Retrospective: House of M

[Hush Little Batman]

Now that time has passed and (perhaps) emotions have settled down, how do you feel about the House of M storyline? Was it a good, bad or mediocre? Did it help or hurt the MU by reducing the total number of mutants? Should Wolverine have gotten his memories back at the end?

Give your thoughts on its pros and cons.

[RaggtyMan]

Personally i thought it was awesome! it was a well thought out story and it took the mu in an interesting direction.

[Mike Cross]

I bought it, read it, decided i didn't really like it. It did what is was supposed to do in that it lessened the mutant popultaion, but like all things, that didn't last, so it was a wasted opportunity. I sold the series as it was not a keeper.

[XPac]

To me it was a fine story. Reading it all in one sitting in trade form makes for a solid read.

It accomplished what it needed to accomplish, and made for an effective transitioanl piece from Disassembled to the pre-Civil War enviroment.

I don't agree with the Wolverine thing... though I understand their logic in doing it.

The decimation was somewhat pointless in that only the second string mutants lost their powers. But at the same time I do think there were too many mutants. So I agreed with that.

My overall opinion is that while I wouldn't call it great by any means, it was a solid story that doesn't deserve some of the flack it gets.

[Joe Acro]

I do not think Wolverine should have gained his memories, but that is not directly a House of M problem. I do not understand why only most mutants lost their powers.

Overall, though, I thought it was a decent story. The fallout from it could have been handled better, but that's not the fault of the story itself.

[Brian "Vash" Ashby]

House of M couldnt be more garbage if it was sitting in Sanford and Son's front yard,


....dummy.

[brundlefly]

The story/crossover itself was mediocre-to-bad. Seen the divergent alternate timeline done much better elsewhere and the series was padded out to eight issues when it only had enough story content for four. The aftereffects have been more interesting, though, as they gave us PAD's new X-Factor and the Son of M mini, "fixed" Morrison's mutant population explosion by reducing the number of mutants severely, and awakened the Children of the Vault over in Carey's X-Men. Taking away Xavier's powers has made him more interesting in Uncanny X-Men, as well. Hard to say regarding Logan and his memories, actually. The only place that's really being addressed is in the snail's pace ORIGINS series. In his other MU appearances he behaves no differently and rarely if ever mentions having all his memories back.

[Magneto Rocks]

Slow, slow, slow, slow. The whole thing is undermined because two of it's key themes- the X-Men wanting to kill Scarlet Witch and Scarlet Witch even HAVING these powers- are ridiculous and poorly addressed. Plus it shows what Bendis' idea of a Marvel-wide crossover is: Astonishing x-Men + Avengers.

Issues 2-6 are slow, dull tripe. Issue 1 is undermined by a weak premise. Issue 7 is undermined by poor art and the fact that the "true" mastermind was incredibly obvious all along. Issue 8 was filler.

And of course the whole thing was hideously undermined because it had basically zilch consequences. Nearly every X-Men book has totally forgotten the entire 198 idea, Iceman's powers were back in weeks, Magneto wasn't used and then went away in preperation for Uncanny 500, Prof X returned pretty shortly, the spider-gwen idea collapsed utterly and Wolverine having his memories back has done nothing but bring about the latest contender for Worst Marvel Book on the Market.

[Mystique25]

It wasn't as bad as I thought it had been back then. Still it was not that good, I liked Civil War, and Infinite Crisis much better. I know Infinite Crisis was DC, but it came out like right after, and I enjoyed it more. The thing that would have probably made it better would be if it had been 6 issues rather than 8. The one good thing I think it did do is it is bringing about some good storylines now. I know it's over a year later, but now we're getting stories spinning out of it in a sense in New X-men with issue 37, and then Carey's X-men.

[jmc247]

The House of M was a great idea, with great art and a decient story, but the execution was flawed in a couple ways.

Wolverine somehow managed to get twice the lines as Pietro, Wanda, Polaris, and Magneto combined. The House of M wasn't origionally supposed to be this massive crossover according to Bendis, it was supposed to focus on Magneto and his family. By making it a huge crossover and by making the House of M an almost Wolverine centric story Lorna, Pietro, Wanda, and Magneto ended up having much to little interaction.

Magneto hasn't even had a real conversation with Wanda or Polaris since the 90s.

[Will.S]

Upon more read through's I enjoy it more and more. Both as a self contained type of story and in seeing certain glimpses into the future looking back at it (Luke Cage as leader, Spider-Man outed, Wanda and Clint falling out, Ms. Marvel wanting a solo career, Sentinels abound, Wolverine's memories).

I was excited about Wolverine remembering his memories but Way's Origins isn't really doing it as well as I would have hoped, Marc Guggenheim did some cool stuff with it though. As far as the mutant area goes, I thought it was a good idea to pair down the mutant population.

Alot of people complain that the repowerings made the whole thing moot which in a sense it did, but also as a result:

- Quicksilver and Polaris had their powers change (QS moreso)

- The return of Apocalypse and creation of Darwin and Vulcan

- District X is primarily a human town reflected in X-Factor as well as Rictor and Quicksilver being affected

- The New X-Men school has been consolidated into the team we see now

The artwork throughout House of M gorgeous, can't wait to see Coipel's Thor. The only thing was that it should have had more content in other places and I agree that Wolverine should have been downplayed more but otherwise, I really liked it.

[jmc247]

- Quicksilver and Polaris had their powers change (QS moreso)



Have I mentioned I hate the idea that Lorna has a little machine in her head that "mimics" her powers.

She isn't a mutant, she has a machine in her head.

[Will.S]

Have I mentioned I hate the idea that Lorna has a little machine in her head that "mimics" her powers.

She isn't a mutant, she has a machine in her head.
Still, it has storytelling potential. Brubaker adressed it in a cool way when the X-Men's threat levels were being formulated by the robots. It could be celestial tech as well.

[DDM]

House of M is a poorly thought story given Bendis lacks a comprehensive understanding of the Scarlet Witch's powers: Wanda Maximoff alters probability, but not reality itself. In other words, the Scarlet Witch can use her hex spheres to make a healthy tree fall down or even catch fire, but she cannot transform the tree into a lambrogini.

House of M suffers from horrible pacing which leads back to the idea itself being the root of the problem; decompression & Bendis plot devices--Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, & Layla Miller--just add insult to injury.

House of M is a perfect example how not to do a crossover. At best, House of M is a 48 page story decompressed into a 8 issues.

House of M is a lemon when trying to make lemonade from the disaster gives the reader a load of crap in a bottle. At best, House of M is fertilizer.

[XPac]

House of M is a poorly thought story given Bendis lacks a comprehensive understanding of the Scarlet Witch's powers: Wanda Maximoff alters probability, but not reality itself. In other words, the Scarlet Witch can use her hex spheres to make a healthy tree fall down or even catch fire, but she cannot transform the tree into a lambrogini.



It's been a while since I read it... but didn't Byrne establish that Scarlet Witch could effect reality or time or something like that during his run on West Coast Avengers? I recall it was some kind of storyline involving Immortus.

I thought Bendis whole story came off somewhat reminiscent of that.

[Arsenal7]

My views remain unchanged- Bendis should not be permitted to write the Avengers or large cross-overs. He just seems to lack an understanding of about half the team.

I did not mind Wolvie getting his memories though, just to get him onto something else.

[DDM]

It's been a while since I read it... but didn't Byrne establish that Scarlet Witch could effect reality or time or something like that during his run on West Coast Avengers? I recall it was some kind of storyline involving Immortus.

I thought Bendis whole story came off somewhat reminiscent of that.

The Scarlet Witch literally changed Hawkeye's arrow to have a flaw when the same arrow did not have the flaw before Wanda's hex sphere. This still deals with altering probabilities; whereas, Bendis fundamentally changed Wanda's hex spheres to a reality warping mutant such as Proteus, Jamie Braddock, Sir James Jaspers, & the mutate, the Molecule Man.

[niall mc cann]

Not much to say. I haven't read it since i bought it.

The whole premise was hokey; been done before a thousand times. the chief architect behind it all was obvious from the get-go, and that hurt it.

I don't rate it. it wasn't bad, just totally pedestrian. i'd seen it done before a thousand times. not worth the money or the effort of reading, to me.

And i say that as a bendis fan. I like his writing, generally, and i don't feel the book was badly written; it was just... boring to me.

i liked the house of M Hulk trade. I thought that was fun.

[milhouse123321]

I enjoyed the Fantastic Four and Iron Man HOM minis

[Alan2099]

Boring, too long, mischaracterized, and anti-climatic.

In short. It's Bendis.

[Expletive Deleted]

I thought it was a moderate success in terms of worldbuilding and a moderate failure in terms of storytelling.

It wasn't great, but it wasn't worth the amount of vitriol that was tossed around.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think all that can be said about this series has been said, and repeatedly.

It was 3-4 issues worth of good story spaced out over 8. It happens.


SEAN

[Christopher O]

The Scarlet Witch literally changed Hawkeye's arrow to have a flaw when the same arrow did not have the flaw before Wanda's hex sphere. This still deals with altering probabilities; whereas, Bendis fundamentally changed Wanda's hex spheres to a reality warping mutant such as Proteus, Jamie Braddock, Sir James Jaspers, & the mutate, the Molecule Man.

He didn't fundamentally change anything. What exactly is altering probability if not nudging reality? All Bendis did was expand on Wanda's existing powers.

Anyway, I enjoyed the story, but it was slow and padded and should've dealt with more than it actually did. Of course, the scenes between Magneto, Wanda, and Quicksilver were great and worth it, as were the scenes with Spider-Man. I really felt for him.

[Faded]

Funny this thread should come up. I recently reread House of M (at first for scan purposes).

My opinion didn't change much. I appreciate the art much more now, though!

I do have a more positive feeling towards the House of M world now. I think that was a concept that should've been more fleshed out in-depth rather than the empty execution I feel it had.

My opinion of Decimation hasn't changed all that much--I still dislike it immensely--except that I may have liked it more if its execution had been handled better and different mutants got saved/depowered. I still prefer Morrison's landscape of a booming mutant population as opposed to what we have now. Essentially, the X-Men don't feel weaker. They still have their powerhouses, numbers, and veteran X-Men on their side. The losses don't seem to lie in their lap or feel localized. Effectively, it merely wiped out figures in the X-Men's scrapbook that now face hindrances in ever being used again.

[Peeps]

i didnt read any of the house of m series aside from the trade paperback of the main title. i thought it was excellent and was shocked that it was pietro, i just didnt see it coming. i definately invested in it from a readers standpoint when layla gave peter back his real memories and the anguish he felt. to me the art only enhanced the story and i didnt think it was slow at all, but thought the pace was set according to the story itself. had they made it a 4 issue series instead of 7 or 8 or whatever it was, people would then be asking, well how come this happened or why didnt you show this.

id say A-

[gunz]

it really could have been good, like really good, but in the end, I think it just wound up jus aight. I love what they did with quicksilver, and if nothing else, it lead to son of m, which was f@#$in awesome. It did have it's "wow that rules moments". Like when spider-man finds his whole life of happiness is a lie, that was really powerful. I also, this may just be me, thought an over looked scene was when they go to "awaken" captain america, and they decide not to because he is merley just an old man who couldn't help. It was just something I never would see captain america as. cap has never been usless, and there he was.

In the end, it was jsut a big reset tht didn't need all the crossovers or side books. I will admit that I thought the reset was a good idea (but iceman getting his powers right back, c#$% teasers).

give it a b-

[overcomebyfumes]

I think all that can be said about this series has been said, and repeatedly.

It was 3-4 issues worth of good story spaced out over 8. It happens.


SEAN


I agree, except it was 3-4 issues of BAD story spaced out over 8.

It was an X-Men / Avengers crossover that failed to utilize any X-Men or Avengers other than Wolverine. None of them had any memorable moments, and none affected the outcome of the story one way or the other.

(Side note - looking back, the "underground resistance" really seems to inadvertantly foreshadow Cap's resistance in Civil War. Many of the same characters and everything.)

There was Layla Miller, who conviently held the key to the entire thing. A character who has no purpose other than "walking plot device". She could have been a lamp or an endtable or a small glass cube for all the personality Bendis gave her.

Gratitous re-killing of Hawkeye just for the sake of rubbing it in out faces. "We're cracking the internet in half." lol. HoM was hyped as "Not just another alternate reality! Not a what-if story!" and, ultimately, that's just what it was. The Quasada hype-machine was out of control. I know that shouldn't reflect poorly on the actual story, but when the story itself was so poor, that just makes me more resentful.

The whole thing could have been easily avoided if Bendis had just given it a little thought. There was a "mutant cure" storyline going on in Astonishing X-Men. Why not use that? Where's Leech? The Hellfire Club has about a gizillion mutant depowering devices. If fans can come up with such easy end-runs around your story, you're not doing your job as a writer.

"No more mutants" somehow failed to mean no more mutants. I can accept that the core X-Men were somehow immune due to some "reality bubble" or suchlike. If they'd stuck to their guns and really pared down the X-books, I'd have been seriously impressed. Needless to say, they didn't.



---------------------------------------

The one high point for me was HoM: Fantastic Four with Doom, Valeria, and Kristoff. I'd love to see them in the regular MU, although that'll be somewhat difficult since Valeria (and Kristoff?) is (are?) dead. (...but surely not even the walls of death can deter DOOM!!!!)


Pax.

[Magneto Rocks]

Have to throw in- it was also another exercise in Bendis playing favourites. You get the feeling this is his dream world: He doesn't have to use Cap, or Iron Man, or the Fantastic Four or any of those other stupid heroes- he gets to make Luke Cage a massive force, Spidey a key player, everything revolve around WOLVERINE. I suppose it's a miracle we didn't have more Jessica Jones and Jessica Drew.

[Omega Alpha]

It had some good moments, the art was very good, and would be a great read if it had 4 issues, but depowering most of mutantkind was a really stupid idea that took away great potential for storylines, and the whole thing was too decompressed.

And the "ideal worlds" for the heroes had some good ideas, like Spidey with Gwen and Ms. Marvel being the most popular hero, but many were utterly stupid. Pietro not being with Crystal and Luna and Wolverine not with Mariko were very bad, but i think that in his ideal world Cyclops still being unable to control his powers and being an orphan are the worse, because a 5 year old could say what's wrong with it. :rolleyes:

[The Fury]

I actually thought it was quite good, not because the story was all that indepth or anything. What I found odd is that the whole things showed how STUPID the heroes were.

They just presumed Magneto did something bad and went along with it, never thinking otherwise. They acted without thinking out of anger. Showed their weak side really.


One thing I did find odd is Mystiques and Toads involvement in the story, out of all the heroes...well they aren't and they for some reason went along with the heroes to stop Magneto and change the world back. A mutant dominant world is what they wanted so why would they go along with it. ESpecially Toad who actually like most the heroes got what he wanted out of HoM, respect. Of course I've explained my reasons as to why I think Toad should know about the HoM and I wish Marvel would pick up on this.


I'm also annoyed Marvel said 'NO' to turning Beast back into Ape and giving Rogue perminant Cap Marvel powers. (both thing Bendis wanted to do and that I liked the idea of).

[Omega Alpha]

I'm also annoyed Marvel said 'NO' to turning Beast back into Ape and giving Rogue perminant Cap Marvel powers. (both thing Bendis wanted to do and that I liked the idea of).


Whedon did not wanted Beast to change, and i have no idea why Rogue hasn't.

[The Fury]

Whedon did not wanted Beast to change, and i have no idea why Rogue hasn't.

That was X-men editorial. Can't remember exactly why, but I guess they thought having Rogue have Sunfire's powers instead of Cap M's was better....somehow.

[DDM]

That was X-men editorial. Can't remember exactly why, but I guess they thought having Rogue have Sunfire's powers instead of Cap M's was better....somehow.

I think you mean the original Ms. Marvel's powers. Carol Danvers had slightly different powers than Captain Marvel, although she was born from him when she was exposed from Psyche Magnatron in Captain Marvel #18.

Rogue also rarely manifested Ms. Marvel's 7th sense powers & could not change from regular clothes to costume as Ms. Marvel did.

[Sean Whitmore]

I agree, except it was 3-4 issues of BAD story spaced out over 8.(SNIPPED)

Having just started to reread it, I find I can't really argue with you. Let me rephrase it as 3-4 mediocre-to-bad issues, with a few great moments of character interaction, spaced out over 8 issues.


SEAN

[Sean Whitmore]

I actually thought it was quite good, not because the story was all that indepth or anything. What I found odd is that the whole things showed how STUPID the heroes were.

They just presumed Magneto did something bad and went along with it, never thinking otherwise. They acted without thinking out of anger. Showed their weak side really.

Such presumptions are old-hat for the Marvel heroes. See also: any time Thanos gets involved.


I'm also annoyed Marvel said 'NO' to turning Beast back into Ape and giving Rogue perminant Cap Marvel powers. (both thing Bendis wanted to do and that I liked the idea of).

Saying "no" for no good reason other than that they can? Sounds like the X-Office.


SEAN

[XPac]

[COLOR="Purple"]I actually thought it was quite good, not because the story was all that indepth or anything. What I found odd is that the whole things showed how STUPID the heroes were.

They just presumed Magneto did something bad and went along with it, never thinking otherwise. They acted without thinking out of anger. Showed their weak side really.




In their defense though, it was a reasonable conclusion. How many people aside from Magneto would wish for Magneto to be ruler of the world? It's a pretty short list. If I was in their shoes, I'd assume it was him as well.

[jmc247]

In their defense though, it was a reasonable conclusion. How many people aside from Magneto would wish for Magneto to be ruler of the world? It's a pretty short list. If I was in their shoes, I'd assume it was him as well.

The Scarlet Witch was clearly insane and she could have done the whole thing on her own acting out some insane delusion.

Believing that Magneto would use his daughter to alter reality for his own benifit is completely antithetical to who 616 Magneto is as a person. Ultimate Magneto and movie Magneto act on a very different personal moral level then 616 Magneto and would have no problem with such an act or even exterminating all of humanity out right. What drives 616 Magneto is his desire to protect his race not his desire to be king of the world or to get revenge on humanity and unlike the other versions of him 616 Magneto isn't willing to go to any length to get what he wants.

[Will.S]

In their defense though, it was a reasonable conclusion. How many people aside from Magneto would wish for Magneto to be ruler of the world? It's a pretty short list. If I was in their shoes, I'd assume it was him as well.
That's true, by the time they knew who it really was it was too late and Quicksilver started blitzing, Magneto killed him, Wanda revived him....just lots of crazyness going on.

[Sean Whitmore]

In their defense though, it was a reasonable conclusion. How many people aside from Magneto would wish for Magneto to be ruler of the world? It's a pretty short list. If I was in their shoes, I'd assume it was him as well.

Actually, we were kinda in their shoes, a little. The readers weren't told who the culprit was either, and a lot of them brushed Magneto off as too obvious.


SEAN

[XPac]

Actually, we were kinda in their shoes, a little. The readers weren't told who the culprit was either, and a lot of them brushed Magneto off as too obvious.


SEAN

Yes, but there's a difference between actually being in a situation and knowing that you're observing a fictional story.

In a real life crime scene, cops won't assume that fingerprints are TOO obvious then start checking old janitors and caretakers to see if they're wearing rubber they can rip off.

In real life you DO assume the most obvious logical person is the culprit. In the fictional world, you often do the opposite.

[Sean Whitmore]

Yes, but there's a difference between actually being in a situation and knowing that you're observing a fictional story.

In a real life crime scene, cops won't assume that fingerprints are TOO obvious then start checking old janitors and caretakers to see if they're wearing rubber they can rip off.

In real life you DO assume the most obvious logical person is the culprit. In the fictional world, you often do the opposite.

Heh, fair point.


SEAN

[jmc247]

In real life you DO assume the most obvious logical person is the culprit. In the fictional world, you often do the opposite.

But, in the House of M we knew who the real life culprit was as did those with their memories back. They knew it was Wanda, the only question was if she was forced or not to change the world.

Planning an all out attack on Magneto and his family without collecting info to find out what was going on behind the scenes and what sides the different actors in the House of M would be on when they had their memory returned like Polaris and Quicksilver or if they even had their memory returned or not was simply bad tactics.

[XPac]

But, in the House of M we knew who the real life culprit was as did those with their memories back. They knew it was Wanda, the only question was if she was forced or not to change the world.

Planning an all out attack on Magneto and his family without collecting info to find out what was going on behind the scenes and what sides the different actors in the House of M would be on when they had their memory returned like Polaris and Quicksilver or if they even had their memory returned or not was simply bad tactics.

I'm not sure if they would have done much differently if they had tried to get more intell (not that I'm even sure getting more intell than what they already knew would have been possible).

Instead of Magneto being behind it, it was the person standing right next to magneto. I can't imagine that being a very radical shift in their planning. Either way they have to fight Quicksilver and Magneto.

[jmc247]

Instead of Magneto being behind it, it was the person standing right next to magneto. I can't imagine that being a very radical shift in their planning. Either way they have to fight Quicksilver and Magneto.

Its called divide and conquer. If lets say Lorna doesn't have her memories it would be good tactics to return her memories and see what side she would fall on, the same goes for all of the House of M. Not in the heat of battle of course, but before when they least suspect it.

[anthony!]

It's a perfectly okay story that could, and should have been told in shorter form. It simply should not take that many issues to accomplish so little. With 8 issues I would have hoped more would have been explored, and that the story would have been more complete on its own instead of just leading into ANOTHER event for us to purchase. In a sense, we are STILL reading House of M today...

But, that side, if you read it in a single sitting (as I did once) its a perfectly okay little story. Not great, okay.

[The Fury]

I think you mean the original Ms. Marvel's powers. Carol Danvers had slightly different powers than Captain Marvel, although she was born from him when she was exposed from Psyche Magnatron in Captain Marvel #18.

Rogue also rarely manifested Ms. Marvel's 7th sense powers & could not change from regular clothes to costume as Ms. Marvel did.

No, I mean Captain Marvel, Rogue absorbed them in House of M, Bendis apparently wanted her to keep them, giving her back some of her power she once had and give her back her spark.


Saying "no" for no good reason other than that they can? Sounds like the X-Office.

SEAN
Pretty much.

In their defense though, it was a reasonable conclusion. How many people aside from Magneto would wish for Magneto to be ruler of the world? It's a pretty short list. If I was in their shoes, I'd assume it was him as well.
Toad, Toad was on the island and Toad has mind controlling pheromones he emits via his tongue and fingers.

But yeah, short list.

[The Fury]

Double post, whot whot old chap.

[Joe Acro]

Its called divide and conquer. If lets say Lorna doesn't have her memories it would be good tactics to return her memories and see what side she would fall on, the same goes for all of the House of M. Not in the heat of battle of course, but before when they least suspect it.
Why would they have given Lorna her memories back? She didn't have powers. Thus, she wasn't an asset, even with her memories restored.

[XPac]

Why would they have given Lorna her memories back? She didn't have powers. Thus, she wasn't an asset, even with her memories restored.

Plus, Lorna is borderline nuts half the time (or at least she was for a while there around that time period). I'm not sure I'd trust her to be on their side even if she did restore her memories.

[jmc247]

Why would they have given Lorna her memories back? She didn't have powers. Thus, she wasn't an asset, even with her memories restored.

It could have been one less enemy to fight and potentally one more ally on their side. I wasn't just talking about Lorna I was talking about Magneto or any other member of the House of M who didn't have their memory. Sure, there is a chance any one of them might still have been against changing things back, but it would be more then worth the shot.

What the heroes ended up doing was supremely stupid. They ended up attacking at the worst possible time when Magneto's entire family was present and when Doctor Doom, Storm, and other leading mutants were present and security was at its highest for the celebration.

[XPac]

It could have been one less enemy to fight and potentally one more ally on their side. I wasn't just talking about Lorna I was talking about Magneto or any other member of the House of M who didn't have their memory. Sure, there is a chance any one of them might still have been against changing things back, but it would be more then worth the shot.

What the heroes ended up doing was supremely stupid. They ended up attacking at the worst possible time when Magneto's entire family was present and when Doctor Doom, Storm, and other leading mutants were present and security was at its highest for the celebration.

There's actually an efficiency to attacking large numbers of people.

They were able to covernt the entire SHIELD team chasing after Wolverine in one shot, effectively doubling their numbers. Though more dangerous, that was certainly more time effective than trying to sneak around and snag them one at a time.

[Will.S]

What the heroes ended up doing was supremely stupid. They ended up attacking at the worst possible time when Magneto's entire family was present and when Doctor Doom, Storm, and other leading mutants were present and security was at its highest for the celebration.
Attacking at a ceremony using a Sentinel still caught them off guard though. Sure it was a big gamble but it all lead up to Scarlet Witch turning things back to normal. They were also effective at disabling Genis and the rest by either restoring their memories or stalling them.

[jmc247]

They were able to covernt the entire SHIELD team chasing after Wolverine in one shot, effectively doubling their numbers.

That wasn't planned though.

[XPac]

That wasn't planned though.

They're not stupid. The only reason they brought her within a 100 miles of a combat situation was to covert people to their side if they needed to. And certainly if they WON the fight she would be there to convert them back.

[jmc247]

They're not stupid.

Sometimes I am not so sure.

[niall mc cann]

I have to say i'm with XPac. They had a short list of suspects and they were all behind the same wall. It was perfectly reasonable to assume the Mutant evangalist who they'd all fought a hundred times had created a mutant paradise (wouldn't have been the first time he tried). Even if they were wrong, they were gonna have to fight all the suspects as a unit anyway.

I don't see what was so wrong with their tactics.

[jmc247]

I don't see what was so wrong with their tactics.

They tried to attack Magneto and his family head on at a time when Doom, Storm, and other powerful mutants and others were present and security was at its greatest.

It would have been different if they planned a mass conversion of those present to their regular memories. But, they decided not to instead they had Millar off with the Emma looking for Professor X.

Had Magneto not found her and had his memory not been returned by her Wolverine and company would have been in deep s***.

[XPac]

They tried to attack Magneto and his family head on at a time when Doom, Storm, and other powerful mutants and others were present and security was at its greatest.

It would have been different if they planned a mass conversion of those present to their regular memories. But, they decided not to instead they had Millar off with the Emma looking for Professor X.

Had Magneto not found her and had his memory not been returned by her Wolverine and company would have been in deep s***.

They had to have the girl away from the actual battle because she is a little girl and has no place in a combat situation. If they had no intention of using her abilities (which makes no sense whatsoever) they could have left her elsewhere.

[jmc247]

They had to have the girl away from the actual battle because she is a little girl and has no place in a combat situation. If they had no intention of using her abilities (which makes no sense whatsoever) they could have left her elsewhere.

They didn't have to start things with violence. They could have started things by her bringing back everyones memories and then her being taken out of the area. In that situation the only one the X-Men and Avengers would have had to fight was the ones who were in on altering reality and the good guys would have had Storm and many others fighting on their side instead of against them.

[XPac]

They didn't have to start things with violence. They could have started things by her bringing back everyones memories and then her being taken out of the area. In that situation the only one the X-Men and Avengers would have had to fight was the ones who were in on altering reality and the good guys would have had Storm and many others fighting on their side instead of against them.

That's certainly one way to do it... the gamble there being that they would be able to stay there undetected long enough to get them all one by one. But they took a shot where they were all out in the open and in one place. I won't argue one strategy is better than the othere... merely that neither one is completely without merit (with the later being better storywise, thus making it the better option overall).

[shanejayell]

I hated House of M and I still hate it. The start was unbelievable with Xavier considering killing Wanda... and as that's the cornerstone of the story it just falls apart. Add in OOC heroes, a poorly written 'magnetoverse' and a ending so lame it was painful and you have a SUCKY story.

[Sean Whitmore]

I hated House of M and I still hate it. The start was unbelievable with Xavier considering killing Wanda... and as that's the cornerstone of the story it just falls apart. Add in OOC heroes, a poorly written 'magnetoverse' and a ending so lame it was painful and you have a SUCKY story.

To be fair, only Emma and Wolverine were really suggesting killing Wanda. Xavier was just too drained and worried to deliver one of his big, blah-blah "we're better than that" speeches.

Beyond that, who did you think was written OOC? And what about the Magnetoverse was poorly written?


SEAN

[jmc247]

I hated House of M and I still hate it. The start was unbelievable with Xavier considering killing Wanda... and as that's the cornerstone of the story it just falls apart.

Maybe, you read something I didn't because I don't recall Xavier considering killing Wanda. He brought the Avengers and X-Men together to decide what to do with her. Which is only natural considering she was an insane mutant that could threaten all life on Earth if not the entire Universe. He never came down on the side of killing her any more then Magneto did in fact both Magneto and Xavier both simply said they don't know what to do.

[Canemacar]

Have to throw in- it was also another exercise in Bendis playing favourites. You get the feeling this is his dream world: He doesn't have to use Cap, or Iron Man, or the Fantastic Four or any of those other stupid heroes- he gets to make Luke Cage a massive force, Spidey a key player, everything revolve around WOLVERINE. I suppose it's a miracle we didn't have more Jessica Jones and Jessica Drew.

Thats pretty much how I felt about it. It wasn't a world where everyone got what they wanted, it was a world where Bendis got what HE wanted.

[Black Atom]

The good: The idea is pretty superb, actually, even if the set-up (Disassembled) wasn't. I liked the idea of Wolverine suddenly remembering everything and being the catalyst for "waking" people up. Nice bit of irony there. I also liked seeing the mutants in charge. Also, I thought the art was pretty good throughout.

The bad: Well. There's a lot. For as long as this series was, there's criminally few compelling character moments. Sure, there's lots of cool Bendis-Banter and posturing, but some really great opportunities are missed, which makes the whole business seem really shallow, something I've come to expect from BMBs big event stories. For example, when planning the offensive, Black Cat (or someone) poses the question of if they're doing the right thing--maybe they should leave the world the way it is and Wolverine shuts her down by basically saying "You dumb whore. What a stupid question." Thing is, that's a
pretty compelling argument! But I guess there wasn't time to discuss it because we needed 4 or 5 panels of guys going "Magneto's gonna pay for this. I mean, Magneto is SO gonna pay. This is...I mean...God, Magneto is gonna pay!"

Second, Um, where's the Marvel Universe? I'm pretty sure the MU consists of more than some X-Men, the New Avengers and the Heroes for Hire, of all people. Some odd choices were made on who to spotlight in this crossover. I mean, the FF is nowhere in sight, but luckily we get to check in on, you know, Cloak.

Third, Bendis regurgitates his big event formula, making the story feel even more shallow. Team finds themselves in bizarre or uniwinnable situation (Savage Land, fighting the Void, fighting Wanda, fighting Wanda AGAIN), they stand around and talk (or cry) about it, launch a useless offesnive and are bailed out by a Deus Ex Machina (SHIELD, Sentry, Dr. Strange, Wanda herself). It makes there heroes look pretty impotent because they really aren't effecting the outcome of the story--they are pretty much just along
for the ride.

[Crimson]

Second, Um, where's the Marvel Universe? I'm pretty sure the MU consists of more than some X-Men, the New Avengers and the Heroes for Hire, of all people. Some odd choices were made on who to spotlight in this crossover. I mean, the FF is nowhere in sight, but luckily we get to check in on, you know, Cloak.


Did you check out the tie ins?

Human Torch worked in the monster truck-o-saurus things seen in Iron Man: House of M.

Thing was a big(ger) deformed monster in Fantastic Four: House of M.

We found out Reed and Sue died in the space mission that should of given them their powers (I forget why it killed them this time) in Fantastic Four: House of M.

I'd say that was part of the problem of HoM. You didn't get the sense this was a whole universe unless you read the minis. The minis weren't really worth the $, but it was the only way to give the whole story the feeling it needed.

[MAK15]

I think the one thing I liked most about the House of M were the costume variations.
...of course, thats also the reason why I picked up AOA, the exiles, most of the 'What If's?' so on and etcetera.
but of course, I actually never read the series, I was kinda broke at the time.

[XPac]

Second, Um, where's the Marvel Universe? I'm pretty sure the MU consists of more than some X-Men, the New Avengers and the Heroes for Hire, of all people. Some odd choices were made on who to spotlight in this crossover. I mean, the FF is nowhere in sight, but luckily we get to check in on, you know, Cloak.



I think Bendis had specific reasons behind who he picked though.

As we have seen in both Civil War and House of M, Cloak is a pretty handy guy when you're a part of a hunted underground resistance.

[Black Atom]

Did you check out the tie ins?


I did, but I really shouldn't have had to. There was more than enough space in the main book to deal with this. A moment where they are rallying forces and they realize most of the FF is dead could have been interesting.

Plus, the tie-ins didn't even follow the same story of the main book. Didn't Spider-Man become the Goblin at the end of his?


I think Bendis had specific reasons behind who he picked though.

As we have seen in both Civil War and House of M, Cloak is a pretty handy guy when you're a part of a hunted underground resistance.


I don't have anything against Cloak, per se. I was just trying to get across that Bendis' representation of the MU was lacking.

[niall mc cann]

I wouldn't be so down on the idea that a writer, when constructing a story, gets to choose whatever characters he's most interested in.

I mean, the FF, the hulk, spidey... these guys get the headlines all the time. There's definitely an element of "Cloak and Luke Cage save the universe" that really appeals to me.

[Lord S]

House of M is a poorly thought story given Bendis lacks a comprehensive understanding of the Scarlet Witch's powers: Wanda Maximoff alters probability, but not reality itself. In other words, the Scarlet Witch can use her hex spheres to make a healthy tree fall down or even catch fire, but she cannot transform the tree into a lambrogini.

House of M suffers from horrible pacing which leads back to the idea itself being the root of the problem; decompression & Bendis plot devices--Doctor Strange, Scarlet Witch, & Layla Miller--just add insult to injury.

House of M is a perfect example how not to do a crossover. At best, House of M is a 48 page story decompressed into a 8 issues.

House of M is a lemon when trying to make lemonade from the disaster gives the reader a load of crap in a bottle. At best, House of M is fertilizer. QTF, as usual.

Though I must admit that reading it, while it was going on, was kind of fun...until the end, of course. I was hoping for a non-mutie to be the real hand behind the House of Magnus, (maybe Mephisto), but it turned out to be a mutie-fest afterall.

Definitely agree on the pacing...should have been done in three parts, and Layla Miller was a forgettable character. Don't know what she's doing now, and don't care. She's as dull and uninteresting to me as that little girl in 'Infinity Abyss'.

The only bright spots were the Fantastic Four, Black Panther, and New Thunderbolts tie-ins.

[Black Atom]

I wouldn't be so down on the idea that a writer, when constructing a story, gets to choose whatever characters he's most interested in.

I mean, the FF, the hulk, spidey... these guys get the headlines all the time. There's definitely an element of "Cloak and Luke Cage save the universe" that really appeals to me.

Maybe. But when I write my huge crossover event starring Stingray, Huntara and Triathlon, I shouldn't be all that surprised when people feel duped. You don't go to an all-star game to see minor leaguers play.

[Archer]

At the time I read it and enjoyed it, but I feel the lasting effect on the Marvel Universe in general and X books in particular was zero.

The core X-books have gone on exactly as normal, just with a panel here and there showing how the characters walk past the Sentinels yet again. That mini-series about the reporter did an okay job at looking at the decimation, but it was all about individuals, I got no sense of the mutant "culture" being affected, other than District X being cancelled.

X Factor's done most with the idea and it's been very minimal . . . yes Richtor is depowered but before House of M people got depowered on a fairly regular basis, that kind of trauma is nothing new.

Xavier got depowered and walks again . . . but his power has had big fluctuations in the past, he's walked in the past, and he's still running around leading a team of X-Men . . . so I don't feel a lot there.

There was great mileage to get more insights on Magneto. I'd have loved to see him given the "perfect life" with all his children alive, his wife alive, mutants not living in fear, and *still* managed to totally screw things up, just to see how he'd react to knowing maybe he was at fault for some of the way his life turned out - but nooooo. I'd have loved to have seen him trying to make an existence in the normal world as a normal human, but no, we just saw him wandering around the ruins of Genosha until a big shiney thing repowered him for not much reason.

I didn't read the Wolverine House of M issues, and honestly, from the way he acts in the X-books I wouldn't even know he still had his memories back. He seems exactly the same.

For general impact on the world of the mutant characters in a situation where their numbers get thinned out, individual character growth and development, and pure and simple telling a good coherant story, Mutant Massacre won on every single level.

Honestly, you could take almost any pre House of M book, and almost any post House of M book, and the only way you could tell which was which is no scenes in Mutant Town, and the obligatory "Silly Sentinels, watch us walk right past" scene.

Big kudos to X Factor for at least acknowleding it happened, but when it's an X Factor issue and only an X Factor issue, something's badly wrong.

[Omega Alpha]

Definitely agree on the pacing...should have been done in three parts, and Layla Miller was a forgettable character. Don't know what she's doing now, and don't care. She's as dull and uninteresting to me as that little girl in 'Infinity Abyss'.


When you read one issue of X-factor you will deeply regret of your words...

[Keith_Martineau]

I think a lot of this is all about reader expectation.

People expect the story to go one way.
They expect Mephisto to be behind it, or Pandemonium or something.
They expect wall to wall action in every issue.
They expect to hate something Bendis has written, even before reading it.

What they don't expect, is a story about EMOTION. About the consequences of how a man handled his children. And how devastating that can be against the setting of the Marvel Universe.
That is what Marvel gave. A slower, emotional story. I've read it a few times, and I can't see how it could have been any shorter.

And thats what you jaded folks don't get. Comic books aren't JUST about the events. They're also about the emotion. And for me, this story provided PLENTY of emotion. I hate it when people say "this was a 3 issue story padded into 8 issues" because if you do that, you cut out the emotion. Sure, you could do that, cut out everything but the action and events---but it wouldn't be the same. You would cut out the heart of the story.
And, while we're at it, who the F made you guys editor? Who are you to say how long a story should be, or how many issues?

I still stand by House of M. It was a great, emotional story.

[Magneto Rocks]

I mean, the FF, the hulk, spidey... these guys get the headlines all the time. There's definitely an element of "Cloak and Luke Cage save the universe" that really appeals to me.

Whereas Wolverine has never been a main character before.

[brundlefly]

About the consequences of how a man handled his children. And how devastating that can be against the setting of the Marvel Universe.
That is what Marvel gave. A slower, emotional story. I've read it a few times, and I can't see how it could have been any shorter.


Except that Mags didn't know they were his children until after they were already fully grown. Hence Bendis' Wanda-voiced rant of "we're messed up becaused of how you raised us, Dad!" has no merit whatsoever. And House of M spent far more time on Logan, Emma, et al than Magneto, Wanda, and Pietro and their relationship anyway. Cut that filler out, spend more time on the actual House of Magnus, and then you would indeed have a shorter story. But the heart of the whole thing (did Magneto do a poor job raising Wanda and Pietro?) is still pointless because he did not raise them or know that they were his children.


And, while we're at it, who the F made you guys editor?

Oh I wish I had been Bendis' editor on this or other multi-character stories. I'd make him finally do his homework on Marvel characters and history before he starts writing, a task that Joey Q seems unwilling to do.

[XPac]

I wouldn't be so down on the idea that a writer, when constructing a story, gets to choose whatever characters he's most interested in.

I mean, the FF, the hulk, spidey... these guys get the headlines all the time. There's definitely an element of "Cloak and Luke Cage save the universe" that really appeals to me.

I agree.

We all have a few C list heroes that we like, and that we wish played a bigger part of the MU. If I were doing a major comic event, and I could throw in a logical way to give Moon Knight some spotlight I'd do it in a heartbeat. Cause I like him.

And if that means that the Fantastic Four, who have saved the Universe fifty million times in the last few years, in this particular event play a smaller role I could life with that. I'd rationalize 90% of the other writers when doing major events would use the FF, but I'd be one of the few to use Moon Knight. So I'd use him, again presuming I could fit him in logically. People like Moon Knight, Cage, or Cloak aren't getting major motion pictures made about them like the Fantastic For or the Hulk or the X-Men... so a little bit of love thrown their way won't bring about the end of the world.

Bendis didn't do anything I'll wager MOST of us wouldn't have done in his place if we were in his position.

[XPac]

Whereas Wolverine has never been a main character before.

There were obvious plans for Wolverine that were in the works. So yes, he did have a fairly significant role. I don't think having Logan standing in the background doing nothing, then walking up at the end with all his memories back would have been the way to go.

[Psyco panda]

It just wasn't very good. Bendis continually took the easy way out the entire series. He created a world that people could argue was better or just as bad as the real one, so why change it? Just cause.

How do we get all the heroes back together to fight Magneto? Lets introduce a character who luckily has the power to make everyone remember just by looking at them. Layla Miller required to much suspension of disbelief, even for a comic. I love Layla because of what Peter Davids doing with her in X-factor, but Xfactor layla and HOM layla are almost two different characters.

How do we get Layla to all the heroes? Well lets throw in Cloak, give him almost no lines and let him do it.

Bendis just wrote lazily.

The series also lacked a certain epic feeling. The entire thing seemed more like a mild inconvenience then a desperate battle against a superior force that controls the world. The heroes met up, went to Genosha, world changes. Wolverine remembers runs around for a bit, meets Layla miller, and effortlessly assembles all the heroes, who effortlessly capture the Helicarrier and go to Genosha to meet Magneto. Wanda goes nuts again, says no more mutants. The end.

Even though Magneto and the House of M ruled the world, the heroes never met an opponent who who even mildly challenged them until they met Magneto. The heroes had already gone to genosha, and in the end the only effect was to delay them a couple of days. There was never a feeling of danger, or any tension at all in the story.

Plus? What was up with those hooded guys in HoM 1? Did we ever find out who they were supposed to be?

[niall mc cann]

I think a lot of this is all about reader expectation.

People expect the story to go one way.
They expect Mephisto to be behind it, or Pandemonium or something.
They expect wall to wall action in every issue.
They expect to hate something Bendis has written, even before reading it.

What they don't expect, is a story about EMOTION. About the consequences of how a man handled his children. And how devastating that can be against the setting of the Marvel Universe.
That is what Marvel gave. A slower, emotional story. I've read it a few times, and I can't see how it could have been any shorter.

And thats what you jaded folks don't get. Comic books aren't JUST about the events. They're also about the emotion. And for me, this story provided PLENTY of emotion. I hate it when people say "this was a 3 issue story padded into 8 issues" because if you do that, you cut out the emotion. Sure, you could do that, cut out everything but the action and events---but it wouldn't be the same. You would cut out the heart of the story.
And, while we're at it, who the F made you guys editor? Who are you to say how long a story should be, or how many issues?

I still stand by House of M. It was a great, emotional story.

With due respect, the emotional core of the story was the House of M. They got only a tiny fraction of the screen time that the other heroes got.

And among those other heroes, i get it hard to recall a single moment of character intereraction that really stayed with me that i felt was seeing to the heart of a character, or that i felt would go on to effect the character in the long term at all.

Maybe you could enlighten me as to where and when some of these moments of great emotion occurred, precisely?

[niall mc cann]

double post!

Sorry!

[jmc247]

And House of M spent far more time on Logan, Emma, et al than Magneto, Wanda, and Pietro and their relationship anyway. Cut that filler out, spend more time on the actual House of Magnus, and then you would indeed have a shorter story. But the heart of the whole thing (did Magneto do a poor job raising Wanda and Pietro?) is still pointless because he did not raise them or know that they were his children


That was my main problem with the House of M. If you combined the lines of Magneto, Polaris, Wanda, and Pietro you wouldn't get half the lines that Wolverine managed to get.

And, Magneto still hasn't had a real conversation with Wanda or Polaris since the 1990s. The insane ramblings of Wanda at the end blaming Magneto for all her problems wasn't a conversation.

[XPac]

Maybe you could enlighten me as to where and when some of these moments of great emotion occurred, precisely?

Specifically for me I though Spideys reaction to the whole thing was kinda cool. The fact that his secret heart's desire was not MJ, the fact that he was fighting for a world where he didn't have Uncle Ben, Gwen, or a a child... I found his conflict nicely done.

I also thought the part about Caps story interesting, though that was only glossed over in the main story.

But I suppose what's emotional reading for one person differs from another.

[Black Atom]

I think a lot of this is all about reader expectation.

People expect the story to go one way.
They expect Mephisto to be behind it, or Pandemonium or something.
They expect wall to wall action in every issue.
They expect to hate something Bendis has written, even before reading it.

What they don't expect, is a story about EMOTION. About the consequences of how a man handled his children. And how devastating that can be against the setting of the Marvel Universe.
That is what Marvel gave. A slower, emotional story. I've read it a few times, and I can't see how it could have been any shorter.

And thats what you jaded folks don't get. Comic books aren't JUST about the events. They're also about the emotion. And for me, this story provided PLENTY of emotion. I hate it when people say "this was a 3 issue story padded into 8 issues" because if you do that, you cut out the emotion. Sure, you could do that, cut out everything but the action and events---but it wouldn't be the same. You would cut out the heart of the story.
And, while we're at it, who the F made you guys editor? Who are you to say how long a story should be, or how many issues?

I still stand by House of M. It was a great, emotional story.

Someone always makes this argument and it always sounds, to me, like claptrap.

"House of M is about the mistakes a father makes and the consequences etc. etc." What the heck does that even MEAN? Translate that into actual, meaningful character moments instead of regurgitating meaningless, intangible themes like a 7th grade book report on The Catcher in the Rye. How many moments are there that give us actual insight into who these people are? That's something easy to quantify. Considering how many issues there were to tell the story, there's criminally few singular character moments. The whole thing just comes off really shallow.

[Black Atom]

Specifically for me I though Spideys reaction to the whole thing was kinda cool. The fact that his secret heart's desire was not MJ, the fact that he was fighting for a world where he didn't have Uncle Ben, Gwen, or a a child... I found his conflict nicely done.

I also thought the part about Caps story interesting, though that was only glossed over in the main story.

But I suppose what's emotional reading for one person differs from another.

To be fair, little of this was actually explored in the mini that Bendis wrote. I think Cap's situation was covered in one panel.

[Sean Whitmore]

To be fair, little of this was actually explored in the mini that Bendis wrote. I think Cap's situation was covered in one panel.

But to continue to be fair, that's the whole point of tying in to other series. So they can explore facets of the story while letting the main mini get on with the task of playing it out.

A complaint I see often is that one shoudn't have to buy a tie-in to get the whole story, and there are occasions where that's valid (such as the DC/Omac/Wonder Woman debacle). But in a case like this, if someone is interested in seeing the story of old Captain America in the HOM world, I don't think it's unreasonable to say, "Find out in this months's Captain America tie-in."

It shouldn't be a burden. If someone is that averse to buying a Captain America comic, how interested could they have possibly been in his fate in the first place?


SEAN

[Black Atom]

But to continue to be fair, that's the whole point of tying in to other series. So they can explore facets of the story while letting the main mini get on with the task of playing it out.

A complaint I see often is that one shoudn't have to buy a tie-in to get the whole story, and there are occasions where that's valid (such as the DC/Omac/Wonder Woman debacle). But in a case like this, if someone is interested in seeing the story of old Captain America in the HOM world, I don't think it's unreasonable to say, "Find out in this months's Captain America tie-in."

It shouldn't be a burden. If someone is that averse to buying a Captain America comic, how interested could they have possibly been in his fate in the first place?


SEAN

But it tracks back to the original complaint about House of M's pacing. To use Infinite Crisis as a comparison, the main mini series was, for good or ill, filled to the brim with events. It's obvious that the tie-ins were there to prep you so you could hit the ground running once the main event started.

Ideally, the tie-ins would have worked the same way, setting up the new lives of the characters so the main series could run with it. But there's such little/no pay off in the main book (to say nothing of the fact that the tie-ins apparently take place in their own little What If realities) that it emphasizes how poorly the thing was paced. The story is pretty linear--there aren't even any subplots. There was ample time to deliver on character moments and little was used.

[Sean Whitmore]

But it tracks back to the original complaint about House of M's pacing. To use Infinite Crisis as a comparison, the main mini series was, for good or ill, filled to the brim with events. It's obvious that the tie-ins were there to prep you so you could hit the ground running once the main event started.

Ideally, the tie-ins would have worked the same way, setting up the new lives of the characters so the main series could run with it. But there's such little/no pay off in the main book (to say nothing of the fact that the tie-ins apparently take place in their own little What If realities) that it emphasizes how poorly the thing was paced. The story is pretty linear--there aren't even any subplots. There was ample time to deliver on character moments and little was used.

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly about the pacing. I'm just saying that even if Bendis had eliminated, say, 3 of the subplots that are currently in HOM, I still wouldn't want to see any time devoted to Captain America. His life, ultimately, had nothing to do with the storyline of "Let's change the world back." But it was incredibly interesting, which is why I bought and enjoyed the Brubaker tie-in. :)


SEAN

[Erik Lehnsherr]

There was great mileage to get more insights on Magneto. I'd have loved to see him given the "perfect life" with all his children alive, his wife alive, mutants not living in fear, and *still* managed to totally screw things up, just to see how he'd react to knowing maybe he was at fault for some of the way his life turned out - but nooooo. I'd have loved to have seen him trying to make an existence in the normal world as a normal human, but no, we just saw him wandering around the ruins of Genosha until a big shiney thing repowered him for not much reason.


That was the thing. Even though he was given the world, it wasn't really what Magneto wanted. Everyone knows that nothing means more to Magneto than the survival of mutants, his original daughter, and his wife. There is NO WAY he would of had a world exist without Anya Lehnsherr not standing by his side. It was more about giving Quicksilver and Wanda their heart desires than Magneto's and that's why he was basically the biggest victim of the whole storyline.

[Erik Lehnsherr]

In their defense though, it was a reasonable conclusion. How many people aside from Magneto would wish for Magneto to be ruler of the world? It's a pretty short list. If I was in their shoes, I'd assume it was him as well.

I don't know about that statement. In alternate realities..in the 616 reality...Magneto has been worshipped and has had some VERY interesting LOYAL followers who have even went as far as to pronounce him as a messiah to the mutant race. Technically, the list of suspects could of been far reaching but in the context of the story of how the heroes were going to Genosha to decide "Wanda's fate", I guess the children were most fitting.

[Lord S]

And how devastating that can be against the setting of the Marvel Universe. Then how about a story, first, on how Wanda's reality altering powers became on par with that of a Celestial?

I hate it when people say "this was a 3 issue story padded into 8 issues" because if you do that, you cut out the emotion. Sure, you could do that, cut out everything but the action and events---but it wouldn't be the same. You would cut out the heart of the story. Clear and sheer nonsense. There's plenty of emotion to be found in complex, yet non-decompressed, stories of yesteryear...if you bother to look.

And, while we're at it, who the F made you guys editor? Who are you to say how long a story should be, or how many issues? Fans are the ultimate editors. We decide what's good...not writers, not editors.

I still stand by House of M. It was a great, emotional story. And I'll stand by my belief that it was mediocre.

[Black Atom]

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly about the pacing. I'm just saying that even if Bendis had eliminated, say, 3 of the subplots that are currently in HOM, I still wouldn't want to see any time devoted to Captain America. His life, ultimately, had nothing to do with the storyline of "Let's change the world back." But it was incredibly interesting, which is why I bought and enjoyed the Brubaker tie-in. :)


SEAN

Seeing Old Cap dropkick Doom would've and ricocheting his bedpan off stuff would've been nice. But noooo...


That was the thing. Even though he was given the world, it wasn't really what Magneto wanted. Everyone knows that nothing means more to Magneto than the survival of mutants, his original daughter, and his wife. There is NO WAY he would of had a world exist without Anya Lehnsherr not standing by his side. It was more about giving Quicksilver and Wanda their heart desires than Magneto's and that's why he was basically the biggest victim of the whole storyline.


What was neat is that lots of characters kinda got twisted versions of their heart's desires. It would've been cool to have explored that as well.

[Archer]

It was more about giving Quicksilver and Wanda their heart desires than Magneto's and that's why he was basically the biggest victim of the whole storyline.

And it would have been great if that had been explored. But it wasn't.

I recently read AoA for the first time and while it had a lot of weaknesses, I loved how it showed Magneto's character, and that while he would do just about ANYTHING to protect his family he was still willing to sacrifice his wife and child to put the world right . . . that would have been an interesting dilema for HoM Magneto to face as well, but he didn't.

He went straight from freaking out with Quicksilver over having no idea how to fix things (brilliant situation to put such a powerful character in), to freaking out at Quicksilver and even killing him . . . gave no sense of emotional development whatsoever.

Now, yeah, reader expectations certainly play into things, but with it being called *House of M* and with the buildup to Wanda waking up from her coma being Magneto trying to hold it together and going more nuts in the process, my expectation was that it would deal with some M family issues within the wider context of what to do when mutants go nuts . . . but it didn't.

The most emotional point for me in the series was Spider-Man trying to deal with Gwen and Ben being alive - but even that was pretty much completely discredited by the fact that it bore no resemblance at all to the Spider-Man: House of M mini, and the only references I remember to it in other comics were in Son of M, of all places.

I get that editorial reasons might prevent a huge emotionally impacting event on a character from getting page time in other series . . . but what I *don't* get is why a writer would think, "Hey, this will probably never get mentioned in Spidey's own book, but I'll put him through trauma anyway".

Oh and while we're at it . . .

I remember at the time the huge mystery over where Xavier was, especially when he had an empty grave. What was that all about? When the dust settled he was drinking in Wales, powerless - but what was he meant to be doing in the House of M reality? What was the point of the whole empty grave thing?