Civil War #7 delayed to Feb. 21st

[scouse mouse]

http://www.marvel.com/catalog/?date=2007-02-21

Its been put back till the 21st of February. I just wish this thing would hurry up and end already!

[Magneto Rocks]

Marvel I've stuck by you in everything so far but this... this is INSANE. If this really is delayed until late February, I say screw it and use a fill in. I love Civil War but this cannot be worth this.

[ivesaidway2much]

No surprise there. But I did call it on the poll.

[Beast]

WHat happened to Marvel/Millar saying there would be no further delay for Issue #7?

[Red Lotus]

Anytime they hint at a delay, then there is a 150% chance that it is going to be delayed.

[MAK15]

at least they havent delayed anything else along with it.
and who knows? maybe they'll add pages to it for fighting and kicking and super-hero hair pulling!

[scouse mouse]

at least they havent delayed anything else along with it.
and who knows? maybe they'll add pages to it for fighting and kicking and super-hero hair pulling!

Im concerned that New Avengers 27 is going to be delayed again. Ive been waiting over a year to read an Elektra story and I wil be fuming if i have to wait any longer!:mad:

[Magneto Rocks]

Actually, they delayed FF, Frontline, ASM and presumably the ENTIRE post-CW line along with it.

It's only 3 weeks, not as bad as I originally thought. INCREDIBLY annoying but worth it. Any more though and I'm out.

[Alan2099]

THIS STORY IS NEVER GOING TO END! EVER! IT'S JUST GOING TO KEEP GOING AND GOING GETTING WORSE AND MORE NONSENSICAL WITH EVERY ISSUE THAT DOESN'T COME OUT ON TIME ANYWAY!

ARGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!

...
...

Okay. Got that out of my system. I feel bet-- SPEEDBALL WHAT DID THEY DO TO YOU!?!

no. Seriously. I mean it this time. I'm good this time.

[TotalWorldDomination]

This is totally insane. What the heck! Yes, I appreciate the good art, and NO I don't want fill-in artists, but at this point it's no longer about giving McN and Milliar time to finish- it's poor planning.

[Psyco panda]

So as of today, the Civil War Delay count is currently : 3 months, one week.

Correct?

[MAK15]

Im concerned that New Avengers 27 is going to be delayed again. Ive been waiting over a year to read an Elektra story and I wil be fuming if i have to wait any longer!:mad:

I wanna see the new muther ****in avengers!

[IamtheRock3]

it be funny if 52 finish before cival war


I bolded the number 52 to drive the drive the point how big a delay that would

its getting up there

[wulfstone]

BOOOOOO Down with this sort of thing!!

[Jake V]

God damnit, why can't they just release the book with unfinished art and coloring? At least it would be on time.

They could just release the finished version in the trade. No one would have a problem with that.

[ivesaidway2much]

God damnit, why can't they just release the book with unfinished art and coloring? At least it would be on time.

They could just release the finished version in the trade. No one would have a problem with that.
Yeah I know, imagine someone actually expecting a person to do their job on time. Clearly that's completely unreasonable.

[The Confessor]

So as of today, the Civil War Delay count is currently : 3 months, one week.

Correct?

Sweet Jesus and the orphans!!! What the f***?!!?!

Is this right?!

I love Civil War, and I do mean love...but this is outrageous! All these delays are really starting to annoy me now.

Grrrrrrrrrr....:evilangry

[genesis]

Ok I must say this is f***ing bull**** I mean come on first delay I wasn't upset because i knew the others would be out on time, but no there was another delay again upset but figured two in one month would be great, but getting almost another month delay I call bull. This means the last tie-ins won't be out until this and then the whole post civil war will be delayed I will say that planet hulk will not have my participation at all. At least with DC they got the story out to you in a reasonable amount of time. And 52 has had no delays what so ever come on Marvel pick up your F***ing game.

[Fatguy]

Wow, the tension dial is cranked awfully high in here....Its just February 21st, not like its getting a delay of Wildcats proportions. Besides, didnt #6 just come out this last week?? Really, January 3rd to February 21st isnt exactly grounds to jump off a building.

[Jmacq1]

Wow, the tension dial is cranked awfully high in here....Its just February 21st, not like its getting a delay of Wildcats proportions. Besides, didnt #6 just come out this last week?? Really, January 3rd to February 21st isnt exactly grounds to jump off a building.

It isn't exactly like this is the first delay, either. It's a pattern of misconduct. If most people missed this many deadlines they'd be out of a job.

I was initially optimistic, but once Marvel made their comments last week about "updating the shipping situation on Tuesday" I knew it was curtains.

And yes, I'd imagine it means they're going to delay all the post-CW titles, too. That or they're just going to let the cat out of the bag early because otherwise they'll only ship a handful of titles in February.

It wouldn't surprise me if Marvel just went ahead and spoiled the ending by shipping all the post CW titles before CW #7 at this point. Because otherwise they're pretty much keeping the shelves empty of most Marvel product for a month? I just don't see it happening.

Heck, at this rate I think Marvel just wants to delay Civil War #7 until the same week the last issue of 52 ships, just to try to show DC up.

[Mikl C]

I don't mind! 6 was worth the wait.

[Sam T.]

Wow...this just might break the internet in half! It really isn't that bad of a delay.

[Magneto Rocks]

Marvel are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

The only way to mess up for everyone would be to put out some lame unfinished one now then wait and put a finished one in the trade just so people will buy it. That would be unfair and a flat out insult to the fans.

Luckiyl, comics companies today have too much respect for their fans to do THAT! Especially for the number of awesome double-page spreads we'll be getting.

[Psyco panda]

If this was the first delay, I'd agree with you that it wasn't that bad. But like i said: 3 months, 1 week. Thats how long ago CW 7 would have been out if they had a writer and artist that could keep to a deadline. And its not like just CW7 was delayed, AGAIN a good portion of the Marvel line up is pushed back with it.

Marvel Just looks like a bunch of idiots when they let things like this happen.

[Magneto Rocks]

Why, every time this happens, does MILLAR get lambasted?

[Fatguy]

If this was the first delay, I'd agree with you that it wasn't that bad. But like i said: 3 months, 1 week. Thats how long ago CW 7 would have been out if they had a writer and artist that could keep to a deadline.

Yea, and I dont mean to imply that its not obnoxious, but again, #6 came out January 3rd. #7 Is slated to arrive now on February 21st, thats about how long the usual wait is between issues, plus MAYBE 2 weeks, right?

So all I was saying is, profanity laced freak out posts just seems like a bit of an over-reaction to what is, really, a very very small delay of #7.

[Kirk G]

WHat happened to Marvel/Millar saying there would be no further delay for Issue #7?

It reminds me of the classic running joke from the humorous movie "Amazon Women on the Moon".....

"And now, we resume our movie, with no further interuptions....BULLSHIT!"


What ever happened to Marvel's policy of not starting any mini series until ALL issues are in house? Wasn't that established after one or two four parter mini series were delayed and the fan's rioted? What happened to that?

I can wait another week or two. I also called it in the poll.. but I didn't know that it was going to set EVERYTHING back as well....
Why does only MARVEL have these problems, but DC never seems to???:confused:

[Magneto Rocks]

...Well, look at the double-page "Battle of Metropolis" spread in Infinit Crisis '7. The original issue. The sucky one with the red background.

THAT'S why these delays don't happen at DC.

[streator]

i don't really care. i'll enjoy it when it comes out in february.

[Harding Prime]

Well...I mean it was suppose to be finished by December...According to the original check list.

[Will.S]

Argh, another delay?

Dammit Marvel, at this point I'd rather they just release whatever books came after it now spoilers be damned. I'm actually looking more forward to New Avengers #27 than CW #7 crazily enough.

[Phrozen]

Why, every time this happens, does MILLAR get lambasted?

Because it has become a trend with books he writes perhaps?

[the Dagman]

Why, every time this happens, does MILLAR get lambasted?

For once, I agree with you. This is the fault of the editors of the book. Tom Brevoort in particular. Civil War is his baby and it is on his shoulders that a majority of the problems rest.

He hires an artist for the series that draws pretty pictures, but can only make a bi-monthly deadline. Yet he keeps the book's official schedule monthly and did not hold up beginning to publish the series to stockpile a few issues. And when the pages do come in, the art sometimes contradicts the intended story. Yet he did not return the pages for changes. Most likely because they were so late already. Given what we have seen, CW #1 should have been held back until Marvel had the first four issues in the can. That would have been just about right. Isn't hindsight wonderful? But using hindsight on previous mini-series, they should have waited until all seven issues were in the can before publishing CW #1. Waiting on CW #1 would have let the creators of the tie-in books that are regular monthlies tell other stories. Like maybe Amazing Spider-Man could have shown some consequences of "the Other" storyline before rushing right into CW. Or we could have had the 45th anniversary issue of the Fantastic Four out on time and while the four were still a team and ...fantastic.

Brevoort also allowed books like Frontline to show wholly different versions of places and events that have happened in the main series, and did not send it back for changes. The same for other tie ins like Amazing Spider-Man and Fantastic Four for instance.

Brevoort is the editor. It is his job to coordinate these series'. It is his job to make sure all the various creators of all the various series that are all showing the same thing are all on the same page. He hasn't done this. Or if he attempted to do so, he sucks at his job.

[TotalWorldDomination]

Why, every time this happens, does MILLAR get lambasted?

Agreed, Milliar apparently turned his final draft of 7 in a while ago. At this point the only people we can blame are Brevhort, Quesada and McN.

[Conn Seanery]

Did Marvel give an official reason? I'm saving my profanity filled conniption fit and flurry of finger wagging at creators until then.

That, or i'll just do or read something else while I wait for Civil War #7 to come out. Yeah! Take that, Marvel!

[ReccaSquirrel]

I'm not too worked up on it. Civil War #7 is probably my last major Marvel purchase anyway.

[Den]

I wouldn't mind it if it didn't make a dozen other books 'classified' as well and delay some other titles. As it is, it does, and that bites.

[genesis]

Alright I'm back now no profanity. I promise. I needed time to cool down after the initial reaction. While I still think it is a really bad idea especially since the writing is done and supposedly the pencils for the most part. I must say this must be worth the wait for me to have continued faith in Marvel. Does any one remember at the start of this whole mess where they said they expected no delays at all and the system of crossovers was all cleverly laid out for us getting a decent amount of books in between each and now it is 3 months and a week late being finished. I am just a fan who wishes to read a story in a timely manner rather than the promise of saying this story will "Break the Internet in Half" and the internet remains unbroken till the book comes out and then whatever surprises come out of it it is not really that big of a deal because fans have already gotten it and it has been surfacing around the internet for weeks. So those who don't read the forums still get the Earth Shattering effect, but those who go on the forums are just kind of like yeah whatever no big deal.

So in conclusion while I want a great story and would tolerate a reasonable delay it is becoming absurd to pump money into tie-ins then not have the full story for 10 months and more than likely Marvel will push the title back again saying McN got strep again and he couldn't finish his duties in a reasonable amount of time so you the fans will have to wait yet another month for this to "Break the Internet in half!"

[Rollo_Tomasi]

I never understood all the bitching that goes with delays. It is not the end of the world people.

[Wild Card13]

Wow. This has really disappointed me. I'm not even mad. I just feel extremely let down. I really believed them when they said, "No more delays" the first time. The second time, I believed them again, and wasn't that mad. After all, this was Steve McNiven's health we were talking about. Wouldn't do much good for CW's schedule if the penciller dropped dead, after all. But then, they up and do this to us again. Why didn't Brevoort have the stones to tell us this last week, instead of feeding us some "we'll tell you on Tuesday" bollocks?

I'm a big fan of comics, but I have to question whether it's really worth it to wait much longer for this story. I gave up on Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk and Daredevil/Bullseye: The Target a long time ago, and don't even get me started on Ultimates 2. I thought that Civil War was honestly a good enough, compelling story that forcing it to go bimonthly for a little while was worth the wait. But this...less than a month after they tell us "No more", they give us this pandering "Stay tuned on Tuesday for more exciting details!". What kind of way is that to conduct business, hm? I appreciate the quality of McNiven's art, but it can't be denied that he's slow. And if so much of Marvel is staked on this, they should have picked someone with a quicker hand, or else stockpiled a few issues before releasing the series. Maybe they wanted to try and overshadow 52 and One Year Later. But for whatever reason, Marvel screwed up, and now Tom Brevoort and Steve McNiven have let us, their devoted fanbase, down.

[Shyft]

Actually, they delayed FF, Frontline, ASM and presumably the ENTIRE post-CW line along with it.

It's only 3 weeks, not as bad as I originally thought. INCREDIBLY annoying but worth it. Any more though and I'm out.

Anyone know if the likes of The Return, Spidey's back in black event, the Casualties of War (or whatever the follow up mini is going to be called) are going to be delayed like the above titles? THis totally blows. Seriously poor planning. It shows they didnt have any of the stuff pre-prepared.

[Siddon]

And to think my thread was deleted asking when the issue would come out.....


fools fools I tell you

[The Shadow]

The only way to mess up for everyone would be to put out some lame unfinished one now then wait and put a finished one in the trade just so people will buy it. That would be unfair and a flat out insult to the fans.

Luckiyl, comics companies today have too much respect for their fans to do THAT! Especially for the number of awesome double-page spreads we'll be getting.
... DC did that with Infinite Crisis #7.

[PatchMadripoor]

after I heard this bs I knew I was done with Marvel Civil War

takes to long to tell the story and it's too contrived. This should have been told in three issues of New Avengers TOPS!!!!

[agrich]

Guess I'm in the don't care camp. It will come out when it comes out, and meanwhile I'll live my life and stuff. I don't pay for issues in advance and I don't place any stock in silly promises like "No more delays" or "Dead means dead" or, while we're at it, "No more mutants." :) Life is short; there are plenty of other things to do.

[The Shadow]

after I heard this bs I knew I was done with Marvel Civil War
Does it really, truely matter? This delay ruins your enjoyment of the series?

takes to long to tell the story and it's too contrived. This should have been told in three issues of New Avengers TOPS!!!!

Yeah except those pesky tie-ins would have really stretched it out. ;)

[Miss Kitty Fantastico]

Eh, no biggie. A bit annoying to be sure, but if that's what it takes, that's what it takes. I'm certainly happy they're not getting stand-ins to do the work - I don't want to end up with six issues of McNiven and the final one looking different. And seriously, before about half-way through last year, I didn't even know there were shipping schedules. I just got the email from the LCS every week, and if a comic was there, woo hoo, go buy it.

[Nomad]

I've been cool about they delays so far, but it's issue seven! Does this mean Cap'll be delayed too? Bummer!
What I don't get is folks saying "I'm done with Civil War" or Marvel because of a delay, and people giving Tom crap on his thread. The dude is giving us his time to answer questions and people act like he's there to justify things to the fans. BS

[Cayman]

No big deal. I always enjoy it when it comes out.

[xarathos]

Bwah ha ha!

I have to laugh, because if I don't I'd cry. Admittedly I don't read Civil War after 5, which means I don't read FF, NEW Avengers, Spider-man, or anything related. The sad thing is... I want to.


Here's you're sales loss over the series...

Paul O'Brien/Milton Griepp sales estimates (while not totally accurate and ignore non-USA sales and news stand, but do include reorders, they are at least comparable month-to-month) tell a different story.



CIVIL WAR #1 357,601
CIVIL WAR #2 339,527
CIVIL WAR #3 330,304
CIVIL WAR #4 280,508
CIVIL WAR #5 272,603

[Jake V]

Bwah ha ha!

I have to laugh, because if I don't I'd cry. Admittedly I don't read Civil War after 5, which means I don't read FF, NEW Avengers, Spider-man, or anything related. The sad thing is... I want to.


Here's you're sales loss over the series...

Paul O'Brien/Milton Griepp sales estimates (while not totally accurate and ignore non-USA sales and news stand, but do include reorders, they are at least comparable month-to-month) tell a different story.



CIVIL WAR #1 357,601
CIVIL WAR #2 339,527
CIVIL WAR #3 330,304
CIVIL WAR #4 280,508
CIVIL WAR #5 272,603

Tell what story?

Copying and pasting other people's writing and not attributing it (or even giving a context) causes what you're saying to make no sense and makes you look like a thief.

BTW, a sales loss like that is completely normal for any comic book. I'm not sure what point you're trying to get accross.

[Killer Bee]

People who are saying it's okay that the book is delayed are the type of people who don't really understand the meaning of the word "responsibility."

"It's okay that the company isn't fullfilling any of its promises to its consumers."

"It's okay that the company cannot responsibly complete a task on time and must make empty promises."

"It's okay that the company puts someone on a job that they can't handle properly, but will flat-out refuse to replace with someone more capable."

I can't imagine how those people would react if they found out they were being sold expired food with new dates on them.

"That's okay. I just eat around the mold."

[Scott Taylor]

The shipping allocation problem with CW 6, and subsequent reading of spoilers, may have caused me to jump off the CW bandwagon. This move kinda makes me care alot less. Especially because it means World War Hulk is pushed back even farther, meaning poor Pak will have to continue to drag things out, in all liklihood. Crap.

Any bets on how many special covers of back issue CW mags we'll see? How many more director's cut issues we'll see? This is a money, money, money thing for Marvel and they don't want it to go away.

[Jake V]

People who are saying it's okay that the book is delayed are the type of people who don't really understand the meaning of the word "responsibility."

"It's okay that the company isn't fullfilling any of its promises to its consumers."

"It's okay that the company cannot responsibly complete a task on time and must make empty promises."

"It's okay that the company puts someone on a job that they can't handle properly, but will flat-out refuse to replace with someone more capable."

I can't imagine how those people would react if they found out they were being sold expired food with new dates on them.

"That's okay. I just eat around the mold."

There's a bit of a difference between food and 32 page pamphlets with pictures of grown men wearing spandex in them.

The standards for each are a bit different. I don't need comics to survive.

[ForEverAncien]

Spoken truly...spoken truly.
For once, I agree with you. This is the fault of the editors of the book. Tom Brevoort in particular. Civil War is his baby and it is on his shoulders that a majority of the problems rest.

He hires an artist for the series that draws pretty pictures, but can only make a bi-monthly deadline. Yet he keeps the book's official schedule monthly and did not hold up beginning to publish the series to stockpile a few issues. And when the pages do come in, the art sometimes contradicts the intended story. Yet he did not return the pages for changes. Most likely because they were so late already. Given what we have seen, CW #1 should have been held back until Marvel had the first four issues in the can. That would have been just about right. Isn't hindsight wonderful? But using hindsight on previous mini-series, they should have waited until all seven issues were in the can before publishing CW #1. Waiting on CW #1 would have let the creators of the tie-in books that are regular monthlies tell other stories. Like maybe Amazing Spider-Man could have shown some consequences of "the Other" storyline before rushing right into CW. Or we could have had the 45th anniversary issue of the Fantastic Four out on time and while the four were still a team and ...fantastic.

Brevoort also allowed books like Frontline to show wholly different versions of places and events that have happened in the main series, and did not send it back for changes. The same for other tie ins like Amazing Spider-Man and Fantastic Four for instance.

Brevoort is the editor. It is his job to coordinate these series'. It is his job to make sure all the various creators of all the various series that are all showing the same thing are all on the same page. He hasn't done this. Or if he attempted to do so, he sucks at his job.

[Fatguy]

People who are saying it's okay that the book is delayed are the type of people who don't really understand the meaning of the word "responsibility."

"It's okay that the company isn't fullfilling any of its promises to its consumers."

"It's okay that the company cannot responsibly complete a task on time and must make empty promises."

"It's okay that the company puts someone on a job that they can't handle properly, but will flat-out refuse to replace with someone more capable."

I can't imagine how those people would react if they found out they were being sold expired food with new dates on them.

"That's okay. I just eat around the mold."

Give me a break :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure somebody comparing being suckered into buying spoiled food that could harm your body, and a comic book being 21 days late, are the type of people who dont really understand the meaning of the word "reality".

[Killer Bee]

So my comparison was a bit extreme, but if you'll allow companies to act irresponsibly, then they'll continue to act the way they do.

Would you be upset if your paycheck was delayed? Of course. No one likes delays. I don't know a single person that's labeled as a consumer that enjoys delays. Do you enjoy your flights being delayed? How about your food when you're at a dine-in restaurant or your car in a shop...or your favorite football match being postponed? That's never fun right?

I didn't mean to attack your character with my first post, I'm sure you're all kind and very patient people, but sometimes there's a point where you just have to say that it's time for a company (corporation, etc) to take some responsibility in the work that they do and deliver good on their word.

[Fatguy]

So my comparison was a bit extreme, but if you'll allow companies to act irresponsibly, then they'll continue to act the way they do.

Would you be upset if your paycheck was delayed? Of course. No one likes delays. I don't know a single person that's labeled as a consumer that enjoys delays. Do you enjoy your flights being delayed? How about your food when you're at a dine-in restaurant or your car in a shop...or your favorite football match being postponed? That's never fun right?

I didn't mean to attack your character with my first post, I'm sure you're all kind and very patient people, but sometimes there's a point where you just have to say that it's time for a company (corporation, etc) to take some responsibility in the work that they do and deliver good on their word.

But what are you gonna do though? If your flight is delayed, it sucks because you obviously needed to be somewhere. If your paycheck is delayed, it sucks because, well, most people need their money which is why they work in the first place.

Comic books are a pastime, an elective hobby. If you're unhappy, you're only recourse's are to either suck it up because you like what you are getting, or you drop it and move on. One sure thing about comic books, and most fans know this, is no release date is set in stone. Comics are an art form, and thus unpredictable and there are a lot of variables that can throw a wrench into the mix. Its like movies, just because they say July 2007, doesnt mean things dont come up. Life happens.

You say we cant keep letting them get away with it, but whats the alternative? To deny ourselves something we consider fun? For what purpose? Its not as if Joe Q or somebody is sitting in their office, wickedly twirling their mustache, thinking up ways to dissapoint their fans (I dont think so anyways...). I guess you could say replace the artist so it comes out this month, but it seems the general consensus says they would rather wait so they can continue to enjoy McNiven's work. So really, as long as monthly comics arent being replaced by the trade format, delays are going to happen, and no gesture anybody makes is going to change that.

[Killer Bee]

The dollar is the strongest voice in the entire economic world. It works too. Poor sales are enough to drive someone to say, "Okay, we need to cancel this book."

[StoneGold]

You say we cant keep letting them get away with it, but whats the alternative? To deny ourselves something we consider fun? For what purpose? Its not as if Joe Q or somebody is sitting in their office, wickedly twirling their mustache,

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/quesada-and-colbert-go-head-to-head.jpg

[steve2275]

meh
ill live

[ReccaSquirrel]

There's a bit of a difference between food and 32 page pamphlets with pictures of grown men wearing spandex in them.
Not to a stockholder or advertisers.

[ReccaSquirrel]

Give me a break :rolleyes:

I'm pretty sure somebody comparing being suckered into buying spoiled food that could harm your body, and a comic book being 21 days late, are the type of people who dont really understand the meaning of the word "reality".
I'm just one person, but Marvel's delays have helped me in discovering that there are better comics out there for my tastes.

I don't have a lot of money (yet) and my trips to the comic store are about once every three or four weeks. I pick up my pull and wander the shelves for new titles. As I'm on a budget, I usually don't have anything left over to buy with. Marvel's delays, however, have allowed me to spend a bit more money on other comics. This is how I've managed to get JLA and JSA on my pull list. My wife has discovered a comic she enjoys, Gen 13. Now we are over budget and we need to cut down on comics. Guess who gets cut?

This isn't to say that other comic lines are any better. But the only other delay I have experienced on my pull is Wonder Woman.

[Jmacq1]

Y'know, I wonder if for the next few months, people that are Marvel-heavy on their pull lists are going to have to spend about $100 bucks on the last week of every month since a good chunk of their titles were "logjammed" to that week (or the week after)?

I mean hey, since a bunch of writers/artists have titles have been delayed a month or more, that means all those other writers probably have one or two of the regular ongoing series "in the bag" already....right?

*cough*

And yeah, I know the titles would eventually "space out" naturally on their own as future delays and creative team changes and whatnot catch up with them, but I'm curious if Marvel themselves will adjust their shipping schedule to avoid potential sales loss simply by putting out too many books in one week.

[MrPunch0]

So that means those on the west coast will see it Feb. 27th, right? ;)

[Mideon]

This blows. Now with the "Road to Civil War" stuff Civil War will have lasted a whole year.

[agrich]

I'm just one person, but Marvel's delays have helped me in discovering that there are better comics out there for my tastes.

I don't have a lot of money (yet) and my trips to the comic store are about once every three or four weeks. I pick up my pull and wander the shelves for new titles. As I'm on a budget, I usually don't have anything left over to buy with. Marvel's delays, however, have allowed me to spend a bit more money on other comics. This is how I've managed to get JLA and JSA on my pull list. My wife has discovered a comic she enjoys, Gen 13. Now we are over budget and we need to cut down on comics. Guess who gets cut?

This isn't to say that other comic lines are any better. But the only other delay I have experienced on my pull is Wonder Woman.

If you only go to the comic store every 3-4 weeks anyway, I don't understand what the big deal is with the delays. I can kind of understand the weekly buyers who are COUNTING on it in a specific week caring, but with your schedule you might not even notice a 3-week delay in Civil War, if it happens to come in the week after you went to the comic store -- it might be there the next time you go in regardless.

If you then decide to cut down on comics, I guess one approach is to cut down on the ones that aren't as timely. Another approach, the one I personally go with, is to cut down on the ones that I don't like as much -- because they're less interesting due either to boring characters and storylines, poor art, or lousy writing. None of these qualities apply to a couple of my favorite titles, for example, Ultimates. Stop buying a comic I enjoy because it experiences delays? That will affect me a lot more than it affects Marvel, by denying myself a title I'm actually enjoying. I don't mind "waiting," because really, I'm not waiting. I'm living my life, buying other comics, reading books, watching TV, going to the gym, etc., etc., etc. People talk about "waiting" as if they're going to spend the three weeks sitting in a room, sadly turning the pages of issue 6 and cursing the starts. I've got other things to do.

Why is a storyline that "lasts a whole year" a bad thing? Are we all in some rush to get somewhere?

I buy comics I enjoy, I don't buy comics I don't enjoy. If you no longer enjoy Civil War because of all the delays, that's one thing, and that's certainly a fair opinion. Personally though, I imagine I'll enjoy issue 7 just as much if it came out in March as if it came out in January -- moreso, if the alternative was, as some suggested, replacing the artist with a "more capable" one (i.e., somebody who draws faster).

[Mideon]

The reason that Civil War lasting a whole year sucks is that the whole thing has been beaten to detah by now. People have been speculating and theorizing for so long that nothing will even be a surprise anymore. That's why I wish CW would just hurry up and end, so we can see what comes next.

Not to mention that what comes next (WWH, Back in Black, TBolts) sounds more exciting than CW turned out to be.

[HankMcCoy]

The thing about the delays that's disappointing for me is that the story is not as enjoyable. Civil War has been beaten to death with a big stick. Prolonging it has simply watered it down.

[Will.S]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/quesada-and-colbert-go-head-to-head.jpg
LOL, that mustache makes him look 50% more evil.

[agrich]

The thing about the delays that's disappointing for me is that the story is not as enjoyable. Civil War has been beaten to death with a big stick. Prolonging it has simply watered it down.


I can understand this argument, but these are things we as readers have some control over.

We don't have to read all the tie-ins.

We definitely don't have to talk about it on the Civil War Forums at CBR every day.

If you read only one or two of the tie-ins (the ones you like the most) and don't read all these different threads, it's still just a 7-issue miniseries, whether it takes 7 months to tell, or 10 months.

[Exo]

These delays are nothing next to those of Ultimates 2. Does this mean the 'traitor story' will be extended for yet another issue in Frontline? :confused:

[XPac]

At this point, I'm pretty much used to the delays so it honestly doesn't bother me that much.

And I'm in no rush. I enjoy debating the finer points of the registration and Civil War. Though at times it's a source of frustration, I'm almost going to miss it once it's over.

Hopefully what comes down the pike next will offer enough material for us to do more of the same, but I kinda doubt it.

[TheCrisisKid]

The chances of CW leading into WWHulk is increasing...

[comicstar100]

My only problem with the book being delayed is that it holds up other titles. I can wait for civil war 7, but NA 27 idk lol.

[Sin Nombre]

There's different ways of viewing "responsibility".

Is being late finishing something irresponsible? Sure. But in some cases, not finishing what you start is just as irresponsible.

I work as a delivery driver, once our truck is loaded, it becomes my responsibility to get those deliveries to the customers in a timely fashion. If something out of my control (i.e. car accident, problem at a previous delivery etc.) happens, it's still MY responsibility to let that customer know that we'll be a bit late arriving. Generally people are quite understanding when you're upfront and make them aware of the problem when you know it's an issue.

As long as Marvel tells us it will be delayed, I feel they're upholding their responsibility by keeping us informed.

[Simon Garth]

... DC did that with Infinite Crisis #7.

You might want to investigate the definition of "irony"...

[Simon Garth]

Guess I'm in the don't care camp. It will come out when it comes out, and meanwhile I'll live my life and stuff. I don't pay for issues in advance and I don't place any stock in silly promises like "No more delays" or "Dead means dead" or, while we're at it, "No more mutants." :) Life is short; there are plenty of other things to do.

Burn him! Burn the heretic!




(I'm with you all the way. So a comic book isn't coming out a couple of weeks after another comic book. Big £$£ing deal)

[Modi]

This *%%& aint worth it, they're taking too #&#()&+ long, im surprised marvel is still succesfull seeing that the best of their books are always delayed, think about it.

Ultimate FF, the ultimates, civil war, astonishing x-men, new avengers.

ALL THE HEAVYWEIGHTS HAVE BEEN DELAYED MORE THEN ONES!!!!!!:evilangry

[Conn Seanery]

People who are saying it's okay that the book is delayed are the type of people who don't really understand the meaning of the word "responsibility."

"It's okay that the company isn't fullfilling any of its promises to its consumers."

"It's okay that the company cannot responsibly complete a task on time and must make empty promises."

"It's okay that the company puts someone on a job that they can't handle properly, but will flat-out refuse to replace with someone more capable."

I can't imagine how those people would react if they found out they were being sold expired food with new dates on them.

"That's okay. I just eat around the mold."
Unfortunately, you can't really compare waiting for a late comic with getting the wrong order at McDonalds.

I realize some people roll their eyes when comic work is referred to as "art", but art can be unpredictable. Sh*t happens. Do you rush it out and compromise the quality so people can bitch about it on time, or do you regretfully delay it to finish it at the desired quality level so people can bitch about it at a later date?

Extra pages at no extra cost? All I gotta do is wait a few more weeks? I'll take it. People who can't, well, while i'm looking up "responsibility" why don't you look up the word "unclench."

[xarathos]

[QUOTE=ReccaSquirrel;4215380]I'm just one person, but Marvel's delays have helped me in discovering that there are better comics out there for my tastes.
[QUOTE]

Marvel was my taste. Now it's not Marvel so much anymore. What do I do know?:mad:

[The Shadow]

Not to a stockholder or advertisers.

Are you a stock holder?

And I don't think a stock holder would eat a comic... but food is a necessity to survive. So they are, in effect, QUITE different to a stockholder and advertiser.

Also, as someone who has worked in advertising there's ALWAYS a little fine print saying the publication in question is NOT guaranteed to ship on the date and is SUBJCT TO CHANGE. All advertisers know this when going in.

[The Shadow]

The thing about the delays that's disappointing for me is that the story is not as enjoyable. Civil War has been beaten to death with a big stick.

... don't go into the Civil War area of the forums. Simple as that.
Ignorance can be bliss sometimes.

[The Shadow]

You might want to investigate the definition of "irony"...

Your post didn't mention irony and sometimes it's hard to get the meaning out of writing on a message board with no tone or vocal inflection. ;)

[ilovemoney]

anyone catch this Civil War #7 cover?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=9314

[Erik Lehnsherr]

A month a half? Damn.

[oneasian]

as long as the book comes out, i'm allllll goood.

despite any delays, i'll just enjoy it even more when i have the full 1-7 run and all my variant craziness.

i wonder whether the cover will be glossy. the cover for CW 6 was glossy but 1-5 weren't. WHY?

[Will.S]

i wonder whether the cover will be glossy. the cover for CW 6 was glossy but 1-5 weren't. WHY?
Yeah I don't know why they switched it to glossy at this point, the paper itself is noticeably thinner though so it's probably a cost thing like the did with the Ultimate books when they switched the card stock cover to weaker more glossy paper.

[Killer Bee]

Unfortunately, you can't really compare waiting for a late comic with getting the wrong order at McDonalds.

I realize some people roll their eyes when comic work is referred to as "art", but art can be unpredictable. Sh*t happens. Do you rush it out and compromise the quality so people can bitch about it on time, or do you regretfully delay it to finish it at the desired quality level so people can bitch about it at a later date?

Extra pages at no extra cost? All I gotta do is wait a few more weeks? I'll take it. People who can't, well, while i'm looking up "responsibility" why don't you look up the word "unclench."

This whole deal with delays isn't just with Civil War. There's been several posters in here already that pointed out that other big titles have this delay problem (Ultimates, UF4, AXM). It's a company wide problem when not one title, but several are delayed and the worst part is that Civil War 7 ALONE delays almost every single book related to it. That's insane!

What's even more insane is the fact that their biggest competitor has a 52 part WEEKLY book that has remained on schedule.

Seven part monthly series delayed for three months and one week vs. 52 part weekly series that's well over the half-way point that's on schedule. If you cannot see the problem there, then six extra pages was enough to make you turn your head the other way.

[The Shadow]

What's even more insane is the fact that their biggest competitor has a 52 part WEEKLY book that has remained on schedule.

With 4 writers and god knows how many artists and inkers... not to mention Keith Giffen doing all the breakdowns for the artists first.

DC was also late with the final issue of Infinite Crisis and rushed it so fast that pages were added and panels were re-drawn for the hard cover so it made more sense.

I'd rather wait and have it done properly than the above alternative.

[steve2275]

So that means those on the west coast will see it Feb. 27th, right? ;)

now that sux

[Killer Bee]

With 4 writers and god knows how many artists and inkers... not to mention Keith Giffen doing all the breakdowns for the artists first.

DC was also late with the final issue of Infinite Crisis and rushed it so fast that pages were added and panels were re-drawn for the hard cover so it made more sense.

I'd rather wait and have it done properly than the above alternative.


The fact is though, 52 ran on an extremely tight schedule regardless of the quantity of staff on that project. At least they understood the gravity of the project and were able to do their work ahead of time and didn't need DC to delay their book just to accommodate them.

[Jake V]

The fact is though, 52 ran on an extremely tight schedule regardless of the quantity of staff on that project. At least they understood the gravity of the project and were able to do their work ahead of time and didn't need DC to delay their book just to accommodate them.

Well yeah, they knew they were working on a book whose entire gimmick was being weekly, and would suffer immensely if it didn't come out every week.

Punctuality isn't the reason people are buying Civil War.

[Phrozen]

With 4 writers and god knows how many artists and inkers... not to mention Keith Giffen doing all the breakdowns for the artists first.

DC was also late with the final issue of Infinite Crisis and rushed it so fast that pages were added and panels were re-drawn for the hard cover so it made more sense.

I'd rather wait and have it done properly than the above alternative.

Sounds like DC learned from past mistakes and got organized where Marvel hasn't.

[XPac]

Sounds like DC learned from past mistakes and got organized where Marvel hasn't.

I don't think we can crucify Marvel too much for the delay. They're adding extra pages and putting out an extra book.

I'd rather they delay it a big and put out an extra effort to make it the best possible story they can the first time around and do what DC did with Infinate Crisis.

The delay is only going to last a few weeks. The time we will with those stories after we buy it will obviously be a lot longer than that.

[The Shadow]

Sounds like DC learned from past mistakes and got organized where Marvel hasn't.

So... explain away All Star Batman & Robin and All Star Superman ;)

[Phrozen]

So... explain away All Star Batman & Robin and All Star Superman ;)


Compared to the flustercuck that Civil War has been? and that Marvel is numero uno in delaying books, I would say yes it hurts their reputation but it doesn't make them look wholly incompetent like this is making Marvel look.

[XPac]

Compared to the flustercuck that Civil War has been? and that Marvel is numero uno in delaying books, I would say yes it hurts their reputation but it doesn't make them look wholly incompetent like this is making Marvel look.

It's pretty debatable whether DC's way of dealing with thigns or Marvels is better.

DC put out it's books on schedule with inferior art and flaws which they later corrected in a hardcover. Marvel is suffering from delays, but putting out one shots and extra material to make up for the gap.

I'd argue in the longterm fans will react less negatively to marvel's way of doing things than DC's... but I guess we'll see.

[The Shadow]

Compared to the flustercuck that Civil War has been? and that Marvel is numero uno in delaying books, I would say yes it hurts their reputation but it doesn't make them look wholly incompetent like this is making Marvel look.

ONE single issue of All Star Batman shipped in 2006. ONE (1) issue! Only 4 issues of All Star Superman shipped. (Edited to be correct: Only 4 issues shipped as #1 shipped in Nov of 2005)

How can you say the delays of CW are making Marvel look wholly incompetent while DC shipped ONE SINGLE ISSUE of All Star Batman over the span of a WHOLE YEAR???

I know you have a hate on for Marvel and Civil War right now... but at least try and be objective.

McNiven was ill which delayed #6... it stands to reason he would be behind for #7 AND they added FREE pages. After the (as you put it) flustercuck that was Infinite Crisis and the various artists, the rush to complete and the new and added pages for the hard cover... I'll gladly wait 3 weeks for a superior product than a half-assed and rushed one.

And you didn't explain how DC learned from their mistakes and yet still allow the two All Star books to ship chronically late (later than CW will ever be). I think it's becase they like the creative teams, fans like the teams and everyone would rather wait for (again) a superior product than one done by fill-in's.

[jefseg77]

My concern about the chronic delays is how it will effect marvel as a whole. In their next cross over World War Hulk, will it be both delayed and crossed over into every other title because they see they can get away with it and they will make more money.

[Exo]

My concern about the chronic delays is how it will effect marvel as a whole. In their next cross over World War Hulk, will it be both delayed and crossed over into every other title because they see they can get away with it and they will make more money.

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a59/stonegold/quesada-and-colbert-go-head-to-head.jpg
"And I would have gotten away with it too, if it hadn't been for you meddling kids!"

Sorry but that would be stupid and not evil. If Marvel was a money hungry company, then why on earth would you purposely delay for mere peanut money when you could lengthen an event (with say 3 or 4 more issues) from the very beginning?

Marvel is simply filling up the space CW#7 left behind. It's only fair if it does the story justice.

[agrich]

In their next cross over World War Hulk, will it be both delayed and crossed over into every other title because they see they can get away with it and they will make more money.

As noted above, delays don't do anything to help Marvel sell more product. It would make more sense to do like they once did -- hire some hack to churn out a quick fill-in issue, like happened occasionally on the Hulk when Dale Keown was the artist, rather than have a month where there was no Hulk comic. Me, I'd have preferred they skip a month than give us drek like that Santa Claus Rhino fill-in issue to help Keown get back on schedule. Which is more insulting, a delay, or a lousy fill-in? I guess they could have had Deodato rush through Civil War 7 to meet the January deadline, but I for one am glad they didn't.

As for the crossovers they're "getting away with," Civil War actually reads quite nicely on its own. So did House of M (even though I didn't care for it), so did the various Infinity series in the '90s, etc., etc. Don't like all the crossovers, don't buy them. It can be done.

[jefseg77]

Exo,

As far making more money with it, by delaying they are building anticipation and by lengthening the event they are makeing three or four more issues, they are called one shots. Now we also have a post civil war issues announced. (cute picture)



Agrich,

Are you saying that the tie-ins are not neccessary to read along with Civil War main series? For example: If I did not read Amazing Spider-man, would the fight between Iron Man and Spider-man at the begining of number 5 make sense? Did the previous civil war issue leave off with the two of them squareing off?

And yes, House of M sucked.

[XPac]

Are you saying that the tie-ins are not neccessary to read along with Civil War main series? For example: If I did not read Amazing Spider-man, would the fight between Iron Man and Spider-man at the begining of number 5 make sense? Did the previous civil war issue leave off with the two of them squareing off?

And yes, House of M sucked.

I honestly don't think the tie-in's are necessary either. You know you're missing something... but what you're missing really isn't necessary for understanding or enjoying the story.

It explains that Peter wants to leave. He already expressed doubts in the previous issues, so it's not entirely out of the blue. That's all you NEED to know, even though there's more depth to the story in the tie-ins.

[jefseg77]

I honestly don't think the tie-in's are necessary either. You know you're missing something... but what you're missing really isn't necessary for understanding or enjoying the story.

It explains that Peter wants to leave. He already expressed doubts in the previous issues, so it's not entirely out of the blue. That's all you NEED to know, even though there's more depth to the story in the tie-ins.

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue, I think the stand alone series would be pretty weak and have a lot of holes.

[agrich]

I'm saying the tie-ins are not necessary. The good ones add enjoyment and fill in some blanks, but looking at your example, we saw in issue 4 that Spider-man was having doubts, and we see in issue 5 that he's telling Iron Man he's done. Spider-man (which I don't read) has the details, but it's not like we're totally lost. Or at least I wasn't. I could buy Spider-man if I wanted to know all the thought processes behind his shift, or I could choose not to if it wasn't something I needed to see spelled out. (Or I could read a synopsis of the issue, here, if I wanted to.)

I have bought and enjoyed some of the tie-ins. I have not bought most of them. I'm enjoying Civil War. Maybe I'd enjoy it even more (and be poorer) if I bought all the tie-ins, but I make a choice not to buy most of them. So no, they're not necessary. Most of the blanks haven't been that hard to fill in.

[Exo]

Exo,

As far making more money with it, by delaying they are building anticipation and by lengthening the event they are makeing three or four more issues, they are called one shots.

My point was if Marvel's really in it for the pay-offs, the market would be oversaturated with bigger events (imagine if CW were 14 issues instead of 7). The "last minute" tie-in accounts for that extra $$$ but it's not the easiest way to make a hefty profit.

[agrich]

I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on this issue, I think the stand alone series would be pretty weak and have a lot of holes.

You're offering an opinion on a perspective you can't possibly have, though. Since you're reading the tie-ins, you feel you'd miss them, but I'm saying that I haven't read them and don't miss them.

Best example I can think of is when a film comes out on DVD with a few extra scenes included that weren't in theatres. If you see that version first, maybe you'd miss the scenes if you then saw the theatre version. "Hey, where's that great scene where such and such..." But if you don't see them in the first place, there's a good chance you don't miss them.

And anyway, if the tie-ins are good (the Illuminati special comes to mind, which I did read -- but didn't need to) there's no problem anyway.

As for the idea of Marvel trying to sell people more comics, well sure, they do that anyway, and always have. I mean, the world doesn't need to have 8 different X-Men titles, but if people keep buying them, they'll keep adding more. I'm sure the Civil War spinoffs and one-shots and all that are indeed an effort to sell fans more comics, but they've yet to reach into my pockets and make me buy anything. Life goes on without my having "Front Line" or anything.

[John Nowak]

I've liked most of the one-shot tie-ins I've read, and personally I don't have a big problem with the delays.

The only people really suffering from the delays are the retailers, supposedly -- I'm not a retailer so I don't know.

[MAK15]

I've liked most of the one-shot tie-ins I've read, and personally I don't have a big problem with the delays.

The only people really suffering from the delays are the retailers, supposedly -- I'm not a retailer so I don't know.

they may be suffering for a few weeks, but once the actual comic or any of the tie-ins go on the shelves they sell like hot cakes and more than make up for losses.

[jefseg77]

You're offering an opinion on a perspective you can't possibly have, though. Since you're reading the tie-ins, you feel you'd miss them, but I'm saying that I haven't read them and don't miss them.

Best example I can think of is when a film comes out on DVD with a few extra scenes included that weren't in theatres. If you see that version first, maybe you'd miss the scenes if you then saw the theatre version. "Hey, where's that great scene where such and such..." But if you don't see them in the first place, there's a good chance you don't miss them.

And anyway, if the tie-ins are good (the Illuminati special comes to mind, which I did read -- but didn't need to) there's no problem anyway.

As for the idea of Marvel trying to sell people more comics, well sure, they do that anyway, and always have. I mean, the world doesn't need to have 8 different X-Men titles, but if people keep buying them, they'll keep adding more. I'm sure the Civil War spinoffs and one-shots and all that are indeed an effort to sell fans more comics, but they've yet to reach into my pockets and make me buy anything. Life goes on without my having "Front Line" or anything.

I can see what you are saying about the dvd comparison, but as to make another comparison I can say to read just Civil War is reading the cliff notes, you get the main points, but miss a good part of the story. I am a person who likes to know the whole story. Guess I am a completist.

Because of this in the future I may wait till a series is over and just buy the trades, it maybe cheaper.

[The Shadow]

Because of this in the future I may wait till a series is over and just buy the trades, it maybe cheaper.

Because of what? The delay?

You say you're a completist but there's no guarantee Marvel will collect all the tie-in issues. There's also no guarantee they won't come out with expensive hard covers first and by the time the trade is out you'll know the whole story anyway... so you won't have any surprises and zero anticipation.

[John Nowak]

they may be suffering for a few weeks, but once the actual comic or any of the tie-ins go on the shelves they sell like hot cakes and more than make up for losses.

I sure hope so -- comic book stores are pretty marginal to begin with. A screwed up release schedule on top of a minimum wage hike isn't good news for them.

[jefseg77]

Because of what? The delay?

You say you're a completist but there's no guarantee Marvel will collect all the tie-in issues. There's also no guarantee they won't come out with expensive hard covers first and by the time the trade is out you'll know the whole story anyway... so you won't have any surprises and zero anticipation.

I prefer hardcovers, they look better on my shelf, I am building a nice collection. (I love the absolutes and Omnibuses) As far as Civil War goes its too late to stop and just by trades, I meant with World War Hulk and beyond. There is no guarantee they will collect future cross overs, but I thinks its a pretty safe bet.

[agrich]

I can see what you are saying about the dvd comparison, but as to make another comparison I can say to read just Civil War is reading the cliff notes, you get the main points, but miss a good part of the story. I am a person who likes to know the whole story. Guess I am a completist.

I'm primarily interested in the story Mark Millar is telling, and I'm getting the complete one of that in Civil War.

I'm somewhat interested in Bendis' part of the story, so I've been reading New Avengers.

I have zero interest in anything J. Michael Straczynski has to say about anything, and after one issue of Front Line I'd had enough of that as well. So my completism is different than yours; I want Millar's complete story, and I feel like I'm getting it. I don't care about the tertiary stories being told in Front Line or Thunderbolts.

It's not a perfect example, but although I'm a fan of Whedon and Cassaday's run on Astonishing X-Men, that doesn't mean I feel the need to buy the other books that some of those same characters are currently appearing in. To me it's similar; there's the main story I'm reading, and then I realize these characters are also in other books that tie in, but I can live without them. I know Civil War is a tighter example of an overall story, but regardless, it's not the Cliff Notes -- it is the story. To me a lot of the other parts are just the extraneous material.

[Conn Seanery]

This whole deal with delays isn't just with Civil War. There's been several posters in here already that pointed out that other big titles have this delay problem (Ultimates, UF4, AXM). It's a company wide problem when not one title, but several are delayed and the worst part is that Civil War 7 ALONE delays almost every single book related to it. That's insane!
So boycott the company if it upsets you so much. Just because some of us are willing to wait out the delay(s) doesn't mean we have a poor understanding of "responsibility", it just means we're more patient and understanding than you are.

What's even more insane is the fact that their biggest competitor has a 52 part WEEKLY book that has remained on schedule.
Hey, if you're a fan of filler art good for you. Someone call the Herb Trimpe from the 90's when he was aping Rob Liefeld, and tell him to get crackin' on Civil War #7! It'll look like garbage, but hey, at least they kept their schedule.

Seven part monthly series delayed for three months and one week vs. 52 part weekly series that's well over the half-way point that's on schedule. If you cannot see the problem there, then six extra pages was enough to make you turn your head the other way.
If i'm enjoying a series, I don't care how long I have to wait. I like it when creators stick to their guns and finish what they started, even if that means delays. As long as the quality level is enough to satisfy me, i'm good. I'd have rather read the entire series on time, but I have no problem waiting for it. It's as simple as that.

Comics are a drain on the wallet, anyway. Less to buy for a few weeks is suits me just fine.

[The Shadow]

I prefer hardcovers, they look better on my shelf,

I like em too... but I'm just confused then...
it maybe cheaper.
Hard covers won't be cheaper. Ever.

[Killer Bee]

So boycott the company if it upsets you so much. Just because some of us are willing to wait out the delay(s) doesn't mean we have a poor understanding of "responsibility", it just means we're more patient and understanding than you are.


Hey, if you're a fan of filler art good for you. Someone call the Herb Trimpe from the 90's when he was aping Rob Liefeld, and tell him to get crackin' on Civil War #7! It'll look like garbage, but hey, at least they kept their schedule.


If i'm enjoying a series, I don't care how long I have to wait. I like it when creators stick to their guns and finish what they started, even if that means delays. As long as the quality level is enough to satisfy me, i'm good. I'd have rather read the entire series on time, but I have no problem waiting for it. It's as simple as that.

Comics are a drain on the wallet, anyway. Less to buy for a few weeks is suits me just fine.

I wouldn't say it's more understanding that some can wait: just very ignorant of the problem. I can most certainly deal with one delay...two, sure, especially when they're sick, but three? C'mon! Seven issues shouldn't take this long to be released.

Unless the work is comparible to a 4th grader's, I won't be complaining because at least someone was responsible enough to get their work out on time.

I like it too when creators stick to their guns and finish what they start, but I like it even more when they do that and get their work out on time. It's not like it's some impossible. I won't boycott Marvel, I'll boycott people like McNiv, Turner, and anyone else who doesn't know how to follow a schedule because for some reason, some of these artists who's books I pick up in Marvel are MUCH better than Mcniv and yet they have no problem getting their work out on time.

Not hating on McNiv, but I hope he never works on another project on this scale again unless he's fully prepared to handle the responsibility at the moment of truth.

[The Shadow]

I'll boycott people like /snip/ Turner, and anyone else who doesn't know how to follow a schedule

... are you talking about Michael Turner?

The guy who is fighting recurring cancer, getting chemo treatments that is still managing to work, AND run Aspen?

THAT guy? You'd boycott him because he's LATE? I support the hell outa him because despite the recurring cancer the guy still does what he loves and I'm sure there are days when he can barely hold a pencil but he keeps doing what he loves.

So boycott away. :(

[Killer Bee]

... are you talking about Michael Turner?

The guy who is fighting recurring cancer, getting chemo treatments that is still managing to work, AND run Aspen?

THAT guy? You'd boycott him because he's LATE? I support the hell outa him because despite the recurring cancer the guy still does what he loves and I'm sure there are days when he can barely hold a pencil but he keeps doing what he loves.

So boycott away. :(

You know, I was talking out of my ass there. I'm in absolutely no position to talk considering I have every single Fathom issue, currently reading Shrugged!, and am currently hunting down every single Soul Fire issue. I love his work and I love Aspen. I think I brought that part up because I'm pissed off that he's doing more work as a cover artist for Marvel and DC rather than getting busy on his Aspen stuff which always has erratic release dates. (Shrugged! 4 was barely released this week and who the hell needs a Soul Fire 0 issue?)

Ignore the Turner part and replace it with...with...Liefeld. Yes. Replace it with Liefeld. :D

Actually don't replace it with Liefeld...I respect that guy...despite all the crap he takes (which is well deserved) he still manages to find work with Marvel and people still buy his books. Hell, he's still on Wizard's Top 10 so that must say something.

I'll just boycott McNivster...and Whedon. I hate Astonishing X-Men because of his writing.

[IamtheRock3]

ONE single issue of All Star Batman shipped in 2006. ONE (1) issue! Only 4 issues of All Star Superman shipped. (Edited to be correct: Only 4 issues shipped as #1 shipped in Nov of 2005)

How can you say the delays of CW are making Marvel look wholly incompetent while DC shipped ONE SINGLE ISSUE of All Star Batman over the span of a WHOLE YEAR???

I know you have a hate on for Marvel and Civil War right now... but at least try and be objective.

McNiven was ill which delayed #6... it stands to reason he would be behind for #7 AND they added FREE pages. After the (as you put it) flustercuck that was Infinite Crisis and the various artists, the rush to complete and the new and added pages for the hard cover... I'll gladly wait 3 weeks for a superior product than a half-assed and rushed one.

And you didn't explain how DC learned from their mistakes and yet still allow the two All Star books to ship chronically late (later than CW will ever be). I think it's becase they like the creative teams, fans like the teams and everyone would rather wait for (again) a superior product than one done by fill-in's.


well dont think anout saying All star delay is not retarted. And I think it hurts the All star line

But Cival war their main EVEN book. Worst let when the book delayed, it delays the numorous comics that tied into it, making them late

it like a virus of latness

[Sijo]

The worst thing about the CW delays is that it seems to indicate that Marvel no longer cares about keeping their deadlines. How many of their comics, including Major ones like Fantastic Four, came out late this year? To say nothing of stuff like Quesada's own "Father" mini. Combined with the "the trades are what really matter" mentality that led to all the decompressed stories we have today, I can only fear that the age of the monthly comics is coming to an end (and remember, this isn't just a matter of keeping the fans waiting, it hurts the retailers, too.)

[MAK15]

The worst thing about the CW delays is that it seems to indicate that Marvel no longer cares about keeping their deadlines. How many of their comics, including Major ones like Fantastic Four, came out late this year? To say nothing of stuff like Quesada's own "Father" mini. Combined with the "the trades are what really matter" mentality that led to all the decompressed stories we have today, I can only fear that the age of the monthly comics is coming to an end (and remember, this isn't just a matter of keeping the fans waiting, it hurts the retailers, too.)

well, lemme ask you a question: which would you rather have?
A.) Titles on time, regardless of the quality of art.

or

B.) Fantastic art, with titles being a lil' late.

or possibly

C.) I'd rather spend my money on bubble gum and pokemon cards.

regardless of how late the main event or even the tie-ins are, you have to admit that this is one of the most succesful venture that Marvel or DC has done in quite sometime. even if the comics shops are hurting, the main title and all the tie-ins are being bought out month after month with second, maybe even third printings, so the money's being made, even if its a month behind.

[Keith_Martineau]

Actually I think it's the fact that the series that are late see virutally no drop in sales due to their lateness thats lead to this perception from Marvel.

While it's important to keep the trains running on time---if a few big ones are regularly late, but people STILL ride them instead of finding alternate transportation, then what incentive is there for them to try any harder to keep them running on time. If people stopped RIDING those trains, then they're change.

Or, for those whose head this metaphor has flown over.

Angry about lateness? Don't buy the book. If sales drop because of lateness, Marvel will be forced to try a lot harder in the future to be on time. This is their main line that this event has effected, and the lateness has not hurt sales at all. Whats keeping Marvel from thinking that it's okay to have more late issues if they still make their damn money?

[MAK15]

Actually I think it's the fact that the series that are late see virutally no drop in sales due to their lateness thats lead to this perception from Marvel.

While it's important to keep the trains running on time---if a few big ones are regularly late, but people STILL ride them instead of finding alternate transportation, then what incentive is there for them to try any harder to keep them running on time. If people stopped RIDING those trains, then they're change.



you're train metaphor is the best thing I've read on this board EVER!

[agrich]

Whats keeping Marvel from thinking that it's okay to have more late issues if they still make their damn money?

Pretty much correct. (Hasn't everyone heard the trains metaphor? A funny take I heard on it was, well sure, the trains are running on time, but everyone is STARVING! Anyway.)

There are three kinds of people here:

1. People (like me) who don't care that much about the books being late.

2. People who care a lot about the books being late and complain about it, but continue to buy them anyway.

3. People who care a lot about the books being late and complain about it, and don't buy them.

I'd guess that 1 and 2 account for the vast majority of comic fans, with 3 a small percentage. And there you go.

[Sijo]

well, lemme ask you a question: which would you rather have?
A.) Titles on time, regardless of the quality of art.

or

B.) Fantastic art, with titles being a lil' late.

or possibly

C.) I'd rather spend my money on bubble gum and pokemon cards.

regardless of how late the main event or even the tie-ins are, you have to admit that this is one of the most succesful venture that Marvel or DC has done in quite sometime. even if the comics shops are hurting, the main title and all the tie-ins are being bought out month after month with second, maybe even third printings, so the money's being made, even if its a month behind.One pack of Pokemon Cards, please! :p

But seriously, it's the long-terms effects of the overall delays (in DC as well- how long was it between Wonder Woman # 2 and #3 again?) that I worry about. Some of us have problems picking up comics regularly (I have to drive to another city to buy them) and things like constant delays do *not* encourage us to keep buying a series.

I foresee that in the not-too-distant future, there won't be regular series anymore, only miniseries (with irregular schedules) that get collected and resold as trades. Let's see what the economics of the industry will be then.

[The Shadow]

Some of us have problems picking up comics regularly (I have to drive to another city to buy them) and things like constant delays do *not* encourage us to keep buying a series.

But what does it matter?

I don't know your schedule but I doubt you make it around what comics are released. If you go once a month... you're going once a month regardless of late books.

[Killer Bee]

Boycott Civil War. Read them in your comic shops.

[The Shadow]

Boycott Civil War. Read them in your comic shops.

AGREE 100%!

Don't support your local comic shop, basically steal the merchandise and DO NOT PAY FOR IT!!!

That'll show Marvel :rolleyes:

[Fatguy]

haha!

Yea, excellent idea.

[Sijo]

But what does it matter?

I don't know your schedule but I doubt you make it around what comics are released. If you go once a month... you're going once a month regardless of late books.No, I go when the comics I want to buy (which are a lot less these days, especially since I quit buying DC comics) are supposed to be there. Especially if I expect them to sell out quickly. I think that if they are *not* there when I go, I have a right to be annoyed. Yes, I understand that sh*t happens and schedules can fail. I cut them some slack. But delaying an entire crossover, not once but several times? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person who doesn't like that.

[IamtheRock3]

well, lemme ask you a question: which would you rather have?
A.) Titles on time, regardless of the quality of art.

or

B.) Fantastic art, with titles being a lil' late.

or possibly

C.) I'd rather spend my money on bubble gum and pokemon cards.

regardless of how late the main event or even the tie-ins are, you have to admit that this is one of the most succesful venture that Marvel or DC has done in quite sometime. even if the comics shops are hurting, the main title and all the tie-ins are being bought out month after month with second, maybe even third printings, so the money's being made, even if its a month behind.


Promblem is seem to be a growing idea that you cant have a combo of 1 and 2

I dont mind if it late every now and then. Heck dont mind if it Late a week or two

But when you constanly late, and late by a good deal. Then when that said latness affects multiple of comics who actully (made on time). Well then you have a promblem

[IamtheRock3]

AGREE 100%!

Don't support your local comic shop, basically steal the merchandise and DO NOT PAY FOR IT!!!

That'll show Marvel :rolleyes:

Or you could read the late ones in store. And still buy other comics that on time which you like. Comics shops do just find then

[The Shadow]

Or you could read the late ones in store. And still buy other comics that on time which you like. Comics shops do just find then

... wow... that's all I can say to that!

[Omega Alpha]

What a surprise:rolleyes:

Are we even sure that the delay was caused by the artist? Because in AXM, it turned out that the delay from #18 on was caused by a stupid editorial decision. I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same here.

[IamtheRock3]

... wow... that's all I can say to that!


Hey didnt say it was morale

But store get the same amount of cash

[The Shadow]

But store get the same amount of cash

... what? How do you figure?

The store had to order the copy of Civil War which he's saying read for free. The store then loses that sale and does NOT get the same amount of cash.

Unless you are using new math (which I never got) I don't see how you can say that at all.

[IamtheRock3]

... what? How do you figure?

The store had to order the copy of Civil War which he's saying read for free. The store then loses that sale and does NOT get the same amount of cash.

Unless you are using new math (which I never got) I don't see how you can say that at all.

Not if you buy another comic to replace it, that wouldnt have sold without your buying it. Something good comic, on time

Store sale the same amount of comics. Because granted that copy of cival war, but a cop of say MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS sold

Both comics cost 3.99

So if you brough Cival War, you wouldnt have brough MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS

but if you do buy MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS, you dont buy Cival war

In both cases they were order, in both cases the clerk sold it

[Killer Bee]

AGREE 100%!

Don't support your local comic shop, basically steal the merchandise and DO NOT PAY FOR IT!!!

That'll show Marvel :rolleyes:

Unlike your local comic shop (which much totally be stone cold and unfriendly) mine actually get to know the customers and show their appreciation to their customers by realizing that comic books aren't a cheap venture and thus not everyone can afford to buy every single book they want, so for that reason, they'll allow me and other customers to hang out with them at the shop even if it's to read a bunch of comic books that they just can't get.

Besides, I have a 47 title pull list.

[The Shadow]

Unlike your local comic shop (which much totally be stone cold and unfriendly) mine actually get to know the customers and show their appreciation to their customers by realizing that comic books aren't a cheap venture and thus not everyone can afford to buy every single book they want, so for that reason, they'll allow me and other customers to hang out with them at the shop even if it's to read a bunch of comic books that they just can't get.
Miine is fantastic!

The owner himself will bring me my comics if I'm sick and can't make it to the store. I get 30% off and no tax on trades (when I buy them) and free bags and boards. But I wouldn't stand and read his books.

Besides, I have a 47 title pull list.
I get over 65 books per month ;)

[The Shadow]

Not if you buy another comic to replace it, that wouldnt have sold without your buying it. Something good comic, on time

Store sale the same amount of comics. Because granted that copy of cival war, but a cop of say MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS sold

Both comics cost 3.99

So if you brough Cival War, you wouldnt have brough MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS

but if you do buy MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS, you dont buy Cival war

In both cases they were order, in both cases the clerk sold it

I gotcha!

Now I see what you mean.

[xarathos]

You people should do what I do, if you don't like Civil War don't buy it or it's connected issues. Instead by back issues you've wanted for a while. There's still some Marvel stuff that has nothing to do with this monstrosity. I bought $30 of stuff yesterday and that includes old issues of the Hulk, Uncanny X-men, and others. Stuff I really wanted. The owner still gets his cash.

Honestly, do you see the great Civil War collection in ten years? I don't.

[IamtheRock3]

I gotcha!

Now I see what you mean.

Also according to your argument, doesnt the the store lose months least for the months it late, namely sense the TIES END..not the ones shots..but other comics that there own monthly comic but delayed from cival war.

So for those months of delays they lose money. Namely when customer who just come in every now and then or when they in the area. Non weekly customer that not gurateed to come back when it was out


me I got two stores

one where I do work, and one near home. I shop at which ever convient, like when I have finsih eat fast on my break

so isnt marvel screwing it retailers

[Crimson]

Not if you buy another comic to replace it, that wouldnt have sold without your buying it. Something good comic, on time

Store sale the same amount of comics. Because granted that copy of cival war, but a cop of say MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS sold

Both comics cost 3.99

So if you brough Cival War, you wouldnt have brough MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS

but if you do buy MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS, you dont buy Cival war

In both cases they were order, in both cases the clerk sold it

But you've read two comics... so you should pay for two.

I don't walk into a DVD store, watch a DVD in my portable DVD player and then buy another one.

[The Shadow]

Also according to your argument, doesnt the the store lose months least for the months it late, namely sense the TIES END..not the ones shots..but other comics that there own monthly comic but delayed from cival war.
No because the comics show eventually. The retailer doesn't pay for the product until it ships.

A quick question though about your boycott... who would want 6 issues of CW which they have collected since #1 and why would they want MEGA AWESOME MIDGET FIGHTERS which is a book they don't get regularly? ;)

[MAK15]

But you've read two comics... so you should pay for two.

I don't walk into a DVD store, watch a DVD in my portable DVD player and then buy another one.

good, because that's just wrong.

[IamtheRock3]

good, because that's just wrong.


Some clerks let you read if they know you will buy something

I mean could tell you to get the F out. Simple as that



And to shawdow

Yes the may of brought it on the day it ships. But a cutomer that comes every now and then may not buy it cause they miss it that day, and may just buy it from a differnt place when it convient

Know it happen to me with Devil Due's comic. Brought differnt issues from differnt stores.

[Killer Bee]

Miine is fantastic!

The owner himself will bring me my comics if I'm sick and can't make it to the store. I get 30% off and no tax on trades (when I buy them) and free bags and boards. But I wouldn't stand and read his books.


I get over 65 books per month ;)

I get no taxes at all! (If I pay with cash. >_>) I also get free bags and boards (high five!) You are crazy though. I only get a 15%, but that's on everything including busts and statues which is a damn good thing since I'm big on the Women of the DCU busts.

See the thing is, he allows and even encourages his pull customers to come in and hang out for a while and read some books. It's not like I just walk-in unannounced, put my feet on the table and just read right away.

He'll usually go, "Hey Killer Bee! How ya doing today? Anyway, here's your pull and check this out! This trade I talked about the other day came in! Read it right now if you've got the time."

[Crimson]

Some clerks let you read if they know you will buy something

I mean could tell you to get the F out. Simple as that



And to shawdow

Yes the may of brought it on the day it ships. But a cutomer that comes every now and then may not buy it cause they miss it that day, and may just buy it from a differnt place when it convient

Know it happen to me with Devil Due's comic. Brought differnt issues from differnt stores.

See that's different, if the individual store has a policy where they are happy to let people read comics in the store that's fine.

[Capt USA]

You people should do what I do, if you don't like Civil War don't buy it or it's connected issues. Instead by back issues you've wanted for a while. There's still some Marvel stuff that has nothing to do with this monstrosity. I bought $30 of stuff yesterday and that includes old issues of the Hulk, Uncanny X-men, and others. Stuff I really wanted. The owner still gets his cash.

Honestly, do you see the great Civil War collection in ten years? I don't.


honestly I didn't expect to see the authority collected(or even exist after two years, figured it was pretty much in the same vein as OC, an era event book that has absolutely no value outside of the 2 years that someone with no moral compass was collecting comics)

And I surely never expected for infinite crisis or identity crisis, two books vastly, and I mean vastly inferior to civil war. and by vastly I mean the difference in quality between the New York Yankees in a given year and a little league baseball team, to ever be collected, yet it has been also.