Lex Luthor's history Post-INFINITE CRISIS

[Buried Alien]

Just a year or so before INFINITE CRISIS, Mark Waid's BIRTHRIGHT established a new origin for Lex Luthor that had some similarities with that of the Silver/Bronze Age Luthor. Despite this new origin, however, Luthor was still characterized in current comics as the Post-COIE Luthor established by John Byrne in 1986. Luthor has a history as a corporate mogul and former President of the U.S. He also, however, seems to have a history as the purple/green bodysuit/battlearmor-wearing Luthor of Pre-COIE continuity. Does Luthor's past now contain elements of both his Silver/Bronze Age "mad scientist" configuration *and* his Modern Age corporate mogul configuration?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[PatrickG]

52 mentioned Luthor growing up in Smallville.

And in "Up, Up and Away", he built robots that broke him out of prison.

[J. Robb]

To me he still seems a lot like the "Man of Steel" Lex who ran Lexcorp for many years, but now he's underground and relying on himself instead of others for a change. As for the Smallville thing, I think that will be mentioned or ignored depending on the writer.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

You could squeeze a few of the Silver Age Luthor vs. Superman stories in there, I suppose, but I think the general gist of the current version of Luthor is that he hasn't become a full-blown public villain until just recently. Until his very public meltdown as President of the United States, I think Luthor was a generally well respected businessman--otherwise he wouldn't have gotten elected.

So, I think the general sequence of events is this...

-Lex orchestrates his parents' demise and gains a small fortune in insurance money.

-Lex moves to Smallville to investigate the kryptonite and meets Clark Kent, who becomes his only friend for a short period of time. Lex's kryptonite experiement goes horribly wrong, Lex blames Clark and the rest of Smallville and covers up all traces of his ever being there to hide his failure.

-Lex uses his scientific genius to become a billionaire and creates Lexcorp, with Metropolis as his base of operations. Lex extends his power further and further until most of Metropolis is owned and operated primarily by Lexcorp, either officially or unofficially.

-Clark arrives in Metropolis and debuts as Superman by foiling one of Lex's schemes. Lex vows to destroy Superman for replacing him as the most powerful man in Metropolis.

-Superman & Luthor battle for years and years, with Luthor always managing to keep himself in the clear legally. All this culminates when Luthor gets himself elected President but goes insane thanks to Alex Luthor's existence messing with his brain.

-Luthor finally drops the pretence of being a simple, law-abiding businessman and openly declares war upon Superman, becoming an international fugitive and the world's greatest criminal mastermind.

[brundlefly]

As for the Smallville thing, I think that will be mentioned or ignored depending on the writer.

I think that's the biggest truth to Lex's mix-and-match post BIRTHRIGHT/IC origin fiddlings. Take a look at Azzarello's LEX LUTHOR MAN OF STEEL (which came out post-BIRTHRIGHT) or Verheiden's current SUPERMAN/BATMAN (post-IC), both of which had no interest in using any of the 'hung out with Clark in Smallville' or 'fugitive mad scientist' business in their portrayals of Lex, preferring instead the LexCorp CEO, former US President smooth manipulator interpretation. It seems to be up to the individual writer at the moment, much the same way Bizarro, Braniac, and some other Supes' rogues have been portrayed differently in past years depending on whose writing them.

Your linear timeline for Lex's muddled post-IC origins looks very coherent and logical, Bored. I'll only add on to the last entry:

-Luthor finally drops the pretence of being a simple, law-abiding businessman and openly declares war upon Superman, becoming an international fugitive and the world's greatest criminal mastermind.

LexCorp is to Lex as Latveria is to Marvel's Dr. Doom; it's his throne. He's often "deposed," much like Doom often is, but it's inevitable that he'll pull the wool over the eyes of the justice system/general public, clear himself of any criminal charges, and then regain control of his company, since his public image of self-made man/philanthropist/role model to the world is so important to his ego (shows why he's a better man than Superman and that Metropolis should look up to him instead of Supes, etc.). The fact that DC hasn't dismantled LexCorp altogether post-UP UP AND AWAY (instead just sliding Lara in as a placeholder CEO) only further confirms that inevitability. Though I do hope we get some good stories out of Lex's current fugitive "Bond Villain" status in the meantime.

[Buried Alien]

Bored's layout of Luthor's possible current continuity works pretty well.

I wonder if that late 80s/early 90s phase where Luthor "died" of cancer and was replaced by his younger "son" (actually his clone) is still in continuity. Much of that part of Luthor's Post-COIE history is tied in with the Matrix Supergirl (not to be confused with the Linda Danvers Supergirl), who is no longer in continuity.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[brundlefly]

Probably still in contuity (otherwise Lex would be older/fatter, like the Byrne era and his last appearances before faking his death), but I doubt we'll ever see it referenced due to all the "Matrix Supergirl didn't exist" business. Although Original Lex Masquerading As Lex II and Matrix Supergirl were both in effect when Doomsday and Reign of the Superman happened. Does that mean those stories are now not in canon or cannot be referenced because elements of them "didn't ever happen" according to the head office? :confused: Or are we now supposed to, when rereading them, pretend that Supergirl isn't there and that Lex is bald?

Oh, the headaches of unnecessary retcons....

[Tony Starkz]

There was an interview a while back someone posted at Newsarama.

I think it was someone in editorial,but they stated that Birthright is still the definitive origin of Superman and the parts about Lex are still in continuity.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Just a year or so before INFINITE CRISIS, Mark Waid's BIRTHRIGHT established a new origin for Lex Luthor that had some similarities with that of the Silver/Bronze Age Luthor. Despite this new origin, however, Luthor was still characterized in current comics as the Post-COIE Luthor established by John Byrne in 1986. Luthor has a history as a corporate mogul and former President of the U.S. He also, however, seems to have a history as the purple/green bodysuit/battlearmor-wearing Luthor of Pre-COIE continuity. Does Luthor's past now contain elements of both his Silver/Bronze Age "mad scientist" configuration *and* his Modern Age corporate mogul configuration?

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I think so. Birthright established Luthor as a goddamn genius scientist, a la his Silver Age version. AND also established him as the LexCorp CEO. Furthermore, we haven't seen anything that tells us that something about that has changed. Birthright only added the genius scientist component. The rest stays.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Probably still in contuity (otherwise Lex would be older/fatter, like the Byrne era and his last appearances before faking his death), but I doubt we'll ever see it referenced due to all the "Matrix Supergirl didn't exist" business. Although Original Lex Masquerading As Lex II and Matrix Supergirl were both in effect when Doomsday and Reign of the Superman happened. Does that mean those stories are now not in canon or cannot be referenced because elements of them "didn't ever happen" according to the head office? :confused: Or are we now supposed to, when rereading them, pretend that Supergirl isn't there and that Lex is bald?

Oh, the headaches of unnecessary retcons....

Let's trust in DC, OK? They said they'll clear everything up. :rolleyes:

Yes, I'm being sarcastic. Although my guess is that DC will have no choice but to put some order.

[brundlefly]

Let's trust in DC, OK? They said they'll clear everything up. :rolleyes:


Heh.

Frankly, I like the BIRTHRIGHT concept, where Lex is concerned, of combining all the elements that made the Silver Age, MAN OF STEEL, and other versions of the character great (and for that matter, Byrne-era Lex was a genius, as well, but that aspect just got downplayed in favor of wealth and manipulation being his main strengths). So post-BIRTHRIGHT/IC, Lex is now the "world's smartest man" and a legendary business & financial genius in addition to being a Machiavellian manipulator and a former US President. Not a bad resume. I don't care for the "oh, and he spent some time in Smallville now, too, so that we can try to tie the comics into the TV show" add-on, but that seems to get so rarely referenced that it doesn't matter much.

I just don't see the need to whimsically decree that this-or-that story "never happened" or character "never existed" (and in interviews, not even in the pages of the comics themselves) instead of going the easier route of just not referencing that period (much like Marvel does with, say, Spidey's clone saga) instead. Random story/character 'erasues' for no good reason are one of the reasons DC continuity gets so much flak for being muddled and confusing. Did it really add so much more to the current Supergirl's character to declare that the previous one "never existed?" I don't think so.

[J. Robb]

I just don't see the need to whimsically decree that this-or-that story "never happened" or character "never existed" (and in interviews, not even in the pages of the comics themselves) instead of going the easier route of just not referencing that period (much like Marvel does with, say, Spidey's clone saga) instead. Random story/character 'erasues' for no good reason are one of the reasons DC continuity gets so much flak for being muddled and confusing. Did it really add so much more to the current Supergirl's character to declare that the previous one "never existed?" I don't think so.
I agree, and if creative teams would concern themselves more with writing new stories and focusing on moving forward instead of always tinkering with the past, we wouldn't have to have these discussions. We'd know what happened in the past just by reading back issues.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Heh.

Frankly, I like the BIRTHRIGHT concept, where Lex is concerned, of combining all the elements that made the Silver Age, MAN OF STEEL, and other versions of the character great (and for that matter, Byrne-era Lex was a genius, as well, but that aspect just got downplayed in favor of wealth and manipulation being his main strengths). So post-BIRTHRIGHT/IC, Lex is now the "world's smartest man" and a legendary business & financial genius in addition to being a Machiavellian manipulator and a former US President. Not a bad resume. I don't care for the "oh, and he spent some time in Smallville now, too, so that we can try to tie the comics into the TV show" add-on, but that seems to get so rarely referenced that it doesn't matter much.

Agreed. The character that resulted from that blend is the Lex Luthor I want to see. And yes, the time Lex spent in Smallville, as a nod to the old Pre-Crisis days, is nothing more than that.

I just don't see the need to whimsically decree that this-or-that story "never happened" or character "never existed" (and in interviews, not even in the pages of the comics themselves) instead of going the easier route of just not referencing that period (much like Marvel does with, say, Spidey's clone saga) instead. Random story/character 'erasues' for no good reason are one of the reasons DC continuity gets so much flak for being muddled and confusing. Did it really add so much more to the current Supergirl's character to declare that the previous one "never existed?" I don't think so.

Agreed (although I didn't know that the "non-existence" of Linda Danvers was official). Retcons over retcons do nothing.

[dupersuper]

I've read nothing but complaints about dc's attempt to retcon Matrix out...I hope Dan Didio & co. read these boards...

[Buried Alien]

I've read nothing but complaints about dc's attempt to retcon Matrix out...I hope Dan Didio & co. read these boards...

I don't think too many people give a hoot about *Matrix*, but there are many fans who don't want the related, but distinct Linda Danvers character to disappear into the ether.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[dupersuper]

Not to mention all the related headaches in retconning all the many, many stories Matrix then Linda/Matrix were in...:mad:

[karasu]

If Lex gets his genius back, which he has, I want Superman to be intelligent again too.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

If Lex gets his genius back, which he has, I want Superman to be intelligent again too.

Done and done. The recent "Up, Up & Away" storyline that ran through Action & Superman re-established both Luthor's genius credentials and Superman's long forgotten Super-intelligence. His mind can once again process information and formulate solutions to problems at super-human levels.

[Buried Alien]

Done and done. The recent "Up, Up & Away" storyline that ran through Action & Superman re-established both Luthor's genius credentials and Superman's long forgotten Super-intelligence. His mind can once again process information and formulate solutions to problems at super-human levels.

I wonder if that means we're going to start seeing Superman flying through the Fortress wearing a lab coat and carrying test tubes any time soon.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[brundlefly]

I don't think too many people give a hoot about *Matrix*, but there are many fans who don't want the related, but distinct Linda Danvers character to disappear into the ether.


Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I should have clarified "Matrix/Linda Danvers" Supergirl, I suppose. I liked the Linda Danvers character and really enjoyed PAD's Supergirl title. Trying to erase that character and series from DC continuity to somehow "enhance" Loeb's much inferior, cartoonish version of Supergirl is just foolish. And while Danvers was a much better and more developed Supergirl from where that character started out, I do have a fondness for the initial 'Matrix' version in her role as Lex's arm-candy concubine/bodyguard. :D

[666MasterOfPuppets]

I wonder if that means we're going to start seeing Superman flying through the Fortress wearing a lab coat and carrying test tubes any time soon.

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

I hope so. Morrison has shown that aspect very well in All-Star Superman.

[Super Buddies Forever]

I liked the Linda Danvers character and really enjoyed PAD's Supergirl title. Trying to erase that character and series from DC continuity to somehow "enhance" Loeb's much inferior, cartoonish version of Supergirl is just foolish. And while Danvers was a much better and more developed Supergirl from where that character started out, I do have a fondness for the initial 'Matrix' version in her role as Lex's arm-candy concubine/bodyguard.

Here, here! If anything, having Matrix/Linda Danvers remain in continuity would add at least some level of storytelling interest to the current Supergirl. We've never seen her deal with the fact that she's a new Supergirl when there was a beloved Supergirl already running around the DCU for the entirity of the 1990's. That way she'd have to be working hard to EARN the moniker instead of being accepted by everyone just because she's Kara Zor-El (which should mean nothing to the denizens of the DCU).

[J. Robb]

Done and done. The recent "Up, Up & Away" storyline that ran through Action & Superman re-established both Luthor's genius credentials and Superman's long forgotten Super-intelligence. His mind can once again process information and formulate solutions to problems at super-human levels.
And yet he doesn't seem too bothered by his malfunctioning powers. He needs some Super-Common Sense, too. ;)

[Buried Alien]

That way she'd have to be working hard to EARN the moniker instead of being accepted by everyone just because she's Kara Zor-El (which should mean nothing to the denizens of the DCU).

She's *a* Kara Zor-El, but she's a distinct character from the Silver/Bronze Age Kara Zor-El that died in battle against the Anti-Monitor in CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS. I'd really like to see an explanation of the difference between the two, especially from beings who are familiar with both versions (i.e. Donna Troy, Power Girl, and probably the Monitors).

Buried Alien (The Fastest Post Alive!)

[Bored at 3:00AM]

And yet he doesn't seem too bothered by his malfunctioning powers. He needs some Super-Common Sense, too. ;)

Malfunctioning powers? You mean during Up, Up & Away? That was just a by product of his powers returning to full strength. They're all back now, aren't they?

[J. Robb]

Malfunctioning powers? You mean during Up, Up & Away? That was just a by product of his powers returning to full strength. They're all back now, aren't they?
The problem with disrupting electronics has been mentioned since "Up, Up & Away", I remember it being mentioned when Superman escaped the Auctioneer's "prison wall", and I'm pretty sure another time, I'd have to go through the books. Where's Professor Hamilton when you need him?

[666MasterOfPuppets]

The problem with disrupting electronics has been mentioned since "Up, Up & Away", I remember it being mentioned when Superman escaped the Auctioneer's "prison wall", and I'm pretty sure another time, I'd have to go through the books. Where's Professor Hamilton when you need him?

Well, isn't he at Stryker's? ;)

I don't see the electronics disruption part as a malfunctioning. Actually, I think it's kinda cool.

[666MasterOfPuppets]

Malfunctioning powers? You mean during Up, Up & Away? That was just a by product of his powers returning to full strength. They're all back now, aren't they?

Back and more powerful, it seems.