Avengers: Emperor Doom

[mattbib]

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2003/nov12/emperordoom.jpg

As I occasionally do, I re-read this original graphic novel the other day. And it's still as good as ever. Lots of good characters, and, despite not being an FF book, a great look at the character of Doom. I especially loved the way he systematically eliminated all the non-human characters before using Purple Man to take over the world. This is also probably my favorite use of Wonder Man. Ever. I also liked the way Iron Man failed to overcome the brainwashing.

Has anyone NOT read this? I strongly recommend finding it. :)

[Will.S]

I always come VERY close to buying it but I keep thinking that Marvel is going to do a collection including this graphic novel (with better paper). If I can find it for a good price I'll give it a go though.

[Captain Exaggeration]

http://www.moviepoopshoot.com/comics101/images/2003/nov12/emperordoom.jpg

As I occasionally do, I re-read this original graphic novel the other day. And it's still as good as ever. Lots of good characters, and, despite not being an FF book, a great look at the character of Doom. I especially loved the way he systematically eliminated all the non-human characters before using Purple Man to take over the world. This is also probably my favorite use of Wonder Man. Ever. I also liked the way Iron Man failed to overcome the brainwashing.

Has anyone NOT read this? I strongly recommend finding it. :)
I wish my comic store had some of the old graphic novels. If I find it some time I'll probably pick it up. I love me some Doom stories.

[John Nowak]

It's hard to go wrong with a good Doctor Doom story, yeah.

[XPac]

I definatlely liked that story.

I'm both a Wonderman fan and a Dr. Doom fan, so this was right up my ally. Simon RARELY gets to play hero. And this was a nice character piece for Dr. Doom.

Doom ruling the world did have it's upsides. No racism, no homelessness, no war, no hunger. He didn't spend all day having the population of earth errect giant statues of himself. He really did try and make the world into what he honestly believed was a better place. And even though I feel he was wrong (as free will is more than a little important), you can almost see why he's a guy that does believes he's doing the world a favor.

I was hoping with the resurgence of the popularity of PUrple Man via Bendis, someone might reprint it someday. So far no such luck.

[garin]

The world was absolutely better off under Doom. I liked it that Simon wasn't sure that they'd done the right thing in deposing him.

[DDM]

Doom ruling the world did have it's upsides. No racism, no homelessness, no war, no hunger...

...No free will...

[Shellhead]

This was a great sequel to a good story (Super-Villain Team-Up #14/Champions #16), and like Mattbib said, one of the best Wonder Man stories. It's also a great Dr. Doom story, and a decent Avengers story. I'm not a big fan of Bob Hall's artwork, but he gave a decent effort this time around.

[StoneGold]

In some ways, I hate this as a Doom story. OK, he conquered the world. He got bored with it. So now why does he still try to conquer it?

[XPac]

In some ways, I hate this as a Doom story. OK, he conquered the world. He got bored with it. So now why does he still try to conquer it?

I think Doom wants to conquer the world... he just doesn't necessarily want to rule it (even though he genuinely feels that he'd do a better job than anyone else).

It's sort of similiar to Kang in that effect. The conquering part is less a means to an end, but rather an end unto itself. Once you actually suceed in conquering something, the fun part is basically over.

[DDM]

In some ways, I hate this as a Doom story. OK, he conquered the world. He got bored with it. So now why does he still try to conquer it?

Doctor Doom wants to prove to Reed Richards his plans & technology is far more superior & better. That's all. Doom does not really want to conquer the Earth.

[Shellhead]

I think Doom wants to conquer the world... he just doesn't necessarily want to rule it (even though he genuinely feels that he'd do a better job than anyone else).

It's sort of similiar to Kang in that effect. The conquering part is less a means to an end, but rather an end unto itself. Once you actually suceed in conquering something, the fun part is basically over.

I believe it. Sometimes wanting is better than having. Or as George Alec Effinger once wrote (as near as I can remember), for every beautiful woman, there is a guy who is sick of her dirty underwear on the floor.

[StoneGold]

I believe it. Sometimes wanting is better than having. Or as George Alec Effinger once wrote (as near as I can remember), for every beautiful woman, there is a guy who is sick of her dirty underwear on the floor.

Problem with that is, why does he keep trying to take over the earth then? Generally, when you break up with a girl, you don't try to bang her again, you move on to her hotter sister.

[Kirk G]

I always come VERY close to buying it but I keep thinking that Marvel is going to do a collection including this graphic novel (with better paper). If I can find it for a good price I'll give it a go though.

Does anyone recall a similar graphic novel that was published about the same time called IIRC "The Revenge of the Living Monolith"? As I recall, that was as big a story as Emperor Doom, and actually changed the status of a Marvel character or villian... But didn't necessary stick.

I think I bought them both.
What did you think?

[Mitchel]

This is also probably my favorite use of Wonder Man. Ever.

I don't have this one although a Wonder Man fan scanned most of it and sent it over to my site some years ago when we were discussing it at my message board. I have to agree that this is great use of the character. You can't go wrong with Michelinie writing the character.

[mattbib]

Does anyone recall a similar graphic novel that was published about the same time called IIRC "The Living Monolith"? As I recall, that was as big a story as Emperor Doom, and actually changed the status of a Marvel character... But didn't necessary stick.

I think I bought them both.
What did you think?Revenge of the Living Monolith

It featured the FF, Spider-Man, Thor and Captain America (and appearances by a few other Avengers). It was written by Michelinie and IIRC it was one of Silvestri's earliest Marvel works. I don't recall any "change of status" to any major character, other than the Living Pharoah, who became the Monolith. Thor threw him into space where he drifted into the orbit of some "distant star" where he became a "living planet."

Yeah, that definitely didn't stick.

[cactusmaac]

Doom's only goal now seems to be besting Richards and trying to obtain ultimate power although he probably wouldn't be keen on keeping it.

He made for a great beneovolent despot but given how bored he was, he'd have probably tried to use Earth to conquer the universe in order to move on to the next biggest challenge.

[Jazzie B]

As I occasionally do, I re-read this original graphic novel the other day. And it's still as good as ever. Lots of good characters, and, despite not being an FF book, a great look at the character of Doom. I especially loved the way he systematically eliminated all the non-human characters before using Purple Man to take over the world. This is also probably my favorite use of Wonder Man. Ever. I also liked the way Iron Man failed to overcome the brainwashing.

Has anyone NOT read this? I strongly recommend finding it. :)I would agree with you on all counts. This old school style graphic novel is a real treat.

I liked the selection of Avengers that were focused on by Michelinie - and as you mentioned already this is a must for fans of Wonderman! He really shines in this story. I also liked the art.

[Jazzie B]

Does anyone recall a similar graphic novel that was published about the same time called IIRC "The Revenge of the Living Monolith"? As I recall, that was as big a story as Emperor Doom, and actually changed the status of a Marvel character or villian... But didn't necessary stick.

I think I bought them both.
What did you think?I have this graphic novel as well as Emperor Doom. I didn't think it was as strong as Emperor Doom and really only picked it up because I was going through my "buy anything that is even remotely related to the Avengers" phase.

Revenge of the Living Monolith is not really an Avengers story but it is still a semi-good read.

[Nefarius]

In some ways, I hate this as a Doom story. OK, he conquered the world. He got bored with it. So now why does he still try to conquer it?

In my opinion,Doom felt bored because he conquered the world using Purple Man's power.I believe that Doom wants to conquer the world after beating his enemies and achieve victory by force.It's like a video game.It's more sweet to win a game clearly rather than using cheat codes.The use of Purple Man is like using cheats while playing a game.

[MAK15]

In my opinion,Doom felt bored because he conquered the world using Purple Man's power.I believe that Doom wants to conquer the world after beating his enemies and achieve victory by force.It's like a video game.It's more sweet to win a game clearly rather than using cheat codes.The use of Purple Man is like using cheats while playing a game.

thats good logic right there.

[XPac]

In my opinion,Doom felt bored because he conquered the world using Purple Man's power.I believe that Doom wants to conquer the world after beating his enemies and achieve victory by force.It's like a video game.It's more sweet to win a game clearly rather than using cheat codes.The use of Purple Man is like using cheats while playing a game.

That's the thing. Doom has conquered the world twice via mind control, and has gotten bored with it twice to the point where he sort of let the goodbuys beat him (not unlike Thanos, though their motivations were different).

As you nicely put it, Doom doesn't want to use the cheat codes.

Maybe part of him wants everyone to just admit that he's right and he should rule the world. He's probably scratching his head wondering why the world hasn't done that yet and just given itself to him. To Doom's ego, it must seem so ridiculously obvious.

[Frank]

I bought this in the early 90s because the clerk at my shop pimped the Hell out of it to me, laughing hysterically at what was happening. When he mentioned Wonderman I had to get this. This how super-heroes stories should be done, that is how you make people fall in love with characters. (Bendis should take note of that. ;) )

[Green Goblin]

This was the first goal he acmpolished the second was to free his mother soul with th hlep of Doctor Strange in one of the Best graphic novels ever can anyremmber the title of this I got but can't remember it

[Grazzt]

I don't recall any "change of status" to any major character

Well, the WTC got destroyed, but that was retconned into being done by Osama bin Laden.

[mattbib]

can anyremmber the title of this I got but can't remember ithttp://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/25919844280.1.GN.GIF

[Dusty.]

Love Emperor Doom! It's my second favorite original graphic novel ever. My favorite is Michelinie and Silvestri's Revenge of the Living Monolith.

Bob Hall did a great job on Emperor Doom's art. I have the first 2 bookshelf format issues of a Batman mini series featuring the villianous Joker. He wrote and drew it, and it's great art.

[Green Goblin]

That aare the one Trimpuh and Torment so what did you fellows think of this book I enjoyed it greatly and Doom succed in winning his mother soul free from hell

[Kirk G]

That is the one "Trimpuh and Torment." so what did you fellows think of this book? I enjoyed it greatly and Doom succed in winning his mother soul free from hell.

I thought it was a reasonably good story, but not an award winning book. Roger Stern is extremely proud of this one and he references it often. However, I thought the artwork (while very similar to Hellboy) misses the moodiness of the Dark Horse pacing... and as a result, I find that the art hurts the story through its simplistic renderings of Doom and Strange.

I dunno. I guess it might be personal tastes, but this one just didn't make it for me. Perhaps if I re-read it now, after years of Hellboy, that fledgling artist "Mignolia"-somebody might have changed my mind. :D

But I would definitely recommend fans of either Dr. Strange or especially Dr. Doom to seek it out. It was the next to latest chapter in Doom's struggle against hell...

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Yes. It's a story as fun to read as ever. Great manipulation the whole way.

[DoctorDoom]

It's hard to go wrong with a good Doctor Doom story, yeah.
You're damn right!

[CMBMOOL]

I always come VERY close to buying it but I keep thinking that Marvel is going to do a collection including this graphic novel (with better paper). If I can find it for a good price I'll give it a go though.

I found myself dealing with the same thing at my LCS. As this story proves that somehow even though he lost, Dr. Doom sort of did have the last laugh on the heroes and making them question their actions. :evilsmile:

[marvell2100]

I have the novel and it is a very good read. This was a better vehicle for Simon than Doom even though he ruled the world but I always felt this Simon's best moment was when he went up against Michael/Korvac and finally overcoming his fear. He really took it to M/K and gave the others time to get back into the fight. I guess you could say that Simon has twice saved the world as we know it.

[XPac]

I have the novel and it is a very good read. This was a better vehicle for Simon than Doom even though he ruled the world but I always felt this Simon's best moment was when he went up against Michael/Korvac and finally overcoming his fear. He really took it to M/K and gave the others time to get back into the fight. I guess you could say that Simon has twice saved the world as we know it.

Yeah, that's something that's very overlooked when people discuss this story.

It's not just a vehicle for Doom... it's a vehicle for Wonderman. And as a Wonder Man fan, I can honestly say there aren't too many of those in comics. It's not everyday Simon gets the spotlight treatment.

As both a Doom fan and a Wonder Man fan, this story was definately a rare treat for me.

[Will.S]

I found myself dealing with the same thing at my LCS. As this story proves that somehow even though he lost, Dr. Doom sort of did have the last laugh on the heroes and making them question their actions. :evilsmile:
I found a copy of the OGN a few years ago myself! Didn't regret it one bit, especially since they still haven't re-released it. I spoke to Bob Hall yesterday at the NYCC '10 and wow, I'm an even bigger fan now. Not only is he a cool guy but his art sketch/self inked work is fantastic.

Check these out:

http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8798/10091514.jpg

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/3168/10091511a.jpg


I have the novel and it is a very good read. This was a better vehicle for Simon than Doom even though he ruled the world but I always felt this Simon's best moment was when he went up against Michael/Korvac and finally overcoming his fear. He really took it to M/K and gave the others time to get back into the fight. I guess you could say that Simon has twice saved the world as we know it.


Yeah, that's something that's very overlooked when people discuss this story.

It's not just a vehicle for Doom... it's a vehicle for Wonderman. And as a Wonder Man fan, I can honestly say there aren't too many of those in comics. It's not everyday Simon gets the spotlight treatment.

As both a Doom fan and a Wonder Man fan, this story was definately a rare treat for me.
I definitely worked really well as a Simon story even if he was the unlikely protagonist in some ways. Would love to see more done with him these days.

[turtletrekker]

"My greatest flaw- I surround myself with idiots."

--Victor von Doom, Emperor Doom
:biggrin:

[TonyStark1012]

I've never had a chance to read this, but it does sound like a great story. I've always loved Wonder Man and it's nice to hear he shined in this novel. I'll definitely be on the lookout for it.

[paulski]

Does anyone recall a similar graphic novel that was published about the same time called IIRC "The Revenge of the Living Monolith"? As I recall, that was as big a story as Emperor Doom, and actually changed the status of a Marvel character or villian... But didn't necessary stick.

I think I bought them both.
What did you think?

I actually liked Living Monolith more than Emperor Doom at the time - I think it was because of the artwork (although I can't recall who the artist was just at the moment).

Of course, neither compares to the brilliance of the She-Hulk Graphic Novel by Byrne. Just gorgeous stuff - some of his very best work.

[Iron Maiden]

Definitely one to pick up because I think every character is handled just so perfectly in this story. Well, maybe Hulk or Luke Cage fans might not be too thrilled with it. I always think of it as Doom getting a bit of payback on Luke since now he has him working for him without pay...


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/DoomBodyGuards.jpg

[marvell2100]

Doom really wants people to choose him as their leader. It's not as satisfying if they're brainwashed into servitude. He wants to conquer hearts and minds as well as bodies.

[XPac]

Definitely one to pick up because I think every character is handled just so perfectly in this story. Well, maybe Hulk or Luke Cage fans might not be too thrilled with it. I always think of it as Doom getting a bit of payback on Luke since now he has him working for him without pay...


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/DoomBodyGuards.jpg

It is sort of giving Luke props though. He literally had the entire world at his disposal, but he chose Hulk (an obvious choice) and Cage to be his personal body guards.

[Shawn Hopkins]

I recently read this and loved it. Wanted to get some feedback, though. Of course there's the great scene where Doom kinda gives up and lets Namor smash his machine, but do you think he really had a choice? I'm not sure nerve gas could have stopped an enraged Avenging Son in time, and even if it could have, Wonder Man, who doesn't need to breathe, is in the same room. Iron Man probably would have survived too. Either could have broke the crystal and destroyed Doom's means of control.

[XPac]

I recently read this and loved it. Wanted to get some feedback, though. Of course there's the great scene where Doom kinda gives up and lets Namor smash his machine, but do you think he really had a choice? I'm not sure nerve gas could have stopped an enraged Avenging Son in time, and even if it could have, Wonder Man, who doesn't need to breathe, is in the same room. Iron Man probably would have survived too. Either could have broke the crystal and destroyed Doom's means of control.

If DOom believed it could have stopped them, then he probably had good reason to believe it.

He might have been wrong, as a good percentage of villain death traps do seem to fail, but I'll wager there were real teeth behind the threat.

[Shawn Hopkins]

If DOom believed it could have stopped them, then he probably had good reason to believe it.

He might have been wrong, as a good percentage of villain death traps do seem to fail, but I'll wager there were real teeth behind the threat.

Well, his plan was nerve gas and it seemed to be a failsafe if Namor went rogue. That would have no effect on Wonder Man, and he'd just smashed his way through all of Doom's machines.

[Jason Abbadon]

In my opinion,Doom felt bored because he conquered the world using Purple Man's power.I believe that Doom wants to conquer the world after beating his enemies and achieve victory by force.It's like a video game.It's more sweet to win a game clearly rather than using cheat codes.The use of Purple Man is like using cheats while playing a game.


I agree...but I also think Doom's gone a little nuts since this happened- the Doom of today is a lot less honorable and a lot more evil.
He's been through a wringer since this story came out, and I can see him getting crazy and mean as result- but I cant see Doom being such a benign ruler if this happened in today's Mavel.

Also, I thought it was pretty clear that the Purple Man died in this- he was not seen for at least a decade afterwards, I think.

It is sort of giving Luke props though. He literally had the entire world at his disposal, but he chose Hulk (an obvious choice) and Cage to be his personal body guards.

Doom fears nothing...except a discrimination lawsuit. Sweet Christmas, that would have been a windfall...

[Finganforn]

I believe it. Sometimes wanting is better than having. Or as George Alec Effinger once wrote (as near as I can remember), for every beautiful woman, there is a guy who is sick of her dirty underwear on the floor. Yeah, now it is all clear to me now. It explains all the times he lost when, had him succeed, he would reach the end of the game. Cause we know, good old Doc is too good, he loses cause he wants to! He purposely loses it so that he can still play the game, there would be no fun in wining and wiping his enemies. Ye know what they say, it is not about the destination but the travel. Once he sees he is going to stomp everyone, he folds and 'loses' so his enemies survive to play again later. Crazy old Doc.

[Finganforn]

I found myself dealing with the same thing at my LCS. As this story proves that somehow even though he lost, Dr. Doom sort of did have the last laugh on the heroes and making them question their actions. :evilsmile:

On a serious post, that is one of my preferred uses for Doom. It is one of those that makes him worth his name. Doesn't matter if he genuinely win or not, once you get on his way you're Doomed one way or the other. That is the kind of stuff that scares people, even if they believe they would win in the end, the only thing they know is that they are going to lose somehow.

[Skaddix]

Doom fears nothing...except a discrimination lawsuit. Sweet Christmas, that would have been a windfall...

Yeah, he already knows Cage has no problem demanding money from him.

[ShaunN]

I'll have to get this story. I'm a Wonder Man fan myself, and it's good to hear that the character was finally used well, for once (though I have some hopes for how he is being used in the current "Children's Crusade").

One thing: I think the recent Dr. Doom/Black Panther mini-series (can't recall the title right now) established that Doom's desire to rule the world has always been about his sincere belief (and possibly totally correct belief) that humanity will destroy itself if it is not ruled by a firm hand. This implies that he does not want to rule the world for the sake of power of self-aggrandizement - presumably, these motivations would have led to his destruction by the Panther God/Bal - but that he genuinely wants to save the world. That may mean that he gets bored doing it, but sees world-conquering more as an unfortunate duty.

Second, I think that free-will is overrated. Most people in the world would give up "free will" (which most people don't really exericise anyway) if they could be guaranteed security, food, shelter and a decent standard of living. Look at how easily Americans gave up their civil rights after 9-11 in exchange for "security".

[Finganforn]

Second, I think that free-will is overrated. Most people in the world would give up "free will" (which most people don't really exericise anyway) if they could be guaranteed security, food, shelter and a decent standard of living. Look at how easily Americans gave up their civil rights after 9-11 in exchange for "security".

Reminds me of Aristotles on Greek's slavery (which was pretty much our 'free labor' today, with some tweaks).

Not just for those things, but one more internal also seems to come up frequently, and is base of even some religions: free will, or 'discerning good vs right' comes together with the notion of being responsible for causing events, good or bad, and the annoying feeling of guilty. I used to 'deal' with lots of people in similar positions (for lack of a better word and spare everyone from very boring story). Some people take very badly the 'this is your fault' feeling. They freak out if you try to make them see how an outcome that they consider bad was their responsibility (some freak out quite visually). Getting to the part where you explain/discuss with them how to become better to avoid the same problem from happening is considerably difficult, some will martyr themselves after/during that part "oh, I am never good enough for you/them/whatever" and shit like that.

[Nefarius]

Second, I think that free-will is overrated. Most people in the world would give up "free will" (which most people don't really exericise anyway) if they could be guaranteed security, food, shelter and a decent standard of living. Look at how easily Americans gave up their civil rights after 9-11 in exchange for "security".

The problem lacks to succession.One totalitarian leader may be benevolent,but no one guarantees that his successor would be that good.For example,Octavian manage to concetrate enough power and becoming "de facto" the first emperor of Rome.His rule,while dictatorial,was benevolent and lead into a great prosperity for the Roman world.But his successors,were mostly incompetent and sociopathic rulers.

[Iron Maiden]

I agree...but I also think Doom's gone a little nuts since this happened- the Doom of today is a lot less honorable and a lot more evil.
He's been through a wringer since this story came out, and I can see him getting crazy and mean as result- but I cant see Doom being such a benign ruler if this happened in today's Marvel.

I think the tipping point was Waid's "Unthinkable". I've always said that it is a great FF story but not necessarily a great Doom story. It came at a peculiar juncture in their relationship....Doom had just punked Reed several times in a row and pretty significantly. In Claremont's FF, he got Sue, Ben and Johnny on his side when he needed to get his armor back. Reed was seen to be very traumatized by that in Louise Simonson's FF annual that was a follow up to that. He had a hard time dealing with Sue's actions but eventually he came around. Then when Reed was captured by the Hidden Ones just as Sue was about to deliver, she started to go through some severe crisis that threatened the lives of both her and baby Val. Doom did what Reed failed to do when it happened with Sue's miscarriage by delivering the child safely by using magic and science combined. This is something I wonder if Hickman will use to explain the crazy ramp up of her IQ but in any case, Doom got to see Sue up close and personal :eek:

Then in "Unthinkable", he just suddenly decides he's going to attack again. Most of the time, attacking the FF is usually a bonus to some other scheme but here there's was just some vaguely mentioned scheme with the Haazareth demons. Much like Millar's Doom story though, you really don't see much mention of some of the events these days. And I don't even want to get started on Valeria's death in that.



Also, I thought it was pretty clear that the Purple Man died in this- he was not seen for at least a decade afterwards, I think.

I think he was used somewhere even before Bendis did in Alias but I can't remember where.


Doom fears nothing...except a discrimination lawsuit. Sweet Christmas, that would have been a windfall...

The funny thing is that the Luke Cage HFH story was mentioned in one of Brian Cronin's Year of Cool Comics columns. (http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/06/03/a-year-of-cool-comics-day-154/) I had mentioned how there was a Damage Control story where it appeared that Doom had not payed his bill but it turned out to be an employee that was skimming money. If you scroll down, you see McDuffie himself answered:

"My Damage Control story ” When Doom Defaults!” was a direct response to this one, which I hated as a child. Doom fires his assistant, who is relieved that he wasn’t killed."


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Damage%20Control/DamageControl1_pg14.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Damage%20Control/DamageControl1_pg15.jpg

[Nefarius]

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Damage%20Control/DamageControl1_pg14.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y195/IronMaiden99/MB%20comic%20Scans/Damage%20Control/DamageControl1_pg15.jpg

Somehow,i hear Vince McMahon's voice in this story(especially "You're fired" part).:eek:

[Jason Abbadon]

Somehow,i hear Vince McMahon's voice in this story(especially "You're fired" part).:eek:I hear Mr. Burness voice.
Followed by thte obligatory gasp.

[Iron Maiden]

Somehow,i hear Vince McMahon's voice in this story(especially "You're fired" part).:eek:

I think Donald Trump may have been inspired by this scene and to used it for his schtick on "The Apprentice"

[Finganforn]

Then when Reed was captured by the Hidden Ones just as Sue was about to deliver, she started to go through some severe crisis that threatened the lives of both her and baby Val. Doom did what Reed failed to do when it happened with Sue's miscarriage by delivering the child safely by using magic and science combined. This is something I wonder if Hickman will use to explain the crazy ramp up of her IQ but in any case, Doom got to see Sue up close and personal :eek:

Told ya all before, only satisfying (and half logical) solution to that is along these lines:

*Apparent Reed's victory with Val's help over whatever*
Doom: Yet, you owe me your very happiness and triumph. Without me, your daughter wouldn't be. In part, I am as much her father as you.
Reed: She is my daughter, you have no part, you are crazy, Victor! Stay away from her, if I ever discover you have done any other tricks on her, you are going to regret it.
D: I already do and from this day I remove my blessings as I am her father no more. She is now truly only yours.
R: What--?
-Doom vanishes. From that day on Val becomes a very common child, just a little more immature than her age.

I am going to change my pants, I just wet myself imagining Richards screaming in a locked room in pain.