X-Men Summit Major Details

[Joe Zool]

Bishop likely won't be returning to the team anytime soon. He's currently the head of Sentinel Squad O*N*E's group. Taking over for General Lazer at the end of Civil War: X-Men. Basically the character's been trashed and thrown into limbo. And since the X-Men are against registration, I don't see how exactly your idea would work.

And you can thank either David Hine or Marvel editorial for that. :rolleyes:

Such a shame too. He was really coming into his own under Claremont.

[Beast]

And you can thank either David Hine or Marvel editorial for that. :rolleyes:

Such a shame too. He was really coming into his own under Claremont.
Agreed. I didn't like Bishop all that much until X-Treme and Uncanny where CC was developing the character.

[proteus]

And you can thank either David Hine or Marvel editorial for that. :rolleyes:

Such a shame too. He was really coming into his own under Claremont.


Carey said that Bishop will have a big role in the crossover, so he will most likely rejoin a team.

[Beast]

Carey said that Bishop will have a big role in the crossover, so he will most likely rejoin a team.
Or he'll be the jerk with the Sentinels.

[Flameworthy]

Nah nah nah

You have to go back to when she was introduced, like X-men 17. She knew exactly who she was and was going in that mansion to kill Psylocke so as to regain her place as nyorin's top assassin. This she didnt know who she was horsecrap was added later. That was one of the many, many problems with the story.

here's the dialog i dug up

nyorin guy: A very unnecessary display, Kwannon. So many lives wasted and all for the sake of proving your point.

kwannon: How else was i to show you i am prepared to regain my rightful place as you elite assassin, my lord- then by eliminating your honor guard.

She clearly knows who she is at this point, and that she is an assassin and has been for some time.

This I dont-know-who-i-am horseshit was added later when Fabian seemed to have lost the plot thread. Her intro issue she was murdering random people. Her next issue she was murdering random guard ninjas.

This story was garbage the way it was originally going to happen, and was even worse garbage when Fabian switched gears.


I can see your point here, but I still liked how the rest of her story played out. Fabian is hardly the first and only writer to switch plots in the middle of a story. Can you say New Excalibur.


As for the problem with Kwannon. Kwannon is the japanese import name of Kuan Yin or Guan Yin. A buddhist goddess of chinese origin. A japanese person named kwannon is comparable to a japanese person named Brad. But instead of being named Brad, they would be like Barado, spelled out phonetically.

Nobody ever said that Kwannon was 100% Japanese. For all we know she could have been half Chinese. You know, it's not impossible.


If by "great character" you mean "needless complication" or "trainwreck" then I totally agree.

No more "needless complication" or "trainwreck" than the original story. Why the hell would Betsy need to be turned Asian in the first. I know the reasoning behind it was there couldn't be a Caucasion woman running the Honk Kong underworld, but would you honestly care what that person's race was if they could read your minds, and know your deepest darkest secrets, or fry your brain in an instant. :rolleyes:

The Revanche storyline just makes more sense to me, and it doesn't involve that lame excuse for a character Mojo either.

[kate-pryde]

Mike Carey posted this clue yesterday: "Bear in mind that the characters who end up not being on the new roster won’t be disappearing off the face of the Earth. Well, not all of them. One at least will be even more prominent in some ways than before…"

I'm thinking that could mean that:

- most of the characters leaving are going to other teams.

- "Well, not all of them" implies someone might die or disappears.

- A character becoming more prominent suggests that someone might be going joining the Astonishing team or a solo title.

If anyone was to was to go to Astonishing, my guess would be Iceman. He's a fan favorite and been under utilized.

Axel Alonso had mentioned a Cable solo title being one of his goals when he took over as X Group Editor, so that could be eluding to that.

[DDM]

No more "needless complication" or "trainwreck" than the original story. Why the hell would Betsy need to be turned Asian in the first. I know the reasoning behind it was there couldn't be a Caucasion woman running the Honk Kong underworld, but would you honestly care what that person's race was if they could read your minds, and know your deepest darkest secrets, or fry your brain in an instant. :rolleyes:

The Revanche storyline just makes more sense to me, and it doesn't involve that lame excuse for a character Mojo either.

Reread Revanche's story again. The more Fabien Nincizea attempts to explain Kwannon, the more confused he--as the writer--became. It's why Revanche conveniently gets the lethal Legacy Virus then dies after--suddenly--Psylocke supposedly discovers her true origin. :rolleyes:
Kwannon was a fifth wheel not needed for the X-Men. It's one of the many reasons she is written out of the book as fast as she is written into the book.

The truth is Fabien Nincizea did not read Uncanny X-Men #256 when he created the Kwannon/Revanche deus ex machina. Yes, Kwannon is simply a plot device since she is not a character that truly develops beyond Psylocke's origin into an assassin for the Hand.

Can you imagine if Fabien had tried to come up with Lady Deathstrike's origin had he not read Uncanny X-Men #205? He might had created a sentient adamantium car to explain Deathstrike's cybernetic enhancements...
This is the same thing with Kwannon. In the original story, Betsy's body was transformed into Asian. It's that simple.

[Flameworthy]

Reread Revanche's story again. The more Fabien Nincizea attempts to explain Kwannon, the more confused he--as the writer--became. It's why Revanche conveniently gets the lethal Legacy Virus then dies after--suddenly--Psylocke supposedly discovers her true origin. :rolleyes:
Kwannon was a fifth wheel not needed for the X-Men. It's one of the many reasons she is written out of the book as fast as she is written into the book.

The truth is Fabien Nincizea did not read Uncanny X-Men #256 when he created the Kwannon/Revanche deus ex machina. Yes, Kwannon is simply a plot device since she is not a character that truly develops beyond Psylocke's origin into an assassin for the Hand.

Can you imagine if Fabien had tried to come up with Lady Deathstrike's origin had he not read Uncanny X-Men #205? He might had created a sentient adamantium car to explain Deathstrike's cybernetic enhancements...
This is the same thing with Kwannon. In the original story, Betsy's body was transformed into Asian. It's that simple.

Oh please, get off your Claremonitian high horse. :rolleyes:

You wanna know the simple truth? Betsy should have never been turned Asian in the first place. She could have easily been given ninja abilities and a psychic knife without having to change her race too. Now it's just added baggage to her character, and if you want to blame someone, blame Claremont.

[Beast]

Oh please, get off your Claremonitian high horse. :rolleyes:

You wanna know the simple truth? Betsy should have never been turned Asian in the first place. She could have easily been given ninja abilities and a psychic knife without having to change her race too. Now it's just added baggage to her character, and if you want to blame someone, blame Claremont.
For once I have to side with DDM here. He's not on a Claremontian High Horse. He's stating the facts. Even Fabian Nincizea has admitted it was a bad story that retconned something that didn't need to be retconned. That he didn't read the original story when he wrote his story. Simple as that. Stop being an ass about it.

[Zombienorthstar]

I think the whole notion of making her asian was stupid.

[Omega Alpha]

I think the whole notion of making her asian was stupid.

So stupid that CC tried to undone and you all saw the result...

[Flameworthy]

For once I have to side with DDM here. He's not on a Claremontian High Horse. He's stating the facts. Even Fabian Nincizea has admitted it was a bad story that retconned something that didn't need to be retconned. That he didn't read the original story when he wrote his story. Simple as that. Stop being an ass about it.

How exactly am I being an ass about it? People keep blaming Fabian for this, when the blame clearly should go Claremont for making her asian in the first place. Then we would have never had any of this. None of the pin up, thong wearing Psylocke who did nothing in the 90's but kick people in the air, and say nothing but "the Totality of my Power."

[Beast]

How exactly am I being an ass about it? People keep blaming Fabian for this, when the blame clearly should go Claremont for making her asian in the first place. Then we would have never had any of this. None of the pin up, thong wearing Psylocke who did nothing in the 90's but kick people in the air, and say nothing but "the Totality of my Power."
Because Fabian screwed up and you're blaming Claremont for his mistake that's why. He retconned a story that was already explained in full, without having ever read the original story that he was retconning. It's not even a case of blaming Fabian, he's admitted it was a mistake. He even jokingly bashes himself about it. How should Claremont be blamed for Fabian totally not reading or understanding the story. Just because you or some people don't like Asian Betsy doesn't mean that was a bad idea. Marvel certainly doesn't consider it a bad idea, given they won't allow her to be changed back. And slaps her likeness on toys and statues. Three which came out in 2006. And blaming Claremont for other writer's bad writing of Psylocke is where you're being an ass about it.

[Flameworthy]

Because Fabian screwed up and you're blaming Claremont for his mistake that's why. He retconned a story that was already explained in full, without having ever read the original story that he was retconning. It's not even a case of blaming Fabian, he's admitted it was a mistake. He even jokingly bashes himself about it. How should Claremont be blamed for Fabian totally not reading or understanding the story. Just because you or some people don't like Asian Betsy doesn't mean that was a bad idea. Marvel certainly doesn't consider it a bad idea, given they won't allow her to be changed back. And slaps her likeness on toys and statues. Three which came out in 2006. And blaming Claremont for other writer's bad writing of Psylocke is where you're being an ass about it.

Yes, and that's why I'm constantly hearing people complain about how Betsy was nothing but a sex object in the 90's. You're not exactly one to talk. I happen to recall you saying you wanted her back in her original body too. They don't want to change her back because they want to keep her in that thing she calls a costume, and as the sex kitten pin up girl of the X-Men. I'm blaming Claremont because it was a bad idea in the first place. All that happened after that was just a consequence of that.

Whatever, I'm done arguing about this. I've said my peace on this subject for the last time. I like Revanche and I'll keep liking her no matter what other people think. If you don't like it, then tough. :p

[Deus ex Chris]

There's plenty of blame to go around when it comes to Psylocke, so Claremont can have his share, and Nicieza can have his share as well, and there'll still be some to spare.

[david r]

I'm fairly certain that the idea to turn Psylocke asian came from Jim Lee, not Chris Claremont.

But all you guys are taking this out of context. Betsy was NOT a popular character in the late 1980s. Her pre-asian persona was called boring and dull. Go read some of the fan letters from 1986-89. You'll read how many fans just plain did not like her.

Lee & Claremont wanted to spice Psylocke up and bring another layer to her. And this they did, and it seemed to me, the asian Psylocke was MUCH more popular than her earlier version. So popular that it has become her signature look.

[Frodo-X]

I'm fairly certain that the idea to turn Psylocke asian came from Jim Lee, not Chris Claremont.

But all you guys are taking this out of context. Betsy was NOT a popular character in the late 1980s. Her pre-asian persona was called boring and dull. Go read some of the fan letters from 1986-89. You'll read how many fans just plain did not like her.

Lee & Claremont wanted to spice Psylocke up and bring another layer to her. And this they did, and it seemed to me, the asian Psylocke was MUCH more popular than her earlier version. So popular that it has become her signature look.
Exactly. The reason Asian Psylocke has lasted is that she's more popular than her previous rendition.

Chamber's new look has a lot of Chamber fans pissed.
Gambit's new look has a lot of Gambit fans pissed.
But I don't see a lot of Psylocke fans clamoring for her to return to the glory days of the Brit. Some? Yes, there will always be detractors for every move, but no great mobilization of Ninja-Psylocke haters.

[Omega Alpha]

Exactly. The reason Asian Psylocke has lasted is that she's more popular than her previous rendition.

Chamber's new look has a lot of Chamber fans pissed.
Gambit's new look has a lot of Gambit fans pissed.
But I don't see a lot of Psylocke fans clamoring for her to return to the glory days of the Brit. Some? Yes, there will always be detractors for every move, but no great mobilization of Ninja-Psylocke haters.


I personally don't care much one way or the other, but i don't see what Claremont and/or Lee were trying to achieve with the change.

[Deus ex Chris]

Exactly. The reason Asian Psylocke has lasted is that she's more popular than her previous rendition.

That's absolutely true, but "shoulder pad/big gun" Cable was also popular, as well as "big gun" Bishop and all of early Image. What did they all have in common? All style (if you can call it that) and no substance. Before she became the X-Men's resident T&A representative, Psylocke was actually a well-defined character. Boring or not, she had substance.

[Frodo-X]

What can I say? Sex sells. It's a proven fact.

[Cayman]

I like her better Asian.

[Beast]

I personally don't care much one way or the other, but i don't see what Claremont and/or Lee were trying to achieve with the change.
To tell an interesting story involving the character.

[Frodo-X]

To tell an interesting story involving the character.
That's MADNESS!!!



:p

[Canemacar]

That's absolutely true, but "shoulder pad/big gun" Cable was also popular, as well as "big gun" Bishop and all of early Image. What did they all have in common? All style (if you can call it that) and no substance. Before she became the X-Men's resident T&A representative, Psylocke was actually a well-defined character. Boring or not, she had substance.

Her becoming a sexpot doesn't immediately remove any substance she had before. You may not like where she has gone, but she has grown as a result of the change and been forced to deal with new challenges and had new faucets of her personality come to the fore. A writer's failure to impliment that is the fault of the writer, not a flaw of the character.

[david r]

Turning Betsy asian wasn't meant to make her more T&A. Jim Lee just draws ALL his women like that.

Turning her asian and into Lady Mandarin was meant to bring some new suspense to her character. The Hand changed her both physically and mentally into their assassin and slave. Even after Wolverine rescues her, they apparently could not reverse her Asian transformation.

Her Asian appearance was a constant reminder that she might still hold allegiance to the Hand. It's interesting that BETSY HERSELF never showed any sadness over her transformation.

[david r]

Betsy was a pretty serious character after she became Asian. I blame Scott Lobdell and his "Cyclops" lusting bit for the beginning of the end for an interesting Psylocke.

[Beast]

It's interesting that BETSY HERSELF never showed any sadness over her transformation.
Indeed. In fact she expressed that she liked the change on several occassions.

[david r]

The twist I liked about that story was the X-Men were nervous about Psylocke's allegiances. No one ever stopped to consider that maybe it wasn't Psylocke they should be worried about.

But Wolverine. :evilsmile

[Tobias March]

Turning Betsy asian wasn't meant to make her more T&A. Jim Lee just draws ALL his women like that.

Turning her asian and into Lady Mandarin was meant to bring some new suspense to her character. The Hand changed her both physically and mentally into their assassin and slave. Even after Wolverine rescues her, they apparently could not reverse her Asian transformation.

Her Asian appearance was a constant reminder that she might still hold allegiance to the Hand. It's interesting that BETSY HERSELF never showed any sadness over her transformation.

Is it my imagination, or has the X-Office been sucking at the marrow of Alan Moore's Captain Britain storyline for years!? Elizabeth Braddock/Psylocke (a codename which still doesn't scan for me, but anyway); Jaspers/Proteus; The Fury/Nimrod.

Whatever happened to coming up with original ideas? Just a thought.

[Faded]

REVANCHE LOVE! People should never change ethnicities. Damn Michael Jackson for trying to prove otherwise.

Mike Carey posted this clue yesterday: "Bear in mind that the characters who end up not being on the new roster won’t be disappearing off the face of the Earth. Well, not all of them. One at least will be even more prominent in some ways than before…"

I'm thinking that could mean that:

- most of the characters leaving are going to other teams.

- "Well, not all of them" implies someone might die or disappears.

- A character becoming more prominent suggests that someone might be going joining the Astonishing team or a solo title.

If anyone was to was to go to Astonishing, my guess would be Iceman. He's a fan favorite and been under utilized.

Axel Alonso had mentioned a Cable solo title being one of his goals when he took over as X Group Editor, so that could be eluding to that.

I don't think Lady M will remain, but I think given Mr. Carey's comments she'll become more prominent in some way. It's just a hunch.

[Deus ex Chris]

Her becoming a sexpot doesn't immediately remove any substance she had before. You may not like where she has gone, but she has grown as a result of the change and been forced to deal with new challenges and had new faucets of her personality come to the fore. A writer's failure to impliment that is the fault of the writer, not a flaw of the character.
At the time of her rise in popularity, she was all about style, and actual character development didn't happen much. Yeah, that's the fault of the writers, but that has little bearing on this particular point.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Disagree. When she began to get popular was immediately after the change. Back when Claremont was in charge, and i hate to turn this into a CC lovefest, there was substance to the character to an extent. She wasnt even some big sexpot character.

hell the last character you even see Psylocke remotely interested in was Doug in a flashback sequence some 30 issues before CC left.

Granted most writers have no idea what to do with her. Claremont seems to use her basically to punch people and 90s writers used her to either be sexy, or be in a relationship with the dullest character on the roster to add some heft behind his spazziness.

That being said, i will reiterate that the Kwannon saga was incomprehensible garbage and the worst x-storyline of all time. To think recent bowel movements such as Sins Past still live in its turd shadow is truly a feet to behold.

[Deus ex Chris]

Disagree. When she began to get popular was immediately after the change. Back when Claremont was in charge, and i hate to turn this into a CC lovefest, there was substance to the character to an extent. She wasnt even some big sexpot character.
And I disagree. Instead of allowing Betsy to grow and change through actual character development, Claremont used a plot device to make her an instant ninja. Then, of course, she was brainwashed to be the X-Men's enemy, and then she was just this "action junkie" in a skimpy outfit with a pink knife. Style, style, style and no substance.

Anyway, we're so off-topic. I'm sure Brian appreciates it.

[david r]

And I disagree. Perhaps the Siege Perilous WAS a plot device, but Lee/Claremont finally did something with her character. After many issues of her just standing in the background, looking pretty.

Remember, the "Asian-ninja" Psylocke story was never finished. Claremont has said there was an ending planned. We NEVER SAW the ending, because Marvel abruptly cancelled the Dark Wolverine Saga. Betsy was part-and-parcel of that epic story, and we never saw where ninja-Psylocke was supposed to lead.

[DDM]

I'm fairly certain that the idea to turn Psylocke asian came from Jim Lee, not Chris Claremont.

True. Chris Claremont had intended Betsy's Asian body to be temporary & by Uncanny X-Men #259, Psylocke's body would revert back to her Anglo-Saxon state. However, Uncanny X-Men #256-258 proved to be so popular, Betsy's body remained Asian.

But all you guys are taking this out of context. Betsy was NOT a popular character in the late 1980s. Her pre-asian persona was called boring and dull. Go read some of the fan letters from 1986-89. You'll read how many fans just plain did not like her.

I remember a few letters calling for Betsy's death. Betsy came off cold to the readers. But Chris Claremont had plenty of lattitude to develop Betsy given he was still writing Marvel's flagship title, Uncanny X-Men.

Lee & Claremont wanted to spice Psylocke up and bring another layer to her. And this they did, and it seemed to me, the asian Psylocke was MUCH more popular than her earlier version. So popular that it has become her signature look.

I still think Chris Claremont was going in a new direction with the ninja Psylocke. Had Claremont stayed on Uncanny X-Men & X-Men, Betsy--as the ultimate woman warrior--would become a liability to the team because she would take too many needless, reckless risks. Therefore, Betsy would still get into trouble & usually way over her head to deal with the villains alone.

I liked Betsy before & after the transformation. However, after she became the ultimate woman warrior, it opened new doors for the character. The shame is none of the editors or other writers were completely clueless what to do with Betsy. Therefore, they played up her sexpot appearance instead...

[david r]

Just think, this ALL STARTED because Betsy sent herself and the other X-Men into the Siege Perilous in Uncanny X-Men #251. That one simple act, resulted in much carnage that lead all the way to UXM #300.

[DDM]

Just think, this ALL STARTED because Betsy sent herself and the other X-Men into the Siege Perilous in Uncanny X-Men #251. That one simple act, resulted in much carnage that lead all the way to UXM #300.

Psylocke also mentally controlled the other X-Men to make them go through the Siege Perilous because she knew their deaths would be certain had they stayed to fight the Reavers. In Uncanny X-Men #256, Slaymaster mentions she is "betrayal incarnate" since she is betraying her very foundation & her beliefs to achieve her status as the ultimate woman warrior. Therefore, the Siege Perilois gave the X-Men--Dazzler, Colossus, Psylocke, & Havok--what they deserved by perverting their hearts' desires.

Remember when Psylocke discovered Havok became a Genoshan Magistrate? She was mad that he became the enemy, although he did learn to control his plasma powers...

I would have liked to have seen Claremont's story reach a pinnacle. He had so many threads leading somewhere; we, as the readers, just did not know what to expect. Which made the book suspensful, good, reading.

I'm not so certain Psylocke would have reverted back to her Anglo-Saxon self at the end of the Dark Wolverine Saga though...

[Omega Alpha]

Betsy was a pretty serious character after she became Asian. I blame Scott Lobdell and his "Cyclops" lusting bit for the beginning of the end for an interesting Psylocke.

Actually, it begun in the last issue of Jim Lee, but was developed by Nicienza, who wrote the triangle with them and Jean not much better than Austen wrote his.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

And I disagree. Instead of allowing Betsy to grow and change through actual character development, Claremont used a plot device to make her an instant ninja. Then, of course, she was brainwashed to be the X-Men's enemy, and then she was just this "action junkie" in a skimpy outfit with a pink knife. Style, style, style and no substance.

Anyway, we're so off-topic. I'm sure Brian appreciates it.

And i disagree.

So there.

Wait...what the hell is this thread about? :p

[We R. Venom]

And i disagree.

So there.

Wait...what the hell is this thread about? :p

Well as I see it, this thread is about speculating and opinion as well as stating what we know or what we think we know, untill we know more of what we knew or...thought that we knew?

How about whatever you want it to be.:D

[Frodo-X]

And i disagree.

So there.

Wait...what the hell is this thread about? :p
The shoes.


It's always all about the shoes.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

I thought it was the car


The chicks dig the car, Batman

[david r]

Back to the Summer Major X-Event:

After witnessing other crossover events with names like The Other, House of M, The Twelve, Infinite Crisis, Idenitity Crisis and Maximum Clonage, etc. I'm not sure I really desire anymore crossover events.

It just seems forced now. Editors sitting their writers around a table to shoot ideas. Not an organic story that has a reason to exist, other than making Marvel yet more money.

[Brett P]

Back to the Summer Major X-Event:

It's not summer, it doesn't start till November.


It just seems forced now. Editors sitting their writers around a table to shoot ideas. Not an organic story that has a reason to exist, other than making Marvel yet more money.

I think the seeds of a story have to be there first...otherwise there would be nothing to sit around or "shoot ideas" about.

With the current quality of the x writers, I'm hyped for it.

[streator]

quesada said in this week's joe fridays that gambit was mentioned a few times at this meeting, which i think is good news. i'd definitely like to see remy back in some form.

[david r]

Hmmm...that makes me think Gambit either is going to turn villain against the X-Men. Or they plan to kill Remy off for good.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Or they are going to give him a solo. I read somewhere they were thinking a Cable solo. So Gambit solo is right around the corner. As well as a bishop solo. Cuz those always work


Im still waiting for my Cable, Deadpool,Gambit and Bishop book. Just combine 'em all and it might work!

[Deus ex Chris]

Im still waiting for my Cable, Deadpool,Gambit and Bishop book. Just combine 'em all and it might work!
Throw in Psylocke, and we'll have a nice 90's nostalgia book, where being cool and bad ass replace character development. It'll be a grand old time!

[streator]

Or they are going to give him a solo. I read somewhere they were thinking a Cable solo. So Gambit solo is right around the corner. As well as a bishop solo. Cuz those always work


Im still waiting for my Cable, Deadpool,Gambit and Bishop book. Just combine 'em all and it might work!

i don't think gambit will get another solo for a while. same goes for bishop. i enjoyed both of their previous solos (especially nicieza's gambit) but i don't think marvel will be giving them another solo anytime soon.

axel alonso (the new line editor) mentioned that cable and (i think) forge needed a push and that something will probably happen with them in the future.

[Affinity]

Where is Bishop, anyway? I read Civil War: X-Men but I don't remember it's outcome. Bishop dropped off the map and I didn't even notice.

[Beast]

Where is Bishop, anyway? I read Civil War: X-Men but I don't remember it's outcome. Bishop dropped off the map and I didn't even notice.
If I recall correctly he was given General Lazar's position as head of Sentinel Squad O*N*E.

[Canemacar]

Throw in Psylocke, and we'll have a nice 90's nostalgia book, where being cool and bad ass replace character development. It'll be a grand old time!

Right. Because anything that came out of the 90's is inherently bad. :rolleyes:

[streator]

Where is Bishop, anyway? I read Civil War: X-Men but I don't remember it's outcome. Bishop dropped off the map and I didn't even notice.

at the end of civil war: x-men 4 val cooper offered him a position with the o.n.e. and bishop said he'd think about it.

he was also in civil war 6, alongside the pro-regs.

[Deus ex Chris]

Right. Because anything that came out of the 90's is inherently bad. :rolleyes:

Sarcasm from the Gambit fan. What will I do?

[Canemacar]

Sarcasm from the Gambit fan. What will I do?

Retreat into your elitism?

[Sophisticated_Gamer]

Interesting read, marco19. Thank you.

Condition Critical. The crossover revolves around Uncanny X-Men, New X-Men, X-Men & X-Factor.

The current lineup from X-Men will be stripped down. Only two or three members of the current team will remain. (I know many fans may not like that!)

Rogue is going to undergo some major changes? Mike Carey says "The story is going to change the status quo in the X-verse enormously, but NOT capriciously." That's pretty vague.

It sounds like the Sentinels standing guard at the X-Mansion will finally be dealt with. But it's not the core part of the story.

But, weren't the sentinels done with in the Xmen, Civil War cross over?

[Beast]

But, weren't the sentinels done with in the Xmen, Civil War cross over?
No. They just agreed to allow the 198'rs their freedom. They don't have to stay there any longer.

[Deus ex Chris]

Retreat into your elitism?
Perfection

[Canemacar]

Perfection

It's amazing how much perspective changes what one sees.

[Deus ex Chris]

It's amazing how much perspective changes what one sees.
Are you finished?

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Are you finished?

Im finished. Go fetch me a towel :D :p

[Canemacar]

Are you finished?

Whenever you are.

[Deus ex Chris]

Im finished. Go fetch me a towel :D :p
Whenever you are.

Fantastic. Let's all move on with our lives!

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

nah, you two should keep going


I think i have another one in me :D

[We R. Venom]

I wonder how big this event will actually be? There are always a number of events that get swept uner by the big ones even if they are really big. Also I onder what the structure of it will be. Will this event be in its own book or will it be within the other x-titles?

[Beast]

I wonder how big this event will actually be? There are always a number of events that get swept uner by the big ones even if they are really big. Also I onder what the structure of it will be. Will this event be in its own book or will it be within the other x-titles?
It's already been discussed throught this and the Mike Carey thread. There will supposedly be a main book that the primary event occurs in which will be drawn by Mark Brooks. They haven't announced the writer yet for it. And then Uncanny X-Men, Adjectiveless X-Men, New X-Men, and X-Factor will tie-in to the main book from there. The event will effect all the X-Books, even if they arn't direct tie-ins to the main event.

[We R. Venom]

Thanks a lot for the info Beast. I'm busy writing and I really didnt feel like reading 3 pages. The last few posts was enough. But anyway your kind for answering. Thats defiantely great info. I hope they find a writer soon(Mike Carey). I need to go find out more about Mark Brooks. Peace!

[Brett P]

It's already been discussed throught this and the Mike Carey thread. There will supposedly be a main book that the primary event occurs in which will be drawn by Mark Brooks. They haven't announced the writer yet for it. And then Uncanny X-Men, Adjectiveless X-Men, New X-Men, and X-Factor will tie-in to the main book from there. The event will effect all the X-Books, even if they arn't direct tie-ins to the main event.


wow that's the first I've heard of there being an actual book for the event with the 4 other titles tieing in...I thought the story was just running throughout those 4 titles and that was it. Where did this info come from?

[Faded]

Hmmm...I didn't know that. Mike seems to be at the focal point of this event, so hopefully he'll write it. I'm glad they've been planning this way ahead of time. Hopefully whoever is on art and writing chores will get a BIG head start and prevent any huge delays.

On a side note, I seem to recall WAAAY long ago (during Milligan's run on X-Men, but after Decimation) that there would be a crossover called "Project X" or something that was never discussed upon after first mention. I wonder if that has anything to do with the upcoming event.

[Beast]

I may be wrong about the main book. But I swear I read somewhere at CBR or Newsarama that Mark was drawing Storm again for the Primary Book with the other books tieing in. May be best to not take that as rock solid fact at just the moment. The event is a long way off, given it's not starting til November.

[Brett P]

The drawing Storm again comment was during an interview about the X-Men annual and Ultimate fantastic four...it was confusing for me 'cos it never stated where/how he would be drawing Storm. He then said something about hopefully being invloved in the X-event and joked about it involving resurrecting Storms mohawk hairstyle...

I have NO idea where you got the "primary book" thing from...I'm almost totally sure that the main event IS x-men/uncanny/new/x-factor

[Brett P]

NRAMA: OK, you're finally getting your hands on Storm and I know how much you love her with a Mohawk. When are you going to get Storm back in that mohawk already?

MB: Oh God, yes! How many times must I fall to my knees on the floor of my studio screaming to the heavens asking for a frosty white heavenly editorial miracle before we see that glorious Mohawk again?! You hear that, comic reading public? Start writing those letters c/o Marvel Comics demanding the return of the Mohawk. I'll be leading your charge like Spartacus!

(soz, conection playin up, triple posted so hadta edit)

[Brett P]

NRAMA: After the three issues of Ultimate Fantastic Four, can you give us a hint what you'll be doing next?

MB: Nothing to announce yet but I’m hoping to be back in the X-offices by the time next Summer’s X-event roles around. Hopefully with Mohawk Storm!

Sorry, I triple posted.

Why did he say "next summer"...?

It IS November-January right?

[Beast]

I think it was a slip of the tongue. And that he was referring to this year's X-Over.

[dreyson]

Isn't it a little early to say Psylocke should leave Exiles when she's only been in one issue?

The X-event sounds interesting, but I'm burn out on all this huge events after CW. But it looks like alot of planning is going into making this really good, so I'll give it a shot.

Why does Mike Carey's team need to change again? Just when thinks get good, everything changes.

[Mariah]

I may be wrong about the main book. But I swear I read somewhere at CBR or Newsarama that Mark was drawing Storm again for the Primary Book with the other books tieing in. May be best to not take that as rock solid fact at just the moment. The event is a long way off, given it's not starting til November.
Are you talking about the World War Hulk:X-Men mini?

[Brett P]

Too bad Wallflower is dead...she dropped the Hulk in like 20 seconds during a training exercise with the New Mutants squad!

[Omega Alpha]

Isn't it a little early to say Psylocke should leave Exiles when she's only been in one issue?

No, because it's a mistake for her to be there in the first place.


Why does Mike Carey's team need to change again? Just when thinks get good, everything changes.

Because he wants too, had it planned from the beginning, and of course some of the members, specially Sabretooth, couldn't last long there.

[streator]

I have NO idea where you got the "primary book" thing from...I'm almost totally sure that the main event IS x-men/uncanny/new/x-factor

i had not heard of a "main" book either, nor do i forsee one happening.

from everything i've heard it sounds like the crossover will be contained to the aforementioned titles.

[Beast]

No, because it's a mistake for her to be there in the first place.
That's your opinion. Marvel disagrees. Deal with it.

[Omega Alpha]

That's your opinion. Marvel disagrees. Deal with it.

I haven't denied that it was my opinion.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Too bad Wallflower is dead...she dropped the Hulk in like 20 seconds during a training exercise with the New Mutants squad!

I wonder if Wallflower is giving off pheromones as she rots?

[Mariah]

No, because it's a mistake for her to be there in the first place.
Agreed!
That's your opinion. Marvel disagrees. Deal with it.
Woah. Rude.

[jarrod]

I don't really mind the idea of Betsy in Exiles... she's at least sure to be handled well and given the spotlight. Eventually I'd like to see her return to 616 and the X-men though, maybe with Longshot in tow.

[Omega Alpha]

I don't really mind the idea of Betsy in Exiles... she's at least sure to be handled well and given the spotlight.

She could have both with Carey, and would be in the best X-book on the market to boot, instead of one the lowest selling and least acclaimed of Marvel's ongoings.

[jarrod]

She could have both with Carey, and would be in the best X-book on the market to boot, instead of one the lowest selling and least acclaimed of Marvel's ongoings.
Well sure... but they had to give Chris something after being booted off Uncanny. At least it's something he handles pretty well then. Maybe Betsy's high profile will help raise Exiles' own profile too, gotta stay positive...

[Omega Alpha]

Well sure... but they had to give Chris something after being booted off Uncanny. At least it's something he handles pretty well then. Maybe Betsy's high profile will help raise Exiles' own profile too, gotta stay positive...

They could have give Chris something: an alternate version of Psylocke. He could have anyone, including one exactly like 616, like Morph is very much like AoA's, but it's not from that reality. Better: he could even have a British version, like he wanted to, and everybody would be happy. Instead, he takes away the only version Mike Carey could use, while he could have any one he wanted.

[Sentinel K]

I don't get why everyone is moaning.

It's not like Carey is unable to tell his story without Betsy. He's getting on just fine.

Marvel obviously liked the pitch CC gave to Marvel about Psylocke and Exiles, otherwise she wouldn't be there.

You're complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet!

Betsy has only just arrived in Exiles. At least WAIT for it to be crap before complaining!

[Omega Alpha]

I don't get why everyone is moaning.

It's not like Carey is unable to tell his story without Betsy. He's getting on just fine.

Marvel obviously liked the pitch CC gave to Marvel about Psylocke and Exiles, otherwise she wouldn't be there.

You're complaining about something that hasn't even happened yet!

Betsy has only just arrived in Exiles. At least WAIT for it to be crap before complaining!

Again, my point is that she shouldn't be in Exiles in the first place, like all 616 characters, IMO (and i'm not alone), and Claremont could still have Psylocke AND let Carey write her.

[jarrod]

They could have give Chris something: an alternate version of Psylocke. He could have anyone, including one exactly like 616, like Morph is very much like AoA's, but it's not from that reality. Better: he could even have a British version, like he wanted to, and everybody would be happy. Instead, he takes away the only version Mike Carey could use, while he could have any one he wanted.
That's faulty logic anyway, as Carey could just as easily be given an "alternate" Betsy. There's already plenty of divergent timeline mutants living in 616, why not add another?

Claremont wanted to bring in 616 Psylocke specifically because of her status (being "remade" so well that she's immune to psychic and physical manipulation) being a provoking counter to the Exiles big new villian. I guess you could argue maybe an alternate Betsy Braddock might've undergone the same process... but what's the appeal there really? Claremont wanted the character, he was already using the character and he got the character. Bonus, the character happens to be one of the few thing Claremont handles consistantly well and arguably better than any other writer so far at that.

I'd love to see Carey's take on Psylocke sure, and I think she'd mesh wonderfully with the current X-Men team, but, well... it's just not going to happen, so then what the use in pushing the issue? Maybe if she were being handled horribly, thereby pushing a sort of "Carey rescue" agenda but I doubt that's going to be the case either. If any X-gal psychics currently need that sort of campaign, Rachel and Emma most definitely rank ahead of Betsy...

[Sentinel K]

Again, my point is that she shouldn't be in Exiles in the first place, like all 616 characters, IMO (and i'm not alone), and Claremont could still have Psylocke AND let Carey write her.

Why SHOULDN'T she?

Because YOU say so?

You haven't even read a FULL issue with Betsy!

[Brett P]

I'm personally really excited to have Besty in Exiles. It's always been an interesting book with (mostly) interesting and exciting missions...and it's not like there's no story reason - the Shadow King is heavily involved in her being there...

[Cayman]

I think it was a nice thing to do, giving Claremont a character he obviously likes writing.

[Omega Alpha]

Why SHOULDN'T she?

What's the purpose of Exiles?


You haven't even read a FULL issue with Betsy!

So, if a writer decided to have Ultimate Thor on the New X-men, i could not say it was a bad decision until i read it?

[Sentinel K]

What's the purpose of Exiles?

To tell good stories



So, if a writer decided to have Ultimate Thor on the New X-men, i could not say it was a bad decision until i read it?

Apples and Oranges. And you know it.

[Beast]

So, if a writer decided to have Ultimate Thor on the New X-men, i could not say it was a bad decision until i read it?
Your arguments get more and more illogical every time. That's not even a logical comparison.

[Rio_de_Janeiro]

Why SHOULDN'T she?

Because YOU say so?

You haven't even read a FULL issue with Betsy!


i don´t agree with alphaomega, but i believe (he/she/it) is entitled to think an idea is a bad idea. alpahomega is also entitled to change (his/her/its) opinion in case the said comic is liked, or maintain (his/her/its) opinion, otherwise.

rio

[cgar]

im loving all the psylocke talk but wont we get in trouble for being off topic of something anyways

do we know how many villains are going to be in this shindig, or we still just assuming its either Sinister or Exodus

ps..psylocke should of stayed in 616

[We R. Venom]

im loving all the psylocke talk but wont we get in trouble for being off topic of something anyways

do we know how many villains are going to be in this shindig, or we still just assuming its either Sinister or Exodus

ps..psylocke should of stayed in 616

I havnt read Exiles. Well because I dot read Exiles lol. Why is Psylocke i the Exiles book? I know new teams were picked but there must be a reason, right? What hapened?

[Omega Alpha]

Your arguments get more and more illogical every time. That's not even a logical comparison.

It's an (pretty obvious) exaggeration, which i'm using to prove my point. In both cases, we're talking about characters who are out of place and should never be allowed to be in that type of book (a 616 character in Exiles, an Ultimate character not in the Ultimate Universe).

[Sentinel K]

It's an (pretty obvious) exaggeration, which i'm using to prove my point. In both cases, we're talking about characters who are out of place and should never be allowed to be in that type of book (a 616 character in Exiles, an Ultimate character not in the Ultimate Universe).

Exiles is about the multiverse of which 616 is a part of. THERE is your reason for a 616 character to be there.

The Ultimate universe has no bearing on anything in the MU multiverse so the comparison makes no sense.

It doesn't prove your point at all.

[Beast]

It's an (pretty obvious) exaggeration, which i'm using to prove my point. In both cases, we're talking about characters who are out of place and should never be allowed to be in that type of book (a 616 character in Exiles, an Ultimate character not in the Ultimate Universe).
It's an exaggeration, and you're still trying to use it as a logical comparison. All it serves is to do is disprove your point, so I don't have a clue why you're trying to sabatoge your point. Betsy's no more out of place than anyone else in Exiles. In fact, given her connections to Otherworld it makes more sense for her to be there than most. Especially with her resistance to reality manipulation or being posessed, which are a threat due to Proteus. And because Roma wants her there, to ensure that Proteus doesn't regain control and destroy the multiverse.

Not to mention she's hardly the first person from the 616 Reality to be a member of the team. Remember Beak? Even Blink and Sabretooth have their origins as an altered version of the 616 Reality until Phoenix split the reality off into a entirely seperate numbered reality as revealed in the Age of Apocalypse 10th Anniversary stories. Plus the 616 reality has been visited 3 times, once when it was altered into the 616-HoM version.

[Zombienorthstar]

What's the purpose of Exiles?




To solve third world hunger.

EDIT: I also agree having Psylocke on the team is pheasible, seeing as the Exiles have had both members from the 616 universe and visited it themselves, they're all part of the same multiverse.

[Brett P]

I havnt read Exiles. Well because I dot read Exiles lol. Why is Psylocke i the Exiles book? I know new teams were picked but there must be a reason, right? What hapened?

It was to do with the return of Shadow King, out for revenge for Besty imprisoning him. When she died he was released something to do with an alternate dimension, and those Dark X-Men (it happened in the pages of New Excalibur)

[Omega Alpha]

It's an exaggeration, and you're still trying to use it as a logical comparison. All it serves is to do is disprove your point, so I don't have a clue why you're trying to sabatoge your point. Betsy's no more out of place than anyone else in Exiles. In fact, given her connections to Otherworld it makes more sense for her to be there than most. Especially with her resistance to reality manipulation or being posessed, which are a threat due to Proteus. And because Roma wants her there, to ensure that Proteus doesn't regain control and destroy the multiverse.

Exiles was created to be the alternate reality book, therefore there is no point of having 616 characters there. The fun of the book is precisely to explore alternate realities and characters which are mostly alternate versions of the 616 characters. And among all the characters in the multiverse, like i said before, Claremont could have an alternate reality Psylocke very much like the 616, or even British, like he wanted, and still tell the same story he's telling without making impossible for another writer to use Betsy in her book as a regular or even as a guest.



Not to mention she's hardly the first person from the 616 Reality to be a member of the team. Remember Beak?

Irrelevant E-lister who was never an X-man and no one else was interested in write.


Even Blink and Sabretooth have their origins as an altered version of the 616

Which was not 616.

[Beast]

Exiles was created to be the alternate reality book, therefore there is no point of having 616 characters there. The fun of the book is precisely to explore alternate realities and characters which are mostly alternate versions of the 616 characters. And among all the characters in the multiverse, like i said before, Claremont could have an alternate reality Psylocke very much like the 616, or even British, like he wanted, and still tell the same story he's telling without making impossible for another writer to use Betsy in her book as a regular or even as a guest.
The point is that Marvel and Claremont both want her there. One, Marvel gave him the thumbs up because CC never got to finish his story with her after he took so much time fighting to bring her back from the dead during and after X-Treme X-Men. That's one of the reasons why Marvel let him keep her. Two, because Marvel's hoping her inclusion will help boost sales for Exiles. A book that's been dancing just above the cancellation mark pretty much from the time it started. An alternate reality version succeeds in doing neither of these things. Because it's not the character people have read about since the 80's when she was introduced.
Irrelevant E-lister who was never an X-man and no one else was interested in write.
Actually he was an X-Man. Both Beak and Angel recieved honorary X-Men status in New X-Men. He's just as much an X-Man as any other honorary character that was never actually a full X-Man.
Which was not 616.
You are wrong on this point. AoA was 616 until Phoenix split it off from the 616 to prevent it from being wiped out of existance when the timeline was restored. That has already been proven and noted numerous times.

[Siddon]

I agree with Beast, <oh god I need a shower>

although I would rather her being brought back British but she is one of the big three changeling characters (Beast, Angel, Psylocke) whom Exiles should be made for.

I do think we should make every effort to forget Beak and his awesome world changing powers. Beak is the Poochie of Exiles.

[Omega Alpha]

The point is that Marvel and Claremont both want her there.

I know, but who cares? Both Marvel and JMS wanted Norman Osborn to have an affair with Gwen Stacy, so i can't complain? If they decide Chuck Austen should suceed Whedon in Astonishing, i have to accept the decision because Marvel wants so? What's the point of even have this forum?


You are wrong on this point. AoA was 616 until Phoenix split it off from the 616 to prevent it from being wiped out of existance when the timeline was restored. That has already been proven and noted numerous times.

But they are still alternate versions of the characters we read about every month, in a reality which Xavier was killed by Legion. The time-travel, alternate timeline, split off by the Phoenix is not relevant to my point.

[Faded]

If Betsy was in X-Men, then maybe Lady Mastermind wouldn't have rocked as hard as she did. ;)

[Slung]

If they decide Chuck Austen should suceed Whedon in Astonishing, i have to accept the decision because Marvel wants so? What's the point of even have this forum?


Psylocke is in Exiles - sorry. At least she wasn't killed off or turned into some fiery goddess and shunted to the white hot limbo. At least she is still in a book. At least you don't have hear me trash talk the character every chance I get. Be thankful. Some of us don't have those luxuries with our favorites. So please, stop whining.

[Volk1]

Why does Mike Carey's team need to change again? Just when thinks get good, everything changes. Tell me about it. It's like, the party just started!! Why be a party-pooper?

If Lady M goes........I go!!!! ......not really:)

If Betsy was in X-Men, then maybe Lady Mastermind wouldn't have rocked as hard as she did. Yeah...*sigh*.

Why do I think that somewhere down the line Lady M's and Emma Frost's destinies would coincide?

Something tells me Emma would hate on her for some reason.

[Beast]

Rogue still needs to deal with lady M for what she did in X-Treme. Or snog on her again. :D

[Omega Alpha]

Psylocke is in Exiles - sorry. At least she wasn't killed off or turned into some fiery goddess and shunted to the white hot limbo. At least she is still in a book. At least you don't have hear me trash talk the character every chance I get. Be thankful. Some of us don't have those luxuries with our favorites. So please, stop whining.

So, it's "Marvel's decision and i have to deal with it", in the words of our very friendly Beast? I just have to keep my mouth shut? While that happens, why you don't stop whining about Jean Grey? She's already in X-men: First Class and Ultimate X-men, no need to be on any other book:rolleyes:

[Karl H]

I'm sure Kirkman can ruin Ultimate Psylocke for you if you ask nicely enough...

[Sentinel K]

Claremont could have an alternate reality Psylocke very much like the 616, or even British, like he wanted, and still tell the same story he's telling without making impossible for another writer to use Betsy in her book as a regular or even as a guest.



And no one would give a flying f**k. Bringing Betsy into this book is going to bring in readers who don't give a toss about the alternate realities. They'll be someone for everyone. How is that a bad thing?

And as you said, Exiles is about alternate realities. 616 is one of many realities.

See where I'm going with this?

[Beast]

I'm sure Kirkman can ruin Ultimate Psylocke for you if you ask nicely enough...
Well, they did say that she might be turning up again.

I bet she's part of the 'All-New All-Different Ultimate X-Men'.

[ProfeZZor X]

My theory on Pandemic's quest to become another Rogue was right all along, so I wonder if my other theory on Rogue's condition will be on the money too.

It just occured to me that Pan's plan all this time was to mimic Rogue's powers. And by infecting her with strain 88, in an attempt to extract more mutant powers, maybe the effect will have the opposite effect. I'm talking in the sense that since she's absorbed mutant templates throughout the years, maybe the disease will have the opposite effect, and repower everyone she's touched. However, since she held on to Ms. Marvel the longest, maybe she'll wind up retaining those abilities.

Call me crazy, but it's just a hunch.

[Karl H]

Well, they did say that she might be turning up again.

I bet she's part of the 'All-New All-Different Ultimate X-Men'.

Words like 'All-New All-Different Ultimate X-Men' make me glad I only follow this title through X-board reviews...

[Omega Alpha]

I'm sure Kirkman can ruin Ultimate Psylocke for you if you ask nicely enough...

Or even if you don't ask:(

[Beast]

Words like 'All-New All-Different Ultimate X-Men' make me glad I only follow this title through X-board reviews...
Yeah, I hated seeing that stated on the cover art of Ultimate X-Men #81.

[Brian M.]

Yeah, I hated seeing that stated on the cover art of Ultimate X-Men #81.

Where is that posted...do I even want to ask?

[Beast]

Where is that posted...do I even want to ask?
It's in the Marvel Previews for this month. The big banner above the art for the issue.

[Brett P]

Hey, is it true the artists for the 4 titles are swapping around for the crossover? Bachalo on New, Medina on Uncanny, Tan on X-Factor and Raimondi on X-Men ?

[Brian M.]

It's in the Marvel Previews for this month. The big banner above the art for the issue.

Scan? Any chance someone can scan that?

[Zombienorthstar]

I hate the constant reloading and reschuffling of teams, it makes character development very hard.

Hopefully after this the rosters will stay put for a while.

[SnakeEater]

I hate the constant reloading and reschuffling of teams, it makes character development very hard.

Hopefully after this the rosters will stay put for a while.

This is one reason i find X-men on my pull/drop list so often. If they arent changing teams every 6 months, they are changing writers every other month and i cant stand trying to figure out whats going on. i collected x-men through all of Morrison, through Casey and Austin and Claremont on New X-men, Xtreme xmen and Uncanny and they they started changing all this crap around and i dropped it just as the recent "reload" hit. now i hear they are changing characters again/...damn

[blinkinrogue]

speaking of reshuffling teams, anybody know why they changed the classic lineup of rogue-dazzler-psylocke-longshot-storm-wolverine-colossus-havok back then? did x-men have a drop in sales? I was wondering about it considering that this lineup was really, really good in my opinion. I mean why change the lineup it if it sold a lot of comics?

[DDM]

speaking of reshuffling teams, anybody know why they changed the classic lineup of rogue-dazzler-psylocke-longshot-storm-wolverine-colossus-havok back then? did x-men have a drop in sales? I was wondering about it considering that this lineup was really, really good in my opinion. I mean why change the lineup it if it sold a lot of comics?

No. Uncanny X-Men remained in the top 10 due to Chris Claremont's love of the mutants; he always changed the team with the inclusion of a new member or the exits of several others. Cyclops had to be written out of Uncanny X-Men for X-Factor. Rachel Summers was written out of Uncanny X-Men for her unpublished Phoenix limited series. Colossus, Shadowcat, & Nightcrawler were written out of Uncanny X-Men to make room for new members Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler, & the reinstated Havok. Chris Claremont was restructuring Xavier's dream for the X-Men--making them global--when he placed them in Australia. The threats became all the more dangerous & the stakes grew higher which was supposed to culminate with the Shadow King & Dark Wolverine stories.

During this time, Chris Claremont & Alan Davis were working on Excalibur, a British X-Men book with more of Captain Britain's enemies & themes which Shadowcat, Phoenix, & Nightcrawler were placed so other creators could not use them.

There was less editorial politics in the 80's because Chris Claremont had more sway than he does now.

[blinkinrogue]

oh thanks, coz that always bugged why they had to change that lineup, they had every power "covered", well not all, but a lot, and they certainly did not lack in the strength department and never short of firepower. So maybe it was CC decision to really change his lineup even if it was selling extremely well. oh well.
I miss the australian setting, even before the animated series got out, i always wondered why the x-men/mutants were very popular then.

[Flameworthy]

speaking of reshuffling teams, anybody know why they changed the classic lineup of rogue-dazzler-psylocke-longshot-storm-wolverine-colossus-havok back then? did x-men have a drop in sales? I was wondering about it considering that this lineup was really, really good in my opinion. I mean why change the lineup it if it sold a lot of comics?

Claremont got rid of Dazzler because he hated the character. He was even going to kill off her off, but Marc Silvestri talked him out of it. Instead he sent her off into limbo, and replaced her with Jubilee.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Aussie x-men = greatest x-team ever

[rwsmith]

I hate the constant reloading and reschuffling of teams, it makes character development very hard.

Hopefully after this the rosters will stay put for a while.

I don't think they will. Brubaker just said that Uncanny will focus on a different team once his gets back to Earth, but that Warpath would still be a part of it.

I'm wondering if the Astonishing cast will still be off limits for him or if he'll be allowed to use them since the current arc is supposed to all take place in short span of time?

[Faded]

I hate the constant reloading and reschuffling of teams, it makes character development very hard.

Hopefully after this the rosters will stay put for a while.

I agree.

I think its cool for one team to constantly be reshuffled, but for the entire line...it's a little tiresome. Fortunately, PAD seems pretty intent on keeping XFI together.

[Alex A Sanchez]

WAIT! Two or three...does this mean the holy triumvirate of Rogue, Cannonball and Iceman may not remain?

I know!!!! I'm mad about this- those three characters are the original reason I picked up the book! That's crazy to do this, I think almost all of us here will name one of those three as their favorite on the team. Lady Mastermind is a pleasant suprise and I hope she stays as well.

On the other hand, crappy Cable will be sticking around. I hate that guy. Even Cable himself said that this isn't his team and he won't be sticking around- why keep him?

[Alex A Sanchez]

2) Mike said that only two or at the most three of the current members would still be on.

Re-read the article. I'm pretty sure Mike said that two of the core three members (i.e. Bobby, Rogue, Sam) will be left. I don't recall him saying how many total characters would be left.

[david r]

speaking of reshuffling teams, anybody know why they changed the classic lineup of rogue-dazzler-psylocke-longshot-storm-wolverine-colossus-havok back then? did x-men have a drop in sales? I was wondering about it considering that this lineup was really, really good in my opinion. I mean why change the lineup it if it sold a lot of comics?

Chris Claremont has stated at Comix-Fan that the Australian team was meant to exist much longer. I've always suspected that new editor Bob Harras shuffled them off.

I know that is an unpopular theme here, but it's no coincidence that Bob Harras came onboard in 1988. And the very next year, the Outback X-Men is slowly dismantled. The book was still VERY popular and a huge-seller, but there were complaints already about lingering subplots and disjointed storytelling. So Claremont lost his team and nearly all of his plans. Go Marvel !

[Alex A Sanchez]

Where is Stryfe. Didn't Carey say he was going to use him?

Dear God I hope not. He died with the eXecutioner's Song, right? He had his crossover, we don't need to give him another.

Does anyone else feel that Peter David should get Havok once he returns from space? I would love to see Alex and Lorna on X-Factor again, reunited with Jamie and pals.
Even though Jamie is my favorite character, he's a terrible leader. I want Havok back.

I'm also excited about this cross-over because we'll finally get to see M and friends fight.They haven't been in a major battle since their book began.

[Omega Alpha]

Does anyone else feel that Peter David should get Havok once he returns from space? I would love to see Alex and Lorna on X-Factor again, reunited with Jamie and pals.
Even though Jamie is my favorite character, he's a terrible leader. I want Havok back.

I hope not. Havok on the team would change the book completely, it would have to take a 180° under his leadership, he would never be interested in do what X-factor does currently.

[FONT="Tahoma"]
I'm also excited about this cross-over because we'll finally get to see M and friends fight.They haven't been in a major battle since their book began.

Nah, i like that X-factor is not the typical big fights and lots of explosions book.

[Faded]

I hope not. Havok on the team would change the book completely, it would have to take a 180° under his leadership, he would never be interested in do what X-factor does currently.

Nah, i like that X-factor is not the typical big fights and lots of explosions book.

Agreed 1000%. :)

[Zombienorthstar]

No. Uncanny X-Men remained in the top 10 due to Chris Claremont's love of the mutants; he always changed the team with the inclusion of a new member or the exits of several others. Cyclops had to be written out of Uncanny X-Men for X-Factor. Rachel Summers was written out of Uncanny X-Men for her unpublished Phoenix limited series. Colossus, Shadowcat, & Nightcrawler were written out of Uncanny X-Men to make room for new members Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler, & the reinstated Havok. Chris Claremont was restructuring Xavier's dream for the X-Men--making them global--when he placed them in Australia. The threats became all the more dangerous & the stakes grew higher which was supposed to culminate with the Shadow King & Dark Wolverine stories.

During this time, Chris Claremont & Alan Davis were working on Excalibur, a British X-Men book with more of Captain Britain's enemies & themes which Shadowcat, Phoenix, & Nightcrawler were placed so other creators could not use them.

There was less editorial politics in the 80's because Chris Claremont had more sway than he does now.


Ahh but there's a difference between characters coming and going one at a time over time...which i'm all for, than what's become known as a 'reload' where the entire roster changes and all past development is dropped for a new take on the characters.

[Joe Zool]

There seems to be a hint or clue in this week's Joe Friday's about the X-over:

Q: “IronWolf 02” - Will that new X-Men EVENT you guys have planed be a crossover in all the X-Men books like it was in the 90's and late 80's or will you be able to get the whole story with out braking the bank on all the X-titles?

JQ: Keep reading NJF, IronWolf 02, we have a bunch of X-Men panels this year across several conventions, so there’s lots of time for ton of news about the 198… 197… 196… Oops

Inside voice, Joe, inside voice!

So, it seems like the crossover will most likely involve the 198.

[Beast]

Thrilling. Hopefully we don't see Johnny Dee. Or if we do, he dies in a horribly painful way.

[Faded]

Johnny Dee rules your school!

[Hi-Fi]

Aparently, Storm will be involved in the crossover:

and yes, Storm will be involved in the upcoming X-Men event. That's one of the beauties of her and T-Challa being married, while they are now a family, they also have ties to their previous lives that aren't easily severed.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

and yes, Storm will be involved in the upcoming X-Men event. That's one of the beauties of her and T-Challa being married, while they are now a family, they also have ties to their previous lives that aren't easily severed.


He says "one of the beauties of her and T-challa being married" as if there is more than one beauty. Strange

[Joe Zool]

Aparently, Storm will be involved in the crossover:

Heh, my eyes just glazed over when I got to that part. Talk of BP/Storm BORES me.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

Heh, my eyes just glazed over when I got to that part. Talk of BP/Storm BORES me.

Why do you hate black people?

[Alex A Sanchez]

Havok on the team would change the book completely, it would have to take a 180° under his leadership, he would never be interested in do what X-factor does currently.

I agree that the dynamics would change, but that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Besides, he could take a hands-off approach and still let Jamie lead- just like Cable is doing now with Rogue's team of X-men.

I think Alex would love the work X-Factor is doing now. In the 90's he wanted to give up super-heroing and help rebuild Genosha. He's a guy who likes to help the small people and doesn't need to do adventuring.

Nah, i like that X-factor is not the typical big fights and lots of explosions book.

I'm torn on this point. I like what has gone on so far, but I also feel we could use some big battles once in a while. I guess I just miss the action of PAD's 90's X-Factor book. That title was able to handle both character development and action. This might have something to do with the 3-6 panel layouts that are common in today's comics. Stroman packed his pages with action.

The one complaint that people who don't like the book have is that there are no fights. "Nothing happens" they say.


- This is just an idea- PAD's a pretty prolific writer, I wonder if he could handle TWO X-Factor books? There are already too many characters in the current book to split the spotlight. Guido could join Alex and Lorna in a different city and run an XFI office from there. Maybe Rhane can join them, take a dupe of Jamie along, throw in Roberto DeCosta because every team needs some of his awesomeness, maybe Tabitha Smith, who is available now that Nextwave is on hiatus, and we can get Paige Guitherie back on an X-team again. I can see Rhane and Paige being good friends.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Why do you hate black people?

Its their beady eyes and floppy heads.

Oh wait. Those are Canadian. My bad.

[The M.E.]

I think Sinister is using his Acolytes to try to find and gather the remaining 198.....so he can kill them all. He's lying to and manipulating Exodus, and then he and his new Marauders will go on a massive 198 killing spree, making the mutant number even smaller, and really driving home the point that mutants really are in danger of extinction, which Marvel seems to really want to do. It's maruaders vs. acolytes with x-men trying to save the 198 and figure out what the hell is going on. Just a shot in the dark ;)....

[rwsmith]

Why would Sinister want to kill the remaining mutants on Earth? His agenda was all about genetically manipulating the mutant populace to produce a "master race" (hence his fascination with really powerful mutants like Scott and Jean). Similar to Apocalypse in that he wanted to weed out the weaker mutants (e.g., having the Morlocks killed during the Mutant Massacre), however, rather than a pure "survival of the fittest mentality" where the strongest mutants survive and that's that, Sinister preferred to take a more active hand in choosing the planet's inheritors.

My guess is that Sinister is being truthful and that he actually wants to help restore the mutant gene. And Cable will side with him, which will be somewhat controversial (assuming people care enough about him to worry about where his allegiance lies, which I certainly don't).

[The M.E.]

Why would Sinister want to kill the remaining mutants on Earth? His agenda was all about genetically manipulating the mutant populace to produce a "master race" (hence his fascination with really powerful mutants like Scott and Jean). Similar to Apocalypse in that he wanted to weed out the weaker mutants (e.g., having the Morlocks killed during the Mutant Massacre), however, rather than a pure "survival of the fittest mentality" where the strongest mutants survive and that's that, Sinister preferred to take a more active hand in choosing the planet's inheritors.

My guess is that Sinister is being truthful and that he actually wants to help restore the mutant gene. And Cable will side with him, which will be somewhat controversial (assuming people care enough about him to worry about where his allegiance lies, which I certainly don't).

good point, but im thinking along the lines that he's found a new way to 'create' mutants to replace the current species, which he sees as a failure and on the way out (much like the morlocks). But alot of what you wrote could line up with my idea, and could explain why cable would side with him if he does. Sinister gets his new master race chock full of summers DNA, cable gets an army of DNA relatives, everybody's happy (cept the xmen :) ).

[streator]

There seems to be a hint or clue in this week's Joe Friday's about the X-over:



So, it seems like the crossover will most likely involve the 198.

i took the comment to mean the crossover will deal with the dwindling number of mutants in general, not the specific 198 characters we've seen in the past (mammomax, magma, feverpitch, erg and those guys).

[rwsmith]

good point, but im thinking along the lines that he's found a new way to 'create' mutants to replace the current species, which he sees as a failure and on the way out (much like the morlocks). But alot of what you wrote could line up with my idea, and could explain why cable would side with him if he does. Sinister gets his new master race chock full of summers DNA, cable gets an army of DNA relatives, everybody's happy (cept the xmen :) ).

Oh, God. An army of clones carrying the Summers DNA!? That's enough to give me nightmares.:(

But it is kind of cool in a creepy sort of way. I'm thinking an army of X-man-looking characters (brown hair with a white stripe), all being led by Cable. Not really sure how the X-men would stop them---or if they'd even want to. Very Star Wars-esque.

[Joe Zool]

Why do you hate black people?

No, no, you've gotten it wrong.

I hate marriage. ;) Yes, that's right. I'm anti-marriage. :p

Okay, I know. That joke was weak. Alex's was better.

[Volk1]

[FONT="Tahoma"]Does anyone else feel that Peter David should get Havok once he returns from space? I would love to see Alex and Lorna on X-Factor again, reunited with Jamie and pals.
Even though Jamie is my favorite character, he's a terrible leader. I want Havok back.
No, Alex, no. Because I don't want to see Jamie relegated into second-place on his own team, plus Havoc is just.so.bland. and I think he'll always will be...


So, it seems like the crossover will most likely involve the 198.Like streator, I took it as some mutants are about to die, having the number decrease ever so much....and not sepcifically about the 198 but if it is about them....ewww.

I wouldn't mind seeing Outlaw and that Loreli girl with the living pink hair again though....:) Johnny Dee scares me not because of who he is but because what if he gets a strong role in the event? Who can write this guy and actually make him a star?

[Flameworthy]

No, Alex, no. Because I don't want to see Jamie relegated into second-place on his own team, plus Havoc is just.so.bland. and I think he'll always will be...


Ain't that the truth. Not to mention sleezy scumbag.

[Alex A Sanchez]

Ain't that the truth. Not to mention sleezy scumbag.

Wait what? Why does it seem like we have as many Havok haters as we have Havok lovers?

[Hi-Fi]

Wait what? Why does it seem like we have as many Havok haters as we have Havok lovers?

It's just that Madrox owns X-Factor now. And let's face it:

Madrox >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Havok

[xakko]

Wait what? Why does it seem like we have as many Havok haters as we have Havok lovers?

I blame Chuck Austen.

Havok was awesome under PAD.

[Mariah]

Wait what? Why does it seem like we have as many Havok haters as we have Havok lovers?
Cause he treated Popo like Poopoo:p

[Faded]

It's just that Madrox owns X-Factor now. And let's face it:

Madrox >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Havok

Pretty much.

[Mariah]

Pretty much.
Girl, I love your avatar! It's very Nelly Furtado via Hisako!

[Red Lotus]

I wouldn't mind seeing Outlaw and that Loreli girl with the living pink hair again though....:) Johnny Dee scares me not because of who he is but because what if he gets a strong role in the event? Who can write this guy and actually make him a star?


I hope they bring Outlaw back. She was a great part of the Deadpool/Agent X cast. I wouldn't mind her having some kind of small bit part in an X-book and if not that put her in Cable & Deadpool.

[Alex A Sanchez]

It's just that Madrox owns X-Factor now. And let's face it:

Madrox >>>> Havok

Fixed. Jamie's my favorite character, but Alex is also pretty friggin sweet too. I mean, he shares my name.;) Alex wouldn't have to be a leader- I've said this before elsewhere, but look at Cable on the X-men under Carey. He's not leading the team and doesn't try to rob Rogue of her authority. Alex could do the same. Such an organization as Jamie's are exactly in line with Alex's morals.


I blame Chuck Austen.

Havok was awesome under PAD.

And Havok was awesome under Chuck Austen as well. I have never read Claremont's Havok, but out of all of the other writers who have handled Havok, Austen is the second best after PAD.
"Whaaaah whaaaahh..." Some people may cry about he Nurse Annie thing, but Annie aside, Austen had Alex's personality down to a t. Those were some damn funny, damn good issues.

[Flameworthy]

Cause he treated Popo like Poopoo:p

haha That's hilarious! Yet it's so true.:(

[Leaper Queen]

Interesting read, marco19. Thank you.

Condition Critical. The crossover revolves around Uncanny X-Men, New X-Men, X-Men & X-Factor.

The current lineup from X-Men will be stripped down. Only two or three members of the current team will remain. (I know many fans may not like that!)

Rogue is going to undergo some major changes? Mike Carey says "The story is going to change the status quo in the X-verse enormously, but NOT capriciously." That's pretty vague.

It sounds like the Sentinels standing guard at the X-Mansion will finally be dealt with. But it's not the core part of the story.

So it does not include the astonishing team!

Meaning,; no worries if the Brakeworld aventure gets delayed a couple of time more and the center of the story will finally not be Cyclops, Frost and Wolverine, meaning: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!!

[Hi-Fi]

So it does not include the astonishing team!

Meaning,; no worries if the Brakeworld aventure gets delayed a couple of time more and the center of the story will finally not be Cyclops, Frost and Wolverine, meaning: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!!

No, Mike said that the Astonishing team will be right in the middle of the crossover, but it will be handled by him and Brubaker.

[Beast]

So it does not include the astonishing team!

Meaning,; no worries if the Brakeworld aventure gets delayed a couple of time more and the center of the story will finally not be Cyclops, Frost and Wolverine, meaning: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah!!
No, it will include the Astonishing team. Just not the book.

[Mariah]

haha That's hilarious! Yet it's so true.:(
I feel your pain. La mort Debbie does Dallas=Husk.:(

[Leaper Queen]

My guess: Pandamic infects Rogue and other mutants with this virus. One by one the remaining mutants will die (of course only B-,C- and D-listers).

Exodus and his Acolytes and Sinister (all his mutant DNA samples will be infected as well!!) and his Marauders will work together, trying to stop this Pandemic and his virus, the X-Men will just panic big time.

I think they planned this croosover a long time ago and that's why we are getting to know Karima, Lady M and warpath a bit better. So we will start loving them and then they will get infected and die. Karima and Lady M are probably allready infected in Pan's lab and that's why Lady M has those major headaches (!)

They also mentioned we will hear more of Cece Reyes, she will probably be alive, just to get infected also. Probably others like some of the 198 camp like Magma, Karma, Skids, Erg, etc will be in big danger as well as ex members like Lifeguard and T-Bird III.

This way they will get rid of ever more mutants, so it will be really special to be a mutant.

The centre of the story will be Rogue suffering from this virus. She will life, but will be changed for ever.

How about this?

[blinkinrogue]

i dont think the virus can touch karima... she is not even a mutant i think, plus with all that cybernetics, i doubt it... also, lady M seems to be infected with something else...
boy, what's happening will hte infection spreading around...

[Alex A Sanchez]

My guess: Pandamic infects Rogue and other mutants with this virus. One by one the remaining mutants will die (of course only B-,C- and D-listers).

Exodus and his Acolytes and Sinister (all his mutant DNA samples will be infected as well!!) and his Marauders will work together, trying to stop this Pandemic and his virus, the X-Men will just panic big time.

I think they planned this croosover a long time ago and that's why we are getting to know Karima, Lady M and warpath a bit better. So we will start loving them and then they will get infected and die. Karima and Lady M are probably allready infected in Pan's lab and that's why Lady M has those major headaches (!)

They also mentioned we will hear more of Cece Reyes, she will probably be alive, just to get infected also. Probably others like some of the 198 camp like Magma, Karma, Skids, Erg, etc will be in big danger as well as ex members like Lifeguard and T-Bird III.

This way they will get rid of ever more mutants, so it will be really special to be a mutant.

The centre of the story will be Rogue suffering from this virus. She will life, but will be changed for ever.

How about this?

That sounds like an excellent guess, but I hope to Cockrum that we don't have another major X-event based on a virus. First there was the Techno-Virus, then a decade of the Legacy Virus (which was the headlining 'villian' for its own series of major events), now this new Pandemic has had a little spotlight. I hope that a little is all it ever sees.

[Volk1]

My guess: Pandamic infects Rogue and other mutants with this virus. One by one the remaining mutants will die (of course only B-,C- and D-listers).
I think they planned this croosover a long time ago and that's why we are getting to know Karima, Lady M and warpath a bit better. So we will start loving them and then they will get infected and die. Karima and Lady M are probably allready infected in Pan's lab and that's why Lady M has those major headaches (!)

They also mentioned we will hear more of Cece Reyes, she will probably be alive, just to get infected also. Probably others like some of the 198 camp like Magma, Karma, Skids, Erg, etc will be in big danger as well as ex members like Lifeguard and T-Bird III.

How about this?

Blasphemy! Lady M will never die! :evilangry

But that would suck and wouldn't make sense if Marvel established Warpath and Lady M just to kill them off...only the die hard Q-list fans like myself are affected. Why don't they kill off Nightcrawler or Kitty to make an impact? A minority of fans would be sad if they brought back Cece Reyes just to kill her, but a Majority of fans would be devastated if they killed off Kurt.

I don't like your idea because I don't like the idea of cannon-fodder and the poor C-listers being apart of that. If that's the only reason they survived M-Day then it sucks, because there are too many stories to tell.

Okay, well, everybody except Thunderbird 3. ;)

[DDM]

My guess: Pandamic infects Rogue and other mutants with this virus. One by one the remaining mutants will die (of course only B-,C- and D-listers).

Exodus and his Acolytes and Sinister (all his mutant DNA samples will be infected as well!!) and his Marauders will work together, trying to stop this Pandemic and his virus, the X-Men will just panic big time.

I think they planned this croosover a long time ago and that's why we are getting to know Karima, Lady M and warpath a bit better. So we will start loving them and then they will get infected and die. Karima and Lady M are probably allready infected in Pan's lab and that's why Lady M has those major headaches (!)

They also mentioned we will hear more of Cece Reyes, she will probably be alive, just to get infected also. Probably others like some of the 198 camp like Magma, Karma, Skids, Erg, etc will be in big danger as well as ex members like Lifeguard and T-Bird III.

This way they will get rid of ever more mutants, so it will be really special to be a mutant.

The centre of the story will be Rogue suffering from this virus. She will life, but will be changed for ever.

How about this?

I hope the editors are more creative than this Legacy Virus redux garbage.

[UncannyAsianGirl]

Ahhhh! Huge update guys! :eek:

X-posing the Truth! (http://www.wizarduniverse.com/magazine/wizard/003582827.cfm) Check it out!

Basically it's a Q&A with all the writers involved in the huge X-event, (Carey, Brubaker, Kyle, Yost, PAD, and editor Andy Schmidt) and they're answering questions about it.

Hmm... no replies so far, off to make a new thread for it I guess... :D

[Faded]

LoL creating threads arr fun.

Thanks UAG, my favorite superspy!

[AuroraNstar]

So...is this to be the crossover where Northstar and Aurora join? I really liked them in the Supernova's arc and the Annual. It was nice to see Jean Paul act like a decent human being to someone other than Aurora for a change. It lets people know that he's human.