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Haunt
01-09-2007, 07:05 PM
am i correct in thinking that Pym first appeared in Tales to Astonish; some time in the 60s? i ask because, by pure chance, i found these links to a book supposedly put out in the 50s. you'll understand after looking at the links (hopefully).


http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page1&issue=55769191033%2057

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=page2&issue=55769191033%2057

isn't that weird? could Hank actually be using an alias/actually be Perry Moore?

Tater
01-09-2007, 07:11 PM
It says thats not Pym. But it is a close resemblence.

Will.S
01-09-2007, 07:44 PM
I'm guessing that they either based Pym on him or they didn't know that this character was around and it was an amazing coincidence. Either way that's a pretty interesting find there Haunt.

mattx110
01-09-2007, 07:46 PM
maybe the first one didn't catch on so they reused the origin. that sorta thing has happened before. the deadman series out now has nothing to do with boston, and there are quite a few pulp characters from the 80s made to emulate characters from the 30s and 40s.

stan lee strikes me as the type of person that wouldn't let an earlier attempt at a character dissuade him from doing it again.

StoneGold
01-09-2007, 07:52 PM
Crap, we've got a deadline in three days. Hey Jack, remember that crap we did a couple years ago with the guy in the ant hill? Let's do that again, but give him a stupider name this time.



Seriously, have you ever met a Pym?

Haunt
01-09-2007, 08:24 PM
Crap, we've got a deadline in three days. Hey Jack, remember that crap we did a couple years ago with the guy in the ant hill? Let's do that again, but give him a stupider name this time.



Seriously, have you ever met a Pym?

i was just hoping that someone knew who wrote the original story.

mattbib
01-09-2007, 08:30 PM
i was just hoping that someone knew who wrote the original story.
I just checked all the databases I know of, but had no luck...

Interesting find, though.

EDIT: Haunt, you should actually post this same question in the Classic Comics forum. If anyone at CBR knows, someone there will...

Haunt
01-09-2007, 08:40 PM
I just checked all the databases I know of, but had no luck...

Interesting find, though.

EDIT: Haunt, you should actually post this same question in the Classic Comics forum. If anyone at CBR knows, someone there will...

great idea! thanks!

Kirk G
01-10-2007, 12:10 PM
I just checked all the databases I know of, but had no luck...
Interesting find, though.
Haunt, you should actually post this same question in the Classic Comics forum. If anyone at CBR knows, someone there will...

Haunt,
Please be sure to post or share anything that you learn from Classic Comics forum here for the rest of us as well, OK?

As for this "Trapped in the Ant Hill" story.... it sounds very familiar to me. I believe I have read reports of this story being brought to light before. I don't think this is anything new, but every few years, people "discover" it or similar stories or characters that are similar to current characters Stan and Jack developed before the FF took off in 1961.

One of the most recent waves of "rediscovery" led to notations being added to the Overstreet listings for some of the early Marvel/Atlas books "prototype Doom" "Prototype Sandman" "Prototype Ant-Man", etc
There was a backlash by some fans who claimed this was simply a move to increase the perceived value of these books AND to sell the latest edition of Overstreet. But the arguement somewhat faded away.

Not to pop your bubble, but I am reminded of something Ray Manzarick and Danny Sugarman said about Jim Morrison and The Doors... That about every ten to 20 years, a new generation discover The Doors, and their popularity, lps, and concert videos resurge. It may be a similar function in comic fans too, as interest in monsters, superheroes, and other genre tend to repeat, and characters/books are resurrected after 20 years for a new generation and to the delight of older fanboys who remember the originals and buy the new incarnation to be completists.

For my own part, I recall that Ant-Man and the Atom were introduced about the same time, and just after that classic sci-fi movie "The Incredible Shrinking Man" was released. THAT movie probably inspired more of this comic creation than anything else. It was a simpler, more innocent time...:rolleyes:

Nevets F
01-10-2007, 12:50 PM
That is a really interesting find. I hope someone has some info on this, it has to have been brought up somewhere before.

Haunt
01-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Haunt,
Please be sure to post or share anything that you learn from Classic Comics forum here for the rest of us as well, OK?


a scholarly individual from the Classics board was kind enough to answer my question. here is the post. looks like it was Stan Lee, afterall.



You've stumbled onto one of the many "prototype" issues that are to be found in the early Marvel/Atlas monster-horror titles. Stan Lee was the writer of these stories, and he often re-used ideas or took a promising concept (like shrinking) and developed it a little differently. Heck, the guy was cranking out a phenomenal number of scripts single-handedly.

Overstreet is very good about noting prototype issues; this issue, Mystic #57, is noted as being "very similar" to Tales to Astonish #27, the first Ant-Man story, as Aaron noted.

The surname "Pym" must have been a favorite of Stan's. My recollection is that it appears more than a few times in these hundreds of monster stories Stan wrote in the late '50s and early '60s. Perhaps he was inspired by The Narrative of A. Gordon Pym, the novel by Edgar Allan Poe. Who knows?

Michi

XPac
01-10-2007, 01:57 PM
Perry Moore probably got a nervours breakdown or some kind of weird lab accident and created this alternate "Pym" identity for himself.

Haunt
01-10-2007, 02:03 PM
Perry Moore probably got a nervours breakdown or some kind of weird lab accident and created this alternate "Pym" identity for himself.

i think that would be hilarious. it's not like we've gotten Pym's origin from anyone but Pym, himself. i remember a flashback of him losing it in Hungaria because his wife had gone missing. he had a bandage around his head. maybe Pym had undergone a face transplant/gotten a new identity around that time. or maybe it was amnesia. or maybe Perry Moore is really Doc Nemesis.

Izzycow
01-10-2007, 02:22 PM
i have both tales to astonish. They call that scientist hank pym by name, and in ant mans origin they play back to that story, saying such a achievement cannot be wasted, so he uses it again to make ant man.

ill load scans if you want em

Kirk G
01-10-2007, 02:39 PM
a scholarly individual from the Classics board was kind enough to answer my question. here is the post. looks like it was Stan Lee, afterall.

Thanks, Haunt. MichicoS was much more concize than I was.
He was on the mark about the "prototypes".

Also, keep mind that as Stan is cranking out these stories, his memory wasn't (and still isn't) the greatest... so sometimes not only did he forget which names he had used before, but whether he had even done this story before.

In hindsight, we like to point to antecidents and "prototypes", seeing a relationship after the fact. But at the time Stan would have written the "Trapped in the Anthill" story, Stan had NO idea where the idea was going to lead. Ditto, when he wrote the first Henry Pym story in Tales to Astonish #36, he had not idea that he was going to revisit the story and continue the character...as a SUPERHERO...!!! At the time, he said they saw the sales figures from that issue, and decided to try to play on the concept some more...

(But in the long run, possibly because of changing artists, or characters who were only one dimensional, the Antman/Giantman/Wasp concept didn't have legs for more than two years at best. For a GREAT article on the Ant-Man history, look up a recent back issue of The Jack Kirby Collector. Someone (I don't recall the author's name) really did their homework on the Tales to Astonish hero, and developed a several page article with specific examples of the characters, stories, plots and failures of the pre-Avengers use of the characters. I HIGHLY RECOMMEND SEEKING IT OUT.)
And finally, for more on Hank Pym and his eventual breakdown, look at Earth's Mightiest Heroes II #3-4-5, which has just come out!

Haunt
01-10-2007, 04:31 PM
i have both tales to astonish. They call that scientist hank pym by name, and in ant mans origin they play back to that story, saying such a achievement cannot be wasted, so he uses it again to make ant man.

ill load scans if you want em

thanks but i've already read his origin and own the Essential Ant-Man collection. i was more curious about this story in Mystic that appeared, chronologically, before the Tales to Astonish story. the scientist is this one was named Perry Moore.