Mutant League 01/23/2007 AM Game 3: AceOfSpades vs. Zombienorthstar & Mitsaso

[mattbib]

Welcome to our first match of the day...

In the first corner we have AceOfSpades' Bloody Hellions (Emma Frost, Magma, Cannonball, Darwin, Hub, Toad, X-23)

vs

In the other corner is Zombienorthstar & Mitsaso's H*O*M*O*S (Dead Girl, Hellion, Kiden Nixon, Stacy X, Dust, Meltdown, Mammomax)

Both participants have submitted strategies:

[mattbib]

NOTE: Dead Girl can commune with the dead and make them rise and all that stuff, so I have to be careful not to kill anybody. Even X-23 and Toad, who would be expected to use lethal force, have been briefed by Emma on their opponent’s special “gift” and will only go for the knockout.

Phase One:
And Thus it Begins Emma simultaneously attacks Kiden Nixon and Hellion with ruthless psychic bolts. Not enough to kill the two of them, but enough to take them out of the fight. Kiden Nixon has not been thoroughly trained against psychic attacks, and thus she’s easy to take down. While Julian has been a student at the Institute, Emma would be his psi defense teacher, and there’s no way the student could beat the master. Even if Stacy-X tries to give Kiden an adrenaline rush, there is no way that could happen before Emma disables the child.

At the exact same time, Magma is sending a wave of earth at the H*O*M*O*S in an attempt to bury/ crush them. Assuming that Meltdown has jetted into the air, Dead Girl has not been harmed (or just isn’t out) and Dust has turned.. dusty, then Mammomax and Stacy-X would take the brunt of this blast. If Kiden Nixon does stop time, there should be at least a little disturbance in the shape of the terrain, making it more difficult for her to cross, which would put into the question how long she can maintain the time stop without putting strain on her body.

Cannonball grabs hold of Darwin and the two of them rocket into the air towards the opposing team. His blast aura will protect both him and Darwin from the brunt of most blasts.

Immediately after the wave of rock has hit the opposing team Hub grabs X-23 and Toad and teleports right behind the bulk of the H*O*M*O*S. If Julian somehow managed to not get mind-blasted by Emma and erected a TK shield, Hub transports her group within the shield. And, if Julian managed to raise everyone off the ground on one of his little platforms, Hub teleports onto the platform. Once X-23 and Toad are dropped off, Hub teleports back to where Magma and Emma are standing.

Phase Two… The Execution
Cannonball rockets straight at Meltdown, hitting her full speed if need be. Even if she starts exploding her plasma burst, Sam’s shield should protect the two of them. Once Meltdown is either stunned or knocked out (whichever comes first), Sam cuts his power out for a second to drop Darwin on top of Hellion if Julian is still awake. Sam will keep accosting Tabitha until she is clearly out of the fight and then proceed to rocket at the next closest person. Darwin will just keep pummeling Julian until he is unconscious. If Dust starts to harass Darwin, he’ll just adapt, and maybe Julian will get taken down (again) in the process. Darwin makes his next target the closest enemy left standing.

X-23 and Toad find themselves in the midst of their enemy. If Stacy-X is still up, Toad will spit his mucous gunk at her face and then proceed to power kick her, she should go flying and be out of it for a while. X-23 finds her target in Mammomax (given that he wasn’t taken down by Magma’s seismic upheaval) If he’s within a few meters she’ll charge at him, and while he does have that corrosive juice he can spit up, Laura is fast enough to roll out of the way. She makes her way around him and takes out his Achilles tendons, putting him in A LOT of pain and effectively removing him from the fight.

Hub teleports Emma to a corner of the region furthest from the fighting. While there will be a brief moment of concentration breaking, it should not be enough to cause any other problems.

Magma is making blasts of lava spew forth from the ground at many points across the field, making it difficult for anyone to make it across. She will however refrain from creating the lava bursts where any of her teammates are fighting. Her lava creating actions will continue until the battle is over.

While all this is happening Emma has changed her focus to Dust. With Kiden Nixon, Julian, and Meltdown out by this point, Sooraya is the next largest threat. Emma will keep force-feeding her images of her mother being slaughtered because her daughter is a mutant. It’s a dirty move, but Emma would sink that low. Even if Dust is dust at that point, she will still have a mind to attack.

By this point, if Kiden Nixon is somehow STILL awake, X-23 and Toad will just keep kicking her until she gets knocked out.

Phase Three: The Clean-Up
By this point in the match, Mammomax, Hellion, Kiden Nixon, Meltdown, Stacy-X, and Dust should be down and out. Dead Girl will be all that is left. Anyone that is still up and moving will be hunted down and beaten into unconciuosness by whoever can get to him/her.

Emma starts psy-blasting Dead Girl with all she’s got. Since Dead Girl is the one that could raise the dead, there is no need to hold back at all when Emma strikes.

A Final Scenario:
If, at the very beginning my opponents decide to kill off their teammates so Dead Girl can control them, Emma will focus her attacks on whoever is still alive (plus Dead Girl). Everyone else will follow basically the same attack routes, changing the choices a little given who is alive and who is dead.

[mattbib]

The very moment the battle begins:

Dust instantaneously turns into her sand form and heads straight at Emma Frost’s head, as we’re anticipating a psychic attack from the delectable Ms. Frost. So now we have two options. Either Emma will turn into a diamond form, this is most likely as Dust will be nearly ripping her skin off, and therefore Emma cannot use her evil, man-stealing telepathy. Or Emma stays in human form, vainly trying to use her telepathy against Dust, unfortunately in sand form telepathy doesn’t work against Sooraya, even Xavier himself couldn’t stop her in this form. We’re assuming to save her life Emma will change into diamond form. (New X-Men #146)
Meanwhile, Hellion instantly creates a mucho powerful t/k bubble to protect Kiden Nixon from any physical attacks, while she mentally psyches herself up to stop time. Meanwhile Hellion and Meltdown take to the sky. Meltdown is using her anti-gravity belt (Nextwave #1) Dead Girl goes intangiable.
We’re aware that Cannonball is coming…and we plan to hold him off mainly with Tabitha with Julian supporting her in the back ground…sure nothing can stop him when he’s blasting but a combination of time bombs and TK should keep him busy.
Stacy X has mounted Mammomax (steady…) she’s basically on his back as if piggy backing. Hellion launches them in the air towards the opposing team. Julian doesn’t really mind, he’s a weird elephant guy and she’s a creepy snake skank. When they near above the other team, Stacy activates her pheromone powers which can control bodily functions and makes Mammomax vomit. He spews acid chunks over the other team. Ouch guys.
Stacy and Mammomax land…. Meltdown is laying down covering fire. Mammomax starts charging around…using his tusks on people, namely Hub, Magma and Toad if they’re still present. Stacy meanwhile heads straight for X-23. They spar, now I’m confident that Stacy can hold Laura off as she has sparred with Wolverine. Laura thinks they’re fighting to death. Stacy knows better. She’s only holding her off till she sees the intangible Dead Girl approach. She makes skin to skin contact with Laura and ramps up her irrational teenage hormones to the extreme. Just as Laura’s emotions are at the extreme. Dead Girl uses her powers to pluck the ghost of Laura’s dead mother from the poor girl’s mind. You remember, the one she killed? More angst than the OC.Still only about forty/fifty seconds into the battle:


Now one of two things will happen. X-23’s either gonna break down sobbing…or she’s going to absolutely bat-sh** crazy. We’re guessing the latter. Luckily, Julian’s been watching and he lifts Stacy off the ground, (he’s not to bothered about Mammomax, come on…who is?) and Dead Girl goes intangible, she runs off leaving Laura to carve up her own team. (Wow, seems Emma was right about Laura being a danger to everyone around here, whoda thunk it?)
Speaking of Emma, she’s been in the old sand storm for a while now…and for someone who wears that much leather, ouch, that’s gonna chafe. I guess it’s time to finish her off, Dead Girl phases through the storm. Dust, knowing her cue makes a little ‘eye of the storm’ and Dead Girl delves into Emma’s mind and plucks the ghost of Esme Cuckoo, now Esme did a lot of crazy things in her time…the best of which was finding Emma Frost’s diamond flaw and shooting her (New X-Men #139) now that’s useful information to a bunch of people trying to trounce Emma. Dead Girl uses her claws and breaks Emma into a million pieces. If Dead Girl’s claws aren’t hard enough to shatter Emma in her mineral form then we’ll use Kiden to do it as she can apply the right amount of force. (see below)
Julian anticipates that Kiden’s nearing the edge and drops the bubble just before her power activate and everything becomes slower than a Robert Altman film!***The Kiden Show***
The next second belongs to Kiden, who has slowed down the world around her, or more accurately, she has gone into an extreme speeding time (for her, this mere second is around five minutes time). Kiden has to come in skin-to-skin contact with someone for this "extreme slow-motion" to return to normal, so as long as she avoids that it should be fine. Whatever she touches is affected by the speeding time, usually by having an extreme amount of force applied to it. She approaches the rampaging X-23 and, aligning herself properly, she KICKS her as hard as she can (making sure that there is skin contact in that action, maybe by taking a shoe off or something)! One time, Kiden gently TOUCHED another guy while in this "speeding time" and his arm got savagely broken. Therefore, the kick she gave X-23 should be enough to off her, AND propel her towards one of her team-mates (Kiden will kick X-23 towards Magma or maybe even Cannonball, depending on how things are at the time). Now, imagine a lethal teenage girl with a heavy adamantium skeleton flying towards you in an outrageous speed...instant K.O.! Just as Kiden kicks X-23, time will go back to normal, so Kiden runs out of the forthcoming blow's range and starts trying to "stop time" again.


Just as X-23's thrashed body hits Magma and smashes her puny bones into bits, Hellion realises it's time to leave the -kinda- defensive and lead the offensive. He creates a huge wave of telekinetic energy which drives towards the other team at massive speed and erupts on the enemy's heads! Whoever was standing around (Emma and Magma are out of the game, X-23 is unconscious at least) is telekinetically thrown away and is temporarily or permanently out of the game (Toad and Hub wouldn't really withstand a blow such as this, but it's possible that Hub might have been out of its way)
Meltdown joins Stacy X and Mammomax above the field, they start kicking ass and taking names! Mammomax will run towards Hub to scare her into teleporting again and again, while Meltdown looks down on them from above and sends energy bombs at wherever Hub might teleport. She also sends the occasional bomb at X-23's unconscious body, making more damage to delay her healing factor from bringing her back to consciousness.
Stacy X approaches Darwin slowly (who must have easily survived Hellion's blow). Darwin is the man who can surive ANYTHING and adapt into anything! But, with that face, ONE thing is definately sure. He NEVER got laid!!! And that's what Stacy is here for! Before Darwin has time to adapt to her powers, she will touch him and use her pheromones to seduce him and give him some (and MORE than some!!), tiring him out, giving him orgasms one after another, until he's beat!
Meanwhile, Dead Girl and Dust have much free time in their hands after taking care of Emma. Hellion uses his t/k to lift Emma's shattered pieces and hurl them at Hub and Cannonball, then squares off against Sam... Sam is very powerful and pretty much impervious to harm…but not when Dust, in sandstorm mode, attacks him, gets into his pants and all the moving sand in there gives him serious burns in the butt and between the thighs! That's how Sam will lose focus and concentration and Hellion (whose boosted powers are already a powerful match for Cannonball) will knock him out with his powerful t/k blasts.
Dead Girl finishes off Toad, in case Hellion initial blast (or Meltdown's exploding presents from above) didn't take care of him already. He’s Toad, it’s like his secondary mutation to lose. And Dead Girl is super cool.
Kiden activates her powers again, only this time she has less stuff to do. Having everything in slo-mo, she strolls to where Hub has teleported this time (Mammomax and meltdown kept her busy) and slaps her in the face. Game over for Hub.
Who's left now? Oh, right, Darwin. Who should we send up against the man who can’t die, how about the girl who can’t stay dead? Dead Girl uses her powers to pluck the ghosts of Sway and Petra from Darwin’s mind and places them right next to where X-23 is. Our anticipation is that Darwin, knackered from his ‘encounter’ will run towards the images of his dead friends, perhaps happy they’re alive, perhaps to brag about how a girl finally showed interest!
Stacy ramps up Julian’s testosterone…he’s going to need it. As Darwin reaches the corpse/unconscious body of X-23, Hellion launches Darwin and X-23 (and let’s face it probably the ground they’re standing on) into space. Now the two might be still alive, breathing and orbiting the Earth. Let him adapt and her heal all they want in that empty vastness, for all we care.With the battle finally won, the gang picks up Emma's priceless diamond pieces and then sell them to a pawn shop. With the money they buy mansions, yachts, feather boas and their own pimp suits. Except from Mammomax, who can't find a pimpsuit his size.

~fin~

[Brian M.]

WOW!

Both matches are really well thought out and really detailed. Everything I've read so far seems plausible.

I'm gonna wait for my teammate to get on and discuss the match before we cast a vote.

[Mikl C]

I can't decide either. If Emma is unable to affect Dust in dust form she's pretty screwed. How fast can dust travel in dust form?

[AceOfSpades]

Okay.. wow. Both of our strategies are definitely long. Now we get to the discussions.

First off.. ZNS and Mitsaso , while they did send Dust at Emma, still left the time between Dust turning dusty and Dust reaching Emma for Emma to pretty much screw over Hellion and Kiden Nixon. There is no way the two of them would last a concentrated blast from our resident White Queen.

From that point on, much of the strategy unwravels. There was no opening move to counter Magma's wave of Earth from halting Mammomax and Stacy-X in there tracks. On top of that Meltdown has no air support to stop her from being bludgeoned by Sam.

Dust may eventually reach Emma (we can't forget that Hub does teleport her away) but there is also the chance that one of Amara's lava bursts will hit her. Even in dust form, I'm sure molten rock would do some damage.

[AceOfSpades]

I can't decide either. If Emma is unable to affect Dust in dust form she's pretty screwed. How fast can dust travel in dust form?

I'll admit, Emma will probably be screwed over at one point or another... maybe. But Dust isn't going to be able to stay in Dust form forever, she's going to get tired pretty fast, especially with all that distance she's attempting to cover. She'll go solid at some point and then get taken out. Or, as I said in my previous post a burst of magma will Kentucky fry her.

[Brian M.]

You bring up some good points.

How fast can Dush travel across 100 yards?

[AceOfSpades]

And as for Dead Girl. Her intangibility also poses a problem. But if enough of my team members gang up on her when she tries going solid to slash someone, there is bound to be a hit of some kind or another.

[AceOfSpades]

You bring up some good points.

How fast can Dush travel across 100 yards?

With the wind, very fast I would assume. Without any wind? It can't be too much faster than Cannonball rocketing across the field.

[Mitsaso]

WOW! This battle is gonna rock!!!

I can't decide either. If Emma is unable to affect Dust in dust form she's pretty screwed. How fast can dust travel in dust form?

Honey, if her sand-form is rapid enough to strip human flesh from the bones, getting to a telepathic dominatrix 100 meters away should be less than a second :D

[AceOfSpades]

WOW! This battle is gonna rock!!!

Honey, if her sand-form is rapid enough to strip human flesh from the bones, getting to a telepathic dominatrix 100 meters away should be less than a second :D

100 meters is still quite a distance, she'd be fast.. yes.. But I still argue that it wouldn't be fast enough that Emma can't get off her KO blast on Kiden Nixon and Hellion

[Brian M.]

Yea I do believe Emma would be able to get off her blast before Dust got there...but after that I think Dust's move still works.

How that affects the rest of the match...

[Mitsaso]

First off.. ZNS and Mitsaso , while they did send Dust at Emma, still left the time between Dust turning dusty and Dust reaching Emma for Emma to pretty much screw over Hellion and Kiden Nixon. There is no way the two of them would last a concentrated blast from our resident White Queen.
Dust won't give her enough time to concentrate on her blast.:D

From that point on, much of the strategy unwravels. There was no opening move to counter Magma's wave of Earth from halting Mammomax and Stacy-X in there tracks. On top of that Meltdown has no air support to stop her from being bludgeoned by Sam.
But Mammomax and Stacy get thrown by Hellion across the distance just as the battle begins! They should be mid-air when Magma makes her move. Also, Dead Girl is intangible, Kiden is protected by Hellion's bubble, Hellion and Meltdown have gone up to the sky...there's nobody there for Magma to shake:D


Dust may eventually reach Emma (we can't forget that Hub does teleport her away) but there is also the chance that one of Amara's lava bursts will hit her. Even in dust form, I'm sure molten rock would do some damage.
Hub doesn't teleport Emma right away, so Dust will reach her in no time. And she's too fast to be destroyed by Magma's lava blasts, but Magma is busy shaking the ground where our team began the battle anyway. :)

My rissoto bolognese is waiting for me!!! Don't you people vote while I eat, I can deal with every question once I've eaten:p

[caney]

Wow, both strategies are very well thought out and very detailed. They were fun to read, and I'm having trouble choosing a winner.

I think Emma would be able to do at least some damage to Kiden and a little less damage to Julian before Dust got to her, but once Dust gets there she's in a bit of trouble. So I think the use of Dust is great.

It seems that Hellion is doing alot of things with his TK all at the same time (protecting Kiden, levitating himself, firing TK blasts at Cannonball, launching Stacy X and Mammomax at the other team, etc.). I know his power level has increased recently, but I doubt he has the control to do all that, especially with Emma getting in a bit of an attack before Dust reaches her.

Having Hub teleport Emma to safety is a good idea, but I'm not familiar with Hub. Does Hub have to be near who she's teleporting? If so, she'd have some trouble with Dust there.

I think I'll wait to see more discussion before voting. You guys all did an awesome job. :D

[AceOfSpades]

Dust won't give her enough time to concentrate on her blast.:D

It takes virtually no time at all for Emma to fry Hellion and Kiden Nixon. Its the speed of thought, which is, in most cases, faster than the speed of dust

But Mammomax and Stacy get thrown by Hellion across the distance just as the battle begins! They should be mid-air when Magma makes her move. Also, Dead Girl is intangible, Kiden is protected by Hellion's bubble, Hellion and Meltdown have gone up to the sky...there's nobody there for Magma to shake:D

If Hellion gets taken down by Emma right away... there is no telekine to shield anyone. Or to throw anyone.

Hub doesn't teleport Emma right away, so Dust will reach her in no time. And she's too fast to be destroyed by Magma's lava blasts, but Magma is busy shaking the ground where our team began the battle anyway. :)

My rissoto bolognese is waiting for me!!! Don't you people vote while I eat, I can deal with every question once I've eaten:p
I know Hub doesn't teleport Emma right away... But the only person I had Emma concentrate on after her teleport was Dust anyways. So that really does not change a good portion of my battle plan

and I hope the rissoto tastes good

[Mikl C]

I think Emma will have enough time to take out Hellion. And therefore Magma will take out Mammo and Stacey. I'm leaning towards AoS but I'll hold off until I think more. :)

[AceOfSpades]

I think Emma would be able to do at least some damage to Kiden and a little less damage to Julian before Dust got to her, but once Dust gets there she's in a bit of trouble. So I think the use of Dust is great.

It seems that Hellion is doing alot of things with his TK all at the same time (protecting Kiden, levitating himself, firing TK blasts at Cannonball, launching Stacy X and Mammomax at the other team, etc.). I know his power level has increased recently, but I doubt he has the control to do all that, especially with Emma getting in a bit of an attack before Dust reaches her.
Even if Hellion is still partially concious, you're right, he does seem to be over-exerting himself. And Mammomax is no easy lift either. I still think that Emma's initial blast would take enough out of him to pretty much render him useless.
Having Hub teleport Emma to safety is a good idea, but I'm not familiar with Hub. Does Hub have to be near who she's teleporting? If so, she'd have some trouble with Dust there.


Hub does have to be near her target. Theres a chance she's make it.. theres a good chance she wouldn't make it. But Kiden and Julian would be down by that point, and that was Emma's main purpose

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Im going to, and already have, vote for the HOMOS

It seems that the hellions basically forgot about Dust and she taking care of Emma is crucial, the key move.

[AceOfSpades]

Im going to, and already have, vote for the HOMOS

It seems that the hellions basically forgot about Dust and she taking care of Emma is crucial, the key move.

I didn't forget about Dust... Emma did what she had to and then was taken out. Thats that. a Two for One trade:rolleyes:

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Im talking initial strategy.

Thats the only thing ill base my vote on.

[Brian M.]

I didn't forget about Dust... Emma did what she had to and then was taken out. Thats that. a Two for One trade:rolleyes:


That's kinda the way I look at it.

Both strategies are great, it's just when you try and lace them together to see who would really come out on top is the hard part.

[Atom_basher]

our team is gonna wait for some debating, or some break through match altering oversight to be presented before we vote

[AceOfSpades]

our team is gonna wait for some debating, or some break through match altering oversight to be presented before we vote

well I guess I'll try and keep facilitating a debate then.

Yes.. Dust will probably take out Emma fairly quickly, but not before she has let out her psychic blast. However, because Julian is down (or at least not awake enough to do anything significant), the rest of their plan starts going to pieces. Mammomax and Stacy-X (if they weren't knocked out by Magma's wave) would have nothing to do since they were never thrown, making them easy targets for my strategy backed Toad and X-23. Meltdown would get pummeled and Julian would be down shortly if he was still up.

That leaves me with Magma, X-23, Darwin, Cannonball, Hub, and Toad in comparison to Dead Girl and Dust. Both of whom cannot stay in their form forever, well Dead Girl cannot hope to do damage without becoming tangible.

[Brian M.]

The way I'm seeing it is Emma gets to Hellion and the other before Dust, Dust takes out Emma but Hellion is done. Magma is still sending out her good vibrations and neight Stacy X or Mammomax are up in the air...Kiden Nixon isn't protected so they all surcome to Magma. That's 4 folks out to his 1. Now I know Dust is still probably working up a storm...I don't know.

[AceOfSpades]

The way I'm seeing it is Emma gets to Hellion and the other before Dust, Dust takes out Emma but Hellion is done. Magma is still sending out her good vibrations and neight Stacy X or Mammomax are up in the air...Kiden Nixon isn't protected so they all surcome to Magma. That's 4 folks out to his 1. Now I know Dust is still probably working up a storm...I don't know.

At that point though (after the intitial few waves), Magma is creating her lava blasts from the earth, which she is immune to. If Dust were to get any closer to Amara, she could just lava Dust up without having to worry about being burned.. Amara was the girl who was frolicking in a exploding volcano in THE 198 #1

[Brian M.]

At that point though (after the intitial few waves), Magma is creating her lava blasts from the earth, which she is immune to. If Dust were to get any closer to Amara, she could just lava Dust up without having to worry about being burned.. Amara was the girl who was frolicking in a exploding volcano in THE 198 #1

Ok so Magma is creating lava blasts all around the field? All 100 yards? Won't that affect your team?

[AceOfSpades]

Ok so Magma is creating lava blasts all around the field? All 100 yards? Won't that affect your team?

no.. this is what I said in my strategy
"Magma is making blasts of lava spew forth from the ground at many points across the field, making it difficult for anyone to make it across. She will however refrain from creating the lava bursts where any of her teammates are fighting. Her lava creating actions will continue until the battle is over."

so she is deciding where they go

[Mitsaso]

Yes.. Dust will probably take out Emma fairly quickly, but not before she has let out her psychic blast.
You earlier said that Emma will need a concentrated blast to take out Kiden and (especially) Hellion. I don't think Emma has enough time to concentrate on the both of them before Dust reaches her, and even if she did, she would have seen Dust coming for her and hurried to change in diamond form instead of risking having her expensively manufactured body scraped off her bones. :D Funny thing is, in the initial draft for the strategy we had Esme summoned by Dead Girl right away to mess with Emma and keep her from using her telepathy, but it didn't end up on the final draft. Whatever.


However, because Julian is down (or at least not awake enough to do anything significant), the rest of their plan starts going to pieces.
Even if Emma had used her telepathy in that tiny fraction of the second that she had, it wouldn't be enough to take out a student she tutored herself. Kiden would be more possible to get disabled, but Hellion, as a student of Emma Frost, is bound to be less puny when it comes to telepathic attacks:p


Mammomax and Stacy-X (if they weren't knocked out by Magma's wave) would have nothing to do since they were never thrown, making them easy targets for my strategy backed Toad and X-23. Meltdown would get pummeled and Julian would be down shortly if he was still up.
Mammomax is a beast with invulnerable hide, I don't think Magma's blasts would bother him much, and Stacy would still be on top of him (not it THAT way, naught boys!!:p ) so she'd be pretty unharmed as well, so they're safe from Magma's initial blast no matter what happens with Hellion. And if you teleport X-23 close to Stacy, hey, it just makes Stacy's mission easier, since the first thing she's gotta do is mess with X-23's hormones and (with some help from the lovely Dead Girl), turn her against her own team (Toad is gonna be around her at the time? Oh, woe is he!:D)


That leaves me with Magma, X-23, Darwin, Cannonball, Hub, and Toad in comparison to Dead Girl and Dust. Both of whom cannot stay in their form forever, well Dead Girl cannot hope to do damage without becoming tangible.
Even if Dead Girl was the last woman standing from our team, she can do much more than go intangible and raise the dead. She practically can't die, and even if the opponents gang up on her and rip her into pieces, these pieces would still keep fighting as they put themselves back together. You initial way to deal with her is Emma (a wise choice, as telepathy might be the only way to temporarily disable Dead Girl), but Emma is gonna be out of the game long before that (thanks to Dust and Dead Girl's early-in-the-battle team-up).

[AceOfSpades]

You earlier said that Emma will need a concentrated blast to take out Kiden and (especially) Hellion. I don't think Emma has enough time to concentrate on the both of them before Dust reaches her, and even if she did, she would have seen Dust coming for her and hurried to change in diamond form instead of risking having her expensively manufactured body scraped off her bones. :D Funny thing is, in the initial draft for the strategy we had Esme summoned by Dead Girl right away to mess with Emma and keep her from using her telepathy, but it didn't end up on the final draft. Whatever.


Even if Emma had used her telepathy in that tiny fraction of the second that she had, it wouldn't be enough to take out a student she tutored herself. Kiden would be more possible to get disabled, but Hellion, as a student of Emma Frost, is bound to be less puny when it comes to telepathic attacks:p

Maybe not enough psychic juice to take out Hellion (even though I think his psi defenses are weak enough that damage could be done) but he would be frazzled enough that there is no way he could perform anything you are trying to make him do. Mammomax is a freakin elephant! HUGE and HEAVY! And as for Emma turning diamond. This is war, and she had a mission to do. Maybe she didn't think Dust would kill her. Or maybe she was being selfless for once, but she didn't turn to diamond, she went through with her mission.

Mammomax is a beast with invulnerable hide, I don't think Magma's blasts would bother him much, and Stacy would still be on top of him (not it THAT way, naught boys!!:p ) so she'd be pretty unharmed as well, so they're safe from Magma's initial blast no matter what happens with Hellion. And if you teleport X-23 close to Stacy, hey, it just makes Stacy's mission easier, since the first thing she's gotta do is mess with X-23's hormones and (with some help from the lovely Dead Girl), turn her against her own team (Toad is gonna be around her at the time? Oh, woe is he!:D)

If Stacy is on top of Mammomax, then it makes her an easier target for Toad's mucous, which should gross her out and temporarily make her unable to breathe. She would fall of of the big mammoth and Toad proceeds to kick her. She's out.

Either way it goes, X-23 is rushing towards Mammomax, and there is no way that Stacy-X could grab onto Laura long enough for the pheromone reaction she wanted. If worse comes to worse, Laura cuts off the snake girls arm. So what if Mammomax;s skin is tough.. adamantium is tougher, and X-23's claws shish kabob his achilles tendons.

Even if Dead Girl was the last woman standing from our team, she can do much more than go intangible and raise the dead. She practically can't die, and even if the opponents gang up on her and rip her into pieces, these pieces would still keep fighting as they put themselves back together. You initial way to deal with her is Emma (a wise choice, as telepathy might be the only way to temporarily disable Dead Girl), but Emma is gonna be out of the game long before that (thanks to Dust and Dead Girl's early-in-the-battle team-up).
Yes, but dead girl did die eventually, did she not? she dies alot. Eventually her pieces would be so far scattered across the field.. or so demolished that it would take forever for her to piece back together. I would still have a greater number of people standing at the end.

[AceOfSpades]

(with some help from the lovely Dead Girl), turn her against her own team (Toad is gonna be around her at the time? Oh, woe is he!:D)



and by this point you had already sent Dead Girl across the field (so she could attack my people there). So there is no way she is close enough to affect X-23

[AceOfSpades]

And this thought just occurred to me. Yes, this is a battle, but I can't remember Dust ever killing someone since she joined the X-men when they hard not done her harm first (or her friends). And when I say harm I mean kill. She killed Stryker's minions because they had killed Jay. But no one on my team has done anything to force her into the fury mode.

In any case, she would probably attack a little slower due to the fact that she won't kill Emma. Giving Emma even more time than she is being given credit for

[The Fury]

Great battle people, nice opening moves on both sides.

I'll commment more when I get a better chance.

[Mitsaso]

Maybe not enough psychic juice to take out Hellion (even though I think his psi defenses are weak enough that damage could be done) but he would be frazzled enough that there is no way he could perform anything you are trying to make him do. Mammomax is a freakin elephant! HUGE and HEAVY!
With the recent boost to his powers, Hellion could still do most of these stuff even if he was a little frezzled.


And as for Emma turning diamond. This is war, and she had a mission to do. Maybe she didn't think Dust would kill her. Or maybe she was being selfless for once, but she didn't turn to diamond, she went through with her mission.
Being selfless is kinda out of character for Aunt Emma, now ain't it? :D She's not Jean Grey. She doesn't do selfless. If she saw a killer sandstorm coming for her, she'd hurry up to diamond-up for it and focus later on her initial mission.



If Stacy is on top of Mammomax, then it makes her an easier target for Toad's mucous, which should gross her out and temporarily make her unable to breathe. She would fall of of the big mammoth and Toad proceeds to kick her. She's out.
Stacy has been a prostitute (and a real one after M-Day) for ages! She doesn't gross out! :p Also, she's an expert fighter and (able to challenge even Wolverine, who she defeated while laughing), and even if she fell from Mammomax she would be more than a match for Toad.


Either way it goes, X-23 is rushing towards Mammomax, and there is no way that Stacy-X could grab onto Laura long enough for the pheromone reaction she wanted. If worse comes to worse, Laura cuts off the snake girls arm. So what if Mammomax;s skin is tough.. adamantium is tougher, and X-23's claws shish kabob his achilles tendons. Ok, screw the elephant!:p But Stacy is (as said above) an expert fighter and a good match for Laura. She would definately get to touch her while fighting her, and she doesn't need to actually grab on Laura to use her powers. A single touch is enough. She has done that to Iceman in her first appearance, when she touched him for a fraction of a second and brought him to orgasm :eek:
Iceman Orgasm!! HOT!!!!


Yes, but dead girl did die eventually, did she not? she dies alot. Eventually her pieces would be so far scattered across the field.. or so demolished that it would take forever for her to piece back together. I would still have a greater number of people standing at the end. The single time Dead Girl really died was due to a mysterious illness, nothing was actually done on her. And her pieces keep coming together immediately, so there would be no time to scatter them around the place. She even got burned to a pile of goo once and still came back right afterwards. But you're assuming that all members of your team but Emma would be left to actually gang up on her, and that isn't likely to happen. Even if it did, she can always kill one or two of your guys and raise them to give her a zombie hand against the others.

[Mitsaso]

And this thought just occurred to me. Yes, this is a battle, but I can't remember Dust ever killing someone since she joined the X-men when they hard not done her harm first (or her friends). And when I say harm I mean kill. She killed Stryker's minions because they had killed Jay. But no one on my team has done anything to force her into the fury mode.

In any case, she would probably attack a little slower due to the fact that she won't kill Emma. Giving Emma even more time than she is being given credit for
It's the battle's opening move, Dust knows exactly what to do and fury or rage have nothing to do with how fast she will go. Whoever talked about killing? The plan is to shatter Emma, not kill her. Hellion can always put her back (after they sell the pieces, of course :p) However, Emma doesn't know if Dust is going lethal or not, and won't be willing to risk it. Even if she knew that Dust only planned to hurt her and not kill her, she'd still go into diamond form ASAP to protect her precious beauty. Killer sand scratching your flawless skin?!?!? That's a no-risk.:D

[Mitsaso]

and by this point you had already sent Dead Girl across the field (so she could attack my people there). So there is no way she is close enough to affect X-23

But Dead Girl's initial move isn't "randomly goes across the field". Check our strategy again. The first thing she does is to go intangible, then she proceeds towards wherever X-23 is. Bringing X-23 to our area only helps Stacy and Dead Girl get rid of her more quickly.:)

[AceOfSpades]

With the recent boost to his powers, Hellion could still do most of these stuff even if he was a little frezzled.
He got the boost in powers, but has little control. The paper clip he tried making dance blew a hole in the floor. And with Emma messing with his mind its likely to be even more out of control.. You'd probably punch a hole in Mammomax and Stacy if that was the case.


Being selfless is kinda out of character for Aunt Emma, now ain't it? :D She's not Jean Grey. She doesn't do selfless. If she saw a killer sandstorm coming for her, she'd hurry up to diamond-up for it and focus later on her initial mission.
I think you don't give Emma enough credit. She never abandons her team (okay, that time in Dangerous doesn't count Cassie X was messing with her) and actually does have some selflessness.


Stacy has been a prostitute (and a real one after M-Day) for ages! She doesn't gross out! :p Also, she's an expert fighter and (able to challenge even Wolverine, who she defeated while laughing), and even if she fell from Mammomax she would be more than a match for Toad.
If she fell from Mammomax it would either be because she was tossed off or cause Toad spit at her. She should be disoriented in either case, making Toad a match for her.

Ok, screw the elephant! But Stacy is (as said above) an expert fighter and a good match for Laura. She would definately get to touch her while fighting her, and she doesn't need to actually grab on Laura to use her powers. A single touch is enough. She has done that to Iceman in her first appearance, when she touched him for a fraction of a second and brought him to orgasm :eek:
Iceman Orgasm!! HOT!!!!
If Stacy is busy with Toad, or Toad's goop, she can't possibly deal with Laura. And Iceman hasn't been laid in so long that just a lick alone would probably illicit that reaction. :D

The single time Dead Girl really died was due to a mysterious illness, nothing was actually done on her. And her pieces keep coming together immediately, so there would be no time to scatter them around the place. She even got burned to a pile of goo once and still came back right afterwards. But you're assuming that all members of your team but Emma would be left to actually gang up on her, and that isn't likely to happen. Even if it did, she can always kill one or two of your guys and raise them to give her a zombie hand against the others.
Dead Girl would still have her limits though, and I can still knock her out, which takes her out of the fight. If she goes solid at all, we can lay a hand on her. It may take a couple of attempts, but eventually someone like Toad could wrap his tongue around her or Magma could burn her or something. I'm just saying that the overwhelming odds are not in her favor at that point.

[AceOfSpades]

But Dead Girl's initial move isn't "randomly goes across the field". Check our strategy again. The first thing she does is to go intangible, then she proceeds towards wherever X-23 is. Bringing X-23 to our area only helps Stacy and Dead Girl get rid of her more quickly.:)

Yes, but Dead Girl will have already started toward X-23, who was across the field for a few seconds (she waits till Magma is done sending the waves before she teleports with Hub.) Then X-23 is suddenly behind all of the enemy, forcing DG to reorient herself for a few more seconds before coming back.:D

Also, Adamantium is so dense that it oftentimes harms even those people that are intangible. If Dead Girl is anywhere near X-23, she's in for a lot of pain.:p

[Mitsaso]

He got the boost in powers, but has little control. The paper clip he tried making dance blew a hole in the floor. And with Emma messing with his mind its likely to be even more out of control.. You'd probably punch a hole in Mammomax and Stacy if that was the case.
Which is why we have Mammomax (with the invulnerable hide) be the one thrown away and Stacy simply on top of him (she's not invulnerable but her snake hide can still take the throw). But even if he squashed them like bugs, he would do the same with Hub, Toad and X-23 who would have teleported to them by that moment
CRUNCH!



I think you don't give Emma enough credit. She never abandons her team (okay, that time in Dangerous doesn't count Cassie X was messing with her) and actually does have some selflessness.
Well, doesn't Emma still have Cassie inside of her (NOT in the lesbian way, you naughty perverts!!!:eek: )? If the changes by the end of "Torn" don't count for Cyclops, they don't count for Emma too, so Cassie's influence is still in her mind, making her even less selfless at the point. Granted, I think Emma's only moments of selflessness come when it comes to Cyke (whom she loves with all her predator heart). But in this specific case, no, she wouldn't sacrifice herself for just one more second at trying to disable Hellion and Kiden.




If Stacy is busy with Toad, or Toad's goop, she can't possibly deal with Laura.
The point is that Stacy's first mission is Laura. If she sees Laura and Toad coming at her and Mammomax, she won't just stay on top of Mammo and ogle... she'd jump straight at Laura and let the elephant deal with the other guy.

And Iceman hasn't been laid in so long that just a lick alone would probably illicit that reaction.
You're being mean to my precious Bobby. :(


Dead Girl would still have her limits though, and I can still knock her out, which takes her out of the fight. If she goes solid at all, we can lay a hand on her. It may take a couple of attempts, but eventually someone like Toad could wrap his tongue around her or Magma could burn her or something. I'm just saying that the overwhelming odds are not in her favor at that point.
Maybe, but the only way in your strategy to get rid of her and Dust was Emma, and she's not an option anymore, because she's either offed or sacrificed (depending on which strategy prevails initially) at the beggining. Even if the rest of our strategy goes completely off balance, Dust and Dead Girl will remain (you say so in your strategy). You wrongfully assumed that Emma would get rid of Dust, which wouldn't happen even if Emma was still around, because Dust can't even be scanned when in Dust-form. Also, Dust can keep her sand-form for several hours (in her first appearance she spent a whole issue lying around in sand-form while Jean and the X-Corps in India hang around the place), so getting exerted while in this form isn't a possibility. Her and Dead Girl (for the reasons I mentioned in my above posts) are really hard to beat even with 4 or 5 of your members being still in the game. And the only way your initial strategy dealt with them was Emma's telepathy, which is now out of the question.


Yes, but Dead Girl will have already started toward X-23, who was across the field for a few seconds (she waits till Magma is done sending the waves before she teleports with Hub.) Then X-23 is suddenly behind all of the enemy, forcing DG to reorient herself for a few more seconds before coming back. Those few seconds don't matter for DG because she will have to wait for Stacy to upset Laura's hormones anyway. But when you said that I sent DG across the field, you made it sound like DG would be a 100 yards away when Laura teleported there!:p


Also, Adamantium is so dense that it oftentimes harms even those people that are intangible. If Dead Girl is anywhere near X-23, she's in for a lot of pain.
DG doesn't mind pain. She once set up a road show with Anarchist where he would shoot her, maim her, and do other horrible things to her in front of the audience and she had fun while having all these things done to her.:D

[AceOfSpades]

Which is why we have Mammomax (with the invulnerable hide) be the one thrown away and Stacy simply on top of him (she's not invulnerable but her snake hide can still take the throw). But even if he squashed them like bugs, he would do the same with Hub, Toad and X-23 who would have teleported to them by that moment
CRUNCH!
I was saying though, that even if Julian retained some bit of conciousness after Emma's blast, he'd be dazed. Dazed people don't think straight. Add that to the fact that his powers are borderline uncontrollable right now, and Mammomax and Stacy-X could end up in space for all we know.And I also didn't say that the three teleported right next to them. They are behind enemy lines and may be out of Julians blast zone


The point is that Stacy's first mission is Laura. If she sees Laura and Toad coming at her and Mammomax, she won't just stay on top of Mammo and ogle... she'd jump straight at Laura and let the elephant deal with the other guy.

But you could say the same for Toad. His main target is Stacy-X. And he has a projectile, albeit its a smaller distance, so he would get to Stacy before Stacy would get to Laura. And after all that stuff happening with Julian, she should be a little confused too.


Maybe, but the only way in your strategy to get rid of her and Dust was Emma, and she's not an option anymore, because she's either offed or sacrificed (depending on which strategy prevails initially) at the beggining. Even if the rest of our strategy goes completely off balance, Dust and Dead Girl will remain (you say so in your strategy). You wrongfully assumed that Emma would get rid of Dust, which wouldn't happen even if Emma was still around, because Dust can't even be scanned when in Dust-form. Also, Dust can keep her sand-form for several hours (in her first appearance she spent a whole issue lying around in sand-form while Jean and the X-Corps in India hang around the place), so getting exerted while in this form isn't a possibility. Her and Dead Girl (for the reasons I mentioned in my above posts) are really hard to beat even with 4 or 5 of your members being still in the game. And the only way your initial strategy dealt with them was Emma's telepathy, which is now out of the question.
Like I said.. Dust can get tired. In NXM she was a pile of dust for hours, not a constantly moving cloud of dust. She will get tired using that much energy in that short amount of time and she WILL have to go solid eventually. Magma is fiery, and probably the closest other member to Dust, so if Dust goes after her next there could be some fire/lava complications for our Afghan friend. As for Dead Girl.. she can still be knocked out, which ( I don't think) would activate her coming back to life powers. I could be wrong.

Those few seconds don't matter for DG because she will have to wait for Stacy to upset Laura's hormones anyway. But when you said that I sent DG across the field, you made it sound like DG would be a 100 yards away when Laura teleported there!:p


DG doesn't mind pain. She once set up a road show with Anarchist where he would shoot her, maim her, and do other horrible things to her in front of the audience and she had fun while having all these things done to her.:D

I didn't mean to say that DG was all the way across the field... but she isn't necessarily close either. By the time she gets back, Stacy should already be dealt with... or at least in the process of being dealt with.

And with the pain thing.. She doesn't have to die... the adamantium won't kill her in that form, but pain can sometimes disorient people. I don't care if she can come back to life, pain is still pain, and it may have at least a little affect on her.

[AceOfSpades]

Sam is very powerful and pretty much impervious to harm…but not when Dust, in sandstorm mode, attacks him, gets into his pants and all the moving sand in there gives him serious burns in the butt and between the thighs!

I'm also wondering how Dust is going to do this. Cannonball's blast shield protected him from a punch from Gladiator, how are particles of Dust supposed to make it through? I highly doubt she's be able to infiltrate his pantalones and give him the proposed nasty jock-itch.

[The Lucky One]

I highly doubt she's be able to infiltrate his pantalones and give him the proposed nasty jock-itch.

No, I'm pretty sure that was Boom-Boom.

-D

[Mitsaso]

Crap, double post!

[Mitsaso]

I was saying though, that even if Julian retained some bit of conciousness after Emma's blast, he'd be dazed. Dazed people don't think straight. Add that to the fact that his powers are borderline uncontrollable right now, and Mammomax and Stacy-X could end up in space for all we know.And I also didn't say that the three teleported right next to them. They are behind enemy lines and may be out of Julians blast zone
If they're behind enemy lines then how will they reach Mammo and Stacy X, who are supposed to have just bolted the other way? If they're close enough to surprise-attack Stacy and Mammo, they're close enough to get in the way of Julian's blast.




But you could say the same for Toad. His main target is Stacy-X. And he has a projectile, albeit its a smaller distance, so he would get to Stacy before Stacy would get to Laura. And after all that stuff happening with Julian, she should be a little confused too.
Experienced prostitutes like Stacy have MASSIVE experience in dealing with "projectiles", if you know what I mean ;) And really, what chance does a man like Toad have against her touch?
Dont. Underestimate. The HO.



Like I said.. Dust can get tired. In NXM she was a pile of dust for hours, not a constantly moving cloud of dust. She will get tired using that much energy in that short amount of time and she WILL have to go solid eventually. Magma is fiery, and probably the closest other member to Dust, so if Dust goes after her next there could be some fire/lava complications for our Afghan friend. As for Dead Girl.. she can still be knocked out, which ( I don't think) would activate her coming back to life powers. I could be wrong.
Dust's....well, dust, will have to be really concentrated for Magma's lava to do her any damage. Given how the terrain is a barren wasteland, she can camouflage her way up to anyone, or just go into full lethal mode (seeing how her team is supposed to be taken out) and make human confetti out of everyone :)



I didn't mean to say that DG was all the way across the field... but she isn't necessarily close either. By the time she gets back, Stacy should already be dealt with... or at least in the process of being dealt with.
It doesn't matter, Stacy needs some time to touch Laura first anyway, so DG should have enough time to approach them and maybe help out in the battle.


And with the pain thing.. She doesn't have to die... the adamantium won't kill her in that form, but pain can sometimes disorient people. I don't care if she can come back to life, pain is still pain, and it may have at least a little affect on her.
Pain to Dead Girl is less than it is for Wolverine. Also, you don't know if x-23's adamantium will affect Dead Girl at all. She doesn't go intangible the way Kitty Pryde and others do, it's more of a ghost/zombie/mystical thing.


I'm also wondering how Dust is going to do this. Cannonball's blast shield protected him from a punch from Gladiator, how are particles of Dust supposed to make it through? I highly doubt she's be able to infiltrate his pantalones and give him the proposed nasty jock-itch.
Yeah but for Sam to mantain his blast shield he'll have to be blasting around the whole time, something impossible, not manageable and possibly tiring for him. And HALF a second is enough for Dust to access his sexy panties. Murphy's Law says so! lol



Acey, I hope we're not tiring the good people at CBR with our endless debating... maybe we got them confused on how to keep up with this talk and now they don't bother voting....lol

[venuscameback]

Two entertaining, well-written strategies, but I feel AceOfSpades' has less flaws

As Emma Frost trained Hellion, and she knows she's going to face him in this match, I'm confident she can take him out pretty easy(and Emma is probably a little like Batman, planning ways to beat her allies even as she works with them), and Kiden Nixon has no known psi-defences to prevent Emma knocking her out.

That may well leave Emma exposed to Dust's attack, but so much of Mitsaso & Zombie Northstar's strategy hinges on Hellion & Kiden Nixon that their loss is more significant. Without Hellion, for example, they have no strategised way of dealing with Darwin. They leave it late in striking against Magma, too, which allows her to take control of the battlefield.

On the other hand, I don't see it a problem for Dust to eventually weave her way through Cannonball's blast field; he can breathe, afterall, so some stuff can clearly get through, but it may take a little time for Dust to do so. In the meantime her dust cloud's probably blocking his vision and distracting him.

It'sa tricky one to call because neither strategies opening moves go to plan, but i'm calling this for AceofSpades

[Zombienorthstar]

1)And Thus it Begins Emma simultaneously attacks Kiden Nixon and Hellion with ruthless psychic bolts. Not enough to kill the two of them, but enough to take them out of the fight. Kiden Nixon has not been thoroughly trained against psychic attacks, and thus she’s easy to take down. While Julian has been a student at the Institute, Emma would be his psi defense teacher, and there’s no way the student could beat the master. Even if Stacy-X tries to give Kiden an adrenaline rush, there is no way that could happen before Emma disables the child.

2)If Kiden Nixon does stop time, there should be at least a little disturbance in the shape of the terrain, making it more difficult for her to cross, which would put into the question how long she can maintain the time stop without putting strain on her body.

3)Even if Dust is dust at that point, she will still have a mind to attack.



Adressing these three points:

1) If your arguing that Emma makes her first move at the speed of thought that's fair enough...now arguably yes, she could take down Kiden first (even though Dust is rapid enough to stop her) but Hellion would take her a little longer (even if it's only a matter of miliseconds) If Hellion is ALSO operating at the speed of thought...then he'd have ample opputunity to throw Mammomax and Stacy

2) Kiden once stoped time for three months...so im sure she'd be able to keep it up more than long enough to struggle over the terrain.

3) No, she doesnt. Xavier himself couldnt control Dust in her sand form...even when she was ripping flesh from his skin. He said her mind was 'nearly undetectable' (direct quote) in said form...if its hard to even notice the minds there...then it would be impossible to control or hurt.

[The Lucky One]

As Emma Frost trained Hellion, and she knows she's going to face him in this match, I'm confident she can take him out pretty easy(and Emma is probably a little like Batman, planning ways to beat her allies even as she works with them)

As I recall, that's what she did for her previous prodigy, Empath.

-D

[AceOfSpades]

If they're behind enemy lines then how will they reach Mammo and Stacy X, who are supposed to have just bolted the other way? If they're close enough to surprise-attack Stacy and Mammo, they're close enough to get in the way of Julian's blast.

Well, if Julian was unsuccessful in sending them over (which I am assuming he is) then they still will be close. There is a chance they may get blasted, but there is a chance Julian is already out. And I do think Emma would be able to breach Julians defeces (she pretty much made them)


Experienced prostitutes like Stacy have MASSIVE experience in dealing with "projectiles", if you know what I mean And really, what chance does a man like Toad have against her touch?
Dont. Underestimate. The HO.

Oh, I'm not underestimating the HO, but even prostitutes get in situations they can't handle sometimes. And this is one of them. Flying gloop at her face will bring her sluttiness to a stop. If he misses Toad would just hack another loogie until he gets it right.

Dust's....well, dust, will have to be really concentrated for Magma's lava to do her any damage. Given how the terrain is a barren wasteland, she can camouflage her way up to anyone, or just go into full lethal mode (seeing how her team is supposed to be taken out) and make human confetti out of everyone :)

I find it hard to believe that Magma is not supposed to notice the magic cloud of muslim fury that took out Emma. She's probably the closest and thereby is most likely able to react. Even if Magma didn't completly burn up dust, or lava-fy her, losing those particles would still cause a little damage I assume. and if Magma is in fire mode, which she automatically is in when using her powers, then I don't even know if Dust can touch her without bad stuff happening.


Pain to Dead Girl is less than it is for Wolverine. Also, you don't know if x-23's adamantium will affect Dead Girl at all. She doesn't go intangible the way Kitty Pryde and others do, it's more of a ghost/zombie/mystical thing.

I was just pointing this out. I don't know for a fact that adamantium is a bitch to all intangible people, but it is really dense and there is always the chance that it could cause some harm.

Yeah but for Sam to mantain his blast shield he'll have to be blasting around the whole time, something impossible, not manageable and possibly tiring for him. And HALF a second is enough for Dust to access his sexy panties. Murphy's Law says so! lol

I think Dust would tire out before Cannonball.. he has pretty good.. Stamina:D

Acey, I hope we're not tiring the good people at CBR with our endless debating... maybe we got them confused on how to keep up with this talk and now they don't bother voting....lol

Oh, I'm sure people are tired of our attacking each other.. but its turned into a great debate so far:D

[AceOfSpades]

Adressing these three points:

1) If your arguing that Emma makes her first move at the speed of thought that's fair enough...now arguably yes, she could take down Kiden first (even though Dust is rapid enough to stop her) but Hellion would take her a little longer (even if it's only a matter of miliseconds) If Hellion is ALSO operating at the speed of thought...then he'd have ample opputunity to throw Mammomax and Stacy
Emma operates on the LEVEL of thought also, whereas Julian does operates with the speed of thought, he also has to translate it into the physical aspect. He may start trying to lift Mammomax, but I don't think the throwong would be able to happen. And as a few people have stated, there is a good chance Emma built a back door into Julians mind that he doesn't know about.

2) Kiden once stoped time for three months...so im sure she'd be able to keep it up more than long enough to struggle over the terrain.

Not a problem.. she's already taken out, Emma zaps her from the start.

3) No, she doesnt. Xavier himself couldnt control Dust in her sand form...even when she was ripping flesh from his skin. He said her mind was 'nearly undetectable' (direct quote) in said form...if its hard to even notice the minds there...then it would be impossible to control or hurt.
I accept this, Mitsaso and I have argued about this:D

[Zombienorthstar]

Well, if Julian was unsuccessful in sending them over (which I am assuming he is) then they still will be close. There is a chance they may get blasted, but there is a chance Julian is already out. And I do think Emma would be able to breach Julians defeces (she pretty much made them)

Yes but you agknowledge that while she did make her defences it would take her every so slightly (even if only a second longer) to hurt Julian. This wouldn't be a big issue...if tiny sand particles going fast enough to strip flesh weren't aiming for her head. If this is your arguement then i suppose Kiden might be hurt...but im confident Sooraya would get there before she could totally get Julian.


Oh, I'm not underestimating the HO, but even prostitutes get in situations they can't handle sometimes. And this is one of them. Flying gloop at her face will bring her sluttiness to a stop. If he misses Toad would just hack another loogie until he gets it right.

If Stacy and Toad are fighting then arguably...Toad wouldnt be able to spit adhesive at her...as she controls bodily functions...and therefore no ones spitting up unless a) she's far away b) she lets them.


I find it hard to believe that Magma is not supposed to notice the magic cloud of muslim fury that took out Emma. She's probably the closest and thereby is most likely able to react. Even if Magma didn't completly burn up dust, or lava-fy her, losing those particles would still cause a little damage I assume. and if Magma is in fire mode, which she automatically is in when using her powers, then I don't even know if Dust can touch her without bad stuff happening.


Even if initially Dust was the 'big cloud' she'd be able to go totally indetectable if need be. Such as in the issue featuring X-Corporation Mumbai in which we first met Dust. The only people who could sense she was in the room were Phoenix and Wolverine. Even others such as Warpath, Feral and Thornn couldn't detect her.

[Zombienorthstar]

Emma operates on the LEVEL of thought also, whereas Julian does operates with the speed of thought, he also has to translate it into the physical aspect. He may start trying to lift Mammomax, but I don't think the throwong would be able to happen. And as a few people have stated, there is a good chance Emma built a back door into Julians mind that he doesn't know about.

That's assumption based on Emma's character...with no actual contextual evidence.

And here's a big point. I don't think Emma will have had much to do with Julian's actual psychic education. The majority of when Julian was first learning to use his powers was prior to decimation...when people such as Jean would still have been giving the lessons. Why would Emma give classes in telekinesis? A power she doesn't actually have. I assume that Emma was up until recently acting in only a pastoral role for Julian. There is no proof of this...but similarly there is no evidence of her EVER teaching him to use his powers....only emotionally supporting him.

[AceOfSpades]

Yes but you agknowledge that while she did make her defences it would take her every so slightly (even if only a second longer) to hurt Julian. This wouldn't be a big issue...if tiny sand particles going fast enough to strip flesh weren't aiming for her head. If this is your arguement then i suppose Kiden might be hurt...but im confident Sooraya would get there before she could totally get Julian.
She may not be able to fully take out Julian, but she's gonna be able to shake him up enough where he's disoriented and probably won't be able to use his powers really well. Shields would drop and his concentration would be broken. And then Darwin pummels him if he isn't actually down. This is the woman who pushed the ecstasy button in the heads of entire crowd once, she's no low level telepath. She mind f*%^$ed Scott Summers, who has had plenty of psy experience. Julian is mincemeat to her.



If Stacy and Toad are fighting then arguably...Toad wouldnt be able to spit adhesive at her...as she controls bodily functions...and therefore no ones spitting up unless a) she's far away b) she lets them.

Toad never starts directly next to Stacy, they teleport nearby, but not directly on top of. He has the upperhand, especially cause Stacy is looking for X-23


Even if initially Dust was the 'big cloud' she'd be able to go totally indetectable if need be. Such as in the issue featuring X-Corporation Mumbai in which we first met Dust. The only people who could sense she was in the room were Phoenix and Wolverine. Even others such as Warpath, Feral and Thornn couldn't detect her.

There's still the chance someone would catch a glimpse of her though. And she may be hit by one of Magma's lava bursts.

[mattbib]

Zombienorthstar & Mitsaso, you cannot both vote in a round. You, as a team, can only vote once per round.

[AceOfSpades]

That's assumption based on Emma's character...with no actual contextual evidence.

And here's a big point. I don't think Emma will have had much to do with Julian's actual psychic education. The majority of when Julian was first learning to use his powers was prior to decimation...when people such as Jean would still have been giving the lessons. Why would Emma give classes in telekinesis? A power she doesn't actually have. I assume that Emma was up until recently acting in only a pastoral role for Julian. There is no proof of this...but similarly there is no evidence of her EVER teaching him to use his powers....only emotionally supporting him.

Touché. I never said she taught him telekinesis.. that would just be weird. But I do think she probably had a hand in whatever psychic training he had, even if Jean did too.Either way, Jean was dead (presumably) before he had spent too long at the institute anyways. My point is Emma would still far outdo any defenses Julian had. She is the master TP on campus and has no problem looking into people's minds when she wants.

[Mitsaso]

Zombienorthstar & Mitsaso, you cannot both vote in a round. You, as a team, can only vote once per round.
Yup, I realised that right before Zombie voted as well.
Anyway, the second vote doesn't count.

I'm off to bed, Lewis, protect our honor while I rest and snore!!! :D

[Zombienorthstar]

Touché. I never said she taught him telekinesis.. that would just be weird. But I do think she probably had a hand in whatever psychic training he had, even if Jean did too.Either way, Jean was dead (presumably) before he had spent too long at the institute anyways. My point is Emma would still far outdo any defenses Julian had. She is the master TP on campus and has no problem looking into people's minds when she wants.

My arguement is that Emma and Julian share no powers and therefore she was probably only his academic/pastoral teacher until Decimation forced her to take over.

[AceOfSpades]

Yup, I realised that right before Zombie voted as well.
Anyway, the second vote doesn't count.

I'm off to bed, Lewis, protect our honor while I rest and snore!!! :D

You're lucky that you have two people to ward off attacks... doing this by myself is draining:D

Oh well, and thus the debate continues.
I was really surprised you guys made no attempt to have Stacy-X cause an adrenaline rush for Kiden Nixon, I was worried you might try that. But I guess not

[AceOfSpades]

My arguement is that Emma and Julian share no powers and therefore she was probably only his academic/pastoral teacher until Decimation forced her to take over.

And I tried countering that with the fact that she may have had a hand in his psychic defense training. Its impossible to really know either way. But Emma can be invasive sometimes, and I would expect her to take personal interest in a way to get into one of her prized students minds.

[Zombienorthstar]

Toad never starts directly next to Stacy, they teleport nearby, but not directly on top of. He has the upperhand, especially cause Stacy is looking for X-23

Yes but if he gets in a position where he can spit in her face...im guessing she'll be aware enough of him to use her innate abbilities.



There's still the chance someone would catch a glimpse of her though. And she may be hit by one of Magma's lava bursts.

And that chance is very slim....consideirng she could theoretcally be scattered over the entire field

Irregardless....Magmas lava wouldnt hurt her in sand form.

[Zombienorthstar]

You're lucky that you have two people to ward off attacks... doing this by myself is draining:D

Oh well, and thus the debate continues.
I was really surprised you guys made no attempt to have Stacy-X cause an adrenaline rush for Kiden Nixon, I was worried you might try that. But I guess not

We did...but in terms of where Stacy and Kiden had to be individually it was just unworkable.

And I tried countering that with the fact that she may have had a hand in his psychic defense training. Its impossible to really know either way. But Emma can be invasive sometimes, and I would expect her to take personal interest in a way to get into one of her prized students minds.

I suppose...thats the point we cant make assumptions. We cant assume Frost had nothing to do with his psychic education...just as we cant assume she was building a 'backdoor' into his mind. Neither should count towards the strategy.

[Mitsaso]

You're lucky that you have two people to ward off attacks... doing this by myself is draining:D

Oh well, and thus the debate continues.
I was really surprised you guys made no attempt to have Stacy-X cause an adrenaline rush for Kiden Nixon, I was worried you might try that. But I guess not
This move was actually used in the initial draft, but it didn't end up in the final one.:o

Also, I wanna point out how much more interesting Mutant League would become if no telepaths were used... most battles begin with "our resident telepath wipes the mind of the big gun of the opponent", which takes away most of the fun. Also, two of the matches so far were judged upon whether team 1 would take out team's 2 telepath out before they did some damage, and both were judged upon "speed of thought is grater than anything else".
Whether it's Dust/Emma or Tempo/Prof X
I knew that telepaths were "all that" the moment I saw all of them being drafted before our turn for the first draft came, but even then I hoped contestants wouldn't settle for the cliched "have our telepath off their most dangerous member" opening.:(

[AceOfSpades]

Yes but if he gets in a position where he can spit in her face...im guessing she'll be aware enough of him to use her innate abbilities.

He could still be a few feet away and get her with his goop. Even if it grazes her, it may throw her off balance and make it easier for another try. (and don't say she has experience with being hit with large amounts of viscous material:p )



And that chance is very slim....consideirng she could theoretcally be scattered over the entire field

Irregardless....Magmas lava wouldnt hurt her in sand form.

Hurt her? It might. Trap her? Most definitely. She could lose so much of her mass, or all of it, to lava flows and such. And she'll have to keep moving with some speed to avoid Magma's random lava bursts I have her making across the field.

[AceOfSpades]

This move was actually used in the initial draft, but it didn't end up in the final one.:o

Also, I wanna point out how much more interesting Mutant League would become if no telepaths were used... most battles begin with "our resident telepath wipes the mind of the big gun of the opponent", which takes away most of the fun. Also, two of the matches so far were judged upon whether team 1 would take out team's 2 telepath out before they did some damage, and both were judged upon "speed of thought is grater than anything else".
Whether it's Dust/Emma or Tempo/Prof X
I knew that telepaths were "all that" the moment I saw all of them being drafted before our turn for the first draft came, but even then I hoped contestants wouldn't settle for the cliched "have our telepath off their most dangerous member" opening.:(

Sorry about that... I in know way wanted to make this less fun for either of you. But I chose Emma, and I had to play to her strengths.

[Zombienorthstar]

On an unrelated note....ours has by far been one of the better matches so far.

[AceOfSpades]

On an unrelated note....ours has by far been one of the better matches so far.
I thought Tre v. ULTVOL was also very good. they actually had more than just the two people competing commenting alot:p

[Brian M.]

I thought Tre v. ULTVOL was also very good. they actually had more than just the two people competing commenting alot:p

That's one of the problems with getting players like Xavier or Rachel or Emma, they can do it all if your team has no psi-defense, but it takes the fun out of the entire match if we just open up and say, Since Team B has no psi-d, Xavier walks up 2 feet and puts the other team to sleep, game over.

You have to play to what you think the voters will like to read aswell. I don't think it's fair to vote against someone b/c they've got a strong telepath. In this match I like the move with Emma but the one with Dust takes Emma out. Sadly she takes out Hellion and that leaves the other team open to Magma...which I think gives it to Aces.

[AceOfSpades]

That's one of the problems with getting players like Xavier or Rachel or Emma, they can do it all if your team has no psi-defense, but it takes the fun out of the entire match if we just open up and say, Since Team B has no psi-d, Xavier walks up 2 feet and puts the other team to sleep, game over.

Thank God someone besides Zombie, Mitsaso, and I posted in this debate. I was getting lonely.:o

And I understand that stance about psychics. I tried to vary my strategy and not have Emma take out everyone at once (except Dust of course because she had already turned to dust:p ). And all the fights I've seen so far have at least attempted to make it interesting. Yours and Tre's, and the Nightcrawler/Jessica Drew and Dipset fight.

[The Lucky One]

I knew that telepaths were "all that" the moment I saw all of them being drafted before our turn for the first draft came, but even then I hoped contestants wouldn't settle for the cliched "have our telepath off their most dangerous member" opening.:(

Quite honestly? In past years they've been undervalued, not overvalued. Voters reward creativity, and telepaths are the antithesis of creativity. If you gave me a choice between a moderately powerful telepath and pre-HoM Quicksilver, I'd go with Pietro every time. 'Paths certainly have their uses, but you still need to use them innovatively, not just say "Professor X puts the other team to sleep, I win. Hur hur hur." Doesn't work in the comics, doesn't work here.

(And if *&$%# Tre hadn't drafted Rogue first, I wouldn't have had to get Rachel. But that's another story. ;) )

-D

[AceOfSpades]

(And if *&$%# Tre hadn't drafted Rogue first, I wouldn't have had to get Rachel. But that's another story. ;) )

-D

I'm guessing you won't tell us why for the sake of your strategy?:D

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

I love psis as much as everyone else, but I would rather have a teleporter than a psi.

[The Lucky One]

Irregardless....Magmas lava wouldnt hurt her in sand form.

Er... as a geology minor, might I advise you as to what lava traditionally does to sand? Does the word "silicate" mean anything to you?
;)

-D

[AceOfSpades]

I love psis as much as everyone else, but I would rather have a teleporter than a psi.

Blink was one of my top choices besides Emma... you just got to her first. Hence my choice of Hub:p

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

blink is like a uber teleporter

[AceOfSpades]

Er... as a geology minor, might I advise you as to what lava traditionally does to sand? Does the word "silicate" mean anything to you?
;)

-D

Thank You! Magma would be able to do some damage to Dust if she hit her. I know dust isn't necessarily sand but its pretty close, small particles and the such.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

This is a classic battle. My vote will come soon.

[Gene M.]

Easily the best matchup so far. It was close, but I had to go with H*O*M*O*S.

[Dipset Byrd Gang]

what about my match. Aces gets my vote.

[AceOfSpades]

I've decided that it was the best decision of the past year to do Mutant League.. So much fun!

I mean where else can you debate whether or not a telepathic attack is faster than speeding dust?:p

[Jessica Drew]

Didn't know if I'd ever get a chance to vote one this one. Saw it briefly this morning, then real life kicked me off the computer and had me on the run all day. Anyway...

Again, another great match, and as much as I LOVED the following:

"Stacy X has mounted Mammomax (steady…) she’s basically on his back as if piggy backing. Hellion launches them in the air towards the opposing team. Julian doesn’t really mind, he’s a weird elephant guy and she’s a creepy snake skank. When they near above the other team, Stacy activates her pheromone powers which can control bodily functions and makes Mammomax vomit. He spews acid chunks over the other team."

...and I mean that I laughed so loudly I woke my daughter, causing me to have to get off the computer...anyway, as much as I loved the creativity and humor there, I have to give this one to AceOfSpades, for I think that Emma takes out both Julian and Kiden before Dust gets to her, and once those two are gone, Magma (and Darwin and others) take control.

[The Lucky One]

It's close, but I've got to give this one to the (*cringe*) H*O*M*O*S. Both teams showed creativity, but I think not having Emma immediately psi-bolt Dust hurt Ace's team... if that sandstorm starts whipping around her she'll lose focus, and that makes Zombie and Mitsie's strategy more likely to prevail. I still think there are things they're taking for granted -- particularly with Kiden Nixon, who generally doesn't "psych" herself up to use her powers... it's usually an unconscious reaction to pain or threats (hence why I had to have Scalphunter threaten to shoot her every match last year) -- but I do think their strategy would prevail.

Awesome match!

-D

[venuscameback]

Thank God someone besides Zombie, Mitsaso, and I posted in this debate. I was getting lonely.:o

Hey, don't I count? :(

[AceOfSpades]

Hey, don't I count? :(

You count, but it had been a while since you had posted that. :D I still love you

[mattbib]

Final score is 17:14. Congratulations AceOfSpades!

We'll see you face off against the winner of Game 4 next Tuesday morning, while Zombienorthstar & Mitsaso will move to the lower bracket and face Game 4's loser that afternoon.

[Mitsaso]

:(
*goes to cry on his bed*



Nah, kidding, it was a great match (the best one so far) and we wish Ace the best of luck in his next match...!:D

[Zombienorthstar]

Damn....we easily went up against one of the best competitors...good game Ace.

[AceOfSpades]

Mitsaso and ZombieNorthstar:

You guys were so great, I couldn't have asked for a better match. It was so much fun! And don't fret too much.. It's double elimination, you could always come back and wipe the floor with me:D

You guys rock!