Livewire Review: Exclusive Mike Carey Interview!!

[Beast]

Haven't seen this posted over here yet, so I thought I'd give heads-up. As part of the celebration of the launch of LWW's new revamp of 'Livewire Review', they have an exclusive interview with Mike Carey. Lotsa of teases for X-Men and the upcoming X-Books crossover. I know people have been waiting for this interview to be posted for sometime. So follow the link to announcement and the interview. It sounds like good stuff. :)

http://livewireworld.net/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1784

[Nyssane]

Eee, so there will be more Cargill after the annual! Hopefully she'll be one of the villains featured in #200's story. I was skeptical at first about them using the Acolytes name, but it looks like they really will use it. :( I was hoping for a new villain team name.

Mike Carey himself, I've always loved the man but my GOD could he be any sweeter? He's always so friendly, and he seems to know the most important thing about comic books: every character has a fan and he never seems to disrespect that by damaging characters. I really love that about him. CAREY = GOD.

[Beast]

Hmmm, I wonder who the new Astonishing X-Men writer is from the clue Mike Carey dropped. :)

[Dazzler]

Northstar and Aurora alone are enough to twitch my twig and berries.

--Dazz

[Nyssane]

Northstar and Aurora alone are enough to twitch my twig and berries.

--Dazz

LMAO that's the best.

[Joe Acro]

{clicks Beast's link}

Oh, it must be like the occasional Newsrama interview. No, wait, there's another link.

{clicks new link}

Where's the interview? Oh, there's a link to it.

{clicks link}

Finally!


A good interview, although I'm actually more curious about him discussing Dr. Strange...

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

what kind of dr. is doc strange anyway

[ibrakeforchinwe]

what kind of dr. is doc strange anyway

He was a surgeon.

Mike Carey is so cool! I really cant wait for the annual, issue #200 and the crossover. :D

Plus at his blog he said there would be Rachel/Cable interaction during the crossover!

[proteus]

He was a surgeon.

Mike Carey is so cool! I really cant wait for the annual, issue #200 and the crossover. :D

Plus at his blog he said there would be Rachel/Cable interaction during the crossover!


Which comment in his blog did he say there would be Rachel/Cable interaction?

[ProfeZZor X]

No mention of the "Drake-ster" I see (assuming he'll be mentioned in the second part of the interview)... No matter, I should enjoy the annual thoroughly, now that Random is finally back. :D

[venuscameback]

No mention of the "Drake-ster" I see (assuming he'll be mentioned in the second part of the interview)... No matter, I should enjoy the annual thoroughly, now that Random is finally back. :D

Look for all the lowdown on Bobby in part 2 - I felt we had to run with the most topical stuff first. In part two we get to grips with all of the current X-Men team, including info on Lady M and Karima

[ProfeZZor X]

Look for all the lowdown on Bobby in part 2 - I felt we had to run with the most topical stuff first. In part two we get to grips with all of the current X-Men team, including info on Lady M and Karima

Thanks for the interview. It was very enjoyable. :D

... When will part 2 be available for viewing?

[Beast]

Look for all the lowdown on Bobby in part 2 - I felt we had to run with the most topical stuff first. In part two we get to grips with all of the current X-Men team, including info on Lady M and Karima
Can't wait for Part 2. To coin a phrase, "I shiver with anticipation." :D

[venuscameback]

Thanks for the interview. It was very enjoyable. :D

... When will part 2 be available for viewing?

Glad you enjoyed it. all being well Part 2 will go live on Saturday

[marco19]

great interview cant wait for part 2.....this is the best x-book by far.....

2 quick things....i think we can assume after the Mark Brooks Newsarama interview yesterday he will probably be drawing the prologue book...and as too the astoshing x-men writer i know its been rumored to be Mark Millar.....but with the mention in a few places of the new writer being at the confernce its 100 percent not him,,

[Faded]

Eee, so there will be more Cargill after the annual! Hopefully she'll be one of the villains featured in #200's story. I was skeptical at first about them using the Acolytes name, but it looks like they really will use it. :( I was hoping for a new villain team name.

Mike Carey himself, I've always loved the man but my GOD could he be any sweeter? He's always so friendly, and he seems to know the most important thing about comic books: every character has a fan and he never seems to disrespect that by damaging characters. I really love that about him. CAREY = GOD.

I know! He's either the most PR-ready writer or the nicest one that has ever come across an interview/site (or both!)

I'm disappointed it'll only be those Acolytes, but being in bigger company later sounds great. I love his ideas and his way of handling characters...Scanner-less or not. ;)

Thanks Ian and LWW! Great interview!

[Frodo-X]

Between his comments in this interview and on his blog, I'm about 90% sure that Northstar will be one of the new team members coming.

[Beast]

Between his comments in this interview and on his blog, I'm about 90% sure that Northstar will be one of the new team members coming.
Agreed. I'm up for that, if he manages to get Beast and keep Iceman as well. :D

[Frodo-X]

Well, on his blog he mentions being very excited because he's possibly getting one character that he really likes and never thought he had a shot at.

Could very well be talking about Beast.

Here it is:

But yeah, some of those core three will still be in place when the dust settles. And I *did* get some of the other mutants who were on my wish list - along with potential dibs on a character I didn’t even ask for because I was sure the answer was going to be no. The post-#207 team is going to be hot enough that we may finally have to give them an adjective. Suggestions?

[Beast]

Well, on his blog he mentions being very excited because he's getting one character that he really likes and never thought he had a shot at.

Could very well be talking about Beast.
Well, he is doing a Mythos: Beast book just for kicks. So I'd say possibly. :)

[Matthew K.]

Carey delivers! I love where X-Men is right now. it's such a great, fun, action-drama, with a dash of comedy read :D

[Beast]

Well, his short wish list of characters from what I recall initially was...

Rogue, Cyclops, Beast.

Those are the only ones that I could dig up from his old wish list.

[Flameworthy]

It sounds like he's not going to be doing much if anything with Sunfire. *sigh* You'd think I'd be use to this by now. :(

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

What's live wire review?

[Beast]

What's live wire review?
... 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10. *Sighs*

[claimtosubclaim]

Well, his short wish list of characters from what I recall initially was...

Rogue, Cyclops, Beast.

Those are the only ones that I could dig up from his old wish list.

Here's a fuller wish list:

"there are a *lot* of mutants I’d like to get my grubby hands on. You already know my favourites on the Astonishing team (Beast, Cyclops, Emma). I love Northstar. I’ve got a lot of time for Psylocke and Husk. I think both Maggott and Marrow can be very cool when they’re written right. On the Uncanny side of things, I’ve always liked both Colossus and Nightcrawler. Marvel Girl is a great character and interacts very interestingly with Cable. X23 is way cool, and I love Mercury too. Hmm. It’s looking like a pretty big team, and all the other writers in the X-verse would throw me off a tall building. Still, it’d probably be worth it."

[Beast]

Thanks. Well, Maggott's likely out... being dead. If C.B. Cebluski is indeed the new Astonishing writer, he'll probably keep Colossus, given his great Colossus story. And that means Kitty likely taken as well. Psylocke's taken for now. I doubt that Marvel would take X-23 away from K&Y. Sorta helps to wittle down who might be joining up. Beast, Husk, Marvel Girl, Rogue, Northstar, and Iceman. I could go for that. :)

[twilight]

Wow!
What a cool interview.

We should all sign up and participate in it's forum and buy things from it's store.

:)

[claimtosubclaim]

Thanks. Well, Maggott's likely out... being dead. If C.B. Cebluski is indeed the new Astonishing writer, he'll probably keep Colossus, given his great Colossus story. And that means Kitty likely taken as well. Psylocke's taken for now. I doubt that Marvel would take X-23 away from K&Y. Sorta helps to wittle down who might be joining up. Beast, Husk, Marvel Girl, Rogue, Northstar, and Iceman. I could go for that. :)

Exchange Marvel Girl for Angel or Polaris, and you have my full compliment.
I don't think Rachel will have much to say to the other members, and vice versa. It seems likely that she will be involved with something Cable-related, along with Sam.

[venuscameback]

What's live wire review?

Livewire World (http://livewireworld.com) is an online comics store. Livewire Review (http://livewireworld.net/livewirereview) is a sister website where we publish interviews, reviews, features etc.

[venuscameback]

I know! He's either the most PR-ready writer or the nicest one that has ever come across an interview/site (or both!)

I'm disappointed it'll only be those Acolytes, but being in bigger company later sounds great. I love his ideas and his way of handling characters...Scanner-less or not. ;)

Thanks Ian and LWW! Great interview!

Glad you enjoyed it, Faded (and Marko). Mike is incredibly nice, a very cool guy

[venuscameback]

Wow!
What a cool interview.

We should all sign up and participate in it's forum and buy things from it's store.

:)

Twilight, you're a nutter, I love you

[rwsmith]

as too the astoshing x-men writer i know its been rumored to be Mark Millar.....but with the mention in a few places of the new writer being at the confernce its 100 percent not him,,

Actually, he didn't come out and say that the new writer was at the conference. He said that someone at the conference (who is a writer and is not currently writing any X-titles) will "have a role." My guess is that it's some Hollywood name who will be co-writing with someone at the conference. Perhaps Bryan Singer or someone like that?

As for the post-200 X-men team, I'm thinking Carey won't get Beast because he's already committed to the Astonishing roster. My guess is that it's Psylocke or Northstar that he's referring to, but I could be wrong.

[claimtosubclaim]

Actually, Beast isn't necessarily committed to the Astonishing roster. It all depends on whether the new writer has plans to use him. Claremont is going to have Psylocke in Exiles for who knows how long... :( and I doubt Northstar is the character that he didn't think was up for grabs, because he's the one who's been using him. My bets are hedged on a member from Astonishing.

[ProfeZZor X]

Well, his short wish list of characters from what I recall initially was...

Rogue, Cyclops, Beast.

Those are the only ones that I could dig up from his old wish list.

It'd be nice if he included Iceman in that mix... That way, Carey could bring back that old comradery Hank and Bobby use to share in the early years.

[Beast]

It'd be nice if he included Iceman in that mix... That way, Carey could bring back that old comradery Hank and Bobby use to share in the early years.
At least we can agree on that. I miss the old Hank/Bobby friendship being shown. Even when Beast is cameoing in X-Men, it wasn't really shown. Hank chatted Bobby up just a bit when he was in the nutrient bath, but that's about it. So hopefully Carey snagged him. He seems excited about one of his pulls.

[Nyssane]

I must be like the only one who doesn't want the team to change that drastically. I mean, ditch Sabretooth, Karima, and Lady Mastermind and you have yourself a great team. I don't want to see all these big namers like Beast or whatnot added. :( *whine whine*

It'll just take away from Frenzy's panel time.

[Sentinel K]

I must be like the only one who doesn't want the team to change that drastically. I mean, ditch Sabretooth, Karima, and Lady Mastermind and you have yourself a great team. I don't want to see all these big namers like Beast or whatnot added. :( *whine whine*

It'll just take away from Frenzy's panel time.

I'd like Karima to stay. She needs a a nice, good story to make herself some fans and drag herself out of the D-list.

[ProfeZZor X]

I'm more or less leaning towards some of the old-school team members, including one or two from the Giant-Sized team. Then, mix in one of the New X-Men students to give him/her field experience.

I know I'll get flamed for this but IMO, Jubilee sucked as an X-Man... So if she can become an X-Man, so can any of the other students.

[Omega Alpha]

Double post.

[Omega Alpha]

Actually, he didn't come out and say that the new writer was at the conference. He said that someone at the conference (who is a writer and is not currently writing any X-titles) will "have a role." My guess is that it's some Hollywood name who will be co-writing with someone at the conference. Perhaps Bryan Singer or someone like that?

Singer will be working in Ultimate X-men. And i think they would have announced if it was a Hollywood writer already, my guess is someone from DC, or one of those already in Marvel and is not overload with books, like JMS or Greg Pak.


As for the post-200 X-men team, I'm thinking Carey won't get Beast because he's already committed to the Astonishing roster. My guess is that it's Psylocke or Northstar that he's referring to, but I could be wrong.

I don't think that Carey will get Beast either, he will be in Astonishing, wish is the team he's better suited to be. I hope it's Psylocke, and Marvel finally came to it's senses.

If C.B. Cebluski is indeed the new Astonishing writer, he'll probably keep Colossus, given his great Colossus story. A

When did you heard about C.B. Cebluski?:confused: I don't think he's known enough to be put in Marvel's second top-selling title.

[Mariah]

I must be like the only one who doesn't want the team to change that drastically. I mean, ditch Sabretooth, Karima, and Lady Mastermind and you have yourself a great team. I don't want to see all these big namers like Beast or whatnot added. :( *whine whine*

It'll just take away from Frenzy's panel time.
They should keep Lady M. I loves her.

[Faded]

I must be like the only one who doesn't want the team to change that drastically. I mean, ditch Sabretooth, Karima, and Lady Mastermind and you have yourself a great team. I don't want to see all these big namers like Beast or whatnot added. :( *whine whine*

I agree. I'd love to see some equally Z-List characters take those three's place. ;)

Leave the A-List for Astonishing.

[scouse mouse]

They should keep Lady M. I loves her.

I adore Lady M aswell and from what Carey has said on his blog, about her not going into limbo, I think she stands a very good chance of staying on the team once the big roster change happens.

[Beast]

I don't think that Carey will get Beast either, he will be in Astonishing, wish is the team he's better suited to be.
He's up for grabs at the same time that the roster swaps are happening.
When did you heard about C.B. Cebluski?:confused: I don't think he's known enough to be put in Marvel's second top-selling title.
Perhaps if you had read the link in the first post, you'd know. And yes, he fits the clues that Mike Carey dropped regarding the mystery party who was in attendance at the X-Retreat.

[Omega Alpha]

He's up for grabs at the same time that the roster swaps are happening.

Perhaps if you had read the link in the first post, you'd know. And yes, he fits the clues that Mike Carey dropped regarding the mystery party who was in attendance at the X-Retreat.

I read, and i still have no idea. And i doubt they will put someone not very known in the top selling X-title.

[Nyssane]

I agree. I'd love to see some equally Z-List characters take those three's place.

Leave the A-List for Astonishing.

Exactly. I love how Rogue, Iceman, and Cannonball are really the only BIG names on the team, and even Cannonball is debatably B-List. Take away Karima and add Freakshow and Wicked, take away Sabretooth and add Marrow (although I don't care much for her) or Frenzy ;), take away Lady Mastermind and add Empath or something. Not Beast, Angel, and Wolverine, as I'm sure all the newer recruits will be major X-Men. :( :( :(!!!

And fiiine, Mariah, since you lub Lady M so much, I guess I could be fine with her on the team. Or at least pushed back to recurring status.

[Volk1]

They should keep Lady M. I loves her.

I hear that. Losing Lady M will be a tragedy!!!:( Keep Regan!

Carey is the man. I love his grand ideal about Exodus and what Exodus might become. I'm shivering in my Puma's about the very idea of it all.

I love his love for Northstar and Aurora. I hope BOTH of them are going to be a part of his new squad. Aurora especially has some great story-telling value that I want to see so badly.

I love that there's going to more Acolytes!!!!!

The only thing I'm disappointed is, like Flameworthy mention, is the lack of significance Sunfire is going to play. It seems like no matter what, no writer wants to touch that character. Shiro is very marketable and very underrated. If I was a writer, I'd make him A-List with a snap of my fingers. Mhhmmm.:p It's kind of sad but I know there's only so many pages in all 6 X-books (9 if you count Exiles and both Wolverine's) to go around. :rolleyes:

I love Carey's vision right now and hopefully some of the newer cast members are characters I like. *prays*

[ProfeZZor X]

I really don't care for Karima or Lady M, so what I would do is use one of the various loose cannons from New X-Men book. There are plenty of telepaths in that book with unique abilities, so it shouldn't be too hard to find one (or two) that's compelling enough to train as a fully fledged X-Man.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

I'm glad that Carey wants to write a strong Exodus return. That I can live with...wish he could of elaborated more on if Sinister will be headlining this summer but having another great underrated villian like Exodus getting some credibility back works for me as well.

[The Fury]

...wish he could of elaborated more on if Sinister will be headlining this summer but having another great underrated villian like Exodus getting some credibility back works for me as well.

Keep an eye out for part 2 of the interview then, hopefully it will have more good stuff.

[Atomic Mongoose]

Anybody have a link to the preview art featuring Cargill, Tempo, etc. that Carey mentioned is out there somewhere? Thanks! :)

[Flameworthy]

The only thing I'm disappointed is, like Flameworthy mention, is the lack of significance Sunfire is going to play. It seems like no matter what, no writer wants to touch that character. Shiro is very marketable and very underrated. If I was a writer, I'd make him A-List with a snap of my fingers. Mhhmmm.:p It's kind of sad but I know there's only so many pages in all 6 X-books (9 if you count Exiles and both Wolverine's) to go around. :rolleyes:


OMG, I think I've fallen in love with you forever! :p :D

[Volk1]

OMG, I think I've fallen in love with you forever! :p :D

Yay!! I'm gettin married!:)

Shiro kicks so much booty. I love how he has history with Rogue now and I wish they were on the same team. It's be heated all the time. So much tension........so much hook-up potential......*sigh*.

Sunfire could lead a team if he had too, but then again, would anybody follow him? He's kind of distant and doesn't have the connection the other X-Men do.

[Beast]

Part 2 of the Interview with Mike Carey is up now at the same link. :)

http://livewireworld.net/livewirereview/interviews.htm

[We R. Venom]

Im happy as hell. This means Carey will be on untill at least 2008, God willing lol. Glad carey is sticking to the "Bobby/Mystique thing right now," as he said he was interested in just that for now. But at least he is thinking about the Bobby sexuallity thingy. His comments about Bobby being attraced to most things was interesting as hell. I am getting to see where is head is at. Must piss some people off, lol. Bobby gets... well spoiler.

[Beast]

LWW: As soon as you said there was going to be romantic developments with Mystique it put ideas into my mind. I like the idea of Iceman being this kind of closet bisexual that readers know more about than anyone else, more than his team-mates. I imagine the kind of scene where you’ve got Iceman leaving the bedroom and there’s Mystique in bed, laying there in a male form – something like that, that’s a subtle Easter Egg.

MC: [laughs agreeably] That would be a very interesting scene to write.
I love you Mike Carey! I must have your babies! :D

[Faded]

Wow...I giggled immensely reading his evaluation of Bobby!

He used more '...' than I do!

[Beast]

As I said elsewhere:

Great follow-up portion of the interview. Love Mike Carey's ideas for Iceman. It definatly fits with his character. And I also would adore Carey forever to see the Bobby and Male Raven scene in an issue sometime. I don't care how they have to slip it in, I think it's totally in character for Iceman after how he's been written for decades. Go Mike!

And it's even greater to know that Mike loves Dark Beast. Hopefully if/when he gets Hank he'll do a storyline along those lines. Frankly given his character development in Excalibur he'd almost serve Creed's role fairly well if Mike went that route. Someone having to work with the X-Men to protect his own ass from being killed by Mr. Sinister.

[proteus]

LWW: As soon as you said there was going to be romantic developments with Mystique it put ideas into my mind. I like the idea of Iceman being this kind of closet bisexual that readers know more about than anyone else, more than his team-mates. I imagine the kind of scene where you’ve got Iceman leaving the bedroom and there’s Mystique in bed, laying there in a male form – something like that, that’s a subtle Easter Egg.

MC: [laughs agreeably] That would be a very interesting scene to write.

Eww. That would be disgusting. I really hope he doesn't ruin Bobby like that.

[Beast]

Eww. That would be disgusting. I really hope he doesn't ruin Bobby like that.
That would not be disgusting. That would be great. Bobby loves it all. :D

And how exactly would it be ruining Bobby? How does making him gay, bi, or what have you ruin him?

[caney]

Wow, that was a cool interview. I'm very interested to see what's going on with Mystique that makes her attracted Bobby. I've speculated on this before, but it will be cool to finally see how Carey makes this relationship play out.

[We R. Venom]

Eww. That would be disgusting. I really hope he doesn't ruin Bobby like that.

If your a real Iceman fan, I think your taking the wrong ideas about all this. I dont think Bobby will be ruined at all. Well i guess you can think that way if you like.

[Faded]

As I said elsewhere:

Great follow-up portion of the interview. Love Mike Carey's ideas for Iceman. It definatly fits with his character. And I also would adore Carey forever to see the Bobby and Male Raven scene in an issue sometime. I don't care how they have to slip it in, I think it's totally in character for Iceman after how he's been written for decades. Go Mike!

Right? I think I'd settle for Bobby even kissing Raven in male form.

Eww. That would be disgusting. I really hope he doesn't ruin Bobby like that.

I could understand being offended by the kinkiness of it (there is a certain loss of innocence in that); I just hope to Bob you aren't saying homosexuality is disgusting.

[Beast]

Right? I think I'd settle for Bobby even kissing Raven in male form.
I'd take that also. Hell, any teases of the fact that Bobby isn't constrained by gender.
I could understand being offended by the kinkiness of it (there is a certain loss of innocence in that); I just hope to Bob you aren't saying homosexuality is disgusting.
From said person's other comments, I would think it would be the second reason.

[We R. Venom]

I really hope he keeps Iceman on the team and let's go of Cannonball. I like the character but i realy am not about to pick Sam over Bobby within Carey's writing. I dont think id be buying an X-men comic if Bobby wasnt in it. Matter of fact il buy whatever comic he is in, Carey or no.

[Beast]

I really hope he keeps Iceman on the team and let's go of Cannonball. I like the character but i realy am not about to pick Sam over Bobby within Carey's writing. I dont think id be buying an X-men comic if Bobby wasnt in it. Matter of fact il buy whatever comic he is in, Carey or no.
Agreed. Mike really needs to keep Rogue and Iceman. He's finally done both characters some justice after so many years. So to see them go to someone else who would probably dump on them again would be sad. :(

[We R. Venom]

Agreed. Mike really needs to keep Rogue and Iceman. He's finally done both characters some justice after so many years. So to see them go to someone else who would probably dump on them again would be sad. :(

Hmm, thats true as well. I mean the other X-writers are very good too. I just... don't trust them is all. Like, not even a little. To finally have a writer that has made these two characters(Bobbry and Rogue) so damn great after Milligan and whatever else is amazing and he should keep going till like 2010. Besides, I think Cannonball would be a great Uncanny X-man. Karima messed his head up anyway, so he is about due to talk to the Prof. :rolleyes:

[caney]

I really hope he keeps Iceman on the team and let's go of Cannonball. I like the character but i realy am not about to pick Sam over Bobby within Carey's writing. I dont think id be buying an X-men comic if Bobby wasnt in it. Matter of fact il buy whatever comic he is in, Carey or no.

I'd love to see both Iceman and Mystique stay on with Carey's group. Unfortunately, Carey losing some of his characters could be out of his hands. I imagine the editors will allow the new Astonishing writer to pick the characters they want, as that's the highest-selling highest-profile X-book. I guess it wouldn't bad if Iceman were in that book though. I just don't want him to fall into limbo again.

At least we have a year's worth of issues until the changes happen. :)

[We R. Venom]

I hope thats not the case. That wouldnt be fair. Cary pretty much brought Iceman back from hell. He picked this team, so he should decide if he is ready to give them up. F*** Astonishing. lol sorry. I do hope the AStonishing writer/s gets to pick a great team(just not Bobby), but if he/she aint as good as the previous team then theres no point because the sales will go down anyway.

[Faded]

I really hope he keeps Iceman on the team and let's go of Cannonball. I like the character but i realy am not about to pick Sam over Bobby within Carey's writing. I dont think id be buying an X-men comic if Bobby wasnt in it. Matter of fact il buy whatever comic he is in, Carey or no.

I predict that's exactly what is going to happen. Of course Rogue is staying, but Carey's also expressed interest in her relationship with Mystique. With Mystique, comes Bobby, who has connections to Carey's other favorites (and member hopefuls) Northstar and Beast. I think that three would provide the most dynamic potential.

Cannonball hasn't really broken out so while I like him, I won't be sad to see him move to another team (but boy, he's been shifted around quite a lot lately).

[Toboe]

Thanks for the link, Beast! Loved the interview, especially all the hints he gave about Iceman's sexuality, what he does with him shall be interesting. I really hope all three Rogue, Iceman and Cannonball stay on the team after the crossover, love the way Carey writes them. And Lady M must stay!!

[We R. Venom]

Hmm,w ell its a little ways off aint it. I guess the next arc and the annual is what i should focus on to get my mind off bads thoguht like Bobby leaving. Lady M is cool too. I love the character. Ugh, there is too much for the future. Varey always thinks ahead so much. Maybe its to ensure that he has a job with the X-men lol.

[claimtosubclaim]

Just don't let Brubaker get Bobby. He'll be limited to expository/stock dialogue like certain Uncanny characters right now. Bru's strength seems to be writing solo character books with a good supporting cast, so X-characters that he's not doing much justice to right now would probably work very well under a solo title written by him. No one's exactly begging for another solo X-title though. Those never go well.

While I don't want to see Bobby kissing a male Raven, and I'm one of the few who doesn't consider Bobby to be gay, despite all the "evidence", Mike's take on his character is definitely intriguing, and I'm open to whatever his plans are. After 195, I think it's safe to say that I'm digging everyone (besides Cable) on the team now. Condition Critical will probably change my mind about Cable though.

[proteus]

From said person's other comments, I would think it would be the second reason.

I just don't want Bobby to be gay. Simple as that. I don't see why some posters are so obssesed with him being made homosexual. It gives no development to his character and would come out of left filed just for shock value. He has had relationships with women, and has never shown any signs of being attracted to men. And I have never seen any signs of that throughout his history. Reading Careys interview for myself, it doesn't sound like he is going along with making Bobby gay.

[Beast]

I just don't want Bobby to be gay. Simple as that. I don't see why some posters are so obssesed with him being made homosexual. It gives no development to his character and would come out of left filed just for shock value. He has had relationships with women, and has never shown any signs of being attracted to men. And I have never seen any signs of that throughout his history. Reading Careys interview for myself, it doesn't sound like he is going along with making Bobby gay.
Because he's already homosexual. Or bisexual as the case may be. It's not for shock value when it's just an aspect of who the character already is. So no, it's hardly out of left field. As for relationships with women? So what? A lot of closeted gay men who can't face what they are do the exact same thing. They also often unconsciously sabotage those relationships because they arn't fulfilling to what they need. And there's been plenty of signs and hints throught his history. And actually if you read Carey's interview, he actually notes that Bobby is Bisexual. He loves the pole as much as he loves the taco. As they say. :D

[dreyson]

I don't understand why people think Iceman is gay. He's clearly not.

I hope that Rogue, Iceman, Cannonball, Lady Mastermind and Mystique stay on the team. Cable can go along with Karima.

[claimtosubclaim]

There wasn't really much gay sentiment towards Bobby from fans until Northstar showed up, which is weird because Bobby didn't show the slightest interest in him. Mostly wishful thinking on fans parts. Like I said, I think he's straight, but if Mike wants to play the ambiguous or bi angle, whatever. Mike said before that he wasn't going to write Bobby as explicitly gay, but that his sexuality would be addressed. Psychosexual development is a bigger and more complex issue regarding a person's sexual developent than just "straight or gay".

[Beast]

I don't understand why people think Iceman is gay. He's clearly not.
You mean, he clearly is. You should fix your quote. :D

[claimtosubclaim]

Because he's already homosexual. Or bisexual as the case may be. It's not for shock value when it's just an aspect of who the character already is. So no, it's hardly out of left field. As for relationships with women? So what? A lot of closeted gay men who can't face what they are do the exact same thing. They also often unconsciously sabotage those relationships because they arn't fulfilling to what they need. And there's been plenty of signs and hints throught his history. And actually if you read Carey's interview, he actually notes that Bobby is Bisexual. He loves the pole as much as he loves the taco. As they say. :D

He's way more likely bisexual than simply homosexual, because his history depicts a genuine affection for Opal and Lorna, among other women.

[Christopher O]

He's way more likely bisexual than simply homosexual, because his history depicts a genuine affection for Opal and Lorna, among other women.
Most closeted men in relationships with women have genuine affection for them. That isn't unusual.

[proteus]

Because he's already homosexual. Or bisexual as the case may be. It's not for shock value when it's just an aspect of who the character already is. So no, it's hardly out of left field. As for relationships with women? So what? A lot of closeted gay men who can't face what they are do the exact same thing. They also often unconsciously sabotage those relationships because they arn't fulfilling to what they need. And there's been plenty of signs and hints throught his history. And actually if you read Carey's interview, he actually notes that Bobby is Bisexual. He loves the pole as much as he loves the taco. As they say. :D



You keep saying with certainty that Bobby is gay, or homosexual, or that it's apart of his character. Well, not imo. I've never seen anyone who writes an X comic actual state that or had the character act like he is so until then, he is not any of those things imo.

[claimtosubclaim]

Most closeted men in relationships with women have genuine affection for them. That isn't unusual.

That doesn't really disprove my point. And I meant a genuine romantic affection.

[Omega Alpha]

I just don't want Bobby to be gay. Simple as that. I don't see why some posters are so obssesed with him being made homosexual. It gives no development to his character and would come out of left filed just for shock value. He has had relationships with women, and has never shown any signs of being attracted to men. And I have never seen any signs of that throughout his history. Reading Careys interview for myself, it doesn't sound like he is going along with making Bobby gay.

Carey said in a previous interview that he could see Bobby in a homosexual relationship and enjoying it, and doesn't consider it to be out of character.

And i don't want Bobby to be gay (or don't want him to be), but i think he already is and should get out of the closet already.

There wasn't really much gay sentiment towards Bobby from fans until Northstar showed up, /QUOTE]

Yes, it did. Ever since the 80's, at least.

[QUOTE=claimtosubclaim;4308928]He's way more likely bisexual than simply homosexual, because his history depicts a genuine affection for Opal and Lorna, among other women.

It's doubtful. Bobby and Opal were clearly not going anywhere, and that's why Bobby went into a relationship with her in the first place, and Lorna is one of the many women emotionallly unavailable he is or was after. In Austen's run, he was clearly going after her more as competition with Alex than anything else.

You keep saying with certainty that Bobby is gay, or homosexual, or that it's apart of his character. Well, not imo. I've never seen anyone who writes an X comic actual state that or had the character act like he is so until then, he is not any of those things imo.

Like i said, Carey thinks he's gay or bi. And i don't remember, for example, Lobdell, saying that he wasn't writing him as gay (or that he was), and even so, it doesn't mean that some of his actions can't be interpreted as something else.

[Beast]

That doesn't really disprove my point. And I meant a genuine romantic affection.
That doesn't prove your point either. See how this works? :D

[claimtosubclaim]

That doesn't prove your point either. See how this works? :D

It does prove my point of him possibly being bisexual. Anyway, I'm just going to say that Mike's theory is more accurate than ours.

"I think it’s an interesting topic … how can I put this … I’ve got plans for Bobby which conflict with him coming out as gay. I do think he probably is a character who … you know the theory that everyone is basically bisexual, and social pressures force you to come down on one side or the other? I do see Bobby as someone who’s probably polymorphously perverse and turned on by … by …

Most things?

Most thing, yes! It’s kind of like an unspoken beat, really. There’s never been a story thread exploring it but some of the decisions Iceman has made about his love life have almost seemed to push him that way but then he’s always pulled back. I know the scene people are referencing here, when Sam carries Bobby to the infirmary – so you’ve got one guy holding another guy naked in his arms. But that follows directly on from the immensely erotic kiss of life that Mystique gives Bobby. I think it’s cool to think of Bobby as someone who’s capable of being attracted to men and women, but it’s the Bobby-Mystique thing I’m more interested in right now."

[proteus]

I don't understand why people think Iceman is gay. He's clearly not.


ITA. It makes no sense to me.

[Beast]

ITA. It makes no sense to me.
Read him in New Defenders. You'll see why.

[claimtosubclaim]

The jokes Bobby makes could put him on either side of the fence, including the dating Beast bit. Don't you guys remember high school? Making sexually ambiguous quips were the norm.

[Beast]

The jokes Bobby makes could put him on either side of the fence, including the dating Beast bit. Don't you guys remember high school? Making sexually ambiguous quips were the norm.
That with the Cloud business and everything else that's gone on with the character from the beginning build a really strong case. And no, it wasn't the norm. It seems more like a testing of the waters to me. :)

[claimtosubclaim]

That with the Cloud business and everything else that's gone on with the character from the beginning build a really strong case. And no, it wasn't the norm. It seems more like a testing of the waters to me. :)

Nah, I know blatantly straight guys who made more of those jokes than could be imagined. I did my fair share of it, and I'm not attracted to men. So it's just from what I've seen and experienced that I theorize. The apple could fall either way, and neither side is more proof than the other.

Okay, I'll admit though the Cloud thing could be taken as a big hint.

[Brett P]

. And actually if you read Carey's interview, he actually notes that Bobby is Bisexual. He loves the pole as much as he loves the taco. As they say. :D

He doesn't say that he IS, he said he thinks it would be cool to SEE Bobby as someone who could be attracted to men AND women. He can't "note" something that isn't fact.

I don't understand why people think Iceman is gay. He's clearly not.


I agree. And with Northstar (long established), Karma (long established) and Anole (with hundreds of students, there's bound to be atleast a couple that were gay and was a nice follow up on Austen having Xavier recruit Northstar for his "unique situation" and as a role model)...do we really need ANOTHER gay character in the X institute? It starts to make it a little redundant. Maybe that would be a good thing - it being seen as nothing out of the ordinary, but for me, it takes away the unique aspect of those already exisiting. And then theres Wiccan, Hulkling and Karolina, Flat Man (?) and whoever else is kicking around the Marvel U (plus X-Statix already did the "in denial" thing with Phat as opposed to the out and proud also gay Vivisector in the same book and Bloke from the preceeding X-Force run...)

There wasn't really much gay sentiment towards Bobby from fans until Northstar showed up, which is weird because Bobby didn't show the slightest interest in him. Mostly wishful thinking on fans parts.

Yeh, I think his involvement under Austen was mostly to showcase Northstars situation, unrequited crushes and how some guys (like Bobby) may be uncomfortable around a guy when they find out he' gay...but eventually realise they can get on with them and care form them as much as the next person (as seen by Bobby's appearance and words at the funeral in the Northstar death/memorial issue of New X-Men (Academy X) #13). But I mean, there were hints that Bobby might have been in denial, if you wanted to see them I guess. But it's just one writers vision.

[Omega Alpha]

I agree. And with Northstar (long established), Karma (long established) and Anole (with hundreds of students, there's bound to be atleast a couple that were gay and was a nice follow up on Austen having Xavier recruit Northstar for his "unique situation" and as a role model)...do we really need ANOTHER gay character in the X institute? It starts to make it a little redundant.

So, we shouldn't have another gay character in the Institute because it's redundant with 3 of them, with none being regulars in any X-book, but to have another straight character is not, when there's dozens of them? :rolleyes:



Maybe that would be a good thing - it being seen as nothing out of the ordinary, but for me, it takes away the unique aspect of those already exisiting. And then theres Wiccan, Hulkling and Karolina, Flat Man (?) and whoever else is kicking around the Marvel U (plus X-Statix already did the "in denial" thing with Phat as opposed to the out and proud also gay Vivisector in the same book and Bloke from the preceeding X-Force run...)

Again, it becomes redundant when you have 10 gays in the MU, but to have thousands of straight characters it's not? As long as the "gay quota" is filled, we shouldn't have more?:rolleyes: Being gay is not unique in the real world, and if 10% of the population is, why it's a bad thing to have more than half a dozen gay characters in the MU?

[Christopher O]

do we really need ANOTHER gay character in the X institute? It starts to make it a little redundant.
Do you consider all the heterosexual characters to be redundant? This is seriously one of the most absurd points I've heard regarding this particular argument.

[Beast]

Do you consider all the heterosexual characters to be redundant? This is seriously one of the most absurd points I've heard regarding this particular argument.
Agreed. It's right up there with how being gay somehow ruins characters. :rolleyes:

[claimtosubclaim]

Agreed. It's right up there with how being gay somehow ruins characters. :rolleyes:

I think it's fine with Northstar, Anole, Rictor, Hulkling, that girl from Runaways, etc.

With Iceman, it's a split issue though, because of differing viewpoints and 40 something years of history. Some people say that all evidence points to him being gay, and others say it points to him being straight. It's all slanted due to our biases and what we think constitutes hetero or homosexual behavior, be it blatant or subliminal. What makes you more correct than I, or vice versa? Clearly not because you say so. He's liked women who were unavailable, he's made ambiguous sexual jokes, etc. That describes the average straight male. At the same time, they could be signs of him being gay. With his psychological profile, Bobby could fall on either side of the coin. And I think Mike is too genius of a writer to have that coin land with head or tail up.

[Beast]

I think it's fine with Northstar, Anole, Rictor, Hulkling, that girl from Runaways, etc.

With Iceman, it's a split issue though, because of differing viewpoints and 40 something years of history. Some people say that all evidence points to him being gay, and others say it points to him being straight. It's all slanted due to our biases and what we think constitutes hetero or homosexual behavior, be it blatant or subliminal. What makes you more correct than I, or vice versa? Clearly not because you say so. He's liked women who were unavailable, he's made ambiguous sexual jokes, etc. That describes the average straight male. At the same time, they could be signs of him being gay. With his psychological profile, Bobby could fall on either side of the coin. And I think Mike is too genius of a writer to have that coin land with head or tail up.
In other words.... he's bisexual. Which has been the whole point.

[claimtosubclaim]

In other words.... he's bisexual. Which has been the whole point.

Yeah, that. Or unspecified.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

master thespian Adam Carolla said it best, to paraphrase:

"When a man says he is bi-sexual, that's just him saying bye bye to Heterosexuality and hello to gay"

Iceman is completely gay.

[proteus]

master thespian Adam Carolla said it best, to paraphrase:

"When a man says he is bi-sexual, that's just him saying bye bye to Heterosexuality and hello to gay"

Iceman is completely gay.

Iceman has never claimed to be bi or gay, and no writer has either.

[We R. Venom]

Hmm that is true. We shall see what happens. Some people are just obsessed though.:D

[Nyssane]

master thespian Adam Carolla said it best, to paraphrase:

"When a man says he is bi-sexual, that's just him saying bye bye to Heterosexuality and hello to gay"

Iceman is completely gay.

Bleh, I hate that theory that bisexuality doesn't exist. I believe some people can love men and women equally. My friend constantly disagrees, but I don't think it is anyone's place to say that something simply cannot exist. Sexuality is too complex to ever say that you're either straight or gay.

[ProfeZZor X]

Read him in New Defenders. You'll see why.

Even before New Defenders, he was showing interest in Lorna and Darkstar. That didn't go well, and he eventually met Cloud. When he found out about Cloud's gender, he expressed that he was uncomfortable with it, and they broke up. There was no on or off panel indication that they had sex either, nor was there any follow up reference in later years that he missed Cloud either, so this is a moot point.

Shortly after, he was interested in Infectia - but she only wanted one thing from the relationship, so it ended. Then came his time with Opal, which seemed steady for a while, but she was tired of his superhero lifestyle (his dream killer) and they ended it. There was a little flirtation with Emma for a short time, then came Nurse Annie, and then Lorna again. Then, there was the other woman he pursued after learning Northstar had feelings for him. Eventually he came full circle with Lorna again.

There was even a time when Lorna said Bobby was "inexperienced" in the sexual department (assuming this was when they first dated.)

So I find it very hard to see where any material related to him being homosexual or bi-sexual ever came into this mix.

But hey, the damage is done now (thanks to Mike), so no need to cry over spilled milk... :o

[jarrod]

Bleh, I hate that theory that bisexuality doesn't exist. I believe some people can love men and women equally. My friend constantly disagrees, but I don't think it is anyone's place to say that something simply cannot exist. Sexuality is too complex to ever say that you're either straight or gay.
Same can be said of gender, the binary yes/no ethic we tend to push on sexual classifications doesn't always work. Given the proper environment and circumstances, I think most of the X-Men might probably engage in same-sex play honestly.

That said, claiming "bi-sexulaity" has traditionally been used as sort of gateway classification for lots of young homosexuals, due to insecurities or pressures.... as if it's more acceptable or seen as something of a compromise. Nothing wrong with that really, I've more issues to the generally preservationist, dissmissive homosexual response to it really.

[ProfeZZor X]

It's not specified that any of the X-Men are getting laid on a regular basis anyway, besides Storm and Cyclops... So who's to say anyone is gay or straight, just because we don't see it on panel.... regardless of ongoing or failed relationships.

[Brett P]

Do you consider all the heterosexual characters to be redundant? This is seriously one of the most absurd points I've heard regarding this particular argument.


Agreed. It's right up there with how being gay somehow ruins characters. :rolleyes:



So, we shouldn't have another gay character in the Institute because it's redundant with 3 of them, with none being regulars in any X-book, but to have another straight character is not, when there's dozens of them? :rolleyes:


Here's the thing. With the aforementioned characters, they're gay and we know it. It isn't a big deal, it doesn't really play much of a part in their characters, which is good and how it should be - it's organic and naturally a part of their characters.

But with this iceman thing you've all got this big obsession with iceman being made gay and coming out - and if this happened it would be a BIG revelation to the character and it'd be pretty lost on me 'cos I'd just think SO WHAT? Join the club! You're right it's not unique - so why bother making Iceman gay too?


Again, it becomes redundant when you have 10 gays in the MU, but to have thousands of straight characters it's not? As long as the "gay quota" is filled, we shouldn't have more?:rolleyes:

I don't necessarily feel that way, the Iceman thing kinda irked me a bit is all - I'd be fine with any new characters coming along who just happened to be gay, or, if it was just something that came up matter of fact for an established character, like Sunfire from Exiles or the Rictor and Madrox conversation. It's all a bit too conveniant if Iceman was suddenly to be revealed as gay is all - "Hey Jean-Paul, I know I've always been with women in the past but GUESS WHAT?!" Why make someone gay for the sake of having another gay character?

Being gay is not unique in the real world, and if 10% of the population is, why it's a bad thing to have more than half a dozen gay characters in the MU?

Just because (supposedely) 10% of the population is gay, doesn't mean 10% of the super hero community should be too. Like the whole Teddy/Billy situation is SO conveniant "oh look, we both have super powers, are both tied to Avengers history, end up on the same team AND we're both gay!"

I don't have a problem with it, maybe I'm coming across as narrow minded but being gay myself I'm hardly anti the idea of more gay characters, so long as it's done right and isn't there just for shock value or to appeal to certain fans. It needs to be organic and feel authentic.

[Sentinel K]

<snip>

I don't have a problem with it, maybe I'm coming across as narrow minded but being gay myself I'm hardly anti the idea of more gay characters, so long as it's done right and isn't there just for shock value or to appeal to certain fans. It needs to br organic and feel authentic.

Dude, I'm with you.

That was well put.

[Omega Alpha]

Here's the thing. With the aforementioned characters, they're gay and we know it. It isn't a big deal, it doesn't really play much of a part in their characters, which is good and how it should be - it's organic and naturally a part of their characters.

But with this iceman thing you've all got this big obsession with iceman being made gay and coming out - and if this happened it would be a BIG revelation to the character and it'd be pretty lost on me 'cos I'd just think SO WHAT? Join the club! You're right it's not unique - so why bother making Iceman be gay too?


We don't have an obsession with Iceman being gay, we just think he is. You're the one obsessed about Iceman NOT being gay. And why bother make Iceman straight too?




I don't necessarily feel that way, the Iceman thing kinda irked me a bit is all - I'd be fine with any new characters coming along who just happened to be gay, or, if it was just something that came up matter of fact, like Sunfire from Exiles or the Rictor and Madrox conversation. It's all a bit too conveniant if Iceman was suddenly to be revealed as gay is all - "Hey Jean-Paul, GUESS WHAT?!" Why make someone gay for the sake of having another gay character?

Why make a straight character for the sake of having another straight character? And no one is asking for Iceman to become gay, he already is, in our opinion, and all we're asking is for him to get out of the closet?




Just because (supposedely) 10% of the population is gay, doesn't mean 10% of the super hero community should be too.

Yes, it could very well be that 20% of the super hero community is gay. Maybe 30 or 40%? Or 2% or 3%? But you are implying that there shouldn't be more gay heroes, like that was a problem.


Like the whole Teddy/Billy situation is SO conveniant "oh look, we both have super powers, are both tied to Avengers history, end up on the same team AND we're both gay!"

So, if one of them were a girl and both straight, you wouldn't have a problem? Or if one or two weren't gay, wouldn't be very convenient for them to have superpowers, tied to Avengers history and end up on the same team?



I don't have a problem with it, maybe I'm coming across as narrow minded but being gay myself I'm hardly anti the idea of more gay characters, so long as it's done right and isn't there just for shock value or to appeal to certain fans. It needs to br organic and feel authentic.

As it feels with Iceman being gay, because there is already plenty of hints that me might be.

[claimtosubclaim]

There are also plenty of "hints" that he's straight. That's probably why. You've no more reason to argue a point than the other side.

[Brett P]

We don't have an obsession with Iceman being gay, we just think he is. You're the one obsessed about Iceman NOT being gay. And why bother make Iceman straight too?
Why make a straight character for the sake of having another straight character? And no one is asking for Iceman to become gay, he already is, in our opinion, and all we're asking is for him to get out of the closet?



He was CREATED straight. Unlike the other mentioned characters. Why change it now? What does it achieve?



Yes, it could very well be that 20% of the super hero community is gay. Maybe 30 or 40%? Or 2% or 3%? But you are implying that there shouldn't be more gay heroes, like that was a problem.



So, if one of them were a girl and both straight, you wouldn't have a problem? Or if one or two weren't gay, wouldn't be very convenient for them to have superpowers, tied to Avengers history and end up on the same team?




As it feels with Iceman being gay, because there is already plenty of hints that me might be.




*sigh* Iceman was created as straight. He's always been written as pursuing women. I seriosuly doubt they're doing that just becasue they think he's "in denial". Maybe he COULD be BISEXUAL. Maybe. But If you guys wanna convince yourself the character is gay, when he's blatantly not then knock yourselves out but I'm here to talk about comics, not to get involved in attempts to appease peoples inadequacy or argue about equal rights or "gay equality". I really couldn't care less about that to be honest.

[Steven F.]

I don't think Iceman is gay at all.

[Sentinel K]

I don't really care if he is or isn't.

It's such a pointless arguement that just goes round and round in circles.

And the only way it will ever end is if he comes out.

After all, even if he says 'I am definitely straight', the 'gay-Bobby' fans still won't take the hint.

[jarrod]

He was CREATED straight. Unlike the other mentioned characters. Why change it now? What does it achieve?
I dunno, what does diverging from a creation based character definition ever achieve?

Personally, I think Bobby should still look like snowball. This "ice" thing is pretty clearly just the writers giving in to a vocal fan minority and it directly contradicts any previous appearances. He was CREATED snow-Bobby after all, why change it?

[Sentinel K]

I dunno, what does diverging from a creation based character definition ever achieve?

Personally, I think Bobby should still look like snowball. This "ice" thing is pretty clearly just the writers giving in to a vocal fan minority and it directly contradicts any previous appearances. He was CREATED snow-Bobby after all, why change it?

Learning to advance and be creative with ones abilities really isn't the same as changing ones sexuality.

[Joe Zool]

*throws gasoline on the flames*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d06hK3YHytI

[Joe Zool]

Seriously, though, you guys do know there are other interesting things in the interview, right?

Like the fact that it seems that Cable may be sticking around for longer than we orginally thought and that Carey is really intent on exploring the relationship between Rogue and Mystique. I really want to see how that plays out.

[jarrod]

Learning to advance and be creative with ones abilities really isn't the same as changing ones sexuality.
Learning to explore and be honset with ones sexuality really isn't the same as changing ones appearance. Er, wait, what?

[Beast]

Learning to advance and be creative with ones abilities really isn't the same as changing ones sexuality.
But most of us don't see it as a change. Just a natural development of his character.

[Sentinel K]

Learning to explore and be creative with ones sexuality really isn't the same as changing ones appearance. Er, wait, what?

Good comeback. :D

The thing is, we haven't seen Bobby WANT to 'explore' or be 'creative' with his sexuality let alone actually BE 'creative'.

If Carey, or anyone else wishes to introduce these facets into his personality and character then fair enough. If it makes sense and gives Bobby a cool storyline then I'm for it an I'll eagerly read it.

But as it stands, all the people, who are pushing 'Gay-bobby' on us, have to go on is some pretty dubious 'evidence'.

[Brian M.]

Izeman butter not catch "the gay"...he rulz.

[ProfeZZor X]

I dunno, what does diverging from a creation based character definition ever achieve?

Personally, I think Bobby should still look like snowball. This "ice" thing is pretty clearly just the writers giving in to a vocal fan minority and it directly contradicts any previous appearances. He was CREATED snow-Bobby after all, why change it?


Why change his dirty underwear?

Why Brush his teeth?

Why eat food?

Why?.... Because these are things that he does on a daily basis.

Someone can't just wake up after 40 years and say "You know, I feel like being gay for the rest of my life".

[Joe Zool]

Everytime Iceman's sexuality is mentioned, a kitty cries.

http://themes.myqth.com/Wallpaper/Kitty%20Wallpaper.jpg

[Beast]

Someone can't just wake up after 40 years and say "You know, I feel like being gay for the rest of my life".
Actually that does happen. It happens more than you think.

[Sentinel K]

But most of us don't see it as a change. Just a natural development of his character.

But when it comes to non-deviant sexuality one can only be one of three things:

Hetero-sexual
Bi-Sexual
Homo-sexual.

Seeing as though people are generally taken as hetero-sexual until they state otherwise or their actions say otherwise, its fair to say that Bobby is heterosexual. On Panel (which is all that counts) he's never stated he's gay and he's never partaken in gay intercourse.

Now a storyline in the future COULD develop Bobby from realizing he has homosexual thoughts and moving on to realizing his bi/gay and then havinga relationship. But that is something that HASN'T happened. Yet.

So basically he's in the default postion of being straight. Like he has been for 40 years.

[Christopher O]

But with this iceman thing you've all got this big obsession with iceman being made gay and coming out
Big obsession? Please, exaggerate a little more.

- and if this happened it would be a BIG revelation to the character and it'd be pretty lost on me 'cos I'd just think SO WHAT? Join the club! You're right it's not unique - so why bother making Iceman gay too?
Why not? Some of us think some interesting stories could from exploring Bobby's sexuality.

I don't have a problem with it, maybe I'm coming across as narrow minded but being gay myself I'm hardly anti the idea of more gay characters, so long as it's done right and isn't there just for shock value or to appeal to certain fans. It needs to be organic and feel authentic.
Some people feel that a story involving Bobby coming out of the closet would be organic and authentic. You don't, which is absolutely fine, but what I can't understand is why you and others go out of your way to dismiss and insult those who do find the progression of Bobby's character to be similar to that of many closeted gay men. Yeah, we know that Bobby wasn't created gay. Yeah, we understand that it was probably not the intention of any writer to make him gay. So what? An unintentional pattern has formed throughout the course of his development, and some of us would like for it to be explored.

I'm here to talk about comics, not to get involved in attempts to appease peoples inadequacy
That's probably for the best. I'm sure you have plenty of your own to worry about.

[Pro]

I don't understand why people think Iceman is gay. He's clearly not.

Of course not, he's bisexual with an obsession for women he can't have.
He avoids his potential attraction to men because he doesn't want to be bi and at the same time picks women who will eventually dump him.

But then this is not the Iceman is Gay thread so i'll leave it at that ;p.

[Brian M.]

See I don't think he's gay...mainly b/c we've seen him w/ women plenty of times and the character himself has never even given it another thought...I maybe wrong but I'm pretty sure there isn't an issue where Bobby even glances at the twig and berries.

Now will I be upset if he turns out gay? No. It's not like he's married or in committed relationship, he's been out of the dating world for a while so it could work. Do I think there are more stories to tell w/ Gay Bobby then Straight Bobby...no b/c a relationship is a relationship.

I'd rather see his powers explored more, his reaction to his expanding powers then see when bump uglies with guy, girl, donkey, horse, dead body or tree.

[jarrod]

Good comeback. :D

The thing is, we haven't seen Bobby WANT to 'explore' or be 'creative' with his sexuality let alone actually BE 'creative'.

If Carey, or anyone else wishes to introduce these facets into his personality and character then fair enough. If it makes sense and gives Bobby a cool storyline then I'm for it an I'll eagerly read it.

But as it stands, all the people, who are pushing 'Gay-bobby' on us, have to go on is some pretty dubious 'evidence'.
Really, I don't care much either way... Bobby tends to be painfully dull and I doubt any admission of sexual preference would swing my interest much. I bet Carey could do a decent job of it though.

I just couldn't let the CREATION counter-argument go. Comics are a serial medium with a fluid creative structure... arguing against change simply because that's how IT WAS CREATED strikes as nothing but ignorant in the face of that.

[Pro]

I'd rather see his powers explored more, his reaction to his expanding powers then see when bump uglies with guy, girl, donkey, horse, dead body or tree.

mmm... trees .. so pretty .. the lushious green leaves, the rough bark, the stiff erect trunks ..

.. ehem ..

Carry on, carry on, i need a walk through the park ..

[Brian M.]

mmm... trees .. so pretty .. the lushious green leaves, the rough bark, the stiff erect trunks ..

.. ehem ..

Carry on, carry on, i need a walk through the park ..

Na...how about you go walk in the desert, stay away from any trees...

[Brian M.]

Another thing is I think if you do a story about Bobby being gay your gonna have to have the obligatory team reaction plot in it. Now in order to make it interesting your not gonna have everyone jump for joy and be nothing but excited and happy about it. More then likely someone close to Bobby will be hurt and hateful towards Bobby's new stance, making that person a homophobe, a bigot whatever. I think doing that will just hurt an existing character.

Say you do make Bobby gay and bi...what do you then? Do you hook him up with someone right away? Do you have him join a dating service? What's to be done? It seems to me if you don't hook him up w/ someone after coming out, you've wasted the time of the reader.

Now I guess I could see maybe over the course of the next couple of years, introduce a new character and have that character be gay, have him start to work on Bobby and maybe they start an affair, whatever. I think then, when he has someone, would be the right time to out him. Otherwise...what's the point?

[ProfeZZor X]

This issue seems like one of those "Ah ha!!!.... I told you so" moments, once it's been cleared up.... I can see it now.

... And believe me, the gloating will happen. :rolleyes:

[Omega Alpha]

He was CREATED straight.

That's irrelevant. Storm is bi but wasn't created like that. Magneto wasn't created as a survivor of the Holocaust. Mr. Sinister wasn't created as a Victorian scientist. Wolverine wasn't created as a 100 year old samurai.








*sigh* Iceman was created as straight.

Again, irrelevant.


He's always been written as pursuing women.

Women emotionally unavailable, or whom he knew he would never get anywhere.


I seriosuly doubt they're doing that just becasue they think he's "in denial".

Well, that's what i think.


But If you guys wanna convince yourself the character is gay, when he's blatantly not then knock yourselves out but I'm here to talk about comics, not to get involved in attempts to appease peoples inadequacy or argue about equal rights or "gay equality". I really couldn't care less about that to be honest.

Now you're just whining like a little girl.

Another thing is I think if you do a story about Bobby being gay your gonna have to have the obligatory team reaction plot in it. Now in order to make it interesting your not gonna have everyone jump for joy and be nothing but excited and happy about it. More then likely someone close to Bobby will be hurt and hateful towards Bobby's new stance, making that person a homophobe, a bigot whatever. I think doing that will just hurt an existing character.

Say you do make Bobby gay and bi...what do you then? Do you hook him up with someone right away? Do you have him join a dating service? What's to be done? It seems to me if you don't hook him up w/ someone after coming out, you've wasted the time of the reader.


The point is Iceman is gay already, and we're just asking him to get out of the closet, no one is saying he "should be made gay". And, if written well, it won't hurt any character. And, anyway, you're asking for things to stay the same for fear of change only.

[Brian M.]

Where is the proof?

Where has he EVER been show to be attracted to men?

Picking up women whom "he knows he'll lose with" is just a crap arguement. Some people just have bad taste in women, doesn't mean they are gay.

I've had plenty of bad luck with girls, doesn't mean I'm gay. I just don't see the proof, any at all, any at all even hinting that he's gay. So Northstar liked him, big deal.

I don't see how you can say ICEMAN IS GAY and prove it.

Also as for your comment that I'm afraid of change, no I'm not. I think I pointed out why I think making Bobby gay, at this junction is a bad idea.

[proteus]

This issue seems like one of those "Ah ha!!!.... I told you so" moments, once it's been cleared up.... I can see it now.

... And believe me, the gloating will happen. :rolleyes:


I wouldn't worry about it. Bobby is not gay or bi, no matter how much some want him to be for some odd reason.

[Beast]

I wouldn't worry about it. Bobby is not gay or bi, no matter how much some want him to be for some odd reason.
Well, the current writer of the character says otherwise. And that is consistant with the characters past characterization. So no matter how much you want to maintain the delusion that he's 100% straight, it's too late. But if it helps you to continue living in a fantasy world, have fun with that.

[proteus]

Well, the current writer of the character says otherwise. And that is consistant with the characters past characterization. So no matter how much you want to maintain the delusion that he's 100% straight, it's too late. But if it helps you to continue living in a fantasy world, have fun with that.

Mike Carey did not say he was gay or bi. You are just twisting what he says to support your theory. There is nothing constant with Bobby's past charateraztion to say he is gay no matter how many times you say he is. And thank goodness there is no sign of it ever in the comics. But yeah, twist things as much as you want but Bobby has only ever shown interest in women. So you're the one who needs to stop living in a fantasy world.

[We R. Venom]

Oh my god this is getting pathetic. "I want Iceman to be Gay." "I want Iceman to stay straight." Stop your obsessive crying, and babbling and just wait for it to be cleared up, cuz right now, both sides are wrong. Must you torment the rest of us with this crap daily?

[Pro]

And thank goodness there is no sign of it ever in the comics.

Why would you be glad "it's" not in the comics, what is it you are glad there is no sign of? Sounds like you just don't want a sign of homosexuality in a character you like because it would make him less fun for you personally, because you don't like homosexual characters because you think it would stereotype him to the point where you can't identify with him ..
Why else would you thank your lucky stars iceman isn't showing homosexual tendencies .. ?

[Pro]

Must you torment the rest of us with this crap daily?

It's fun seeing straight people bending over backwards to proof their favorite cahracter is not gay and to see gay posters trying to straighten them out :P

[ProfeZZor X]

I wonder if Mike ever peeks into topics like this...

[proteus]

Why would you be glad "it's" not in the comics, what is it you are glad there is no sign of? Sounds like you just don't want a sign of homosexuality in a character you like because it would make him less fun for you personally, because you don't like homosexual characters because you think it would stereotype him to the point where you can't identify with him ..
Why else would you thank your lucky stars iceman isn't showing homosexual tendencies .. ?

Here's a question. Why are so many of you obssessed with him being gay or bi? Do you want to see him kissing and sleeping with men? Why? To shock readers? To make a comic book more risky? I have no problem with gay characters but making a character who is straight gay all of a sudden just because some fans cooked up the theory because they thought it was funny or cool I have a problem with. The X-Men shouldn't be about "Lets see which characters we can make gay" to shock readers. I don't want Bobby Drake to be homosexual. Simple as that.

[Beast]

I wonder if Mike ever peeks into topics like this...
If I was him, it would only fuel me further to write Bobby as bi/gay. :D

[Sentinel K]

It's fun seeing straight people bending over backwards to proof their favorite cahracter is not gay and to see gay posters trying to straighten them out :P

I find it hilarious that so many gay posters are clutching at straws when it comes to Bobby possibly being gay.

Almost as if they can't think of anything else to talk about.

[Beast]

I find it hilarious that so many gay posters are clutching at straws when it comes to Bobby possibly being gay.

Almost as if they can't think of anything else to talk about.
Yeah, like the straight posters who have nothing better to do but stamp their feet and shout that he's not gay. That being gay somehow ruins his character. Hmmm, sounds familiar. Oh, I know... it's just like how the numerous Gay Colossus threads from the Ultimate forum turn out. ;)

[ProfeZZor X]

Well, the current writer of the character says otherwise. And that is consistant with the characters past characterization. So no matter how much you want to maintain the delusion that he's 100% straight, it's too late. But if it helps you to continue living in a fantasy world, have fun with that.

You and I see eye to eye on this one. It really doesn't matter how much either side complains on this issue at this point, because Mike Carey has already made up his mind what sexuality he wants Bobby to be.

...So we all need to move on.

[ProfeZZor X]

double post.

[jarrod]

Carey didn't so much say "bi" or "gay" so much as he did "horny". Reminds me of Claremont's "any port in the storm" comments about Wolverine.

[Sentinel K]

Yeah, like the straight posters who have nothing better to do but stamp their feet and shout that he's not gay. That being gay somehow ruins his character. Hmmm, sounds familiar. Oh, I know... it's just like how the numerous Gay Colossus threads from the Ultimate forum turn out. ;)

The fact is, the straight supporters are on firmer footing than the gay supporters what with him being written as NOT gay for the past 40 years.

The extremists on both sides are as bad as each other.

****ing crybabies.

[Pro]

Why are so many of you obssessed with him being gay or bi?

Why are you so obsessed with him being straight?

Do you want to see him kissing and sleeping with men? Why?

Why not? Comics are overflowing with heterosexual variations on that theme.

To shock readers?

Why ever would it shock people to see two men kiss unless said readers are homophobic?

I don't want Bobby Drake to be homosexual.

That's what i thought. Doesn't have squat to do with good or bad characterisation because obviously people, including the writers, disagree on what is good characterisation with regards to iceman's sexuality. You just don't want iceman to be gay for your own personal reasons.

Almost as if they can't think of anything else to talk about.

When it comes to iceman it seems both sides of the arguement can't find anything else to talk about but Iceman's sexuality (*remembers Iceman week*). I don't really care either way but i find it highly amusing seeing both sides in an uproar about something that really can go either way depending on the whims of writers and editors. HOnestly i can imagine writers not wanting to write iceman simply because it seems people are solely interested in his sexuality, whether the reader is straight or gay they just want him in "their camp".

And a big DUH for the one who mentioned there was no constant characterisation to proof iceman is gay/bi. How many writers and editors have written iceman, genius? Not to mention Iceman was invented in the
60's. You really think ANY character would have been written as gay in those days? Hell in those days you could run around in a glittery pink leotard and sing musicals all day and still be considered a fully straight male because there was no way any character COULD be written as gay. As far as the media and the general public was concerned gays did not exist. So really the argument that he has always been written as straight is just bull. He has always been written as straight because no one was allowed to write him as gay before. Even as shortly as a year ago Marvel still wouldn't let anyone write a gay character other than a sidecharacter who was never shown having an intimate relationship, let alone kiss someone of the same gender. Worse still the reasoning was that any show of homosexual tendencies was considered sexually provocative. Meanwhile when you're a heterosexual character apparently sleeping around, frenching on panel or running around barely dressed is not sexually provocative. Sure, whatever.

...So we all need to move on.

And with that the Iceman issue is buried (.. if only ..)

[Brian M.]

Yeah, like the straight posters who have nothing better to do but stamp their feet and shout that he's not gay. That being gay somehow ruins his character. Hmmm, sounds familiar. Oh, I know... it's just like how the numerous Gay Colossus threads from the Ultimate forum turn out. ;)

Come on now, I think I've been more than fair.

Making Bobby gay at this point does not make sense. Let the character show some ambiguity...spelling I know...then later on if it works, have him come out. But right now, I just don't see it.

[Beast]

HOnestly i can imagine writers not wanting to write iceman simply because it seems people are solely interested in his sexuality, whether the reader is straight or gay they just want him in "their camp".
Actually I don't just want him in "My Camp" as you say. I'm against revealing a character as gay where there's no evidence at all of it even being possible. In this case I think there's more than enough ambigous points in Bobby's history that you can hang such an idea off of. Same with Storm. Same with Rachel. Now characters like Professor X, Cyclops, Beast, Jean, Angel, Colossus, etc, etc. There's nothing ambigious about anything that we've seen them being written as in the 616. So I would be against any reveal that says that any of those characters were not straight. It just wouldn't fit the evidence at hand for them.

[Sentinel K]

Actually I don't just want him in "My Camp" as you say. I'm against revealing a character as gay where there's no evidence at all of it even being possible. In this case I think there's more than enough ambigous points in Bobby's history that you can hang such an idea off of. Same with Storm. Same with Rachel. Now characters like Professor X, Cyclops, Beast, Jean, Angel, Colossus, etc, etc. There's nothing ambigious about anything that we've seen them being written as in the 616. So I would be against any reveal that says that any of those characters were not straight. It just wouldn't fit the evidence at hand for them.

Same here. I don't want him in 'my camp'.

I just want good writing and good stories that make sense.

[Kalen O.]

And none of this changes the fact that yet another thread, one supposed to be about a writer we all admire and his plans for ALL the characters, has been hopelessly derailed into 'Is he or Isn't he?' argument number 4,792.

Iceman's my favorite character for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with his sexuality, and as a result I couldnt care less one way or another whether he's gay, bi, straight or what writers choose to do about the subject. Being bisexual myself doesn't influence my opinion one way or another. There are plenty of reasons for Iceman's character to act the way he does without delving into his sexuality, and I think that writing him as bi could make for a number of good storylines as well, if a writer chose to go that way. I might lean slightly more towards the straight 'camp' in this just because I dont trust most X-writers to deal with the subject matter without turning Bobby into a one note character in the process and forgetting all other aspects of him.

That's it. That's my view of the matter in one nice neat little paragraph, and frankly, there's not a damn thing anyone can say that's going to get me to change my opinion. And it seems I could say the same thing for most of you. So why is it that there are more posts spent arguing on this subject than there are posts in the Rick Olney thread?

As I really don't think there's an answer for that one way or another, I'd like to get back on topic and ask if anyone has any speculation on what Rogue's status will even be during and after this crossover, given all the hints we've had that the current arc is going to drastically affect her status quo for quite some time.

[Beast]

Same here. I don't want him in 'my camp'.

I just want good writing and good stories that make sense.
At least we can all agree on that. :D

[Beast]

As I really don't think there's an answer for that one way or another, I'd like to get back on topic and ask if anyone has any speculation on what Rogue's status will even be during and after this crossover, given all the hints we've had that the current arc is going to drastically affect her status quo for quite some time.
Considering that the arc is called 'Condition Critical' and the preview pages appear to show the Conquistador docking with Cable's Base and unloading what looks like Rogue in a life support unit. I would definatly say that it's going to change Rogue's status for the time being. Maybe we'll get Darth Rogue! :D

[ProfeZZor X]

Actually I don't just want him in "My Camp" as you say. I'm against revealing a character as gay where there's no evidence at all of it even being possible. In this case I think there's more than enough ambigous points in Bobby's history that you can hang such an idea off of. Same with Storm. Same with Rachel. Now characters like Professor X, Cyclops, Beast, Jean, Angel, Colossus, etc, etc. There's nothing ambigious about anything that we've seen them being written as in the 616. So I would be against any reveal that says that any of those characters were not straight. It just wouldn't fit the evidence at hand for them.

Without making any assumptions here:

1) Are gay men prone to befriend women more than men? ... If this is so, he hasn't shown any history of such behavior.

2) When a gay man realizes his sexuality for the first time, what kinds of signs does he exhibit to "announce" his sexuality to the public?... Somehow I don't picture Bobby hosting a party for it.

3) Since Bobby is one of the most quietest of the team members, past and present, not to mention being a background character most of the time, what advantages do you see taking place with his character as being gay, assuming that his quiet personality wouldn't change at all?

4) If Bobby was admittedly gay, there is no one in the X-Men universe he has shown a fondness to in the past. So how do you see him fitting in all of a sudden with the (X-Men) gay community?

[Kalen O.]

Darth Rogue, huh? Not sure what you're thinking of there, but I like the sound of it, heh. Given Pan's interference, I think most people are confident a power change is in the works, but a change in perspective to go with it....hmm. I dont know, I like Rogue pretty much the way she is under Carey's pen, but Ive got faith in the guy.

Course, Im still trying to figure out just what exactly Pan hopes to gain from how Rogue's powers work. From the scenes in the hospital at the start of Supernovas, we know he was trying to splice mutant DNA into viruses, figure out if humans could 'catch' mutation like a disease....so maybe he really is onto something given how Rogue's powers work?

Whoa, random thought.....what if Pandemic and his studies of Rogue and her powers ends up playing into how depowered mutants are ultimately repowered?

[Sentinel K]

Considering that the arc is called 'Condition Critical' and the preview pages appear to show the Conquistador docking with Cable's Base and unloading what looks like Rogue in a life support unit. I would definatly say that it's going to change Rogue's status for the time being. Maybe we'll get Darth Rogue! :D

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

[Beast]

Without making any assumptions here:

1) Are gay men prone to befriend women more than men? ... If this is so, he hasn't shown any history of such behavior.

2) When a gay man realizes his sexuality for the first time, what kinds of signs does he exhibit to "announce" his sexuality to the public?

3) Since Bobby is one of the most quietest of the team members, past and present, not to mention being a background character most of the time, what advantages do you see taking place with his character as being gay, assuming that his quiet personality wouldn't change at all?

4) If Bobby was admittedly gay, there is no one in the X-Men universe he has shown a fondness to in the past. So how do you see him fitting in all of a sudden with the (X-Men) gay community?
1) Typically, yes. I know myself, I gravitate more to being friendly with women than I do with guys. Mostly because I don't have any real interest in the usual topic of conversation that guys indulge in. You know, sports and boobs. I do have some male friends, but that's mostly because we share an interest in something. Such as comics and movies. But those are mostly online, where it's easier to find male friends who share the same likes.

2) Depends on how they're personally dealing with coming to terms with it. If they're trying to hide or deny it, they typically will almost act/become homophobic themselves. Making crude jokes and comments because they want to be 'One of the Guys'. It helps to shelter them and their feelings, by transferring their own personal dislike of what they are on others Where as if they're comfortable with it, it's usually try to test the waters first. Making jokes at their own expense about being gay. So it's really just a matter of extremes either way.

3) For one, it might explain why he's always such a quiet character. That his quiet demenor is there to protect him from what people might think about him. His class clown antics also help to distract himself and others from the fact that he's dealing with these things. Getting past that would make him a much deeper character, without removing the fun side of his character. Remember the quote that was brought up a while back from Beast and Angel. Wondering if puberty would ever end or start for Iceman. Even his friends direct jokes about Bobby's sexuality, but in another manner, not the same one that Bobby pokes fun at.

4) Well, we know he has a fondness for Hank. Whether there's more there than just a deep friendship is another matter. Bobby was always there for Beast whenever Trish tore him down. You could almost consider him a reverse faghag in that sense. It might even lead to a good story between Hank and Bobby. Where Hank asks why Bobby never told him about his feelings, and about stuff like that. And then questions why he never saw it or refused to see it. It certainly would be a storyline that brought them together closer as friends. I don't see anything happening with the two for a number of reasons, but I think it's a rich and compelling story that serves to grow their friendship. I don't think any of Bobby's friends would be shocked or stunned by the news. It certainly wouldn't turn into crap like Ultimate Nightcrawler's reaction to Ultimate Colossus.

[ProfeZZor X]

Whoa, random thought.....what if Pandemic and his studies of Rogue and her powers ends up playing into how depowered mutants are ultimately repowered?

Uncannyasiangirl posted an early review saying that Pan had templates for 296 mutants... Including Jean. So I wouldn't doubt the X-Men or some other organization (Sinister or Cable?) wouldn't seize Pandemic's studies and either repower mutants, or use it for some other research.

[Kalen O.]

Interesting. You know, I could definitely see this being part of the new direction for Cable's character. I mean, he's played mutant messiah before, why not do it again and put repowering all of mutantkind of his to-do list? Only problem being, everyone else is getting a little sick of uber powered mutants like him and Wanda playing god. (Course, I dont even KNOW what Cable's current power levels are, trying to figure out which are technology based at the moment and which are naturally his).

[Beast]

All of them are technology based at the moment. I can see that changing soon though.

[ProfeZZor X]

All of them are technology based at the moment. I can see that changing soon though.

Well, Cable seems to be taking more interest in repairing, modifying, and comandeering the Conquistador more than the X-Men at the moment... So I wonder where this is all leading to, other than using it to transport a sickly Rogue to his island nation.

[Brett P]

But most of us don't see it as a change. Just a natural development of his character.

I don't see anything natural in going from Lorna to Mystique to gay. But I do acknowledge the hints that have popped up and that he could possibly be bisexual.

Big obsession? Please, exaggerate a little more.

....I see it here, I see it at ComiXfan...and I've yet to see a good reason for it aside from people clutching at straws and yammering for a bigger gay presence in "X-Men".





That's probably for the best. I'm sure you have plenty of your own to worry about.

Ugh...you know nothing about me...who in the hell do you think you are? I'm not the one turning an interview into my soapbox.


That's irrelevant. Storm is bi but wasn't created like that. Magneto wasn't created as a survivor of the Holocaust. Mr. Sinister wasn't created as a Victorian scientist. Wolverine wasn't created as a 100 year old samurai.

Those things advanced interesting stories. What's so interesting about a gay Iceman? "What's so interesting about a straight Iceman?!" I hear you all chant...and I say EXACTLY! Sexuality shouldn't BE a major factor in these characters so why bother changing it just because!

Well, that's what i think.

Really. You REALLY think EVERY writer who's written Bobby pursuing women thinks he's in denial? This is just getting really, really sad...


Now you're just whining like a little girl.

I'M whining? I'm actually speechless right now. I feel like I've stepped into the friggin twilight zone. I'm in an X-MEN forum? REALLY?!


The point is Iceman is gay already, and we're just asking him to get out of the closet, no one is saying he "should be made gay".

HE ISN'T GAY ALREADY!! What the heck is wrong with you people?! Why does it matter so much that you have to convince yourself he's gay and try to do the same to the rest of us?!


Yeah, like the straight posters who have nothing better to do but stamp their feet and shout that he's not gay. That being gay somehow ruins his character. Hmmm, sounds familiar. Oh, I know... it's just like how the numerous Gay Colossus threads from the Ultimate forum turn out. ;)

The fact is, the straight supporters are on firmer footing than the gay supporters what with him being written as NOT gay for the past 40 years.

The extremists on both sides are as bad as each other.

****ing crybabies.


This isn't about a divide between gay and straight posters. I'M gay, Bobby's one of my favourite characters and I have absolutely no desire for him to turn out gay...I like him as a hopeless straight guy, it is an appealing part of his character. Not everyone is successful in love. I hate this whole notion that just because he's been unsuccessful with his previous relationships then it should mean he's possibly gay...it's ridiculous.

Anyway Carey said on the subject that HIS plans conflicted with Bobby coming out as gay...so I'm gonna let you people get back to your crazy notions and agendas for whatever reason.

[Sentinel K]

Now you're just whining like a little girl.




As a little girl myself, I take offence to this.

[claimtosubclaim]

I don't see anything natural in going from Lorna to Mystique to gay. But I do acknowledge the hints that have popped up and that he could possibly be bisexual.

This isn't about a divide between gay and straight posters. I'M gay, Bobby's one of my favourite characters and I have absolutely no desire for him to turn out gay...I like him as a hopeless straight guy, it is an appealing part of his character. Not everyone is successful in love. I hate this whole notion that just because he's been unsuccessful with his previous relationships then it should mean he's possibly gay...it's ridiculous.

Anyway Carey said on the subject that HIS plans conflicted with Bobby coming out as gay...so I'm gonna let you people get back to your crazy notions and agendas for whatever reason.

This, I do agree with. In a world where most male X-Men seem to have an almost preternatural skill at getting women (and laid), Bobby was the high school jokester who had little luck, though his defensive personality and priority as an X-Man didn't help.

[Christopher O]

Ugh...you know nothing about me...who in the hell do you think you are?
Who are you? You came into this thread talking about the so-called obsessions and inadequacies of other posters and all that shit, and I didn't appreciate it, so I let you know in my own little way. It's not much fun with the tables turned, is it?

I'm not the one turning an interview into my soapbox.
And I am? If you review the thread you'll discover that you've posted more on this particular issue than I have.

[Zombienorthstar]

Here's a question. Why are so many of you obssessed with him being gay or bi? Do you want to see him kissing and sleeping with men? Why? To shock readers? To make a comic book more risky? I have no problem with gay characters but making a character who is straight gay all of a sudden just because some fans cooked up the theory because they thought it was funny or cool I have a problem with. The X-Men shouldn't be about "Lets see which characters we can make gay" to shock readers. I don't want Bobby Drake to be homosexual. Simple as that.

I don't find gay sex shocking. But to be honest i don't think their should be too graphic sex in the comics anyway...perhaps just allusions to it having have happened like on tv (a couple in bed afterwards etc)

Bobby isn't gay, insofar as we know, there is oppurtunity to retcon him into being a closested gay man (he's the most plausible of the X-Men i'd say to be a closested homosexual)

I dont have any great desire for him to be gay, just for him to be written well. However i think the assumption that his behaviour is impossible to translate as the actions of a closeted gay man, is an incorrect one. It could, but it hasnt.

If a writer decided to use some of this backstory to make him gay i wouldnt kick and scream and say 'this is a TOTAL bolt from the blue' but jsut as you could use many elements of other characters to create new situaitons for them this has yet to happen. Bobby isn't gay until a writer protrays him as such.

[Zombienorthstar]

However, i think any attempt to enforce or shoe horn in gay characters with quotas and editorial mandates can only end in sloppy writing. The comics world will catch up when the next generation of writers, one that is more at ease and aware of gay people takes the reigns.

[venuscameback]

I find it hilarious that so many gay posters are clutching at straws when it comes to Bobby possibly being gay.

Almost as if they can't think of anything else to talk about.

I'm not gay and I think Bobby's a closeted homosexual, or bisexual

and just because you choose to dismiss the circumsantial evidence supporting the 'he's gay/bi' argument doesn't mean those who do accept them are clutching at straws

Another thing is I think if you do a story about Bobby being gay your gonna have to have the obligatory team reaction plot in it

You don't have to have any specific follow through. A writer could take the story in all manner of directions (or none) that do not have to include the team finding out. Bobby can be outed to the reader without ever coming out or being outed to another character, and that in itself could set up some really interesting narrative dynamics and tensions

[Zombienorthstar]

You don't have to have any specific follow through. A writer could take the story in all manner of directions (or none) that do not have to include the team finding out. Bobby can be outed to the reader without ever coming out or being outed to another character, and that in itself could set up some really interesting narrative dynamics and tensions

Yep dramatic irony, when the audience knows more than the characters.

[venuscameback]

I don't see anything natural in going from Lorna to Mystique to gay.

I can see a realistic trajectory there, from dating a girl to experimenting with a shapeshifter to dating a guy

[Brett P]

And I am? If you review the thread you'll discover that you've posted more on this particular issue than I have.

And that's the point, I've tried to stick TO the issue. I specifically stated I had no desire to partake in the social/equality subject but you just couldn't help but call me out on it for some unknown reason.


Who are you? You came into this thread talking about the so-called obsessions and inadequacies of other posters and all that shit, and I didn't appreciate it, so I let you know in my own little way. It's not much fun with the tables turned, is it?

Deary me...someone's grumpy. No I didn't come into the thread talking about that...I came into the thread to talk about Careys interview and when the subject arose, argued my case for Iceman not being gay in a perfectly reasonable manner, even acknowledging it's possible he could be bi...and I ended up getting sucked into this insane little argument after being bashed for my opinons.

My initial comments on the latter matter (intending to remove myself from that side of the discussion as already stated) weren't aimed at anyone in particular, let alone in your direction, but you still felt the need to defend yourself and attack me personally like I'm not allowed to air my own opinion? It's nothing to do with "fun" and everything to do with irrelevant. (Although generally speaking, tables ARE more enjoyable wrong way up...)


So I'll say it again. I'm done. If you wanna carry on talking sexuality and equality in media then go ahead but I'm here for comics, Carey and team rosters.




4) Well, we know he has a fondness for Hank. Whether there's more there than just a deep friendship is another matter. Bobby was always there for Beast whenever Trish tore him down. You could almost consider him a reverse faghag in that sense. It might even lead to a good story between Hank and Bobby. Where Hank asks why Bobby never told him about his feelings, and about stuff like that. And then questions why he never saw it or refused to see it. It certainly would be a storyline that brought them together closer as friends.

Now this scares me. I think I'd cry if I picked up an X-Men comic and this is the story I got. And not in a good way.

It certainly wouldn't turn into crap like Ultimate Nightcrawler's reaction to Ultimate Colossus.
Wheras I found the Ultimate Colossus/Nightcrawler thing highly interesting and in the beginning stages probably the most enjoyable thing about Kirkmans run. Made me think Kurt was a total ass for sure (wheras 616 Kurt is my fave character) but it certainly made me sit up and take notice of the situation.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't see anything natural in going from Lorna to Mystique to gay.

You mean, pass from chasing and being used for a woman deeply in love with another men who just left her at the altar, a man whom Bobby hates and seemed more interested in a competition with him than the "prize" (Annie and Lorna), to a 100-year-old shapeshifter whom even her children find to be unreliable and see as threat, is responsable for the deaths of two people close the X-men and most likely will use him for her own purposes to gay? I don't think is implausible at all.



Those things advanced interesting stories. What's so interesting about a gay Iceman? "What's so interesting about a straight Iceman?!" I hear you all chant...and I say EXACTLY! Sexuality shouldn't BE a major factor in these characters so why bother changing it just because!

But we're saying that Iceman is ALREADY gay and just wanting him to come out, because it would deepen the character and it's motivations and actions, and would make it an interesting storyline, not wanting to make him gay all the sudden for hidden agendas, like you're suggesting (by the way, i am not gay or bi, so you can play that on me).

And, by the way, in one issue Storm passed to supposedly straight woman to bi, and no one found it outrageous and OOC and even you're saying that it would be believable for him to be bi. The same thing happened to, let's say, Magneto and Xavier being friends.




Really. You REALLY think EVERY writer who's written Bobby pursuing women thinks he's in denial? This is just getting really, really sad...

Certainly not all. Possibly not even one, but that's completely irrelevant.





HE ISN'T GAY ALREADY!! What the heck is wrong with you people?! Why does it matter so much that you have to convince yourself he's gay and try to do the same to the rest of us?!

HE IS GAY ALREADY!! What the heck is wrong with you?! Why does it matter so much that you have to convince yourself he's not gay and try to do the same to the rest of us?!

See, i can play that game too.:rolleyes:

[Nyssane]

Iceman's not gay. Unless it's with Perro, in which case he'd bend over like the little nelly bottom bitch boy he really is.

[Christopher O]

So I'll say it again. I'm done. If you wanna carry on talking sexuality and equality in media then go ahead but I'm here for comics, Carey and team rosters.
You threw yourself into the debate. No one did it to you, and you can leave it the same way. In fact, we all should. It's a tired discussion, and it's thread-drift.

[Beast]

Now this scares me. I think I'd cry if I picked up an X-Men comic and this is the story I got. And not in a good way.
Then I hope that you're driven to tears by every comic book you buy from now on.
Wheras I found the Ultimate Colossus/Nightcrawler thing highly interesting and in the beginning stages probably the most enjoyable thing about Kirkmans run. Made me think Kurt was a total ass for sure (wheras 616 Kurt is my fave character) but it certainly made me sit up and take notice of the situation.
Highly interesting? Destroying a decent Ultimate character that hasn't shown one example that is consistant with how he reacted to Colossus is highly interesting to you? This isn't exactly something that really can be easily salvaged. Next you'll be telling us that what Nightcrawler did with Dazzler was romantic. :eek:

[rwsmith]

Highly interesting? Destroying a decent Ultimate character that hasn't shown one example that is consistant with how he reacted to Colossus is highly interesting to you? This isn't exactly something that really can be easily salvaged. Next you'll be telling us that what Nightcrawler did with Dazzler was romantic. :eek:

I didn't see anything inconsistent about his reaction. He was stunned, then uncomfortable. Not an unrealistic reaction at all from someone who was no doubt sheltered for most of his life due to his appearance (and may or may not be Catholic like his 616 counterpart).

[Affinity]

He totally gets these characters. His analysis is wonderful; the Lady M one totally convinced me.

[Beast]

He totally gets these characters. His analysis is wonderful; the Lady M one totally convinced me.
Agreed. Mike Carey is awesome. He must never leave the X-Books again.

[Beast]

I didn't see anything inconsistent about his reaction. He was stunned, then uncomfortable. Not an unrealistic reaction at all from someone who was no doubt sheltered for most of his life due to his appearance (and may or may not be Catholic like his 616 counterpart).
Sure, if all he was was stunned and uncomfortable. But he just suddenly turned into an insane psychopath that kidnapped Dazzler, held her hostage, and lied to her about the X-Men being possibly dead. Just so he could get some makeout time with her. Doesn't fit to well with anything that came before.

[Christopher O]

Agreed. Mike Carey is awesome. He must never leave the X-Books again.

I agree as well. I just with they'd give him an artist whose work doesn't give me migraines.

[xakko]

Agreed. Mike Carey is awesome. He must never leave the X-Books again.

and after 20 years, when the worm has turned and some other style of comics is popular (if they even exist in this format), he can be reviled for still trying to write his stories...

kidding, of course...

[Beast]

I agree as well. I just with they'd give him an artist whose work doesn't give me migraines.
Same here. Though Bachalo's style seems to be shifting to more clear. There's less random 'Paint Sneeze' particles floating around. And his characters are much more defined. Still would prefer a better artist though. ;)

[Beast]

and after 20 years, when the worm has turned and some other style of comics is popular (if they even exist in this format), he can be reviled for still trying to write his stories...

kidding, of course...
Hey, better that he be reviled in 20 years than now. You know, like Whedon and Morrison. ;) :D

[claimtosubclaim]

Same here. Though Bachalo's style seems to be shifting to more clear. There's less random 'Paint Sneeze' particles floating around. And his characters are much more defined. Still would prefer a better artist though. ;)

Sal Larroca was probably the best (though not the most consistent) artist on an X-title in the last 7 years. He's moved on to greener pastures, but it'd be nice to see him come back to work with Mike.

[Volk1]

Agreed. Mike Carey is awesome. He must never leave the X-Books again.

Post of the month! Beast - you can rock when it comes down to it. ;)

Sal Larroca was probably the best (though not the most consistent) artist on an X-title in the last 7 years. He's moved on to greener pastures, but it'd be nice to see him come back to work with Mike
Yeah, but I'll always think his X-treme stuff was better than his X-Men stuff. I don't know if it was the inker or colorists but whoever was doing them on X-treme was doing it better.

[Matthew K.]

Wow...I giggled immensely reading his evaluation of Bobby!


that was a bit. i'm open to the idea of bobby being a polymorphous deviant...it's about time the x-men get a little more diverse (if Carey chooses to go that route).

But, the whole "he's gay" vs. "he's straight" arguement is boring already guys (but I see we've moved on...i started typing this when i was reading back a few pages). Nonetheless, I'll throw my 2 cents on top...may be he's not 100% gay or 100% straight. However, the "he's totally 100 & 10% gay" evidence is highly dubious like UTV & Pete said. So what if he acts a bit effiminate or girly at times, he's only had attraction/desires for women. So on a gay to straight scale, he's leaning toward straight.

if you read the interview closely it's fun to see how Carey wraps his head around the characters he's invested in. & he makes you remember why you fell in love with these characters in the first place. he respects them. he knows them.



I like this bit:
Q: Given that you work over such diverse genres, it’s hard to imagine you tied to one publisher who would satisfy your creative desires. What, if anything, would tempt you into an exclusive contract?

A: A financial consideration wouldn’t interest me, unless it really was shedloads of money, but if it came down to ‘and you can write this book’ and it was a book that I’d love to write, something like that, yeah, I could see myself doing that. Most exclusives are only for two or three years, so it’s not like you’re getting married, you’re just committing yourself for a certain length of time.

...proves Carey's an optimist. I wonder if Mike ever peeks into topics like this...
i definately would!Yeah, but I'll always think his X-treme stuff was better than his X-Men stuff. I don't know if it was the inker or colorists but whoever was doing them on X-treme was doing it better.
His XXM stuff was killer, he didn't use an inker either because he liked the delicate pencil line style he created & didn't want an inker to trace it. Liquid! is generally does a kickass coloring job as well

[slugzilla]

Bobby's one of my favourite characters and I have absolutely no desire for him to turn out gay...I like him as a hopeless straight guy, it is an appealing part of his character. Not everyone is successful in love. I hate this whole notion that just because he's been unsuccessful with his previous relationships then it should mean he's possibly gay...it's ridiculous.


I agree with you 100%.

[Zombienorthstar]

Awwwwww :( No one's violently disagreed with my yet? When did my opinions stop becoming inflamatory.

[twilight]

Who really cares if he's gay or not?

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Post of the month! Beast - you can rock when it comes down to it. ;)


Yeah, but I'll always think his X-treme stuff was better than his X-Men stuff. I don't know if it was the inker or colorists but whoever was doing them on X-treme was doing it better.


Oh i know it was the inker. Im sure partially the writer too. He seemed to have no interest in working with Milligan or Austen and his art seemed phoned in. But even then Miki butchered it like Alice's boyfriend.

[Maka Nani]

I liked the interview. I haven't been reading X-Men but I like Mystique so I will borrow the comics when my husband's not looking.

[ProfeZZor X]

Who really cares if he's gay or not?

Are we still on this topic?

Great taste..... or...... Less filling.

Like you said, who cares at this point. We're all consumer whores anyway.

[claimtosubclaim]

Oh i know it was the inker. Im sure partially the writer too. He seemed to have no interest in working with Milligan or Austen and his art seemed phoned in. But even then Miki butchered it like Alice's boyfriend.

His work on Newuniversal w/ Warren Ellis is brilliant right now, aside from some of his characters looking like celebrities. Whoever's coloring it is amazing as well.

[Affinity]

Bachalo is my favorite artist in the industry. I'm not a fan of generic, bland styles (a la Weiringo, very talented but for me PERSONALLY it does not work), and Bachalo's quirkiness is perfection. I love when new preview art comes out.

Leinel Yu also gets me (I'd love for him to come back to X-Men!), as does Travel Foreman. Very dynamic art.

[Faded]

Bachalo is my favorite artist in the industry. I'm not a fan of generic, bland styles (a la Weiringo, very talented but for me PERSONALLY it does not work), and Bachalo's quirkiness is perfection. I love when new preview art comes out.

Leinel Yu also gets me (I'd love for him to come back to X-Men!), as does Travel Foreman. Very dynamic art.

I agree Finny! I prefer his weird style over anything that just reads straightforward or clean. Plus, he's avatar perfection!

I love love Leinil. Even though his proportions can be really off at times, he generally has this intensity that I just latch on to. He's reason enough to read New Avengers, and I hope he comes back to the X-Men, too.

[ProfeZZor X]

I'd like to see Brandon Peterson on the adjectiveless run for an arc or two. He's the reason why I started picking up Ultimate X-Men again.... Then he left, and so did I (again).

[Brett P]

Sometimes I find Bachalos work very confusing, but some of his stuff is just so artistic and creative I'm just totally wowed. On the other hand I was SO glad to see Sal Larroca leave the x books...I can't put my finger on why exactly, I think maybe I'd just got bored of him after having done a considerably long stint. I was so ready for him to move on months before we had the change around.

[Matthew K.]

Bachalo is my favorite artist in the industry. I'm not a fan of generic, bland styles (a la Weiringo, very talented but for me PERSONALLY it does not work), and Bachalo's quirkiness is perfection. I love when new preview art comes out.

Leinel Yu also gets me (I'd love for him to come back to X-Men!), as does Travel Foreman. Very dynamic art.

Bachalo rocks! he draws nice bodies & styles for his characters.

Yu is hit or miss sometimes for me.

[We R. Venom]

Brandon Peterson is a damn good artist and I love his work .One person i'd liek to see is Weiringo(sp?) I guess thats asking for too much. Anyway a short little arc couldnt hurt.

[ProfeZZor X]

Brandon Peterson is a damn good artist and I love his work .One person i'd liek to see is Weiringo(sp?) I guess thats asking for too much. Anyway a short little arc couldnt hurt.

Either of the Kubert brothers will also do just fine too.

[jarrod]

Who do I need to sleep with to get Leonardi on a regular X-book?

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Probably Joey Q. Make sure to tell him how awesome marvel knights is

[jarrod]

I'll be sure to sneak it in between the oinks...

[Flameworthy]

Whatever happened to Art Adams? He's actually my favorite artist, and I would love to see him work on an X-Book.

[Mariah]

Who do I need to sleep with to get Leonardi on a regular X-book?
Joe Q. But seriously? Leonardi? Other than his run on Cloak and Dagger*barfs on the rest of his work*

[Brett P]

Brandon Peterson is a damn good artist and I love his work .One person i'd liek to see is Weiringo(sp?)

On what title? I agree Wieringo is a great artist, I loved him early on in Exiles and I'm really enjoying Fantastic Four with him onboard (although not sure what I think of his Thing...it's certainly unique though)

[We R. Venom]

On what title? I agree Wieringo is a great artist, I loved him early on in Exiles and I'm really enjoying Fantastic Four with him onboard (although not sure what I think of his Thing...it's certainly unique though)

Well for Ringo, I loved his work on Fantastic four. I liked his Spider-man art on Friendly Neighborhood. Pretty much everything he does. For Peterson I liked his Red Sonja covers and his Ultimate Vision stuff the most. I admit I didnt like some of his GL covers, but only a few.

[Faded]

Ooooh sassy avatar Mariah!

When was Wieringo on Exiles? I don't seem to recall that.

[ibrakeforchinwe]

Ooooh sassy avatar Mariah!

When was Wieringo on Exiles? I don't seem to recall that.

He never was, I think he's mistaking him with Mike Mckone.

[jarrod]

Joe Q. But seriously? Leonardi? Other than his run on Cloak and Dagger*barfs on the rest of his work*
What?!?

What Leonardi work are you looking at? His Uncanny/New Mutants/Excalibur fill ins in the late 80s/early 90s were all stunningly good as was Spider-man 2099. Haven't really seen much else of his work... his Uncanny Annual few years back (the M-Tech/Red Skull/Muir story) was majestic though. He's best back-up artist the X-men ever had.

Real shame we never got his "Rachel in Mojoworld" mini. :(

[Zombienorthstar]

Can we see some scans of this dude's work?

[samil87]

I like the current roster too, but it seems to be a bit like Jean's Eve of Destruction team, suitable to face the immediate threats when many of the X-Men are unavailable, but still very much a temporary team.
As long as he keeps Rogue, Cannonball, and Mystique I'll be happy :D Beast would be a great addition though, I've always liked the character but since reading Astonishing I think I love him, definitely a beast fan now.
Karima is a little boring and I could take or leave Lady M, though I want her to stay if Carey gets Beast (potentially some brilliant interaction there I think).
Nightcrwaler would be a nice addition too I think.
Sabretooth is another of my trigger scent targets, just imagine it,the X-Mansion gift shop,"scent Mr Creed? By the way this is our new sales assistant X-23...." I'll be ecstatic if he goes.
I'm not really fussy on Cable, so I'd like him to go too.
Bobby has had his moments recently, so it would be nice if he stayed and as others have commented the beast/iceman combination would be great.
Of course there's always the possibility that he's getting Cyclops and not Beast, which would be good as well (especially if Emma went with him- Emma/Rogue catfights/sniping make me very happy :D ). It would be nice to see as just a team member for a change instead of in the position of leadership he tends to assume.
Not sue why but I'd love to see him get Husk or even Siryn (not likely she'd be put on the same team as Mystique but it would be good :) )
Still Carey seems do justice to all the characters he gets so I suppose it doesn't really matter :D
My Carey Dream Team: Rogue, Cannonball, Mystique, Northstar, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Husk, Gambit, Nightcrawler.

[Omega Alpha]

Of course there's always the possibility that he's getting Cyclops and not Beast, which would be good as well (especially if Emma went with him- Emma/Rogue catfights/sniping make me very happy :D ). It would be nice to see as just a team member for a change instead of in the position of leadership he tends to assume.

If Cyclops will be on the team (which is unlikely), he certainly will be the leader.


My Carey Dream Team: Rogue, Cannonball, Mystique, Northstar, Cyclops, Emma Frost, Husk, Gambit, Nightcrawler.

I would love this team.:D

[Beast]

Yeah, I sort of doubt he's getting Cyclops or Emma. For one, Carey seems to want to use Rogue as his leader character. So bringing in Scott would just blow that dynamic, as Scott as was noted above would take the leader position. And I doubt they'd put Emma in a completely different book than Scott, unless they kibosh their relationship. I can see them making usual cameos, but not being cast members.

[Zombienorthstar]

Beast would be a great addition to Carey's cast....he's already practically writing him!

[Beast]

Beast would be a great addition to Carey's cast....he's already practically writing him!
Agreed. While I was hoping for Bendis in Mighty Avengers. I'll settle for Carey in Adjectiveless X-Men.

[ProfeZZor X]

Beast would be a great addition to Carey's cast....he's already practically writing him!

Carey might be writing him, but Bachalo's not drawing him.... At least in a good way.

[Brett P]

Well for Ringo, I loved his work on Fantastic four. I liked his Spider-man art on Friendly Neighborhood. Pretty much everything he does. For Peterson I liked his Red Sonja covers and his Ultimate Vision stuff the most. I admit I didnt like some of his GL covers, but only a few.

What x title would u like to see him on I meant :)

He never was, I think he's mistaking him with Mike Mckone.

I think you're right :D There's a similarity in style there thought, right?

[We R. Venom]

What x title would u like to see him on I meant :)

Ringo on Adjectiveless X-men. I know it would be a short arc because he is used for so many things, but i'd love to see it. His Iceman is brilliant. His art is fun. Thats what i like.

[samil87]

Yeah I'm highly doubtful of Carey getting Cyclops too, but I can dream :D I was thinking that maybe after Breakworld and Emma's telepathic manipulation of him, he may change and maybe want time away from the Institute and the responisbilty of leadership, but it's quite a while away and highly unlikely (hmm maybe unlikely should be switched with "never going to happen" :D )
I don't need Emma I suppose.....I'd settle for Perfection ;)