The Future of Cap's Monthly

[oneasian]

How long do you think the team of Brubaker and Epting will last? I really hope it does! I'm crossing my fingers that it's possible that surpass that record for consercutive issues by the same creative team! What is that? Something like 104 issues?

On another thought, what do you think Arnim Zola is going to create for the Red Skull? I think the gear he got from Dr. Doom was used for tech for Zola, so the Skull probably wants to make something insane. Do you think he'd clone himself another Cap body? Or is that just rehashing the old?

I hope they dont kill Sharon Carter again. But I think that doing that, or making Cap believe that happened would go a long way to destroying "everything he holds dear".

Oh yeah, more Crossbones and Sin! (that is her name, right?) I also hope that one day, Cap can have some stories with the Winter Soldier.

What are your thougths for the future of Cap?

[Jmacq1]

Well, a lot of it depends on what exactly his status is after "Civil War".

If he's dead/maimed/imprisoned, than the books are going to be veeeery different. Possibly with Winter Soldier taking up Cap's mantle for a while.

But regardless of what happens, as long as Brubaker keeps putting out quality stories (as he has so far), he can stick around from now until eternity. Epting/Perkins sticking around would be perfection in comic-book form.

Seriously, this title's been firing on all cylinders since it "relaunched." The longer they can keep it going, the better.

[Magneto Rocks]

Brub has it planned up to #50. Hopefully it will make it well beyond.

[Joe Acro]

I think the gear he got from Dr. Doom was used for tech for Zola, so the Skull probably wants to make something insane.That Doom/Skull encounter has been my only problem with the series so far.


I hope they dont kill Sharon Carter again.That won't happen. She was left alive for some reason. That reason has yet to become clear.

I honestly can't speculate on what might occur in the future. Brubaker's done such a tremendous job at being secretive within the plot, I can't figure out much but in a good way.

[brundlefly]

On another thought, what do you think Arnim Zola is going to create for the Red Skull? I think the gear he got from Dr. Doom was used for tech for Zola, so the Skull probably wants to make something insane. Do you think he'd clone himself another Cap body? Or is that just rehashing the old?

Doubt it. I think I remember reading an interview where Bru wasn't going to go that "Cap clone body with Skull's brain" route again, and at some point early in the series when they mentioned the last time the Skull cheated death (the clone body), it was presented as no longer an option for some reason or another (my recollection is fuzzy at the moment on the details). I am eagerly anticipating the Cap Classic Villain Reunion's revenge plans, though, and think that upcoming storyline is why we won't see Cap killed/replaced after Civil War, since he's already got a new plotline to jump into in his own book.



Oh yeah, more Crossbones and Sin! (that is her name, right?) I also hope that one day, Cap can have some stories with the Winter Soldier.


Ditto on more Crossbones, Sin, and Winter Soldier. I hope to see Bucky coming to Cap's aid when Skull and his crew (Faustus, Zola, Cross, Sin) strike, as Sharon has obviously been compromised and might end up being used as the Skull's pawn against Cap, similar to the way Jack Munroe/Nomad was used circa Cap #290-300.

[Kirk G]

As I've said before, Brubaker's run on Cap has been so critically hailed and such a sales success that I can't see Marvel doing ANYTHING that would reign in that creator or on-going series.

Now, Iron Man (is it late again?) has been another matter....

[brundlefly]

Now, Iron Man (is it late again?) has been another matter....

Heh, that's true. Ellis' EXTREMIS arc is the last IM run that I followed of the current "series" and since that ended I often forget that he even has a solo title. Stark is very lucky there's an IM movie coming up, as I think he'll make it out of Civil War alive, and eventually be rehabbed into a hero again, based on that fact alone.

I'm actually wanting CW to just hurry up and end already so that Brubaker can move on to the Skull's revenge scheme in the Cap title as the main story, as that's been such a great slow-building subplot during the CW tie-in issues.

[Mark Thorson]

How long do you think the team of Brubaker and Epting will last? I really hope it does! I'm crossing my fingers that it's possible that surpass that record for consercutive issues by the same creative team! What is that? Something like 104 issues?


I hope Bru's there for a long time as well, but there's been a fill-in artist so that kinda shoots down the record possibility.

[StoneGold]

Now, Iron Man (is it late again?) has been another matter....

Actually, it's been pretty regular (except for Civil War delays) since the Knauffs took over.

[oneasian]

I totally forgot about the use of a fill-in artist for the run so far. The art just fit so well that I totally forgot about it. As long as Brubaker stays with Cap, it'll be a sweet ride.

As long as Brubaker stays with the title, and gets artists that fit with the current style, keeping Epting/Perkins is looking great! I wonder if Alex Maleev would ever consider doing it? Or do you think he's tooo Daredevil for a Cap title?

I do remember reading something about how he's got Cap's stories planned up until issue 50. I just really hope that he can do it again for another 50! I'm tired of relaunches for Cap! There's FIVE volumes already! Enough, thanks. Just stick with this one.

Do you think they'll "return" the series to it's "original numbering"? It would probably just be too complicated, eh? Who knows.

Can you imagine how complicated Cap's life would be if Iron Man takes the reigns of SHIELD and Hydra registers with the SHRA? that would be ca-razay!

I seriously wonder what Arnim Zola is going to do for the Skull. Does anyone know what the last thing he did was? Was it making the Cap clone for him?

Oh man, what's going to happen to Cap?!?

[brundlefly]

I seriously wonder what Arnim Zola is going to do for the Skull. Does anyone know what the last thing he did was? Was it making the Cap clone for him?


The last task Zola performed for the Skull was creating duplicate bodies of the Skull, Mother Night and Crossbones, which were then left at the Skull's offices in Washington with bullets in all three of them to convince Cap and Hauptmann Deutschland (who was trying to bring the Skull to Germany to stand trial for war crimes in WWII) that the Skull and his crew were dead. Cap didn't buy it, of course. I think they made it look like Scourge was the one who "killed" them ('Justice is Served' was written on the wall next to Skull's clone-corpse).

Prior to popping up here in Cap recently, I think the last time Zola made an appearance in the MU was in early issues of THUNDERBOLTS, as his experiments gave Jolt her powers. He was a solo act during those issues, as opposed to being in the Skull's employ.

[Omega Alpha]

I hope Brubaker stays until #100 at least, he's doing an amazing job, he was the first writer that actually made me like a Cap. America ongoing.

I hope they don't kill Steve Rogers and leave someone to take over the uniform. I could see only the Winter Soldier or Hawkeye doing that, but i think that both need a lot of development alone right now, and can't afford to take the name of someone else.

[Magneto Rocks]

Do you think they'll "return" the series to it's "original numbering"? It would probably just be too complicated, eh? Who knows.

Knowing Marvel, they'll wait for an anniversary.

Which actually raises the question, where the heck is Cap in numbering anyway? Raises the question of whether to count World War II comics as well- what about post WWII with the "other" Cap? Very confusing but hopefully they make the effort.

I dunno if they SHOULD count the old ones... I suppose they counted the 83 issues minus Thor of "Journey into Mystery" for Thor's original numbering...

[oneasian]

I've been looking at Newsarama, and their daily reveals of the members of the New Avengers roster.

why are so many people convinced that Cap will don the guise of Ronin? Personally, I doubt it, because if that were the case, then Cap would have to be Ronin in his monthly title right?

AND doesn't that sound a bit off the mark for Cap's monthly?

If Cap does in fact become Ronin, the Red Skull wont really have to do anything to "destory everything he holds dear" because donning the new identity shows that Cap has lost faith in the dream - something that I highly doubt.

bottom line, I dont think Cap will become Ronin. that is, unless the "new" Ronin has a shield instead of nunchuks. I just think Cap as Ronin is a silly idea.

[Will.S]

I've been looking at Newsarama, and their daily reveals of the members of the New Avengers roster.

why are so many people convinced that Cap will don the guise of Ronin? Personally, I doubt it, because if that were the case, then Cap would have to be Ronin in his monthly title right?

AND doesn't that sound a bit off the mark for Cap's monthly?

If Cap does in fact become Ronin, the Red Skull wont really have to do anything to "destory everything he holds dear" because donning the new identity shows that Cap has lost faith in the dream - something that I highly doubt.

bottom line, I dont think Cap will become Ronin. that is, unless the "new" Ronin has a shield instead of nunchuks. I just think Cap as Ronin is a silly idea.
Cap fits the criteria Bendis put forth during the Newsarama feature but it could be somebody else. It all depends on Ronin's equipment but I am wondering about where Cap will be during Ed's Captain America and throughout the MU after CW.

So far the book has been a fantastic read month in and month out, hell even the specials were great so it's been consistent in quality. I'm also curious to see where Bucky goes in all this but I'm not 100% convinced that he will become the new Cap.

[oneasian]

Why does there even have to be a "new" Cap? why does everything think that Cap is going to stop being Cap after CW? i just dont see where that jump in logic is coming from.

[Wild Card13]

The notion comes from the widely held belief that at the end of Civil War, Cap will either be imprisoned, dead, or forced to abandon the identity for one reason or another. For instance, I think he'll be Ronin both due to criteria laid out by Bendis and because I think Cap will fake his death and hide behind the Ronin identity.

[mattbib]

I don't see Bru being interested in writing some new "Captain America."

[Omega Alpha]

I don't see Bru being interested in writing some new "Captain America."

Perhaps, but i think he'll write it anyway if that's the orders from Joe Q.

I personally think they should just leave the man alone.:)

[Den]

Perhaps, but i think he'll write it anyway if that's the orders from Joe Q.

I personally think they should just leave the man alone.:)

Agreed. Why screw with perfection? Bru's handle on Steve as Cap has been ace!

[mattbib]

Perhaps, but i think he'll write it anyway if that's the orders from Joe Q.
I don't think he would, which is why I don't think Joe would force such a been-there-done-that change on Bru.

[Pyro]

I'm really curious as to what will happen, too. It seems to me that all signs point to Cap taking up the Ronin disguise, but I don't see that happening in Brubaker's Cap. Plus, I'm not entirely sure Cap would be a good fit for the Ronin disguise.

[Jmacq1]

I don't see Bru being interested in writing some new "Captain America."

Normally I'd agree, except he's spent the last two years building up Winter Soldier to take a larger role in the Marvel Universe. To include having him do...a lot of the same things Cap normally does. Particularly in recent months.

But it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Comic books being comic books, Cap could be "Ronin" in New Avengers and still be Captain America in his monthly title.

My possible rationale? That he doesn't want the New Avengers publicly affiliated with him (due to the outcome of Civil War, his presence might be a severe liability), so he operates with them in "secret" as Ronin.

But in all truth, I'm finding it less and less likely that Cap's going to be viable as an active superhero in the MU after "Civil War". I'm thinking he'll either be dead or crippled, and very likely imprisoned if he is still alive.

[rwsmith]

Or perhaps Tony finds a way to depower Cap. Then, they grant him one of the twelve pardons and he runs for the Senate or even the Presidency and decides to try and change the SRA from within the system?

Just another theory.

[Jmacq1]

Given the 60-90% Approval Rating of the SHRA, Cap getting elected on an anti-SHRA ticket seems highly unlikely.

[oneasian]

so i just saw the final reveal for the lineup of the New Avengers on newsarama.com: http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=98053

and the fact that Cap ISN'T on the roster makes it almost certain that he will more than likely will be Ronin. Oh my god.

Why do people even think it's Clint Barton? When he comes back, he'll be Hawkeye, plain and simple. Of Clint and Cap, Cap is the only one, I think who was actually taken up different costumes when his ideals and foundations are shaken.

Right now, I have no idea what the future for Cap's monthly is. I'm both scared and excited. Scared because I don't know what's going to happen! Excited, because it seems like untread waters for Cap's book.

Perhaps Cap will be sent to prison ala Daredevil, and will spend some time in Rykers or even the Negative Zone prison only to eventually escape? If Cap could escape the Negative Zone prison, that would be a huuuge move on his part which could only happen later on in the year after a long build-up.

I've read somewhere that Mavel has big plans for Cap this year, so I'm very curious as to where this will all go.

I still can't imagine Cap as Ronin using ninja weapons and NOT his sheild. I also cannot imagine an Avengers book without Captain America.

what is happening to my reality?!?!

[Captain Exaggeration]

For the sake of Brubaker's run I wish Civil War had never happened. I've loving every moment of it. Anyway hopefully Cap won't vanish from his own title... if it does happen I hope they do a good job with Nick and Bucky. A Winter Soldier ongoing by Brubaker would rule... although Cap is still better.

[the Dagman]

I am leaning towards the idea of Cap becoming Ronin is where they are going. Cap is a smart guy and can see the larger picture. He knows the only way to end this Civil War is for Captain America to die. Hopefully such a death would be the trigger for the American public to wake up and see that the SHRA is wrong because it will not do what the people wanted, thinking it would keep them safe from harm in superhero fights.

I can see Cap enlisting Fury and Sharon to help him fake his death. The solicits on future ASM issues indicate that Spider-Man's guilt is caused by a sniper shot. So maybe they use Sharon as the trigger-girl, helping her to solidify her working relationship with Maria Hill.

So this is how I see it will go down. The fight during CW #7 spills out of 42 and onto Ryker's Island. Mayhem ensues with heroes and SHIELD agents everywhere. Sharon shoots Cap. Cap triggers blood packets to explode to simulate impact of the bullets. He also triggers a defibulator type device to temporarily stop his heart at the same time. He would need to appear to be really dead to fool Iron Man after all (internal sensors would pick up even a faint heartbeat). Then as the heroes stand about in shock, Nick Fury in disguise as a paramedic rushes to Cap only to pronounce him dead with Tony Stark right there to corraborate it. Nick loads up Cap's body into a helicopter and while an LMD flies it he restarts Cap's heart.

They land briefly and meet up with the Punisher with the 2 bodies Punisher killed in CW #6. Only one is dressed as a paramedic, the other in a Captain America uniform. They load the bodies onto the helicopter along with an explosive Punisher prepared. The LMD then flies the copter back out over the East River where it explodes in a huge fireball and crashes into the water. After the pro-reg heroes recover the wreckage the discover a couple of badly burned bodies, one wearing remnants of the Captain America chainmail tunic, and the genuine shield of Captain America.

Sure, the crash will look strange. But they won't think to look for a living Captain America after that since they all saw him get shot and Iron Man confirmed him to be dead. Cap will probably plan on operating in secret with Fury and only going into action wearing an all black outfit and all-over facemask. Once he finds out that the Ronin identity is vacant, he sees a way to get back into the Avengers without revealing he is still alive by taking the identity of someone already considered an Avenger. At this point Ronin will use the sword less and less until he switches to blunt weapons altogether.

[mushroom2703]

There is no jump in logic that cap. may not be "captain america" post-civil war. It makes sense, particularly considering his past actions regarding his disaproval of his country. If the pro-side goes through, that is not the america he wants to repesent or fly the flag for. He's ditched the costume before, and of all times, this would make sense to do so again. You could aruge that he would keep the costume on to represent the america he wants to get back, or fight for, but I'm thinking that might be Bucky's place in all of this. He'sa man out of time himself who's commited atrocities against his country for years and is seeking redemption. If cap ditches the suit, Bucky might pick up the mantle to redeem himself, and save steve's dream. And that doesn't mean Steve can't be a main character still in Bru's book,it just means more focus on Bucky, which he's getting alot of these days anyway. Sounds great imo. If I had to place my bets though, I think it might be a mix of that stuff alongside Cap suffering a very bad injury putting him out of the race for awhile.

As for Cap being Ronin, I really don't think thats the case. There's alot of legit possibilities in regards to who Ronini could be, and Cap's dealio is not ninja action. I expect alot of good in the future of cap's monthly.

[rwsmith]

Very good theory. Well thought-out.

[mushroom2703]

I was just thinking the same of yours in the other thread :P

[Sentinel K]

Why do people even think it's Clint Barton? When he comes back, he'll be Hawkeye, plain and simple. Of Clint and Cap, Cap is the only one, I think who was actually taken up different costumes when his ideals and foundations are shaken.



Kate Bishop is Hawkeye.

[John Nowak]

For the sake of Brubaker's run I wish Civil War had never happened.

Seconded. The whole working relationship between SHIELD and Cap felt nifty.

[PunisherFan]

I don't think they brought Hawkeye back to life just to dress up as Captain America, he's going to be Hawkeye. Cap will make it out of Civil War fine. I think Tony Stark is the one who's going to die in the finale. Shot in the head by The Punisher, I know what happened in issue 6 but that doesn't mean he can't show up to carry out some long-awaited punishment on the man who gains the most from the whole war

[Omega Alpha]

Stark will be the director of SHIELD.

[Holdyourfireal]

Marvel has a history of destroying the best Captain America teams due to marketing stunts. Remember Waid & Garney? Heroes Reborn....this time...Civil War. It's very sad. I hope I'm wrong.

[Kozemp]

The fact that there is no issue solicited after #25 does not bode well, methinks.

JLK

[brundlefly]

Marvel has a history of destroying the best Captain America teams due to marketing stunts. Remember Waid & Garney? Heroes Reborn....this time...Civil War. It's very sad. I hope I'm wrong.

That's what I'm afraid of, too. For all the common sense of "Well, the ongoing subplots in the solo book indicate that Cap will come out of CW alive and still Captain America, then face whatever the Skull has been planning," there is the possiblity that Joey Q/Bendis/Millar just don't care about Bru's plans for Cap's book and will let their "dissassembling" fetish keep spreading until it infects every MU character and title. Pity if that happens, as Bru's Cap run has been head and shoulders above this CW mess in terms of quality. But yeah, Waid/Garney vs. Heroes Reborn is a good comparison. Just hope it's not the shape of things to come.....

[Jmacq1]

I wouldn't be too sure that #25 is the last issue. It just might be delayed for some reason. Or the solicit was deliberately left off to make people wonder. ;)

[Pyro]

The fact that there is no issue solicited after #25 does not bode well, methinks.Yes there is. I've seen a solicitation for issue 26. The cover has Cap's villain's and allies on it.

[Will.S]

I think what alot of people seem to be forgetting about Ed is that he can take on pretty much any challenge you can throw at him.

Keep in mind that this is the same Ed Brubaker who had been handed the "Matt Murdock gets put into the slammer" card and created one of the coolest, most raw and emotional action packed DD stories in a while. And that's after Bendis's run which was very good in itself.

Then there's the whole "How will the whole Bucky comeback possibly make sense?" part of the Winter Soldier in which he covered all the bases one could possibly think of so I wouldn't worry about the book suffering in quality whatever happens to Steve.

[DoctorDoom]

A change (rather than a death) wouldn't be bad. Neither would it be the first time (John Walker for instance). Looking forward to what's next (or who's next)

[mushroom2703]

Just to keep y'all up to date, Joe Q explained in his joe fridays the reason for the absence of Cap in solicits. He stated that it was due to continuity issues and it would be necessary to hold cap's title back a month to match it up with other marvel titles story-wise. Looks like Bucky might meet the NA sooner rather than later ;) He also confirmed cap wouldn't die.

[CaptainCanada]

The fact that there is no issue solicited after #25 does not bode well, methinks.

JLK
#26 was solicited; Sharon, Bucky, and the Falcon along with Red Skull, Doctor Faustus, and Arnim Zola.

[oneasian]

if Captain America does don the guise of Ronin, which seems likely at this point, how do you think it will affect Cap's book?

and if he does take the Ronin disguise, how long do you think it will last for? The Iron Spidey outfit lasted just under a year I believe. And i think in my experience, when Cap was Nomad and the Captain, those lasted just less than a year as well, right?

I'm just going crazy waiting for the next Cap book and the next CW book.

oh man!

[StoneGold]

if Captain America does don the guise of Ronin, which seems likely at this point, how do you think it will affect Cap's book?


The first six issues of the book took place between Avengers Disassembled and New Avengers #1, despite the fact it was running concurrently with New Avengers #1. So possibly not at all.

[Mister Mets]

I believe Brubaker has the book mapped out to Issue 50, which makes me happy.

If Steve Rogers is no longer Captain America, the book may follow Bucky as Cap.

[Dusty.]

I can't see anybody else as Captain America.

I knew he wasn't dying, and it amazes me how people come up with conclusions that have absolutely no sense.

The future of Cap's title should remain on course as the single best comic series on the stands today. The best series in the last 20 years! Ed Brubaker and Steve Epting are definitive Cap. I can't wait for their upcoming storyline.

[anthony!]

I've been under the impression that Cap is captured at the end. It sort of looks like his body is being restrained in the preview art for New Avengers. Its the sequence with Dr. Strange's astral form spying on S.H.I.E.L.D.

I'm thinking that Clint Barton is indeed Ronin. 1.) He hesitated to let the Avengers know that he's alive and was reintroduced in the pages of New Avengers. 2.) I could buy him handling a sword before I could Cap, 3.) He's a friend of Cap's, hence the "masterless samurai" and 4.) I wouldn't be surprised if the New Avengers main mission is the rescuing of Captain America along with their investigation of S.H.I.E.L.D.

And don't forget World War Hulk. I just can't help but think that a lot of the angst between the heroes will be solved in that event, as the MU gathers to face the pissed off Hulk. I think by the end of that event will be the fully new status quo.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

2.) I could buy him handling a sword before I could Cap

I don't know what kind of sense that makes at all. Hawkeye is an excellent marksman, but that doesn't translate to swordplay. Cap has a serum in his body that makes him a perfect soldier, proficient in multiple forms of combat, firearms, and various forms of weaponry. In various Cap origin retellings, stories and profiles they present a good case that any and all forms of weaponry are within Cap's grasp. Hawkeye however was trained by the Swordsman, but not his the Swordsman's chosen art, in archery, because young Clint showed no ability with a blade, but had great natural talent with archery. I can see where one could have that feeling, but character history would make it seem unlikely, as Cap has weilded a sword before, and I'm not certain I've ever seen Clint and swords addressed other than in his origin where he seemed talentless at it. I could be wrong though,

[riotgear]

I don't know what kind of sense that makes at all. Hawkeye is an excellent marksman, but that doesn't translate to swordplay. Cap has a serum in his body that makes him a perfect soldier, proficient in multiple forms of combat, firearms, and various forms of weaponry. In various Cap origin retellings, stories and profiles they present a good case that any and all forms of weaponry are within Cap's grasp. Hawkeye however was trained by the Swordsman, but not his the Swordsman's chosen art, in archery, because young Clint showed no ability with a blade, but had great natural talent with archery. I can see where one could have that feeling, but character history would make it seem unlikely, as Cap has weilded a sword before, and I'm not certain I've ever seen Clint and swords addressed other than in his origin where he seemed talentless at it. I could be wrong though,

Taking into account the writer, though, Bendis has a habit of taking only the most surface portions of a character's past, "conveniently" forgetting the intracacies of a past story to fit a story he wants to tell.

[oneasian]

With Tuesday pretty much wrapped up, and CW #7 hitting the stands, are there any more predictions for the future of Cap's monthly?

I am totally dumbfounded and have no idea what's going to happen next.

Any thoughts?

[Kid Kamikaze10]

(I've read CW #7, but I will try not to spoil anything)

I don't think it's CW #7 that we should be worried about, but Fallen ? series and Cap's own title.

But seriously, if Cap dies, especially after everything that has happened in Civil War, and what the solicits have been hinting, I think I might reduce the amount of Marvel books I read by a large margin. I'm very ticked off.

[oneasian]

(I've read CW #7, but I will try not to spoil anything)

I don't think it's CW #7 that we should be worried about, but Fallen ? series and Cap's own title.

But seriously, if Cap dies, especially after everything that has happened in Civil War, and what the solicits have been hinting, I think I might reduce the amount of Marvel books I read by a large margin. I'm very ticked off.

How is it that so many people have already read the issue and have spoiler knowledge?

this is driving me crazy

[Leaper Queen]

By the way: What issues of Cap A. are the official CW tie-inns????

.

[forthepeople]

Cap was my first comic in the early 90s and so he has always been my favorite character. Volume 5 has been the best cap has ever been written and now he in jail. What the future for Steve Rogers and Captain America v5?

[Beast]

He's dead. Iron Man rips his heart out and feasts upon it in next week's Front Line.
Not! It's too early to tell, why not wait for Civil War: The Confession and Captain America #25 to find out?

[Expletive Deleted]

He becomes the Silver Agent.

[Den]

I don't know. A lot hinges on #25.... I maybe cancelling a subscription. I love Brubaker's writing, but I loathe the new status quo, and Cap is in the middle of it.

[Jmacq1]

My theory for Cap #25 (and beyond):

Cap starts out in prison, but somewhere along the way Nick Fury shows up to spring him, bringing with him evidence of the Red Skull's latest plot. During/after the escape, they run into the Skull's forces, and Nick Fury eats a bullet, the first victim in the Red Skull's campaign to destroy Cap and all he cares about.

Now Cap is unable to return to prison, because he knows he's the only one that can stop the Red Skull, so he goes on the run. The rest probably goes from there.

Or possibly Nick Fury uncovers the Skull's plot, but the Skull turns the table on him and kills him. Getting news of Nick's death is instead what spurs Cap into action.

Basically, Nick Fury not only meets the evidence presented by the "Fallen Son" solicits, but also explains why Bucky is "choosing his own side" in the next issue....

[marvelboi77]

I think Captain America is going to continue with the Punisher as Captain America.

[Cayman]

My theory for Cap #25 (and beyond):

Cap starts out in prison, but somewhere along the way Nick Fury shows up to spring him, bringing with him evidence of the Red Skull's latest plot. During/after the escape, they run into the Skull's forces, and Nick Fury eats a bullet, the first victim in the Red Skull's campaign to destroy Cap and all he cares about.

Now Cap is unable to return to prison, because he knows he's the only one that can stop the Red Skull, so he goes on the run. The rest probably goes from there.

Or possibly Nick Fury uncovers the Skull's plot, but the Skull turns the table on him and kills him. Getting news of Nick's death is instead what spurs Cap into action.

Basically, Nick Fury not only meets the evidence presented by the "Fallen Son" solicits, but also explains why Bucky is "choosing his own side" in the next issue....

That would be pretty cool.

[DoctorDoom]

Can't wait for what comes next!

[MAK15]

Can't wait for what comes next!

Me neither!
'specially now that Cap's in jail, I wonder what'll happen to his supporting cast? I mean, besides being targeted by his nemesis the Skull

[Pyro]

Am I the only one who thinks its kind of funny that Brubaker keeps getting the same deal with characters he writes? I can't believe he's put in this position again without hardly any choice. I'm not worried at all, I know he'll still write great stuff, I just think it's a little funny.

[static]

the Punisher hunts down Bucky the winter solider and tells him he has to take on the mantle of Captain America because the country NEEDS a Captain America to heal, to be inspired by. The Punisher obviously has a ton of respect for Cap and wouldnt fight him when Cap attacked him. Bucky reluctantly takes on the role untill Cap is out of SHEILD custody....

[ReigningBlood]

Static,

I'm thinking it's going to go down like you stated.

Bucky will end up taking the role of Captain America for a while.

[Mariah]

Am I the only one who thinks its kind of funny that Brubaker keeps getting the same deal with characters he writes? I can't believe he's put in this position again without hardly any choice. I'm not worried at all, I know he'll still write great stuff, I just think it's a little funny.
Yeah, I kinda noticed that too. I thought to myself, how is he gonna pull this one off.

[CaptainCanada]

Brubaker's said in interviews that the odds of anyone else donning the mantle are slim. I'm betting that Steve gets out of jail pretty quickly; there's still a Red Skull to fight, and, given the peculiarities of rogue's galleries (ie, heroes tend to have almost exclusive responsibility for dealing with certain villains), he's the only man for the job.

[MAK15]

the Punisher hunts down Bucky the winter solider and tells him he has to take on the mantle of Captain America because the country NEEDS a Captain America to heal, to be inspired by. The Punisher obviously has a ton of respect for Cap and wouldnt fight him when Cap attacked him. Bucky reluctantly takes on the role untill Cap is out of SHEILD custody....

does Castle even know Bucky's alive?
heck, does Spidey even know that Bucky's alive?

[BigBoss]

The only problem I have had with cap and ed was the drums of war arc. but yea I hope to god that Ed stays for issue up 100, and I feel that from the marvel previews intitave previews the prewview for issue 25 and 26 lead me to think of a death (with I hope to god doesent happen) r a missing cap for a while, witch if he goes missing why to get under shaodows for a while so everybody starts to forget bout him? only reason I can think of.

[Kirayoshi]

What I would love to see(and very likely won't) would be Captain America standing trial for violating the SHRA. It would be good for both sides of the CW. Steve would get his day in court and finally be able to air out his grievances regarding registration in a public forum, while Tony Stark(assuming that he has a brain in his head, which he must since he invented all his own tech) would be the first to openly support Steve's getting his day in court.

Brubaker could also work in a subplot regarding the more corrupt members of SHIELD(backed by the Skull of course) seeking to silence Cap before he has his say, leading Tony to drop some of his political naiveity and realize that the SHRA, for all its noble intentions, is flawed(and I do think it's a good idea, but the execution and enforcement of the Act became downright draconian). Maybe a year from now this would lead to a modification of the Act to something more manageable.

Oh, wait, I forgot, Joe Q wants the MU to be the most miserable comicbook universe around! Never mind, just bring on the Sentinels and cue the genocide!

[oneasian]

Oh, wait, I forgot, Joe Q wants the MU to be the most miserable comicbook universe around! Never mind, just bring on the Sentinels and cue the genocide!

I just had a crazy idea to make that possible: in the Avengers books, Ultron takes control over every single sentinel that has been made since HOM. That could do the genocide, and it would be an Avengers type-level threat.

totally off topic, but i thought it would be cool to mention.

i really can't wait for the next Cap issue. it looks like the future has a variant by Ed McGuinness in it:

http://media.comics.ign.com/media/804/804392/img_4345473.html

yay

[static]

Oh the Punisher knows the Winter Solider is out threre! the way Frank skullked around in the ski mask around the anti reg and pro reg camps it shows he knows the ins and outs of the marvel universe....Namor said he "heard" whispers of Buckys return in the winter solider -winter kills one shot....On newsarama in the civil war wrap up it said look to PunisherWar Journal for more on his picking up Caps mask and Cap #25 for the answers...both on sale the same day...

[DoctorDoom]

I think Captain America is going to continue with the Punisher as Captain America.
They did a 'What if' like that.

[Spider-Man]

I read this over at the message boards of CaptainAmerica.us.

I know, I'd never heard of the place either. It showed up during a Google I ran on "Captain America movie."

Anywho, a cat there claims #30 is the final issue. Is this the insane rambling of a rabid fanboy or the truth?

Spidey

[Maestro]

Of course not. The current arc which began in #25 is nine parts

[Spider-Man]

^^^Yes, but it was my understanding that will be counting the "Fallen Son" one-shots.

Spidey

[tavella]

Given that Brubaker has said that _Death of the Dream_ is a nine part story, I doubt there are plans to end the series at #30.

[Spider-Man]

I've also heard rumors of the series going back to original numbering, a la ASM.

Not sure what that would be, though..

Spidey

[CaptainCanada]

^^^Yes, but it was my understanding that will be counting the "Fallen Son" one-shots.

Spidey
That still wouldn't add up, because five issues of Fallen Son, plus five more issues of Cap, would equal ten, plus #25 to equal eleven.

[Beast]

I read this over at the message boards of CaptainAmerica.us.

I know, I'd never heard of the place either. It showed up during a Google I ran on "Captain America movie."

Anywho, a cat there claims #30 is the final issue. Is this the insane rambling of a rabid fanboy or the truth?

Spidey
You shouldn't believe what you read online.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Totally untrue. Death of the dream is 9 parts, as others have mentioned. The Fallen Son one-shots/series of titles is not associated with Death of the Dream beyond the fact that they are about the ramifications of Cap's death. The characters spotlighted in Fallen Son, Wolverine, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Cap, and both the New and Mighty Avengers team, are NOT in the Death of the Dream heavily, as it will deal with Bucky, Falcon, Sharon, Red Skull, Crossbones' and Cap's supporting cast and their reaction. Different stories, confirmed by the people at Marvel mutliple times. That guys wrong/full of it/crack pot. I don't know why he's spreading it, or how he got the info, but regardless of the origins, its bunk.

[Joe Acro]

...it will deal with Bucky, Falcon, Sharon, Red Skull, Crossbones' and Cap's supporting cast and their reaction.
Besides Nick fury, I think you've covered all the supporting cast.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Besides Nick fury, I think you've covered all the supporting cast.

Mostly, yeah, Fury, and some more villains, like Sin, Arnim Zola, Lukin (Skull's head/body mate) et. al.

[oneasian]

Brubaker has stated that he's got the book planned up until issue #50

[StoneGold]

And besides that, gee, let's cancel what has suddenly become the number one book overnight. That makes sense.

[Red State Cap]

I haven't yet seen anyone put forward a coherent theory on how things are going to go with the Cap title in the future, so I figured I'd take a crack at it. I've already posted some of my ideas elsewhere. To that I've added some other thoughts to kind of "round out" how I think things are going to be handled and why.
I wrote this for the Avengers Assemble board first, and I'm reposting it here pretty much verbatim.

Is Cap really dead, or not?
The short answer is "no." The long answer is "no, but Mr. Brubaker will do absolutely everything in his power to convinvce you he is for the better part of the next two years." Beyond that, I can't speculate on the particulars.

On the timing of Cap's return:
I believe that Mr. Brubaker intends the timing of Cap's return to be taken as meta political commentary against President Bush and the current state of America without necessarily spouting overt politics like, say, Mark Millar would.
Mr. Brubaker took over the title back in November '04, just after the '04 Presidential election. The title has been extremely punctual (outside of CW) which means that from the very beginning he knew that #50 would fall in Jan '09, just after President Bush leaves office. That is, if Mr. Brubaker could keep to schedule.
Civil War introduced unforseen delays, and currently #50 will fall in Summer of '09. Even as late as Summer '09 Cap's return probably would still be taken as timely meta political commentary, not to mention fodder for that Summer's mega-money crossover.
In the event of any further delay, watch whether Mr. Brubaker steps up the publication here and there to keep #50 on schedule for no later than Summer of '09. He might even pick up the pace to get back to a Jan '09 release. If you see this happening, I believe you can almost take it to the bank that Cap returns in #50, so keep your eyes peeled for any twice-monthly Cap releases.

On how the book will progress in the meantime:
Mr. Brubaker must be aware of the fact that the Cap fanbase won't be infinitely patient, even with him. The book is titled "Captain America," and without Cap in some shape or form, sales will suffer sooner rather than later. And sales are the point of this entire exercise. However good people think the writing is, fans simply aren't going to buy one year, two years, or whatever, of the Cap book just to see Sharon, Nick, and the Winter Soldier busting heads and angsting.
So ask yourself: what are Mr. Brubaker's options at this point?
1)Replacement Cap story. OK, it's an option, but is it really an option? In other words, is this story set up to work at this point? Older fans will remember the previous replacement Cap story by Gruenwald. In that story, Gruenwald carefully laid the groundwork over a year for John Walker to be the replacement. In this story, however, no such groundwork has been laid, with the very slight possible exception of the Winter Soldier. I also think that Mr. Brubaker wants to steer away from any perceptions that he's being derivative of Gruenwald's replacement Cap story.
Which brings us to "Bucky." Some have put forth the idea that "Bucky" will step in as Cap. I don't think this is going to happen, but I don't dismiss the idea out-of-hand either. I could make the argument that Mr. Brubaker may see it as further validating his resurrection of Bucky to have him step in as Cap. I can't really go farther than personal opinion here, but my feeling is still no, this isn't the case.
Due to the above reasons, I don't believe that "Replacement Cap" is going to be the direction of the book in the interim.
2)Continue to write the Captain America title without a Cap of any kind, just his supporting cast. Obviously this is a non-starter.
3)Go to a flashback-heavy format. This is my personal choice for how the book will be handled for the duration of this story. Flashback Cap stories still have rich potential for development, since surprisingly a lot of areas of Cap's life have never been touched on. WWII has almost limitless potential, both with and without the Invaders. Flashback Cap stories will give the fans a reason to buy the title while the hero is "dead" and the supporting cast works the problem in the modern day. I believe that the Invaders (in flashback) will become regulars. I believe that in particular Mr. Brubaker plans to develop Spitfire and Bucky both in flashback and in the modern day. He dropped some hints in "21st Century Blitz" and if I have learned anything from reading his book for the last two years, it's that when he drops a hint, it's for a reason.
Furthermore, fan reaction to these flashback stories could be a litmus test for the rumored "Invaders" series.
Of course, I don't believe he can keep up this format forever without the fans getting restless, but I do think he can and will stretch it for two years. In the meantime he will further put his personal stamp on Cap's backstory via flashback, further develop characters he wants to use in the now via flashback (namely Bucky and Spitfire), and finally make a little covert political commentary when he's done.

So...your thoughts?

RSC

[rogerio]

yeah...I think "The Death of Captain America" is a good chance to Ed Brubaker tell great stories with Buck (the Winter Soldier, please!:) ) and others....but I miss Cap already!

I really would like to see some cameos as well...who knows Black Widow and Taskmaster?

[Will.S]

Ed Brubaker was recently on the Around Comics podcast and they asked him what to expect for future Cap stories and he gave hints:


Ed Brubaker: Lots of messed up stuff (expletives replaced).

Sharon's got a big thing going on after issue #25, as all you guys must know if you've read it by now. She's in kind of a weird spot and there's a bunch of characters who sort of get set on a collision course basically and those would be like Sharon, Bucky, and Tony Stark and obviously the Red Skull whose sort of behind the scenes on all of this and there's some pretty messed up stuff coming up.

I've got Bucky fighting one of the Mighty Avengers in one of the upcoming issues thats like this amazing action scene that Epting drew. We learn some more about the Winter Soldier's history like when he was in Russia actually and we see Tony Stark really sort of feeling the guilt basically and getting sort of a note beyond the grave that's gonna really mess some stuff up for him.

[lonewolf23k]

Winter Soldier fights one of the Mighty Avengers, and we learn more about what happened to him while he was in the USSR...

Hmm... Winter Soldier vs the Black Widow?

[CaptainCanada]

So it seems Iron Man will have a prominent role in the book (from the looks of it, Sharon tries to hide her involvement for the time being, which would set up some interesting scenarios within SHIELD, since Tony is the boss now).

[Dusty.]

Thanks for posting that! Well, I figured Steve Epting would be drawing the Winter Soldier stuff, and from everything I've heard and read, it sure doesn't sound like there are any plans for Bucky to become "the new Captain America"...

(comeon, guys, how lame is that when you think it through?)

I find it interesting that Tony Stark is going to become a part of the series.

[HeckBoy]

I like the current creative team and I hope they stick around.

I know it's nitpicky, but I really wish they'd just shorten Bucky's codename to the "Soldier." I'm aware of the origins of the term Winter Soldier, but for me it conjures up images of the Soviet Union and/or some super-powered ice guy. Plus, I think it just gels better as a "patriotic hero" (as much as he's considered one nowadays anyway).

Also, I wish they'd give him a biologically regrown human arm. I'm not a fan of robotic appendages if it can be helped. They eventually just end up as hackneyed design elements with no real use. I wouldn't mind Bucky just being a top tier human athlete or maybe he could just get some of those same upgrades the Black Widow has (without the metal arm of course).

[rogerio]

Winter Soldier fights one of the Mighty Avengers, and we learn more about what happened to him while he was in the USSR...

Hmm... Winter Soldier vs the Black Widow?

WOW...!!!:) :) :)
I love Black Widow...she's been one of my top 3, if not my favorite character, forever.

Natasha probably has as much fight ability and experience than Bucky...this confront will be awesome!
and I cant wait to see Steve Epting and Mike Perkins drawing her...:)

[Kid Kamikaze10]

This is a copy of the post I made in "Red Skull: Destroyer of the Initiative" (it's in the Marvel Universe forum).

The newest Wizard magazine had an interview with Brubaker, and he explain that killing Captain America was hardly the endgame for Red Skull/Lukin, and America (especially post-CW) is their main target, hence "The Death of a Dream".


Captain America was just the beginning. The one thing Red Skull and General Lukin agree on is that they want to see America destroyed. Before the Skull and the Cosmic Cube, Lukin was already manipulating himself into a position of leverage among political groups around the world. He's one of the most powerful men in the world in some ways. The Skull is taking advantage of the distraction of Civil War so he can use that power to really screw up America.

Does this mean that the Initiative could be affected by Red Skull's antics? Could he be the first of probably many villains to exploit the weaknesses of a government-ran Superhero army? Could this lead up to all the stuff that Cap originally was against in CW (the government telling the heroes who their enemies are, even if their motives are far from morally just)?

[Kirk G]

Do you think that Arim Zola (scientist who cloned a new body for the Red Skull) will try to clone a new body for Captain America...and that instead of going to house the Red Skull, it will become the NEW CAPTAIN AMERICA???

[Will.S]

Winter Soldier fights one of the Mighty Avengers, and we learn more about what happened to him while he was in the USSR...

Hmm... Winter Soldier vs the Black Widow?
I figure it has to be, she and Bucky would have one of the coolest sniper to sniper or regular hand to hand battles.


Thanks for posting that! Well, I figured Steve Epting would be drawing the Winter Soldier stuff, and from everything I've heard and read, it sure doesn't sound like there are any plans for Bucky to become "the new Captain America"...

(comeon, guys, how lame is that when you think it through?)

I find it interesting that Tony Stark is going to become a part of the series.
Yeah I'm glad that Bucky isn't going that route although I can still see him as Nick Fury's right hand man in the same cool way it happened during the Civil War spotlight issues.

[Frank]

I totally forgot about the use of a fill-in artist for the run so far. The art just fit so well that I totally forgot about it. As long as Brubaker stays with Cap, it'll be a sweet ride.

As long as Brubaker stays with the title, and gets artists that fit with the current style, keeping Epting/Perkins is looking great! I wonder if Alex Maleev would ever consider doing it? Or do you think he's tooo Daredevil for a Cap title?

I do remember reading something about how he's got Cap's stories planned up until issue 50. I just really hope that he can do it again for another 50! I'm tired of relaunches for Cap! There's FIVE volumes already! Enough, thanks. Just stick with this one.

Do you think they'll "return" the series to it's "original numbering"? It would probably just be too complicated, eh? Who knows.

Can you imagine how complicated Cap's life would be if Iron Man takes the reigns of SHIELD and Hydra registers with the SHRA? that would be ca-razay!

I seriously wonder what Arnim Zola is going to do for the Skull. Does anyone know what the last thing he did was? Was it making the Cap clone for him?

Oh man, what's going to happen to Cap?!?

I want Brubaker and Maleev on Iron Man.

[rogerio]

I figure it has to be, she and Bucky would have one of the coolest sniper to sniper or regular hand to hand battles.
.


yeah...agree!
The Black Widow is a amazing fighter and probably she'll be teaching Winter Soldier one thing or two...:)

[killerbass]

That Doom/Skull encounter has been my only problem with the series so far.

You may have a problem with it, but I bought one of those pages from Mike Perkins... and it's fabulous. :D

--Tom

http://homepage.mac.com/tmckenna/Sites/CaptainAmerica23Page21.jpg

[killerbass]

Winter Soldier fights one of the Mighty Avengers, and we learn more about what happened to him while he was in the USSR...

Hmm... Winter Soldier vs the Black Widow?

Yeah, that's jives with what Mike Perkins told me at MegaCon...

--Tom

[rogerio]

Yeah, that's jives with what Mike Perkins told me at MegaCon...

--Tom


you lucky b#$¨@&*!!!!:) :) :)

[Will.S]

You may have a problem with it, but I bought one of those pages from Mike Perkins... and it's fabulous. :D

--Tom

http://homepage.mac.com/tmckenna/Sites/CaptainAmerica23Page21.jpg
That is an awesome page, Mike Perkins rocks.

[oneasian]

I think the fact that Marvel is keeping Captain America' ongoing title ongoing is a pretty good sign that he'll be back eventually.

[Dusty.]

Well, Brubaker clearly states in his recent podcast that NOBODY will be taking over the Cap mantle any time soon, so that tells me that it's being held for Steve Rogers. I knew that Bucky stuff wasn't going to happen, and it makes me wonder why anybody would even consider that Marvel would "kill" the mega popular Winter Soldier and shoehorn him into Cap's costume??? Why was THIS a "logical progression of the storyline" as so many were claiming?

Steve Epting draws the most amazing covers, and the thing that I like about Cap's covers, as opposed to, say, Daredevil, is that Epting's covers reflect the story content. You can at least get a sense of who is in the story. These covers for Cap 25-27 could be helpful in determining the direction.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v217/Marvelpics/capcovers.jpg

[Dooby Doo!]

Yeah Epting rules!


I trust Brubaker and I think he's gonna pull off a Cap book without him for the time being. My instinct tells me the book is gonna be more of a anthology book until Steve Roger's return.

[oneasian]

any idea when the next issue is set to come out?

[CaptainCanada]

any idea when the next issue is set to come out?
May 23rd, after Fallen Son wraps up.

[oneasian]

May 23rd, after Fallen Son wraps up.

2 more months? that stings

[Dusty.]

2 more months? that stings

It's only a month and a half, and I agree, it does suck, but in the meantime, we get the 5 part Fallen Son mini series that's almost a weekly comic to tide us over.

Which reminds me, I still haven't been to my LCS to get my new comics, and Fallen Son and Avengers: Initiative are on top of my reading list.

[rogerio]

Yeah Epting rules!


I trust Brubaker and I think he's gonna pull off a Cap book without him for the time being. My instinct tells me the book is gonna be more of a anthology book until Steve Roger's return.


yeah...Captain America is one of my all-time favorite characters and I have no words to say thanks to Ed Brubaker, Steve Epting, Mike Perkins and Frank D'armata...:)

[Jmacq1]

"Nobody will be taking over the Cap mantle anytime soon."

You all do realize that "Death of the Dream" is going to encompass nearly a year by the time it's all said and done right?

I'd say 9-12 months from now would no longer qualify as "anytime soon" in the world of comic books. You know, where most creative teams don't last longer than 6 or 12 issues on any given title? Heck, they can throw 3-6 more issues involving (for example) Bucky/Winter Soldier coming to accept the fact that he's the only guy for the role. That'd make it over a year before anyone "takes over the Cap mantle" which is practically eons in comic-time.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Steve Rogers is officially "back" by the end of this current storyline I'll gladly eat my fair share of crow. Unlike some posters around here, I'm not ashamed to admit when I'm wrong.

[rogerio]

there is a new page of Cap # 25 here:
http://www.marvel.com/blogs/Tom_Brevoort/entry/716

who is "driving" that car? Black Widow?

[rogerio]

Snakes on the road:
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/july07/images/Capt_28.jpg

CAPTAIN AMERICA #28
Written by ED BRUBAKER
Pencils by STEVE EPTING & MIKE PERKINS
Cover by STEVE EPTING
Meet the New Serpent Squad, their leader -- Sin, the daughter of the Red Skull! And now as the world still reels from the tragic assassination of Captain America, the Skull and his minions begin to put their plans into motion, to deadly effect! And as the Falcon and Nick Fury hunt for the Winter Soldier, new director of S.H.I.E.L.D., Tony Stark, gets a message from beyond the grave...
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$2.99

[chrismileslord]

Snakes on the road:
http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/july07/images/Capt_28.jpg

CAPTAIN AMERICA #28
Written by ED BRUBAKER
Pencils by STEVE EPTING & MIKE PERKINS
Cover by STEVE EPTING
Meet the New Serpent Squad, their leader -- Sin, the daughter of the Red Skull! And now as the world still reels from the tragic assassination of Captain America, the Skull and his minions begin to put their plans into motion, to deadly effect! And as the Falcon and Nick Fury hunt for the Winter Soldier, new director of S.H.I.E.L.D., Tony Stark, gets a message from beyond the grave...
32 PGS./Rated T+ …$2.99

this looks good, but I am getting a little worried.

[rogerio]

why?:( :( :(

[rogerio]

double post...sorry.

[rogerio]

wow...am I alone here?:mad:

guys, another awesome Epting page here:
http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF44art/CAPA026010_col.jpg

Steve Epting rules! I am having so much fun reading Iron Fist and Daredevil but Captain America is the best ongoing being published today.
I cant wait to see Black Widow by Steve...!!!:)

[tavella]

wow...am I alone here?:mad:

guys, another awesome Epting page here:
http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF44art/CAPA026010_col.jpg


Nah, not alone. I'm glad to see at least *some* of the MU US population aren't completely ungrateful jerks.

[Nomad]

OMG, I'm going to enjoy this so much.

[BigBoss]

the serpent squad looks real 80s lame.