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Royal
01-14-2007, 10:51 AM
From The Globe. (http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2007/01/09/substitute_teacher_convicted_in_school_computer_po rn_case/)

Julie Amero, 40, of Windham, was convicted Friday on four counts of risk of injury to a minor in connection to pornography the students saw on her computer screen. Prosecutors said sexually graphic computer images she accessed were seen by several of her Kelly Middle School students in October 2004.

During the trial, Amero said any inappropriate images on her computer screen were from adware, which can generate pop-up ads and not from sites specifically keyed. Prosecutor David Smith contended Amero physically clicked onto the graphic Web sites, which included meetlovers.com and femalesexual.com.

Further coverage from Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/articles/07/01/13/0753209.shtml) and Sunbelt Software's blog (http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/is-this-miscarriage-of-justice.html)

...While an expert for the defendant said he had discovered spyware on her PC that had been downloaded from a hairstyling site, the local police investigator claimed that the spyware had been downloaded from actively visiting porn sites. Amero testified that she had told four other teachers and the assistant principal about the popups, but received no assistance. The school's internet filtration software was not working because it's license had expired. Amero faces up to forty years in prison.

# According to another article, “Computer expert W. Herbert Horner, who performed a forensic examination of the computer for the defense, said Amero may have been redirected to the sexually-oriented sites through a hairstyling site accessed from the computer. He said the site allowed spyware to be downloaded onto the computer which allowed the pop-ups.”

# And, according to one source, the Trial Judge, Hillary Strackbein, “was seen falling asleep during proceedings and made comments to the jury that she wanted the case over by the end of the week. It was also reported that Judge Strackbein attempted to pressure the defense into an unwanted plea deal, in place of a trial. The defense attorney for Amero, moved for a mistrial shortly before closing arguments Friday, based on reports that jurors had discussed the case at a local restaurant.”

# And, the detective in the investigation "admitted there was no search made for adware, which can generate pop-up advertisements".

Unfortunatly, The local has her already pegged as "criminal". (http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070111/OPINION01/701110326) Even if an appeal is successful, Ms. Amero will probably never be able to work in that school system. Civil suits will likely happen as well.

This case as well as social site restrictions, including class plan blogs, has in my opinion got me wondering if school faculty as well as school boards really need courses in internet mechanics. To throw someone away for something that has possibly happened to 99% percent of PC users is ignorant and somewhat barbaric.

Xero Kaiser
01-14-2007, 11:12 AM
I've given up all hope of trying to understand how the legal system works

Alex L
01-14-2007, 09:51 PM
Sheer ridiculousness.

Athena Bast
01-14-2007, 09:59 PM
It's that like suing the bus driver if he drives by an accident or a shooting?

Donald M.
01-14-2007, 10:10 PM
It's that like suing the bus driver if he drives by an accident or a shooting?

No, it's like putting the bus driver in jail for forty years because he got lost and drove by a strip club.

Alex L
01-14-2007, 10:12 PM
It's also not dissimilar to firing the driver because the bus broke down at the time he happened to be driving it.

Royal
01-14-2007, 11:07 PM
No, it's like putting the bus driver in jail for forty years because he got lost and drove by a strip club.

That's a bit closer. If we're going to use a bus analogy, I'd say it's a sad case where the bus driver uses the highway on a day where a popular strip club decides to advertise the opening of a new joint by hiring a couple flatbed trucks and retrofit them for poledancing. Bus gets caught between them and the driver tries their best to divert from the situation without wrecking the bus. The driver later calls in the situation to a couple other drivers as well as the base chief about the situation. Because they know next to nothing about Highway Law, The driver is accused by the chief for getting into the situation and then sentanced by a prosecution equally inept in Highway Law, even though the Driver has the DoT and several drivers who were caught in a simular situation as defense.

Spike-X
01-15-2007, 01:57 AM
New rule - people who don't understand computers or the Internet don 't get to make/enforce laws regarding them.

Forefinger
01-15-2007, 04:54 AM
I need to poop.

DonC
01-15-2007, 07:41 AM
New rule - people who don't understand computers or the Internet don 't get to make/enforce laws regarding them.

I agree.

Man law?

Winslow
01-15-2007, 07:55 AM
That's a bit closer. If we're going to use a bus analogy, I'd say it's a sad case where the bus driver uses the highway on a day where a popular strip club decides to advertise the opening of a new joint by hiring a couple flatbed trucks and retrofit them for poledancing. Bus gets caught between them and the driver tries their best to divert from the situation without wrecking the bus. The driver later calls in the situation to a couple other drivers as well as the base chief about the situation. Because they know next to nothing about Highway Law, The driver is accused by the chief for getting into the situation and then sentanced by a prosecution equally inept in Highway Law, even though the Driver has the DoT and several drivers who were caught in a simular situation as defense.

While I agree with you, I find it hard to believe a half-way competent defense attorney couldn't have made that point during trial.

The other thing I've had happen to me at work, is to perform a google search, and unknowingly click on a porn link. There are "smart" (in terms of marketing smart) porn sites that know how to have their site show up on a google search and hide the fact they are porn.

40 years though? Sheesh.

Royal
01-15-2007, 11:22 AM
While I agree with you, I find it hard to believe a half-way competent defense attorney couldn't have made that point during trial.

The other thing I've had happen to me at work, is to perform a google search, and unknowingly click on a porn link. There are "smart" (in terms of marketing smart) porn sites that know how to have their site show up on a google search and hide the fact they are porn.

40 years though? Sheesh.

I think they did bring it up, but did it in a very technical manner. Where as the detective did it as matter of fact. Techno babble plus pressure from the judge to end it quick really doesn't mix well, especially when the only person who did know what happened is the defendant. also, from what I've read from the articles, prosecution was playing spyware as the the new "Twinkie defense".

I don't know if they were forced to keep it technical or not, but it really hurt them.

If we learn anything from this, it's that we really need to adopt a technorealist approach when it comes to technology and matters of law.

Agent Helix
01-15-2007, 11:23 AM
I can't imagine that sentence standing without appeal.

BlairH
01-15-2007, 11:35 AM
New rule - people who don't understand computers or the Internet don 't get to make/enforce laws regarding them.

I'm with you on that!

I'd also like to add the following to the list: Firearms, motor-vehicles, video games, radio controlled model aircraft, violent movies, etc.

howyadoin
01-15-2007, 01:45 PM
I'm with you on that!

I'd also like to add the following to the list: Firearms, motor-vehicles, video games, radio controlled model aircraft, violent movies, etc.People are doing hard time for radio controlled model aircraft?

Alex L
01-15-2007, 10:12 PM
I can't imagine that sentence standing without appeal.

The sentence isn't really the big part of it. I can't imagine anyone would actually jail her because pornography happened to make its way on a computer screen.

The bigger thing, to me (since the threat of real prison time is next to zero) would be the fact that she's now blacklisted in the district.

Royal
01-15-2007, 10:19 PM
Look on the bright side.

Her next computer is definatly gonna be a Mac.

Spike-X
01-16-2007, 01:03 AM
I can't imagine anyone would actually jail her because pornography happened to make its way on a computer screen.


But...children were exposed to it!! CHILDREN!!!

Won't somebody think of the CHIIIIIIIIIIIILDREEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!

thehod
01-16-2007, 04:07 AM
But...children were exposed to it!! CHILDREN!!!

Won't somebody think of the CHIIIIIIIIIIIILDREEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!

Whilst all the children are going "Cool! Boobies."

Spike-X
01-16-2007, 10:45 AM
The children were probably telling her how to get to all the good sites.

Royal
01-24-2007, 01:51 PM
And it just....get....crazy. (http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070124/NEWS01/701240317)

At Tuesday's school board meeting, Information Services Director Bob Hartz sought to calm the public furor regarding Julie Amero's Jan. 5 conviction for exposing Kelly Middle School students to sexually graphic Web sites in 2004.

Despite the Internet's 4.2 million pornography Web sites, according to familysafemedia.com, Hartz said Norwich's filtering software failed to stop school computer users from accessing inappropriate Web sites just six times since 1998.

"It's going to be impossible to block every objectionable Web site out there, but we do a pretty good job," Hartz said. "Since (Norwich switched to a new filtering system) in September of 2005, I haven't heard one report of a person getting to an inappropriate Web site."

Hartz said Amero could expose students to Web sites partly because of a technical glitch. Amero faces up to 40 years in prison at her March 2 sentencing for four counts of risk of injury to a minor.

From August to October 2004, the district's filtering system didn't regularly add newly discovered pornographic sites to its restricted Web sites database.

Hartz said Norwich's filtering software generally worked in 2004, but new offensive sites weren't blocked partly because Symantec, creator of the school's WebNOT computer filter, failed to send him a licensing certificate to activate the software's updates feature.

****

Merja Lehtinen of Colchester, a Norwich substitute teacher from 2000 to 2005, defended Amero's innocence Tuesday before the board.

Lehtinen claimed students set Amero up and she inadvertently accessed pornography left on a school computer by students.

"The school is just as liable as Julie, because it was their computer," Lehtinen said. "The school doesn't want parents to sue, so they hung Julie."

Parent Kimberly Shahan, reached by phone Tuesday night, said she doesn't know if Amero is innocent, but the school shouldn't be blamed for filter lapses.

"I think Norwich schools do as best they can to monitor these kids when it comes to the Internet," Shahan said. "If a child accidentally misspelled something, then something bad can come up and that's nobody's fault."

Paradox
01-25-2007, 01:18 AM
Agent Helix sees it coming:

I can't imagine that sentence standing without appeal.

The judge's behavior ALONE would warrant it.

Royal
02-15-2007, 02:51 PM
I think this answers our questions, 'slow.

From Washington Post (http://blog.washingtonpost.com/securityfix/2007/01/substitute_teacher_faces_jail.html?nav=rss_blog)

The case came to trial this month, and computer expert W. Herbert Horner testified for the defense that the images were the result of incessant pop-up ads served by spyware on the classroom computer. The prosecution's expert, a local police officer, said time-stamped logs on the machine showing adult-themed images and Web pages accessed by the Web browser at the time she was in the classroom proved that someone had intentionally visited the sites by clicking on a link or typing the address into the browser address bar.

An explanation for this is that Web browser logs will keep records of sites accessed whether they were generated by internal pop-up serving software or clicked on by a user. Also, try not to dwell on the fact that the judge in the case barred Horner from presenting technical evidence to back up his claims. Horner on Monday published a summary of the facts he would have presented were he allowed to at trial.

From the summery (http://www.networkperformancedaily.com/2007/01/the_strange_case_of_ms_julie_a_1.html)...

We asked the prosecution to arrange for the defense to have unfettered access to the internet so that we could reenact the events of October 19, 2004. It was not granted. I went to court with two laptops and a box full of reference material prepared to very clearly illustrate what happened to Julie Amero. But, the prosecution objected because they were not given "full disclosure" of my examination. I was allowed to illustrate two screens, that of the www.hair-styles.org , and www.new-hair-styles.com sites.

This was one of the most frustrating experiences of my career, knowing full well that the person is innocent and not being allowed to provide logical proof.

If there is an appeal and the defense is allowed to show the entire results of the forensic examination in front of experienced computer people, including a computer literate judge and prosecutor, Julie Amero will walk out the court room as a free person.

Man, out of two sources, we find out that this isn't realy about the truth, but nurturing luddite ignorance. Who's really at fault for this?

from The Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/14/nyregion/14teacher.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5090&en=9e18a05a5f2e2de3&ex=1329109200&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss)

During the trial, Robert Hartz, the information services manager for Norwich’s schools, said the computer’s filters that would have blocked such ads were not fully operational, since they had lacked the proper updated information for several weeks.

In an interview, Pam Aubin, superintendent of the Norwich schools, said that Mr. Hartz had ordered an upgrade, but that the supplier had sent it to the wrong e-mail address, using “B” for Bob rather than “R” for Robert in Mr. Hartz’s name.

"B" for Boob. Right.

Spike-X
02-15-2007, 08:35 PM
This is ridiculous. This poor woman is being crucified because the people persecuting...I mean, prosecuting her would rather remain wilfully ignorant about something than have to risk admitting they were wrong.

Spike-X
02-15-2007, 08:37 PM
The prosecution's expert, a local police officer, said time-stamped logs on the machine showing adult-themed images and Web pages accessed by the Web browser at the time she was in the classroom proved that someone had intentionally visited the sites by clicking on a link or typing the address into the browser address bar.

This is an out-and-out falsehood. Either he's deliberately lying, or he hasn't the slightest clue what he's talking about, in which case he shouldn't be presenting himself as an expert in anything except not knowing when to shut the fuck up.

Serik
02-23-2007, 10:11 PM
An update: http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/02/23/porn-pop-up-teacher-gets-new-attorney-pc-world-outs-juror/

The substitute teacher now has William Dow, a high-profile CT defense attorney, on her team - pro bono. Oh, and PCWorld ousted one of the jury members, who turns out to be an idiot.

Oh, and don't you think watching their teacher get crucified by the justice system is more damaging to the kids than some porno ads?

The DA should also be debarred for prosecutorial misconduct. As should the jackasses who tried the Georgia teen who was sentenced to 10 years in prison because of consensual oral sex. But hey, at least DA Nifong – of Duke Lacrosse fame – is getting his dues.

Nikita
02-24-2007, 03:28 PM
From The Globe. (http://www.boston.com/news/local/connecticut/articles/2007/01/09/substitute_teacher_convicted_in_school_computer_po rn_case/)



Further coverage from Slashdot (http://slashdot.org/articles/07/01/13/0753209.shtml) and Sunbelt Software's blog (http://sunbeltblog.blogspot.com/2007/01/is-this-miscarriage-of-justice.html)





Unfortunatly, The local has her already pegged as "criminal". (http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070111/OPINION01/701110326) Even if an appeal is successful, Ms. Amero will probably never be able to work in that school system. Civil suits will likely happen as well.

This case as well as social site restrictions, including class plan blogs, has in my opinion got me wondering if school faculty as well as school boards really need courses in internet mechanics. To throw someone away for something that has possibly happened to 99% percent of PC users is ignorant and somewhat barbaric.




That sucks. Makes ya wonder if it's even worth having computers connected to the Internet in schools these days.

Spike-X
02-24-2007, 03:32 PM
That sucks. Makes ya wonder if it's even worth having computers connected to the Internet in schools these days.
Of course it is. The people in charge of them just have to know what the fuck they're doing, which in this case they clearly don't. Of course, they're not willing to admit this, and would rather see an innocent woman railroaded into jail than to have to admit that.

Great example they're setting for their students there.

Nikita
02-24-2007, 08:17 PM
Of course it is. The people in charge of them just have to know what the fuck they're doing, which in this case they clearly don't. Of course, they're not willing to admit this, and would rather see an innocent woman railroaded into jail than to have to admit that.

Great example they're setting for their students there.


Um dude, I was just being a little sarcastic in my original post. Of course schools need computers. Damn, remind me to use a "smiley" next time.

Royal
02-24-2007, 08:28 PM
Sure, have computers in the classroom. Their uses are waaayyy overblown though.

It's like my shinto shrine...accept it represents education.

Nikita
02-24-2007, 08:34 PM
Sure, have computers in the classroom. Their uses are waaayyy overblown though.

It's like my shinto shrine...accept it represents education.




Side question unrelated to original post in thread: Pssssst.....what's a shinto shrine?

Royal
02-24-2007, 08:42 PM
Shrine (http://www.saintgregorys.org/Arts/Objects/Shinto+Gospel.jpg)

I've a smaller version with paper bolts hanging off the sides.

Nikita
02-24-2007, 08:49 PM
Shrine (http://www.saintgregorys.org/Arts/Objects/Shinto+Gospel.jpg)

I've a smaller version with paper bolts hanging off the sides.



Wow, cool.

Royal
05-20-2007, 08:38 PM
Sentancing delayed till june 6th (http://www.norwichbulletin.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070518/NEWS01/705180324/1002)

They're covering their asses folks.

Jack Zodiac
05-20-2007, 10:29 PM
I agree.

Man law?

No, sir. The "Man Law" would be "you're never too young for porn."

Seriously, though, even if it was her fault... forty fucking years? I know heroin dealers doing less than a quarter of that time. I've seen shorter murder sentences. How could anyone justify anything more than suspension, possible termination, a serious fine, and some community service for something so fucking minor?

Spike-X
05-21-2007, 02:24 AM
Or better yet, how about no sentence at all, because it's painfully obvious to anyone who knows the slightest thing about computers that this is not her fault in any way whatsoever.

This poor woman is being sacrificed so that the incompetent, negligent school administrators and IT department don't have to admit that this is completely, 100% their fault.

Dreadstar
05-21-2007, 07:20 AM
Can we all at least agree that those who propogate spyware should have portions of their anatomy removed without anesthetic?

hoffmandu
05-21-2007, 07:55 AM
Is there anyway to definitively tell whether she's guilty or not? Like a timecode for the spam was downloaded and amyabe a time? I'm not an IT guy.

hoffmandu
05-21-2007, 07:56 AM
post part deux

Royal
05-22-2007, 12:46 AM
Is there anyway to definitively tell whether she's guilty or not? Like a timecode for the spam was downloaded and amyabe a time? I'm not an IT guy.

That's the thing. From what I read about the subject, one of the main keys of spyware is concealment. The programs could have been using anything as a trojan horse. From your regular porn spam to a website that no one, not even the website creator, would think of harbouring spyware. So the programs could have been downloaded anywhere between late 2003 to at least the morning of Oct. 14, when the normal teacher was there. Hell, Amero could have let spyware in just by checking mail and not even be aware that it was happening.

Another thing is that most the spyware affected the browser, which was IE. IE has been netorious for being weak in terms of security, even if there was a modicrum of security on that machine, the browser would have been hit first.

Finally, I can't seem to find proper documentation, but there was a couple of reports that most of MS security updates did not download for most of 2004. So MS has much to blame as the education system is.

Spike-X
06-09-2007, 04:43 PM
Finally, justice and common sense have prevailed, and the conviction has been overturned (http://www.theday.com/re.aspx?re=27ac5889-d5bc-48b7-9eac-c4720a2fda2d).

I hope, now that her life has been ruined, that she sues everyone involved for millions and millions of dollars - the school that let her be crucified for their error, and the prosecutor for not having half a fucking brain, because if he did this trial would never have happened.

Royal
10-24-2008, 09:30 PM
Got curious and thought I'd check on the aftermath of this case.

Julie didn't get her trial yet. (http://www.courant.com/news/local/columnists/hc-rgreen0708.artjul08,0,2843628.column)

You would have thought when Superior Court Judge Hillary B. Strackbein tossed out the trumped-up conviction of a substitute teacher last year that the state of Connecticut would have decided to leave Julie Amero alone.

Wrong.

Unbelievably, more than 13 months after Strackbein set aside Amero's conviction on charges that she allowed seventh-graders to view pornography in her classroom, the state is apparently still planning to bring Amero back to trial.

Which means that as long as Amero is on the trial list, she must live with this hanging over her head.

Spike-X
10-24-2008, 09:34 PM
Oh, for fuck's sake.

Gilda Dent
10-25-2008, 05:34 AM
It seems obvious, given the information presented here, that the woman is innocent of any wrongdoing.

However, for the sake of argument, let's say hypothetically that she did following a link looking for porn, that she did exactly what she was accused of.

Even if this were the case, there are two reasonable courses of action for the school to take. You could call her into the principal's office and tell her, "Don't do that," and not call her in to substitute at that school any longer. Or they could remove her from the district's substitute call list.

That's really about as far as it would need to go assuming that she was entirely guilty, which it appears she very likely wasn't.

Spike-X
10-25-2008, 02:48 PM
You're being entirely too reasonable and rational here, Gilda.

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILREN?!?!?!

Gilda Dent
10-25-2008, 03:10 PM
You're being entirely too reasonable and rational here, Gilda.

WON'T SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILREN?!?!?!

Maybe I'm biased a bit.

I remember six, seven years ago having something similar happen to me. I'm looking for some song lyrics, and accidentally download a program that opens up multiple windows, many of which are porn sites. The weird part is that they would open almost as fast as I could close them until there were 30 or 40 windows open and the computer choked on the load and had to be rebooted. As a way of advertising whatever was in the windows, it was terrible. Open two or three windows and maybe I'd see what was in one or two, but several dozen guarantees I'm not looking.

I told the computer network guy, he came out a day later and fixed things and installed firefox for me and I told the principal what happened. She asked if any of the kids saw anything they shouldn't, and I said no, she made a note of it and that was it.

Royal
02-11-2009, 05:49 PM
Amero folded. Plead Guilty for Disorderly Conduct (http://www.abcnews.go.com/GMA/Story?id=6739393&page=1)

But for 18 months prosecutors pondered whether they should retry the former educator. They dropped the felony charges, but in November 2008 Amero pleaded guilty to disorderly conduct. She can never work in a classroom again.

She said the plea bargain was the result of not wanting to spend more time in a courtroom because the entire ordeal had taken a serious toll on her health.

"They got a pound of flesh," said Amero, who remains unemployed and says she's unable to get work thanks to the ordeal. "The doctors all agreed that I would not make it through another trial."

Amero said the stress of the trial caused a miscarriage and prompted breathing troubles.

Her husband, 57-year-old Wes Vello, said he sees the plea agreement as the state's way of being inflexible.

"They were unwilling to admit they'd made a mistake," said Vello, who works seven days a week as a shipbuilder. "In my opinion it was just a saving face for the state."

It's over. Ludites got what they wanted.

Spike-X
02-11-2009, 06:15 PM
Un-fucking-believable.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
02-11-2009, 06:26 PM
Well that's a travesty of justice.

What a bunch of dicks.

If anyone here lives in that state, I'd move the fuck out.

A school puts someone with no training on a machine with which they've been to cheap to take the proper precautions, and then hang her out when someone else puts images on the computer - images which we don't even know if the kids really noticed, if they had, that would have been the basis of the prosecution.
She then gets tried by a judge who not only doesn't seem to understand or care about computers, but is unwilling to learn, and bars her defense from countering the false testimony from a police detective. (He should be done with perjury - either he knowingly lied about the info he gave, or he lied about his ability to give expert witness).
There's also signs that the jury aren't behaving like a jury.
Once people who actually know computers flock to her defense, pro-bono, to stop this bullshit from happening, a Judge in a higher court rules a mistrial.
THEN, for no real good seeming reason than the state didn't want to lose a 'child pornography' case, or that the school didn't want to face any charges or civil suits, they keep saying they are going to re-trial the case for over a year, until this poor teacher, who has had trouble getting a job anywhere else, folds because she just wants it all to be over.

FUCK THAT.

That's just shameful.

Is there any sort of online petition or email addresses for the school, police department and prosecutors offices about?
Those sad bastards need to be told how pathetic they are.

DrewTheXenocide
02-11-2009, 07:23 PM
This is weird. Murder on the news? Not fazed. Rape? Happens all the time. Baby found in dumpster? At least it got found. This? I'm actually really upset.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
02-11-2009, 07:29 PM
This is weird. Murder on the news? Not fazed. Rape? Happens all the time. Baby found in dumpster? At least it got found. This? I'm actually really upset.

That's because instead of working on any of those other horrors, the schools, police and legal system are busy trying to hang someone over not committing a crime.

howyadoin
02-11-2009, 09:49 PM
She should sue them back, for the miscarriage.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
02-11-2009, 10:21 PM
She should sue them back, for the miscarriage.

Her personal life could be awesome and she should still sue the shit out of them for that case.
Incompetence knows no bounds in that city/state.

Chris N
02-11-2009, 10:39 PM
New rule - people who don't understand computers or the Internet don 't get to make/enforce laws regarding them.

I understand that it's a series of tubes.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
02-11-2009, 10:41 PM
I understand that it's a series of tubes.

And it's not a truck.

Paul McEnery
02-11-2009, 10:44 PM
She should sue them back, for the miscarriage.

The terrible thing is, that's almost certainly why they didn't dismiss the charges.

howyadoin
02-11-2009, 10:46 PM
The terrible thing is, that's almost certainly why they didn't dismiss the charges.I wish I could say you're being overly cynical.

MacQuarrie
02-12-2009, 12:36 AM
Well, here's the page for the school:
http://www.norwichpublicschools.org/kellyms/index.html

And here's a MySpace page dedicated to the case:
http://groups.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=groups.groupProfile&groupID=105538593

The MySpace page includes contact information for everyone involved.

Augusto
02-12-2009, 02:50 AM
One working and responsible mother suffers a miscarriage here, One irresponsible and unemployed mother delivers eight there.
A bunch of fools who know nothing about computers blame the first.
A bunch of experts in fertilization help the second.

This is wrong. Hope karma kicks in real soon for both women.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
02-12-2009, 05:22 PM
This is wrong. Hope karma kicks in real soon for both women.

Karma is for your next life, not this one.

Paul McEnery
02-12-2009, 06:50 PM
Karma is for your next life, not this one.

Not so much, actually. That's the debased populist version of the idea. The elevated idea is to regard the world as a GIGO system, so we'd better watch what we put into it.

FunkyGreenJerusalem
02-12-2009, 07:02 PM
Not so much, actually. That's the debased populist version of the idea. The elevated idea is to regard the world as a GIGO system, so we'd better watch what we put into it.

Oh, I was ripping the piss.

You die, that's it.
Karma ain't real.

That's why it's important not to be a shit - ie. don't stitch someone up for forty years because your too cheap to upgrade computers - and for everyone else to get outraged when someone is a shit, because this is it.