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View Full Version : Ghostbusting Through Psychotherapy, or Reality Wins Out Over Superstition Yet Again


JeffreyWKramer
01-12-2007, 02:26 PM
As always, when I talk at all about my work, some information in the following account is changed, and a lot is omitted, for purposes of confidentiality and in order to preserve client privacy.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, when first posting, that (as is sadly common when I discuss my work) this case discussion does include some rather graphic comment. Those easily distressed by discussion of trauma should read with caution.

A client I’ve been working with for a short while brought up something rather different during one of her most recent appointments. She stated at the outset that she was reluctant to talk about it, for fear I’d think her nuts – or “even more nuts,” in her typically self-deprecating manner. Finally, though, she came out with it.

“I think the place I moved into is haunted.”

She stated that she’s never really thought much one way or another about ghosts, but how, since moving in to a different home right at the end of December, she’s been experiencing lots of unusual feelings and sensations. She said that while she was in the process of moving in, she “picked up bad vibes – what a cliché,” in one room, and got the sensation of “an evil presence” in another. She said she’d occasionally get a chill or a sense of dread or “a déjà vu sort of feeling”, and that since moving in, she’s had more trouble than usual sleeping, and more nightmares than usual – this from someone that suffers from chronic insomnia, partly due to chronic nightmares, in the first place. She admitted she felt silly thinking about this as “ghosts or evil spirits”, but that she felt very troubled, didn’t know what to do, and thought she might have to move.

When she asked me what I thought about this, I told her I wanted to hear a lot more about these experiences and feelings… where did she feel these various things, and what were these places in the house like, and more specifics about the feelings and sensations. As she answered those questions, the pieces started falling into place – for me, and in fairly short order also for her – and it turned out, not surprisingly, that what she was dealing with was not ghosts at all, but rather something all too real.

This client came to me with complaints of chronic depression, feelings of inadequacy and difficulty trusting and opening up to others, all of these relating strongly to an experience of lots of abuse while growing up, most prominently by a rather sadistic older brother. Said abuse was psychological, sexual and physical in nature. Somewhat amazingly, given the trauma she experienced, she didn’t qualify for a formal diagnosis of PTSD – no flashbacks, not much in the way of intrusive memories, not enough of various other symptoms to qualify for that diagnosis – but she did have a lot of nightmares and was both very jumpy and very sensitive regarding personal space, and she sometimes thought more than usual about her past, and became unusually depressed, when something reminded her of or forced her to think about her past abuse experiences. Mostly, though, her abuse impacted how she thought about herself and how she'd learned to relate to others - or failed to do so - more than it involved direct intrusion of unpleasant thoughts and feelings into her day-to-day life.

As I got her talking about her new home and these strange feelings and sensations, and describing various aspects of the new house and whether there were any elements to the place – and to the specific rooms where she got these odd sensations - that reminded her of her unfortunate childhood experiences, it quickly became apparent that she was haunted not by the spirits of the dead or by malevolent demonic entities, but rather by subtle reminders of her past abuse – a walk-in pantry that closely resembled the big closet in which she was sometimes abused, the low-ceilinged upstairs bedroom that reminded her of the guest room over the garage where she was sometimes taken for rape sessions, the dark corner of one room that recalled how dark her brother had always kept his room, etc. It didn’t take very many questions for that proverbial light to come on in her head.

From there, we talked about what she could do about this. I suggested two things: 1) when experiencing these sensations, focus on grounding herself in the here and now by focusing on things other than the sensations, and on reminding herself that the place she was in now, while reminding her of the past, was not the same place, and 2) working on changing the appearance of problem parts of the home via decorating, repainting, changing lighting and so on. At her most recent appointment – this week – she reported that she’d followed through with these sensations, and that they seemed to be working wonderfully, because the “haunting” sensations had stopped completely. She said, though, that even before she did most of the redecorating, just being aware that this was just a case of subtle cues triggering below-the-surface memories seemed to make all the difference in the world. When she got home from that earlier session, she was able to face things as for what they were, because the sensations, no longer being mysterious, were still unpleasant but not really scary.

Now, this sort of thing doesn’t even come close to explaining all the things that people experience as possible encounters with ghosts or the supernatural, but I’m nonetheless guessing such psychological factors count for at very least a good chunk of such reports. I’m also thinking that a lot of people could be spared a lot of pain and confusion - not to mention a lot of flim-flammers and frauds put out of business - if more people weren’t predisposed, by lots of cultural factors, to think of more real-world, naturalistic explanations rather than jumping immediately to supernatural oogy-boogy explanations for any weird and unpleasant experiences.

StoneGold
01-12-2007, 02:32 PM
While I'm not suggesting there is or isn't an afterlife, your selection sample for proving this kind of sucks. You mean to say that a client, who comes to you because they are crazy, is crazy? What are the odds.

And I will punch you in the face if you demean the work of Drs. Venkman, Stanz, Spengler and Mr. Zedmore.

Chris Nowlin
01-12-2007, 03:02 PM
Sounds like a job well done, Jeffrey.

Chris Nowlin
01-12-2007, 03:07 PM
While I'm not suggesting there is or isn't an afterlife, your selection sample for proving this kind of sucks. You mean to say that a client, who comes to you because they are crazy, is crazy? What are the odds.

And I will punch you in the face if you demean the work of Drs. Venkman, Stanz, Spengler and Mr. Zedmore.

Not even sure the point was that there are no ghosts, but that the client's instinctive assumption was that her feelings were caused by ghosts rather than psychological factors, and that this is a nonproductive mindset to have; yet it is mindset encouraged by the various superstitions that predominate our culture.

JeffreyWKramer
01-12-2007, 04:11 PM
Not even sure the point was that there are no ghosts, but that the client's instinctive assumption was that her feelings were caused by ghosts rather than psychological factors, and that this is a nonproductive mindset to have; yet it is mindset encouraged by the various superstitions that predominate our culture.

Bing bing bing!

Mind you, I do not believe that ghosts, spirits or any of that shit actually exists. Since one can't conclusively prove such things don't exist, one can argue that the possibility cannot be entirely tossed out, but even then, it's certainly damned remote, and absolutely does not deserve to be the automatic conclusion - or even hypothesis - one jumps to whenever one has some odd experience. Given that reports of such phenomena so routinely turn out to be due to psychological factors, or hoaxes, or really pretty much anything other than the supernatural, if one is going to jump to any conclusion at all, the logical, reality-based conclusion would be "something natural." Unfortunately, the supernaturalist mindset is one so ingrained into culture that whenever anything not immediately explicable occurs, all too many people conclude - or at least suspect - some sort of supernatural nonsense right from the start.

Logically, this is rather like noticing that one is missing a sock and concluding that it must have been stolen by some foreign government agent - possible, but certainly horribly unlikely - rather than assuming that the sock is still in one's laundry hamper or under the bed or some other, vastly more likely scenario.

JeffreyWKramer
01-12-2007, 04:19 PM
Sounds like a job well done, Jeffrey.

Thank you.

Work has been astoundingly busy the past couple weeks (one reason why I've not posted much of late, other than in the strangely entrancing Olney thread), but an unusual amount of my therapy sessions during this time have been both quite interesting and very productive. The work with this particular client is perhaps the most unusual case, but a lot of my clients have made some great strides of late. This is often the case after the holidays, since the holidays often force people to deal with family in one way or another and so many problems are rooted in family dynamics and experiences.

Iangould
01-12-2007, 06:17 PM
In other words, if you can demonstrate that psychotherapy is a more effective way of dealling with "ghosts" than exorcism or other traditional approaches does it really matter whether the ghosts are the spirits of the dead, demons, butt-probing aliens or the product of psychological problems?

Rabid Trekkie
01-12-2007, 06:23 PM
Man, that sort of sounds like this lady that was in my creative writing class two semesters ago. She thinks some girl is haunting her house and helping her with her writing. Apparently one of her daughters has seen it, but only after the lady mentioned it.

darkkeeperjr
01-12-2007, 07:17 PM
Well done! When the lady first started talking about her house, how long or how many sessions did it take before you or her realized what was "haunting" her?

Corrina
01-12-2007, 07:37 PM
There's a university professor in Scotland who is trying to take a scientific approach to ghost hunting.

In the documentary I watched (maybe on History International?), he sent people who were completely unfamiliar with a series of haunted tunnels, gave them notebooks, and asked them to write down their impressions/emotions/sensations as they experienced them.

What he found was that the 'haunted' areas showed up as the areas most likely to be pegged by the people in the experiments as making them uncomfortable, or where they felt cold, or felt like they were being watched.

This did not make the professor conclude the tunnels must be haunted.

He speculated that these areas tended to trigger deep fears, fears that might be embedded in our group memories. Fears of things like dark areas that have no exit, etc.

It sounds like your client experienced something a little more specific to her own memories, but it sounds like the general concept is the same.

JeffreyWKramer
01-12-2007, 08:11 PM
Well done! When the lady first started talking about her house, how long or how many sessions did it take before you or her realized what was "haunting" her?

Everything I noted above, except for the stuff from the more recent appointment (this week) happened in the same session, the one right after she moved into the new home - her ghost reports, my asking her about the new place and how some of the details she mentioned compared to her childhood home, her realization that what she was experiencing wasn't "ghosts" but rather emotional reactions to reminders of old trauma, my suggestions how to deal with this problem, etc. It was a pretty busy session, and a very productive one.

JeffreyWKramer
01-12-2007, 08:14 PM
In other words, if you can demonstrate that psychotherapy is a more effective way of dealling with "ghosts" than exorcism or other traditional approaches does it really matter whether the ghosts are the spirits of the dead, demons, butt-probing aliens or the product of psychological problems?

Well, I think it matters. One wouldn't logically think psychotherapy would do anything to actual "entities" that were haunting a home. If after a session, someone decides a tiger isn't real, and it actually is real, disbelief won't stop the person from being bit.

Of course, "logically think" doesn't really apply to these sorts of beliefs, anyhow. I suppose some believer could concoct some nonsense idea about how her nonbelief protects her from the ghosts or something along those lines.

JeffreyWKramer
01-12-2007, 08:22 PM
There's a university professor in Scotland who is trying to take a scientific approach to ghost hunting.

In the documentary I watched (maybe on History International?), he sent people who were completely unfamiliar with a series of haunted tunnels, gave them notebooks, and asked them to write down their impressions/emotions/sensations as they experienced them.

What he found was that the 'haunted' areas showed up as the areas most likely to be pegged by the people in the experiments as making them uncomfortable, or where they felt cold, or felt like they were being watched.

This did not make the professor conclude the tunnels must be haunted.

He speculated that these areas tended to trigger deep fears, fears that might be embedded in our group memories. Fears of things like dark areas that have no exit, etc.

It sounds like your client experienced something a little more specific to her own memories, but it sounds like the general concept is the same.

Yeah, I strongly suspect that a lot of supposed "hauntings" and such are simply the result of stimuli and events triggering either old memories, (possibly on an unconscious level, such that the person only gets sensations or emotional reactions, rather than full memories) or archetypal reactions (either natural, in the case of "dark places", or learned, via horror movies and suc). Some folk have suggested that something similar may be at work in deja vu reports.

This obviously wouldn't explain everything that people report as "hauntings" - supposed appearances of apparitions (unless they somehow reflect the person's own memories, perhaps as a sort of flashback - but this doesn't seem to fit most classical accounts of such things), poltergeist stuff, etc. But I think it probably explains a lot of the stories of people sensing "evil presences" and the like.

Michael P
01-12-2007, 09:03 PM
Yeah, I strongly suspect that a lot of supposed "hauntings" and such are simply the result of stimuli and events triggering either old memories, (possibly on an unconscious level, such that the person only gets sensations or emotional reactions, rather than full memories) or archetypal reactions (either natural, in the case of "dark places", or learned, via horror movies and suc). Some folk have suggested that something similar may be at work in deja vu reports.

This obviously wouldn't explain everything that people report as "hauntings" - supposed appearances of apparitions (unless they somehow reflect the person's own memories, perhaps as a sort of flashback - but this doesn't seem to fit most classical accounts of such things), poltergeist stuff, etc. But I think it probably explains a lot of the stories of people sensing "evil presences" and the like.

Sounds plausible, but it wouldn't explain one story I've witnessed.

Just sayin'.

Paul McEnery
01-13-2007, 05:34 AM
Bing bing bing!

Mind you, I do not believe that ghosts, spirits or any of that shit actually exists. Since one can't conclusively prove such things don't exist, one can argue that the possibility cannot be entirely tossed out, but even then, it's certainly damned remote, and absolutely does not deserve to be the automatic conclusion - or even hypothesis - one jumps to whenever one has some odd experience. Given that reports of such phenomena so routinely turn out to be due to psychological factors, or hoaxes, or really pretty much anything other than the supernatural, if one is going to jump to any conclusion at all, the logical, reality-based conclusion would be "something natural." Unfortunately, the supernaturalist mindset is one so ingrained into culture that whenever anything not immediately explicable occurs, all too many people conclude - or at least suspect - some sort of supernatural nonsense right from the start.

Logically, this is rather like noticing that one is missing a sock and concluding that it must have been stolen by some foreign government agent - possible, but certainly horribly unlikely - rather than assuming that the sock is still in one's laundry hamper or under the bed or some other, vastly more likely scenario.

So long as you don't tell us the underpants gnomes don't exist.

Paul McEnery
01-13-2007, 05:42 AM
Yeah, I strongly suspect that a lot of supposed "hauntings" and such are simply the result of stimuli and events triggering either old memories, (possibly on an unconscious level, such that the person only gets sensations or emotional reactions, rather than full memories) or archetypal reactions (either natural, in the case of "dark places", or learned, via horror movies and suc). Some folk have suggested that something similar may be at work in deja vu reports.

This obviously wouldn't explain everything that people report as "hauntings" - supposed appearances of apparitions (unless they somehow reflect the person's own memories, perhaps as a sort of flashback - but this doesn't seem to fit most classical accounts of such things), poltergeist stuff, etc. But I think it probably explains a lot of the stories of people sensing "evil presences" and the like.

Yeah, I think most of this stuff is either memory related or to do with pathological spaces. I've known some churches that would make even diehard atheist you feel uplifted. And I've know one in particular that had very bad juju.

I figure ghost stories and what have you as a story-based way of articulating what bothers you, especially if you're quite sensitive to that sort of thing. And of course we tend to personalize that stuff, because it makes it easier to get your head round it.

All of which fails to explain stuff like the feeling that a forest is inhabited or for that matter isn't, and in my experience, that has to do with people having lived there. And I've a fair amount of experience with older houses that have the same feeling. Somehow, I think we leave residue in places, but why some places get it and some don't, that I haven't got the faintest about. And I'm sure there's a material explanation for it, but we just don't have the tools for it yet.

Valmore
01-13-2007, 05:11 PM
All of which fails to explain stuff like the feeling that a forest is inhabited or for that matter isn't, and in my experience, that has to do with people having lived there. And I've a fair amount of experience with older houses that have the same feeling. Somehow, I think we leave residue in places, but why some places get it and some don't, that I haven't got the faintest about. And I'm sure there's a material explanation for it, but we just don't have the tools for it yet.

I'm fascinated with dilapidated, abandoned buildings, and I'm not sure why. I think they makes me wonder what happened there and why the building was abandoned and left in such a state of disrepair.

Solaris
01-13-2007, 05:37 PM
Thank you.

Work has been astoundingly busy the past couple weeks (one reason why I've not posted much of late, other than in the strangely entrancing Olney thread), but an unusual amount of my therapy sessions during this time have been both quite interesting and very productive. The work with this particular client is perhaps the most unusual case, but a lot of my clients have made some great strides of late. This is often the case after the holidays, since the holidays often force people to deal with family in one way or another and so many problems are rooted in family dynamics and experiences.

Knowing you and how you work with clients, I'm sure that you didn't "lead her on" with this, and I'm glad that you were able to help her pin down, well, actually TRACK down the memories that were causing her feelings. And certainly changing the lighting, paint, decor, etc. in those areas is a VERY good idea.

Had that not been the case, or if that alone didn't take care of the problem for her, I personally would've suggested one or the other of two things:

1. If she remained unconvinced that it was subconsious memory and similarities that gave her the feelings, then perhaps a blessing by whatever religious authority she may follow would help. Whether or not it actually does anything, the *idea* that someone of her belief has asked for blessing in an area might relieve her mind, and the symptoms, and make her feel those areas are comfortable and protected.

2. Placing well-loved objects and art, particularly ones that give her a feeling of "love and protection" and/or "calmness/serenity", would also be good, in the "makeover" aspect. In fact, she still might want to do this. Examples might be pictures of someone from her childhood that she sees as a protector, pictures of something calm like a lake, pictures of something that's beautiful to her, etc. It doesn't have to be just pictures; it can be things like sculpture, decorative light fixtures, etc. Anything that gives her a good feeling, to combat the bad ones the space originally engendered. Before long, she won't even remember that the space felt "bad" to her, if she does a good enough makeover.

EDIT: I add the latter because we're very much into how a room "feels." We watch a lot of HGTV home decorating, makeovers, etc... because we learn a lot about giving a room the "mood" we want it to have, and some really neat (and often inexpensive) tricks for doing so. Plus, renovating an area of your new house to your own taste helps to make it more "your own."