Superman needs a definitive female villain.

[Jonathan]

Batman's had interesting confrontations and interactions with Catwoman on a pretty much regular basis for well over half a century. Superman, though, hasn't ever faced a regularly recurring female threat. Which isn't too surprising; offhand, I can't think of a single really notable female Superman villain. I like Maxima and Faora, and Ursa from Superman II...but I don't think that they're tier-one villains. And so, I think that a memorable recurring female villain for Superman is long overdue.

My ideal major female villain for Superman is a sorceress, 'cause Superman's particularly vulnerable to magic, and besides, really, he's got more than enough technology-oriented enemies already. I've been lazily looking into the history of DC's female magic-users online from time to time today, trying to find a magic-using female villain with a simple origin, straightforward motiviations, and powers that aren't too silly and/or complex, but so far, other than Circe (who I prefer as a Wonder Woman villain), I've not found anybody I like too much. :/

Anyway - do you think that Superman needs a memorable female foe, and if so, what kind of villain would you like her to be?

[Eliseu Gouveia]

What I liked about Maxima was that she added color to the mix.
She was not only a villain (- hey, stay with me :) )but also a potential love interest.

We need another one of those and preferably someone who´s an actual threat to him.

A sorceress could do that but we already have MXYPTLK handling the magic angle.

[Xero Kaiser]

Male..female..Superman needs better villains in general

[Eliseu Gouveia]

True, Toyman or MXYPTLK don´t have a tenth of the coolness Batman´s rogues have.

For the longest time I had high hopes in Darkseid but alas the pod people replaced him for Jobberseid.

[marshal99]

Besides Circe , there's also Morgaine le Fey who mostly battle Demon and Wonder woman. She has also appeared a couple of times in the JLU cartoon if you may remember. In the comics , she once enslave superman to do her bidding in camelot times in the saga "Time and time again".

For female foes of superman , there's maxima , silver banshee , Blaze (it's been a long while since she has appeared which is kind of a waste as she's a good villain) , puzzler , livewire , the female parasite which is all i can think of right now.

Superman doesn't need more foes , just need to establish the villains he has with better credentials instead of making them look like crap. They can also bring some villains from the pre-crisis era to post-crisis.

[Rik Levins]

Back in the Sixties, Superboy tangled with the Emerald Empress a few times in the Legion series. As originally written, she was a murderous sociopath who was nevertheless pretty hot (especially as drawn by Curt Swan), had an interest in the Boy of Steel, and possessed a weapon (the Emerald Eye), that was certainly powerful enough to pose a serious threat to him. Plus she often carried Kryptonite, and seemed to enjoy using it.

Her history with Supes has probably been retconned out of existence by now, but that could always be restored, and I wouldn't mind seeing her turn up in the present century looking to complicate his life.

Star Sapphire would also make an interesting opponent.

[marshal99]

Emerald empress has always been a legion foe , a member of the fatal five. The only time superman fought her and the rest of the fatal five post crisis (or at least a hardlight holographic representation) was just before OWAW in superman 171.

If anything , i would love to see a fatal five/JLA clash maybe in a legion/JLA crossover , the fatal five is certainly more than a match for the JLA.

As for Star Sapphire , the last one was killed by the spectre.
http://www.delaurenti.net/images/s261.jpg

[Nate Grey]

Anyway - do you think that Superman needs a memorable female foe

Not really, no. But then again its a matter of the chicken and the egg: he needs better foes in general, and THEN we get to the better male or female foes.

Besides, off the top of my head there's Encantadora and Livewire, so its not like the writers aren't trying (and luckily they don't believe in borrowing villains from other heroes). Both Encantadora and Livewire are grey areas, though (while evil, both do have the capacity for good and aren't too petty), so if you mean someone PURE evil a la Darkseid, I guess a new villainess could be created for that function, despite seeming kind of obvious.

EDIT: Almost forgot the female Parasite.

[Apathy Boy]

To be fair, there aren't that many definitive female villains, period. After Catwoman, Cheetah, Talia and maybe Elektra, the pool of female arch-villains starts to run shallow.

[stealthwise]

To be fair, there aren't that many definitive female villains, period. After Catwoman, Cheetah, Talia and maybe Elektra, the pool of female arch-villains starts to run shallow.

What about:

Emma Frost
Poison Ivy
Harley Quinn
Star Sapphire (as mentioned above)
Shiva
White Rabbit... ok, now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[ForEverAncien]

More like punching your way through...:D
What about:

Emma Frost
Poison Ivy
Harley Quinn
Star Sapphire (as mentioned above)
Shiva
White Rabbit... ok, now I'm scraping the bottom of the barrel.

[marshal99]

Like i said , Blaze should make a return. She's a supernatural being , powerful enough to hurt superman and rules her own corner of hell dimension.

http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/Images/Characters/Blaze.jpg

[Eliseu Gouveia]

That´s another reason why I love anime/manga.

Male or female, you always have OODLES of memorable villains to pick from.

[The Mirrorball Man]

Maxima, Livewire, Silver Banshee, the Female Furies... I don't think that Superman's female villains are any worse than his male villains.

[Damo]

What I liked about Maxima was that she added color to the mix.
She was not only a villain (- hey, stay with me :) )

Nnnnooooope, sorry, can't.

She wasn't a villain. She was a slightly pushier Lana Lang that eventually joined the Justice League.

Superman's female "villains" are disgracefully pathetic, and it certainly doesn't help matters when all of the recently introduced ones were turned into jokes OYL. Puzzler? Defeated with a trash can. Livewire and Silver Banshee? Non-threats defeated by a depowered Superman despite the fact that they were teamed up with fellow non-threats like Bloodsport.

[geordiesteve]

Anyway - do you think that Superman needs a memorable female foe, and if so, what kind of villain would you like her to be?

If it's simply for the purpose of being politically correct, then no, he does not. Because that would be bollocks.

Does he need more decent or major villains in general that scare the pants off you, other than a bald meglomaniac who wants to kill him and take over the world? Then yes, in my opinion he does, and if one of the new major players was a woman, that's fine.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Besides Circe , there's also Morgaine le Fey who mostly battle Demon and Wonder woman. She has also appeared a couple of times in the JLU cartoon if you may remember. In the comics , she once enslave superman to do her bidding in camelot times in the saga "Time and time again".

For female foes of superman , there's maxima , silver banshee , Blaze (it's been a long while since she has appeared which is kind of a waste as she's a good villain) , puzzler , livewire , the female parasite which is all i can think of right now.

Superman doesn't need more foes , just need to establish the villains he has with better credentials instead of making them look like crap. They can also bring some villains from the pre-crisis era to post-crisis.

There's also The Queen Of Fables, and Ursa was recently introduced as a comic-book character. I'd like for Maxima to return, and The Silver Banshee has potential.

BTW, I forgot the female Parasite, too. I also remember La Encantadora.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Like i said , Blaze should make a return. She's a supernatural being , powerful enough to hurt superman and rules her own corner of hell dimension.

http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/Images/Characters/Blaze.jpg

Nonetheless, I have a feeling that she was killed by The Spectre, off-panel. After all, her brother Lord Satanus was killed by the hostless Spirit in an issue of Action Comics, so presuming she was killed as well doesn't seem too much of a stretch.

[marshal99]

Nonetheless, I have a feeling that she was killed by The Spectre, off-panel. After all, her brother Lord Satanus was killed by the hostless Spirit in an issue of Action Comics, so presuming she was killed as well doesn't seem too much of a stretch.

Yup , but since it was not shown or implied , it's also not much of a stretch to bring her back. :)
Mongul Jr was suppose to be dead in OWAW killed by Doomsday but he came back without any explainations in ending battle. Too many "dead" villains nowadays just came back without explainations.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

You're right. The Superboy Prime punch can work in mysterious ways. And that can be good. Wouldn't mind if they brought Satanus back, too. Superman needs some more paranormal/magical enemies.

[Hush Little Batman]

If I had my way, as a means to truly give Superman a great female villain, my choice would be Supergirl. And it'd have nothing to do with her being mind controlled either; It'd be a clear, conscious decision on her part to go bad because it's easier and more fun.

Emotionally it would devastate Clark to know that his cousin is a villain and in league with the bad guys and on a physical level, though her powers are not as strong as his, she can still give him a fight. While I'm sure some fans would feel that would tarnish the Supergirl legacy, I say it'd make her relevant by elevating her above from being another Superman knockoff. Plus, it'd show that Kryptonians aren't a race of pure good or bad beings, but have shades of gray. Any of them, for any number of reasons, can grow up to be a bad person...even a family member.

[KET]

If I had my way, as a means to truly give Superman a great female villain, my choice would be Supergirl. And it'd have nothing to do with her being mind controlled either; It'd be a clear, conscious decision on her part to go bad because it's easier and more fun.


Well, this already seems to be the cliche direction DC is taking with the current "Britany-bad girl" SG. Unfortunately, the problem will be she's still going to be a Britany-bimbo even if she goes all-out "bad girl".



Emotionally it would devastate Clark to know that his cousin is a villain and in league with the bad guys and on a physical level, though her powers are not as strong as his, she can still give him a fight. While I'm sure some fans would feel that would tarnish the Supergirl legacy, I say it'd make her relevant by elevating her above from being another Superman knockoff.

Doubtful. This dubious idea would merely make Supergirl into just another dull female Kryptonian thug, ala Ursa or Mala.

[karasu]

Yeah, I think they've toyed with Supergirl enough already. If she goes bad, it'd only result in yet another Supergirl being introduced a couple of years later.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Yeah, I think they've toyed with Supergirl enough already. If she goes bad, it'd only result in yet another Supergirl being introduced a couple of years later.

Or maybe a lipstick lesbian Superwoman. ;)

Personally, I am all for a female supervillain who also acts as a love interest.

I want to see Superman tempted.

Getting married turned the man into a bore, a wannabe saint who wouldn´t sleep with Wonder Woman if he spent 1,000 years in hell.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

If I had my way, as a means to truly give Superman a great female villain, my choice would be Supergirl. And it'd have nothing to do with her being mind controlled either; It'd be a clear, conscious decision on her part to go bad because it's easier and more fun.

Emotionally it would devastate Clark to know that his cousin is a villain and in league with the bad guys and on a physical level, though her powers are not as strong as his, she can still give him a fight. While I'm sure some fans would feel that would tarnish the Supergirl legacy, I say it'd make her relevant by elevating her above from being another Superman knockoff. Plus, it'd show that Kryptonians aren't a race of pure good or bad beings, but have shades of gray. Any of them, for any number of reasons, can grow up to be a bad person...even a family member.

Interesting. It would give Superman a reason to kick her ass from here to the remains of Krypton. And very, very badly.

Or maybe a lipstick lesbian Superwoman. ;)

Count me in. ;)

Personally, I am all for a female supervillain who also acts as a love interest.

I want to see Superman tempted.

Getting married turned the man into a bore, a wannabe saint who wouldn´t sleep with Wonder Woman if he spent 1,000 years in hell.

I tend to agree with this. Seeing another woman who makes the moves on Superman could prove interesting.

Every time I remember he didn't sleep with Wondy when in Asgard, I want to inject the guy with red K, to see if he reacts.

It's Wonder FREAKIN' Woman, dammit. ;) Wonder being the operative word here.

[karasu]

Yeah, but Wonder Woman is kind of a brutish butthead. Maybe Supes just doesn't like the musty domineering types.

[Eliseu Gouveia]

After 1,000 years fighting demons, he should have slept with a mushroom if one suddenly started talking to him, let alone Wonder "gifted-with-the-beauty-of-Aphrodite-herself" Woman

[karasu]

Eh. she's not so hot. I never found that to be the most unbelievable aspect of the story. What bothered me is the idea of fighting a war without killing. As if a cosmic referee steps in and if you're not standing by the time they count to ten, you're out of the siege. Winning wars by KO's, wtf

[SensorBoy]

Wonder Woman is way too preachy.

That said, it's going to be a hoot when she starts yammering on now:

WW: Man's World is so violent and warlike!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/WWMax.png

Guy: Max Lord's neck made a sound like Rice Krispies when you snapped it.

WW:......

Besides, Superman's into mermaids, anyway.

[Kintales]

I think Lady Ecilpso would be a fine female villain for Supes. (Dun know what condition she is in now though). She might just be the 'ecilpse' that can block out the Sun from Big blue and do all kinds of nasty things to him.
(Just imagine she could be Rogue-like and suck all the solar energy from his body :p )

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Wonder Woman is way too preachy.

That said, it's going to be a hoot when she starts yammering on now:

WW: Man's World is so violent and warlike!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/36/WWMax.png

Guy: Max Lord's neck made a sound like Rice Krispies when you snapped it.

WW:......

Besides, Superman's into mermaids, anyway.

100% agreed.

Wonder Woman should never have taken Max Lord out.

She should have backed away from that fight and left him and Superman by themselves, only nice, decent good things would come out of that "joint-venture".

[Erik Lehnsherr]

Yeah, I think they've toyed with Supergirl enough already. If she goes bad, it'd only result in yet another Supergirl being introduced a couple of years later.

Don't turn Supergirl bad yet. I may have to start buying her series on a regular basis. Make her the third part of the Triple Threat(Amazing Spider Girl and She-Hulk).

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

Kara is supposed to kill Kal and it haunts her on a daily basis. I actually like that about her.

Like all those times before Crisis when she was talking to him, her fathers voice would continually pound in her head "Do it, do it now!" (See the most recent supergirl)

[SensorBoy]

100% agreed.

Wonder Woman should never have taken Max Lord out.

She should have backed away from that fight and left him and Superman by themselves, only nice, decent good things would come out of that "joint-venture".

No, I think WW taking out Max was good. At the very least, I hope it will cause her to knock off all the "Man's World is so......" crap that was the hallmark of her own Title. Or, more amusingly, have her keep it up and then get called on it by Gardner or one of the other designated DC snarks.

[Damo]

No, I think WW taking out Max was good. At the very least, I hope it will cause her to knock off all the "Man's World is so......" crap that was the hallmark of her own Title. Or, more amusingly, have her keep it up and then get called on it by Gardner or one of the other designated DC snarks.


How in the world does what happened damage her argument at all? Yes, she says that the man's world is warlike. You will note that on Themyscira nobody has ever gone around for years pretneding to be a friend before mind controlling a trusted comrade and sending them on killing rampages. Maxwell Lord put her in a situation where her only two options were to either kill him, or let him send Superman around killing people, possibly including her. Chosing to take out Lord doesn't make her warlike, it makes her sensible. There is a huge difference between going to war over greed, hatred, pride, or ignorance and killing a man that presents a clear danger to the lives of others.

[captain_unimpressive]

Or maybe a lipstick lesbian Superwoman.

Well, there's already the new Batwoman.
But, then again, there's a World's Finest that I would subscribe to. :D

[Nate Grey]

WW was in the middle of a beatdown from Superman; Lord turned him "off" simply to gloat. Guess WW should have took that beatdown.

This discussion, though, is neither hear nor there, and has been beaten to death on the DC forum. I urge others not to continue it here.

Kara is supposed to kill Kal and it haunts her on a daily basis. I actually like that about her.

Like all those times before Crisis when she was talking to him, her fathers voice would continually pound in her head "Do it, do it now!" (See the most recent supergirl)

See I didn't know that. I wouldn't mind seeing it come to a head. Maybe if she killed an evil clone of Superman the voice would go away?

[Nate Grey]

Well, there's already the new Batwoman.
But, then again, there's a World's Finest that I would subscribe to. :D

I'd love to see Linda Danvers become Superwoman, honestly.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Volcana is my pick. :) shes sexy, and if her powers were magicial she be a threat to him. :) until he speed blitzs her.

[Kage Kisaragi]

See I didn't know that. I wouldn't mind seeing it come to a head. Maybe if she killed an evil clone of Superman the voice would go away?

Which she could have done in the Kandor arc, had they finished it. Maybe she'll go back and kill ultraman. :)

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Volcana is my pick. :) shes sexy, and if her powers were magicial she be a threat to him. :) until he speed blitzs her.

Who's that Volcana girl? A Pre or Post-Crisis character?

[Froggy]

Who's that Volcana girl? A Pre or Post-Crisis character?

neither good sir, an animated series character, who COULD get the livewire treatment (become a comic character)

[Damo]

Yeah... lava's got a history of hurting Superman, doesn't it?

Oh, wait, no, he doesn't mind it at all.

Bad idea for a villain.

[Kage Kisaragi]

Yeah... lava's got a history of hurting Superman, doesn't it?

Oh, wait, no, he doesn't mind it at all.

Bad idea for a villain.

Volcana never controlled lava to my knowledge she was a straight up pyrokinetic... and like my post said, IF her powers were made magic based she'd be a threat until speed blitzed. Infact I'd hope they'd up her animated power levels to something a little more original in terms of depth.

[mattx110]

didn't he used to have to deal with banshee? the one who kills people like, instantly. idk if she can outfight him, but she can hold a whole lot of people hostage and get away with a whole lot more.

[Kage Kisaragi]

im thinking somewhere down the line a Bizarro Gurl will make a appearance.

[Nate Grey]

im thinking somewhere down the line a Bizarro Gurl will make a appearance.

Well one did for the Linda Danvers Supergirl. Seems like if another, different one pops up, she'd be a villain for Kara, not Supes.

[Kage Kisaragi]

You probably right, but wouldnt she fight Superman since current Kara Loves Superman and doesnt want to kill him despite it being her purpose. Bizarro Kara should Hate Superman but wants to love him because it was her mission? O_o ROLMAO! XD

Bizarro Gurl: Me Hate Superman!!! *gives Clark kick in the jimmy.*
Voice in BG's Head: (Hug him, he is your family!)
Bizarro Gurl: NNNOOOOO! ME HATE SUPERMAN!

[666MasterOfPuppets]

neither good sir, an animated series character, who COULD get the livewire treatment (become a comic character)

Thanx for the info.

[bannermanonemillion]

Y'know, if you're gonna make up a new female villain for Supes, try to remember the old standard of villains: they're twisted versions of your hero.

The Bat-rogues are dangerous, apespit crazy geniuses. The Flash's Rogues Gallery are mostly blue-collar bad guys who mainly want to make their own way in the world rather than rule it. Spidey's rogues are animal-themed examples of science gone wrong. Etc, etc.

Superman's enemies should be reminescent of the Man of Steel himself.

A great way to intro a new villainess (ok, I feel silly just writing that) would be to bring in a new female character into Clark's world like a new employee at the Planet, a new Met cop, something. She's friendly and actually helps Superman. We keep her around for about a year or two in real time till she earns a place in Superman's supporting cast.

Then we kick the legs out from under the whole shebang.

Turns out she's actually an alien/sorceress/whathaveyou with a massive agenda and she intends to take down Superman once and for all. But first she had to gain his trust. You don't do that by being nice for a little while, you do it by being an asset. You help out once, twice, twenty times until everyone from the fans to Superman himself is convinced she's one of the good guys then BAM! the betrayal feels like a kick in the junk.

A mysterious bruiser showing up in town knocking over buildings is one thing. Wearing the glowing neon "I'M A BAD GUY" sign is one thing. But to earn the Man of Steel's trust then stab him in the back with it......

It's just an idea, mind you.

[bannermanonemillion]

Well, there's already the new Batwoman.
But, then again, there's a World's Finest that I would subscribe to. :D

*throws head back and says*

"that's mildly amusing"

[Darthfury78]

Lashina is certainly one of the best female adversaries in the DC Universe. I certainly love her no holds bared additude. She remains me of Amora, the Enchantress who wants Thor all to herself.

In the DC Animated Universe, Lashina is attracted to Superman. In Legacy, they became lovers, despite the notion that Kal-El was brainwashed by Granny Goodness. It would seem that Lashina's curiousity with Kal-El had more than exceed her expectations.

I figured that of all of Superman's female enemies, Lashina would be proud to carry his child with love and devotion. My assumption became a reality when I learned that there was a completed script that showed that Lashina and Kal-El have a son who rules Apokolips.

I still feel that Lashina still has romantic feelings for Superman. If only we could see this relationship carry over to the mainstream DC Universe. Lashina is the one villian who I could see evolve into Superman's companion like Cyclops and Emma Frost. I certainly want to see Lashina and Superman in the same manner as Batman and Catwoman. Afterall, she was a member of the Suicide Squad as Duchess. Although, I want to see Lashina in the Superman comics more often.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6535/1371665-furies_bab_01_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7658/351650-147072-lashina_super.jpg

[Nate Grey]

Thread necromancy!

[Mr. Holmes]

True, Toyman or MXYPTLK don´t have a tenth of the coolness Batman´s rogues have

Oh please, even Batman has his share of lame rogues. Mxy is a Loki-ish prankster, and Toyman is creepy, twisted version of a child's play thing, which actually fits in line with a Batman villain.

From there, you have Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Brainiac, Zod, etc. Superman's rogue gallery is better than given credit for.

[dupersuper]

Oh please, even Batman has his share of lame rogues. Mxy is a Loki-ish prankster, and Toyman is creepy, twisted version of a child's play thing, which actually fits in line with a Batman villain.

From there, you have Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Brainiac, Zod, etc. Superman's rogue gallery is better than given credit for.

It also has several female villains that could be upgraded (Faora, Ursa, Blaze, Silver Banshee, Livewire, Volcana, Kryptonian ice goddess, Spider Lady, 1 of the Blackrocks, 2nd Puzzler...).

[Silvermoth]

As a huge Byrne fan, I always loved the look of Banshee. Someone should raise her profile a bit...

http://scifimafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/silver_banshee_comic.jpg

[Mat001]

Right now the definitive female is definately Ursa. Granted, we haven't seen much in the way of battle between them, but she does have the potential to rise to the challenge. She's brutal, efficent and all sorts of evil.

Oh please, even Batman has his share of lame rogues.

Indeed. Tweedledee, Tweedledum, the Cavalier and Maxie Zeus to name a few.

[Nate Grey]

As a huge Byrne fan, I always loved the look of Banshee. Someone should raise her profile a bit...

http://scifimafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/silver_banshee_comic.jpg

I'd say she has the most exposure in the animated realm (where it wasn't just a cameo or an amalgam character compared to Ursa), so yes, she would be THE definitive Superman female baddy for right now. I guess it should be Ursa, but its Silver Banshee.

Instead of being just a brick (speed, strength, flight, endurance), she also has powers Superman doesn't (the sonic wail and teleportation) that can potentially give Supes a run for his money. According to her wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Banshee), she's supposed to kill people with her wail if she knows their true name.

[Silvermoth]

Oh yeah, I forgot about Ursa. She's awesome!

[Ravenwing263]

I'd say she has the most exposure in the animated realm (where it wasn't just a cameo or an amalgam character compared to Ursa), so yes, she would be THE definitive Superman female baddy for right now. I guess it should be Ursa, but its Silver Banshee.

I always thought Livewire got the most animated exposure of all the ladies.

Other then granny, I guess.

Instead of being just a brick (speed, strength, flight, endurance), she also has powers Superman doesn't (the sonic wail and teleportation) that can potentially give Supes a run for his money. According to her wiki page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_Banshee), she's supposed to kill people with her wail if she knows their true name.

I feel like she's really found her niche as a Supergirl villain, to tell you the truth.

[Death Itself]

Anyway - do you think that Superman needs a memorable female foe, and if so, what kind of villain would you like her to be?

No and the reason Catwoman works for Batman is that she's also his love interest and always has been. Sexual tension and romance has always been a part of their relationship. Notice how Poison Ivy isn't on the same level. That's not really possible with Superman any longer.

[Nate Grey]

I always thought Livewire got the most animated exposure of all the ladies.

Other then granny, I guess.

Yep, you're right. Looking at her wiki, I think she has one more appearance than SB, but I think she was also a recurring villain as well.

I feel like she's really found her niche as a Supergirl villain, to tell you the truth.

I don't read Supergirl so I wouldn't know, but personally, I have never been a fan of importing villains around. Feels like...laziness, like the writer can't come up with their own original villain so they'll pick a villain from a writer who could.

Silver Banshee is a Superman villain. I think she works well as a Superman villain (personally I like villains that make Superman have to use his brain AND brawn). I guess she's being used in Supergirl (again don't read it), but I don't see why the writer can't come up with their own villain that's as good as or better than Silver Banshee.

[Flash Gordon]

I've always had a soft spot for Silver Banshee, but she needs a definitive story.

Livewire needs to be beefed up as well, her alter ego can also prove to be a menace to the Man of Steel.

Maxima had the Batman-Catwoman thing, but you really can't consider Catwoman a villain anymore. She's helped Bruce out more than not.

[Darthfury78]

The reason Catwoman works for Batman is that she's also his love interest and always has been. Sexual tension and romance has always been a part of their relationship. Notice how Poison Ivy isn't on the same level. That's not really possible with Superman any longer.

Hi Death,
I agree that Batman x Catwoman relationship works as you describe it. What I want to see is a development of the relationship between Superman x Lashina, since the DCAU has experimented on it. When Superman: The Animated Series started, I didn't know who Lashina was until the 2-part Legacy story stated. I enjoyed their interaction together. Even though they are enemies, Lashina has hinted that Superman is the one person who she could imagine being with as both a rival and a love interest. While it's true that he is married to Lois, it's not to say that Lashina's interest in Kal-El has lessend anymore than Catwoman.

I certainly would have like to see the relationship between Lashina and Superman carried over to the mainstream DC Universe. The idea of a female villian becoming a potential love interest would be very good for Clark Kent. Marvel recently undid the marriage between Spiderman and Mary Jane. They could do the same for Superman and Lois if they wanted to. As far as I know, only Maxima and Lashina have expressed sexual tension towards the Man of Steel. It would be nice to see how that plays out.

http://secretsociety.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/12/07/lashina.gif
http://www.vegalleries.com/comiccon/dc/RCS2004.jpg
http://tvmedia.ign.com/tv/image/article/900/900547/Maxima_1219248673.jpg
http://sirenasasesinas.files.wordpress.com/2010/04/maxima_standing.jpg

[dupersuper]

Marvel recently undid the marriage between Spiderman and Mary Jane. They could do the same for Superman and Lois if they wanted to.

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

[Froggy]

Lashina is certainly one of the best female adversaries in the DC Universe. I certainly love her no holds bared additude. She remains me of Amora, the Enchantress who wants Thor all to herself.

In the DC Animated Universe, Lashina is attracted to Superman. In Legacy, they became lovers, despite the notion that Kal-El was brainwashed by Granny Goodness. It would seem that Lashina's curiousity with Kal-El had more than exceed her expectations.

I figured that of all of Superman's female enemies, Lashina would be proud to carry his child with love and devotion. My assumption became a reality when I learned that there was a completed script that showed that Lashina and Kal-El have a son who rules Apokolips.

I still feel that Lashina still has romantic feelings for Superman. If only we could see this relationship carry over to the mainstream DC Universe. Lashina is the one villian who I could see evolve into Superman's companion like Cyclops and Emma Frost. I certainly want to see Lashina and Superman in the same manner as Batman and Catwoman. Afterall, she was a member of the Suicide Squad as Duchess. Although, I want to see Lashina in the Superman comics more often.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/6535/1371665-furies_bab_01_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/7658/351650-147072-lashina_super.jpg
where'd you find this alternate script btw?

[Darthfury78]

I just threw up in my mouth a little...

It's true. Peter Parker and Mary Jane have no memories of ever being married. Thus, Peter Parker is single. Here are a few more pic on Maxima. I only wish there were some more pictures of Superman and Lashina together. :evilangry:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/681157-almerac_actioncomics650_super.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_UG28Stao5WU/TKBFd9fLzDI/AAAAAAAAAJc/NxljW6iim4I/s1600/maxima_action_comics_651.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29754/657264-maxima_4_super.jpg

where'd you find this alternate script btw?

Here is the link. Check under other media TV.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lashina

[AdamYJ]

Oh please, even Batman has his share of lame rogues. Mxy is a Loki-ish prankster, and Toyman is creepy, twisted version of a child's play thing, which actually fits in line with a Batman villain.

From there, you have Lex Luthor, Darkseid, Brainiac, Zod, etc. Superman's rogue gallery is better than given credit for.

Actually, the current Toyman is the old Winslow Schott one. He's more like a twisted toymaker. Like Gepetto gone crazy.

Still, Superman's Rogues are better than people give credit for. The problem is that people don't give them a chance because they figure Superman automatically trumps whatever villian you put in his way.

It also has several female villains that could be upgraded (Faora, Ursa, Blaze, Silver Banshee, Livewire, Volcana, Kryptonian ice goddess, Spider Lady, 1 of the Blackrocks, 2nd Puzzler...).

I'd like to see them do something interesting with the Puzzler. She was a joke when she first appeared. They should make her smarter and have her commit crimes based around puzzles and games and then use her power as her last minute trump card. No more attention-seeking smash-and-grab.

[daveageallen]

As a huge Byrne fan, I always loved the look of Banshee. Someone should raise her profile a bit...

http://scifimafia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/silver_banshee_comic.jpg

.. really? what do you like the most about her? the silver thong a ghost is wearing outside her clothes?

[Darthfury78]

Here is another picture of Lashina:

http://www.bicworks.com/graphics/art/vm-JLU-spec01.jpg
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2010/083/5/5/Lashina_Model_Sheet_by_Nes44Nes.jpg
http://www.tabletopfetus.com/rs-lashina.jpg
http://www.jaygeldhof.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/lashina22.jpg

[greatmetropolitan]

As much as I love the Phantom Zone villains, Ursa doesn't work for me as a definitive female villain as she's always subordinate to Zod. She works great as part of the trio, but just not on her own.

Maxima, before she was made into a good guy, was pretty close to the mark. Strong personality, physical match, clear motivations, possible love interest. Now that Supes and Lois are married though she wouldn't work as well.

For a great villainess I'd be tempted to make her the opposite of Clark Kent - he's a noble civil rights interested journalist, she could be a kind of anti-lois. Let's face it, a lois-esque woman who has it in for Superman could be pretty dangerous.

I have no idea what I'd do about the powers, though. Giving her passive, more intellect or influence based abilities feels sexist, and making her a physical powerhouse feels obvious in a "oooh, look, a STRONG woman" kind of way...

More thought required.

[Nate Grey]

As much as I love the Phantom Zone villains, Ursa doesn't work for me as a definitive female villain as she's always subordinate to Zod. She works great as part of the trio, but just not on her own.

Not just that, but powers identical to Superman = boring to me.

For a great villainess I'd be tempted to make her the opposite of Clark Kent - he's a noble civil rights interested journalist, she could be a kind of anti-lois. Let's face it, a lois-esque woman who has it in for Superman could be pretty dangerous.

This essentially sounds like Livewire.

[greatmetropolitan]

Not just that, but powers identical to Superman = boring to me.



This essentially sounds like Livewire.

Hot damn, I forgot about Livewire. She's an anti-superman shock jock, right? Hmm...maybe it's the shock jock aspect that kind of screams "you cant take me seriously." The powers aren't that striking either...

The Queen of Fables could have had potential. Scary-crazy powerful, definitely. There didnt seem to be much substance to her other than wicked-witch type material though, although that was part of the point I guess. If we looked at her as the Queen of stories and Superman as the King of stories we could do some very interesting stuff. Maybe give her more personality and we could have a winner.

[Mat001]

There was never a potential love interest factor between Superman and Maxima. The "Armageddon 2001" issue was only done that way because they had just done a scenario where Clark was married to Lana and they didn't want to tackle Diana and at the time, Lori wasn't a factor. Otherwise when you read the first stories featuring Maxima, there was no way in hell Clark had any interest in her. Unlike the relationship between Catwoman and Batman, where the potential was there as it was with Talia and Batwoman/Kathy Kane.

It's true. Peter Parker and Mary Jane have no memories of ever being married. Thus, Peter Parker is single.

Only because Joe Quesada had a bug up his ass about the marriage. No one at DC has that same itch. Besides, it was a bad idea when it was done for Spider-Man, thus there's no reason to copy that for Superman.

[Free-Man]

Hot damn, I forgot about Livewire. She's an anti-superman shock jock, right? Hmm...maybe it's the shock jock aspect that kind of screams "you cant take me seriously." The powers aren't that striking either...

True. I think they kind of fumbled the handling of Livewire when they brought her into the comics. She could have been interesting, but the rehash of her cartoon origin as well as the dumb kidnapping plot didn't do much for me.

I agree on Queen of Fables, but she seems more like a WW villain than a Superman one. I really think the only reason she got that (admittedly awesome) role in Action Comics is because Simone was writing it, and she tends to take her characters with her from book to book. But that aside, yeah, even going back to her initial JLA fight, she seemed more interested in taking out Wonder Woman.

I do like Maxima a lot though, even if she has a bad rep.

[greatmetropolitan]

True. I think they kind of fumbled the handling of Livewire when they brought her into the comics. She could have been interesting, but the rehash of her cartoon origin as well as the dumb kidnapping plot didn't do much for me.

I agree on Queen of Fables, but she seems more like a WW villain than a Superman one. I really think the only reason she got that (admittedly awesome) role in Action Comics is because Simone was writing it, and she tends to take her characters with her from book to book. But that aside, yeah, even going back to her initial JLA fight, she seemed more interested in taking out Wonder Woman.

I do like Maxima a lot though, even if she has a bad rep.

I totally agree actually, Queen of Fables is totally a better fit for Wonder Woman. The metaphorical stuff you could do about who is really the queen of moral stories could be amazing. God bless Gail Simone.

The more I refresh my memory of Maxima, the more I like her. Why the hell did they go and kill her? I see a Superboy Prime punch coming on...

[Nate Grey]

What about Amazing Grace? It was strongly implied she did the do with Superman when he had amnesia on Apokalips and she had convinced him he was Darkseid's son. Sexual tension is only good if its mutual, and in theory it could be here. Heck, I know the writers would never have the balls to do it, but what if Grace had a child by Superman because of those events?

[Darthfury78]

Does anyone else have any comments on Lashina? It was said that she is a longtime enemy of Superman. However, aside from Legacy, I haven't seen much personal interaction between her and Superman. It would be nice to see more of her in the Superman comics as she has the potention to stand on her own. like Big Barda.

[Nate Grey]

Does anyone else have any comments on Lashina? It was said that she is a longtime enemy of Superman. However, aside from Legacy, I haven't seen much personal interaction between her and Superman. It would be nice to see more of her in the Superman comics as she has the potention to stand on her own. like Big Barda.

You have tons of fanfic on Lashina and Superman, don't you?

[Darthfury78]

What about Amazing Grace? It was strongly implied she did the do with Superman when he had amnesia on Apokalips and she had convinced him he was Darkseid's son. Sexual tension is only good if its mutual, and in theory it could be here. Heck, I know the writers would never have the balls to do it, but what if Grace had a child by Superman because of those events?

Perhaps this was the reason why they used Lashina instead of Amazing Grace. While having a major famale villian for Superman would be good for the series, having a female villian whose hinted with wanting to become his lover would be interesting as well.

[Nate Grey]

Perhaps this was the reason why they used Lashina instead of Amazing Grace. While having a major famale villian for Superman would be good for the series, having a female villian whose hinted with wanting to become his lover would be interesting as well.

Or, the name connotations.

I get you're shipping hard for Lashina, but she has the same problem as Ursa: seen as part of a group rather than as an individual. Still, Ursa is being talked about more because she was created as a villain for Superman. Lashina was not, she was created by Kirby for the Fourth World mythos and has been used to that affect. Superman's writers may import her from time to time, but that doesn't mean much in the long run.

Besides, its all about Superman and Stompa! Bout time BBWs got some play. :cool:

[Mat001]

What about Amazing Grace? It was strongly implied she did the do with Superman when he had amnesia on Apokalips and she had convinced him he was Darkseid's son. Sexual tension is only good if its mutual, and in theory it could be here. Heck, I know the writers would never have the balls to do it, but what if Grace had a child by Superman because of those events?

Much of what happened in the "Legends" tie-ins were never refered to in subsequent stories. The focus was more on Superman trying to lead a resistence against Darkseid, than what Grace did to him. Same way the writers ignored the Sleeze two parter.

Does anyone else have any comments on Lashina? It was said that she is a longtime enemy of Superman. However, aside from Legacy, I haven't seen much personal interaction between her and Superman. It would be nice to see more of her in the Superman comics as she has the potention to stand on her own. like Big Barda.

Lashina was never a longtime enemy of Superman's in the comics. It was always Darkseid first and foremost. She, like the other Furies, were just cannon fodder for Superman's rage whenever he went up against Darkseid. In fact, out of Darkseid's minions the only ones he had the most interaction with was Kalibak, Dessad, Bruno Mannhiem, Mokkari and Simyan. Outside of the actual New Gods titles, the Furies were seldomly developed save for Knockout in Superboy and Secret Six and when Lashina was in Suicide Squad.

[Nate Grey]

Much of what happened in the "Legends" tie-ins were never refered to in subsequent stories. The focus was more on Superman trying to lead a resistence against Darkseid, than what Grace did to him. Same way the writers ignored the Sleeze two parter.

I don't know about you, but I don't want to live in a world where Superman never made a porno with Big Barda. *wipes tears*

[Darthfury78]

Lashina was never a longtime enemy of Superman's in the comics. It was always Darkseid first and foremost. She, like the other Furies, were just cannon fodder for Superman's rage whenever he went up against Darkseid. In fact, out of Darkseid's minions the only ones he had the most interaction with was Kalibak, Dessad, Bruno Mannhiem, Mokkari and Simyan. Outside of the actual New Gods titles, the Furies were seldomly developed save for Knockout in Superboy and Secret Six and when Lashina was in Suicide Squad.

Hi Mat001,
I agree that Lashina wasn't used much outside the Female Furies. However, in Superman: The Animated Series, her character was developed to the extent that she wanted him for herself and succeeded with that while he was brainwashed. If the script that was planned for Lashina's appearance in the 4th season of Batman Beyond was given the greenlight, it might have been an interesting episode since it continued from where Legacy left off. This might have been the first time that a female villian having a son with Superman. Sorta like the Golden Age Batman and Catwoman who had a daughter together named the Huntress. If that episode was a hit with the viewers, that might have given the DC editors a reason to use Lashina in the mainstream DC Comic universe towards Superman.

[Silvermoth]

.. really? what do you like the most about her? the silver thong a ghost is wearing outside her clothes?

You're right, it's not the thong. But I do love the general look of her and the fact that when we first met her, she practically killed Superman (almost but not really :biggrin: )

[OBrianTallent]

Whatever happened to the character Obsession?
One of the problems (in comics in general these days) is that characters have become the "property" of writers. So it's difficult for characters to develop true lasting villains these days because writers dont want to either step on the toes of another writer using "their" character or want to create their own characters (which in turn other writers wont use because...)

[Mat001]

Obsession doesn't fall into that catergory. What happened is that Loeb's team didn't want to use her and so they didn't. And everyone since then has chosen not to use her. The only characters that have resurfaced are those who were either far more popular or a writer has chosen to use them. Kurt Busiek and Geoff Johns chose to bring back many characters who had faded into the background, when they started their run. Bloodsport, Riot, Hellgramite, Prankster, the Jackal and the Puzzler to name a few. Since then, only Riot and Prankster have appeared regularly and that's only when Gates, Rucka, Robinson and Johns wanted to use them.

[dupersuper]

It's true. Peter Parker and Mary Jane have no memories of ever being married. Thus, Peter Parker is single.

Yes, we all know it's true. *shudder*

Whatever happened to the character Obsession?


I think Satanus had her last we saw; I don't know her fate since Satanus was defeated by Blaze.

[marshal99]

Whatever happened to La Encantadora ?

[Darthfury78]

A few more pictures of Maxima.

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/1165329-maxima_ej_v01_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9541/1316614-vortex_3_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/0/9541/1315737-vortex_1_super.jpg


What Maxima wants, she gets!!!!:evilsmile:

[Darthfury78]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/1010936-maxima_heat_vision_actioncomics645p02_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/893902-jla_66_maxima_teleportation_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/1269781-maxwell_lord_recruits_bloodwynd_maxima_super.jpg

I must admit that Superman and Maxima might have made an interesting couple. A good example of an enemy who could become Superman love interest and partner.

[dupersuper]

I must admit that Superman and Maxima might have made an interesting couple. A good example of an enemy who could become Superman love interest and partner.

I assume you've read Louise Simonsons 1991 Adventures of Superman annual...

[Nate Grey]

Whatever happened to La Encantadora ?

Comic limbo, but according to her wiki they door was left open for her to return as a hero instead of a villain.

[Professor Goldfish]

Male..female..Superman needs better villains in general

Indeedy.

I think he needs a female version of Norman Osborn and a Spider-Man (pre wangled up new version) style multi-issue mystery as to who the new costumed villain is.

Have the villain in sexless powered armour, preferably with a Mysterio type globe or something that can be smashed in an equally dramatic fashion.

So the readers are wondering which of the male supporting cast is the new costumed criminal at the same time that the out of costume female chemical company owner is wreaking havoc, spaced out over many issues in best decompressed dull as dishwater modern fashion, then have the reveal a long time later.

But in general, Superman's rogues gallery is pathetic, and it definitely doesn't help him as a character. Villains are essential to the monthly format particularly.

Superman villains need to either match him in strength, or be a lot more Halloween style. Early Thor villains would be good ones for the entropy factory that is modern DC to copy.

Even better would be a she-hulk type villain who is actually of his sort of strength. Make her a bright primary colour for the toy range too. Anything but green though- Kryptonitism is too rampant.


Also Ms. Metallo. And Brainicerella or some such. Sex sells. Especially to the 45 year olds, according to Mr. Cooke :)

[Darthfury78]

I assume you've read Louise Simonsons 1991 Adventures of Superman annual...

I haven't read that issue. Was it very good? I used to read Louise work on the New Mutants and X-Factor in the 1980's. She was a very good writer, along with her husband Walter.

[dupersuper]

I haven't read that issue. Was it very good? I used to read Louise work on the New Mutants and X-Factor in the 1980's. She was a very good writer, along with her husband Walter.

It was part of the Summer cross over that year that had "possible future" stories, and had Supes and Maxima hook up.

[Slaughter]

Like i said , Blaze should make a return. She's a supernatural being , powerful enough to hurt superman and rules her own corner of hell dimension.

http://www.rapsheet.co.uk/Images/Characters/Blaze.jpg

Ins't Blaze the current ruler of hell? That seems serious credentials for a Superman villain.

[Darthfury78]

It was part of the Summer cross over that year that had "possible future" stories, and had Supes and Maxima hook up.

I would have loved to have seen a talented writer make Kal-El and Maxima's relationship as interesting as Clark x Lois. Think of the possibilites of the development of Maxima's character towards Clark Kent/Kal-El? It would have been nice to see this side of their relationship become a reality because she would finally realized why he rejected her. Thus, Maxima would have tone down her dominate nature and become a tactical person towards Kal-El.

[gwangung]

Hm. If I were writing, I'd tweak Maxima just a bit, and in two ways.

A) In order to hold on to her rule, she has to produce an heir. And by the strongest possible mate. Hence, Superman.

B) Maxima is the head of a barbarian, conquest driven race. And she's an ENLIGHTENED ruler--without her, her race would devolve into mindless conquest and over-run worlds. She is, essentially, a good guy.

We have two competing drives for her, and there's no clear cut solution for Superman.

[Boonciaver]

Eh. she's not so hot. I never found that to be the most unbelievable aspect of the story.

Agreed! For a character who supposedly got her beauty from the very own Goddess of Beauty & Love herself, Aphrodite, she should be unquestionably, without a doubt, universally agreed on by virtually everyone (comic book readers & non-comic book readers alike) as THE hottest female comic book character of all time, and yet there are tons of women in comics who are much hotter than she is.

[Mat001]

Hm. If I were writing, I'd tweak Maxima just a bit, and in two ways.

A) In order to hold on to her rule, she has to produce an heir. And by the strongest possible mate. Hence, Superman.

B) Maxima is the head of a barbarian, conquest driven race. And she's an ENLIGHTENED ruler--without her, her race would devolve into mindless conquest and over-run worlds. She is, essentially, a good guy.

We have two competing drives for her, and there's no clear cut solution for Superman.

Sure there is. Tell her to find someone else.

[Darthfury78]

Another pic of Lashina. Does anyone believes that Lashina could be Superman's version of Catwoman? It would certainly be interesting to see Superman and Lashina's relationship move into the mainstream DC Universe from the DCAU. Since Superman has never really had a female villian who becomes a possible love interest, with a strong background, Lashina might be the one to develop some sexual tension towards him.

http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/138/l_4ea383f7a5d64db4ab3f3792fc1b54cf.jpg

[dreyga2000]

Hmmm... I don't really see the need...

I always saw Superman as Sci-fi charater who battles Sci-Fi threats... Mad Scientists, Monster, Robots, and Aliens.... Most of his rouges should been gender neutral abomonations....

[daveageallen]

Hmmm... I don't really see the need...

I always saw Superman as Sci-fi charater who battles Sci-Fi threats... Mad Scientists, Monster, Robots, and Aliens.... Most of his rouges should been gender neutral abomonations....

but they are never gender neutral. always male?

so why not do something new and create a female villain who is more than a criminal mastermind, love interest, monster, or maniac

[mathew101281]

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/1010936-maxima_heat_vision_actioncomics645p02_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/893902-jla_66_maxima_teleportation_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/3/33492/1269781-maxwell_lord_recruits_bloodwynd_maxima_super.jpg

I must admit that Superman and Maxima might have made an interesting couple. A good example of an enemy who could become Superman love interest and partner.

This is the problem with comics right now. Any female villain that gets any popularity automatically gets turned into a hero or antihero. Thus their aren't any good female villains.

[Munkiman]

I don't think Superman really needs a female villain - for the love interest part, there's no chance of a real love interest outside of Lois, Superman would never succumb to any sort of lustful temptation, that's not who he is at all - but really the idea of good Superman villains is that they're sort of twisted reflections of the ideal/power fantasy that Superman embodies, all of them basically trying to be him or be better than him in some way, and that doesn't really work with a female. I am interested to see what will become of that green clone/daughter of Lex's from the Superboy issues of Adventure Comics, though.

[mathew101281]

I don't think Superman really needs a female villain - for the love interest part, there's no chance of a real love interest outside of Lois, Superman would never succumb to any sort of lustful temptation, that's not who he is at all - but really the idea of good Superman villains is that they're sort of twisted reflections of the ideal/power fantasy that Superman embodies, all of them basically trying to be him or be better than him in some way, and that doesn't really work with a female. I am interested to see what will become of that green clone/daughter of Lex's from the Superboy issues of Adventure Comics, though.

Why wouldn't it work for a female?

[gwangung]

Sure there is. Tell her to find someone else.

Oh, the point is that this isn't HER choice. It's the choice of her people. She goes elsewhere, her hordes overruns Earth anyway.

[Darthfury78]

I don't think Superman really needs a female villain - for the love interest part, there's no chance of a real love interest outside of Lois, Superman would never succumb to any sort of lustful temptation, that's not who he is at all.

Lois and Clark is there to maintain Kal-El's humanity.:smile:

However, I have wanted to see Kal-El with other female characters who were villians, like Maxima and Lashina. I like the idea of Maxima becoming an assertive character who finally gets what she wants without forcing herself upon Superman. The same applies to Lashina, who was the only person to have had a successful relationship with Kal-El in any sort of medium thus far.

Batman is the only person who has had relationships with women who were either good or evil. It's time for Superman to experience some of that. That is what makes a story interesting.

Oh, the point is that this isn't HER choice. It's the choice of her people. She goes elsewhere, her hordes overruns Earth anyway.

I still believe that Maxima does have genuine feelings for Kal-El that are no longer selfish or superficial. But her forceful approach towards Kal-El was the one reason why he rejected her. If Maxima is still alive, I am willing to bet that she is on Earth learning about its customs. This way, she will finally understand Kal-El's character and his relationship towards his adopted planet. Then Maxima could resume her partnership with Kal-El and gradually earn his trust and admiration, like Wonder Woman. If Maxima wants to become a possible love interest of Kal-El, she should take a few hints from Diana and Big Barda.

[Mat001]

Oh, the point is that this isn't HER choice. It's the choice of her people. She goes elsewhere, her hordes overruns Earth anyway.

He's got the JLA, the JSA, the Teen Titans, the Outsiders, the Doom Patrol and the Metal Men. Along with 7200 GL's, a bunch of Star Sapphires, a few Blue Lanterns, maybe the Indigo Tribe and the Red Lanterns. Not to mention contacts on Saturn, Rann, Thanagar, the Atlantians, the Bizarros and even access to the Legion. They want to try and invade Earth, they'd better pack a lunch.

However, I have wanted to see Kal-El with other female characters who were villians, like Maxima and Lashina. I like the idea of Maxima becoming an assertive character who finally gets what she wants without forcing herself upon Superman. The same applies to Lashina, who was the only person to have had a successful relationship with Kal-El in any sort of medium thus far.

Only because Lashina was messing around with a brainwashed Superman. On his own, he had no use for her and no feelings whatsoever which is why he kicked her ass on his way to Darkseid. And there's no reason for him to sleep with Maxima, because he's never loved her and never desired her. There are only three women in his life that he's ever truly wanted. Lois, Lana and Lori.

Batman is the only person who has had relationships with women who were either good or evil. It's time for Superman to experience some of that. That is what makes a story interesting.

Batman's involvement with other women comes from the fact that he's never truly loved one woman. And those he's come close to loving, the relationships ended because of his being Batman. Silver St. Cloud couldn't handle that Bruce was not going to give up being Batman, nor that she could force him to. Nor did she like it when he was still in his asshat phase. Shondra Kinsolving was broken down mentally. Julie Madison had issues with her father that won out over her feelings for Bruce. Talia could never break away from her father for good. Vesper Fairchild was killed by David Cain to frame him. Jezebel Jet was a set up for him. Sasha Bourdeux (sp) joined Checkmate after he treated her as he did when he was framed for murder. And so far, while he's been exploring a relationship of sorts with Selena, it won't last forever.

When it comes to the women in Clark's life, he's not as damaged as Bruce. He's known who it is that he's cared for most and was always willing to settle down with that woman. And since he started at the Daily Planet, it's been Lois.

If Maxima is still alive, I am willing to bet that she is on Earth learning about its customs. This way, she will finally understand Kal-El's character and his relationship towards his adopted planet.

She was on Earth for a good long while after she was banished from Almerac and despitie that, she had no real desire to adapt. She tried, but it was only an empty gesture in the end. Hence she started going back to her old ways when the big guns decided to disband the three teams and put it back into one core group, with them in charge. She even said as much in Man Of Tomorrow #6.

[Darthfury78]

He's got the JLA, the JSA, the Teen Titans, the Outsiders, the Doom Patrol and the Metal Men. Along with 7200 GL's, a bunch of Star Sapphires, a few Blue Lanterns, maybe the Indigo Tribe and the Red Lanterns. Not to mention contacts on Saturn, Rann, Thanagar, the Atlantians, the Bizarros and even access to the Legion. They want to try and invade Earth, they'd better pack a lunch.



Only because Lashina was messing around with a brainwashed Superman. On his own, he had no use for her and no feelings whatsoever which is why he kicked her ass on his way to Darkseid. And there's no reason for him to sleep with Maxima, because he's never loved her and never desired her. There are only three women in his life that he's ever truly wanted. Lois, Lana and Lori.



Batman's involvement with other women comes from the fact that he's never truly loved one woman. And those he's come close to loving, the relationships ended because of his being Batman. Silver St. Cloud couldn't handle that Bruce was not going to give up being Batman, nor that she could force him to. Nor did she like it when he was still in his asshat phase. Shondra Kinsolving was broken down mentally. Julie Madison had issues with her father that won out over her feelings for Bruce. Talia could never break away from her father for good. Vesper Fairchild was killed by David Cain to frame him. Jezebel Jet was a set up for him. Sasha Bourdeux (sp) joined Checkmate after he treated her as he did when he was framed for murder. And so far, while he's been exploring a relationship of sorts with Selena, it won't last forever.

When it comes to the women in Clark's life, he's not as damaged as Bruce. He's known who it is that he's cared for most and was always willing to settle down with that woman. And since he started at the Daily Planet, it's been Lois.



She was on Earth for a good long while after she was banished from Almerac and despitie that, she had no real desire to adapt. She tried, but it was only an empty gesture in the end. Hence she started going back to her old ways when the big guns decided to disband the three teams and put it back into one core group, with them in charge. She even said as much in Man Of Tomorrow #6.

You are right that Lashina fell for a brainwashed Superman. However, what my point is that we should see Lashina and Maxima in the same manner as Catwoman and Talia. It's true that Superman has Lois as his one true love. I am not arguing against that. Despite that notion, it would be interesting to see Superman with other women in a similar manner as he has towards Wonder Woman, who is not his love interest either.

In addition, you mentioned that there were only three women in his life that he's ever truly wanted. Lois, Lana and Lori. Why don't the writers expand that list to a few more? It would make for an interesting story.

[dupersuper]

In addition, you mentioned that there were only three women in his life that he's ever truly wanted. Lois, Lana and Lori. Why don't the writers expand that list to a few more? It would make for an interesting story.

He wanted Wonder Woman briefly.

[metr0man]

I don't know if I would use the word "need", but having a real heavy hitter prominent ongoing female villain, who wasn't contrived, would at least be interesting and different.

I'd be interested in seeing that old trope... equal powered new superhero arrives, is much more brutal and hard hitting than Superman... ideological conflict, except because of her power, he can't just vanquish her.

[Mat001]

You are right that Lashina fell for a brainwashed Superman. However, what my point is that we should see Lashina and Maxima in the same manner as Catwoman and Talia. It's true that Superman has Lois as his one true love. I am not arguing against that. Despite that notion, it would be interesting to see Superman with other women in a similar manner as he has towards Wonder Woman, who is not his love interest either.

In addition, you mentioned that there were only three women in his life that he's ever truly wanted. Lois, Lana and Lori. Why don't the writers expand that list to a few more? It would make for an interesting story.

Why would it make it intereseting? Superman is not Batman and Batman is not Superman. Nor is Superman anything like Spider-Man. It won't make Superman anymore interesting and if someone does think that, then they're not as interested in Superman as they think they are.

Clark did date other women, but none of them had what he was looking for. They did Simone Denege (sp) in the 90's, but the point of the character was wasted since by that point Clark was married and she was nowhere near the type of woman that he is interested in. As opposed to when he was in his early 20's and figuring out his life. It was basically sex more than anything. There was Terri Chung who he was involved with during his travels, but she had a more important destiny as the next religious figure in China when her father, who is the current one, is killed. But overall, Post Crisis, none of these women were ever special enough or free enough for him. So that left Lori Lemaris and that story was told in 1996. There's Lana who has been abused by the writers over the years. Diana has been the only one that has gone back and forth, but in terms of villains, that ship sailed when Maxima was killed and no other writer has had an interest in copying that. And had Kurt Busiek been able to stay on, he was toying with the idea of bringing her back.

[Darthfury78]

Why would it make it intereseting? Superman is not Batman and Batman is not Superman. Nor is Superman anything like Spider-Man. It won't make Superman anymore interesting and if someone does think that, then they're not as interested in Superman as they think they are.

Clark did date other women, but none of them had what he was looking for. They did Simone Denege (sp) in the 90's, but the point of the character was wasted since by that point Clark was married and she was nowhere near the type of woman that he is interested in. As opposed to when he was in his early 20's and figuring out his life. It was basically sex more than anything. There was Terri Chung who he was involved with during his travels, but she had a more important destiny as the next religious figure in China when her father, who is the current one, is killed. But overall, Post Crisis, none of these women were ever special enough or free enough for him. So that left Lori Lemaris and that story was told in 1996. There's Lana who has been abused by the writers over the years. Diana has been the only one that has gone back and forth, but in terms of villains, that ship sailed when Maxima was killed and no other writer has had an interest in copying that. And had Kurt Busiek been able to stay on, he was toying with the idea of bringing her back.

This is why I plan to write a letter to the Editor about the idea of reviving Maxima, as well as the idea of including Lashina into the Superman comics. As with the DCAU, I want to see what ideas that the writers can come up with for Lashina's character towards Superman as more than just his enemy.

[superchick]

He wanted Wonder Woman briefly.

lusted after Saturn Girl too.

[Mat001]

As with the DCAU, I want to see what ideas that the writers can come up with for Lashina's character towards Superman as more than just his enemy.

Morrison's plans for Lashina won't include Superman whenever he gets around to revisiting the New Gods.

[Knightwing]

Why not bring together some of the themes that have been discussed here to make a really interesting story arc for a new villainess?

Have her as a new co-worker or detective who is in frequent contact with Superman or Clark Kent. Slowly, he finds himself having initially small but then increasing problems with Lois. Maybe LL is crowding him, or too bitchy, or he begins to worry that she really isn't interested in him as a person, and continues to put up with the Clark side of his personality because there's a Superman side. And he finds he can open up with the co-worker or detective or whatever, or that she really understands how intelligent Superman is, or how impressive Kent can be.

The important thing is that it is very gradual. Eventually he finds himself in situations where there is a possibility something will happen between them, but he doesn't succumb. In fact, he starts avoiding her because he's worried about what will happen. It will all be very realistic, just the kind of thing that might happen to a decent, committed, but unhappy and tempted husband.

It turns out in the end that she is, in fact, a sorceress who has enchanted him. He realizes that he has been taking things the wrong way at home as his first reaction instead of taking them in their best light. Perhaps the entire time he is intermittently battling what turn out to be the sorceress's minions, and only when he finally deduces who is controlling them does he discover that it is the person he's known all this time.

To make matters worse, and to build up potential for future use, she isn't haughty or cacklingly evil in the end. She seems to actually think he should be with her, that only she really understands him and can give him what he needs. And she leaves it up in the air whether she had enchanted him or he really felt what he thought he did.

[Mat001]

Why not bring together some of the themes that have been discussed here to make a really interesting story arc for a new villainess?

Have her as a new co-worker or detective who is in frequent contact with Superman or Clark Kent. Slowly, he finds himself having initially small but then increasing problems with Lois. Maybe LL is crowding him, or too bitchy, or he begins to worry that she really isn't interested in him as a person, and continues to put up with the Clark side of his personality because there's a Superman side. And he finds he can open up with the co-worker or detective or whatever, or that she really understands how intelligent Superman is, or how impressive Kent can be.

You really don't understand Superman's character. You haven't read the stories where he and Lois did have problems. Believe me, he's more than committed to her. The man spent a thousand years with Wonder Woman and he never once gave up on his feelings for Lois. You have to rewrite everything about Superman in order for this to happen.

[Darthfury78]

Superman and Maxima
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http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20101006095131/smallville/images/thumb/c/c1/Maxima4545.jpg/180px-Maxima4545.jpg

[MelDyer]

The femme fatale is Maxima, dude. Maxima. Has been, since before Zero Hour.

For Rao's sake, don't saddle another DC Comic (that AIN'T Wonder Woman) with some screeching, mincing, horny sorceress, like that purple-haired bore, Circe! The stench of this lameass, tired Excalibur-reject drove off so many loyal comic fans (like me), it appears that WW editors have quietly banned her use in the book, because she hasn't made an appearance, since Amazons Attack!

Circe is out-of-work for a reason, Superman fans. She SUCKS. Two years running, with-out Circe, have actually elevated the WW comic above toilet-paper status, again, and some of us (myself included) are now drifting back for the occasional peek.

Maxima is one of Superman's best villains ever, and she can match him blow for blow. :eek::wink: Keep witches and fairy-folk out of the mainstream in Superman.

And doesn't Silver Banshee have that magic thing covered? Something the matter with her, now?

[Sean Walsh]

.......no mention of Superwoman?

.......well besides some reference on pg. 3 or 4, which I think were made factiously - and BEFORE New Krypton introduced one/ruined Lucy Lane?

Maxima was the strongest choice. They could still, someday, bring her back? I mean, they brought back Sam Lane from OWAW.

[Mat001]

Sure, Maxima could come back. As I mentioned, there was early talk of doing so by Kurt Busiek, before his departure from the book. If someone down the line has a desire to bring her back, then he/she will. Just as easily, Gail Simone could come up with a story for her and put her in Secret Six or the Birds of Prey.

[4thHorseman]

WHAT! NO LOVE FOR RAMPAGE! FOR SHAME SUPERMAN BOARDS!



(yes, i am being sarcastic)

[dupersuper]

WHAT! NO LOVE FOR RAMPAGE! FOR SHAME SUPERMAN BOARDS!



(yes, i am being sarcastic)

I'd hardly call Rampage a villain.

[protege]

Batman's had interesting confrontations and interactions with Catwoman on a pretty much regular basis for well over half a century. Superman, though, hasn't ever faced a regularly recurring female threat. Which isn't too surprising; offhand, I can't think of a single really notable female Superman villain. I like Maxima and Faora, and Ursa from Superman II...but I don't think that they're tier-one villains. And so, I think that a memorable recurring female villain for Superman is long overdue.

My ideal major female villain for Superman is a sorceress, 'cause Superman's particularly vulnerable to magic, and besides, really, he's got more than enough technology-oriented enemies already. I've been lazily looking into the history of DC's female magic-users online from time to time today, trying to find a magic-using female villain with a simple origin, straightforward motiviations, and powers that aren't too silly and/or complex, but so far, other than Circe (who I prefer as a Wonder Woman villain), I've not found anybody I like too much. :/

Anyway - do you think that Superman needs a memorable female foe, and if so, what kind of villain would you like her to be?

How about a new baron(ess) Sunday?

[protege]

There's also The Queen Of Fables, and Ursa was recently introduced as a comic-book character. I'd like for Maxima to return, and The Silver Banshee has potential.

BTW, I forgot the female Parasite, too. I also remember La Encantadora.

I like the Queen of fables, but should she be a Superman villian, or a WW one?

[protege]

Whatever happened to Rampage?

[dupersuper]

Whatever happened to Rampage?

Last I remember seeing her was in Demattis' Adventures of Superman run, in which she, Thorn and Superman go up against Satanus.

[Retro315]

I suppose Livewire could get a massive power boost and become a bit more dangerous. She's pretty "C-List" right now, even with her animated popularity (It was never "Harley Quinn" levels, but it's solid enough that she's a fixture in his gallery.)

Queen Bee is a good option, I think. She's a JLA level enemy, but her M.O. and origin definitely seems closest to Superman's style of stories and enemies. Yeah, that veers pretty close to the Insect Queen ... but Zazzala is way cuter.

[dupersuper]

. Yeah, that veers pretty close to the Insect Queen ... but Zazzala is way cuter.

Don't say that too loud, you'll hurt Lanas feelings.

[Darthfury78]

Maxima is both a Villain and a Partner towards Superman. :evilsmile:

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/29754/629111-maxima_5.jpg
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