Should All Star Batman be cancelled? [Archive]

Kid Kyoto

12-18-2006, 05:30 PM

from today's Lying in the Gutters:

ALL CANCELLED?

Rumours from the DC Subscription department have caused all sorts of kerfuffles, telling subscribers that "All Star Batman And Robin The Boy Wonder" have been cancelled. Worried DC readers who called up the department, hoping that maybe they meant that the book just wasn't available from the subscription department (and with their schedules who could blame them looking to replace them with something a bit more regular) were told, no, actually, that while "All Star Superman" will continue, just not from the subscription service, "All Star Batman" has been totally cancelled from issue 5. ..

A quick e-mail to DC confirms what seemed most likely - that "All Star Batman" isn't cancelled. The subscription department got it wrong. Expect someone over there to be given a quiet word.

At this point would it be a good idea?

IamtheRock3

12-18-2006, 05:48 PM

well they could always replace it with a more realiable team, that of the level of HOTNESS

really blame the delay on Lee. I mean think miller had up to seven done last time they mention it. So they much be other good artist of Lee level

overmind

12-18-2006, 06:37 PM

They may as well. Jim Lee doesn't have the time to do that and WildCATS, Miller may also be delaying it. I'm not sure who is doing what to delay it.

StrikeForce Albert

12-18-2006, 07:25 PM

Nope

It's late as hell

like that's never happened before to a comic :rolleyes:

Drink

12-18-2006, 08:42 PM

Late by a month is one thing. Two months is annoying. But....frig, I forget how long it's even been now. May or something?

Cancelled or not, I'm dropping it, and I dropped AS Superman too, as it's been delayed several months too. I'm fed up with the delays.

DWEarhart

12-18-2006, 09:05 PM

I wouldn't mind it. But, how would the relaunch be handled? Repring the previous issues again? Maybe as weeklies, and it returns to monthly?

That's the one that gets me. From a business point, it's going sting, but by someone of DC's size, not so much. Retailers get hurt as well, actually, they feel the brunt of the fallout.

What I can think of right now would be reprint the issues already out as $.99 or even $.45 directors cut issues.

One: It's an incentive to buy again, and for less than a dollar. Two: Believe it or not, it's an apology to the fans.

HOW? BY MAKING US BUY ALL THE FRIGGIN' ISSUES OVER AGAIN?!

Yes. It's director's cut for four or five issues, stuff that is normally worth, what, six bucks? I'm not sure, I don't buy'em.

Still, whatever happens, I wouldn't mind a cancellation and a relaunch.

the goddamn batman

12-18-2006, 09:07 PM

There should be a "who cares" option.

As for the lateness. Issue #4 came out in March of 2006. I can't even rememebr when #5 is intended to come out.

But, I can tell you that Lee has taken all the blame for the lateness, and in doing so mentioned that Miller has been nothing but professional about his deadlines.

Lee also mentioned that he was worried about Franks ability to be on time with his scripts, considering all of his movie obligations, but Frank has been on time, and Jim has not.

It's sad that not only is All Star so late it's just not worth even bothering with, but Wildcats is looking like it's going to suffer now too.

Good thing the cancelled Joe Casey's brilliant run on it so they could 'relaunch' it.:rolleyes:

IamtheRock3

12-18-2006, 10:07 PM

Nope

It's late as hell

like that's never happened before to a comic :rolleyes:

depends if it Late

or BATTLE CHASERS issue 9 late

Kid Kyoto

12-18-2006, 10:12 PM

Or Youngblood Bloodsport late (3 years and counting)

kal_el21

12-18-2006, 10:31 PM

They should cancel it. Collect the rest of the arc and release it as a graphic novel. Make the All-Star line a collection of GN rather than an issue by issue title.

Sean Whitmore

12-19-2006, 12:13 AM

Cancel it? The hell for?

So the people who want to read it won't get to and the people who don't want to read it won't care?

Who does that benefit?

SEAN

a-spidey

12-19-2006, 02:51 AM

i agree. They shouldn't cancel it. As said, everyone who wants to read it will read it when it's comes out and for the rest who don't care. Well, they don't care at all. Maybe a new artist at the right time would do it.

And i still hope for the paperback for the arc. Well, maybe i will grow old on that :)

jaguarshark

12-19-2006, 02:59 AM

I'm with Sean. How would this benefit anyone? Is this sort of speculation just something to do to kill time between issues?

Kid Kyoto

12-19-2006, 05:51 AM

I'm with Sean. How would this benefit anyone? Is this sort of speculation just something to do to kill time between issues?

because releasing it as a 'bimonthly' :D comic is a commitment and every month it's delayed is a broken promise to their fans. Cancelling it means owning up to the fact DC cannot make this commitment. Changing to an OGN format gives the creators more liberty (no more cutting the story into 22 page chunks) and rewards the fans by knowing we're buying a whole story not one chapter with no idea when or if the next one will ship.

TheTen-EyedMan

12-19-2006, 06:01 AM

B Clay Moore's Hawaiian Dick took nearly two years to come out and it was only four issues long.

ASBATS is on time compared to that.

the goddamn batman

12-19-2006, 01:55 PM

B Clay Moore's Hawaiian Dick took nearly two years to come out and it was only four issues long.

ASBATS is on time compared to that.

B Clay Moore's Hawaiian Dick was also through Image, which pays on the back end, which means that he probably had to do other work to, you know, pay the bills...

Frank Miller and Jim Lee were most likely handed ridiculous amounts of money before a single idea was commited to memory... not to mention the fact that even if they were not payed at all for ASB&R they still ahve more money than most people working in comics.

so I wouldn't really say that it's at all comparable.

Daredevil: Father #6 would be a better comparison.;)

sgt pepper

12-19-2006, 02:29 PM

Jim Lee needs to get off the internet.

Kara Zor El

12-19-2006, 03:11 PM

shaxper

12-19-2006, 03:14 PM

I don't think the fact that
1. Frank Miller's arc is wildly unpopular, and
2. This book has been delayed to death (probably because of Jim Lee's overcommittments?)

are any indication that the title, itself, has limited potential. The promise of this title is just as strong as it was from issue #1, when everyone was clammoring to buy it. A bad launch is a reflection on the people that screwed up the launch. That doesn't mean that another creative team and a stricter approach from the editorial staff wouldn't produce an AMAZING Batman title. The premise behind the All-Star series, in which virtually anything goes, is a priceless one, and it should be encouraged. I want to see people try new things with Batman that aren't restricted to a tight interpretation or continuity. I don't see why Miller and Lee have to ruin that for us.

Kara Zor El

12-19-2006, 03:17 PM

Kid Kyoto

12-19-2006, 06:18 PM

You only cancel something if it costs more money than it makes. Unless you are Pink Floyd that is.
Anyway, I'm still waiting for the next issue of Warriors of Plasm. But I know Jim Shooter won't let me down.

Or if you can make more money relaunching it.

Just imagine killing ASB, letting it sit for a year or so then relaunching with a TPB of the first run and then a brand new shinny #1 with multiple covers, holograms and suchwot.

Plus the cost of launching a new comic is very low, it's not like developing a new TV series or movies. This is why so many are lauched and relaunched at the drop of a hat.

Sgt. Preston

12-19-2006, 07:41 PM

Didn't seem to be a very popular interpretation of the character to begin with. Not sure how they could salvage it without doing a relaunch. Seems like these All Star books are being assigned to creators that have too much on their plate.

90'sCartoonMan

12-19-2006, 08:05 PM

I'm with Sean. How would this benefit anyone?

There's a pool going, actually. I voted "No" on the poll because I predicted ASBARTBW would be canceled with issue 12...March 2022.

If I win, I get a bag of Cheez-Its and a Frank Miller pez dispenser. I'd say that's a benefit.

mattx110

12-19-2006, 08:13 PM

man, if it was cancelled the issues would probably ship more consistently.

Sean Whitmore

12-19-2006, 08:21 PM

There's a pool going, actually. I voted "No" on the poll because I predicted ASBARTBW would be canceled with issue 12...March 2022.

If I win, I get a bag of Cheez-Its and a Frank Miller pez dispenser. I'd say that's a benefit.

A pool sounds like a fun idea, actually. See who gets the closest to predicting the exact shipping date for the next issue. All the losers have to mail a box of cookies to the winner, or something.

SEAN

Apathy Boy

12-19-2006, 08:53 PM

You only cancel something if it costs more money than it makes. Unless you are Pink Floyd that is.
Anyway, I'm still waiting for the next issue of Warriors of Plasm. But I know Jim Shooter won't let me down.Yeah, from a reader's perspective, no comic needs to be cancelled unless it's proven to give you herpes or something, and from a publisher's perspective, there's no need to cancel a book unless it sells poorly. Fans' hysteria aside, neither of those applies to ASBAR.

Really, how is the world a worse place if ASBAR is extremely late with the potential to have the odd issue come out, as opposed to being cancelled with absolutely no chance of having the story finished?

the goddamn batman

12-19-2006, 10:10 PM

Really, how is the world a worse place if ASBAR is extremely late with the potential to have the odd issue come out, as opposed to being cancelled with absolutely no chance of having the story finished?

Doesn't that question answer itself?

TROUBLEZ

12-20-2006, 12:48 AM

Just cancel it. Every 2 months is asking a bit much considering the quality of each issue. With Alex Ross I can understand because it's hard to paint a montly comic every month for JUSTICE but for this stuff...Is Jim Lee and Frank Miller such hot star talent that they can't just put out a book every month like they used to in their Marvel days.

This is just DC pandering to these people. For the All Star talent, earn your reputation !

jaguarshark

12-20-2006, 05:29 AM

Just cancel it. Every 2 months is asking a bit much considering the quality of each issue.
Every two months? TWO MONTHS, you say? If this book came out every two months, there'd be no problem. Compared to the current schedule, people would be saying, "hey, there's that new issue of ASB&R. Didn't the last issue just come out? Jeez, slow down there, pardners. God, at this rate, you'll have Dick put on the Robin costume waaaaay too quick."

Still, I've seen nothing that convinces me that cancellation is really a reasonable alternative.

Damo

12-20-2006, 07:50 AM

superfriend

12-20-2006, 08:53 AM

Cancel it? The hell for?

So the people who want to read it won't get to and the people who don't want to read it won't care?

Who does that benefit?

SEAN

^^^^^this.

Dennis Kininger

12-20-2006, 10:37 AM

I stuck with the book for three issues, realized how little had actually happened and gave up on it.

Pretty art, weak stories and endless delays isn't going to hold my interest.

Dennis

PS: Personally, I like Morrison's SUPERMAN book better and that seems to have vanished, too.

kal_el21

12-20-2006, 11:17 AM

I still like my idea of just doing a graphic novel that collects the entire story. There are no delays. You get a complete story and with none of the bitching.

Ruthless_Pryde

12-20-2006, 11:35 AM

A the rate this book is coming out.....who would njotice it got canceled?

The idea behind it is to put the best writers with the best artists to tell out of continuity stories.... so bring in the next team and let Miller and Lee finish in TPB. Pick up with issue 7 and let it go from there......this just stinks

mattx110

12-20-2006, 12:01 PM

<Insert "who would be able to tell the difference?" joke here>

hey, i already said it'd ship more consistently when cancelled but nobody cared :-/

The Xenos

12-20-2006, 12:49 PM

Yeah. They should just collect the damn thing as a trade or graphic novel whenever it gets finished. Anything else is just milking money out of gullable fanboys (like myself).

Sean Whitmore

12-20-2006, 01:02 PM

Yeah. They should just collect the damn thing as a trade or graphic novel whenever it gets finished. Anything else is just milking money out of gullable fanboys (like myself).

How is it milking money out of you? You're paying exactly the same whether the book comes out on time or a year late.

SEAN

Kara Zor El

12-20-2006, 02:39 PM

How is it milking money out of you?
SEAN

Well, he could be a cow with liquid cash, instead of milk, and his All Star Batman Comic, could have mutated into an All Star Batman Comic Farm hand, who sits on a stool beside him, and with glossy paper fingers, this All Star Batman Comic Farm Hand could actually be milking him by massaging his udders. I know that this is about as likely as a missing boy appearing on a milk carton before he's even missing but stranger things have happened.

Vic Vega

12-20-2006, 03:12 PM

This book is an excellent arguement for the abolition of the monthy/ bimonthy comics and switching to trades. We'll read it when its done.

By the time the next issue comes out no one's going to care enough to pick it up.

Paul Dee

12-20-2006, 03:31 PM

This book is an excellent arguement for the abolition of the monthy/ bimonthy comics and switching to trades. We'll read it when its done.

Yes, but all the books that come out on time and work as monthly episodic chapters work against your point.

Erebus

12-20-2006, 04:00 PM

Its a great concept, to have a totally fresh Batmans series for the next generation of comic book readers. Yet so far, the book has been lacking. Get a new writer and artist, people with talent and time.

CaptainAwesome

12-20-2006, 06:13 PM

I hope it doesnt get cancelled. I havent read it yet, but I will be the first in line for the trade. Batman isnt really one of my characters, but this series really sounds like its something special.

Grizsly

12-20-2006, 08:03 PM

Oh it's something special alright - it's a goddam--

Ah, forget it. A book that's only come out ONCE in an entire year isn't worth wasting words over.

Mister Mets

12-21-2006, 12:36 PM

No.

When it comes out it sells ridiculously well. And the DC will want to have an eventual collection of it with a complete beginning, middle, and end, which will likely sell copies as long as there are Batman comics (just on the strength of Miller's other works).

And the people who don't like it have no obligation to buy it, as it doesn't tie into any other books.

blackphoenix

12-21-2006, 01:18 PM

the goddamn batman

12-21-2006, 03:02 PM

CaptainAwesome

12-21-2006, 05:03 PM

Y ou know, I wouldn't mind the lateness if it was a quality book(like All Star Superman or Astonishing X-Men), but it's just..not. This is probably one of the worst books DC puts out(followed closely by Supergirl and Supergirl and the LSH). It's like DK2 multiplied by 11. Does Miller get high before he writes this crap? Batman making Robin eat rats and slamming Alfred into a wall?Ten bucks says that Catwoman is gonna be a whore and Zatanna a stripper when they show up.

So yeah, I'm voting cancel.

While I've already said I dont read the book, I was under the impression that it was supposed to be a spoof. I thought that it was kind of mocking the whole "grim & gritty" thing that Miller himself made popular. Of course, I'll have to wait for the trade to find out for myself, but is this a possibility?

Kara Zor El

12-22-2006, 03:18 AM

You are aware of the fact that DC doesn't cancel books because you don't like them, right?

Low sales get the axe. Not ridiculously high sales. DC doesn't care about the quality of their books, as much as we'd all like to think they do, they do not. They simply care if it sells well.

I think ASB&R as well as a few other series are prime examples of this.

Stop buying it and it might get the axe.

I think that the people at DC care very much about the quality of their product. It's quite a damning accusation to throw at them that you know. That doesn't mean the product will be good.

Kara Zor El

12-22-2006, 03:47 AM

While I've already said I dont read the book, I was under the impression that it was supposed to be a spoof. I thought that it was kind of mocking the whole "grim & gritty" thing that Miller himself made popular. Of course, I'll have to wait for the trade to find out for myself, but is this a possibility?

Yeah, you're totally right.

Jaye

12-22-2006, 08:08 AM

I've noticed in the three comic stores I was in this week, ASBAR #4 was still available in quantity. It can't be selling too well, unless it was ordered in ridiculous quantity.

The Zapper

12-22-2006, 10:08 AM

I suppose from a sales point it may still be worth saving. I say put the dog down though.

Cayman

12-22-2006, 03:43 PM

I think they should let it complete.

There's still enough people interested in reading it to justify its continuance, plus it'll probably be a nice-selling TPB for DC in 2013 or whenever.

Kid Kyoto

12-22-2006, 04:26 PM

Even with good sales it might be worth canceling because of the damage a murdering, pedophilic, rat-eating Batman is doing to DC's #1 icon.

the goddamn batman

12-22-2006, 04:46 PM

because of the damage a murdering, pedophilic, rat-eating Batman is doing to DC's #1 icon.

Are we reading the same comic, or do you just not understand what that word means?

Sean Whitmore

12-22-2006, 04:47 PM

Even with good sales it might be worth canceling because of the damage a murdering, pedophilic, rat-eating Batman is doing to DC's #1 icon.

You mean zero damage?

Don't see DC being very worried about it.

SEAN

the goddamn batman

12-22-2006, 04:58 PM

I think that the people at DC care very much about the quality of their product.

Really? See, I thought DC was a publishing company looking to turn a profit... just like every other company. I'm not bashing DC for attempting to make money, that what companies do. I just think it's ridiculous to pretend that DC cares about a quality book instead of good sales. Good books with low sales get canned all the time, while shitty books with great numbers keep rolling out new issues. It's simple math really.

I mean, this is a thead about All Star Batman, whcih most have not found to be a quality book, but it sells in huge numbers...

astronato

12-22-2006, 06:28 PM

I wish they would cancel it and restart with a new number one issue, a new direction and a new creative team.

Kid Kyoto

12-22-2006, 07:08 PM

Are we reading the same comic, or do you just not understand what that word means?

a bit of hyperbole but his obsession with a 12 year old is pretty obviously hinting at something.

think about how much damage Adam West did to Batman, imagine if this becomes the image people on the street associate with him.

Sean Whitmore

12-22-2006, 07:19 PM

People have been making the "Batman likes young boys" joke for 60 years. They'll continue making them for another 60, regardless of anything Frank Miller does.

SEAN

the goddamn batman

12-22-2006, 07:41 PM

a bit of hyperbole but his obsession with a 12 year old is pretty obviously hinting at something.

I'm not sure I agree with that. He was looking for someone to replace him as Batman... not a sex partner.

think about how much damage Adam West did to Batman, imagine if this becomes the image people on the street associate with him.

You mean brining Batman into the public eye? Adam West's Batman, regardless of how off the mark (which at the time wasn't that off the mark) helped make Bamtan the pop culture icon he is today.

Batman might not be what he is today if it were not for the 60's tv series, Tim Burtons first Batman film, and DKR.

Besies Batman has been portrayed in so mny different ways, I hardly think one more is going to ruin the character.

mattx110

12-22-2006, 11:28 PM

i think there might be a lot of issues left in comic stores because whne something comes out so infrequently it's kinda like a leprechan. you never know the next time an issue will come out, so you make sure to get as muhc of this one as you can.

King Krypton

12-24-2006, 08:20 PM

Cancellation would be the best thing to do. Admit the book stinks, admit the All-Star line was a misfire, and put it in the past. (I'd also say this about the Superman book, too.)

Besides, at a time when Batman's getting back to being his old self, why do we need to keep pimping a one-note, much-derided spin on him that wore out its welcome a long time ago?

Sean Whitmore

12-24-2006, 08:26 PM

Cancellation would be the best thing to do. Admit the book stinks, admit the All-Star line was a misfire, and put it in the past. (I'd also say this about the Superman book, too.)

Surprising absolutely no one, I'd have to disagree that cancelling the best Superman book currently published is the best thing to do.

SEAN

the goddamn batman

12-24-2006, 08:47 PM

not to mention that All Star Superman was voted best comic of 2006.;)

But, he doesn't like it, so they'd better cancel it.

Kara Zor El

12-27-2006, 03:29 AM

Really? See, I thought DC was a publishing company looking to turn a profit... just like every other company. I'm not bashing DC for attempting to make money, that what companies do. I just think it's ridiculous to pretend that DC cares about a quality book instead of good sales. Good books with low sales get canned all the time, while shitty books with great numbers keep rolling out new issues. It's simple math really.

I mean, this is a thead about All Star Batman, whcih most have not found to be a quality book, but it sells in huge numbers...

What you're implying is that business men don't care about the quality of their product. In some cases this may be true, in most cases I think your average business man is proud of his product and cares about the quality of it. The world would be in a very bad state if they didn't. And when the product is an art form like a comic and a culturaly phenomenal one like Batman, I think they care like hell about the quality of it. That doesn't mean that in getting what they feel like a quality producy out is going to match your idea of that product.

jaguarshark

12-27-2006, 03:46 AM

Originally posted by Kid Kyoto
a bit of hyperbole but his obsession with a 12 year old is pretty obviously hinting at something.

Hey Mr Wertham, long time no see. How have you been?
Honestly, Batman has had an 'obsession with a 12 year old' since the '30s, so let's not put too much of the blame for that on Miller.

Originally posted by Kid Kyoto
think about how much damage Adam West did to Batman, imagine if this becomes the image people on the street associate with him.

Holy overstatement, Batman! I'm trying to imagine what it would be like if ASB&R became the image that 'people on the street' associate with Batman, but I just can't get past the part where most people on the street don't care about comic books.

the goddamn batman

12-27-2006, 04:57 AM

What you're implying is that business men don't care about the quality of their product. In some cases this may be true, in most cases I think your average business man is proud of his product and cares about the quality of it. The world would be in a very bad state if they didn't. And when the product is an art form like a comic and a culturaly phenomenal one like Batman, I think they care like hell about the quality of it. That doesn't mean that in getting what they feel like a quality producy out is going to match your idea of that product.

What I'm saying is that in the end, the book sales are more important than if it was an artistic masterpiece or the best written issue of that year.

Recent proof of this (for myself) is Detective 821. Paul Dini's first issue, J.H. Williams on art. It was aperfect little story with some of the most well thought out and well executed art I've seen grace the pages of a Batman title in a long time. And DC packed it with 8 consecutive pages of extra ads! That was the most artistic and well written comic of the year (for me), at least for the Bat-books.

So there you go. Put more ads in that issue everyone is going to buy, and we can probably double our profits!

Not to mention that the story does not have 8 consecutive pages, only the ads get that honor. You know... gotta have priorities.

Extreme Dew Tour 06 is brought to you by, Detective Comics!

Kara Zor El

12-27-2006, 05:10 AM

What I'm saying is that in the end, the book sales are more important than if it was an artistic masterpiece or the best written issue of that year.

Recent proof of this (for myself) is Detective 821. Paul Dini's first issue, J.H. Williams on art. It was aperfect little story with some of the most well thought out and well executed art I've seen grace the pages of a Batman title in a long time. And DC packed it with 8 consecutive pages of extra ads! That was the most artistic and well written comic of the year (for me), at least for the Bat-books.

So there you go. Put more ads in that issue everyone is going to buy, and we can probably double our profits!

Not to mention that the story does not have 8 consecutive pages, only the ads get that honor. You know... gotta have priorities.

Extreme Dew Tour 06 is brought to you by, Detective Comics!

But making big money out of art is something most artists are up for too. You go to a Pink Floyd concert and they are selling you dozens of t-shirts and programs etc. They're playing somewhere so big that those at the halfway point only see some ants on the stage and big flying pig. But that's a good example of the business of art in a modern world. Pink Floyd would still care very much about you enjoying their live show but they also want to make lots of money, same as the Stones or just about anyone. Comics are pop art, they are very commercial, they have to do what it takes to survive. Those in control have to work as a team with no one person as the true artist.
I just think it's wrong to say that the people at DC don't care about their product for the reasons you give. They probably get a real buzz and kick out of what they do. It is one of the best jobs in the world.

the goddamn batman

12-27-2006, 04:16 PM

But making big money out of art is something most artists are up for too.

[QUOTE=Kara Zor El;4161371]You go to a Pink Floyd concert and they are selling you dozens of t-shirts and programs etc. They're playing somewhere so big that those at the halfway point only see some ants on the stage and big flying pig. But that's a good example of the business of art in a modern world. Pink Floyd would still care very much about you enjoying their live show but they also want to make lots of money,

This is possibly the worst example you could have chosen.

Pink Floyd (those four guys anyway) have more money than they could ever spend... than their childrens childrens children could ever spend.

So, no. I'd have to say that thhey really are not in it for the money.

If they were, David would have made his solo record a 'Pink Floyd' record and sold a billion more copies. He'd also be on tour right now, as Pink Floyd, not David Gilmour.

Roger Waters seems (and I went) to really only be on tour to bash the US government. The entire show, and every song played, reflected Rogers political passions.

Not to mention that all four of them actually played on a stage together at 'Live 8' or whatever it was, and could be making FAR more money touring as the 'Reunited Pink Floyd' than seperately as Roger Waters, and David Gilmour.

I just think it's wrong to say that the people at DC don't care about their product for the reasons you give. They probably get a real buzz and kick out of what they do. It is one of the best jobs in the world.

I'm sure they love their jobs, and enjoy when the comiics are well done. I'm just waying that isn't the bottom line.

I seriously doubt that they have as many meetings aout "that last issue of Tec sure was artsy' as they do about 'that last issue of Tec sure made us a lot of money with all those extra ads'.

Really. They are trying to make a profit first and foremost.

Your Imaginary Pal

12-27-2006, 04:39 PM

there's late and then there's having a child conceived and born within the span of two issues of what is supposed to be a bi-monthly periodicle.
I was reading the last issue of ASB&R to my five month old*, now he has a PhD and a home on the moon.

*I have no children, let alone successful smart ones.

spidervenom

12-28-2006, 12:00 PM

I honestly like All Star Batman to me its one of those comics that are so bad its good

Johnny_H

12-28-2006, 12:05 PM

I voted to cancel it, because i think it sucks.

If the results of this poll indicate a demographic, then they could probably still make money off it lol if they kept it going.

Kara Zor El

12-28-2006, 12:12 PM

[QUOTE=Kara Zor El;4161371]But making big money out of art is something most artists are up for too.

This is possibly the worst example you could have chosen.

Pink Floyd (those four guys anyway) have more money than they could ever spend... than their childrens childrens children could ever spend.

So, no. I'd have to say that thhey really are not in it for the money.

Pink Floyd are in it for the money. It's one of things that motivated them. They are in for the art too. They go hand in hand if you're lucky.
You used Roger and Dave as examples in your point. Dave wanted to do The Wall tour in stadiums, so they could all make lots of Money. But Roger refused, they threatened to go on tour without him and do it but eventually backed down. I'm going back a bit here of course.
And Roger famously said "You think about all the good you could do with all the money but in the end you just decide to keep it."
The last two Pink Floyd albums were all about money really. Because they should have been Dave Gilmour and Friends albums. So the last one is him finally realizing that he can do it alone and sell lots of albums as long as it sounds like Pink Floyd and you bang a VOICE and GUITAR of Pink Floyd sticker on the cover. Anyway this is a daft argument. Either of us could be right about the people at DC , as we do not know them. They could be soulless, silicon based lifeforms from Phobos for all we I we know.

the goddamn batman

12-28-2006, 03:14 PM

You do know that Dave is famous for giving huge amounts of money to charity on a regular basis, right?

You know that the Pink Floyd VW Golf that they did, they gave all of he money back to automotive safety research, right?

I mean, honestly, the point that those guys are at, there isn't more money. They simply can't spend all of the money the have.

Dave owns several planes, and an aviation school, he's still doing fine.

And, Pink Floyd lost money doing the Wall tour. Gilmour wanted to do it as stadiums so the attendance could be larger for single shows, because otherwise, the cost of production for a single show, and crew would simply sink the tour. It was never about making tons of money. It was about breaking evan at the very least.

Syd Barrett lived his entire life on the royalties of ONE Pink Floyd ablum, ad his 3 solo records (which sold only a fraction of the Floyd record)... an entire llife time on royalties from a single record.

Dave, Roger, Nick and Rick could live countless lifetimes on the royalties from Dark Side alone, not to mention their other 15 albums.

And to say that money was their motivation is just ridiculous. Look at how many hippy-dippy albums those guys made before they did anything saleable. If making a ton of money was the plan, they sure went about it in a weird way.

As for the last two Floyd records, I sorta agree with Dave that just because Roger wants out, doesn't mean that everyone else has to leave.

As long as Nick is still there, it's Pink Floyd. Roger acts like he came up with the name, or that he didn't do the exact same thing with Syd.

Whatever, point is, there isn't 'more money'. They could be on a PF tour right now, making more money than you or I will ever see. But they aren't.

Jaye

12-28-2006, 04:57 PM

This is all well and good conversation, but I might move posts off to the music board eventually, in case people are looking for this particular train of thought later.

the goddamn batman

12-28-2006, 05:59 PM

yeah, we drifted.:o

TheLazy

12-30-2006, 08:47 PM

Or Youngblood Bloodsport late (3 years and counting)

Think about those poor Guns'n'Roses fans. Whats Chinese Democracy at now, 12-13 years?

:)

TheLazy

12-30-2006, 08:53 PM

A pool sounds like a fun idea, actually. See who gets the closest to predicting the exact shipping date for the next issue. All the losers have to mail a box of cookies to the winner, or something.

SEAN

January 2008, and Ill have double chocolate chip cookies, thank you very much

:)

Doesitmatter

02-06-2007, 03:17 PM

Sometimes I think DC stopped publishing this out of sheer embarrassment.

JoeMD

02-06-2007, 03:41 PM

I'm not really sure which option I'd go with. Part of me feels that the book being as late as it is they may as well cancel it because it's been so long between issues. But then, as some of you say, those who want to read it will get it no matter how long it tales for the next issue to appear.

Myself, I wasn't blown away be the first lot of issues. Sure, it looks nice but the scripts were just, well, boring and they really didn't do anything for me. At least the books lateness gives me a chance to re-read the issues I have and decide if I want to continue with the series or drop it before I have to spend another $6.95 on a half decent book.

Daystrom

02-07-2007, 12:04 PM

I really think Millers scripts are the problem here. I get think there be been a request for some rewrites and Miller just doesn't care enough to do them. Lee just coming out and saying my bad and all kind smells of something else.

My theory still stands that Frank never wants to be ask to do Batman ever again and this is his way of making sure no one ever asks again.

4thHorseman

02-07-2007, 12:10 PM

I enjoy the book, despite delays. It's a fun read, and I like Lee's work.

Oh well, not too much of a loss if its not coming out. Doesn't change anything for me really.

Punch

02-07-2007, 10:11 PM

I really think Millers scripts are the problem here. I get think there be been a request for some rewrites and Miller just doesn't care enough to do them. Lee just coming out and saying my bad and all kind smells of something else.

Why wouldn't Jim Lee say nothing at all, then? It's not like Lee is a nobody who can be pushed around.Is it that hard to take this at face value?

My theory still stands that Frank never wants to be ask to do Batman ever again and this is his way of making sure no one ever asks again.You mean after his next book Batman:Holy Terror, right?

Matches_Malone_X

02-08-2007, 02:10 AM

I think the book is great. I am a fan of both Miller and Lee and i think the book's pace is fine, wait til the trade comes out, then youll get it, it sucks from an issue to issue basis, but i'm pretty sure its going to work out just fine in thelong run. The tone is good too, it the millerverse its meant to be a darker version.

anyway I cant wait til then next one.....and from the looks of it I will be....but it gets closer every day, til the next delay.

Kara Zor El

02-08-2007, 07:27 AM

Matches_Malone_X

02-08-2007, 11:43 PM

when i said it that the pacing sucked i was refering to the fact that from issue to issue you only seem to go from 4.1 to 4.2 rather than from 4 to 5. Therefore just reading a single issue isnt very mind blowing or progressive. This doesnt bother me, because i would rather know .1 .2 .3 .4 etc, which, when you read it in the trade will be a much more complete story.

so to clarify

me thinks: good good very very good

(but i understand where the others are coming from)

time will tell when its complete.

TheWraith

02-10-2007, 05:34 PM

They should cancel all the AS books and focus their quality creators on the characters real books.

Sean Whitmore

02-10-2007, 05:47 PM

They should cancel all the AS books and focus their quality creators on the characters real books.

A good book is a good book. I don't know what a "real" book is.

(I am, of course, referring to the Superman half of th AS line)

SEAN

TheWraith

02-10-2007, 06:17 PM

I don't consider them good, you see. I'd be happy if they got rid of all of 'em (AS books that is).

Sean Whitmore

02-10-2007, 06:25 PM

I don't consider them good, you see. I'd be happy if they got rid of all of 'em (AS books that is).

Oh, I see. I was confused 'cause you made it sound like you wanted the AS creators on the DCU books.

SEAN

marvelboi77

02-10-2007, 06:29 PM

It's cancelled as far as I'm concerned, I will not be buying issue #5 or any others. It was not that good in the first place.

zebop

02-10-2007, 06:40 PM

My man at the comics store says issue #5 will be out...in April. :eek:

Hope it's worth the wait.

The Xenos

02-10-2007, 06:46 PM

I think the worst part of all this is that All Star was very hyped up and supposed to be this awesome new book that would eventually have a slew of top artists and writers and stories on it.

And then they both just stopped being made.

Nevermind Legends of the Dark Knight already was supposed to be filling that niche. Meanwhile we have the line of Confidential books doing the same thing. Of course Legends just ended.

the goddamn batman

02-10-2007, 07:34 PM

I thought All Star Superman was still, while running late, being released.

And, yeah, the delays on ASB&R are bad enough, without thinking about how long it'll take to get a different team on it... if said different team isn't the rumoured Miller/Adams team. Which, I'd be fine with.

I know there are contracts and other titles in the way but, I'd love to see Loeb/Sale do a sequel to the TLH/DV books. It would be perfect. Dark Victory ends with Dick becoming Robin. An All Star series could start right after that. Besides, everybody loves a trilogy (No, Haunted Knight doesn't count).

By the time Miller/Lee finish their run, Loeb/Sale contracts and other books will probably not be an issue anymore.

the goddamn batman

02-10-2007, 11:08 PM

My man at the comics store says issue #5 will be out...in April. :eek:

Hope it's worth the wait.

It's quietly been pushed back to May 17th.:rolleyes:

Punch

02-10-2007, 11:24 PM

Neal Adams is definitely working on Batman, don't know for which series though.

Jaye

02-11-2007, 01:49 PM

I know there are contracts and other titles in the way but, I'd love to see Loeb/Sale do a sequel to the TLH/DV books. It would be perfect. Dark Victory ends with Dick becoming Robin. An All Star series could start right after that. Besides, everybody loves a trilogy (No, Haunted Knight doesn't count).

Did you read Catwoman: When in Rome? It's a spinoff, not a trilogy, but very up to par art-wise, and takes place during LH.

the goddamn batman

02-11-2007, 02:02 PM

Yeah! That book is beautiful! I love when Tim does his inkwashes. Daredevil Yellow is another beautiful piece of work in that vein. All the flash backs in Dark Victory are just amazing. I love his inkwash work sooooo much.

I need to get the Catwoman: When in Rome Hard Cover.

I'm not too into Loeb on his own, but Loeb/Sale are a brilliant team. They really need to do more work together... on Batman! I think they are certainly a team worthy of the name 'All Star'... and their two prior Batman books fit perfectly with what the All Star Batman concept is.

I bet they could keep a deadline too!

The Punished

02-11-2007, 02:03 PM

I am intrigued with All Star Batman, right now I don't know where they are going with thet storyline but heck most of the storylines I read in the books these days from issue to issue I have no idea which way they are going.

If you look at it, we all have waited long time for books both bad & good so I don't think it should be cancelled. I think the guys in charge at DC should have realized the creative team on the story arc had many things going on in their creative lifestyles. I think if you want to complain---complain how the head guys should have chosen an incredible creative team that didn't have their heads in making movies and other series or should I say other comic universes. I think books can overcome 1 creative member being distracted but 2 members should send up a red flag to everyone that there is no way on this world or any other that the book will be on schedule.

the goddamn batman

02-11-2007, 06:03 PM

I don't think Frank has had a problem getting the scripts done. Jim said he was worried Frank would be preoccupied and run late, but that he hasn't at all.

the film freak

02-12-2007, 01:19 PM

I don't see it getting canceled unless both creators just decided to stop working on it. DC paid a lot of money for this book and when it does come out it sells extremely well. And I imagine the eventual trade will sell even better.

Heck even people who hate the book buy it.

the goddamn batman

02-12-2007, 01:29 PM

Exactly.

Besides, if it was cancelled, who knows how many great lines like 'The Goddamn Batman' we'd be missing out on.

Hellcow

02-14-2007, 07:54 AM

guyjo

02-14-2007, 01:00 PM

The only reason I would want All Star Batman to finally release again is so that it can finally drop in sales and get cancelled. Let it finally be over. The delays and delays this title has is only delaying the inevitable. Put it (and most of us readers) out of it's misery.

the goddamn batman

02-14-2007, 03:47 PM

The only reason I would want All Star Batman to finally release again is so that it can finally drop in sales and get cancelled.

Probably not going to happen. Be it the Jim Lee fans, the 'train wreck' aspect or people who just like it... yes, they do exist.

The thing is, this title could drop in sales at about half, and still be making enough money to justify its continuation. Don't forget, it is the best selling title any month that it's released. ;)

Put it (and most of us readers) out of it's misery.

I don't understand this at all. Why would you be in misery? If you don't like it, do not read it. Simple. Yes?

And, why should the people who do like it, not be allowed to read it, just because you and/or others don't like it? There are many (most) comics that I don't like, but I'd never ask or hope that they be cancelled on that basis alone. That's just selfish.

captain_unimpressive

02-14-2007, 03:52 PM

You know, it really doesn't matter, since either way it won't be released.

Sean Whitmore

02-14-2007, 03:55 PM

I don't understand this at all. Why would you be in misery? If you don't like it, do not read it. Simple. Yes?

No, because if the holy image of Batman is being desecrated, anywhere, in any form, at any point in time, it is a personal insult against everyone who doesn't like it.

Warren Ellis wrote a weird Batman story a few years ago, and it was like he broke into my home in the dead of night and stepped on my nuts as I slept.

SEAN

IRONY...

02-14-2007, 04:21 PM

I think that is Bruce Wayne's lawyer who are delaying this storyline...It should be kept secret...Damn' u Miller...

dancj

02-15-2007, 04:30 AM

No, because if the holy image of Batman is being desecrated, anywhere, in any form, at any point in time, it is a personal insult against everyone who doesn't like it.
Get a grip man - it's just a story!!! It's not even in continuity

Sean Whitmore

02-15-2007, 07:10 AM

Get a grip man - it's just a story!!! It's not even in continuity

I can't tell if you're playing along with me or just didn't realize I was being sarcastic. :)

SEAN

Citizen V

02-15-2007, 04:49 PM

I don't understand this at all. Why would you be in misery? If you don't like it, do not read it. Simple. Yes?
.

If you said this 10 years ago,people would stop reading.But today,there are 3 reasons.1-Some dont care,and just buy it anyway.2-Some buy it in hopes of change.3-Some buy it..even though they dont want to.

I voted to cancel it.

the goddamn batman

02-16-2007, 03:42 AM

No, because if the holy image of Batman is being desecrated, anywhere, in any form, at any point in time, it is a personal insult against everyone who doesn't like it.

The sad thing is that some people really do feel that way... I just can't even begin to comprehend that train of thought.

Warren Ellis wrote a weird Batman story a few years ago, and it was like he broke into my home in the dead of night and stepped on my nuts as I slept.

Which one was that? He did the Planetary/Batman book. I liked that. And I know he did the story in Batman Black and White too. What else has he done? I must have missed it.

the goddamn batman

02-16-2007, 03:43 AM

I voted to cancel it.

But why? I just can't see a logical reason for it to be cancelled beyond poor sales. And let's face it, sales are fine.

Kid Kyoto

02-16-2007, 04:14 AM

But why? I just can't see a logical reason for it to be cancelled beyond poor sales. And let's face it, sales are fine.

Well anything that doesn't come out for a year or more is defacto cancelled.

The main reason would be to stop this charade that ASB is a monthly/bimonthy/quarterly comic. Just scrap the pamphlet and release the TBP when/if its ready sometime around 2300.