Spider-man Reign 2 Discussion!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sparda]

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We start off on the news cast with Miller talking about are masked men returning and we switch to Jameson handing out Daily Bugle papers to people on the return of Web head and turns out in this world, newspapers are restricted and no free press as such (damn commie ways of the mayor). The little girl from the first issue goes on to join Jameson's group and Jameson at a church (hidden) makes an awesome speech. Next we see the mayor worrying and such and his assistant advices to release the sinner six (new name) and begin the Webb program.

Jameson having a kid hack into all computers and telling people to come to a the streets to see events that are about to come. Crowds form and the REIGN police bitch at people to go home and this is illegable blah blah (damn no freedom). We see some black guy playing old disco music and it actually gets the police to dance a little but the batteries die in the boom box and gets shot on sight. What ever happend to arresting? He WAS OLD. People being terrified at this scene, we see Peter shaving and packing up to get out of the city before the Web program starts and starts arguing with his illusions of MJ who would'nt move. The Reign police shoots a bazooka at his apartment and in his mind of illusions seeing MJ smile for the first time, comes crashing out with a similar tingling.

Now he's back in costume and in black mind you :). He beats on the police and seeing this, encourages the people to stand up for them selves and we see Reign police taking down Jameson and slapping the girl who tried to help him, people get mad and riled up that they were abusing thier power, and tackled the Reign guy. We see spidey hilarously beating on the Reign cops cracking jokes with his awesome black costume all of a sudden got hit by lightning. Sinner 6 then start to attack Peter (apparently really old foes of Peter, I thought they would be much older). Peter gets a hell of a beating and people gazing in horror and Kraven mocking Peter about how he buried him one time and wants to take his trophy (apparently the Last hunt storyline happend in this alternate future but in this one Kraven did'nt commic suicide and peter just beat the stuffings out of him. As a not he's alot older than Peter but the guy looks muscalor with barely any gray hair along with the other sinister six team.)

After people see Peter's old face in horror of the beating and the six giving it to him (his poor black costume getting ripped to shreds :( ) Out of nowwhere we see someone familiar with long tenacle arms and smacks the six out of the way to get Peter's body and takes it with him. Octopus takes peter to a graveyard and is digging up ground to be buried to MJ's burield.

END

My god this issue was good and poor peter getting a horrible beating got me sad for him. It WAS A HUGE PLUS to see him in his black costume again as my first taste of Peter being back in black. Issue left me wanting for more.

[Keehar]

Sounds awesome.

Did Ock say anything when he arrived and took Peter to the graveyard??

[MrPunch0]

So who are the six?

From the fight Electro, Scorpion and Kraven were obvious. Was that Sandman? And I thought I got a glimpse of Mysterio? Was Doc Ock number six?

Other than being a little confused about this ... I'm loving this miniseries.

[gary]

The warden mentioned that the explosives would tear apart sand and water so Sandman and Hydroman were probably part of the six.

[her_mann]

I just picked up issue 1 and 2 today and read them back to back. I like the overall tone of the book but with the news panels and with Spidey in "retirement" it just seems too close to Frank Miller's classic Batman storyline that I grew up with.

That said...I somehow am really enjoyed it despite what I just said. Does anyone agree with this?

[Sparda]

I just picked up issue 1 and 2 today and read them back to back. I like the overall tone of the book but with the news panels and with Spidey in "retirement" it just seems too close to Frank Miller's classic Batman storyline that I grew up with.

That said...I somehow am really enjoyed it despite what I just said. Does anyone agree with this?
Ya it does have a tone of the Dark knight returns to it, but yet it's different. In this world, the government has gotten very oppressing to the point where it's much like commies or Feudal ages. Banning so many things as music, freedom of speech and so on.

This world is most likely a result of what happens after the events of civil war in a messed up way. Seeing in a flash back in issue one where spidey yells, "murderer" and throws the guy out the window, was probably a setting point for retirement.

I'm curious on what marvel hero's are still remaining in this world. X-Men still kicking? Cap is very very old or die in battle? Those are question's I'd like answered and know on how that world became to be. Most likely on the next issue seeing that Peter is by MJ's grave and will probably have flashbacks of the old days and how it ended up like this.

[MrPunch0]

Hmmmm ... that scene with JJ in the church got me wondering last night.

"They" locked up all the bells because they're afraid of them.

Is Venom the politician pulling all the strings? Or perhaps the aide who seems to be pulling his strings?

[Karl O'Neill]

Got the first issue, really didnt like it, avoided the second issue like the plague

[Keehar]

Issue 2 was awesome.

Nuff' said.

[Big Red Spider]

I really like it. I don't think it's Kaare's best work art-wise, but I really enjoy that the story doesn't give a lot away. I did know MJ was dead from the first issue, and I'm pretty sure Pete's wearing the venom symbiote. But I've no idea what the little girl has to do with anything.

[her_mann]

Ya it does have a tone of the Dark knight returns to it, but yet it's different. In this world, the government has gotten very oppressing to the point where it's much like commies or Feudal ages. Banning so many things as music, freedom of speech and so on.

This world is most likely a result of what happens after the events of civil war in a messed up way. Seeing in a flash back in issue one where spidey yells, "murderer" and throws the guy out the window, was probably a setting point for retirement.

I'm curious on what marvel hero's are still remaining in this world. X-Men still kicking? Cap is very very old or die in battle? Those are question's I'd like answered and know on how that world became to be. Most likely on the next issue seeing that Peter is by MJ's grave and will probably have flashbacks of the old days and how it ended up like this.

I doubt they will talk about any other heroes since its only a four issue series. If it was a few issues longer then I could see that. Spider-Man has always been a loner for the most part.

I hope the story isn't rushed either. If your going to be dark you should take it slow and have good development of the characters. So far its been good but with only two issues left I am worried that its gonna be all downhill from here...

[Keehar]

and I'm pretty sure Pete's wearing the venom symbiote.

No, he's not.

The Venom symbiote never ripped like cloth.

[brundlefly]

Kraven mocking Peter about how he buried him one time and wants to take his trophy (apparently the Last hunt storyline happend in this alternate future but in this one Kraven did'nt commic suicide and peter just beat the stuffings out of him. As a not he's alot older than Peter but the guy looks muscalor with barely any gray hair along with the other sinister six team.)

I just rationalized it as being Kraven's kid, "Al Kraven," who's gone cuckoo and thinks he's his dad now, hence the reference to 'burying' Pete. Would also explain why he appears close to Pete in age, while the real Kraven wouldn't be. It's the easiest explanation and keeps from tarnishing the great ending to Last Hunt. Plus it makes worthless "Al Kraven" useful for the first time in his existence, too. ;)



From the fight Electro, Scorpion and Kraven were obvious. Was that Sandman? And I thought I got a glimpse of Mysterio? Was Doc Ock number six?

Sandman and Hydro-Man are probably both in there, as when referring to the explosives planted in the Six, the warden makes reference to the fact that they can "destroy a single grain of sand or drop of water." So I think it's Scorp, Al Kraven, Electro, Sandman, and Hydro-Man. Not sure about number six, since "Doc Ock's" face was intentionally obscured the whole issue, leading me to believe it might not be him wielding the tentacles.

I didn't really like issue one, thought it aped Dark Knight Returns too heavily. But the cover for this issue with the Spidey-villain dogpile intrigued me, so I picked it up. This was significantly better and think I will stick around to see how the series turns out.

EDIT: gary mentioned the sand/water reference already. Teach me to read threads more closely before replying....

[Keehar]

Not sure about number six, since "Doc Ock's" face was intentionally obscured the whole issue, leading me to believe it might not be him wielding the tentacles.

According to the solicits for issue 3, it's Octavius alright.

I think he's probably scarred or deformed in some way. Perhaps due to a battle he had with Spider-Man. That would be cool.

[brundlefly]

According to the solicits for issue 3, it's Octavius alright.

I think he's probably scarred or deformed in some way. Perhaps due to a battle he had with Spider-Man. That would be cool.

Oh. Well alright, then. I'm glad it's really him as opposed to a ringer using the tentacles anyway. Just figured since his face was concealed the whole time that they were going for some kind of swerve next issue regarding who saved Pete from the Six.

[Shadow ES]

I'm pretty sure the six were Kraven, Scorpian, Electro, Sandman, Mysterio, and Doc Ock. I never saw anything that could possibly be hydroman.

I love the story, but the art bugs me. Especially the perspective of the church door in the alley. It's so far from correct it's distracting.

[tjarvis]

I don't know why, but I get the feeling that the Mayor's aide is connected to Osborn some way. I mean if you're doing Peter's swan song and including everyone it, it would be weird not to have some acknowledgement of Norman.

[Billy Parker]

Oh man this book is so awesome! It's so horrible with the pain and suffering that everyone faces, especially Peter.

So much good story in here, though my favorite line is, "With great responsibility comes great...POWER!" Oh that was brilliant!!!

[Traser]

I am really enjoying this story, but I have a few comments... Did anyone else feel like the speaches about freedom and all remind you a little bit of V for vendetta? The whole big brother system. ALso, Pete is really half gone, I hope they dont kill off MJ in the current 616 stuff but seeing Peter like that you really feel for the guy, I mean he's never ever caught a break. Plus, that hacker kid's death was just messed up. I was shocked that he'd get killed so soon. This book definitely has that gritty street level feel and is really good so far IMO. I always liked Spidey in black, but its really amazing the mental metamorphosis he undergoes once in costume. It's really cool.

[The Foreigner]

I'm enjoying this story and I'm interested to see what happens next, but often I wish the storytelling was much denser than it is. For example, we get about 2 pages of a girl wandering down an alley, but we don't even get a proper introduction or fight with the Sinner Six. Peter felt like a supporting character in this issue, and that's a shame.

I'm still curious how Venom is going to fit into all of this.

[ShadowSonic]

I think Venom may have something to do with the Mayor, because somebody in a prior post pointed out how "they" locked up all bells because "they" are afraid of them.

[Keehar]

Yeah, because bells are the only source of loud sound in the city :p

[Scott Taylor]

Its all right. I'm getting a little tired of Spidey getting beat up. Heck everyone getting beat up. Especially since everyone who gets beat up seems to have Wolverine's regenerative powers.

This series is kind of a mixed bag so far.

[the goddamn batman]

Is it just me or are all the backgrounds CG?


Also, it's one thing to completley ape DKR in terms of story, but even the drawings look like Miller/Janson drawings.

I dunno. I want to like it, I'm just not sure I do.

[StoneGold]

Also, it's one thing to completley ape DKR in terms of story, but even the drawings look like Miller/Janson drawings.

I dunno. I want to like it, I'm just not sure I do.

It's definitely an homage. I mean, the name of the newscaster was Miller Janson. He knows what he's doing.

[the goddamn batman]

doesn't make it less of a complete rip of.

When you use the basic story concept and the art style... I'd assume you are aware of what you're doing. Still...

I've already read DKR.;)

[Venom]

This has definitely been a superb story so far. It's just hard trying to get used to the art style as I've never seen this sort of art ever in a Spider-Man comic. Sinner Six, man that's a cool name. Another thing that bothers me. Why haven't any of the villains looked like they've aged much. I can understand Kraven because of the elixirs he takes, but what about the others. Was Mysterio dead as well? He looked very ghost-like, just standing there watching not even saying a single word.

[Chris Johnson]

The Hypno Hustler appearance was fantastic. Kudos to Kaare for putting in a character we thought we'd never see again. I thought the Sinister Six battle was brief, but how long could Peter have held up? Can't wait to see what happens with Ock next issue.

[solarstorm]

It seems ridiculous that the sinister six is so much stronger than peter.

Most members of the six should be older than he is.
Plus, he's spiderman. Regardless of age, he still is spiderman.

In regards to the solicitations, anyone else think Peter joins with venom to regain his youthfulness and strength (deal with the devil of sorts)?

[Big Red Spider]

In issue #1, wasn't it a piece of the venom costume on his old camera the jameson gave him that caused him to snap out of his funk?

[Shyft]

In issue #1, wasn't it a piece of the venom costume on his old camera the jameson gave him that caused him to snap out of his funk?

Im pretty sure he isnt wearing the symbiote - JJ says he found the mask, and gives it to Peter.

As to those saying its too close to DKR - its quite obviously a homage, but why is that a bad thing? The way the story is going has already shown considerable differences - in DKR Batman is very much the catalyst for his own return, the government doesnt use former villains to try and pin him down, and Bruce isnt pathetic like Peter is. Also the fact that its the Marvel Universe makes it different enough from DKR for it to pay homage in a good way while keeping its own cool stuff.

[Cody H]

Having never read DKR, I'm can't really offer an opinion with regard to the homage vs. rip-off debate. Regardless however, as a Spider-Man fan I'm interested in this story on it's own merit. DKR similarities notwithstanding, I'm far more interested in what happened to MJ, why Pete gave up being Spider-Man, what are these Reign guys really up to, and basically, the specific plot points that relate to the Spider-verse I know.

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

I, too, want to like this book but it just reads like Kaare's doing a bad Frank Miller impersonation here.

#2 really nailed this on the head for me, damn shame but I'm dropping this.

[Alex A Sanchez]

I'm pretty sure the six were Kraven, Scorpian, Electro, Sandman, Mysterio, and Doc Ock. I never saw anything that could possibly be hydroman.

I have to agree with you- I don't see hydro-man and Mysterio is definitely there. Although, Doc Ock may not be part of the six, and Hydroman could be there off panel. We'll hafta wait a month to find out.



I love the story, but the art bugs me.

See, I love the art. It captures the mood so effectively. It makes you really, really depressed to see old grey Peter- especially when he is beaten up. Regardless of details like perspective, the true essence of the art is to convey the emotion and events of the story (according to Scott McCloud), and this art does that brilliantly.

It reminds me more of Miller's work on 300 than it does on Dark Knight Returns.

[Ash-$]

what i think is going on

i'm pretty sure he's wearing the symboite, he even mentions not remembering putting it on, it just shows up under his clothes
i wouldn't be suprised if it ends up being destroyed and pete has to go the final battle alone, all classic red and blue stlye
or maybe that little girl ends up with it and becomes spider-girl/woman

and about doc ock? i think he's dead, he's mind is still controlling his arms but his body looked pretty far gone to me

mostly i'm just trying to figure out how that mayors aid is that seems to be really running things, he really reminds me of richard fisk/the rose/kingpin's son which would would make sense if that was the kingpin in the first issue

i was also thinking carnage maybe, i don't know

over all i like the title but i need more answers and less insane peter

[StoneGold]

At the very least, the I believe Kaare wants the readers to speculate that it is the symbiote. And Pete probably will at some point to. But then watch as the power to become Spider-Man was in you all along, all you had to do was click your heels three times or something.

[Keehar]

and about doc ock? i think he's dead, he's mind is still controlling his arms but his body looked pretty far gone to me

Yeah, I reckon something like that is going on with Ock.

[Alex A Sanchez]

over all i like the title but i need more answers and less insane peter

But that's the best part! The art and story are cloudy on purpose, to help give us insight into Peter's aging mind. Having him talk to MJ like that was awesome. This is the stype of stuff that makes this story stand on its own, independent of DKR (like people said before, I've read that story, I want to see something new now). We'll find out what is going on as Peter finds out.

[Chinofish]

There are a couple of differences, in DK batman has been fighting the good fight still and there still are govt authorized heroes. Here there doesnt seem to have been a hero in a while, and peter isnt prepared like bruce was. The greatest diff to me is like most of you say the conflict between peter and his guilt for 1) failing to protect MJ and 2) Failing Uncle Ben by losing control and murdering that crook who, i assume, murdered MJ. Peter is no longer joking anymore and the world is reflected and now bitter and dark. I like this series and cant wait to see how it goes.

[Sparda]

As I predict it, Peter will go more into his past while Octupos is digging a grave for him, and Peter seeing a ghost of MJ will heroically get the courage to defeat Octupos, goes somewhere and ditch the Black costume due to it bringing a sad face to MJ (bad memories cause of venom) and be in a iconic red and blue costume and be better prepared to fight the sinner six with his scientific side in help.

The mayor will release the brain dead brock with the symbiote and venom will be a gigantic ape like monster chasing Peter, and Peter struggling to fight him and in the end goes to the church beaten, people chant for him and he rings the one last Bell to destroy Brock. Peter back to normal (without talking much to himself) will have a everyday average guy speech and people will revolt against the mayor and happy ending. In the end familior marvel faces will pop up and help in the revolution (CAP IN A WHEELCHAIR ATTACK!!!!!!1) and things go happily ever after :)

[moebius]

As to those saying its too close to DKR - its quite obviously a homage, but why is that a bad thing? The way the story is going has already shown considerable differences - in DKR Batman is very much the catalyst for his own return, the government doesnt use former villains to try and pin him down, and Bruce isnt pathetic like Peter is. Also the fact that its the Marvel Universe makes it different enough from DKR for it to pay homage in a good way while keeping its own cool stuff.

I'm getting the DKR vibe too, and it's really turning me off to the story.

DKR worked because it actually said something about the iconic characters it was covering (Batman as an obssessed, semi-deranged vigilante; the Rogues as Batman's mirror; and even Superman as someone blinded by duty and authority), but it also worked because it was a product of its time (Reagan as President for Life, super-heroes press-ganged into a perpetual Cold War, the need for small men to tear down heroes and dreams, the dawn of constant punditry).

Taking that aesthetic but forgetting why that aesthetic was so important misses the point of the story.

If you want to tell the "Last Spider-Man Story," tell the last Spider-Man story. Hit the high points of the character (power = responsibility). Don't tell the "Last Batman Story, starring Spider-Man."

[Mister Mets]

I finally read these issues, and it's pretty good.
The art's extraordinary. Kaare Andews is proving himself one of the best in the business, and I think there are many great artists doing comics today.

The writing's great. I love the portrayal of Jonah (and I can believe that he's the type of guy who lives to be 96.) The death of the HypnoHustler was an excellent moment, it's always great to see Spider-Man in action, and the Webb poses an intriguing problem for this future.

Flaws
1. We're halfway through the story, and just found out what's going on with MJ, and I don't really like the idea of Spider-Man being crazy.
2. It is annoying that they show the Sinner Six without revealing who they are.

I'm still happily looking forward to Issue 3.

[Shyft]

I finally read these issues, and it's pretty good.
The art's extraordinary. Kaare Andews is proving himself one of the best in the business, and I think there are many great artists doing comics today.

The writing's great. I love the portrayal of Jonah (and I can believe that he's the type of guy who lives to be 96.) The death of the HypnoHustler was an excellent moment, it's always great to see Spider-Man in action, and the Webb poses an intriguing problem for this future.

Flaws
1. We're halfway through the story, and just found out what's going on with MJ, and I don't really like the idea of Spider-Man being crazy.
2. It is annoying that they show the Sinner Six without revealing who they are.

I'm still happily looking forward to Issue 3.

aww give him a break, hes not crazy hes just...a bit unhinged. anyway he went a bit schizo during the Clone Saga when he decided to side with the Jackal (im sorry for bringing up the Forbbiden Saga!).

and we know who 5 of the 6 are. Mysterio, Sand Man, Electro, Kraven, Scorpion.

[Keehar]

2. It is annoying that they show the Sinner Six without revealing who they are.

:confused:

They did reveal who they are. Kraven, Sandman, Electro, Mysterio, Scorpion, and I'm not sure who number six is.

[Mister Mets]

:confused:

They did reveal who they are. Kraven, Sandman, Electro, Mysterio, Scorpion, and I'm not sure who number six is.

My bad.
I missed Mysterio.
I can understand why they wouldn't want to reveal who the last of the six is, in case it's meant to be a surprise or something.

[MrPunch0]

what i think is going on

i'm pretty sure he's wearing the symboite, he even mentions not remembering putting it on, it just shows up under his clothes
i wouldn't be suprised if it ends up being destroyed and pete has to go the final battle alone, all classic red and blue stlye
or maybe that little girl ends up with it and becomes spider-girl/woman

and about doc ock? i think he's dead, he's mind is still controlling his arms but his body looked pretty far gone to me

mostly i'm just trying to figure out how that mayors aid is that seems to be really running things, he really reminds me of richard fisk/the rose/kingpin's son which would would make sense if that was the kingpin in the first issue

i was also thinking carnage maybe, i don't know

over all i like the title but i need more answers and less insane peter

I still say he's just wearing a mask - and that the symbiote is currently on (or is?) the mayor or his advisor Saks. JJJ says something about them banning all bells because they are afraid of them ...

"To hide the bells! Because they fear them! Because they are the thing that will hurt them!"

Every good Spidey fan remembers what happened to the black suit in the bell tower. And JJJ keeps refering to the collective "them." Sure "they" could be "the man" or the government – but it could also be an old man referring to a man and his symbiote who refers to himself as "we" ...

[Doom Hammer]

Plus his comments in the first issue about refusing to be strapped down and have "the blackness" pushed inside him...