Who would be the best leader for the New Avengers?

[MAK15]

right now it looks like Cage will lead the team.
people want others to lead, however.
Ill let yall take it from there.

[Haunt]

Nick Fury would be a better leader for the New Avengers.

[XPac]

Based on what we know as of now... the best choice might be a sort of co-leadership situation with Strange and Logan.

Strange could sort of direct things in a broader sense as he did with the Defenders, but he'd leave the actual field lcombat eader stuff to Logan (like he sometimes did with Nighthawk).

There's no obvious standout leader in the bunch. For the most part none of them would be terrible choices, but none of them would be great ones either. Bendis could literally pull a name out of a hat if he wanted to.

I will say though that in the Collective story arc, Cage showed a certain almost Captain America-ish quality when they went to that neighborhood as a team. Cage comes off as a man of the people. That might actually be a very helpfull quality as far as choosing someone to be the figurehead of this team.

[mattbib]

Note: I want this thread to stick to actual New Avengers members, or at least reasonable guesses as to Ronin's identity. Anything else belongs in the "dream roster" thread.

[Gene M.]

Cage as leader of the NA is the hook that's making me want to start reading this book. He's a great character that's always been just outside of the spotlight over the past few years. Making him the top dog in Marvel's biggest book could finally push him from "yellow blouse and chain belt B-lister" to one of Marvel's biggest charcters.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Cage as leader of the NA is the hook that's making me want to start reading this book. He's a great character that's always been just outside of the spotlight over the past few years. Making him the top dog in Marvel's biggest book could finally push him from "yellow blouse and chain belt B-lister" to one of Marvel's biggest charcters.

This has had the exact opposite effect on me. I'm not a huge Bendis fan (although I actualy enjoyed secret war quite a bit and I am a HUGE fan of Alias), but seeing how Bendis has radicaly transformed the character into his own personal Mary-Sue put me off of new avengers for a while. I was planning on picking up the title post-CW due to all the hype, but now that I know it's basicly Bendis' Mary-Sue version of the Avengers... well, it's very off-putting.

As for who would be better leading the team, I'd go for Cap/Ronin, Clint/Ronin, Pym/Ronin or the Wolverine-Strange duo above. Noone else seems to be of leadership caliber. ESPECIALY not cage. this is not to dis the character (anymore then I already have) but even when he was'nt Bendisafied he was'nt of Avengers leader quality. Heck SPIDERMAN could'nt lead the avengers in my mind, how can I imagine cage doing any better?

[StoneGold]

This has had the exact opposite effect on me. I'm not a huge Bendis fan (although I actualy enjoyed secret war quite a bit and I am a HUGE fan of Alias), but seeing how Bendis has radicaly transformed the character into his own personal Mary-Sue put me off of new avengers for a while. I was planning on picking up the title post-CW due to all the hype, but now that I know it's basicly Bendis' Mary-Sue version of the Avengers... we'll it's very off-putting.

As for who would be better leading the team, I'd go for Cap/Ronin, Clint/Ronin, Pym/Ronin or the Wolverine-Strange duo above. Noone else seems to be of leadership caliber. ESPECIALY not cage. this is not to dis the character (anymore then I already have) but even when he was'nt Bendisafied he was'nt of Avengers leader quality. Heck SPIDERMAN could'nt lead the avengers in my mind, how can I imagine cage doing any better?

Yeah, but he's been "Bendisified" for how many years now? Let's put it this way, more time than it took for Captain Marvel to be made team leader.

[Karl H]

I like this direction... It's the logical progression that's been made by Bendis since Alias and his Daredevil run.

As already noted, Luke has previously run H4H, was the leader of the resistance of HofM and came of as Ambassadorial and a man of the people during the Collective arc.

Luke has his own distinct vision of what the Avengers should be. The whole point of the New Avengers is that they "ain't yo Daddy's Avengers" well, they aren't Iron Man or Cap's Avengers either...

Give it time... I think this will work.

[Karl O'Neill]

luke cage maybe, he's a badass! they need someone fearless and tough

[rwsmith]

Based on what we know as of now... the best choice might be a sort of co-leadership situation with Strange and Logan.

Strange could sort of direct things in a broader sense as he did with the Defenders, but he'd leave the actual field lcombat eader stuff to Logan (like he sometimes did with Nighthawk).

Perfect idea. I endorse it 100%.

Having said that, Cage as leader doesn't bother me. I look forward to seeing him grow into the role. And, to be perfectly honest, I kind of wanted him to take the mantle of Captain America if Steve does end up biting it at the end of Civil War. Seems like that won't happen, though. If anyone takes over as Cap it will be the Winter Soldier.

I just hope that Cage will utilize Logan's vast combat experience and military/black ops training and defer to him in certain situations.

[Omega Alpha]

Based on what we know as of now... the best choice might be a sort of co-leadership situation with Strange and Logan.

Strange could sort of direct things in a broader sense as he did with the Defenders, but he'd leave the actual field lcombat eader stuff to Logan (like he sometimes did with Nighthawk).


That's what i think is the best idea too. Wolverine is not the broader view or thinking-about-the-future type, but if there's someone to take over this role, and this Avengers are the black-ops type, he is more qualified than anyone else on this team. Unless Ronin is someone like Fury or Cap. himself, of course. And Logan is not going berserk every issue, like it happens under some writers.

[Captain Exaggeration]

Assuming Cling Barton or Cap are going to be Ronon I think he would make the best decision. Otherwise Doctor Strange makes the most sense.

[Red Lotus]

This just shows you what a lack of quality and capable leaders that this team has. Cage is the best choices on the team, but is that really saying much. I still got my fingers crossed that Ronin is Clint or Cap. And that Ronin will take over as leader after a few issues.

[Captain Exaggeration]

This just shows you what a lack of quality and capable leaders that this team has. Cage is the best choices on the team, but is that really saying much. I still got my fingers crossed that Ronin is Clint or Cap. And that Ronin will taker over as leader after a few issues.
If Clint is Ronin lets hope he leaves the mask off... I think it would look cooler that way.

[Post-It]

Ideally it would be Fury, but of the current members Luke makes the best overall leader. While Strange is the most powerful he doesnt seem to grasp or care about the issue NA will be facing, he is just there to help out of regret and I doubt it will be permanent. While Logan has more experience fighting, he is at his best when given a task. Im still hoping Ronin is Cap or Fury.
As for Clint, I think he is the quintesential number 2. Someone who will make sure that the number 1 stays the course but not lead. I know he did it on Thunderbolts but even then i didnt like it. He is to the Avengers what Logan is to the Xmen. While they could lead, they would rather worry about their next opponent and not planning the next team training schedule.

[gorthon616]

Yeah, but he's been "Bendisified" for how many years now? Let's put it this way, more time than it took for Captain Marvel to be made team leader.

But honestly nowhere in that does it really make him seem like the leader type. No offense, but he's just been Bendis's boy for a long time. Which is not to say, he doesn't have his moments (both good and bad), but this just seems more in line with that.

But honestly looking at the line up? So far he's the best choice.

[Captain Exaggeration]

But honestly nowhere in that does it really make him seem like the leader type. No offense, but he's just been Bendis's boy for a long time. Which is not to say, he doesn't have his moments (both good and bad), but this just seems more in line with that.

But honestly looking at the line up? So far he's the best choice.
Really? If not Strange I think Iron Fist would make a better choice. He seems more tactical if you ask me.

[EnDwiGast]

I like the idea of Cage as leader.

It makes no snese however, if Steve Rogers is on the roster. As for Nick Fury, i think he works best as is - appearing from out of the shadows when you least expect it and being the puppetmaster behind the scenes. Doctor Strange is a leader, but not a field leader.

I have to admit there is a heavy mary Sue element to this team. You could have put this roster together for the most part in the late 70s/early 80s.

But as for the changes with Cage, i have to disagree with some. To me, part of Cage for a long time had been a lack of direction. Thats not a bad thing - as it was a good format to tell a lot of stories, but his membership in the Avengers, getting married and having a child, and the effects of civil War have combined to give him that direction. Its something I think a lot of us can identify with.

So to me, his leadership is a natural progression. I always felt that Monica Rambeau's leadership of the Avengers felt a little rushed and forced. Not that it wouldn't have made sense somewhere down the road. But she came across to me as a Mary Sue, so did the transformation of Wasp into a "natural leader". vision's leadership role was sudden too - but that was explainable by him being mind-controlled, and Black Widows leadership era truly felt forced and came out of nowhere.

[gorthon616]

Really? If not Strange I think Iron Fist would make a better choice. He seems more tactical if you ask me.

Strange - I just have issues with him being grounded enough to lead like a permanent functional team. He's too big to get bogged to that (i.e. I don't like him on the title). If this was like a Defenders-style, "we need to amass heroes to fulfill the task," then yeah. But not really a straight-up team book.

Iron First - He's too ninja fighty guy. Tactical yes. But ninja types (unless in like a ninja clan or something) never really strikes me as the leader type. Cage at least has that not-taking-any-%$&(*-from-you attitude. I just don't see that as do as I say and don't give me your #*(&$.

[Joe Acro]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was a time in which the Black Widow chaired the team, but Black Knight was practically field commander. I imagine something similar occurring here. Cage plays the part of Black Knight and Strange plays the part of Widow.

Given the circumstances, I would say that that scenario is as good as the team can possibly be handled, assuming there isn't a great tactician under the Ronin armor.

[XPac]

But honestly nowhere in that does it really make him seem like the leader type. No offense, but he's just been Bendis's boy for a long time. Which is not to say, he doesn't have his moments (both good and bad), but this just seems more in line with that.

But honestly looking at the line up? So far he's the best choice.

To a degree, you can say that for Wasp and Monica/Captain Marvel before they became chairpersons. To a degree, I think a lot of Avenger writers have opted to place a character they really like into a position of leadership. I'm not sure Black Knight was ever officially a chairperson, but somewhere along the line some decided he was a good field leader too.

I think in general, Avengers are the top heroes in their profession. That probably means most of them are competent and experienced enough to take the lead in battle if necessary. That fact is just overshadowed by the fact that Cap is often around, and as a field leader he's just on another level.

[Captain Exaggeration]

Strange - I just have issues with him being grounded enough to lead like a permanent functional team. He's too big to get bogged to that (i.e. I don't like him on the title). If this was like a Defenders-style, "we need to amass heroes to fulfill the task," then yeah. But not really a straight-up team book.

Iron First - He's too ninja fighty guy. Tactical yes. But ninja types (unless in like a ninja clan or something) never really strikes me as the leader type. Cage at least has that not-taking-any-%$&(*-from-you attitude. I just don't see that as do as I say and don't give me your #*(&$.
If you ask me I really don't even think Luke has used tactics in his entire life... at least not ones he himself came up with. He just kind of runs into things and punches them.

[gorthon616]

If you ask me I really don't even think Luke has used tactics in his entire life... at least not ones he himself came up with. He just kind of runs into things and punches them.

:D That's what I meant.

I was referring to Danny as being tactical not Cage. Cage isn't tactically sound really, but he strikes me as a character with the sort of internal fortitude that a leader would have. I just don't see him leading, nor really how he would get to that point.

[Will.S]

If you ask me I really don't even think Luke has used tactics in his entire life... at least not ones he himself came up with. He just kind of runs into things and punches them.


Seriously! :D

http://img441.imageshack.us/img441/3540/lcttm7.th.jpg (http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lcttm7.jpg)

http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/636/lct2fw0.th.jpg (http://img251.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lct2fw0.jpg)

[Haunt]

what, is that your homemade comic? and what exactly is he supposed to be doing in this pic?

[Will.S]

what, is that your homemade comic?
If only:

http://www.hillcity-comics.com/comics/02_08_06_06.jpg



and what exactly is he supposed to be doing in this pic?
Making a cheeseburger.

[Crimson]

So who does everyone think will lead this team?

[Jmacq1]

So who does everyone think will lead this team?

Read back a few pages. It's already been stated that Luke Cage will be the leader of this team.

Which makes sense given Bendis has been building him up for it in the last year or so.

[Joe Acro]

and what exactly is he supposed to be doing in this pic?I can't really tell, either.

[Will.S]

I can't really tell, either.
Luke uses Cap's the shield to create a sonic attack on Dragon Man. He gets knocked out by it in the next panel.

[Jmacq1]

Bear in mind that "leader" doesn't always mean "chief tactician."

Luke may be the "leader" in the sense that he's the guy that holds the team together and gives it direction/purpose, but when it comes to the battlefield I somehow envision this team operating on something of a "fly by the seat of their pants" mentality. Or more accurately "Whatever works, do it!" If they need to get into nitty-gritty planning, Spider-Woman and Wolverine really have it covered as far as "black ops" goes. There's more than enough expertise all-around to make for an interesting and competent team. It just might not work the same way we envision a lot of "teams" as working.

Heck, since the beginning of New Avengers it's been more of a "team effort" than one person giving all the orders.

[Haunt]

Luke uses Cap's the shield to create a sonic attack on Dragon Man. He gets knocked out by it in the next panel.

since when does Cap's shield do that? i could see the shield absorbing Luke's hit (and it has been hit much harder) but creating a sonic wave strong enough to effect Dragon Man? meh.

[XPac]

Bear in mind that "leader" doesn't always mean "chief tactician."

Luke may be the "leader" in the sense that he's the guy that holds the team together and gives it direction/purpose, but when it comes to the battlefield I somehow envision this team operating on something of a "fly by the seat of their pants" mentality. Or more accurately "Whatever works, do it!" If they need to get into nitty-gritty planning, Spider-Woman and Wolverine really have it covered as far as "black ops" goes. There's more than enough expertise all-around to make for an interesting and competent team. It just might not work the same way we envision a lot of "teams" as working.

Heck, since the beginning of New Avengers it's been more of a "team effort" than one person giving all the orders.

Yeah, that's a good point. Cage could be a leader the same way Superman is kind of the leader of the Justice League, even though Batman is obviously the teams chief tactician.

[Joe Acro]

Luke uses Cap's the shield to create a sonic attack on Dragon Man. He gets knocked out by it in the next panel.
Yes, but how? Does he punch it? That doesn't seem to make sense, but that's what it looks like.

[Will.S]

Yes, but how? Does he punch it? That doesn't seem to make sense, but that's what it looks like.
He smacks it, it's sort of like when you pick up a metal trash can and smack it to make noise.

Considering that vibranium absorbs sound this does look kind of strange but the shield does have other metal properties and I was just showing Luke using some tactical skill. The book itself was tongue and cheeky anyway but fun.

[XPac]

Yes, but how? Does he punch it? That doesn't seem to make sense, but that's what it looks like.

In a lot of ways, I think it honestly would have made more sense if he had just slapped his own hands together (Hulk Thunderclap style). I guess the writer wasn't aware Caps shield was partially made from vibranium. No big for this book though. We're not suppossed to take it too seriously.

[rpriske]

Cage as leader makes sense since he is the strongest (I don't mean physically) on the team. Strange is too allof to be a good leader and none of the others are even close.

If Ronin turns out to be Cap (as I think), he may refuse to be leader in order to maintainthe facade, but he would still be a tactical leader.

I am all for this since Luke and Jessica are the best written characters that Bendis does. Cage used to be boring. Not anymore!

[XPac]

Cage as leader makes sense since he is the strongest (I don't mean physically) on the team. Strange is too allof to be a good leader and none of the others are even close.

If Ronin turns out to be Cap (as I think), he may refuse to be leader in order to maintainthe facade, but he would still be a tactical leader.

I am all for this since Luke and Jessica are the best written characters that Bendis does. Cage used to be boring. Not anymore!

In all fairness, Iron Fist has been a team leader before. And Wolverine is strong enough to be one when he wants to be. Though I am fine with Luke stepping up.

[Jmacq1]

Wolverine can lead, but generally has to be forced to do it. He hates being the leader, and if there's anyone else around that can do a passable job of it, he'll gladly let them handle that side of things.

I strongly suspect Iron Fist will be Luke's "2IC" in most cases, with Strange having a very strong "advisory" role depending on how consistent his involvement with the team is.

[32Cage]

Those who argue Cage does not have leadership qualities to lead this team in my opinion are merely revealing their ignorance about the character.

Cage is not some brutish stooge who is easily confounded and manipulated. Nor is he one who only seeks to resolve problems with his fists. Over the 34 years this character has been around, Luke has consistently been shown to be clever, resourceful and tenacious. He has worked with teams before although he has preferred to work alone. Danny is the only one he has ever really trusted. I am sure he will have comfort in having him around.

In short, I see absolutely nothing outrageous about Luke leading the New Avengers. His admiration for Captain America is strikingly obvious. Cap taught him about what it means to be an Avenger and the responsiblities such a position carries. During Civi War Cage has virturally shadowed Cap like a body guard. Cap's influence, as revealed in the Pulse, even contributed to Luke's decision to ask Jessica to marry him. As I see it Cap has prepared Luke for a leadership role and I am excited to see what Bendis does with it.

[HOLD DAT]

I'm propably alone in this but i would like to see wolverine in a leadership role...As lonag as he in the frame of mind as he was in his Origins story recently. I love a great thinking, smart fighting wolverine

Or maybe a combination with Strange an Cage at the helm

[Vic Vega]

I think Cage is meant to be the ethical/moral leader for the team. Note that "impact patrolling" was his idea. When he joins the first thing he says is that he has idea for the team.

Spidey gets to be the science guy, and Wovie/Ronin or Fist will do the tactical stuff.

Strange is just there to 'port them from place to place, read the occasional mind. At full effectiveness he overshadows the entire team.

[XPac]

I'm propably alone in this but i would like to see wolverine in a leadership role...As lonag as he in the frame of mind as he was in his Origins story recently. I love a great thinking, smart fighting wolverine

Or maybe a combination with Strange an Cage at the helm

Certainly Logan has the experience. But the downside to Wolverine is that he might end up only being a part timer because of his commitments to the X-Men. I don't know if that will be the case or not... his situation might change. But we saw that happen early on in New Avengers.

That, and the fact that he pretty much never wants to lead, is the only downside to him leading as he's got the experience and ability to do it.

[XPac]

Strange is just there to 'port them from place to place, read the occasional mind. At full effectiveness he overshadows the entire team.

Yeah.... I think Strange basically plays the role of Tony Starks money. If he's on the field with them in battle, the rest can pretty much just sit back and try not to get in the way.

[Alan2099]

I still think Cage taking the leadership roll seems too forced. He's just never struck me as a leader. Sure he's reliable and all that, but nothing has really shown me he can take command. Even when it's just the two of thwem, Ironfist is usually the guy who sems to be calling the shots betwen the two of them.

Still, that doesn't leave many other choices.

Logan is a good leader, but he's more the drill st type of leader and with this group that just wouldn't cut it.

Ronin by the characters nature has to remain hidden, so it's not like he can take controll, whether he's Cap, Fury, or NFL SuperPro.

dr. Strange defintley has the ego and seems the most leader like character, but he lacks any real people skills and typically can't see the trees for the forrest. he's way too big picture.

[gorthon616]

Those who argue Cage does not have leadership qualities to lead this team in my opinion are merely revealing their ignorance about the character.

Cage is not some brutish stooge who is easily confounded and manipulated. Nor is he one who only seeks to resolve problems with his fists. Over the 34 years this character has been around, Luke has consistently been shown to be clever, resourceful and tenacious. He has worked with teams before although he has preferred to work alone. Danny is the only one he has ever really trusted. I am sure he will have comfort in having him around.

In short, I see absolutely nothing outrageous about Luke leading the New Avengers. His admiration for Captain America is strikingly obvious. Cap taught him about what it means to be an Avenger and the responsiblities such a position carries. During Civi War Cage has virturally shadowed Cap like a body guard. Cap's influence, as revealed in the Pulse, even contributed to Luke's decision to ask Jessica to marry him. As I see it Cap has prepared Luke for a leadership role and I am excited to see what Bendis does with it.

For me that's the deal. He can work with teams, and intellectually is certainly capable. But he doesn't have that group mentality that speaks to being a leader. Maybe he has been groomed for the role recently, but he still doesn't strike me as the leader-type.

That being said, that perfectly a fine way to handle it. It really depends on how exactly it is played out. If its in the same vein as the New Avengers debut, "hey we need a superteam.... follow me!" then Cage really doesn't fit. But if its more a "we need a leader... and your it!" then I can see it.

[Haunt]

For me that's the deal. He can work with teams, and intellectually is certainly capable. But he doesn't have that group mentality that speaks to being a leader. Maybe he has been groomed for the role recently, but he still doesn't strike me as the leader-type.

That being said, that perfectly a fine way to handle it. It really depends on how exactly it is played out. If its in the same vein as the New Avengers debut, "hey we need a superteam.... follow me!" then Cage really doesn't fit. But if its more a "we need a leader... and your it!" then I can see it.

strikes me more as a co-leader like back when Iron Fist was leading Heroes for Hire and Luke was his right-hand man.