RIP: The Duke rape case - all rape charges dropped...

[Sean Walsh]

It seems to be hitting the wires now (watching FOX News here at work) and apparently the rape charges against the 3 Duke lacrosse players are all being dropped.

The victim has now said she cannot "testify with certainty" (phrase being used by the AP reports and even the DA's office) that she was even raped at all.

And as I'm hearing a reporter talk as I type this, it seems last week the DA had DNA evidence that basically proved their innocence that was NOT entered into official evidence.

Kidnapping and sexual assault charges are being held intact, but I doubt those will stand for much longer. This whole case is apparently dying a quick death just days before Christmas.....

[SUPERECWFAN1]

This case was doomed once reports started that the wealthy families were gonna fight this hard. I suspect that there was more here than we'll ever know. But what can we do....I sorta knew the outcome when this whole thing started. :(

[Rob on the Job]

About damn time.

It's a travesty that it took this long for Nifong to acknowledge his error.

[Stellar]

Class Justice? It's still around? Sad, really.

[Rob on the Job]

What evidence was there -- other than that of the alleged victim -- that indicated these guys committed a crime?

[Josh S]

The rich must be guilty.

[Sean Walsh]

What evidence was there -- other than that of the alleged victim -- that indicated these guys committed a crime?

They're not talking about that as much as they were a little while ago before the top of the hour, but there was still no DNA evidence that actually linked them to it.

Still looking to find out this bit about the DNA evidence that Nifong was holding back that (basically) proved their innocence......which, if true, is quite disturbing.

[ragnarok_2012]

It seems to be hitting the wires now (watching FOX News here at work) and apparently the rape charges against the 3 Duke lacrosse players are all being dropped.

The victim has now said she cannot "testify with certainty" (phrase being used by the AP reports and even the DA's office) that she was even raped at all.

And as I'm hearing a reporter talk as I type this, it seems last week the DA had DNA evidence that basically proved their innocence that was NOT entered into official evidence.

Kidnapping and sexual assault charges are being held intact, but I doubt those will stand for much longer. This whole case is apparently dying a quick death just days before Christmas.....

If what I've read over at lewrockwell.com (http://www.lewrockwell.com/anderson/anderson140.html) is factual, then the DA should be disbarred for his shenanigans.

I'm skeptical whenever a woman claims she was gang raped by men not using condoms, and then changes her story to include condoms after the DNA tests come back negative.

The tests, iirc, found semen from one guy she'd had sex with earlier that day (not somebody on the team or at the party).

[Rob on the Job]

... Still looking to find out this bit about the DNA evidence that Nifong was holding back that (basically) proved their innocence......which, if true, is quite disturbing.

Or even CRIMINAL, Sean.

[Sean Walsh]

I'm thinking part of the reason why these charges were dropped may be because the kid will come out looking like Kif from FUTURAMA.

And say what you want about wealthy vs. not, or black vs. white.........that'd kill the case pretty quick and make everybody's jaws hit the floor, I'd say.

[Sean Walsh]

Or even CRIMINAL, Sean.

Oh, absolutely. I haven't quite gotten to the outrage part yet; I'm still stupified by what I'm hearing about this case that made it drag on this long....

[darkkeeperjr]

Damn her for crying rape against those boys! Because of her,I pity the next black girl that cry rape against a group of white boys.

[Yoda]

The DA also encouraged the police to violate their own procedures by including only lacrosse players in the lineup this woman was shown. A line up in which she apparently picked several differant people out, never the same three twice.

This case was a joke and should have never been prosecuted. The DA should be removed.

[Sean Walsh]

Damn her for crying rape against those boys! Because of her,I pity the next black girl that cry rape against a group of white boys.

Well, if the DA's actions and arguments are as BLEEPed up and possibly corrupt as this one was, and the accuser keeps changing facts every time she tells the story, and no DNA evidence linking the accused exists at all during the time of the case.....don't pity them.

If the DA and accuser and DNA evidence point to rape, then you can.

[Valmore]

This case was doomed once reports started that the wealthy families were gonna fight this hard. I suspect that there was more here than we'll ever know. But what can we do....I sorta knew the outcome when this whole thing started. :(

Yeah, the outcome of a stripper who couldn't get her own testimony statements correct and had no evidence of sexual trauma or DNA from a single Duke lacrosse player is just an indication of how rich, white kids are always guilty.

This was cut and dry right from the start - she was lying because she saw a chance to try and bilk some rich families out of their cash. Too bad there wasn't a shred of evidence to actually even back up the indictments.

[ragnarok_2012]

Yeah, the outcome of a stripper who couldn't get her own testimony statements correct and had no evidence of sexual trauma or DNA from a single Duke lacrosse player is just an indication of how rich, white kids are always guilty.

This was cut and dry right from the start - she was lying because she saw a chance to try and bilk some rich families out of their cash. Too bad there wasn't a shred of evidence to actually even back up the indictments.

Agreed, Val.

What's also quite sad is that this charge will likely follow these guys for the rest of their lives.

[Rob on the Job]

Well, if the DA's actions and arguments are as BLEEPed up and possibly corrupt as this one was, and the accuser keeps changing facts every time she tells the story, and no DNA evidence linking the accused exists at all during the time of the case.....don't pity them.

If the DA and accuser and DNA evidence point to rape, then you can.

Well-put, Sean.

Nifong may have done more harm to racial justice than any other individual in recent memory.

[Valmore]

Agreed, Val.

What's also quite sad is that this charge will likely follow these guys for the rest of their lives.

Not just that, but now every time a female cries rape, people will start to doubt her just that much more. Especially if the "rapist" is rich. This hurts potential REAL rape cases.

[Mike Smith]

So the only remaining charges are kidnapping and sex assault, yeah?

[ragnarok_2012]

Well-put, Sean.

Nifong may have done more harm to racial justice than any other individual in recent memory.

I don't think I agree with that, Rob.

That DA should, IMO, be disbarred for his actions. I just think there are worse, for lack of a better word, race crimes that have been committed in recent memory (I'm mostly thinking of the thousands of black voters illegally disenfranchised in the 2000 Election).

[ragnarok_2012]

Not just that, but now every time a female cries rape, people will start to doubt her just that much more. Especially if the "rapist" is rich. This hurts potential REAL rape cases.

This is also true.

[Rob on the Job]

I don't think I agree with that, Rob.

That DA should, IMO, be disbarred for his actions. I just think there are worse, for lack of a better word, race crimes that have been committed in recent memory (I'm mostly thinking of the thousands of black voters illegally disenfranchised in the 2000 Election).

Perhaps I should rephrase what I meant, Ragnarok.

How's this: Nifong has singlehandidly made it more difficult for true minority victims of true white criminals to obtain justice.

[ragnarok_2012]

Perhaps I should rephrase what I meant, Ragnarok.

How's this: Nifong has singlehandidly made it more difficult for true minority victims of true white criminals to obtain justice.

I can get on board with that.

I apologize for nitpicking.

[Sean Walsh]

So the only remaining charges are kidnapping and sex assault, yeah?

With everything that's been explained so far - and about how the accuser will not be testifying at all - I can't really understand why those charges are still standing.

[Mike Smith]

With everything that's been explained so far - and about how the accuser will not be testifying at all - I can't really understand why those charges are still standing.

Barring the genetic material found from other unknown males on the woman in this case, I don't really see how there can be any other charges. Is there even any other testimony, outside of her own, that can back her story up at this point?

[Sean Walsh]

Barring the genetic material found from other unknown males on the woman in this case, I don't really see how there can be any other charges. Is there even any other testimony, outside of her own, that can back her story up at this point?

I seem to recall there may've been at one point, but that person who was "on her side" of the argument backed out a couple months ago for one reason or another (probably not because of something honest, which seems to be a concept rather lacking in this whole affair)

[Lone Ranger]

If the evidence was really this weak, I am glad the charges are being dropped.

Still, from what I've read - the parents don't have much cause to be proud of their boys.

Do they sell "My Son is a 'All Rape Charges Dropped' Student at Duke University" bumper stickers?

[Valmore]

If the evidence was really this weak, I am glad the charges are being dropped.

Still, from what I've read - the parents don't have much cause to be proud of their boys.

Do they sell "My Son is a 'All Rape Charges Dropped' Student at Duke University" bumper stickers?

Except the problem with that lies in the fact that there was no evidence to even suggest the boys even did anything remotely illegal. Immoral, maybe - hiring strippers and hooting and hollering at them. But there was no evidence of rape or even anything physically sexual.

The prosecution, in their zeal to make a case out of nothing at all, dragged the Duke boys through the mud. This after there's no physical evidence, and that the "victim" was seen pole-dancing 3 days later, amongst her other normal activities. And she can't even get her own statements correct.

[Serik]

The way the prosecution and media handled this case is disgusting to say the least. The New York Times was especially zealous in their coverage.

And according to the Wikipedia entry on the issue, US Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez might open an investigation into how Durham District Attorney Mike Nifong handled the case...

[Iangould]

The rich must be guilty.

No, no - the rich, especually the white rich must be innocent.

The black, especially the poor black, must be guilty.

Whenever a case comes along that supports this proposition -like OJ Simpson - it must be seized upon endlessly by whites as proof of the special privileged place of those no-good blacks in American society.

[Xothermic]

No, no - the rich, especually the white rich must be innocent.

The black, especially the poor black, must be guilty.

Whenever a case that supports this proposition -like OJ Simpson - it must be seized upon endlessly by whites as proof of the special privileged place of those no-good blacks in American society.

yeah, the white guys get a 60 minute special to give their side of the story. NO black athlete would've recieved that type of treatment.

[rick]

This after there's no physical evidence, and that the "victim" was seen pole-dancing 3 days later, amongst her other normal activities.

I don't want to argue the case one way or the other since I don't really know much about it, but I do want to point out, having worked in a few strip clubs in my time, that there is nothing at all unusual about a stripper going back to work after being raped.

Strippers getting raped happens all the time, and then those same strippers needing to go back to work so that they can make the rent or feed the kids, just a few days later happens all the time too.

So that tidbit is not really evidence of anything at all.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

I really have not followed up on the Duke rape case . All I knew was she was a stripper and she had filed the charges against some players who had wealthy parents. I thought it was gonna be a hard case anyhow. I really didn't follow it as I did the Robert Blake case.

Of course had I knew the DA would violate the kids rights when I turned it on Court TV I'd be shocked. How do you got months without even speaking to the victim ? And when ya finally do she doesn't think it was a rape ?

Before I fell asleep the Court TV people were claiming an ethics commitee should look into the DA and his actions. That his law license should be stripped.

[Lone Ranger]

Immoral, maybe - hiring strippers and hooting and hollering at them.

That's all I am saying.

I get the sense that these guys treat women like meat.

They certainly don't deserve to stand accused of rape if it didn't happen, but I don't exacly feel like toasting the fact that the charges are being dropped.

From what I understand, the Duke Lacrosse team has a long history of shameful behaviour.

[Nikita]

That's all I am saying.

I get the sense that these guys treat women like meat.

They certainly don't deserve to stand accused of rape if it didn't happen, but I don't exacly feel like toasting the fact that the charges are being dropped.

From what I understand, the Duke Lacrosse team has a long history of shameful behaviour.



Ditto. A lot of atheletes treat women like meat. I'm not thrilled that these charges are being dropped either. I do wonder however, if they did other things to her, if not rape. I guess we'll never really know. Unless she is lying about everything...which also sucks.

What makes me nuts is if she was not actually raped, then it makes it all the more harder for other women to come forward who have been because they won't be believed. Women are raped by atheletes all the time, but since atheletes tend to be treated like Gods, many women never come forward because it's too intimidating for them. Strippers and prostitutes get raped all the time, but cases like this (if she is lying that is) make people not take them seriously either when it really happens.

Ugh, I hate cases like this. They make me cringe. We will never really know what truely happened between these boys and that woman that night. We'll only know part of the story.

[Kid Omega]

No, no - the rich, especually the white rich must be innocent.

The black, especially the poor black, must be guilty.

Whenever a case comes along that supports this proposition -like OJ Simpson - it must be seized upon endlessly by whites as proof of the special privileged place of those no-good blacks in American society.

Jesus Ian.

Do you really think the majority of white Americans feel this way?

I hope not. That's some closed-minded nonsense. Not to mention insulting.

[Kid Omega]

Court of Law. Due Process.


or


Court of Public Opinion. Reactionary Assumptions.


I'll take door number one, Monty.

[Iangould]

Jesus Ian.

Do you really think the majority of white Americans feel this way?

I hope not. That's some closed-minded nonsense. Not to mention insulting.

I have no idea what proportion of American whites think that way (and it's by no means limited to Americans), I do know that its enough that the OJ case, for example, gets resurrected endlessly.

Somehow the Robert Blake case doesn't seem to attract the same degree of attention.

[Kevin Vetter]

Blake doesn't get more attention because he isn't out drawing attention to himself and trying to make money off of the murder every other week like oj is.

[Naldo]

Maybe Australians aren't up on their American celebrities but Robert Blake at the time of his trial didn't have anywhere near the level of celebrity that OJ had. I don't think he ever had that level.

But hey, why let an opportunity to bash Americans slip by?

[Iangould]

But hey, why let an opportunity to bash Americans slip by?


Yes that'd be like letting a chance to scream about how Americans are constantly being victimised slip past.

[Naldo]

Yes that'd be like letting a chance to scream about how Americans are constantly being victimised slip past.

Careful Ian, it would be really ironic for a guy so involved in comics to make a caricature of himself. :)

In fact I was considering editing out that line you quoted after re-reading it and considering it to be a bit snarky. But on second thought, Kid Omega was right.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

.

Somehow the Robert Blake case doesn't seem to attract the same degree of attention.

Blake was a C-Level star at the time and had been outta the limelight for years. Also the fact is he's shied away from the spotlight and unlike OJ the cops really when ya look at what they had...was nothing except Blake's former bodyguards and stunt men sayin Blake tried to pay em to kill Bakely.

You had a weird man like Blake who let his wife live in another house on the property and himgoing to others to commish a murder. The police should have looked at some of these guys better. Their stories cracked once they took the stand. There was no physical evidence even though they searched Blake's house and his gun he had went back for.

[Valmore]

I don't want to argue the case one way or the other since I don't really know much about it, but I do want to point out, having worked in a few strip clubs in my time, that there is nothing at all unusual about a stripper going back to work after being raped.

Strippers getting raped happens all the time, and then those same strippers needing to go back to work so that they can make the rent or feed the kids, just a few days later happens all the time too.

So that tidbit is not really evidence of anything at all.

And many women who are traumatized by rape also never go about their own normal business for days on end, and yet there were accounts that she was out shopping the very same morning of the alleged incident. Coupled with her not getting her story straight and the many miscues by the prosecution, the lack of physical evidence to show she was raped - bruising, semen, etc. and there wasn't anything to move forward with on rape charges.

That's all I am saying.

I get the sense that these guys treat women like meat.

They certainly don't deserve to stand accused of rape if it didn't happen, but I don't exacly feel like toasting the fact that the charges are being dropped.

From what I understand, the Duke Lacrosse team has a long history of shameful behaviour.

Well, we do know they treat strippers like meat. As for other women, it's entirely possible they do, but we don't know, per say. Lots of men hire strippers for various reasons (bachelor parties, for one) and still treat women well in general. Heck, there are groups of women that hire male strippers. The old saying of sex sells exists for a reason.

[rick]

And many women who are traumatized by rape also never go about their own normal business for days on end, and yet there were accounts that she was out shopping the very same morning of the alleged incident. Coupled with her not getting her story straight and the many miscues by the prosecution, the lack of physical evidence to show she was raped - bruising, semen, etc. and there wasn't anything to move forward with on rape charges.



Well like I said, I'm not arguing about this case and haven't really followed it.

I was just pointing out that the work reference means nothing, thats all.

[Valmore]

Well like I said, I'm not arguing about this case and haven't really followed it.

I was just pointing out that the work reference means nothing, thats all.

It might and it might not. Tough to say. Sure, it's not unheard of for rape victims to go about their business; it's also not unheard of for rape victims to completely shut down. Legally speaking, who's to say? That would have to have been figured out in the courts on a basis of this case.

[PatrickG]

I have no idea what proportion of American whites think that way (and it's by no means limited to Americans), I do know that its enough that the OJ case, for example, gets resurrected endlessly.

Somehow the Robert Blake case doesn't seem to attract the same degree of attention.

It SHOULD.

But I say I wouldn't turn my back on either of those men if I was on their bad side, not guilty or otherwise.

And I see OJ as a standard of how rich people can cheat the system. Not sure what poor black people have to do with OJ.

Except for this:

I think black people tend to think that if the cops are corrupt and planting evidence, the case should be thrown out rather than see a repeat of Jim Crow era wrangling -- particularly with a largely white police force and a black defendant.

"They tried to railroad him; let him go and send a message back from the community!"

I think white people tend to think that if the cops are corrupt and planting evidence, the defendant might still be guilty, that it's a given that people in power abuse that power and that corrupt cops tampering with the facts is no reason to acquit someone, regardless of race, if enough of the charge stands up as being something other than the result of tampering.

"Yeah. There are some lousy cops out there. But the DNA evidence stands up. Fry him and go after the cops when you're done."

[rick]

Blake was a C-Level star at the time and had been outta the limelight for years. Also the fact is he's shied away from the spotlight and unlike OJ the cops really when ya look at what they had...was nothing except Blake's former bodyguards and stunt men sayin Blake tried to pay em to kill Bakely.

You had a weird man like Blake who let his wife live in another house on the property and himgoing to others to commish a murder. The police should have looked at some of these guys better. Their stories cracked once they took the stand. There was no physical evidence even though they searched Blake's house and his gun he had went back for.


Plus in the Blake case, unlike OJ there were in fact several people other then Blake, with very real motives to kill Blakes wife.

So that also helped with the reasonable doubt.