Looking towards Action Comics Annual 10

[RAman]

I don't know if there's a thread about Action Comics Annual no. 10, but I wanted to know what your thoughts were based on the cover.

http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=6607

If this cover is truly a representation of Supes' future, then I guess we'll have to look forward to different forms of kryptonite again, among other things. I'm interested to see what all of these storylines will mean for the Man of Steel.

[J. Robb]

I like the retro cover. Looks like it will be re-writing old Superman stories for the latest version.

Again.

[Jack Zodiac]

Blue Sun? Bizarro? Nifty.

This book looks great. The cover alone is amazing. The text is exactly how it used to be back in the Seventies, with the big, bold, eye-catching font. "Who is Clark Kent's Big Brother?"

Can't wait to read it.

[davids]

Us Humans!

[dupersuper]

We've already had multicoloured kryptonite ever since the latest Supergirl landed

[Person Man]

I thought the blue sun gave Superman some kind of reduced powers in the silver age?

[Jack Zodiac]

I honestly don't recall any blue sun adventures from the Silver Age. And that is Bizarro in that panel, right? Was Bizarro's cube planet near a blue sun?

[karasu]

Yayyyyyy they're rehashing more stories that they read when they were 6! This proves that the Superman books are at the forefront of creativity!! Go remakes Go.

I hope I'm alive when Superman hits the public domain.

[Jack Zodiac]

Yay, they're rehashing stories that sold when Superman was popular and comics weren't inaccessible to new readers.

[J. Robb]

Yay, they're rehashing stories that sold when Superman was popular and comics weren't inaccessible to new readers.
I'd say a big reason those stories were popular was because they introduced new ideas and concepts all the time. Like Mort Weisinger said, "I would bring out a new element every six months to keep the enraptured kids who were our audience involved."

Now we get old stories re-written or old characters re-introduced every six months.

[Jack Zodiac]

They were new to the people reading them then. Not a whole lot of he same people who were reading Superman thirty years ago are still reading it today. And at this point, rehashing old, fun ideas beats the hell out of some of the new, crappy ideas we've seen in the past decade. I'll take retro over crap any day.

[karasu]

Yay, they're rehashing stories that sold when Superman was popular and comics weren't inaccessible to new readers.

The problem with comics being 'accessible to new readers' - in this form - is that it shits on the rest of us who have been reading for years. Superman was popular back then because it was an ignorant time (censorship) and the stories were written for nine year olds(more censorship) who got off on Superman having a new power every other month. That crap doesn't hold up today. There comes a time when you have to grow up and put aside your lamentations for the days of old. Instead of moving forward, the books are perpetually moving backwards. The thought of cheering that makes me sick. If you think a rainbow of kryptonite or yet another story about a clone of superman/an evil superman/a kryptonian/a kryptonian like species or any other relic from the silver age is going to 'save' Superman, you're deluded.

Twenty years from now I bet these blasted books will be retelling the electropowered Superman stories. "Superman Red and Blue...yet again!!" :rolleyes:

[Jack Zodiac]

I'm deluded, then. But at least I'm reading a Superman I'll enjoy. Even if I have to read it again in twenty years.

[J. Robb]

I'd say the last real expanding of the Superman "mythos" was the Death/Return story, which introduced Doomsday, the clone Superboy, Steel, the Cyborg, etc. That was also the last time the Superman books were big sellers. Most of the past decade has been nostalgia-obsessed with lousy sales.

If I were a DC editor, that's something I would think about.

[Jack Zodiac]

It's been at least half and half. For every new Supergirl and modern version of something like, say, Superman-Red and Superman-Blue, there's been a President Luthor and a Darkseid willing to help out the Earth. And the "Death" story was a huge seller because of its obvious novelty. The resulting "Funeral" and "Reign" stories sold because of their believed collectibility. There's been plenty of new, fresh crap in the Superman books, but they've slowly declined in sales.

I'd blame that more on not putting any worthwhile talent on the books.

[karasu]

The "no big names on the Superman books" thing hurt a lot too. It was essentially suicide.

[Sean Whitmore]

The problem with comics being 'accessible to new readers' - in this form - is that it shits on the rest of us who have been reading for years.

No offense, but...so what?

I mean, honestly, what should companies be more concerned with? Bringing in new readers or just keeping you till the day you die?

Not to mention there are plenty of us who have been reading for years who don't take it as an insult that DC wants to adapt a story they last told twenty years before we were born.


SEAN

[chriskenny]

I don't understand what the big deal is to re-introduce old concepts from the past in a new way. Look at what re-introducing the Superboy concept did--it creat a new, unique character with a totally different background than Clark, but the idea of teen version of Superboy was the only part of the idea that remained from its previous incarnation. The fact remains is that we have no fricking clue how the concepts will be packaged.

And to be honest, I am enjoying the Superman books now. And I think the stories have more of a sense of adventure and fun, and I don't think that has all to do with the return of Zod or anything like that. But it helps. Should we discount concepts like differently colored Kryptonite or Kryptonian villains from the Phantom Zone SIMPLY because the concepts pre-date Crisis? It is ludicrous and simplistic. The fact is that ALL of the fantastic conciets of Superman predate Crisis and just as characters like Jimmy Olsen and Perry White can be re-introduced with out lame arguments that people are living in the past, there is no reason why you can't reintroduce other concepts. The mythos has a wide breadth and all ideas should be re-used and re-mixed in a way that they can be made new again.

One of the important parts of moving forward is to respect and understand the past. If you are going to just get ignore decades of fun, memorable Superman ideas and adventures, then I wonder how much further one can really go. It is so limiting. Let's wait for Johns to put out his book and see what we see. The fact is that he is known for moving characters forward and respecting the past at the same time. He has earned my trust enough to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[karasu]

No offense, but...so what?

So what? You mean, that as a comic book fan I shouldn't be concerned about the books I love telling the same stories over and over again? What kind of fan would I be if I didn't care that I lost interest in the books? I'm not saying that this one issue is going to have that effect. It's a cumulative thing really.


I mean, honestly, what should companies be more concerned with? Bringing in new readers or just keeping you till the day you die?


Well that's a false dilemma if there ever was one. Marvel wanted to bring in new readers too. You know what they did? They created the Ultimate line! A series of books free from the continuity that us regular readers have been enjoying for years. It works for everyone, newbie and regular alike. DC has done something similar with the 'All-Star' line. Which is why I'm of the opinion that there's no reason for the main books to get caught up in paying homage to themselves and retelling the same stories all over again!


But ya know, since you're so willing to tell me what a company is concerned with, I'm gonna ask you again, what should I as a fan be concerned with? I should be concerned with whether I'll still be able to enjoy the books or not. DC's bottom line is the furthest thing from my mind when I'm reading a book. I don't want to read about your budget problems, your subscriber problems, or your continuity problems, or your legal problems. I want stories that move me.

[Jack Zodiac]

Be concerned with whatever you want. There's absolutely no way in hell any company can ever please one hundred percent of their fans. If you're concerned with modern writers reusing Silver Age themes, be concerned. I'll be enjoying it.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

karasu, I hate to break this to you, but superhero comics have been retelling the same kinds of stories for several decades now. It's not about the story itself, every story has been told before, it's about the style and craft put into the telling of that story.

If that's a problem for you, I'd suggest you start looking elsewhere for entertainment.

[Sean Whitmore]

So what? You mean, that as a comic book fan I shouldn't be concerned about the books I love telling the same stories over and over again?

No, no, YOU can be concerned over anything you want. I'm asking why a company would be concerned about the complaints of a few holdouts while they try to expand their clientele.

Well that's a false dilemma if there ever was one. Marvel wanted to bring in new readers too. You know what they did? They created the Ultimate line! A series of books free from the continuity that us regular readers have been enjoying for years.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't also like to have new readers buy their core books.

DC's bottom line is the furthest thing from my mind when I'm reading a book.

And that's absolutely fine. So long as you realize it's never, not for one second, the furthest thing from theirs.


SEAN

[karasu]

hm, this is strange.


No, no, YOU can be concerned over anything you want. I'm asking why a company would be concerned about the complaints of a few holdouts while they try to expand their clientele.


I'd think it wise for a company to be a little concerned about the complaints of it's readers. What are they gonna do, pull in new readers and then six months say 'go fuck yourselves, we're going after some new blood. *retcon punch!!!*" ' I don't even remember how this discussion became about DC trying to pull in new readers with this rehashing of the silver age. Even if that's what they're doing, am I not allowed to dislike an idea simply because DC is trying to sell more books? That's absurd.

Furthermore, why do you assume that there are only a few of us with this complaint? The most common complaint that exists about Superman is that he's overpowered (which I don't agree with). The silver age stories/feats/heavy focus on kryptonite support that viewpoint.

karasu, I hate to break this to you, but superhero comics have been retelling the same kinds of stories for several decades now. It's not about the story itself, every story has been told before, it's about the style and craft put into the telling of that story.

Ah. The old 'there's nothing new under the sun' defense. To put it plain, you're wrong man. There are depths of personality, experience and action that the Superman books haven't even begun to explore.

[Sean Whitmore]

I'd think it wise for a company to be a little concerned about the complaints of it's readers.

A little. But fans complain about everything. Not the same fans...whatever they do, one faction of fans will complain. So to that extent, they should have very little concern in that department, because it is inevitable.


I don't even remember how this discussion became about DC trying to pull in new readers with this rehashing of the silver age.

Jack Zodiac said:
Yay, they're rehashing stories that sold when Superman was popular and comics weren't inaccessible to new readers.

And you countered:
The problem with comics being 'accessible to new readers' - in this form - is that it shits on the rest of us who have been reading for years.


Even if that's what they're doing, am I not allowed to dislike an idea simply because DC is trying to sell more books? That's absurd.

Your civil rights aren't under attack or anything, if that's what you're asking. :) Dislike whatever you want. Just know your dislike of a thing doesn't mean DC is wrong for doing that thing.


Furthermore, why do you assume that there are only a few of us with this complaint?

The steady decline of readership in the comics industry as a whole.


SEAN

[The Shadow]

There's absolutely no way in hell any company can ever please one hundred percent of their fans.
DAMN!

Quoted for TRUTH!

[The Shadow]

superhero comics have been retelling the same kinds of stories for several decades now.
ANOTHER post that needs quoting.

[karasu]

A little. But fans complain about everything. Not the same fans...whatever they do, one faction of fans will complain. So to that extent, they should have very little concern in that department, because it is inevitable.


Eh, in all honesty, I believe most of their attempts at pulling in a tankload of new readers is why the Superman books have been murdered over and over again. For a long time fans have "complained about everything", because nearly everything stunk. The books would be a lot better if they put creativity first, and business later.






Your civil rights aren't under attack or anything, if that's what you're asking. :) Dislike whatever you want. Just know your dislike of a thing doesn't mean DC is wrong for doing that thing.


As long as you realize that DC isn't "right" just because you support their decisions. ;)



The steady decline of readership in the comics industry as a whole.


SEAN

Comics are selling more than they have in ten years. Sales have been increasing since the year 2000. :/ Not only that, but comic writers seem to have more mainstream respect than they've had in years! By that I mean they're being hired to write for mainstream shows and such.

[Sean Whitmore]

For a long time fans have "complained about everything", because nearly everything stunk.

I don't mean the same fans complaining about everything, though. I mean that no matter what a comic does, some fan will complain about it. Reverse that to please them, a different fan will complain about that.

It's not a fault of the fans, there are just so damn many of them with conflicting likes and opinions.


As long as you realize that DC isn't "right" just because you support their decisions. ;)

No, my opinion of it is equally useless in the long run. ;) The only real arbiter of right and wrong in this case is if what they do gets them their desired results. I just think there's a good chance it might.


Comics are selling more than they have in ten years.

But from record lows. Still nowhere near what they once were.

And to bring this back around to the beginning, if Superman sales in particular are currently increasing, that would indicate DC is getting their desired results because of the inclusion of Supergirl, multi-colored kryptonite, Krypto, and all their other throwbacks. :)


SEAN

[karasu]

And to bring this back around to the beginning, if Superman sales in particular are currently increasing, that would indicate DC is getting their desired results because of the inclusion of Supergirl, multi-colored kryptonite, Krypto, and all their other throwbacks.

No it doesn't. They were back when the comic was selling horrendously too. It's just that we're on the second or third version of those characters now haha. All-Star Superman is the star of the show and that has silver age influence, but it doesn't have Supergirl, or Krypto. What it does have are great stories.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

Ah. The old 'there's nothing new under the sun' defense. To put it plain, you're wrong man. There are depths of personality, experience and action that the Superman books haven't even begun to explore.

You need to read my post again, karasu. I didn't say anything about depths of personality, experience or action, I said every story had been told before so it is the way those stories are told that matter. There are certainly new ways of telling those stories, but the stories themselves have all been told before.

I don't care if they keep telling the same Superman stories over and over again as long as they're doing it in a new and interesting way.

[Jack Zodiac]

I don't care if they keep telling the same Superman stories over and over again as long as they're doing it in a new and interesting way.

A good example of this is "Batman: The Animated Series." Almost every episode was a retelling of a Golden Age or Silver Age Batman or Detective story, and that show was one of the most popular American cartoons in the last twenty years. And those were direct retellings of certain stories, which isn't the case here. What's happening here is a new bunch of writers taking ideas from the Silver Age of Superman and adapting them for today. It's one of the wheels that's been pushing Superman, as a character and franchise, since the Forties.

[karasu]

A good example of this is "Batman: The Animated Series." Almost every episode was a retelling of a Golden Age or Silver Age Batman or Detective story, and that show was one of the most popular American cartoons in the last twenty years. And those were direct retellings of certain stories, which isn't the case here. What's happening here is a new bunch of writers taking ideas from the Silver Age of Superman and adapting them for today. It's one of the wheels that's been pushing Superman, as a character and franchise, since the Forties.

The difference there is that it's an animated series telling stories in a format that they've probably never been told in before.

I'm not saying that retelling classic stories is always bad. I'm saying that retellings and homages to classical stories have been focused on way too much by Superman books. We're constantly teased with Supergirl(at least three of them since 86!). In the last ten years there have been two Superboys. Krypton has been changed like 800 times since the reboot. Three versions of Krypto, countless versions of Bizarro, and on and on and on. They aren't mirroring the creativity of the silver age, they're just toying around with the details.

[Jack Zodiac]

I agree, writers could benefit from being as creative as Schwartz and Maggin and other great Silver Age writers in creating new aspects of the Superman franchise, be they new or reimagined villains, supporting characters, powers, and so on (and some of them have; hell, check out Busiek's last run on Action with The Auctioneer). However, there isn't anything inherently bad about reusing ideas from the Silver Age. Ideas, not stories.

They're bringing back the different colors of kryptonite. They're bringing back mad scientist Luthor. They're bringing back a traditional Bizarro. They aren't polishing these ideas and presenting them as new. All they're doing is bringing parts of the Silver Age into the Modern Age for some rejuvination, both of those ideas and the character.