyway, hats off to Howard! The man deserves it.

[Phil Hester]

Agreed. Howard is the bee's knees.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I wish they'd hurry up and get the re-prints of American Flagg! out.
I discovered Chaykin through American Century, and his recent works, which for the most part, I've thoroughly enjoyed.
I'd love to see his work on the book that influenced everyone and made his name.

[Subotai]

I'm still sad that American Century ended its run early - would've loved to see more of Harry's adventures that were alluded to in the first book.

I'd also love to see more literary adaptations from Chaykin - his work on Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser is fantastic.

[Drew Van T.]

Mr. Grant, you couldn't be more correct in your assessment of Mr. Chaykin's contributions to the medium. Honestly, many of the storytelling techniques of American Flagg! appear in many current and subsequent titles -- the pacing, the sense of humor, the media-display techniques (to some degree, I wondered if these showed up with Frank Miller's Dark Knight, but that was three years after Flagg), the camera angles -- although they don't appear as successfully. (I also tend to think he was terribly prescient about basketball.)

Unfortunately, this also means that newcomers to Flagg - such as myself - are finding that on the surface it all seems less than spectacular because by now these techniques and story elements are so commonplace. And I feel the same, incidentally, when revisiting Dark Knight Returns: seminal work, but for the impact it had in its day, and less so for the impact it has on modern readers (this doesn't apply to the same extent to Watchmen, because at least the incredibly intricate structure - on so many levels - of that story couldn't simply be imitated by anyone, so it remains a rarity in this respect at least.)

[Subotai]

Unfortunately, this also means that newcomers to Flagg - such as myself - are finding that on the surface it all seems less than spectacular because by now these techniques and story elements are so commonplace.

Perhaps, but the quality of the writing is definitely not.

[JaeYu1]

I'm STILL waiting for the damn American Flagg tpb!!! Hat's off to Chaykin for predicting the advent of CGI charactes. Reuben lost his job as a lead on the hit Martian tv show by being replaced with a CGI version of himself. Oooooooh! That's gotta hurt!!!

[chbryan]

Unfortunately, this also means that newcomers to Flagg - such as myself - are finding that on the surface it all seems less than spectacular because by now these techniques and story elements are so commonplace. And I feel the same, incidentally, when revisiting Dark Knight Returns: seminal work, but for the impact it had in its day, and less so for the impact it has on modern readers (this doesn't apply to the same extent to Watchmen, because at least the incredibly intricate structure - on so many levels - of that story couldn't simply be imitated by anyone, so it remains a rarity in this respect at least.)

Y'know, not to overpraise American Flagg!, but I felt the same way the first time I watched Citizen Kane. The story, the themes, and the dramatic structure I could admire, but it wasn't until I watched a documentary on Kane that I was able to really appreciate a number of cinematic techniques that were used on the movie.

And, thankfully, I saw the documentary before Kane was re-released for large screen viewing on its 50th anniversary some years ago. The big screen is by far the best place to watch that movie.


-- Please don't anybody conclude that I'm equating Kane and Flagg. Flagg's damn good, but not that good.

[DoctorDoom]

May I join this love train?

[chbryan]

May I join this love train?

Tell all the folks in Russia, and China, too . . .

[chbryan]

Agreed. Howard is the bee's knees.

My apologies for not responding earlier! I must be suffering from Attention Absence Disorder.

Mr. Hester, you and Ande Parks lead me month by month to pick up the new Ant-Man title. I probably wouldn't have tried it if the two of you weren't on the artwork. I like to just stare at the pages -- great design (as always), and you 're really upping the panels/page ratio. (Which makes sense when you're following a tiny little superhero.)

And the storyline's kind of fun, too.

[Brenz]

One of my great comics trove joys: my LCS was in such a hurry to drop bulk stock, they were off-loading great books in the 5-for-a-buck bin, and someone had put two issues of American Flagg! per polybag. I got a near-complete run of the series and specials for 10 cents an issue. Ah, binge!

Found Watchmen #1, too.

[mgs]

I never liked American Flagg! but really enjoyed his American Century books. ALso, if you don't think Darwyn and Timm are influential NOW, then you are kidding yourself. ;p They are now, and they will be in the future.

[chbryan]

I never liked American Flagg! but really enjoyed his American Century books. ALso, if you don't think Darwyn and Timm are influential NOW, then you are kidding yourself. ;p They are now, and they will be in the future.

If there are aspiring young pencillers sitting at their drawing tables (or Wacoms) and trying to draw like Cooke or Timm, I think that's great.

But, from what I read, the artists I mentioned don't seem to generate as much fan drool as Hitch, Finch, or Turner (just to select some examples), which leads me to think that Cooke, Timm, or Hester aren't being used widely as influences these days.

[mgs]

If there are aspiring young pencillers sitting at their drawing tables (or Wacoms) and trying to draw like Cooke or Timm, I think that's great.

But, from what I read, the artists I mentioned don't seem to generate as much fan drool as Hitch, Finch, or Turner (just to select some examples), which leads me to think that Cooke, Timm, or Hester aren't being used widely as influences these days.

if anything, I think there may be more 'chat' about those other artists is that they were some of the more well known artists of the 90's heyday of bad girls and such, and when comics received a lot of exposure before the big bust. honestly don't know much about hitch, but finch and turner turn out pretty work loaded with the same figured pre-pubescent girls in nearly all of their works. they also don't last very long these days, maybe drawing an issue or two, then burning out, while cooke, t&h are able to sustain a comic at least till it's end.

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I got Chaykin's Black Kiss the other day.

I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it sure wasn't that.
Not really sure how I feel about it actually.

[dancj]

I've had Black Kiss for years, but I still haven't managed to bring myself to read it...

[FunkyGreenJerusalem]

I've had Black Kiss for years, but I still haven't managed to bring myself to read it...

Well I've left it halfway through - it's all right, but it seems overly complicated for something that's supposed to be arousing/gross-out entertainment.

He certainly out did the Crying Game though.