Characters Fables can't use

[The Nuke]

I just jumped on the Fables band wagon, love it so far, but I was just wondering what Fables Willingham can't use?

IGN had Pan and Hook as unusable though they did appear in flashback form.What about the Lord of the Rings and King Arthur characters? Granted I've only read Volume 1,2, 5, and 1001 nights. I'me just interested in who's available and who isn't.

[Schornforce]

The only ones unavailable as far as I know are anyone still owned by copyrights (i.e. Peter Pan, Narnia characters (although Aslan made an appearance, he was not named), etc.) or simply anyone who doesn't fit in with the vision/universe Willingham wants (i.e. DCU characters, other Vertigo characters, etc.)

[Rob on the Job]

I just jumped on the Fables band wagon, love it so far, but I was just wondering what Fables Willingham can't use? ...

I think Bill Willingham has stated previously that a character must in the public domain -- and that means the public domain in every place "Fables" is sold.

For instance, Peter Pan is in the public domain in the US but not in Britain [its rights were bequeathed by James Barrie to a hospital], so that leaves Pan out of the running for the nonce.

[jerrymcl89]

Tolkien's characters are definitely not in the public domain, and thus unavailable. Obviously, Arthurian characters, being many centuries old, are fair game.

I don't know what the exact cutoff for public domain is, but anything that goes back to the nineteenth century or earlier would be available.

[twilight]

I think Bill Willingham has stated previously that a character must in the public domain -- and that means the public domain in every place "Fables" is sold.

For instance, Peter Pan is in the public domain in the US but not in Britain [its rights were bequeathed by James Barrie to a hospital], so that leaves Pan out of the running for the nonce.

Pan's lapsing into the public domain this year so Willingham could use him soon if he wanted to.

[Blake Petit]

Tolkien's characters are definitely not in the public domain, and thus unavailable. Obviously, Arthurian characters, being many centuries old, are fair game.

I don't know what the exact cutoff for public domain is, but anything that goes back to the nineteenth century or earlier would be available.

It's different in different countries. In the U.S. (unless they changed it again while I wasn't looking) the law states that copyrights expire 75 years after the death of the creator.

[Matt Linton]

It'd be interesting to see the Endless pop up.

[dancj]

The only ones unavailable as far as I know are anyone still owned by copyrights (i.e. Peter Pan, Narnia characters (although Aslan made an appearance, he was not named), etc.) or simply anyone who doesn't fit in with the vision/universe Willingham wants (i.e. DCU characters, other Vertigo characters, etc.)
Wasn't the Snow Queen a Narnia character?

[Pennyghost]

There was also a Snow Queen in the Hans Christian Andersen fairy tales, so it's not like Narnia invented her. (besides I wouldn't be surprised if there are even older Snow Queen stories)

[Dr. Killbydeath]

Isn't the Narnia character the Snow Witch?

[Schornforce]

No. The White Witch was from Narnia. The character Mr. Willingham is using is from the same fairy tale as Kay.

[filthysize]

I'm looking forward for Willingham to tap into more obscure third world country fables. There are some great African, Indian or Indonesian fairy tale characters out there.

[flapjaxx]

Tolkien's characters are definitely not in the public domain, and thus unavailable. Obviously, Arthurian characters, being many centuries old, are fair game.

I don't know what the exact cutoff for public domain is, but anything that goes back to the nineteenth century or earlier would be available.

Fables could go on for 300 more years, and I doubt would never be able to use LOTR characters or Mickey Mouse. Not in America anyway. The politicians keep getting bought off, if not literally than figuratively: they keep buying the sob-stories of already-wealthy-enough-for-doing-nothing descendants. If characters are very profitable for an evil multi-national corporation like Disney (...) then they will see to it that the cutoff date keeps getting pushed back indefinitely. (Thanks, Sonny Bono.) They have already extended it repeatedly.

If anyone's interested in this there's a great book called "The Copywrights: Intellectual Property and the Literary Imagination" done by Paul Saint-Amour.

And don't forget that Disney's scientists are still working tirelessly to reincarnate Walt. Once he wakes all the counting-down clocks get reset.

[dancj]

No. The White Witch was from Narnia. The character Mr. Willingham is using is from the same fairy tale as Kay.
Ah - Okay


I'm looking forward for Willingham to tap into more obscure third world country fables. There are some great African, Indian or Indonesian fairy tale characters out there.
In the Homelands tpb (which I read last week) there was some comment that the European Fable worlds had been conquered and the Middle Eastern ones were being started on, and that the Chinese ones might be reached in a 100 or so years (or something along those lines) so I think we're mainly just going to be seeing European and Middle Eastern ones.

[Kirayoshi]

Pan's lapsing into the public domain this year so Willingham could use him soon if he wanted to.
I thought the hospital Barrie had willed the rights to had commissioned a sequel called "Peter Pan in Scarlet" so they could retain the rights to Pan.

[Blake Petit]

In the Homelands tpb (which I read last week) there was some comment that the European Fable worlds had been conquered and the Middle Eastern ones were being started on, and that the Chinese ones might be reached in a 100 or so years (or something along those lines) so I think we're mainly just going to be seeing European and Middle Eastern ones.

Well, Willingham says he wants to keep Fables going as long as he can, so I don't think it'd be too hard to eventually get around to Asian Fables. That's the great thing about this series -- every culture on the planet, every culture that's ever been on the planet, is a potential wellspring of characters for him.

[Mr. Croup]

Anansi and Monkey would two interesting ones to show up.

[Neeb]

Although, technically all the ghosts in Japan with long, black hair covering their faces are copyrighted. That said, the image is used so often that so long as one of them made an appearance in Fables but was never specifically identified, Willingham could get away with its use.

[Keaton]

I think it would be terrifically hard for Willingham to use characters from Greek, Norse, Egyptian, or even Arthurian myth because these names are widely known and wouldn't work as secondary characters.

Some others that might work/be cool to see: Beowulf, Puck (from Midsummer Night's Dream - ala The Sandman)

I would absolutely love it if Don Quixote made an appearance.

[saintsaucey]

who is the charachter they are portraying as rose red, snow whites sister. never heard of her before unles its suposed to be little red riding hood. ii have only read the first trade so pleas don't spoil too much

[dancj]

I think it would be terrifically hard for Willingham to use characters from Greek, Norse, Egyptian, or even Arthurian myth because these names are widely known and wouldn't work as secondary characters.

Has fables used any mythical characters - as in ones that were passed down as true stories in their respective cultures? All of the characters I can think of are (and always have been as far as I'm aware) undisputed fictional characters

[dancj]

who is the charachter they are portraying as rose red, snow whites sister. never heard of her before unles its suposed to be little red riding hood. ii have only read the first trade so pleas don't spoil too much
Nothing to spoil. Apparently if you go back to the original version of Snow White (as much as there is one) she has a sister called Rose Red

[rwe1138]

Nothing to spoil. Apparently if you go back to the original version of Snow White (as much as there is one) she has a sister called Rose Red
Yup. Click here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Red).

[Mr. Croup]

Although, technically all the ghosts in Japan with long, black hair covering their faces are copyrighted. That said, the image is used so often that so long as one of them made an appearance in Fables but was never specifically identified, Willingham could get away with its use.

Its a legend, and you can't copywrite a legend.

[The Lucky One]

Nothing to spoil. Apparently if you go back to the original version of Snow White (as much as there is one) she has a sister called Rose Red

Well, sort of. There were two "Snow White" tales in the original book (the Brothers Grimm, I want to say? Not positive), but they were never intended to be the same Snow White; their names (in the original German) were even spelled slightly different. One had the famous adventure with the dwarves, the other -- with her sister, Rose Red -- had a much more obscure story involving a bear, I think, and a gnome or troll or something. In creating Fables, Willingham simply combined the two Snow Whites into one and threw Rose Red into the mix.

-D

[The Adventurer]

Has fables used any mythical characters - as in ones that were passed down as true stories in their respective cultures? All of the characters I can think of are (and always have been as far as I'm aware) undisputed fictional characters

Weyley Smith is part of the Norse pantheon. I think.

[dancj]

Well, sort of. There were two "Snow White" tales in the original book (the Brothers Grimm, I want to say? Not positive), but they were never intended to be the same Snow White; their names (in the original German) were even spelled slightly different. One had the famous adventure with the dwarves, the other -- with her sister, Rose Red -- had a much more obscure story involving a bear, I think, and a gnome or troll or something. In creating Fables, Willingham simply combined the two Snow Whites into one and threw Rose Red into the mix.

Ah - I didn't know that. And yes I think they are Grimm stories. IIRC they're Paradox Press's The Big Book of Grimm which I've got sitting unread at home

[ultramandingo]

......id like to see a easter bunny and jesus two in one. xplain the whole choclate egg thing

[vazel]

......id like to see a easter bunny and jesus two in one. xplain the whole choclate egg thing:rolleyes:

[Sean Walsh]

I think Bill Willingham has stated previously that a character must in the public domain -- and that means the public domain in every place "Fables" is sold.

For instance, Peter Pan is in the public domain in the US but not in Britain [its rights were bequeathed by James Barrie to a hospital], so that leaves Pan out of the running for the nonce.

IIRC (and I'm sure a simple Google or Wikipedia search will confirm or deny this) wasn't Pan supposed to be the Adversary at some stage of FABLES' existance, but the public domain issues helped keep that from happening?

[vazel]

Yes, Peter Pan was a bad guy that abducted kids and Captain Hook was the good guy. Captain Hook's character design would become Bluebeard.

[snarkbunny]

Ah - I didn't know that. And yes I think they are Grimm stories. IIRC they're Paradox Press's The Big Book of Grimm which I've got sitting unread at home

"Snow White and Rose Red" can be found here on the SurLaLune Site (http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/rosered/index.html)