behind the scenes origin of Doomsday?

[Kid Kyoto]

Has anyone ever seen information on the creative process behind Doomsday? Did they have an origin plotted for him when he was introduced or did DC throw him out wtih plans to flesh him out later?

How about the Reign of the Supermen? Was that plotted at the same time as Death of Superman?

[umbc8]

The Death of Superman was supposed to be the wedding of Clark and Lois, but Warner Bros. started the Lois & Clark show, and wanted them to get married in the show and comics at the same time. So, the Death storyline came about, but they didn't have a lot of time, so Doomsday was introduced w/out an origin. The backstory for Doomsday was figured out later when they had more time, and is part of the reason for the Hunter/Prey mini-series.

As for the Reign story, I don't know. The "Complete History of Superman" book, the outline for the end of "Death" and all of "Funeral" is shown, but nothing about "Reign". Also, there were a few months between the end of "Funeral" and beginning of "Reign".

[Hush Little Batman]

Also, there were a few months between the end of "Funeral" and beginning of "Reign".

Yes, the extremely boring "World Without a Superman" arc. In theory that storyline should've been sensational - showing how everyone had to continue living with Superman gone, but in execution, it was dreadful.

[Super Buddies Forever]

I thought Funeral for a Friend was lovely. It was far meatier than the actual "Doomsday!" portion of the story, as it was an actual character study of how Lois, the Kents, Luthor, and the DCU at large were dealing with the death of Superman as opposed to mindless action.

As far as the original question goes, I can't imagine that they had already planned on having Doomsday be from Krypton when they first created the arc. Reign of the Supermen is another tricky question. I would almost be tempted to say that the specifics of that story were plotted along with Zero Hour (since it basically started the chain reaction that led there), but then supposedly Hal Jordan going mad was a last minute editorial decision for the GL book.

[Kid Kyoto]

I beleive that last one. I wish I could remember where but somewhere I did see the original proposal for Emerald Twilight, and Hal was as sane as could be, it involved a GL civil war. He was also pretty stable throughout the whole Reign story.

Going back to Doomsday if anyone can dig up an interview or anything about his genesis I'd like to see it.

[J. Robb]

I'm not sure if it was the writers' intention or not, but it's often been pointed out that Doomsday seemed to represent all the Death- and Blood-named characters who popped up in the late 80s and early 90s who had little personality and motivation beyond violence. Doomsday was like Image Comic's style over substance defeating (temporarily) Superman's old school heroics.

[Kid Kyoto]

But was he a parody of that or just another manifistation?

While Manchester Black and the Elite were clearly an Authority parody I always though DD was sincere and someone really, really thought this 3rd rate Hulk was a worthy addition.

[Sean Whitmore]

Doomsday was like Image Comic's style over substance defeating (temporarily) Superman's old school heroics.

If satire is what they had in mind, I'd think it was more to show that Superman's heroics succeeded in defeating Image. If you want to get all Donner about it, Superman died for our (comics fans) sins (embracing characters like Doomsday). :)


SEAN

[RAman]

Oops, double post!

[RAman]

If I remember correctly, wasn't there a story that the Superman writers, at a yearly meeting to plan stories for the year, jokingly said, "Let's kill him?" and someone said, "Let's do it?" After all, they used to always say that, and someone thought it was time to actually do it.

Could be an urban myth though. :)

[SuperSince92]

I am certain I read an interview with one of the creators (Jurgens perhaps?) that said it came out of the annual "Super Summit" the Superman writers had. Keep in mind this was when there was much more collaboration as the Triangle number system was in place.

One of the original ideas thrown out for the big story of the year was to trash Metropolis; really wreck it (this story, likely, was later fleshed out and became The Battle for/Fall of Metropolis storyline that ran through Action #700). Then someone suggested the "How about we kill him?" thing and the idea stuck.

I have no idea about Doomsday though. I guess they felt Superman lacked villians with a killer instinct like Batman has/had and wanted to create a guy who would have instant credibility via killing ol' Supes. Too bad the other creators completely butchered that credibility post-Hunter/Prey.

[karasu]

I must be the only guy who never saw Doomsday as the hulk. Superman spanked the hulk a couple of times already.

[Kid Kyoto]

I must be the only guy who never saw Doomsday as the hulk. Superman spanked the hulk a couple of times already.

Well he also has spikes and claws. He's like Hulk+Wolverine!

aVV350M3!

r0xxor!

[David Walton]

If I remember correctly, wasn't there a story that the Superman writers, at a yearly meeting to plan stories for the year, jokingly said, "Let's kill him?" and someone said, "Let's do it?" After all, they used to always say that, and someone thought it was time to actually do it.

Could be an urban myth though. :)

It seems like that's how every big idea gets started. Peter David once asked, "Why doesn't Magneto just rip the admantium out of Wolverine?" and you got a three year storyline. I always enjoy hearing about these impromptu ideas that sound crazy but they work.

[MPagar]

I recall reading that Superman's killer was supposed to be a pre-established villain, but the people on the project just decided to go for a newly created villain.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Has anyone ever seen information on the creative process behind Doomsday? Did they have an origin plotted for him when he was introduced or did DC throw him out wtih plans to flesh him out later?

How about the Reign of the Supermen? Was that plotted at the same time as Death of Superman?

Well, coincidentally, I'm reading the Superman: Doomsday Omnibus. In the introduction, Dan Jurgens states that when they came up with Doomsday, there was no origin created. It was shown afterwards, in Hunter/Prey.

[Spider-Man]

I've always believed that the writers at the time should have loosely adapted the original Death of Superman storyline. A lot of the story elements of that era would have fit into a new version of that old story. In the original tale, Luthor reforms and becomes a hero to humanity, partnering with Superman to bring about great changes in the world, among them, curing diseases. Eventually, Luthor shows his true colors, in this case green, and lures Superman to a kryptonite death.

In the 90s, Luthor existed as a clone of himself, pretending to be his own son. He could have used his already positive image as head of Luthorcorp to team up with Superman, and then killed Superman once he'd been lulled into a false sense of security. The wonderful Funeral for a Friend could have remained intact, and then when Superman returned, he could have fought a now battlesuit-clad Luthor in a fight that would've ended with Luthor banished to the Phantom Zone. They could have also merged the "Fall of Metropolis" storyline into the death of Superman storyline, destorying the city only to rebuild it later.

As much as I loved "The Death of Superman," I've always felt it wasn't a satisfying means to killing The Man of Steel. Luthor should've been the one to succeed in that, if only briefly.

Spidey

[NDHorse]

I recall reading that Superman's killer was supposed to be a pre-established villain, but the people on the project just decided to go for a newly created villain.

See, I had heard or read somewhere that they didn't want to use an established character like Luthor because it would seem weird that he would get it right on the 3,234th attempt to kill him.

Who knows.

[PatrickG]

My recollection was that they wanted Superman to face a superior physical force and didn't feel like anyone in the DCU could simply punch Superman to death and get away with it.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yeah, that was what Jurgens said, more or less.

[wulfstone]

About doomsday ive seen various posts saying that he is basically laced with kryptonite that was how he killed supes. I know dd was created on krypton but sayin he's made of kryptonite seems something of a retcon as during their first fight supes never mentions he's getting hurt/weaker due to kryptonite.
any thoughts?

[icctrombone]

I think that Doomsday is the greatest Dc creation in the last 20 years. I read a TPB of his appearances and he's a frightening antagonist.

[SKETCHSANCHEZ]

About doomsday ive seen various posts saying that he is basically laced with kryptonite that was how he killed supes. I know dd was created on krypton but sayin he's made of kryptonite seems something of a retcon as during their first fight supes never mentions he's getting hurt/weaker due to kryptonite.
any thoughts?

I think the "bleeding kryptonite" thing was apart of one of the failed Superman movie pitches that featured Doomsday.

[karasu]

phew, I'm glad they didn't go with that then.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

About doomsday ive seen various posts saying that he is basically laced with kryptonite that was how he killed supes. I know dd was created on krypton but sayin he's made of kryptonite seems something of a retcon as during their first fight supes never mentions he's getting hurt/weaker due to kryptonite.
any thoughts?

Negative. As Sketch said, I believe that was part of one of the Superman Lives proposals.

I think that Doomsday is the greatest Dc creation in the last 20 years. I read a TPB of his appearances and he's a frightening antagonist.

Yeah, he was a frightening antagonist. Mainly because he was a mindless beast hellbent on destroying everything in his path.

However, I want to see how DC uses him, now that he's sentient.

phew, I'm glad they didn't go with that then.

Yeah, I hear you. Did you read any of the scripts? All of them were CRAP. The Kevin Smith one had an air of humor, but it didn't fit. It came out as a pathetic attempt at adapting the Death/Return Of Superman saga.

[MPagar]

Robotic, savage polar bears guarding Superman's home. That one takes the cake.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Yeah, and the giant spider. How pathetic is that?

Oh, and the icing on that cake: Lexiac!

[MPagar]

Superman Returns may not have been great for everyone, but seeing most of the junk that came before it, I was glad that we had something far less ridiculous. That Kryptonian Lex idea from the other script made me laugh and lose faith at comic movies at the same time.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Agreed. JJ Abrams script was nothing short of HERETIC and BLASPHEMOUS.

And I loved every second of Superman Returns. Watched it four times at the cinema. :D

[MPagar]

I didn't enjoy it so much. Though I am grateful that the Superman movie franchise is back again, and I'm eager to see how they handle a sequel.

[shaxper]

If I recall correctly, soon after the Doomsday storyline got rolling, Wizard Magazine (no, I can't believe I'm actually mentioning them either) either came up with or popularized a theory that, several years earlier, at the end of some Superman story, Brainiac launched a metal pod toward the Earth and made some insinuation that it would wreck havoc. Since that plot had never been picked up again, the theory was that Brainiac had launched Doomsday to the Earth, and it had simply taken him that long to break free of his restraints.

Does anyone else remember this theory? It seemed like a wild idea, but I wonder if anyone ever officially denied it. My guess back then was that the writers had never considered this idea, but would probably end up retroactively applying it to Doomsday since it made more sense than anything they'd come up with.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I didn't enjoy it so much. Though I am grateful that the Superman movie franchise is back again, and I'm eager to see how they handle a sequel.

It can only get better from here, my friend. Although I can't understand why there was people disappointed with the movie (I mean, I know why, but still...), I completely respect their opinions. I can only encourage you to look forward to the sequel.

[MPagar]

If I recall correctly, soon after the Doomsday storyline got rolling, Wizard Magazine (no, I can't believe I'm actually mentioning them either) either came up with or popularized a theory that, several years earlier, at the end of some Superman story, Brainiac launched a metal pod toward the Earth and made some insinuation that it would wreck havoc. Since that plot had never been picked up again, the theory was that Brainiac had launched Doomsday to the Earth, and it had simply taken him that long to break free of his restraints.

Does anyone else remember this theory? It seemed like a wild idea, but I wonder if anyone ever officially denied it. My guess back then was that the writers had never considered this idea, but would probably end up retroactively applying it to Doomsday since it made more sense than anything they'd come up with.
I remember it. It was a Doomsday Device, but not really Doomsday himself. Brainiac's device let out "The Swarm"(Oh, if only Wizard read the NEXT issue. :P).


It can only get better from here, my friend. Although I can't understand why there was people disappointed with the movie (I mean, I know why, but still...), I completely respect their opinions. I can only encourage you to look forward to the sequel.

I felt 'blah' about X-Men, but thought that the sequel was great. If the margin of improvement is anything like that, then I'll be a happy comic fan.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I see. Look up to the skies, my friend. Superman will soar them again in 2009.

[Kid Kyoto]

Well, coincidentally, I'm reading the Superman: Doomsday Omnibus. In the introduction, Dan Jurgens states that when they came up with Doomsday, there was no origin created. It was shown afterwards, in Hunter/Prey.

WOuld you be able to post the quote? I think it would a good addition to Doomsday's wikipedia entry.

[Kid Kyoto]

Yeah, I hear you. Did you read any of the scripts? All of them were CRAP. The Kevin Smith one had an air of humor, but it didn't fit. It came out as a pathetic attempt at adapting the Death/Return Of Superman saga.

Where are they available? I've heard the famous story Smith tells about the restrictions he was under, 1-he can't fly because that's BS, 2-he doesn't wear that pink suit, 3-he has to fight a giant robot spider in the 3rd act. I'd love to see how he did with that.

BTW, in the last bit of Birthright doesn't Superman fight a giant spider? Was that a deliberate homage/parody?

[MPagar]

The scripts might be harder to find now, but I've Googled it before and managed to find one. Try www.script-o-rama.com and see if they have it.

I've often wndered about the spider thing in Birthright myself.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

WOuld you be able to post the quote? I think it would a good addition to Doomsday's wikipedia entry.

Sure thing. I'm at the job right now, but I can post it later, when I get home.

Where are they available? I've heard the famous story Smith tells about the restrictions he was under, 1-he can't fly because that's BS, 2-he doesn't wear that pink suit, 3-he has to fight a giant robot spider in the 3rd act. I'd love to see how he did with that.

Thankfully, MPagar answered you, because honestly, I read them a long, long, long time ago, in a ga.. Oh wait, wrong movie. You get the idea, though.

BTW, in the last bit of Birthright doesn't Superman fight a giant spider? Was that a deliberate homage/parody?

Hadn't thought about it. But I bet the fight in Birthright was better than whatever Smith and Peters were thinking at the time.