Which came first, Earth 1 or Earth 2?

[Green Lantern wannabe]

In IC, the Earth 2 Superman said that, when he and his fellow JSA'ers met the JLA'ers from Earth 1, he and his colleagues agreed that they would be Earth 2 and the JLA'ers would be Earth 1, EVEN THOUGH EARTH 2 HEROES CAME FIRST. And, as Alexander Luthor said, the Earth 2 Superman was the crux to everything, a homage to the fact that, when he first appeared in 1938 in Action Comics, he set off a world wide pop cultural phenomenon.

But I just realized that this may not be the whole story. Yes, Earth 2 came first, and Superman 2 is the catalyst for all superheroes (even, I would argue, those in the Marvel Universe).

BUT ...

In the DC canon, the multiverse centers around Oa and the Guardians, who were in the Earth 1 universe, not the Earth 2 one, and they were in fact indirectly responsible for the creation of the Golden Age Green Lantern - they gathered the magic in the universe, put it in a star, and that collected magic in fact sent a part of itself to Earth 2, which became the meteor from which Alan Scott's Green Lantern and Ring were created. And, as Superboy Prime said, if he destroyed Oa on the newly created universe, the universe would reboot.

So I think it is accurate to say that Earth 1 came before Earth 2. What do you think?

[Ontir]

Earth 2 came before Earth 1, but Oa in the Earth 1 universe came before both of them.

[MAK15]

I thnk that earth 2 was first seen in publication, but earth one and two came to be atthe exact same time. Something about Krona seeing how the universe was made, accidentally making alternate realities, Monitor/Anti-Monitor...Pariah, Super heroes, super villains, crisis, Spectre, etc etc.

At least I thnk that all the earth's were created at the same time.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Oh yes, both Earths as far as I know were created at the same time, but I was referring to the numbering of the Earths. Superman 2 was correct in saying that his Earth could have been called Earth 1, or the first Earth to have superheroes, but he is not correct in the sense that the actual Earth 1 is the Earth whose universe has Oa.

So, to put my point in a different way, which is the "first" Earth? Not in terms of time but in terms of the number one version. My answer is Earth 1, because it is in the same universe as Oa. IOW, if you had to number the Earths, which would be 1 and which would be 2? I would leave that as it is.

[MAK15]

maybe this is more of a perspective question...
I mean, if I were to meet myself fomr another earth, wouldnt he think that his earth was the first one?
Woulndt I thnk that my earth was the first?

hmmm...maybe we shouldnt do the numbering thing, maybe we should give the earth's titles like: Kingdom Come earth?
Kal-L earth?
anti-matter earth?

However, I just realized something. The secret of 52 is that the multiverse tsill exists, right? so maybe now there are only 52 earths?
maybe the earth we're reading about in 52 and the other DC titles is based on earth 52, and since Rip Hunter likes to count down from that number, maybe the first earth isn't "1", but rather "52".

hmmm....

[Green Lantern wannabe]

hmmm...maybe we shouldnt do the numbering thing, maybe we should give the earth's titles like: Kingdom Come earth?
Kal-L earth?
anti-matter earth?

That's a far better way of doing it. I have been thinking along those lines. We did have an Earth-S for the Shazam family, after all. Earth 1 should be Earth-Oa, and Earth 2 should be Earth Golden Age.

[Kannoos]

There was apparently an Oa on Earth-D as well, so you can't really call Earth-one Earth-Oa.

[Joe Acro]

I don't think either came first. I think they both were formed at the same time and had similar events up to a point. Earth-2 merely had an earlier age of heroes.

[Rhydaman]

In IC, the Earth 2 Superman said that, when he and his fellow JSA'ers met the JLA'ers from Earth 1, he and his colleagues agreed that they would be Earth 2 and the JLA'ers would be Earth 1, EVEN THOUGH EARTH 2 HEROES CAME FIRST. And, as Alexander Luthor said, the Earth 2 Superman was the crux to everything, a homage to the fact that, when he first appeared in 1938 in Action Comics, he set off a world wide pop cultural phenomenon.

But I just realized that this may not be the whole story. Yes, Earth 2 came first, and Superman 2 is the catalyst for all superheroes (even, I would argue, those in the Marvel Universe).

BUT ...

In the DC canon, the multiverse centers around Oa and the Guardians, who were in the Earth 1 universe, not the Earth 2 one, and they were in fact indirectly responsible for the creation of the Golden Age Green Lantern - they gathered the magic in the universe, put it in a star, and that collected magic in fact sent a part of itself to Earth 2, which became the meteor from which Alan Scott's Green Lantern and Ring were created. And, as Superboy Prime said, if he destroyed Oa on the newly created universe, the universe would reboot.

So I think it is accurate to say that Earth 1 came before Earth 2. What do you think?

Earth 1's universe might have come before Earth 2's (although it seems that the split was well before the creation of either Earth), but that's not what Superman said. He said that "we", i.e., the heroes on his earth, came first.

[Jack]

Earth 1 technically existed before the other Earths, however the creation of the Multiverse was retroactive in effect, so they essentially exist backwards in time. So as far as the two universes connect, Earth 2 had superheroes before Earth 1.

[DDM]

Earth-2 has all the DC Golden Age heroes & villains which were originally published during World War II. This is the beginning of DC Comics.

Earth-1 came from a rebirth of new heroes using the Golden Age heroes' names from the 1960's.

[Citizen V]

Its amusing,because in IC the Pre-Crisis Superman makes a comment that its silly to call Earth-2..Earth-2,since that earth came first.

[Green Lantern wannabe]

Interesting - I never knew there was an Earth-D, but I haven't found any reference to Oa-D, as in Oa-1. But, if there was an Oa-D, then was there Kronos-D whose hand was seen at the creation of the universe?

I think it was Kronos-1 of Universe-1 which did it, not of any other universe.

[Kannoos]

I don't think they ever actually call it Oa, but it's the same thing:

http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcucrisisoninfinit5.jpg

http://img19.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcucrisisoninfinit3.jpg

http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=legendsofthedcucrisisoninfinit4.jpg

[jam]

I seem to remember Marv Wolfman addressed this issue in : I think it was a "DC Presents" Annual, featuring a team-up between the Earth One and Two Superman, and Alexander Luthor, the only hero on the Crime Syndicate's Earth.

I think Lex Luthor makes some remark about how the numbering of Earths is not pejorative but rather the fact that it was someone from Earth 1 (Barry Allen) who travelled to Earth 2 (Jay Garrick). So someone from Earth 1 discovered Earth 2, not vice-versa, and so it is the order of discovering that dictates the numbering.

[sly_kat]

course suppose we should be asking which earth is coming back first right? I'm convinced we're getting EArth 1 back...not Earth 2....;)

[Reptisaurus!]

In terms of publishing history, Earth-1 came first.

Earth 2 was supposed to be inhabited by DC's Golden Age characters, but there's enough discrepancies between the Earth-2 canon and the Golden Age stories that they can't be the same thing.

So:

Golden Age DC came first.
Then Earth-1
Then Earth-2.

[djm72]

In terms of pre-Crisis DCU continuity, Earth-2 saw it's heroes debut first. The JSA and the other Golden Age heroes appeared during the late 30. Earth-1 only saw their heroes debut in the 1950s and as time went along, their debuts were moved later and later.

In reality, the two Earths and the concept of the multiverse were created at the exact same time.

The Earth-1 name was given the Justice League Earth because that was the main Earth DC focused on. That's where they made their money. Therefore the "1" in the name was essentially a ranking. The JLA Earth was #1 in importance, the JSA Earth was #2.

This confusion, of course, comes from the lack of continuity seen before the Silver Age of comics. Originally it was assumed each hero existed in their own universe. Batman and Superman, for example, wouldn't be expected to know about each other or to meet.

The shared universe concept was not established until All-Star Comics #3, which saw the debut of the JSA.

Even then, it was loosely defined. In fact, the JSA was made up of characters from two companies - National (the company that would become DC) and All-American. The later company actually owned Atom, Flash, Hawkman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Johnny Thunder, Wildcat, Red Tornado, Mr. Terrific, Dr. Mid-Nite and a few others that now belong to DC.

For a brief period, the two companies stopped working together and All-American published JSA adventures without the DC heroes (Spectre and Starman), replacing them with All-American owned characters (Mr. Terrific and Wildcat). It wasn't until 1946 that All-American sold it's intellectual property to DC.

It has been well established that in the late 40s and early 50s, superheroes weren't as popular as they had been and many previously super-hero dominated titles changed to focus on sci-fi, war or western tales. Yet DC continued to publish stories featuring many of their heroes. Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Arrow, Black Canary, Aquaman and a few other stayed in print.

When the decision was made to introduce new versions of old hero concepts like Flash, Green Lantern and others, they took their place right along side the heroes that had continued to be published since the Golden Age.

Until this point, there was one universe and one Earth. The Superman that debuted in Action Comics #1 was the same Superman who was now a member of the JLA. The Batman who debut in Detective Comics #27 was the same Batman who was now a member of the JLA.

But fans started asking questions about what happened to the other Golden Age heroes. If Superman, Batman and others were still around, why weren't the other Golden Age heroes. The answer was simple - the missing Golden Age heroes were on an alternate Earth.

So, in The Flash #123 (1961) the multiverse was established. The Golden Age history of the DCU was set on Earth-2, the Silver Age onward DCU was set on Earth-1. The single DCU Earth which had existed was essentially split in two.

This didn't answer questions about how Superman and the other Golden Agers now in the JLA got from the JSA Earth to the JLA Earth or why they seemed so young compared to their Golden Age counterparts. This was when DC created Earth-2 versions of those characters.

Earth-2 Superman didn't appear until 1969 and when he did, he looked identical to Earth-1 Superman, including the "S" on his chest. Eventually, DC used contradictory elements of Superman's continuity and gave them to the Earth-2 Superman. Things like working for the Daily Star, not being Superboy, the red headed Luthor. While Superman kept the now established Daily Planet, a youth spent as Superboy and a bald headed Luthor. This despite the fact that those elements, and many others, were created during the Golden Age.

Clear as mud.

[Dark Ben]

I've looked back In my CoIE issues and it stated that Oa has only one twin Qward (in the antimatter universe) but it's not stated that Oa stand in one Universe only in the recent GL & Ion series they are clearly aware of Multiverse... and in the Earth-D case, this earth is in the sector 5134 whereas Earth 1 is in sector 2814 so it can't be the same earth at the same place
maybe the gardians divided sector in space but also in alternate universe
maybe it's like the new gods who are apart
and for the earth 1 earth 2
Earth 2 should have been earth 1 since in this timeline superman appeared in 1938 (as in our timeline) but in earth 1 it's only in the 60's(silver age) that superman began to operate so if you want a timeline

1938(earth 2)------------(1954 debut of earth 1)-------(Barry Allen meets Jay Garrick the earths are nammed from BA point of view)

As only silver age heroes had their title it was more common for readers to all gather them in earth one but with the interactions between earth 1 & 2 and as some characters were the same (Superman Bat-Man Wonder Woman) DC decided to age it heroes for the fan not to confuse which superman was who

well that's a bit hard to understand I hope I've been clear enough

edit:Sorry I didn't see you have answered a bit djm72

[marshal99]

As explained in many pre-crisis stories , the earth numbering doesn't really matter , it is just the order of discovery. It was Barry Allen that first stumble on justice society earth so it became JLA earth-1 & JSA earth-2 and when they fought the CSA , it became earth-3 since it was the third parallel earth to be discovered and so on and so forth. Jay & Barry had actually debated on this on one of the JLA/JSA teamups.

[Sandy Hausler]

Oh yes, both Earths as far as I know were created at the same time, but I was referring to the numbering of the Earths. Superman 2 was correct in saying that his Earth could have been called Earth 1, or the first Earth to have superheroes, but he is not correct in the sense that the actual Earth 1 is the Earth whose universe has Oa.

So, to put my point in a different way, which is the "first" Earth? Not in terms of time but in terms of the number one version. My answer is Earth 1, because it is in the same universe as Oa. IOW, if you had to number the Earths, which would be 1 and which would be 2? I would leave that as it is.

I think it was explained in the day that the first crossing came from Earth 1 to Earth 2. So Earth 1 was given to the Earth from which the discoverer (Barry Allen) of the multiverse came. Of course, Roy Thomas screwed that up in All Star Squadron where there were numerous crossings before Barry Allen turned up in Earth 2.

Sandy Hausler

[Dark Ben]

If I remember well he uses the earth 2 for readers but it comes by the character after some Time-Travell Stuff with earth one (wasn't it in crisis on Earth Prime ?)

[ducklord]

There are a number of ways of looking at this...

Cosmically, one could argue that the Earth-One universe came "first," since it contained the version of Oa that spawned Krona, who was responsible for the pre-Crisis Multiverse.

Of course, since the pre-Multiverse universe wasn't really "Earth-One," but (presumably) an amalgamation of all the potential universes that split up to form the multiverse, that argument doesn't really hold water.

Once the multiverse was formed, none of the individual parallel universes could really be said to "come first," since the splitting of the universe was retroactive. In other words, each universe had its own unique timeline, stretching from the Big Bang/Big Cosmic Hand to the End of Time.

Publishing-wise, the adventures on Earth-2 came first, although is wasn't identified as such at the time.

The first time Earths 1 and 2 were identified, back in "Flash of Two Worlds," Earth-1 came first, by a few pages. As mentioned above, even though the modern age of super-heroes was born on Earth-2 a couple of decades before it happened on Earth-1, Earth-1 got the precious "1" because Barry Allen discovered Jay Garrick's Earth, not the other way around. Amusingly, the post-Crisis, positive universe Earth was similarly christened Earth-2 by the anti-matter universe's Lex Luthor for the same reason.

It remains to be seen how all of this will shake out in the post-IC DCU,
Mike.