Thunderbolts #110 - Review and Spoilers

[Brian Cronin]

Perhaps the most impressive aspect of Thunderbolts #110 to me is the fact that Warren Ellis makes good use of the back story of both Jack Flag AND Moonstone, two characters I would completely understand if Ellis had never read anything about in his life. I think that he could have easily written a fine story withOUT knowing their backstory, but the fact that he wrote a fine story while also utilizing the back story of a silly patriotic character from Captain America who has not made an appearance in more than a decade and a minor (although not so minor in the context of the Thunderbolts) supervillain, well, that is an impressive writing feat.

Past readers of the Thunderbolts are in an interesting position with this issue, because Ellis manages to start the book over in such a way that there is little to no reference to what was going on in the book beforehand, but at the same time, Ellis makes sure to not do anything really to contradict the previous run - it's a clever job by him.

There are a few "big leaps of logic" in the story, namely that the US people would be SOOO quick to buy fully into the concept of the Thunderbolts (to the point of having toys where the heroic Thunderbolts hunt down rogue superheroes). It makes for some great satire, except that it appears as though Ellis is almost playing it STRAIGHT, which I think is a pretty big leap. There's obviously the satirical aspect (particularly the toy commercial, which features a Captain America figure who screams), but there are times when it appears like this is also meant to be taken seriously.

Also, while it is doubtful they ever intend to make good on it, offering Bullseye a chance at freedom seems a bit sketchy.

There are many touches of humor, which is good to see.

Otherwise, this is a top notch job of writing by Ellis, especially as it is made up almost entirely of talking heads and character back and forth (the opening dialogue between Norman Osborn and Bullseye is great, especially how it uses Daredevil continuity in exactly the right way to use continuity - if you remember the story it refers to, you think - "wow, nice touch" - if you don't, then you get enough from the story to understand it anyways).

The real triumph is the job Ellis does with Jack Flag. He handles the silliness of Jack Flag perfectly, by acknowledging it, but never having the story AGREE with the silliness. I thought that was simply brilliant. To get the audience to totally buy into the heroism of Jack Flag is quite a feat.

The artwork by Mike Deodato was not good, but I did not find myself distracted too much, especially as, like I said, most of the story was people sitting around and talking, and it is difficult for the art to mess with that all that much (nice cover by Marko Djurdjevic).

Penance did basically nothing in this issue, so we still don't know how Ellis is going to handle him (satire or straight up).

All in all, this was a strong first issue for Warren Ellis on Thunderbolts. I am looking forward to seeing what he does with these characters, even with the poor artwork slowing him down a bit.

Recommended.

[Karl O'Neill]

i was planning on picking this up tommorow, artwork poor? i just mite give it a miss, i'll decide tommorow in the shop while flicking thru it,

Thanks for the review

[Karl H]

Sounds good to me... I can see this being slightly better as a nice premiere hard cover though (please don't shoot me down for that!!!)

[foxfire]

Yeah, there's so many things wrong about the premise... So instead of just using other registered heroes to hunt down the ones on the run, the government turns to supervillains. And not just any, but guys like Venom and Bullseye. How is what they're doing any different than what Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man did, for example, in chasing down Spider-Woman? Why have this whole eloborate set up, with the enormously intricate mountain headquarters and paying Moonstone a freaking million dollars a month (from the taxpayers' pockets, no doubt :D) to head up the operation? Seems to me guys like Arana and Ms. Marvel, who have already registered, could do just as well for much cheaper and without resorting to known murderers and criminals.

And I also agree that the public being that quick to embrace the T-Bolts is just weird. What parent in MU America would buy their child action figures of Venom to beat up an action figure of Cap?

[Mideon]

I wish more happened. Also, how is Venom secure with just shackles on his arms? His symbiote can do all sorts of crazy sh*t.

[StoneGold]

I wish more happened. Also, how is Venom secure with just shackles on his arms? His symbiote can do all sorts of crazy sh*t.

Remember the countermeasures mention? He's got some kind of toxin in him keeping him sedate.

[MAK15]

I liked the toy commercials, those were funny.
also, cant wait to see Venom break loose next ish.
anohter thing, its great that this team finally has some villains I recognize, like Venom and Bullseye. although it dont look like Norman will be going to the field any time soon. shame if you ask me.

[StoneGold]

Did anyone else get a real Robocop vibe from the book? I mean, apart from the media breaks and the commercials, just in the tone? Satire played extremely straight? Where it ironically becomes (or at least in this case, has the potential to become) one of the best examples of the things it was satirizing?

[Cayman]

Although it was really good, I was a little disappointed in this issue because we didn't get to see very much of the team itself. It's promising though and I look forward to future issues. The action figure page was a lot of fun. I want a screaming Captain America action figure.

I hope against hope that Jack Flag lives. He seems cool.

[saintsaucey]

I loved the art. where do i recognise it from. Could norman have looked more like Tommy Lee Jones. The issue was great though honestly i spaced on the toy comercial thing until i read the comments on this board and had to go back to see it.

good issue i like how there is a built in limit of one year of service.

[StoneGold]

Although it was really good, I was a little disappointed in this issue because we didn't get to see very much of the team itself. It's promising though and I look forward to future issues. The action figure page was a lot of fun. I want a screaming Captain America action figure.

I hope against hope that Jack Flag lives. He seems cool.

If you've read the original stories, you'd know he isn't.
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/14462577792.434.GIF

[Sparda]

Lol Jack flagg dyed his hair in different colors. I enjoyed this issue quite alot and hope to see plenty of action on the next issue. Norman being boss is a scary thought with the rep he has and now I'd like to see how flagg holds out on the new Thunderbolts team. They consider Bullseye to be very dangerous and have him as a last resort and I think if venom was STILL Eddie Brock, they'd be very careful with him seeing as he see's himself as a hero and protecting innocents.

Hope to see Osborn in action in the future.

[Cayman]

If you've read the original stories, you'd know he isn't.
http://image.milehighcomics.com/istore/images/fullsize/14462577792.434.GIF

Is he carrying a boombox?

Well, he was cool in this issue at least. Who created him?

[StoneGold]

Mark Gruenwald at the tail end of his life, when he couldn't write his way out of a paper bag. Which is sad, but the truth. And I say this as someone who was basically introduced to comics through Mark's writing.

[caney]

This was a fun start for the new Thunderbolts team. I love how crazily enthusiastic the TV reporters got when the news about the Thunderbolts going into action broke. I'm guessing the public doesn't know the real identity of Penance, but I think it's hilarious that parents all over the US will be buying a Penance action figure for their kids. :)

I'm looking forward to some more interaction between the team members. Should be fun.

[Willminus2]

My fault with this book and the whole of civil war so far has been the writer's assumption that the American public would turn on Captain America so soon. I don't see it, if there was a national hero that was the living embodiment of America I don't see the public going against him especially for a murdering slimeball like Bullseye.

[Lanowar]

Aw someone noticed Norman Osborn looking EXACTLY like Tommy Lee Jones in on that one page. Yea the action figure thing was weird, it does show you how some people will follow anyone with enough spin put on it. That said Cap's "Screaming" voice chip got a laugh from me.

[Kevinroc]

How should I put this. I liked this issue. The basic premise is very... messed-up. Norman stole the show, IMO. Warren Ellis has a great handle on the character.

What surprised me was how much this issue referenced the Thunderbolts continuity. Not just the scene with Bullseye. But I guess any mention of continuity would have surprised me. It was definitely handled in such a way that you could be a new reader and easily follow the story.

The commercial was... hysterical, IMO. I thought it was a rather twisted take on the Civil War story. I will note that Bullseye and Green Goblin were absent from the commercial. Venom was there and of all the current T-Bolts, that should be the one the public is the most concerned about (assuming that Penance's ID is being kept from the public).

It's a twisted series that some may see as being played straight. I actually don't see it being played as completely straight. I liked it.

[StoneGold]

I could end up being wrong here, but I don't think the Tbolts are so much representing murderers taking down heroes, as they do superhumans being controlled by normal, everyday people like us. I may not be able to bench press a bus, but I can be the guy holding the button that can electrocute the guy who can bench press a bus. Which might help to explain their popularity in the MU. They aren't the heroes who could be you!, they're the heroes you can order around who won't blow up a school because they have DNA locks and nanites up the wazoo.

[XPac]

I could end up being wrong here, but I don't think the Tbolts are so much representing murderers taking down heroes, as they do superhumans being controlled by normal, everyday people like us. I may not be able to bench press a bus, but I can be the guy holding the button that can electrocute the guy who can bench press a bus. Which might help to explain their popularity in the MU. They aren't the heroes who could be you!, they're the heroes you can order around who won't blow up a school because they have DNA locks and nanites up the wazoo.

Given the choice, I'd rather have someone that doesn't want to blow up a school bus rather than one that wants to but can't (or rather CAN but would suffer for it). It's not only a gamble, it's almost cruel to the villian.

I need a much better rationale to buy why they're publically accepted.

[StoneGold]

Given the choice, I'd rather have someone that doesn't want to blow up a school bus rather than one that wants to but can't (or rather CAN but would suffer for it). It's not only a gamble, it's almost cruel to the villian.

I need a much better rationale to buy why they're publically accepted.
Yeah, but you don't live in the MU, where control suddenly seems to be a major issue.

[Sean Whitmore]

Disappointed as I am that the team didn't see any action, this was a great start to things. I loved everything about it. The return of Norman's public persona, glimpses to Miller-era Bullseye, "She's demoted. I didn't like her", the exponential severity of the nano-shocks, Screaming Captain America, using existing obscure heroes instead of inventing new ones, and Moonstone back to being scheming.

And while I appreciated the satire behind the robot planes, T-Wagon, and Zeus, it's still a goofy enough idea that I hope it never becomes plot-relevant.

Promising the villains money and a ticket out of the country would annoy me, if I wasn't 95% sure the promises were B.S.

By the by, whatever happened with Lady Deathstrike? Did Ellis just not want her, or did the X-Office want her back, or what?


SEAN

[protege]

It bothered me that the Thunderbolts that were "on board" with this, were treated the same as the more unpredictable ones, with the Shackles and restraints. And i don't really care for the art- Norman Osborn looks like Howdy Doody.

[Sparda]

Disappointed as I am that the team didn't see any action, this was a great start to things. I loved everything about it. The return of Norman's public persona, glimpses to Miller-era Bullseye, "She's demoted. I didn't like her", the exponential severity of the nano-shocks, Screaming Captain America, using existing obscure heroes instead of inventing new ones, and Moonstone back to being scheming.

And while I appreciated the satire behind the robot planes, T-Wagon, and Zeus, it's still a goofy enough idea that I hope it never becomes plot-relevant.

Promising the villains money and a ticket out of the country would annoy me, if I wasn't 95% sure the promises were B.S.

By the by, whatever happened with Lady Deathstrike? Did Ellis just not want her, or did the X-Office want her back, or what?


SEAN
They also forgot to add taskmaster whom was suppobsilby gonna be in the team as well. I guess Deathstrike and Taskmaster are for much later additions.

[StoneGold]

By the by, whatever happened with Lady Deathstrike? Did Ellis just not want her, or did the X-Office want her back, or what?


SEAN

I believe there was a line of dialogue from the newscasters about how this was a relatively small mission launch. Really, how many people do you need to kick the #($* out of Jack Flag? They're probably sitting in reserve.

[Cayman]

I believe there was a line of dialogue from the newscasters about how this was a relatively small mission launch. Really, how many people do you need to kick the #($* out of Jack Flag? They're probably sitting in reserve.

Jack Flagg should have an iPod.

[Sean Whitmore]

They also forgot to add taskmaster whom was suppobsilby gonna be in the team as well. I guess Deathstrike and Taskmaster are for much later additions.

I believe there was a line of dialogue from the newscasters about how this was a relatively small mission launch. Really, how many people do you need to kick the #($* out of Jack Flag? They're probably sitting in reserve.

Forgot about Taskmaster, actually.

I guess I didn't figure that there might be other T-Bolts besides the ones shown this issue, since they've been in all the marketing so far. It certainly makes sense from a story standpoint; I'm just surprised Marvel could resist using Deathstrike on more of their promos.


SEAN

[Sebastian Zero]

Yeah, there's so many things wrong about the premise... So instead of just using other registered heroes to hunt down the ones on the run, the government turns to supervillains. And not just any, but guys like Venom and Bullseye. How is what they're doing any different than what Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man did, for example, in chasing down Spider-Woman? Why have this whole eloborate set up, with the enormously intricate mountain headquarters and paying Moonstone a freaking million dollars a month (from the taxpayers' pockets, no doubt :D) to head up the operation? Seems to me guys like Arana and Ms. Marvel, who have already registered, could do just as well for much cheaper and without resorting to known murderers and criminals.

And I also agree that the public being that quick to embrace the T-Bolts is just weird. What parent in MU America would buy their child action figures of Venom to beat up an action figure of Cap?

Wouldn't Supervillans be perfect for hunting unregistered hero's? I mean, it's not like they'd stop pre-dust up and go 'wait a minute, weren't we on the same side for *insert big 90's cross over event*? or some such. They'll happily get the job done without sentiment or soul searching. Especially Bullseye.

On the second point, hell, everyone loves a redemption story don't they? Like....I-used-to-be-a-deserter-alcoholic-and-drug-addict-then-I-saw-the-light-and now-I-run-the-country kind of thing?



Oh um...first post, hello and all that.

[Kevinroc]

Forgot about Taskmaster, actually.

I guess I didn't figure that there might be other T-Bolts besides the ones shown this issue, since they've been in all the marketing so far. It certainly makes sense from a story standpoint; I'm just surprised Marvel could resist using Deathstrike on some of their promos.


SEAN

Is Deathstrike a hugely marketable character? In comparison to Venom, Bullseye and Norman Osborn?

I know Penance didn't do anything in this issue and the other characters are around to help older Thunderbolts fans (and because Ellis wanted to use them) but I can't see a point that Deathstrike would make people buy this comic.

[ultimatespyder20]

I look forward ro getting this in the mail. Hopefully it will get here tomorrow. I'm glad it sounds like Ellis has done a great first issue. I really look forward to this new team,and seeing how these characters grow throughout the series.

Alec

[Sean Whitmore]

Is Deathstrike a hugely marketable character? In comparison to Venom, Bullseye and Norman Osborn?

I would imagine so. Even if she wasn't one of the main villains of a top-selling X-Man's solo book, the mere fact that she was in X-Men 2 should make her at least as recognizable to the average reader as Bullseye.

SEAN

[Kevinroc]

I would imagine so. Even if she wasn't one of the main villains of a top-selling X-Man's solo book, the mere fact that she was in X-Men 2 should make her at least as recognizable to the average reader as Bullseye.

SEAN

The X-Office strikes me as extremely overprotective of characters. So unless she dies in Civil War #7, I don't think we'll see much of an explanation.

[StoneGold]

I would imagine so. Even if she wasn't one of the main villains of a top-selling X-Man's solo book, the mere fact that she was in X-Men 2 should make her at least as recognizable to the average reader as Bullseye.

SEAN

Kelly Hu might be more recognizable. Kelly Hu looks nothing like how Lady Deathstrike looks. And hasn't been used in a major way in a while. Meanwhile, Bullseye has had a pair of somewhat succesful miniseries in the past couple of years, has had a major role in the last arc of DareDevil, and has a far more recognizable costume.

[MAK15]

This was a fun start for the new Thunderbolts team. I love how crazily enthusiastic the TV reporters got when the news about the Thunderbolts going into action broke. I'm guessing the public doesn't know the real identity of Penance, but I think it's hilarious that parents all over the US will be buying a Penance action figure for their kids. :)

.

lol that is strangely ironic. well, Norman's PR team is good, so I don't think Penance's identity will be revealed any time soon.

[jackolover]

This is a really sick book. Offering Moonstone $1million /month to lead the TBolts. That's bull****. She's a prisoner for life.

This whole thing is too dark. A hovering Norman Osborn, in charge. Bullseye never gets controlled. He controls. He will find a way out of this. Even Songbird gets shackled and tied into her seat? As is Radioactive Man? This is a prison ship, TBolts. And Jack Flagg is a little minnow in a big pond full of piranna.

I don't know how it will work. All those criminals, just to get one hero? Is this a practice match, to see how the team works together? How the nanites can be controlled? I can't see any of this working if there is no freedom to operate. None of these people know each other. It's a recipe for disaster. Oh, but what a self-destructive disaster!

[Lanowar]

Taskmaster's somewhat popular though Deathstrike has been in movies Taskmaster's had more comic time, I suppose though having both Taskmaster AND Swordsman on the same team would not work there both melee users.

That said if this is the tone of Thunderbolts then do somthing about the art and call me later.

[StoneGold]

That said if this is the tone of Thunderbolts then do somthing about the art and call me later.

What do you mean by that? Tbolts has gone through so many different "tones" over the years, I'd be hard pressed to nail down one.

[DMike]

And I also agree that the public being that quick to embrace the T-Bolts is just weird. What parent in MU America would buy their child action figures of Venom to beat up an action figure of Cap?

I need a much better rationale to buy why they're publically accepted.

I'm not even sure they're actually publically accepted myself. All of the indications that they are or might be accepted are all coming from the media (and in one case a blatant Fox News swipe), it's entirely possible the government's using propaganda to further the notion that the Thunderbolts program is a good idea without it necessarily being the case.

[MAK15]

This is a really sick book. Offering Moonstone $1million /month to lead the TBolts. That's bull****. She's a prisoner for life.

This whole thing is too dark. A hovering Norman Osborn, in charge. Bullseye never gets controlled. He controls. He will find a way out of this. Even Songbird gets shackled and tied into her seat? As is Radioactive Man? This is a prison ship, TBolts. And Jack Flagg is a little minnow in a big pond full of piranna.

I don't know how it will work. All those criminals, just to get one hero? Is this a practice match, to see how the team works together? How the nanites can be controlled? I can't see any of this working if there is no freedom to operate. None of these people know each other. It's a recipe for disaster. Oh, but what a self-destructive disaster!

If Norman Osborn can do anything, its too make things work the way he wants it to. Also all the shackled team members make sense, since most of them(like Bullseye) would love to escape. that and they're viscious monsters/people who shouldnt be trusted farther than they can be thrown.
Also having a supervillain book be 'dark' is appropriate, this is something that I didnt like the the other thunderbolts books. This book doesnt have bright colors, it doesnt need 'em, it wouldnt work right for the atmosphere.
Imagine and 'Aliens' book with bright, pastel colors. wouldtn work.
the monsters need dark tones to look villanous, and that's what this team does.

[Sean Whitmore]

Kelly Hu might be more recognizable. Kelly Hu looks nothing like how Lady Deathstrike looks.

Eh, I figure a good shot of her with blade-fingers extended would be enough for most people to make the connection.


SEAN

[Mariah]

I loved the art. where do i recognise it from. Could norman have looked more like Tommy Lee Jones.
OMG, that's what I was thinking when I read this issue too! Especially when he was on the t.v. screen talking about the new team.

[bulbasteve]

I'm not even sure they're actually publically accepted myself. All of the indications that they are or might be accepted are all coming from the media (and in one case a blatant Fox News swipe), it's entirely possible the government's using propaganda to further the notion that the Thunderbolts program is a good idea without it necessarily being the case.

Well according to CW6 there needs to be local approval of any superteam, so Colorodo gave the O.K. to as ****ed up of a team as the Thunderbolts, that has to say a lot for their public support.

Also the Fox Newsish one was AGAINST the idea, they were the ones complaining that Stark gives money to the Dems. Really the whole reform angle seems to be working so far, I mean...someone has to be buying those toys...right?

[Alpow]

I need a much better rationale to buy why they're publically accepted.

Either the MU US public are idiots who will swallow anything the government feeds then or they are ungrateful scum who would rather cheer for a "controlled" sociopath than a free willed national hero.

The super humans are now regarded as little more than caste of people to be ordered about by the government because letting them make their own decision is just too dangerous.

I just look forward to Bullseye getting released (and I wouldn't put it past the MU US government to release him and dump him on somebody else's doorstep) or escaping and painting the town red.

Ridiculous concept, great book though.

[StoneGold]

I just re-read the book. It looks like I was confused about the line I was talking about earlier about multiple ships. Turns out they were just talking about the T-Wagon, which are purely prisoner transports.

[Doom Hammer]

This book reminds me of X-Statix with super-villains. I think I'm going to love it.

And hey, Ellis made Moonstone interesting in three pages! She was absolutely mind-blowingly boring in every previous issue I've seen her in; either comatose, out of her mind, or utterly without personality. But here? Wow, she's a hardass. Now he just needs to work his magic on Songbird, another perpetually boring blank slate of a character.

The Miller flashback was delicious, and the commercial really set the tone for the series. This is where it gets similar to X-Statix: the public may hate and fear the team, but well-marketed super-humans will sell like hotcakes if you do it right, the edgier the better. Heh, it's kind of a commentary on the state of comics today. (Which I have no problem with, by the way. I'm down with the grit if it's done right). With a little more of that humor, this book could go from cool to brilliant. And unlike X-Statix, with its creative team and cast, it'll sell huge.

And I'm sorry, I already love Bondage Lobster*. I can't wait to see him in action. It works on a serious level, but it's just fantastic when taken with a little bit of humor.

And how about these covers? I love this artist, whatever his name is. (Djurdjevic? Djarjarbinks?)

As far as Deodato goes, I'm not a huge fan, but this issue had great art. He's playing to his strengths: heavy shadowing and dark colors without overblown anatomical proportions. If he keeps it up, then I'll continue to love it.

*Props to Cayman for the coinage of this name.

[ultramandingo]

Either the MU US public are idiots who will swallow anything the government feeds then or they are ungrateful scum who would rather cheer for a "controlled" sociopath than a free willed national hero.

.

yea , they probably voted for some bonehead male cheerleader c averaged pretzel chokin ex alkie daddys boy president . twice........man i gota get me one of those screamin captain america dolls !

[Jadeskies]

I dont think you have to worry about what parents would buy a toy of venom beating up captain america. I think that its more aligned to the ideal that a buisness man behind a toy company would think that they would sell.

It goes along the same lines as why every marvel toy in the 90's had to come with a gun. Why did Cyclops need an uzi when he can split a mountain in half? Its because someone felt it would sell more toys if they came with a weapon.

[Jadeskies]

I dont think you have to worry about what parents would buy a toy of venom beating up captain america. I think that its more aligned to the ideal that a buisness man behind a toy company would think that they would sell.

It goes along the same lines as why every marvel toy in the 90's had to come with a gun. Why did Cyclops need an uzi when he can split a mountain in half? Its because someone felt it would sell more toys if they came with a weapon.

[Sean Whitmore]

And hey, Ellis made Moonstone interesting in three pages! She was absolutely mind-blowingly boring in every previous issue I've seen her in; either comatose, out of her mind, or utterly without personality. But here? Wow, she's a hardass.

Not for nothing, but Ellis wrote her almost exactly like Busiek did when Thunderbolts first started. The line about her being the only one capable of managing a team of such disparate personalities was almost note-for-note Baron Zemo's recruitment speech.


SEAN

[The Lucky One]

This book reminds me of X-Statix with super-villains. I think I'm going to love it.

Definitely got an X-Statix vibe from it, but with X-Statix, more than half your ability to accept it as satire was in Allred's cartoony artwork. Deodato's artwork isn't bad in any way at all, but it's going to make it harder to see this series in quite the same "forget past continuity, forget playing things straight, just come along for the ride, it'll be fun" manner. I liked this first issue, but I'm wondering just how tongue-in-cheek Ellis is planning on making it.

Relatedly, really wondering how Speedball's (no, I'm not effing calling him "Penance") powers are supposed to work now. He, uh... bounces off of stuff. It's his thing. Which is a little harder to do with... y'know, spikes 'n junk. Aside from now having the power to blow out lightbulbs by doing an armpit fart, I'll be curious to see what Ellis has him do. Again, you really can't play this book straight with him in it, so will all the fights just see Speedball bouncing around going "OW! F***!" in every panel? (Wouldn't put it past Warren...)

Surprised more people haven't mentioned it- what's up with ALL the T-bolts being restrained? Venom and Bullseye, sure, by all means. Maybe even Swordsman. But Songbird was already pardoned, if I'm not much mistaken... what could possibly make her willing to let herself be restrained? And Radioactive Man's got Chinese government immunity, why would he put up with that crap? Speedball willingly (*sigh*) signed up and has no charges pending against him... is he now a masochist for humiliation on top of his usual spikey goodness? I don't get it.

-D

[Deus ex Chris]

yea , they probably voted for some bonehead male cheerleader c averaged pretzel chokin ex alkie daddys boy president . twice........man i gota get me one of those screamin captain america dolls !
Totally. I bet that little detail didn't escape Ellis, either.
Not for nothing, but Ellis wrote her almost exactly like Busiek did when Thunderbolts first started. The line about her being the only one capable of managing a team of such disparate personalities was almost note-for-note Baron Zemo's recruitment speech.
Moonstone was my favorite part of the issue. I love that she'll be playing queen bee.

[DMike]

yea , they probably voted for some bonehead male cheerleader c averaged pretzel chokin ex alkie daddys boy president . twice........man i gota get me one of those screamin captain america dolls !

Totally. I bet that little detail didn't escape Ellis, either.

Considering how some of the panels of Norman looked disturbingly Dubya-esque facewise I wouldn't be surprised.

[ultramandingo]

Speedball's (no, I'm not effing calling him "Penance")
-D

whaaaaaaaaa ????? that goofy clive barker lookin guy is that goofy ditko guy? thats almost as good as that goofy thor clone.....almost

[Alpow]

But Songbird was already pardoned, if I'm not much mistaken... what could possibly make her willing to let herself be restrained?

One way ticket to the neg zone if she refuses?

The CSA clearly isn't above anything when it comes to the Thunderbolts.

[SnakeEater]

I loved the art. where do i recognise it from. Could norman have looked more like Tommy Lee Jones. The issue was great though honestly i spaced on the toy comercial thing until i read the comments on this board and had to go back to see it.

good issue i like how there is a built in limit of one year of service.

i thought the exact same thing about Norman in that one pic, cant remember the page. I laughed my ass off at that one.
The art work, eh im not to fond of Deodato. The story itself is good, but i want to know how they still made Norman the director after he killed a bunch of Atlantis goons, damn near killed wonder man and tried to killed the atlantis ambassodor. He was clearly under arrest last we saw him

[FanboyStranger]

I am so psyched that Suicide Squad is back!

(Actually, I did enjoy the issue, especially the Russian roulette flashback. It's probably the only CW related book outside of Captain America and the Winter Kills one-shot I did like.)

[Johnny Blaze]

I really liked the issue, I wasn't disappointed in the least. It definitely lived up to the hype IMO. I want to see the jack flagg hunt.

Although I thought the toy ad, while funny, was a bit much.

[Cthulhudrew]

What surprised me was how much this issue referenced the Thunderbolts continuity. Not just the scene with Bullseye. But I guess any mention of continuity would have surprised me. It was definitely handled in such a way that you could be a new reader and easily follow the story.

I am not sure, but is TBolts Mountain supposed to be Mt. Charteris from v.1? This issue said it was located in Coyote Springs, CO, while Mt. Charteris is near Burton Canyon, CO, but maybe they are supposed to be one and the same? (It would make sense, frankly.)

[Cthulhudrew]

By the by, whatever happened with Lady Deathstrike? Did Ellis just not want her, or did the X-Office want her back, or what?

Pretty sure I remember reading Ellis commenting on that, saying that that is exactly what happened. On his board, IIRC.

[Cthulhudrew]

Well according to CW6 there needs to be local approval of any superteam, so Colorodo gave the O.K. to as ****ed up of a team as the Thunderbolts, that has to say a lot for their public support.

Not that messed up an idea, really. The TBolts operated out of Colorado for quite a bit of time during v.1, and they saved the world from there when Graviton attacked and incapacitated all the other heroes of the world. Colorado may have just supported the notion under the assumption they were getting the same heroic TBolts (or a near facsimile) at the time. They might be having some second thoughts seeing the likes of Venom and Bullseye with the group, though.

(There should still be enough familiar "heroic" faces from v.2 to sway public opinion, though- Songbird, and to an extent, Moonstone still ride on the accolades of v1; Songbird also on v.2, as would Rad Man- who helped save New York from nuclear devastation. Swordsman would probably be linked somewhat due to his involvement with the v.2 team.)

[David O Burcham]

yea , they probably voted for some bonehead male cheerleader c averaged pretzel chokin ex alkie daddys boy president . twice.......

Not to mention voting for some draft-dodgeing, North Korea-pandering, tax-raising, adulterous, hillbilly who thought that mummy looked "purdy hot".

Twice.

(equal time and all :) )

[David O Burcham]

...now having the power to blow out lightbulbs by doing an armpit fart...

That is probably the best description I have read concerning Speedball's new identity.

I was pleasantly suprised with the first issue, as it had the vibe of Ellis' non long-underwear books (for me, anyway). I've stated before that I love Ellis' writing on anything but super-hero genre books. I have never read a super-hero book by Ellis that I liked... straight or satire. He really did a great job on the introductory issue.

However, I am one of those weirdos who needs to like the story and art before buying a funny-book on a monthly basis. Frankly, I'd rather watch cheese mold than look at Deodota's art. Nothing personal against the guy, but his work never has been my cup o' tea.

[jackolover]

Kelly Hu might be more recognizable. Kelly Hu looks nothing like how Lady Deathstrike looks.

Parden me if this has already been mentioned, as I haven't read the earlier thread, but has anybody else noticed that Deodato's Osborn was modelled after Tommy Lee Jones?

[jackolover]

If Norman Osborn can do anything, its too make things work the way he wants it to. Also all the shackled team members make sense, since most of them(like Bullseye) would love to escape. that and they're viscious monsters/people who shouldnt be trusted farther than they can be thrown.


Osborn is a full blown crazy! 'The way he wants it'? The way he wants it could be, lets go get Spiderman, and all his family. I really wonder how much control Osborn has of this team, because Norman would want to go after Peter, but obviously, his handlers won't let him.

So, Norman is going to be content with banal collection activity. If I was Norman, I would find some way to cause confusion and have his minders by the throat until he can get the antidote, then release everyone, while he makes his escape. That's what I would do.

Also, how can Norman tell Moonstone if she takes the leadership she doesn't get the nanites? Norman has the nanites, so, so does she. We've all seen him in the Spiderman books. He has plans within plans. Unless the editors of Marvel have gutted his character, like they did the Jackels, Norman can find his way out of anything.

[Sean Whitmore]

Also, how can Norman tell Moonstone if she takes the leadership she doesn't get the nanites? Norman has the nanites, so, so does she.

It's possible that, after the events of CW: Frontline, Osborn's nanites are/will be removed.


SEAN

[jackolover]

It's possible that, after the events of CW: Frontline, Osborn's nanites are/will be removed.


SEAN

Don't know. How could you trust a Norman Osborn, or control him so he does what you want? Do you have nanites to remove madness?

[protege]

Parden me if this has already been mentioned, as I haven't read the earlier thread, but has anybody else noticed that Deodato's Osborn was modelled after Tommy Lee Jones?

Didn't notice it, as I said, I thought he looked like Howdy Doody, but I like your idea better.

[Red Lotus]

Osborn is a full blown crazy! 'The way he wants it'? The way he wants it could be, lets go get Spiderman, and all his family. I really wonder how much control Osborn has of this team, because Norman would want to go after Peter, but obviously, his handlers won't let him.

So, Norman is going to be content with banal collection activity. If I was Norman, I would find some way to cause confusion and have his minders by the throat until he can get the antidote, then release everyone, while he makes his escape. That's what I would do.

Also, how can Norman tell Moonstone if she takes the leadership she doesn't get the nanites? Norman has the nanites, so, so does she. We've all seen him in the Spiderman books. He has plans within plans. Unless the editors of Marvel have gutted his character, like they did the Jackels, Norman can find his way out of anything.

Norman has always had an agenda and there is no doubt that he has one here. But the one thing about Norman is he has always been able to hide behind the fact that the world didn’t know he was the Goblin. But now that they do it puts him at an disadvantage. Norman operates better when he is able be out in the open not hiding from SHIELD. Chances are when he was arrested they seized his accounts and other stuff like that. So who knows what promises SHIELD has made him.

When Spider-man unmasked it change the game. In his eyes Peter broke the rules and Norman lost his leverage. But now its Norman turn to get back that advantage and with the law on his side he know when the time comes he can go after Peter like he never has before. New game new rules.

[Karl O'Neill]

So i ended up getting this too,

can't wait to read it,

[MAK15]

It's possible that, after the events of CW: Frontline, Osborn's nanites are/will be removed.


SEAN

or they're still infected.

[Xanrn]

What I want to know is where it will be explain how Norman goes from strapped into a chair in a intergation room to sitting in a comfy chair in an office...

I mean jesus christ who the hell is stupid enough to do that?

Well it answers who won Civil War, neither. The bloody Green Goblin did.

I want to see Spiderman beat the crap outa all these nubling Thunderbolts, nay I demand Spiderman beats the crap outa of them.

[Magneto Rocks]

...I'd love to see the explanation for how Norman goes from giggling idiotic madman to cold, IN-CHARACTER monster.

Don't blame Ellis of course, this is 100% Jenkins.

[PastePotPete]

This book was cool. Hope the next five or six issues live up to the promise of the first one.

Sure, it's got it's weird idiosyncracies... like why would America suddenly make Venom an admired action hero?

But I believed it, cuz Ellis's script is slick and, as Hannibal Tabu put it, 'mean.' It really is a mean script. And America is mean right now. I buy the premise of this book because it's alllllllllll-most plausible. And it's fun besides.

Also, kudos to actually treating Jack Flagg as a real 3-D character instead of a joke.

Let me get this straight: they're sending ALL of the Thunderbolts after him?

He's going to get his skull caved in.

[Zel]

Yeah, there's so many things wrong about the premise... So instead of just using other registered heroes to hunt down the ones on the run, the government turns to supervillains. And not just any, but guys like Venom and Bullseye. How is what they're doing any different than what Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man did, for example, in chasing down Spider-Woman? Why have this whole eloborate set up, with the enormously intricate mountain headquarters and paying Moonstone a freaking million dollars a month (from the taxpayers' pockets, no doubt :D) to head up the operation? Seems to me guys like Arana and Ms. Marvel, who have already registered, could do just as well for much cheaper and without resorting to known murderers and criminals.



Yeah, that's why I put the book back on the shelf, I just can't buy into the premise. It just makes no sense to me. A bit of a shame, I liked the manipulative Moonstone from earlier t-bolts and I'm glad she's back.

[Magneto Rocks]

Yeah, there's so many things wrong about the premise... So instead of just using other registered heroes to hunt down the ones on the run, the government turns to supervillains. And not just any, but guys like Venom and Bullseye. How is what they're doing any different than what Ms. Marvel and Wonder Man did, for example, in chasing down Spider-Woman? Why have this whole eloborate set up, with the enormously intricate mountain headquarters and paying Moonstone a freaking million dollars a month (from the taxpayers' pockets, no doubt ) to head up the operation? Seems to me guys like Arana and Ms. Marvel, who have already registered, could do just as well for much cheaper and without resorting to known murderers and criminals.

Well to be fair this is during, not post, civil war. And it's a later stage in the game, where Cap's resistance is much larger and much more of a threat.

So people like Ms Marvel and Wonder Man are busy running the civil war itself- and even Spider-Woman was bigger game than Jack Flag, for goodness sake. Makes sense I guess- there's a cold logic that at least if things go wrong it's "only" Jack Flag.

[MatthewC]

Also, kudos to actually treating Jack Flagg as a real 3-D character instead of a joke.

Let me get this straight: they're sending ALL of the Thunderbolts after him?

He's going to get his skull caved in.

It seems like the most surprising twist would be for them to arrest Flagg and send him to prison. The expectation appears to be that they'll murder him outright.

But really, if they can't even arrest one guy without killing him, doesn't that make the team a failure?

[Slumber Hulk]

The premise that supervillians are the best suited to hunt heroes is stupid. Yes, they are better suited morally since they have no qualms fights their enemies. But supervillians have rarely had success against the "hero" types before? In fact if a villian ever starts to win fights its usually a sign of becomeing a hero, like the original Venom. And by original I mean the one that didn't suck.

[Magneto Rocks]

The premise that supervillians are the best suited to hunt heroes is stupid. Yes, they are better suited morally since they have no qualms fights their enemies. But supervillians have rarely had success against the "hero" types before? In fact if a villian ever starts to win fights its usually a sign of becomeing a hero, like the original Venom. And by original I mean the one that didn't suck.

Oh I'm sorry, the original Venom DID suck so that doesn't compute ;)

TO be fair, I'm pretty sure that between them this lot could take down any solo hero. The New Thunderbolts drew with the New Avengers though so by logic THIS bunch of Thunderbolts (What do we call them? The NEW New Thunderbolts? The All-new, all-deadly Thunderbolts?) should cream be able to cream 'em if it comes to that.

[Ryan Day]

The premise that supervillians are the best suited to hunt heroes is stupid. Yes, they are better suited morally since they have no qualms fights their enemies. But supervillians have rarely had success against the "hero" types before? In fact if a villian ever starts to win fights its usually a sign of becomeing a hero, like the original Venom. And by original I mean the one that didn't suck.

But by that rationale, Super Villains should just give up in the first place, since by this point the should know they're gonna get creamed any time they try to rob a bank or take over the world.

This isn't that big a stretch: The government once hired the Brother Hood of Evil Mutants to work for them. Yes - they hired a group of people who actually included evil in their name. And yes, they were generally useless, too, but still. Evil.

[Jack]

I feel it should be pointed out that just because they're selling Thunderbolts vs Screaming Cap toy sets doesn't mean anyone is actually buying them. And just because there's a show that is being paid to talk about the Thunderbolts all the time doesn't mean that anyone is watching it. Money is obviously being put into promoting the Thunderbolts, or they wouldn't even have a toy line, but we don't know that they're actually popular or accepted in the slightest, yet.

[jackolover]

But the one thing about Norman is he has always been able to hide behind the fact that the world didn’t know he was the Goblin. But now that they do it puts him at an disadvantage. Norman operates better when he is able be out in the open not hiding from SHIELD. Chances are when he was arrested they seized his accounts and other stuff like that. So who knows what promises SHIELD has made him.

This could be the series where Norman starts to build a new power base, now that he is a known quantity. Sort of like Lex Luthor, Norman might go for President Osborn. He has to start somewher. Why not make a few in-roads in Shield, and work his way up. He knows how to play the system.

[StoneGold]

This could be the series where Norman starts to build a new power base, now that he is a known quantity. Sort of like Lex Luthor, Norman might go for President Osborn. He has to start somewher. Why not make a few in-roads in Shield, and work his way up. He knows how to play the system.

While I could see some kind of high up position, I don't see president, for a couple reasons. One, Marvel has always prided itself on "the president is the president." Now, that could always change, but I doubt it would be for Norman. As big as he is, Marvel's not getting any outside press for electing the Green Goblin to the Oval Office. DC could have for Lex, because he's f'n Lex Luthor, but they kind of dropped the ball on that. Something Marvel hasn't done lately when it comes to outside press.

Basically, if anyone is getting elected president at Marvel, it's going to be Captain America. None of the villains are either high profile or American born enough to pull it off.

[Jack]

While I could see some kind of high up position, I don't see president, for a couple reasons. One, Marvel has always prided itself on "the president is the president." Now, that could always change, but I doubt it would be for Norman. As big as he is, Marvel's not getting any outside press for electing the Green Goblin to the Oval Office. DC could have for Lex, because he's f'n Lex Luthor, but they kind of dropped the ball on that. Something Marvel hasn't done lately when it comes to outside press.

Basically, if anyone is getting elected president at Marvel, it's going to be Captain America. None of the villains are either high profile or American born enough to pull it off.
American born? Doom laughs at such trivialities.

http://www.geocities.com/latvaria2099/d99_32.jpg

[jackolover]

What I want to know is where it will be explain how Norman goes from strapped into a chair in a intergation room to sitting in a comfy chair in an office...

I mean jesus christ who the hell is stupid enough to do that?

Well it answers who won Civil War, neither. The bloody Green Goblin did.

I want to see Spiderman beat the crap outa all these nubling Thunderbolts, nay I demand Spiderman beats the crap outa of them.

Xanrn, you hit the nail on the head. The transition from strapped-in Norman, to comfy chair Norman happed too quickly. Lot of unexplained stuff there.

It could be Norman is being deluded by Shield into thinking he is independant.
It could be Norman has been given freedom for some obscure deal with Shield.

But I doubt Spidey could handle the likes of this TBolts group on his own. He'd be torn apart, unless he could attack them individually, like he did the original sinister six.

And you could be right. This may herald the rise of the Green Goblin, now that he has a foot in an organisation like Shield. Look what he did with the Sciers. We've already seen the connection to Shield between Jimmy Woo's Atlas Group, in Agents of Atlas, as well as the connection with Wakanda, through Kun Lat (via Atlas), so why not the Sciers, a European organisation?

[StoneGold]

American born? Doom laughs at such trivialities.

http://www.geocities.com/latvaria2099/d99_32.jpg

Doom don't bother much with elections, either. He's more of a take power kind of guy. Which is what I believe happened in 2099, correct?

[jackolover]

It seems like the most surprising twist would be for them to arrest Flagg and send him to prison. The expectation appears to be that they'll murder him outright.

But really, if they can't even arrest one guy without killing him, doesn't that make the team a failure?

That's why the practice on Jack Flagg. If they can't play as a team, and actually apprehend a felon, then the team is no good. It has to work the first time. They can't afford a clor moment.

[Jack]

Doom don't bother much with elections, either. He's more of a take power kind of guy. Which is what I believe happened in 2099, correct?
I feel the point still stands.

[StoneGold]

I feel the point still stands.

I'm not sure if Doom takes over the US (again) is that big a deal though. Unless they made it some kind of parable about an occupying force, it's just random supervillain of the week.

I'm just saying, the character they could get the most mileage out of in the executive office is Cap. Well, Spidey, but that means making Spidey over 35.

[jackolover]

Basically, if anyone is getting elected president at Marvel, it's going to be Captain America. None of the villains are either high profile or American born enough to pull it off.

How would Norman get to be able to run for President?

I don't know. What about he manipulates money and press, (we saw how he could do that as head of the Daily Bugle). He has been wrongly vilified all these years. He now has powerful allies, (who he has blackmailed into service). He builds up corporate affiliates via Scriers, and enforces it with Shield power. I don't know. It could happen.

[StoneGold]

How would Norman get to be able to run for President?

I don't know. What about he manipulates money and press, (we saw how he could do that as head of the Daily Bugle). He has been wrongly vilified all these years. He now has powerful allies, (who he has blackmailed into service). He builds up corporate affiliates via Scriers, and enforces it with Shield power. I don't know. It could happen.

You misunderstand. I'm saying there is no incentive for Marvel, as a company, to make the Green Goblin the president. There's not enough outside market appeal to the concept. Too many people, their only knowledge of the Goblin is that Power Ranger guy from the movie played by the dude from Platoon. There's not enough storyline for a movement that, in the end, would mostly effect only Spider-Man.

[Will.S]

This was definitely among my most anticipated books of the week and I have to say despite the set-up of it all, it worked quite well.

You can't beat that creepy intro with Norman and Bullseye (I would be surprised if they never met before this). My favorite parts were the action figures, the media attention to Thunderbolts mountain, the way they integrate Reed's technology into it, the T-Bolts transportation from the mountain to a mission. It all makes sense with in the way they've been handling some of them as super villains and you get a taste of the post-CW universe it's in. It reminded me a bit of Busiek's first Thunderbolts issue sans the big shocker ending.

Jack Flagg is new to me so having no previous exposure to him, I'll have to say that Ellis makes him a very down to earth, stoic and interesting character. I'm intruiged about how Jack Flagg's fight with the T-Bolts will go, odds don't seem to be in his favor but since it looks like it'll be the first time the team works together they might mess it up. I'm guessing he'll either be one of the heroes to get locked in in the prison or he'll be a recurring character throughout.

Now generally Mike Deodato is hit and miss with me. His Amazing Spider-Man with JMS was great while his New Avengers work (while good in parts) was disappointing and not as good as his Spider-Man work so when I'd heard that he would be drawing the book my expectations sunk. He seems to be firing on all cylinders here though, perhaps it's because of the colors overlapping his art and not having an inker to "restrain" the art but I have to say I'm enjoying the art here so far.

I can't wait to see how the team will operate now and I'm looking forward to see them interact with each other since it's an awkward group.

[ultramandingo]

The premise that supervillians are the best suited to hunt heroes is stupid. Yes, they are better suited morally since they have no qualms fights their enemies. But supervillians have rarely had success against the "hero" types before? In fact if a villian ever starts to win fights its usually a sign of becomeing a hero, like the original Venom. And by original I mean the one that didn't suck.

the us goverment suported bin laden to take on the russians and took sadams side agast iran. ( plus giving nazi scientists jobs to get us to the moon ) ." the enemy of my enemy is my friend " and all that......

[StoneGold]

the us goverment suported bin laden to take on the russians and took sadams side agast iran. ( plus giving nazi scientists jobs to get us to the moon ) ." the enemy of my enemy is my friend " and all that......

I think the last one is the only one that really works for the situation, given that Bin Ladin and Saddam hadn't done anything to us at that point (well, technically, Saddam never really did, but that's beside the point).

[jackolover]

You misunderstand. I'm saying there is no incentive for Marvel, as a company, to make the Green Goblin the president. There's not enough outside market appeal to the concept.

I don't know. Let's see if there are.

How many people think Norman would make a good President?

Come on. X-people, Avengers People, FF people. Anybody ever heard of Norman Osborn?

I'll say there are more people aware of Osborn that you think. I mean, I don't know much about Sinister, but he would make a good President.

[StoneGold]

I don't know. Let's see if there are.

How many people think Norman would make a good President?

Come on. X-people, Avengers People, FF people. Anybody ever heard of Norman Osborn?

I'll say there are more people aware of Osborn that you think. I mean, I don't know much about Sinister, but he would make a good President.

Sigh. Still not getting it.

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1328566
http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/fun_stuff/article/0,1406,KNS_342_5240308,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/life/2006-04-13-coming-attractions_x.htm

See the real life, mainstream news articles? Real world, not Marvel as in fictional characters, but as a corporation that publishes comic books, isn't getting those same kinds of headlines with the Green Goblin as president. Whereas they have a character or two in their stable they could be getting those headlines with.

[Cthulhudrew]

I think that Norman's sinister plan is to make billions in licensing Thunderbolts action figures.

[MAK15]

I think that Norman's sinister plan is to make billions in licensing Thunderbolts action figures.

screaming captain america?
penance action figure?
Thundebolts mt. playset?
if this stuff was released at x-mas, he'd already make a bunch of money

[jackolover]

Sigh. Still not getting it.

http://www.gazette.com/display.php?id=1328566
http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/fun_stuff/article/0,1406,KNS_342_5240308,00.html
http://www.usatoday.com/life/2006-04-13-coming-attractions_x.htm

See the real life, mainstream news articles? Real world, not Marvel as in fictional characters, but as a corporation that publishes comic books, isn't getting those same kinds of headlines with the Green Goblin as president. Whereas they have a character or two in their stable they could be getting those headlines with.

Well, I'm still not getting what you keep discounting. Are you saying us readers couldn't elect Norman Osborn, or are you saying people that don't read Marvel comics would never elect Norman Osborn? Because I'm talking about the fictional world, not the real world.

[IamtheRock3]

pretty good ounce you get pass the IFFY logic premise


Interestring opening, cool dilouge and stuff

didnt pull the easy guard, and didn't make then to anti-HEROISH by making the unregister hero thier hunting a totaly scumbag, that blow up buildings to catch purse snatchers

to be honest though that where they were going

the art was great

moonstone was interesting


but thing is how will they be after Cival war if Tony beats cap crew. I mean if he does, it an handfull of heroes on the run. Thunderbolts seem like overkill considering Tony resoruces

[StoneGold]

Well, I'm still not getting what you keep discounting. Are you saying us readers couldn't elect Norman Osborn, or are you saying people that don't read Marvel comics would never elect Norman Osborn? Because I'm talking about the fictional world, not the real world.

No, I'm saying that from a publishing standpoint, it wouldn't make any sense for Joe Quesada, Dan Buckley, et al, to make Osborn the president, because it is too big a change for too little monetary gain. It's too big a change to the world of Marvel that in the end only affect Spider-Man, and it won't gather that much outside, real world press coverage. Not to mention, it would be an obvious Luthor ripoff. The only character I think they could stand to gain anything by making president is Cap, and that's still a shaky idea.

[Polarity]

What about Songbird, Radioactive Man and Swordsman? The posts and reviews I've read only reference Norman Osborn, Bullseye, Venom (very little) Moonstone and Jack Flag.

Please spoil me on Songbird and the others.

[Shellhead]

I think that Norman's sinister plan is to make billions in licensing Thunderbolts action figures.

That plot idea has already been used, more than 20 years ago, in the pages of Dreadstar.

[MAK15]

What about Songbird, Radioactive Man and Swordsman? The posts and reviews I've read only reference Norman Osborn, Bullseye, Venom (very little) Moonstone and Jack Flag.

Please spoil me on Songbird and the others.

okee dokee!

Songbird was once called screaming mimi. she had he butt kicked a bunch of times. She was one of the original Thunderbolts members, where she took her current codename. In actuality, the Thunderbotls were really the latest incarnation of the team called the masters of evil who were using their super-hero personas to do some evil thing, I totally forget. Later, she got tired of having her plans foiled and decided to turn a new leaf, so she joined the new thunderbolts team in hopes of getting a presidential pardon or somthing.

Radioactive Man is a chinese scientist who is not a creation of Matt Groening. Chen is another supervillain who was tired of constant defeat, and joined the new thunderbolts in hopes of clearing his name. His efforts in the civil war include helping the construction of the 42 complex, and hunting unregisterd heroes in the thunderbolts army.

Swordsman was once one of the fenris twins, mutants who could shoot fiery whatever whenever they touched hands. This swordsman was trained in the proficency of sword-play, and has a sword whose hilt is the tanned skin of his late sister. gruesome.

Penance is the new guy. Once a hero, he became guilty over the deaths of several people linked to the stamford accident. Although he did not cause those deaths on purpose, his mind feels different, having being guilted by convicts, fathers and the like. His powers are activated by pain.
you can go to the Penance ID thread to learn who he is. because I feel like being cryptic right now.

[Cthulhudrew]

That plot idea has already been used, more than 20 years ago, in the pages of Dreadstar.

Ah, so then by Marvel terms, it's due for a rehash, right? (Since the rumor is they're bringing back another Starlin classic, Captain Marvel.) :p

(Which, FTR, I don't believe is actually going to happen.)

[Cthulhudrew]

Please spoil me on Songbird and the others.[/FONT]

There's not much to spoil, just that they were all present. Though he's restrained like the others aboard the TBolts jet, Radioactive Man is specifically noted not to have any nanites or "countermeasures" in/on him, by request of the Chinese government. Norman also talks about how he's making Moonstone the leader because he demoted Songbird- he didn't like her sense of morality and ethics.

Swordsman is restrained and appears to have nanites in him too. A comment is made that if he tries to get to his stowed away weaponry that countermeasures will be activated. I forget what (if anything) it says about Songbird's countermeasures. I almost seem to recall something about a pardon mentioned for her, which would be odd, but I could be confusing that comment with the one made to Moonstone.

Which sort of goes to an interesting point about Ellis' Osborn. He's using what is, I believe, the current version of Norman, which is the evil Green Goblin in control of both aspects of Norman's life- as opposed to the split personality Norman that existed in early Spider-Man. That seems of most interest to me since I would think that the benevolent split personality Norman would be more likely to benefit from the government's trust in this project than the twisted goblin. I guess I'm a little surprised that he's not going the split personality route, is what I'm saying. I like what he's done so far with Norman, though, so it's not a complaint. Just a comment.

[AnthonyJ]

Swordsman is restrained and appears to have nanites in him too. A comment is made that if he tries to get to his stowed away weaponry that countermeasures will be activated. I forget what (if anything) it says about Songbird's countermeasures.
Nothing. A couple characters neither had countermeasures mentioned, nor had anything mentioned about not having countermeasures, which I'm guessing means generic countermeasures (nanites).

[Tater]

Just read the issue. It was kinda boring in parts. But they are still introducing everything, so it's understandable. Also they did have to make last minute changes because of the Civil War delays. The Art was good. But Norman's eye is kinda messed up in the TV scene. I also really wasn't a fan of how they drew the Venom suit. It sould have looked more like the one in the one shot. I am looking forward to this series though. I bought they whole, America loving them thing. As the issue does take place a few months after the Civil War is over and all. So they have seen the Thunderbolts in action quite a few times already, and probally alot more than we have seen.

[Magneto Rocks]

Just read the issue. It was kinda boring in parts. But they are still introducing everything, so it's understandable. Also they did have to make last minute changes because of the Civil War delays. The Art was good. But Norman's eye is kinda messed up in the TV scene. I also really wasn't a fan of how they drew the Venom suit. It sould have looked more like the one in the one shot. I am looking forward to this series though. I bought they whole, America loving them thing. As the issue does take place a few months after the Civil War is over and all. So they have seen the Thunderbolts in action quite a few times already, and probally alot more than we have seen.

Actually this takes place DURING civil war- hence them mentioning Cap coming for Jack and Bullseye only being caught three days ago.

[Tater]

Are you talking about in the first few pages? I didn't take that to mean it was when he was captured. I thought he was getting harassed by new boss Osbourn for messing up. Good point about the Cap reference. Maybe Cap doesn't get captured in the final battle? IDK, but I'm pretty sure Joe Q said this series starts after the end of Civil War.

[Magneto Rocks]

It's open to interpretation either way; we may know for certain after CW7.

[Atom_basher]

holy ****, if the pace keeps up like this, i have a new favorite book, its that good

[sgt pepper]

Looks like Ellis is coppin your ****, Whitmore.

[agrich]

I thought it was great. Better than I expected, although I do generally like Ellis.

I also thought it was Deodato's best work. I hated, and I mean HATED, his recent stint on New Avengers. Didn't care for him much on Hulk, either. So, I was pleasantly surprised.

I don't really buy the concept entirely -- I mean really, Bullseye? -- but I can let that go if the story's entertaining enough. Good start.

You can't beat that creepy intro with Norman and Bullseye (I would be surprised if they never met before this).

Not that surprising. Osborn was killed off before Bullseye was even created. Since Osborn's been back (something I still strongly resent, incidentally), Bullseye's spent a lot of time in jail.

[Sean Whitmore]

Looks like Ellis is coppin your ****, Whitmore.

He did what to the who now?


SEAN

[Will.S]

Not that surprising. Osborn was killed off before Bullseye was even created. Since Osborn's been back (something I still strongly resent, incidentally), Bullseye's spent a lot of time in jail.
Ah, I guess it was sort of like the whole Doc Ock/Norman Osborne scenario where they haven't really met until Millar's run.

[Sean Whitmore]

Not that surprising. Osborn was killed off before Bullseye was even created. Since Osborn's been back (something I still strongly resent, incidentally), Bullseye's spent a lot of time in jail.

Besides that, they don't exactly travel in the same circles. Osborn is more of a hands-on guy. And when he occasionally uses hired guns, he tends to stick to the Spidey-rogue set.


SEAN

[Spiderboy-Prime]

Besides that, they don't exactly travel in the same circles. Osborn is more of a hands-on guy. And when he occasionally uses hired guns, he tends to stick to the Spidey-rogue set.


SEAN


it appears that he also only handles his jobs in costume if he wants to handle the situation personally

[StoneGold]

I don't really buy the concept entirely -- I mean really, Bullseye? -- but I can let that go if the story's entertaining enough. Good start.



Funny, Bullseye is the guy I think makes the most sense. Being a former government op and all. And occasional freelancer, I believe.

If anyone doesn't make sense, it's Radioactive Man, being a foreign national, or Venom, being, well, Venom.

[MAK15]

Funny, Bullseye is the guy I think makes the most sense. Being a former government op and all. And occasional freelancer, I believe.

If anyone doesn't make sense, it's Radioactive Man, being a foreign national, or Venom, being, well, Venom.

Venom's made a few deals to make a whole bunch of money.
If you read Civil War: Choosing sides, Gargan sells his life rights to some movie company, gaining a lot of money. then, he makes a deal with the thunderbolts to get MORE money and a chance to crack some heads.
that's Venom's reason to join this gang.

[StoneGold]

Venom's made a few deals to make a whole bunch of money.
If you read Civil War: Choosing sides, Gargan sells his life rights to some movie company, gaining a lot of money. then, he makes a deal with the thunderbolts to get MORE money and a chance to crack some heads.
that's Venom's reason to join this gang.

Yeah, but first, Mac's a loser, and second, Mac is now Venom. That's a questionable combination. A fun one, but questionable.

[MAK15]

Yeah, but first, Mac's a loser, and second, Mac is now Venom. That's a questionable combination. A fun one, but questionable.

Gargan might have been a loser as teh scorpion, but he's smart enough to know how to make over a million dollars before signing up for the draft.
ALSO, the venom symbiote know has a better host, one who isn't mentally unstable, and can actually do more with the symbiote in the shrot time they;ve been together than Brock did in his whole life.
remember Gargan using the symbiote to control the SHIELD soldier and blast his buddies? best example of Gargan's potential of the symbiote over brocks.

[Sean Whitmore]

the venom symbiote know has a better host, one who isn't mentally unstable

Gargan is nuttier than a Payday bar.

He once went on a rampage because he was under the mistaken impression that he couldn't take off his costume. What led him to think this is anybody's guess.


SEAN

[Jadeskies]

I personally have a feeling that Brock is going to be showing up to reclaim the suit once he kicks cancer to the curb. Why?

When a movie starts to hit the theaters amazingly enough the contents of the comic book starts to look amazingly just like the Movie (Since new readers want to jump right from movie to comic without any interruption), Green goblins appear out of no where, Dr Doom becomes the liquid terminator, and Professor X begins to look amazingly like the captain of the star ship Enterprise. So my predictions will stand that Brock will be wearing the symbiote by time the new spiderman 3 flick hits the stands.

[MAK15]

Gargan is nuttier than a Payday bar.

He once went on a rampage because he was under the mistaken impression that he couldn't take off his costume. What led him to think this is anybody's guess.

SEAN

no zipper where he needed it.
HA!

[MAK15]

I personally have a feeling that Brock is going to be showing up to reclaim the suit once he kicks cancer to the curb. Why?

When a movie starts to hit the theaters amazingly enough the contents of the comic book starts to look amazingly just like the Movie (Since new readers want to jump right from movie to comic without any interruption), Green goblins appear out of no where, Dr Doom becomes the liquid terminator, and Professor X begins to look amazingly like the captain of the star ship Enterprise. So my predictions will stand that Brock will be wearing the symbiote by time the new spiderman 3 flick hits the stands.

well, yeah, of course Brock's comin back later this year.
Wizard said so.
I dunno how, but it'll happen.

[StoneGold]

I personally have a feeling that Brock is going to be showing up to reclaim the suit once he kicks cancer to the curb. Why?

When a movie starts to hit the theaters amazingly enough the contents of the comic book starts to look amazingly just like the Movie (Since new readers want to jump right from movie to comic without any interruption), Green goblins appear out of no where, Dr Doom becomes the liquid terminator, and Professor X begins to look amazingly like the captain of the star ship Enterprise. So my predictions will stand that Brock will be wearing the symbiote by time the new spiderman 3 flick hits the stands.

Yeah, just like how Jean Grey came back to life just in time for the third X-Men movie.

[BigBoss]

I think its my dream team man, venom green gobie.warren ellis did a great job with the suspense, and Iam really likeing the plot and giveing the D heros some spotlight. so well what do u guys think.

[BigBoss]

oh sryr I so didint see the summary srry whoever moved it.

[Haunt]

I think its my dream team man, venom green gobie.warren ellis did a great job with the suspense, and Iam really likeing the plot and giveing the D heros some spotlight. so well what do u guys think.

i think it has too much Swordsman and not enough Living Laser.
http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20060215/IM-4-pg3.jpg
http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20060215/IM-4-pg18.jpg

Yeah, just like how Jean Grey came back to life just in time for the third X-Men movie.

the Phoenix force was back in the comics, wasn't it?

[StoneGold]

the Phoenix force was back in the comics, wasn't it?

Was it? I have no idea. But it wasn't in the movie, in any case. They didn't do any real Phoenix imagery.

[BigBoss]

i think it has too much Swordsman and not enough Living Laser.
http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20060215/IM-4-pg3.jpg
http://images.comicbookresources.com/bmb/20060215/IM-4-pg18.jpg



the Phoenix force was back in the comics, wasn't it?

Iam sorry what do u mean too mutch swordsman not enogh laser?

[BigBoss]

I think norman osbourne isint going to be out as the green goblin mutch, I think he is gonna stay behind scens and just observe what the thunderbolts do. and why do I feel too soon the thunderbolts are gonna start to break up too soon?

[Chicken_Vittles]

Suicide Squad + Weapon X The series = The new Thunderbolts?

I mean Come On people how many times have we seen this before? A team of villains get together, they work for the govt under the condition if the do well they get pardoned for all their crimes, While working for the Govt They are "under control" if they step out of line they face horrible Consequences, I mean For Gosh sake, The first couple of issues of thunderbolts is almost the same thing as the First couple of issues of Weapon X: The Draft, IMO I think Weapon X has more Promise than the new Thunderbolts :rolleyes:

[Professor Goldfish]

Isn't this just a poor-ass version of Suicide Squad? Sure sounds like it. A LOT.

[Jake V]

Suicide Squad + Weapon X The series = The new Thunderbolts?

I mean Come On people how many times have we seen this before? A team of villains get together, they work for the govt under the condition if the do well they get pardoned for all their crimes, While working for the Govt They are "under control" if they step out of line they face horrible Consequences, I mean For Gosh sake, The first couple of issues of thunderbolts is almost the same thing as the First couple of issues of Weapon X: The Draft, IMO I think Weapon X has more Promise than the new Thunderbolts :rolleyes:

Possibly, but Thunderbolts has more readers.

[Sean Whitmore]

I think Weapon X has more Promise than the new Thunderbolts :rolleyes:

I read it.

It SO didn't.


SEAN