The X-Men Movies

[PrimeTimeLynzo]

I really liked the X-Men movies but I had a few probloms with them like:

-No Gambit
-The way Jean Grey just became the phoenix,and I said nothing about her being the guardian of the crystal that was in the sun...
-The way the story just ended in X-Men 3....Becuase there is SOOOO much more to tell...

LMK what your thoughts are about the X-Men movies...

[Beast]

You do realize that the movies arn't supposed to be comic canon, right?

[PanzerMega]

I thought the first movie was really solid, until the lame mutant machine garbage. Then it went downhill.

The second movie was fantastic.

The third movie was kind of crap.


And no Gambit can only be a positive.

[BeastieRunner]

I thought the first movie was really solid, until the lame mutant machine garbage. Then it went downhill.

The second movie was fantastic.

The third movie was kind of crap.


And no Gambit can only be a positive.

QFT FFS!!!!!!!!

[StoneGold]

QFT FFS!!!!!!!!

Does that stand for something, or are those just angry random letters?

[Beast]

I thought all three movies were great. But the third one needed a few more character scenes.

[StoneGold]

I thought all three movies were great. But the third one needed a few more character scenes.

Yeah, third one was rushed, and a little too apocalyptic without doing enough to make me care about the destruction. But Frasier was f'n cool.

[Beast]

Yeah, third one was rushed, and a little too apocalyptic without doing enough to make me care about the destruction. But Frasier was f'n cool.
Yeah, as much as I hated the casting when it was announced... Kelsey did a damn fine Beast.

[The Shadow]

I thought all three movies were great. But the third one needed a few more character scenes.

I liked the third one a lot.

I think it should have been split... The Cure and the Phoenix could have been two seperate movies. And I agree more character scenes were needed especially as the movie only came in slightly over 90 minutes.

[myslead]

the two first movies had depth and characters dev ... even though wolverine was pretty much put up front, the third one looked more like something you'd see as a videoclip on MTV.

[StoneGold]

Yeah, as much as I hated the casting when it was announced... Kelsey did a damn fine Beast.

Well, he did a great X-Men Beast. I prefer the New Defenders/Avengers Beast myself, but eh, whatchya gonna do? Whoever doubled for him moved amazingly well though. Grammar's stunt double really nailed the animalistic style of movement.

[StoneGold]

I liked the third one a lot.

I think it should have been split... The Cure and the Phoenix could have been two seperate movies. And I agree more character scenes were needed especially as the movie only came in slightly over 90 minutes.

I think the real problem is, Phoenix doesn't work in the X-Men movie world. Not even the non-alien Phoenix they used. And I had that feeling from the moment Singer teased it in #2, and I think I was right. I don't know if Singer could have pulled it off, either. Honestly, even his introduction to the Phoenix in 2 was handled pretty clumsily. Which, if the commentary holds any water, the decision to kill off Jean came pretty late in production.

[Canemacar]

I liked the first and second ones OK, nothing too great though. But the third was mindless tripe.

What the films needed:
-Less focus on Wolverine. We all knew he'd be getting a solo, there was no need to make the "X-men" films almost entirely about him too.

-Better casting choices. By this I mean Hally Barrie(or however the hell you spell her name). She was very wrong for the role of Storm and likely only chosen because she was a well known black actress. They should've gone with an unknown.

-Gambit. Keeping one of the most popular X-men out of the films was just idiotic on Marvel's part. And doing so specifically so he doesn't steal Wolverine's thunder(which is the reason they gave) is even more so because it shows the over-emphasis placed on Logan.

-A non-whimpy Rogue with a southern accent. She was basically Kitty with a name and power change.

-A completely different X-3. it again had the over-emphasis on Wolverine, but with the added problem of giving Hallie more screen time. It also reduced the previously deep and sympathetic Magneto to a sociopathic madman. Jean did very little and the entire Phoenix plot was made to share room with Whedon's Gifted arc. There was also very little accomplished at the end; the cure won't last and Prof X returned(with the window open for Cyke to do so too).

[Sentinel K]

X-Men was a movie?

3 MOVIES!!?

Why was I not informed?

I can't believe no ones done a thread about this until now!

Unbelievable

[Joe Acro]

I thought the first movie was really solid, until the lame mutant machine garbage. Then it went downhill.

The second movie was fantastic.

The third movie was kind of crap.
I agree, but I'll add that X3 was quite disappointing as well.

[Majinlex]

I think you and I might have the same brain Canemacar. You just described everything I thought about the X-films... Cool

[Atom_basher]

i liked the third one and im not ashamed to admit it

[Spider-Sense]

To me,X-1 one and x-3 were average movies.X-2 was great, though.

[niall mc cann]

The first was mediocre, cardboard characters and plasticky sets. Silly.

The second suffered from the tacky aesthetic it inherited, but it was a stronger film. Still only alright, though.

The third was irredeemable rubbish. Just a terrible film, on every level. Don't like it at all.

[PrimeTimeLynzo]

I totaly agree the 1st. one had alot of hype being the first "Real" X-men movie,the 2nd. one was ok I guess,but the 3rd. one bombed pretty bad...lol And C'MON NO GAMBIT!!! He would a made like a good rivalry with logan, but you know like bring it together in the end and help each other out....
And how can X-3 be the "Last Stand"? They havent begun to even scratch the surface of The entire X-men story.....Its B.S. if you ask me...

[Christopher O]

but the 3rd. one bombed pretty bad...lol
Actually, it didn't bomb at all. It made more than the two films that came before it. Of course, that doesn't mean it was a quality film.

[Greg Anderson]

I absolutely loved the first two and hate the last one. I have no complaints for the first two. What I would have done for the third was first and foremost not even have Jean in the damn movie. There was no purpose for her in this movie as she just stood there and didn't help develop no plot whatsoever. Maybe have some more character development for people like Rogue or Colossus or Angel, of all people. Huge ads for Angel and him being the reason for the cure, yet he was in it for only 5 mins.

Cure: wasn't permanet(sp) so in the end, the mutants were fighting for nothing. The Morlock's pretty much sucked. The Morlocks are suppose to be deformed mutant freaks, not a emo goth gang.

Most of the problems with The Last Stand was the story. It had so much potential to do so much more. We could have even had a Cyclops leading the team for battle (but I won't blame the creative team on Cyke since Marsden was busy making Superman). Man, I could go on and on, but eff it, it's not gonna change anything so whatever.

[samil87]

First two were excellent movies and I can't really say anything bad about them really, except I agree Halle Berry was a bad choice for Storm and Wolverine was centre stage way too much, but that isn't much different from the comics generally (I think at one point he was in the Avengers and a couple of X-teams plus his own solo series- doesn't really work).
Third one however, I could have waited for Singer to finish up on Superman, Rattner ruined the movies for me.
A few of my complaints are; introduction of a lot of new characters and giving them each a line of dialogue or less (Angel and Colossus were used to sell the film but barely in it), using the only Wolvie can save the day plot yet again, massive abuse of the phoenix (hated the Phoenix persona thing), tried to run too many plots in too short a space of time, bad character choices (psylocke with different powers in the Brotherhood for one), it seemed to have very little direction, too much character death, bad casting (Vinnie Jones cannot act) and too much of a focus on special effects and massive shows of power at the expense of plot development.
As you can tell I was very disappointed by it. However, one of my main problems, and I have yet to find someone who agrees with me on thirs, is that it didn't fit with the continuity. It seemed to me that Singer was setting up to have Phoenix as the next stage of evolution (Jean talking about evolution taking a leap foward), they then just ignored the fire bird thing at the end of the second film, and to me X3 just generally doesnt fit with the film series.
Not to mention it being sold as a big epic confrontation in which everythings going to change, and then basically saying in the end don't worry nothings permanent.
Finally, X-Men has plenty of life in it, there was no need for this to be the Last Stand. But from what I've read it almost definitely will not be the last X film...not sure wether that's a good thing or not :confused:

[Affinity]

Two was an amazing movie. The way everything just meshed and editing and fights and graphics and acting ---- I love everything about truly. Truly an amazing film.

Three was fun, but obviously odd man out lol. One is just lame, for me. Two was the high point of the three.

[fishtaco]

First one was decent, second was fabulous, third was drivel.

[twilight]

X-Men was a movie?

3 MOVIES!!?

Why was I not informed?

I can't believe no ones done a thread about this until now!

Unbelievable

I wish someone had told me so I could've watched them.

[jmc247]

Wolverine was overused to the Nth degree in the movies. Rogue was made an annoying young girl instead of a kickass southern bell. Magneto was written as an irredemable monster, but was saved as a character in the X-Men movies only by the great acting of Ian McKellen. They decided for one reason or another to go with Ultimate Magneto instead of 616 Magneto. Hopefully, they have the common sense to go with a 616 type Magneto for his movie.

[YummiYami]

I think they should have made one x-men movie like the oldies. Cyclops,Hank,Iceman,And Marvel Girl... it would be soo easier to make and fun. Unless They have one about the age of ...
Now i know x-3 i dont really like it beside that cat fight with storm and whatever that mutant girl name is callist something. Actually reading the comics made me hate it gaug i cant how some people say its the last or even think its the last... X-men movies can't end like that it would just be to disqusting. x=

[BloodRedSandman]

Becuase there is SOOOO much more to tell... What do you expect for a movie? Of course there is going to me so much more to tell, but the movie producers are only going to make a feature is about a 2 1/2 hours long.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

To me the first movie was a bit flat, but pretty damned solid. I liked it a lot. Although the concept of trying to mutate the rest of mankind was a bit of a cod concept.

X-2 was doubtless a much better movie. A bit of a contrived fudging of the Weapon X Project, but sufferable in order for a great movie. Good level of characterisation, nice cameos, and Jean Grey manifesting the firey force of the Phoenix. Her death was the perfect set up, and we see the Phoenix motif in the water at the end. Top notch.

X-3 on the other hand was at best a wasted opportunity and at worst utter drivel. The wrong priority applied to the wrong characters, far too many character cameos to explore any of the cast, rushed, contrived and stuffed full of contuity errors.

How can you have a Phoenix without any fire? The firew which was present in the previous movie?

How can you kill the two most central X-Characters for nothing more than lame shock factor? Lame, because both Cyclops had been so two dimensional in the movie that it really wasn't shocking. Badly executed.

The Phoenix remains probably the most iconic story arc of the X-Men. This movie didn't even touch on it. It instead wrote its entire concept around several actors who had demanded the padding of their parts, in a movie where such focus simply did not fit.

Yes, the Dark Phoenix Saga, with its 'Space Alien' quality would not work for screen. But not to use the Hellfire Club was a poor move. Even some kind of hybrid of Mark Millar's story from Ultimate X-Men would at least have tried to accomodate the 'feel' of X-Men. This movie failed completely to do that.

This was a mess, a jumble of ideas done better in the first movie. We did not need another 'the Brotherhood are bad guys' story. It would have made far more sense to have had the Brotherhood as uncomfortable allies with the X-Men against Apocalypse or Sinister or Bastion.

This was instead a lazy ill-conceived movie, which has effectrively now killed the franchize. :mad:

[jmc247]

This was instead a lazy ill-conceived movie, which has effectrively now killed the franchize. :mad:

Considering the mega bucks the movie made and the incredible DVD sales I really doubt that.

[steve2275]

i liked the third one and im not ashamed to admit it
...me neither

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Considering the mega bucks the movie made and the incredible DVD sales I really doubt that.

It's not inconceivable - but I don't think we'll be seeing another one any time soon.

[freak1090]

The should make a film based on the age of apocalypse series. I've bought all the books apart from "The new age of apocalypse" book and i think the story is very good. It could then leave the door open for an exiles movie.

[jmc247]

It's not inconceivable - but I don't think we'll be seeing another one any time soon.

They are doing Wolverine and Magneto movies right now.

I got the feeling the superhero genre is getting over played in the movies right now and a few years from now there is going to be major super hero burnout amoung movie goers.

[Zombienorthstar]

-The way Jean Grey just became the phoenix,and I said nothing about her being the guardian of the crystal that was in the sun...

That would have translated AWFULLY onto film.

And she didn't just randomly become the Phoenix...it was explained in the context of the movie.

It was a manifestation of the psychic potential she had that Xavier had tried to repress.

[Judge Mental]

That would have translated AWFULLY onto film.

And she didn't just randomly become the Phoenix...it was explained in the context of the movie.

It was a manifestation of the psychic potential she had that Xavier had tried to repress.

Wasn't it triggered when Magneto's machine exploded at the end of the first film?

That's what i thought anyway.

[Pro]

I didn't hate any of the movies. 3 was pretty decent, except for a few flaws (too little character development, too many mutants jammed in one movie, Cyclops dying offscreen and the sappy happy ending which didn't fit the otherwise dark movie). On the whole though 3 wasn't bad or lazy.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

Maybe it all worked as a movie, in some people's minds. But as anything even close to an adaptation of the X-Men X-3 was terrible.

[Joe Acro]

The should make a film based on the age of apocalypse series. I've bought all the books apart from "The new age of apocalypse" book and i think the story is very good. It could then leave the door open for an exiles movie.
No. I don't think that tale can successfully be told in three hours or even four (if they were to go the Gods and Generals route). Also, given that's a time travel story overflowing with mutants, it might be hard for viewers to identify with.

I wouldn't go see it, but I don't really like Age of Apocalypse.

[Lord S]

This was instead a lazy ill-conceived movie, which has effectrively now killed the franchize. :mad: I agree that X3 was definitely weaker than the first two...but not to the extent that you're talking about.

[Omega Alpha]

Like i said before, there wasn't yet a X-men film, but three films about
Wolverine and his amazing yet not relevant friends. But X2 worked very well, although is not the Usual Suspects.



I liked the first and second ones OK, nothing too great though. But the third was mindless tripe.

What the films needed:
-Less focus on Wolverine. We all knew he'd be getting a solo, there was no need to make the "X-men" films almost entirely about him too.

-Better casting choices. By this I mean Hally Barrie(or however the hell you spell her name). She was very wrong for the role of Storm and likely only chosen because she was a well known black actress. They should've gone with an unknown.

-Gambit. Keeping one of the most popular X-men out of the films was just idiotic on Marvel's part. And doing so specifically so he doesn't steal Wolverine's thunder(which is the reason they gave) is even more so because it shows the over-emphasis placed on Logan.

-A non-whimpy Rogue with a southern accent. She was basically Kitty with a name and power change.

-A completely different X-3. it again had the over-emphasis on Wolverine, but with the added problem of giving Hallie more screen time. It also reduced the previously deep and sympathetic Magneto to a sociopathic madman. Jean did very little and the entire Phoenix plot was made to share room with Whedon's Gifted arc. There was also very little accomplished at the end; the cure won't last and Prof X returned(with the window open for Cyke to do so too).

I agree with all your points.

We could have even had a Cyclops leading the team for battle (but I won't blame the creative team on Cyke since Marsden was busy making Superman).r.

He wasn't, his role in Superman was small and he had plenty of time. The writers said the studio ordered it to be "Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry's movie", and they had to push for that small role of Cyclops and more Phoenix scenes.

[The Sword Is Drawn]

He wasn't, his role in Superman was small and he had plenty of time. The writers said the studio ordered it to be "Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry's movie", and they had to push for that small role of Cyclops and more Phoenix scenes.

That was the exact reason. It's just like how badly the studio screwed up the Daredevil movie. They wanted to focus on Elektra, because they believed Jeniffer Garner sold the movie. They were wrong, abd the huge sales of the director's cut - compared to sales of the frankly poor Elektra movie speaks volumes...

[Omega Alpha]

That was the exact reason. It's just like how badly the studio screwed up the Daredevil movie. They wanted to focus on Elektra, because they believed Jeniffer Garner sold the movie. They were wrong, abd the huge sales of the director's cut - compared to sales of the frankly poor Elektra movie speaks volumes...

I think that studios haven't realized yet that the films of X-men, Hulk, Spider-Man, Batman, etc, are not the average action movie; like Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings, they already have a very large fanbase who will watch the movies no matter who is in the cast. Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry weren't stars before X-men, Ian Mckellen was all that known to the general audience, and the first movie was very sucessful. The Spider-Man movies are not a sucess because of Tobey Mcguire either.

[scottv]

I loved the first two but hated the third. They tried to have way too many characters and didn't do a good job of telling who they were. It also seemed kind of choppy. I don't think that there was much good about it.

[Tobias March]

Considering the mega bucks the movie made and the incredible DVD sales I really doubt that.

Well according to the director's commentary for X3 I believe they already have an out for Chuck's death (availing of the Cassandra Nova/twin attacked in the womb idea). Jean/Scott may be gone, but then no body for Summers and the Phoenix can be redefined any number of times. Sure hasn't it already been :p

It does look like 'New Mutants' is going to be followed up on. I'm sure producer's are salivating at the various characters they could introduce - a female wolverine, Magneto's children, Summers offspring crawling out from the woodwork...

[Beast]

Well, not exactly. They only used the idea of Cassandra Nova slightly. The person who Xavier moved his consciousness into who turns up at the end of the credits was his twin brother who was born with no higher brain functions. That's why his voice sounds exactly the same at the end when he says "Hello Moira".

[Beast]

He wasn't, his role in Superman was small and he had plenty of time. The writers said the studio ordered it to be "Hugh Jackman and Halle Berry's movie", and they had to push for that small role of Cyclops and more Phoenix scenes.
Not according to the audio commentary on the X-Men 3 DVD. They confirmed that Scott's role was cut down as he was only available for a couple days of filming. As he was busy with Superman.

[ProfeZZor X]

Not according to the audio commentary on the X-Men 3 DVD. They confirmed that Scott's role was cut down as he was only available for a couple days of filming. As he was busy with Superman.


So essentially screwed himself, and turned out to be a big "wuss" in both movies.

[Brand]

So essentially screwed himself, and turned out to be a big "wuss" in both movies.

There wasn't even a script for X3 when Marsden took that role. FOX waited too long and only started rushing the project after Singer was offered and accepted the job as director of Superman Returns, taking Marsden with him.

[ProfeZZor X]

There wasn't even a script for X3 when Marsden took that role. FOX waited too long and only started rushing the project after Singer was offered and accepted the job as director of Superman Returns, taking Marsden with him.

I know the whole story behind Singer's departure... my father and I use to work for 20th Century Fox studio. Singer had already written a treatment for the third installment, but due to Fox's hessitation, he left and went on to direct Superman, a life long dream of his. Same with Peter Jackson and his passion for King Kong. Fox pondered the thought of using Singer's treatment for a basis for X3's script, but only used small portions. Most of it eventually went through rewrites and revisions, so none of it was really used. Only certain concepts... Like the Sentinels.

None of thess movies would have turned out as bad as they were if Joe Roth or Barry Diller had control over the whole situation (if they were still with Fox). Things would have been much more different, and all three movies would have been done right.

...That's all I have to say about that.

[Beast]

Of course, considering Superman Returns... maybe it's a good thing Singer left.

[ProfeZZor X]

Of course, considering Superman Returns... maybe it's a good thing Singer left.

Fox got what they deserved...

Then again, their stupidity unwittingly gave them their success with this franchise. Fortunately for them Brian was able to pull off his two movies in the time frame he did, because giving the public a premiere date before the movie actually starts is like shooting themselves in the foot.

... The same "thought process" happened with their FF movie too, with only 6 months to shoot principle photography.... Never considering enough time for reshoots, or pick up shots. Because when they do public screeners and get bad reviews, they always scramble like cockroaches caught in the light to redo a scene.... Bad management if you ask me.

[jmc247]

Fox got what they deserved...


Some of you people are forgetting that Fox doesn't care what we think.

All Fox cares about is does the film make money at the box office and in DVDs.

And, X-Men 3 made a fortune for Fox, more then any other X-Men film. Even Fox Chiefs said X-Men 3 surpassed their expectations and made a Spiderman level forture. X-Men 3 blew Superman's pants off at the box office. That is all they care about.

[ProfeZZor X]

Some of you people are forgetting that Fox doesn't care what we think.

All Fox cares about is does the film make money at the box office and in DVDs.

And, X-Men 3 made a fortune for Fox, more then any other X-Men film. Even Fox Chiefs said X-Men 3 surpassed their expectations and made a Spiderman level forture. X-Men 3 blew Superman's pants off at the box office. That is all they care about.

Correction, Fox doesn't care what us fanboys think. As long as the general public approves of the movie (Non X-Men fans), that's all they care about. Much like all the other movies they produce, as long as it appeals to all the target demographics the bestow on this franchise (teens boys/girls, & adult males 18-21 for X-Men), they've achieved their goal.

[Omega Alpha]

Not according to the audio commentary on the X-Men 3 DVD. They confirmed that Scott's role was cut down as he was only available for a couple days of filming. As he was busy with Superman.

But he wasn't busy. The shooting of Superman was in the first semester of 2005, X-men's in the second. James Mardsen being busy was just the studio's excuse to try to not piss off the comics fans that much.

[ProfeZZor X]

But he wasn't busy. The shooting of Superman was in the first semester of 2005, X-men's in the second. James Mardsen being busy was just the studio's excuse to try to not piss off the comics fans that much.

There would have been a huge continuity problem if Scott wasn't in this movie, seeing that he ties into Jean, so this is true.

But on a side note, Marsden intentionally followed Singer into his next project because he preferred working with him. Shawn (Iceman) almost did the same thing, and was almost offered the part of Jimmy Olsen, but he wasn't as faithful to Singer as Marsden was and declined it. This was all before the entire returning cast even signed any contracts for X3.... So Fox was in a very vulnerable position. They were just fortunate that none of the cast jumped ship (like Marsden did) before any pre-production developments started.

[Beast]

But he wasn't busy. The shooting of Superman was in the first semester of 2005, X-men's in the second. James Mardsen being busy was just the studio's excuse to try to not piss off the comics fans that much.
That's not what's been confirmed by those who made the movie.

[Citizen V]

I personally think that the X-Movies harmed the X-Franchise more than it helped it.I can understand it gave the X-Men more exposure,but there was a quality backlash.Like Wolverine being everywhere in the Marvel Universe,or the damn latex costumes the X-Men wore.

[Beast]

I personally think that the X-Movies harmed the X-Franchise more than it helped it.I can understand it gave the X-Men more exposure,but there was a quality backlash.Like Wolverine being everywhere in the Marvel Universe,or the damn latex costumes the X-Men wore.
Wolverine was everywhere before the X-Men movies. It's not til after the movies that they cut back his appearances in other books. As for the costumes, the leather look wasn't going to last anyway.

[Scavenger]

I personally think that the X-Movies harmed the X-Franchise more than it helped it.I can understand it gave the X-Men more exposure,but there was a quality backlash.Like Wolverine being everywhere in the Marvel Universe,.

Yeah! Damn those X-Movies for making them put Wolverine in every comic that Marvel's done since the late 80's!:rolleyes:

[Affinity]

Well, not exactly. They only used the idea of Cassandra Nova slightly. The person who Xavier moved his consciousness into who turns up at the end of the credits was his twin brother who was born with no higher brain functions. That's why his voice sounds exactly the same at the end when he says "Hello Moira".
Is that confirmed? Twin brothers are lame.

[Tobias March]

Is that confirmed? Twin brothers are lame.

Seems to be. Though I'd look at it as more pulping of the screenplay with random ideas and stories from X-history.

[Beast]

Is that confirmed? Twin brothers are lame.
Yes it's confirmed. It's in the Audio Commentary. That's Patrick Stewart in the bed made up with a beard and such for that scene. It's an out should they want to bring X back for a future sequel.

[Joe Acro]

Yes it's confirmed. It's in the Audio Commentary. That's Patrick Stewart in the bed made up with a beard and such for that scene. It's an out should they want to bring X back for a future sequel.
They could've just not killed him...

[Beast]

They could've just not killed him...
But that wouldn't have been as cool. Frankly that was one of the best scenes in X3.

[Canemacar]

But that wouldn't have been as cool. Frankly that was one of the best scenes in X3.

No it wasn't. magneto's reaction made very little sense. They should've shown that the death of his old friend affected him but instead he just took Jean and left.

[Beast]

No it wasn't. magneto's reaction made very little sense. They should've shown that the death of his old friend affected him but instead he just took Jean and left.
Did you watch the same movie? Cause it did effect him.

[Joe Acro]

But that wouldn't have been as cool. Frankly that was one of the best scenes in X3.
To each his own.

[Canemacar]

Did you watch the same movie? Cause it did effect him.

Very barely. They built up the concept of their friendship and rivalry throughout the entire franchise, then Charles dies and Magneto is largely unaffected.

The scene sucked and it needed to be reworked to show a greater depth for Magneto. The whole movie did in fact; Magneto was about as deep as a sheet of paper.

[Beast]

Very barely. They built up the concept of their friendship and rivalry throughout the entire franchise, then Charles dies and Magneto is largely unaffected.

The scene sucked and it needed to be reworked to show a greater depth for Magneto. The whole movie did in fact; Magneto was about as deep as a sheet of paper.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY

He even chastizes Pyro for his "I would have killed Charles Xavier if you had let me." Don't you recall that? So yes, there's that and several other moments that show that Xavier's death did effect Magneto. Plus if you don't recall, he basically left Xavier for dead at the end of X2.

[Canemacar]

He also showed no sign of realizing how dangerous Phoenix was. A scene like that should have made him somewhat hesitant about using Jean like some kind of weapon. Even if he went ahead with his plans, Magneto is smart enough to realize a danger when theres a warning sign like this.

They should've also included a "Charles, you were right" sort of moment towards the end when his own plans proved faulty.(Not to mention how wrong it was for him to refer to mutants openly as pawns after them showing him acting on the behalf of all mutants in the previous films.

[jmc247]

Very barely. They built up the concept of their friendship and rivalry throughout the entire franchise, then Charles dies and Magneto is largely unaffected.

The scene sucked and it needed to be reworked to show a greater depth for Magneto. The whole movie did in fact; Magneto was about as deep as a sheet of paper.

I had major problems with the depiction of Magneto from the very first movie. The writing for his character managed to get worse for each respective film, the only thing that saved the character was that they had a great actor playing the character.

Magneto in the first film was going to turn human world leaders into mutants. Sure, I can buy Magneto doing that. What I can't buy is him murdering a young girl instead of doing it himself. 616 Magneto gave up his war in X-Men 150 when he thought he accidently killed a young girl like his Anya. The movie Magneto could give a crap less if he killed an innocent to gets what he wants and he even mocked her in X-Men 2 over it "the I love what you did with your hair" line.

616 Magneto does not believe in genocide or slaughtering innocents period. He knows that in war there is collateral damage, just as any military leader knows. But, Magneto in the movies is willing to commit genocide against the entire human race with a smile on his face and without a second thought as we saw in the second film.

616 Magneto also doesn't hate humans. I know some writers like Morrison don't understand this all too well, but the Magneto Claremont created has no more hatred of a young human girl on the street then he does a young mutant girl. What drives Magneto is not hatred or desire for revenge against all human's. What drives Magneto is to protect his race from becoming victims of mankind's inharent propensity to fear what they don't understand and then to destory what they fear like he saw in his youth. Magneto doesn't desire to enslave humanity or eliminate humanity, he wants to protect mutants and he has tried many different ways over the years to do that; colonies in space, on Earth, and what have you.

The writers and directors of the X-Men films saw Magneto as a single minded radical extremist human hater who cares about only himself and his mission. I bet they didn't spend 1/50th the time reading X-Men comics as your average fan on this board. I only hope they read up on Magneto over the past 30 years before the Magneto film.

[Canemacar]

I wasn't going to go through all the trouble of typing it out, but you're right. it was Ian's excellent acting that saved Magneto's character from an otherwise bad depiction. But if they can get someone like Claremont involved in the scripting of the Magneto movie, it should do him justice.

[Omega Alpha]

That's not what's been confirmed by those who made the movie.

You expected to see someone saying something like it in the audio commentary of the film, that the studio said it was "Hugh Jackman's and Halle Berry's movie" and did not gived a damn about the movie or the characters?:rolleyes: Just check the filming dates of Superman and X-men, they were in two different semesters.


He also showed no sign of realizing how dangerous Phoenix was. A scene like that should have made him somewhat hesitant about using Jean like some kind of weapon. Even if he went ahead with his plans, Magneto is smart enough to realize a danger when theres a warning sign like this.

They should've also included a "Charles, you were right" sort of moment towards the end when his own plans proved faulty.(Not to mention how wrong it was for him to refer to mutants openly as pawns after them showing him acting on the behalf of all mutants in the previous films.

Well, Jean barely cared when she came to the conclusion she killed Scott (whether she was correct or not, it can be discussed, but that's not the point), so what do you expected?

[Beast]

You expected to see someone saying something like it in the audio commentary of the film, that the studio said it was "Hugh Jackman's and Halle Berry's movie" and did not gived a damn about the movie or the characters?:rolleyes: Just check the filming dates of Superman and X-men, they were in two different semesters.
Well, no offense... but I'll take the word of the people who made the movie over you.

[Canemacar]

Well, Jean barely cared when she came to the conclusion she killed Scott (whether she was correct or not, it can be discussed, but that's not the point), so what do you expected?

My expectations hit rock bottom during the Sentinel scene in the Danger Room. My expectations were, more or less, met.

[Joe Acro]

I have been doing some research. Superman Returns began production in February 2005. X-Men 3 began production in August. The initial schedule, according toe BoxOfficeMojo, was for Superman Returns to finish filming in mid-August. I have no way of knowing if they ran over or finished early.

[The_green_listener]

The first movie was pretty awesome in terms of character development but it was a little lacking in action. It seemed like the build up to the explosion that was the 2nd movie. This was the best of the three movies and while the 3rd one was panned quite a lot I enjoyed it. As far as story goes it was a bit lacking in essentials but as far as the action goes it was fantastic. Gambit not being in any 3 movies was a huge downer for me

[Mr_Hellfire]

The biggest problem I have is what they did to Rogue. I'm sorry, but I grew up with Rogue (from TAS) as extroverted and sassy. Of course she had her inner weaknesses and things like that, but it wasn't dwelled upon constantly. In the movies it's constant "emo" Rogue, she is constantly flipping out and her powers are irritatingly just her own.

[Greg Anderson]

I actually prefer emo Rogue. I grew up with the animated Rogue from the 90s but as I got older, I started to somehow relate to Rogue on an emotional way and it made sense for her to be all gothic and emo given her "condition" and powers. Which was probably why I loved her so much in Evolution.

[Affinity]

I suppose emo Rogue makes sense, but sassy Rogue makes me love the character even more; the fact that she can rise above the emo-ness and be herself.

I think the conclusion for Rogue was awful; the one they picked? Awesome message for all teenage girls around America. All Truth has to do is play that scene for another one of their commercials, lol.

[Mr_Hellfire]

I suppose emo Rogue makes sense, but sassy Rogue makes me love the character even more; the fact that she can rise above the emo-ness and be herself.
Exactly, anyone in her position can just start whimpering and moaning all the time, but it's only people of great inner strength that can overcome it and even be sassy. It made Rogue quite loveable.

[Greg Anderson]

Exactly, anyone in her position can just start whimpering and moaning all the time, but it's only people of great inner strength that can overcome it and even be sassy. It made Rogue quite loveable.

Yeah, but it's not everyday you could be sassy like that. There's going to be times when reality hits and she'd be all emo and depressed. Then the next day its putting on another act of sassy-ness, heh.:)

[Uncle Nobs]

These threads make me crotchety.

We all seem to agree that X2 was great, but I think many fans are too rooted in the comics to appreciate how well Singer managed the VERY tricky adaptation between mediums for the first film.

The first movie stays remarkably true to the characters and themes of the comics and was more subtle than fans gave it credit for. In fact, I've spoken to people who took until over halfway through the film to realize, "Hey, wait... Am I watching superheroes?"

Sure it's light on action. But you'll see it's supposed to be if you take a look at the story.




I think we can all agree that Erik's concentration camp flashback in the opening scene ruled. The past of our fantasy world is established.

Next, we meet Rogue as a teenager. Not the brash, sassy, 18-to-20-year-old. No. We meet the effed-up, traumatized, on the run, just kissed Cody and freaking out, alienated from everyone, easily misled, vulnerable 15-year-old who's going to face so many more traumas that she will eventually go nuts (or go "rogue") before she even begins to balance her angry, hurt, wild side and becomes the fun-loving, reckless Southerner we all know and love. (If any of that sounds like Kitty to you, it's time you actually read your comics.)

We experience Rogue's initial trauma and the present of our fantasy world is established.

Next up (if I recall) was Jean, Chuck, Sen. Kelly, and Erik. Not bad. The trick to telling a story with an ensemble cast of characters is to provide some sort of framework so that the audience doesn't feel like it's just a mess of random characters, relationships, and agendas. So we get Chuck & Mags as the foundation, rounding out the exposition. Now that we know the setting, the conflict of our fantasy world is established: Old men in an old battle, slowly moving their pawns against each other. (Even the decision to cast two respected, British, Shakespearian actors helps create a framework, lending credibility to the lesser-known actors playing their operatives.)

Next up is Wolverine. Enter the audience.

Love him or hate him, Wolverine is the perfect everyman for this story, and we see through his eyes. He is the skeptic, the nonbeliever who questions not only the conflict, but even the rules of this strange, new world. ("Storm? Cyclops? What do they call you--Wheels?") He is thrust into the middle of this highly polarized conflict as the neutral element, but who quickly finds his very nature pulling him in both directions.

Sorry if you're tired of him in the comics. He's the perfect everyman for this story. Deal with it.




That's the gist of it. The rest is just supporting characters and plots that naturally stem from the established conflict. Magneto vs. humanity with Chuck opposing him, each one moving their pawns and knights.

It's not a huge conflict, so it's not a huge action movie. It's just the initial skirmish of an emerging war, with an innocent (Rogue) caught in the middle. Pretty smart way to start such a MASSIVE undertaking as to try to sum up all the salient points of the X-mythos in a series of films.

Because the X-Men is not a single story. It's not a single character arc. It's a study of related themes.

All you can do in adapting it to film is present the right themes, study them without getting preachy, and use each characters' arc wisely, economically, and poetically.




Now to (snidely and impatiently) address the gripes that fans spout ad nauseum:

Yes, the sane among us agree that Halle was a poor choice.

Yes, the fans who actually understand the characters wish that Cyke had a bigger part. I don't think it was necessary in this chapter, though. We got enough to build on. Singer did this well in X2, making the most of his few scenes and continuing to build him as a key character for X3. Ratner and company dropped the ball.

Yes, I hated Toad, too. Sabretooth was a bit dull, but Toad's scenes were nearly unwatchable. 15 minutes of fame and all that. I mean, doing his signature Darth Maul move? Way to break the illusion.

Yes, the Toad/lightning line sucked. Let's not discuss it. I'm tired of explaining why it failed.

Yes, some of the effects sucked, notably Storm's flying and the foam rubber restraints made from the interior of the Statue of Liberty.

Yes, Magneto regularly used ridiculous weapons in the comics similar to the Mutant Machine. I'm not sure what the big deal is.

Yes, they made Jean "Dr. Grey". I thought it was a great way to establish Jean as a perpetual student, living a cloistered life in the safety of Charles' school.




And now for the stuff fans fail to pick up on:

Singer chose to be subtle visually, avoiding the trap of going too flashy with the iconic superhero imagery. We get our first team shot as they hop a stone wall and make their way through the fog, but it's only a glimpse, transient and without being too telegraphed.

All the energy signatures are remarkably true to the comics. Magneto's was brilliantly subtle. I loved the way they adapted Kirby's radiating wavy lines of force. Even the Mutant Machine's often-mocked "spaghetti-strand" energy is inspired by the '60s & '70s art.

James Marsden played a perfect Cyclops. If you have trouble reading him or liking him... good. He's supposed to be wound too tight.

The entire climax works on multiple levels. It plays on the sexual dynamic between Logan, Jean, & Scott as well as Rogue's innocence to a BLATANT degree, yet viewers still fail to pick up on it. It openly lays the foundation for the Phoenix Saga, yet viewers missed this, too.

Logan & Rogue's theme music is amazing. Actually the perfect theme for Logan. It's so simple and universal, it could be played any number of ways on any number of instruments to reflect different periods and settings in his life. Seriously. If you're unable to hum it right now, you have a grievous deficiency in your X-geekdom.




Hmm... I seem to be all talked out. I'll be back for more if I'm feeling crotchety again. Bye-bye.

[stealthwise]

First movie was fairly solid, and something to build on.

Second film was just excellent, one of my favourite superhero movies, easily.

The third movie was a complete waste of time and utter trash from a pacing standpoint. There were far more poor scenes than the other two combined, and the entire thing felt like a completely different series than the first two.

[Uncle Nobs]

I agree with Stealthwise.

Except for quoting Gail Simone. That's never okay.

[Greg Anderson]

Uncle Nob! More analyzing the X-films. Now!

... please? :D Heh, great stuff there, man.

[stealthwise]

Uncle Nob! More analyzing the X-films. Now!

... please? :D Heh, great stuff there, man.

I concur, that was great.

One thing I really loathed about the third film was how quickly they resorted to throwing away characters. They killed Cyclops within five minutes. They killed Professor X off, instead of actually thinking of a creative way to remove him from the climactic action scence. They turned Magneto into a completely one-dimensional character that reflected NONE of the charisma and depth that were apparent in the first two films. They depowered Mystique for no apparent reason at all, as they completely failed to address Magneto's and the rest of his minions' reactions to it.

Multiple Man's cameo was pretty cool though.

[Greg Anderson]

The whole movie was just plain pointless. There was no reason whatsoever to have Phoenix in the damn film. And the cure not being permanent made the whole battle and movie just pointless in the end. Gosh, I hate this movie! :mad: I was happy to see Madrox, yes, but killing of Cyke got me as I wanted to see him leading the team!!