Characters That You Feel...

[Gail Simone]

...have never had their full potential reached?

What characters have you always felt COULD be cooler than they are, but for whatever reason, never seemed to make that leap?

For me, one of them was Taskmaster. Now, don't get mad, I haven't read his recent appearances yet, and I hadn't read most of his OLD appearances, either. But something about the guy just screamed potential to me and he's one of the things I miss most about Agent X.


Who else?

Gail

[Agent Helix]

The Vulture.

Yeah, I'm serious.

Here's an old man that dresses up like a carrion bird in order to get his kicks. There's a lot of untapped psychology there that's never been adressed. Considering he's also one of the only honest-to-god elderly supervillains (not just old, because most of those guys are technically immortal), that's never been really addressed (aside from one somewhat great story in Spectacular I remember from when I was a wee lad, called "Funeral Arrangements", I think).

[NickThompson]

Gambit
Bishop


Both of these could work so much better if they weren't just another X-Man. See District-X, for example.

[JeffreyWKramer]

The Shroud....

[Karl J. Barnes]

Kazar..I liked some of this characters stories, but I kept wishing for a more pulp-like version. Maybe Warren Ellis could give him the Planetary treatment?

[Karl J. Barnes]

The Shroud....

Yeah, he could've been the 70's version of the Shadow. Marvel really dropped the ball with this character though he did have some impressive characterization in Ms. Marvel's Civil War tie ins.

[Karl J. Barnes]

...have never had their full potential reached?

What characters have you always felt COULD be cooler than they are, but for whatever reason, never seemed to make that leap?

For me, one of them was Taskmaster. Now, don't get mad, I haven't read his recent appearances yet, and I hadn't read most of his OLD appearances, either. But something about the guy just screamed potential to me and he's one of the things I miss most about Agent X.


Who else?

Gail

Never warmed up to Taskmaster, he came across as too "Deus Ex Machina"-like. Now he could have been cool with a little more characterization, some in-depth background story, but he always comes off as some After School Special bully than a villian.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Gambit
Bishop


Both of these could work so much better if they weren't just another X-Man. See District-X, for example.

Agreed with Bishop. I really started liking the guy in District X, but that went all kablooey with "House of M". Actually would have thought that Gambit(away from Rogue(sp?)) and in District X with Bishop would have been a bright move.

[DuelaDent]

Gypsy (no offense but everywhere she goes, she's a supporting character)
Nightshade (really started to take off in Suicide Squad; has had her own identity crisis in every appearance afterwards)
Geo-Force (Terra seems to be popular, but her older brother not so much)
Halo
Looker (a telepathic vampire...come on! :D )
Damage (everytime he gets built up, he gets torn back down)
Risk (had potential, until becoming a petty thief and then losing his arm...maybe Titans East will do something for him)
Lilith (Worst. Death. Ever.)
Chronos
Dr. Trap (the guy who killed Chase's father and the rest of the Justice Experience...there's still a lot of story left to be told)

[The Fury]

Toad. A once lacky that is now a genious in electronics that is still treated in comics as a lacky. I think some writer needs to explore his character a bit more instead of having him as a side character all the time. He's done alot and been around a long time.

Also most of his recent appearences and events need to be explored more, I think, his involvement in the Xorneto thing, and HoM most dominatly (HoM he was on the island to start with, got what he wanted in HoM, was awoken and was there at the end...basically he should know what happened).

...Never going to happen though.

[the4thpip]

The Human Cannonball from the old Lois Lane stories.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Looker (a telepathic vampire...come on! :D )



Yeah, I could see her character going a darker route than being just a superheroine.

[areacode212]

I thought Yelena Belova (the new Black Widow) had pretty good potential, and lately I've been kind of bitter about her being killed off so soon after she was created. Natasha doesn't do any actual spying for Russia anymore, and it's not like Marvel has a surplus of espionage characters, so why not keep her around as a semi-antagonist character, say, for when Marvel decides to publish a Checkmate-type book? Hell, Russian spies are back in the news, and she might even work well in a book like Union Jack.

Instead, she showed up in New Avengers working for S.H.I.E.L.D. (wtf?), then got turned into...the Super-Adaptoid (WTF?!?) for a single story. It's like everything that made her interesting got stripped away just to provide the Avengers with some lame villain. Hopefully someone like Brubaker brings her back and explains that the Super-Adaptoid was just some clone or LMD or something.

[siuntres]

Bloodhound-Dan Jolley's DC series should have been allowed to keep going.

Freddy Freeman-but DC seems to be addressing that.

The Guardian (Jim Harper)- should've been another great man out of time character, but too many convoluted recons have screwed him up , including currently being a baby.

Most Golden age characters- I don't see why both comapnies don't tell more ww2 era stories taking advantage of today's quality writers and artists. Take these cyphers and make three dimensional characters.

[BcAugust]

Hannibal King

Seriously, a vampire detective that thinks of himself as Sam Spade, good at his job, who always gets the cases of the dark side of Marvel. The fact he's only been in team books(most of which were great, but didn't let him get a fair amount of exposure), hurts.

[NickThompson]

Toad. A once lacky that is now a genious in electronics that is still treated in comics as a lacky. I think some writer needs to explore his character a bit more instead of having him as a side character all the time. He's done alot and been around a long time.

Also most of his recent appearences and events need to be explored more, I think, his involvement in the Xorneto thing, and HoM most dominatly (HoM he was on the island to start with, got what he wanted in HoM, was awoken and was there at the end...basically he should know what happened).

...Never going to happen though.

I like the way Toad is going, so I hope we see more of him.

[Hybrid2]

Love what Gail did to Taskmaster.
minor complaint about the costume.but the characterization was awsome.
I heard some love what was done in Moonknight.
I did'nt.
Dont like to see him cry and whine when a broken Moonknight start to fight back.

Hanibal King.
Loved that storie he had a while back.Journey into mistery.i think.or Marvel Universe.

Hybrid
The guy with 4 symbiotes.Toxic,that showed up lately is a sad ripoff.


Virtue.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethan_Edwards
The True Marvel Superman.
Not that lamur Sentry.

[sk716]

Spoiler. Too late now, though.

[jlg1]

Pantha (her death was as bad as Lilith's, if not worse - if just because of the over-the-top gore and extra panel) had a great deal of potential that was junked for cannon fodder and for the Event Villain's tragedy and story. You'd think they could at least finish her origin before killing her off. She was a great, strong woman hero, and was unique compared to other heroines. Unlike Miss Martian or Starfire or Tigra, she didn't have acceptable, attractive form. She had a monstrous form, and artists really did draw her ugly and accentuated that part of her. She had to use her mask and uniform to fit in the best she could. She bucked gender roles, too. She never really took to a maternal role for Baby Wildebeest. She didn't mope or be meek, she was active, she was angry. Her overcoming all the pain and tragedy of being under the Wildebeest's experiments could've been a really moving story (as the only witness of the Wildebeests' horrors, it seems really wrong that her story never was revealed). Her family with Baby Wildebeest and Red Star was dysfunctional fun, and touching that wildly different personalities and backgrounds could come together.

Marrow was another character, I think, never had her potential realized, either. Like Pantha, she could look ugly and monstrous. I always thought that she had an interesting background, especially in comparison to other mutants. Her people were victims of, arguably, mutant ethnic cleansing and she had to deal with that trauma in a particularly hostile upbringing. Not to mention that she practically had to become a child soldier to survive and be accepted. Her powers also had interesting potential, like how she has to deal with pain and deformities to use them. Hopefully Mike Marts' statement about her being depowered wasn't true, but her being an advocate and spokesperson for the Morlocks is a neat idea, actually.

Spoiler. Too late now, though.

They always say death in comics can always be undone...

[Grazzt]

Spoiler. Too late now, though.

We're talking about comic book characters. It's never too late.

[NickThompson]

Agreed with Bishop. I really started liking the guy in District X, but that went all kablooey with "House of M". Actually would have thought that Gambit(away from Rogue(sp?)) and in District X with Bishop would have been a bright move.

I think Gambit could work well in X-Factor too.

[Starba]

I have to agree with Spoiler. She had a lot of exposure in Robin and Batgirl, but I think she at least needed her own miniseries or something before kicking the bucket. Not to mention she died in a crossover that directly contradicted everything her story ever stood for.

As far as Pantha, she may be unique to female characters, but I always thought she was a pretty blatant rip-off of Wolverine. ymmv, though.

Who else? Hmm...I'll add Obsidian to the pot, especially now that editorial mandate has aborted all the good things that were happening for him in Manhunter. Now that he's in a pretty huge team (and not even a primary member), I don't think we'll be seeing much in the way of stories focused on him. Shame.

[sk716]

We're talking about comic book characters. It's never too late.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i194/sk716/spolier-robin.jpg
Stephanie Brown isn't making a return without a Lazarus pit and that wouldn't be any good either.

[The Fury]

I like the way Toad is going, so I hope we see more of him.

Toad has had some good screne time lately but not stuff worthy of him. In the whole Xorneto thing he seemed oddly evil. After he was on Genosha and didn't recognise Magneto (which was odd). Then during HoM he out of all the heroes (if they could so be called in that story) was probably the only one except Mystique who would side with Magneto yet he was with the good guys this time (again odd). There is much more of his character to be explored yet probably won't.

I'd love to write a Toad mini. :D

[Starba]

sk716: Not necessarily. There have been arguments that it would be possible for Leslie Thompkins to have faked Steph's death and convinced her to hang up her cape to live a normal life. That would kill a bunch of bad birds with one stone. It would also explain why there's no Steph Robin memorial in the Batcave if Bruce later got in on the conspiracy off panel and tacitly agreed to go along with it.

It can be done.

[palaeomerus]

Lilith (Worst. Death. Ever.)




Teen Titans Lilith (superman robot) or Lilith Daughter of Dracula(Montesi formula)?

[palaeomerus]

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i194/sk716/spolier-robin.jpg
Stephanie Brown isn't making a return without a Lazarus pit and that wouldn't be any good either.

Since it's already bug-$#@% I say ignore the Lazarus pit angle entirely. I recommend that she wake up in a specimen tube on Apokolips implanted with Intergang "resurrection circuitry" that slowly rewrites her personality into a tool of Darkseid. They are are later removed by Mr. Miracle (after she manages to stop herself from killing Batman) and she can resume being a third string backgrounder with somehwat enhanced abilities and lots of post death/post apokolips agnst for the teenagers to drool over. Eventually she might even take down the wayward Cassandra Cain and get some post "society of assassins sera" redemption going.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Since it's already bug-$#@% I say ignore the Lazarus pit angle entirely. I recommend that she wake up in a specimen tube on Apokolips implanted with Intergang "resurrection circuitry" that slowly rewrites her personality into a tool of Darkseid. They are are later removed by Mr. Miracle (after she manages to stop herself from killing Batman) and she can resume being a third string backgrounder with somehwat enhanced abilities and lots of post death/post apokolips agnst for the teenagers to drool over. Eventually she might even take down the wayward Cassandra Cain and get some post "society of assassins sera" redemption going.

Actually like this idea.

[siuntres]

How about most supporting characters that have been created in the last 15 years?

Gail's good about letting the ordinary (non -powerful) people in her books live and be interesting characters without putting a mask on...

but unless your name is Lois , Aunt May, Jimmy, Jarvis or Alfred , there are tons of "side characters" who get created, and forgotten pretty fast.

[DuelaDent]

Teen Titans Lilith (superman robot) or Lilith Daughter of Dracula(Montesi formula)?

Teen Titans Lilith. If used correctly, she could have been a pretty decent supporting character popping up around the DCU (like Madame Xanadu), and eventually given a shot to shine on her own.

[jlg1]

As far as Pantha, she may be unique to female characters, but I always thought she was a pretty blatant rip-off of Wolverine. ymmv, though.

Well, grumpy, snarky, tough attitude sure. But if Pantha is still unique to female characters, I don't see why she has to be condemned as a "rip-off." It's still a nice change of things, and she's more original than all the new 52 and OYL Titans ;). Maybe if that whole thing about Wolverine being transformed from an actual wolverine played out and made it in the books, there'd be a stronger case.

But I think there are crucial things in her character and backstory that do make her different from Wolverine. For one thing, that she does look like a monster. Wolverine can take off his costume and still look human and attractive and go out among society. Pantha doesn't have that option, she has to hide behind her mask to fit in. I think it's interesting to switch around the dynamic - usually normal people become outsiders by putting on a costume, Pantha's best bet at fitting in is her costume. And even then, she's still going to be an outsider in both worlds.

Even if both were scientific experiments, that's a common device anyway. My knowledge of Wolverine's Weapon X origin is fuzzy, but I think Pantha's treatment was much worse. Wolverine wasn't altered, I think, as much as Pantha was. She wasn't part of a First World government's experiment, but an independent group with a very questionable attitude towards human rights. She saw other people dying and being treated in horrific ways (http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/9086/nt757ut9.jpg), and was tied down and experimented on in horrific ways too. And her bestial side is actually pretty bestial - she prowled and ate a bird once. Wolverine, it can be argued, is just cliched male rage. The whole cat-or-human-origin question was, I thought, a real interesting one that raised a lot of issues, tougher than the question of CloneKon's soul (he's a clone of Superman and Luthor and looks like a perfectly relatable human being, of course he's going to have a soul!) and currently being ripped-off for 52's Sobek. :p

The family aspect, too, is a big difference. And while I think saddling her with a kid and family was trying to soften and "deemphasize" her character (a la that List of Do's that made the blog rounds from a while back), it turned out pretty well for her character. Wolverine's never going to "settle down," he's that kind of male action hero who must always be alone for various reasons. Pantha's not going to and shouldn't become a stereotypical maternal housewife (she thankfully resisted becoming that throughout the whole thing), but the dysfunctional family gives an interesting twist and development on Pantha's type of character (Wolverine-type or not), and allows for interesting stories.

And I agree with other's that there's always ways to bring back Steph. I mean, Jericho managed to come back, even after being corrupted and stabbed from behind by Deathstroke.

[DuelaDent]

sk716: Not necessarily. There have been arguments that it would be possible for Leslie Thompkins to have faked Steph's death and convinced her to hang up her cape to live a normal life. That would kill a bunch of bad birds with one stone. It would also explain why there's no Steph Robin memorial in the Batcave if Bruce later got in on the conspiracy off panel and tacitly agreed to go along with it.

It can be done.

Didn't Gail show Stephanie Brown's corpse in the morgue in a recent issue of BoP? I guess it could have been a fake body, or some random Jane Doe with a toe tag.

[ElvisGuy]

This is easy..Lilith.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y38/Gnrationfo/Lilithperez.jpg

[TomStillwell]

Cyborg. Really.

[ChthonicSpirit]

The original Brotherhood of Dada . . . Awesome for one story arc, then they get trapped inside a painting. I dunno, maybe they would have gotten diluted with time, but I would've like to see more of them all the same.

I also vote for Pantha. Never fully explored, then handed an irrelevant, useless death.

[shanejayell]

Victoria Montesi of "Darkhold"

A lesbian carrying a demonic child... the ways this could be played with are LEGION.

[Night Swordsman]

First,my serious reply: Will O' The Wisp. He was NEVER a VILLAN,thou he had issues and came against Spidey alot. I still have NO CLUE why he was treated like a standard Spidey hating villan in recent Spetacular Spider-man storyline(and thats a BAD sign the writer REALLY didn't bother with his homework...oh! 70's Spidey Villans...throw ol' Will in there). Just sloppy homework,as he easily could of become a hero.


Now..Since Gail was in the CSI Comic,however briefly,does this mean that her character has yet to reach its full potential?

Bat-Gail!
SuperGail!
Spider-Gail!
DeadPoolGail!
and when she is finally ready to retire...
TranquilityGail!!

Oh COME ON! Tell me you NEVER thought of it! :p

[Red Jack]

Tyroc. I've been on this kick for years. The execution of the character was poor (lots of shouting, undefined powers, silly chip on shoulder, etc.)- clear 1970's tokenism at best, but, man, would I love a crack at implementing my fix. there is cool in there.

Gypsy. There's nothing specifically wrong with her. I don't even mind the Martian connection but there's more to be mined. Lots and lots more.

Forever People. DEAR GOD would I love to get my hands on them.

Thundra and the Femizons. There's got to be more there than boobs, man-hating and slapping people around.

Never happen though. Never ever.

[EspanolBot]

Cass
Steph
Mr Freeze - admittedly, having him lug his frozen wife around everwhere like he kind of did in BTAS is unrealistic, but in contrast to the animated version of the character the comicbook version of Mr Freeze seemed a bit hollow.

[Matt Linton]

I have to go with Longshot. Outside of the original miniseries the character's just been a mess. This quote from Wiki sums up the potential that Longshot has:

The character of Longshot was created by a desire from Ann Nocenti to portray a perfect being in an imperfect world. It was her opinion that this would necessitate that Longshot be a "tabula rasa" or blank slate consisting of no memories of his own. The limitation on Longshot's powers that he must always do what he believes is right and his confusion regarding these complex issues fill the bulk of this work.

[Gozwald73]

Marij'n


Estranged wife of Garryn Bek
Romantically involved with Captain Comet
Participant in love triangle (refer points above)
Membership in prominent DC space team (L.E.G.I.O.N.)
Genius mind
Expert Genetics/Xenobiology/Medicine
Mob Princess to the ex-leader of a Drug-world!
Possessed by the Emerald Eye of Ekron for a short time
Good lucks and sleek costume
Combat training
Has overcome obesity through perseverance, continuing to tackle food-reliance issues


There is more, but that'll do for now
:)

[Cam63]

Any Australian character in DC and Marvel comics.

[Red Jack]

How about most supporting characters that have been created in the last 15 years?

Dylan from MANHUNTER.

[siuntres]

Dylan from MANHUNTER.

I like Dylan, and hope he has a future beyond this series.

Rene Montoya and Harvey Bullock have survived so far, so has Maggie Sawyer

[PatrickG]

...
Who else?

Gail

You may laugh but...

1) Superman. I don't think a halfway definitive story has been told. Not a definitive modern story. Not a definitive origin. Not a definitive childhood account or college years account.

A lot of good stories have been told. But I don't think any purely Superman story has reached its full potential.

And that goes triple for Supergirl.

2) X-Men. You heard me right. X-Men. How much lip service is paid to the idea of helping a world that hates and fears them? And instead, how much time is spent on time travel and aliens and traitors and love triangles? Plenty of good stories. Plenty of interesting stories and interesting tangents. But the base concept has never been mined for more than background in a story arc. Every writer comes very close but never really manages to take the mallet and ring the bell.

Shooting for the more obscure...

3) Triumph. (Moon Maiden, for that matter.) Never has more work been put into a character dreamed up by so many people gone nowhere. Sentry is more realized and only because his power levels are more realized.

4) Kang. What makes him different than Dr. Doom? The Immortus thing is interesting. If anybody took Kang to his potential, it was Busiek and I think there's much more untapped there.

And for the laundry list...

Barbara Gordon Batgirl, Damage, Dial "H" for Hero, Doctor Fate, Barry Allen Flash, Alan Scott Green Lantern, Hawkman, Guardians of the Galaxy, Hawkeye, Huntress, Kid Eternity, Moon Knight, Nightwing, The Power of Shazam, The Ray, Scarlet Spider, Silver Surfer, Conner Kent Superboy, Thor, Tomorrow Woman, Wonder Man.

Now to flip this question around, characters who I think HAVE had stories that reached their full potential:

Animal Man. (Morrison.)

Batman. (Various.)

Deadpool. (At least one arc of every regular team to work on the character.)

Fantastic Four. (Particularly Lee/Kirby and Walt Simonson. Waid came very close.)

Wally West Flash. (Waid.)

Green Arrow. (Various.)

JLA. (Rock of Ages.)

Legion of Super-Heroes. (Paul Levitz.)

Spider-man. (Various.)

Snapper Carr. (Tom Peyer's HOURMAN)

Wolverine. (Various.)

[FantomasPR]

Oracle, seriously. I think that the full potential of an information broker willing to make her own rules for the greater good has yet to be realized.

I am also astounded that Remo Williams (The Destroyer) isn't a mega franchise yet. I would love to see DC get the rights for that series and have Chuck Dixon or Gail as writers.

[PatrickG]

Oh yeah...

Bizarro. The Crime Syndicate. Doctor Spectrum. Earth-2 Robin. Loose Cannon. The Red Bee.

[Constantine Drakon]

Spoiler, Pantha, Marrow, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, Cassandra Cain, Peacemaker, the other guys besides Juggernaut that got Juggernaut level powers...

I have to say, I liked Taskmaster best when he ran schools and didn't do mercenary work himself. He came off really smart staying away from the dangerous stuff and making a living behind the scenes. Once he started mercenary work on a regular basis he lost a lot of his charm.

[Constantine Drakon]

Oh, and

Clock King from Batman the Animated series... should be in the books.

Same with Animated Toyman.

And some old crack Batman villains should be around. Gorilla Mob Boss. Mirror Man. Glass Man. Dr. Double X.

[NickG]

Zinda Blake (Lady Blackhawk), I don't know I just feel there is more there to the character, maybe I just gotta wait on this one though.

Jack T. Chance - Underused Green Lantern character, GL as a detective=very cool.

[Shades0077]

Chamber from Generation X.

I remember one comic where another Gen X'er, Synch, whose ability was to copy other mutants' powers and use them to their full potential, borrowed Chamber's power. The things he did were pretty slick, like funneling the psionic energy downward so that he could fly. But even after seeing this, Chamber never tried it on his own or anything.

And now he's depowered as a result of M-Day, so I guess he never will.

[Shades0077]

4) Kang. What makes him different than Dr. Doom? The Immortus thing is interesting. If anybody took Kang to his potential, it was Busiek and I think there's much more untapped there.

Do you read Young Avengers?

The first story arc or two has some interesting Kang stuff going on.

[Damo]

...Egg Fu? *Ducks.*

[Karl J. Barnes]

I've got one for supportting characters: Sharon Carter. She's suppose to be this hot shot super spy,but I really don't buy it. I'd like to see her not swooning over Cap so much.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Also , I'd like to see more of the new Crimson Avenger. I thought her introduction was intriguing and then she just disappeared.

[PatrickG]

Do you read Young Avengers?

The first story arc or two has some interesting Kang stuff going on.

Need to get caught up on that run. But I've heard the twist and it sounds nifty. But I want more to Kang than just Kang vs. Kang fights, which we've had for... Thirty years now?

[Matt Linton]

You may laugh but...

1) Superman. I don't think a halfway definitive story has been told. Not a definitive modern story. Not a definitive origin. Not a definitive childhood account or college years account.

A lot of good stories have been told. But I don't think any purely Superman story has reached its full potential.

And that goes triple for Supergirl.

2) X-Men. You heard me right. X-Men. How much lip service is paid to the idea of helping a world that hates and fears them? And instead, how much time is spent on time travel and aliens and traitors and love triangles? Plenty of good stories. Plenty of interesting stories and interesting tangents. But the base concept has never been mined for more than background in a story arc. Every writer comes very close but never really manages to take the mallet and ring the bell.


I mostly agree about Superman, though SECRET IDENTITY by Busiek and Immomen comes damn close, despite being an Elseworlds.

As for X-Men, I recommend the GOD LOVES, MAN KILLS graphic novel by Claremont and Brent Anderson (ASTRO CITY). Not to be confused with the sequel from X-TREME X-MEN.

[stealthwise]

Sleepwalker.

There's a ton of potential there, and not just in the "Morpheus-ripoff" way.

[Larry Dixon]

Sauron. Terrific potential there, a dynamite look, relegated to the "Who can we fill an issue with X-people fighting in a pinch" dustbin, and "Oh no! It's Sauron! SMASH-crumple!" walk-ons.

John Jameson AKA Man-Wolf. A guy who was darn heroic WITHOUT any super powers, whose rampages on Earth were because of the trickle-through energy from being a demigod in a pocket universe of swords-and-sorcery? Man, that's tasty potential there. Just following his life as an astronaut in the Marvel Universe would be cool enough, but add in the otherworldly high-magic stuff? I'm there.

(these last two, by the way, were in our Short List when Ruwan Juyatillake was asking Mercedes Lackey and me if we wanted to do something for Marvel)

Longshot of course. And not just so we can defend the beauty that is a mullet.

A second for The Vulture. I have always seen him as someone who'd be after anagathics and would take a long-term view of things, planning appropriately, though robbery would be his particular poor-impulse-control vice. He could be a rather wtisted Batman-figure, written right.

And of course the one that surprises nobody who knows me, Northwind. I mean, of all the characters that DC has had with untapped potential for whole new sorts of stories, this is the guy.

A halfbreed child from a closed-borders race, tolerated because his father is an outsider hero. Raised in their ways but tormented; defies his Chosen Destiny and strikes out into the world. A pacifist by choice, who refuses to fight if it can at all be helped, and uses nonlethal methods. Out-thinks situations instead of just plain smashing-and-maiming. Tested by the world he finds himself in, lost, trying to figure out how to fit in, and very smart on top of that. Returns to his people following a tragedy that, once again, forces them to relocate. Becomes a priest. Stays a priest. Is not seen or heard from again until a couple of decades later, where we find that for some reason he has shapechanged into a human-bird of prey creature with the symbol of Horus around his neck, and his people have changed to look the same.

Tragedies, transformations, struggle-with-the-duality, find-a-home-Moses angles, touched-by-divinity avatar of Horus stuff and a chance to show that peaceful solutions CAN be as satisfying to read as people blowin' shit up all the time. There are so many stories there, of the whos-and-whys, that he just aches to be in the right writer's hands.

[DungeonmasterJim]

Always loved the Taskmaster since I first saw him in the old Marvel Super-Heroes rpg game from the 1980's.

My pick though is Rachel Summers. Everyone keeps using the Days of Future Past as spin-off stories and whatnot but all ever any author seems to do with Rachel is link her to Jean Grey. Yes, I know Jean is her alternate reality mother but here we have this angst fill young woman with all these great tracking skills and more recently revealed stealth type skills. All we ever get is 'I miss my mom' or more linkage to the Phoenix history and retreads of Jean type stories which seem to do nothing more than justify Jean fans that say Rachel is nothing but a clone of Jean and that Rachel is about as popular as a clone. Even the current Uncanny X-Men story-arc has Rachel dealing with the Shi'ar and the Phoenix force.

(Ends rant)

DM Jim

[hellokittykat]

Wonder Woman

Nobody in the past ten or more years, has 'got' her. There are so many great ways to take this book to the next level that I can't understand why no one has been able to do it yet. I mean, this is Wonder Freakin' Woman!

[Karl J. Barnes]

John Jameson AKA Man-Wolf. A guy who was darn heroic WITHOUT any super powers, whose rampages on Earth were because of the trickle-through energy from being a demigod in a pocket universe of swords-and-sorcery? Man, that's tasty potential there. Just following his life as an astronaut in the Marvel Universe would be cool enough, but add in the otherworldly high-magic stuff? I'm there.

(these last two, by the way, were in our Short List when Ruwan Juyatillake was asking Mercedes Lackey and me if we wanted to do something for Marvel)





I remember a Marvel Spotlight(or whatever it was) back in 1980(I believe) that showcased Man-Wolf and thought that this could be another character that could have breached the super-heroic and supernatural, a kind of Were-Wolf By Night, type of series with elements of superheroism,supernatural and dark fantaasy.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Wonder Woman

Nobody in the past ten or more years, has 'got' her. There are so many great ways to take this book to the next level that I can't understand why no one has been able to do it yet. I mean, this is Wonder Freakin' Woman!

Yeah, there's been some good stories,but nothing consistent. It seemed that writer's were really hung up about who to hook her up with than really exploring the character.

[Damo]

Wonder Woman

Nobody in the past ten or more years, has 'got' her. There are so many great ways to take this book to the next level that I can't understand why no one has been able to do it yet. I mean, this is Wonder Freakin' Woman!

Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka.

WW's finally doing things up there on Superman's level, and the writer is pulled and replaced with one that depowers her entirely and can't get the book out.

Thanks DC.

[ducklord]

I'll toss in a few:

Extrano
He's a Dr. Fate/Strange-level mystic, and he's fabulously, flamingly gay. Whether you went campy or dead-on serious with this guy, it seems like there's a ton of storytelling potential here.

Harbinger
She was raised in satellite by a weird-looking cosmic peeping tom, for the sole purpose of being the savior of the universe. That's gotta mess a person up.

Wonder Woman
It's an easy answer, but it bears repeating. Although the Perez era did a wonderful job building up the mythological aspects of the character, I'm still waiting for a writer to do a modern take on the more whimsical elements in the WW mythos.

The Green Team
Disturbingly Wealthy Teenagers trying to make the world better through the Power of Money. It could almost be a Vertigo series.

Mike

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Its been over a decade but I'm gonna say the last one who really got Ollie was Mike Grell. In DC's attempts to expand Oliver into the mainstream DCU they lost what made him click.

Judd Winick has choked him off creatively and replaced him with a token " whatever I want " character. If he wants to be a ninja master now , Winick writes him that way. If he needs him to sleep with characters inside a story , Winick pushes him that way.

Theres no flow on Green Arrow. Its whatever suits the mind of Judd Winick and odds are its just horseshit.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka.

WW's finally doing things up there on Superman's level, and the writer is pulled and replaced with one that depowers her entirely and can't get the book out.

Thanks DC.

DC has really made some bad decisions on Wonder Woman. Rucka was kickin some serious behind on this title. He then gets yanked to do Diana Prince secret identity stories ? If GA is horseshit now , WW is fertilizer.

[Rob on the Job]

1) Paladin. This Marvel hero/anti-hero had an intriguing premise -- sometimes he'd be a good guy if it were in his interest, sometimes he wouldn't -- but he came in with a bang in the mid-1970s and then seemed to get stuck in neutral. He's the equivalent of a number-one draft pick who is a bust in the NFL.

2) Namor. I'm serious. No one since Bill Everett has gotten a firm hold on this guy, who was at his best in the years before WWII when he was threatening mankind out of anger/mischief.

3) Forager's Bug Colony of the Fourth World -- to me, the most fascinating thing Kirby did at DC.

[hellokittykat]

Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka.

WW's finally doing things up there on Superman's level, and the writer is pulled and replaced with one that depowers her entirely and can't get the book out.

Thanks DC.

Now I didn't like Rucka's run. I know a lot of people did, but it left me I was bored. The first year, the 'ambassador' year with WW writing that book and all of the 'uproar' was so dull to me.

Then when it was the 'warrior' year, the big fight (with the exception of the Superman Infinite Crisis thing) with Medusa left me cold as well. It was never really established that Medusa was such a formidable nemesis.

I didn't understand why WW had to blind herself either, but then Mr. Rucka explained that it was because Medusa's voice could compel someone to look at her. He admitted that it didn't interpret as well as he wanted.

I wish someone would write her as smart, strong and noble without making her seem so dour and depressed. Good grief-can't WW ever crack a smile much less dare to laugh?

And if there is one more story involving Paradise Island getting trashed I am going to flip. I think every writer has had this happen during their run.

[Cam63]

Paradise Island deserved being trashed.

'Damn uppity ****s wouldn't return curefreaks pms !

[The Xenos]

Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka Rucka.

WW's finally doing things up there on Superman's level, and the writer is pulled and replaced with one that depowers her entirely and can't get the book out.

Thanks DC.

Amen. I'm kicking myself for not getting on the book sooner. I also blame the whole Infinate Crisis bullshit. Then again, the Batman books were driven into total suck before it anyway. Meanwhile, Wonder Woman seemed to be derailed because of the event.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Now I didn't like Rucka's run. I know a lot of people did, but it left me I was bored. The first year, the 'ambassador' year with WW writing that book and all of the 'uproar' was so dull to me.

Then when it was the 'warrior' year, the big fight (with the exception of the Superman Infinite Crisis thing) with Medusa left me cold as well. It was never really established that Medusa was such a formidable nemesis.

I didn't understand why WW had to blind herself either, but then Mr. Rucka explained that it was because Medusa's voice could compel someone to look at her. He admitted that it didn't interpret as well as he wanted.

I wish someone would write her as smart, strong and noble without making her seem so dour and depressed. Good grief-can't WW ever crack a smile much less dare to laugh?

And if there is one more story involving Paradise Island getting trashed I am going to flip. I think every writer has had this happen during their run.

I don't remember George Perez trashing Paradise Island,sure there were some battles on the Isle,but no trashing that I can recall. Though I do agree that Diana is not a dour person and her humor and the love that she has should be shown more and more. Leave the dark and grim to Batman,it's what he does best.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Paradise Island deserved being trashed.

'Damn uppity ****s wouldn't return curefreaks pms !

Well, Curefreak was kind of freaky....

[titanfan]

Nightshade
Ice
Booster Gold :(
Most of the New Gods
Deadshot
Nightwing (One of the most mishandled characters over the past 30 years)
Geo Force & Terra
The DEO organization
The Hayoth

[Grazzt]

Nightwing (One of the most mishandled characters over the past 30 years)

Marv Wolfman is on his book right now. If Marv can't do it, I really don't think anyone can.

[Larry Dixon]

I'll toss in a few:

Extrano
He's a Dr. Fate/Strange-level mystic, and he's fabulously, flamingly gay. Whether you went campy or dead-on serious with this guy, it seems like there's a ton of storytelling potential here.

The Green Team
Disturbingly Wealthy Teenagers trying to make the world better through the Power of Money. It could almost be a Vertigo series.


Wow. I've never even heard of these folks. How fun! Green Team, hmmmm...

[brundlefly]

First,my serious reply: Will O' The Wisp. He was NEVER a VILLAN,thou he had issues and came against Spidey alot. I still have NO CLUE why he was treated like a standard Spidey hating villan in recent Spetacular Spider-man storyline(and thats a BAD sign the writer REALLY didn't bother with his homework...oh! 70's Spidey Villans...throw ol' Will in there). Just sloppy homework,as he easily could of become a hero.


Thank God somebody else noticed that, I was alone in my complaints in the Spidey forums about Will being written incorrectly in SSM as a dunderheaded villainous henchman. I got the feeling that the writer only looked at the "powers and abilities" section of Will's bio and skipped the "history" part.


Its whatever suits the mind of Judd Winick and odds are its just horseshit.

QFT, if one can take that to mean "whatever suits the mind of Judd Winnick is just horseshit."

Some great suggestions here already (Namor, Vulture, Yelena, etc.). I'll toss in:
Moses Magnum
Puma
Serpent Society
The Prowler
Chance (the merc/compulsive gambler from the Spidey books)
The Foreigner
The Charlatan
Aztek
Connor Hawke (his run as Green Arrow, that is)

[Nate Grey]

Nate Grey of course. I wonder if the writers spent too much time trying to make him not-Cable that by the time he found his niche it was too late. :(

DC wise? Batgirl of course.

[Indigo Al]

Turner D. Century and the White Rabbit. UMBRELLA power!

I wish they'd be part of Modok's 11.

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_oops/tdc/tdc1.jpg

http://www.joeacevedo.com/images/customzone/customcon/stephens2004/FrogManWhiteRabbit.jpg

[bfrank]

geo -force will never be "cool" until he gets rid of that name.....

Scott Free and Barda.....there's so much more they could be doing....hell, the new gods, in general....

[Red Jack]

Wow. I've never even heard of these folks. How fun! Green Team, hmmmm...


Extrano was part of a team of human "Guardians" created by an Oan male and Zamaron female. These guardians were, IIRC, meant to eventually take over for the origian; guardians of the universe.

The Green Team appeared in the short lived (but beautifully conceived) 1st Issue Special, one of many DC "tryout" anthology series for new or shakey concepts. I think they had a few issues of their own book but I could be wrong.

If we're looking at that, I'd take Kirby's ATLAS in a heartbeat and, of course, i forgot to mention my favorite mutant, Forge.

[blackcanary_416]

Jubilee, I liked her mini series but she just hasn't fallen into the hands of a good writer for her.

[Night Swordsman]

Thank God somebody else noticed that, I was alone in my complaints in the Spidey forums about Will being written incorrectly in SSM as a dunderheaded villainous henchman. I got the feeling that the writer only looked at the "powers and abilities" section of Will's bio and skipped the "history" part.


Nope. They also did this to Armadillo,who really DID NOT want to be a villan,and was going to prison to reform VOLUNTARILY. Yet the next time he shows up,die hard evil villan. I blame Marvel's EDITORS for being SLOPPY,and for Joe Q. using the "i wont let continuity come before a good story" defense.
I LIKE ALOT of what Joe has done for marvel,but DUH! Comics are SEQUENTIAL STORYTELLING. In SEQUENCE. Actions and reactions have consequences. People HAVE background. That's how you GIVE a damn about them. To have a writer not do his homework,have editors who are not DOING their JOB,and to have Joe DEFEND this tatic is just plain Horrible. Period. If your going to do a 180 or a 360 degree turn on a characters personality because that fits YOUR story,you better also give us the reasons BEHIND it.

Sorry...I'm NOT a stickler for continuity,but i am when it comes to a characters BEHAVIOR and CHARACTER,as that IS what we read about,ultimately.

[Night Swordsman]

Turner D. Century and the White Rabbit. UMBRELLA power!

I wish they'd be part of Modok's 11.

http://www.geocities.com/marvel_oops/tdc/tdc1.jpg

http://www.joeacevedo.com/images/customzone/customcon/stephens2004/FrogManWhiteRabbit.jpg

You need to read the Claws mini-series marvel recently did,The Black Cat/Wolverine team-up. Along with Linser's beautiful art,you get Arcade teaming up with the White Rabbit. Was fun!

[NickThompson]

Nope. They also did this to Armadillo,who really DID NOT want to be a villan,and was going to prison to reform VOLUNTARILY. Yet the next time he shows up,die hard evil villan. I blame Marvel's EDITORS for being SLOPPY,and for Joe Q. using the "i wont let continuity come before a good story" defense.
I LIKE ALOT of what Joe has done for marvel,but DUH! Comics are SEQUENTIAL STORYTELLING. In SEQUENCE. Actions and reactions have consequences. People HAVE background. That's how you GIVE a damn about them. To have a writer not do his homework,have editors who are not DOING their JOB,and to have Joe DEFEND this tatic is just plain Horrible. Period. If your going to do a 180 or a 360 degree turn on a characters personality because that fits YOUR story,you better also give us the reasons BEHIND it.

Sorry...I'm NOT a stickler for continuity,but i am when it comes to a characters BEHAVIOR and CHARACTER,as that IS what we read about,ultimately.

I don't think it's as easy as we think it is though. What, we expect a writer to read every single appearence of a character ever? After all, if he misses some he might just get the "out of character" appearences. Then we assume that editors have time to do more than edit, and act as some sort of all-knowing continuity guru as well.



Also, reguarding editors. Reading Essentials and looking at panels online, they do a lot better job than they used to :)

[Night Swordsman]

I don't think it's as easy as we think it is though. What, we expect a writer to read every single appearence of a character ever? After all, if he misses some he might just get the "out of character" appearences. Then we assume that editors have time to do more than edit, and act as some sort of all-knowing continuity guru as well.

Sigh. I disagree. Completely. Simple as that. I could GO into reasons,but it is NOT hard to do BACKGROUND research,especially if your the WRITER,on a character. Marvel and DC usually HELPS their writers from what i have been told,and there is also the Internet. To totally mismanage a character from extablished behavior is poor writing,not from the storytelling aspect,but from the point of KNOWING what your writing ABOUT. And that IS what is happening...more "out of character" appearances.

One last point..Spidey almost NEVER beats Will o' The Wisp,usually a stalemate or some such. Yet he goes down easily in Spectacular.

And Molten Man? HIS character was poorly used as well,considering how often he has gone to HELP Spidey from time to time.

This story got low marks from me,personally. Great art thou.

[shanejayell]

You need to read the Claws mini-series marvel recently did,The Black Cat/Wolverine team-up. Along with Linser's beautiful art,you get Arcade teaming up with the White Rabbit. Was fun!

Damn, I may have to get that. :)

I'd like more White Rabbit as a wacky villainess

[Night Swordsman]

Damn, I may have to get that. :)

I'd like more White Rabbit as a wacky villainess

Wait till you see the last panel in the last issue. I laughed! :p

[Froggy]

Moses magnum, last time in kurt busieks avengers he was...................alright

the ray, he needs a series again, taht series and impulse got me into comics. i was sad wehn there were no more new issues (was it canceled?)

[brundlefly]

I don't think it's as easy as we think it is though. What, we expect a writer to read every single appearence of a character ever? After all, if he misses some he might just get the "out of character" appearences. Then we assume that editors have time to do more than edit, and act as some sort of all-knowing continuity guru as well.


Not every single appearance of a character, but he should have a good grasp of a character's personality and general history. A quick glance at a Guide to the Marvel Univerise or Wikipedia entry for that matter doesn't take more than a minute (we're hardly talking about hours of research), but the SSM writer didn't even do that. He picked some older characters out of a hat, only made sure he had the names, powers, and physical appearances right, and then gave them (well, particulalry Will) standard "dumb henchman" personalities as their motivation. And yes, an editor who knew his business (i.e. Marvel characters and their history) should have caught that. That's his job. I'm not familiar with the Armadillo appearance Night Swordsman mentioned, but it sounds like pretty much the same thing. If you're too lazy to do the minimum amount of homework on a character before using him or her in your story, then just don't use them and come up with your own characters instead.

[Starba]

Marv Wolfman is on his book right now. If Marv can't do it, I really don't think anyone can.

I was really hoping so, but his first arc left me wanting. So I'm still waiting for a good Nightwing story.

And of course it goes without saying, but I'm also still waiting for a good Cassandra Cain story. Her series had way too much lackluster talent after the first creative team left. Anderson Gabrych really "got" the character, but his storylines and villains were a little too whimsical for such a dark and action-oriented title.

[Karl J. Barnes]

I think that a few on this thread wanted the Vulture's potential reached as a character, then I think, Friendly Neighborhood Spiderman #15 might be a start in the right direction.

[The Xenos]

I was just thinking the other day that Cassandra Cain may have made an excellent addition to the Minx line. Sure you could have the Batman connection and the whole superhero thing, but that wouldn't be the focus. The focus is on a teenaged girl trying to figure herself out. Plus her interesting background seemed to be quite an original character.

But I guess all that and the character in general is flushed down the toilet for a cheap villian for Robin, or Teen Titans, or some odd plot in those books.

[Gumbo Maximillian]

I always thought Alpha Centurion had plenty of potential.

Match (You know whats sad, it didn't occur to me for years that Match was in relation to the fact he was superboy's clone and not somehow dealing with matches/flame, I was actually kind of confused about it because it seemed out of place for a name).

[d newton]

Well, grumpy, snarky, tough attitude sure. But if Pantha is still unique to female characters, I don't see why she has to be condemned as a "rip-off." It's still a nice change of things, and she's more original than all the new 52 and OYL Titans.
You think she's more original than Kid Devil, Power Boy or Zatara? Why?

[Damo]

1. May have been a cat.
2. In a relationship with a Soviet superhero raising a weird mutant baby that can Hulk Out into a giant monster.
3. Called Dick a slut (okay, not original, but it gets her points in my book).

[TG Black Canary]

CASS CAIN
SPOILER
could've been so great with them. Cass Cain could've been Batwoman, Spoiler could've been her Robin.

Also, Post-Morrison Doom Patrol. Rachel Pollack messed things up, Arcudi brought it to an interesting place, Byrne rebooted it as something it wasn't, and the current one is... lacklustre.

[Lunar Daydreamer]

Kazar..I liked some of this characters stories, but I kept wishing for a more pulp-like version. Maybe Warren Ellis could give him the Planetary treatment?

Agreed. I think The Spider has a huge amount of potential in exactly such a way.

Hero wise, Ray Terril is one of DC's hidden gems. Great character.

Villain wise.. Savitar was my fave DC villain ever and he's not been seen for forever. Brilliant, evil, twisted, genius character - who actually had a plan, rather than goofing up constantly a'la Raas Al Ghul, etc.

[Red Jack]

Agreed. I think The Spider has a huge amount of potential in exactly such a way.

Hero wise, Ray Terril is one of DC's hidden gems. Great character.

Villain wise.. Savitar was my fave DC villain ever and he's not been seen for forever. Brilliant, evil, twisted, genius character - who actually had a plan, rather than goofing up constantly a'la Raas Al Ghul, etc.

I love Savitar too but he got want he wanted. One of the very few villians who won.

[Red Berens]

All of the Charlton heroes brought over during Crisis on Infinite Earths.

[jlg1]

You think she's more original than Kid Devil, Power Boy or Zatara? Why?

In addition to Damo's nice points:

1. She's not a derivative of an existing hero. (Power Boy and Zatara are pretty blatant, the same costume and powers as their originals)
2. All, to some degree, want their powers and/or benefit from it - KD always wanted to be a legitimate hero (he willingly applied for genetic tinkering with the Everyman Project and the whole deal with Neron) and I think still likes being a hero; Power Boy doesn't seem to have any conflict with being a hero and is pretty; Zatara makes a living off his powers. Pantha, on the other hand, is aggressively self-loathing mentioned a number of times how she hated and never wanted her powers. There could've been neat stories about Pantha serving as KD's new mentor with the Blue Devil fallout, given both's appearances - Pantha's story about being a monster and outsider came before KD's.

[DEWLine]

There's a list.

[suedenim]

I always thought Alpha Centurion had plenty of potential.


Me too!

And I'll add that while Gail handles her well, Lady Blackhawk needs more! We need specials! Miniseries!

Both of these are examples of the "time-displaced hero," a not-uncommon idea in comics. But it's very rarely been addressed much beyond the most superficial of ways. (And curiously, Silver Age Captain America stories dealt very, very little with this aspect beyond the "let's have some more whining about Bucky" bit.)

[ducklord]

Me too!

And I'll add that while Gail handles her well, Lady Blackhawk needs more! We need specials! Miniseries!

Both of these are examples of the "time-displaced hero," a not-uncommon idea in comics. But it's very rarely been addressed much beyond the most superficial of ways. (And curiously, Silver Age Captain America stories dealt very, very little with this aspect beyond the "let's have some more whining about Bucky" bit.)

True dat.

Consider Booster Gold. The guy was from 400 or so years in the future. Imagine all the things you would be missing/complaining about if you were suddenly transplanted into the early 17th century. The "Future Man Living Among the Barbarians" angle was almost never touched upon with Booster. More's the pity.

Argh,
Mike.

[Noir_Dark]

Blackheart.
The adopted son of Mephisto who was born out of a blood soaked battlefield.

[karasu]

Superman! He's such a great concept, but even though he's been around for seventy years I don't believe he has a clear identity. There are so many remakes, homages, adaptations, reboots, elseworlds, etc etc,, but where are the stories that say "This is who Superman is, bottomline. This is his journey". Hercules has his labors, Odysseus has his trek. I wish Superman had something like that, something concrete. Of course there are some great issues, novels and trades, but they tend to contradict one another.

[estee]

Raven.

Sure she's been around a while, but there is so much more she could do.

The problem is, she's forever being marginalised by the writers and thrown back to being a teenager again.

[Skavenger]

Wee! Second post, same as the firs-...wait, that's a song.

Anywho.

Tagak The Leopard Lord: If you don't know who this is, be ashamed of yourself. Born to a race of people who are all blind, Tagak, like everyone else in his species, mentally bonded to one of the huge jungle cats in the surrounding area, and can see through its eyes. He can also travel through mirrors to get from Point A to Point B. How does that -not- scream potential?

Ginny Mahoney: A one-shot character from an X-Men Unlimited storyline, Ginny was taken by Bastion and turned into a Prime Sentinel in an attempt to infiltrate the Emma/Sean run School For Gifted Youngsters. When she realized the person she was up against was a mutant, her plans changed and she attempted to capture both him and Banshee when Sean made an appearance at their school. However, upon realizing that she was more of a threat to the other students than either mutant, she managed to override her programming and fled the scene. The final thing we saw was her encountering Bastion and saying her programming must be malfunctioning, and his response being to fire some sort of gun at her. (No body, she ain't dead.)

Sundown: Used in the Untold Tales of Spider-Man 97 annual and the Amazing Spider-Man annual that same year, Sundown was an Osborn Labs employee whose plant-based serums were dangerously close to Norman's goblin formula. Protesting when he was shut down unfairly, a struggle caused him to be doused in chemicals and knocked into a power supply which granted him the ability to absorb radiant sunlight and heat in order to gain strength, fly, project energy blasts, and even provide a shield of sorts that was able to repel Dr. Strange's magics and Thor's hammer. However, once he calmed down after harming one of the few people who mattered to him, he willingly surrendered himself to jail. Once out, he was blackmailed by a mafia goon into working for him until he and Spider-Man managed to save the day, at which point Sundown vanished to make a new life for himself, never to be seen again.

The Slingers: Too bad Hornet had to get killed in Wolverine's book (seriously, wtf?), Ricochet's AWOL with Rick Jones' new team, Prodigy is in the Negative Zone thanks to Tony Stark, and nobody's seen Dusk...

Inferno: The one from before the latest reboot of the Legion, who stayed behind when the team went back to the future, and had her own miniseries where she was living in the Mall of America, or something. ...seriously, what?

Skein/Gypsy Moth: A woman who got her money by killing her husband once she realized she was nothing more than an immigrant eye candy to him, a mutant with the power to manipulate fabric (120 lbs worth, if I recall correctly, that's a LOT of fabric), and is a professed hedonist and brothel owner who only really stayed on the Thunderbolts because she wanted to get into Songbird's pants (and who can blame her?). C'mon, she belongs on Marvel's Secret Six-like team simply because she -does- like doing the right thing, but having fun is just more...fun.

Akasha Martinez: After being exposed to a fragment of the Living Pharoah that broke free and came to earth, Akasha went to an exhibit at a museum where she realized she could read all the heiroglyphs. Compelled to take the Staff of Horus, she awakened the power inside her and had the potential to become the new Living Pharoah. However, Spider-Man helped her, and after destroying the staff, Akasha was freed from the Pharoah's control, but still had some power left over that formed into giant golden wings on her back.

I love all these misfit characters. ._.

[Larry Dixon]

You know, I love this thread because I learn about these fascinating characters I never knew existed. I *LOVE* second and third-string characters.

Thanks, Skavenger, for that latest set. I didn't know about them at all and now I'm smiling, thinking about them.

--------

Northwind. Northwind Northwind Northwind. Gimme some Northwind. Gail, can I have Northwind? I promise I'll do a nice miniseries or OGN.

[Aggie]

Jubilee, I liked her mini series but she just hasn't fallen into the hands of a good writer for her.


i'll add dazzler here too...it always struck me as strange how a lot of people forgot that she was one of the few female characters in superhero comic history who not only had her own book, but also wasn't a female counter part to a popular male hero...plus her powers...turning sound into light is awesome...

i'd also like to see something exploring harley quinn as a character...the trick w/ harley is she's both psychotic and has a childlike fancy-freeness and it's hard to pull off that balance...there are lot of other interesting characters that writers could really mine from and create great stories.

[cedardryad]

Current Green Arrow(I'll get my revenge Winick)
Cassandra Cain
Richard Dragon(had his moment)

[Eliseu Gouveia]

Power Pack.

I used to love this comic when I was a kid, 4 brothers with wacky powers and each a unique personality.
So much could be done with them if someone was just inventive enough to tap into all that potential....

[ChrisMRich]

I like a lot of the names mentioned. Especially Tagak and the Taskmaster (fascinating concepts who could use more exploration and could really be great concepts) and Wonder Woman, who I agree has never been properly utilized. Though I love the current book, as slow-to-press as it is, because it's making use of one of my favorite under-utilized heroes... Nemesis. Who I think deserves to be on this list. A super-spy and master of disguise, he's the Chameleon as a good guy, and he's motivated by his family having shed its blood in the service of his beliefs. He's a guy who could deal with Batman as a near equal and survive among the psychotics of the Suicide Squad. I'd love to see him get some quality story time.

There are a few more on my list too:

2.) She-Hulk is a happy and well adjusted sort of hero who really deserves a /quality/ writer and a book that doesn't revolve around cool fourth wall gags that depend on knowing the real names of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and such. She was always just another Avenger, her original solo book was admittedly second-rateish, and her brief stint with the Fantastic Four showed flashes of serious potential that were lost when she went back to the Avengers. Since then she's had a pair of silly humor books that everyone professes to love that have wasted her. I understand the fear that a She-Hulk book with a serious tone risks being too much like a female Hulk or a female Daredevil, but it doesn't at all have to. There's been a vacuum of a really quality character in the 'big gun' category of the Marvel U ever since Thor vanished, and with the returned Thor being Stupid Clone that vacuum hasn't actually been filled. One could make a good argument for putting Shulkie in the kind of high-end major carnage adventures that would suit Thor... even if she doesn't have a personal mystical angle, she's got the power level to carry on at that level. Ideally though, I think her best use is in a direction 'outside the box'. Have Jennifer and Matt Murdock get together as a law practice. Daredevil has had a sidekick a lot more powerful than himself before (in Luke Cage) without suffering for it, and having someone as basically steady, happy, and well-adjusted as Shulkie in his world would be a steadying influence Matt desperately needs coming out of the Bendis era. Daredevil is, fundamentally, a guy whose total lack of fear means he frequently needs someone to drag him out of a mess he can't handle. Jen would be a wonderful choice.

3.) The Defenders were an amazing concept... a few core characters a revolving door of guest stars and some really unique and bizarre villains made this book amazing. In it's madcap, breakneck salad days during the Roy Thomas/Len Wein/Steve Englehart/Stever Gerber stretch and its short renaissance under J.M. DeMatteis there was some great storytelling done. The whole 'non-team' angle, the fact that most and sometimes all of the main characters had some serious 'I was evil and maybe I still want to be' baggage, and the fact that it was literallya book where /anything/ could happen all deserve to be explored. The modern Marvel U could really use something like this. The most angry moment of my life as a comics fan was the day I discovered that Marvel was bringing the Defenders back in a mini so that Giffen and DeMatteis could JLI them. I'm fluid on the actual cast, I think there are a lot of second tier heroes and baggage-ridden ex-villains in the Marvel U who could profit from a book like this a lot more than a Warren Ellis Thunderbolts book or Brian Bendis writing two different versions of the Avengers. But the two basic concepts of the Defenders: the exploration of the bonds of personal friendship and loyalty and the community of 'misfits' deserve revisitation.

4.) On a more specific note, Nighthawk. He was always cool, he was killed off too ambiguously, his return has been too uneven. Everyone plays around with him, but no one focuses on the things that make him cool. First off, until he became a superhero he didn't have any idea what to do with himself. Once he became a hero he became all about being a real hero, whatever the cost, and /helping others to do the same/. He got a second chance and he became devoted to giving that second chance to others when they really needed it. He was perfect for the Thunderbolts, and he was wasted there.

5.) This one is more from left field: Star Thief. I just like this because the potential is there for an awesome Namor-style antihero with a much more modern theme. A guy who's opposed to the reckless commercialization and militarization of space without regard for the consequences, who's about protecting people from governments and corporations, and absolute death on corruption. And a borderline bad guy to boot. He's got all the things the pre-WWII Namor had, and with a modern spin perfect for the 21st century.

[Trevor Frick]

here is a few that come to mind

Nightwing- I truly think he could be the greatest hero of all time if they would just pair him up with the right creative team.

Taskmaster- I agree with you Gail. He could make the ultimate badguy

Deadpool- I really liked what Kelly and McG were doing with him back in the day.

Cyclops- Leader of the X-men. X-Women want him. Why are there no Great defining stories about him?

Cass Cain- I thought she was a great character and do not like hearing that she is now the leader of the league of Asassins or whatever they are called.

Spawn- cool concept. lacks execution

[Corrina]

Cyclops- Leader of the X-men. X-Women want him. Why are there no Great defining stories about him?



There were. They were written almost thirty years ago. :sigh:

This is a guy who could intimidate Wolverine. And now he's just an emo boy involved with a woman who pulls his strings.

[Trevor Frick]

This is a guy who could intimidate Wolverine. And now he's just an emo boy involved with a woman who pulls his strings.

I know. It is pretty sad that no one has tackled him in the last few decades. ( Astonishing tried but I feel it was/is more of a White Queen story more then anything)
One can always hope a writer chooses him over Wolverine one day.

[Skavenger]

Third verse, same as the fi- dammit, I'm doing it again.

Anywho, I figured that since I helped revitalize a dying thread, the least I could do is mention a few more names. (Gail, take note, a few of these I'm looking to you for use!)

Since last time I did Marvel 'are they good are they bad' characters, this time I can focus on DC.

1) Lashina. Yes, the Female Fury from Apokalips. Now, hear me out, I was right about Tagak the Leopard Lord, wasn't I? Lashina's always been played as 'just another Granny flunky' and 'Catwoman in bondage gear'. Not that there's anything wrong with that, really. However, if one was to look back to Peter David's run on Supergirl (by and far one of the -best- reads I've ever had of a series that actually made me think while I laughed and had me near tears and cursing the author the very next page), we had a brief two-issue storyline where Supergirl followed the Furies back to Apokalips to save someone (more on this character later). I scanned and uploaded the following page involving a rather risky attempt at teleporting by flying directly into a fire pit.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1121/supergirl02921vq1.jpg

Remember, this was Supergirl when she was slightly powered by the Presence. And that's Lashina there suddenly going '...whoa.' As Himon puts it, 'Celestial radiance on Apokalips.' If that doesn't shake someone to the very core of their being and make them reconsider their life, what would? Hey, Gail, any chance Lashina could become the next Barda, find religion, and show up at the Birds' doorstep saying "Please....hide me."? (If nothing else, it'll mean that Grant Morrison's conversion of them into hookers doesn't take. God, what was DC thinking?)

2) Twilight. Another character from Peter David's run of Supergirl (catching a theme, are we?) Twilight was born several centuries ago on Apokalips, stolen as an infant, and swept away to Earth where she grew up alongside her new sister Jane. Born with the ability to both grant life and take it away, she wandered during the time of the black death in England bringing new life to those who had family and loved ones that were mourning their losses, a true miracle worker. However, she spent so much of her energy on helping others, she wasn't able to bring Jane back when she, too, succumbed to the plague. Lashing out against a 'God' who would let such a thing happen, she spent the next few centuries taking life to extend her own, and occassionally granting it back when it suited her. Towards the end of Peter David's run, we got to see her sister be brought back to her (long story), and the part of Supergirl that was the earth-born angel merged with Twilight to act as a force of redemption. And...that's promptly the last we ever saw of her. But c'mon, having that much life experience, along with her own natural powers, -and- the abilities of the Earth Angel of Fire? Potential, thy name is Twilight. C'mon, Gail, think of it, the BoPs having their own 'Zauriel' flying around making them question their faith.

3) Linda Danvers, where art thou?

4) Captain Action. I know, I know, "Who?" Listen up. Waaaaay back in the day, the Captain Action line of dolls (stick that in your "Action figures! ACTION FIGURES!" pipe and smoke it) were a hit. Captain Action, then, was a man who gained the powers and abilities of whatever nom-de-costume you donned him with. Such selections included Aquaman, Batman, Tarzan, The Phantom, etc. He also had a spunky sidekick named Action Boy (Words fail me. Blame a just-out-of-his-preteens Jim Shooter for this one, folks) who didn't have any of the same abilities, but came equipped with a ray gun, helmet, knife, and panther. No, I don't know where he got the panther from. Stop asking.

Anyway, way back in the Silver Age, Jim Shooter, the plucky thirteen year old writer for DC, was given the title to tie in with the doll, as well as the artistic talents of Gil Kane and Wally Wood to pen it for him. Yeah, I dunno what bet Shooter won to get -that- but damn, I don't want to know what would've happened if he lost.

Shooter (wisely) dumped the constantly-changing-his-clothes plan for a new origin. One that had Professor Clive Arno, rooting around some ancient Athenian ruins like a desperate man through a bin of McDonalds Beanie Babies just to find that -one- he needs to complete his collection, come upon a wooden chest filled with gold coins. Rather than cashing it in and spending the rest of his life sunning around half-nekkid women in Barbados (right, like you wouldn't have thought of it), he instead tucked them away, and had himself a good night's rest. Whereupon he learned that when the ancient Greek Gods left the 'mortal plane' they left behind the coins, each one filled with but a -speck- of their true power, for when mankind would need a champion again. Taking the name Captain Action, the professor used primarily the coins for Zeus (granting storm and lightning control), Hercules (strength), and Heimdall (senses and awareness). Action Lad (*groan*) once he teamed up with our hero, showed preference for Hermes, and his gift of super-speed. However, there were also coins for Apollo (heat and light), Poseidon (mastery over water), Aphrodite (not going there), etc.

The coins were briefly touched upon in a Superman comic years back where a lovesick fan of his managed to get her hands on some that were melted together and became the equivalent of Super-Stalker, but c'mon. However, we do know that after her brief attempts to become 'Superwoman' (including claiming that Supes was married to her because he forgot to take off his wedding band once) she gave up her life to save Superman from some demons, because she knew (stalker-sense, tingling) that he was weak to magic. However, where'd her coins go? Where's the rest of them? Where's Captain Action?

5) Lori Morning. A character from 'nowadays' (the daughter of one of Chronos' henchmen he planned on using to dump his extra old age into during the Underworld Unleashed storyline), Lori Morning wound up getting sucked along into the future where she, a ten year old stuck in a seventeen year old's body (I'm pretty sure this was the plot to Big, or something, wasn't it?), got to become part of the wonderful Legion of Superheroes...at least, she would've been part of the team if she were both a) older than ten once the brilliant scientist Rond Vidar (who she had a major pre-teen crush on) managed to reverse the aging effect, and b) if she actually -had- any super powers to name besides 'knowlege of archaic trivia'. Unfortunately, she was beaten on that front by Ferro, and you know how touchy the Legion gets over duplicate powers.

She snuck along on a Legion mission and managed to get her hands on an ancient artifact, the 'Dial H for Hero' dial. She'd then sneak out, using the dial to try to impress the Legion members, and show them that she, too, could be a hero.

Unfortunately, the 'dial' was supposedly destroyed when Brainiac 5.1 (oh god, what were they thinking with that name?) used it to seal a rift in space-time. I say 'screw that noise' and hope we get Lori thrown back into present-time, post-IC, and she gets her hands on the dial once again. If nothing else, it'd be a book that kids could get into, cause what ten year old DOESN'T want to have superpowers?

I think I've spammed this thread enough for now...but I have a few more DC people in mind that could use a make-over and be brought back into the forefront.

What do you think, sirs?

[John Nowak]

Doctor Strange.

Honestly, I've always liked the character, but his comics have generally fallen a bit flat with me: the fights, for example, usually play a bit like:

DORMAMMU: I unleash Infinite Doom on your accursed head, Strange!

STRANGE: I counter with Shield of Infinity Plus One!

DORMAMMU: Blast you, Strange!

only a bit less dramatic.

I wonder if Strange might be more interesting if he were a "bookend" character. I could see a comic that focused on various horrible manifestations of demons and magic, with Strange being, well, the doctor, the one who puts things aright or calmly tells the people involved that they're now utterly damned and there's nothing he can do for them.

[Skavenger]

3.) The Defenders were an amazing concept... a few core characters a revolving door of guest stars and some really unique and bizarre villains made this book amazing.

Major props to this guy. I'd like to see this book a bit darker, though. More in line with the direction Marvel's going now. Get some spooky characters in there. Chamber, with his mutant powers back at full. Maybe Nightcrawler (why is it Kurt is always happy-go-lucky, and Peter Parker is always angstful? Ex-squeeze me?). Bring back Valkyrie, Damian Hellstrom (imagine him and Kurt talking religion...), and Nighthawk. Bring back Dead Girl to join the team. Toss in Stingray, there's got to be some stuff underwater that the world needs defending from. Maybe Madame Web. Cloak and Dagger. Moon Knight. All these characters who just don't 'belong'.

[Damo]

Wee! Second post, same as the firs-...wait, that's a song.


Gorgeous list.

[Uly Glens]

Captain America.
He's supposed to be as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be, etc. Inasmuch, couldn't he punch as fast as Sugar Ray Leonard, but with the power of say, big George Foreman? And never get tired? He'd be a human dynamo. He'd seem superhuman. I know he's A-list, but I've never seen him this way.

[Damo]

Captain America.
He's supposed to be as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be, etc. Inasmuch, couldn't he punch as fast as Sugar Ray Leonard, but with the power of say, big George Foreman? And never get tired? He'd be a human dynamo. He'd seem superhuman. I know he's A-list, but I've never seen him this way.

I don't know what to say, except that you should probably read his book more. He's been written the way you describe for a long time now.

[Uly Glens]

I don't know what to say, except that you should probably read his book more. He's been written the way you describe for a long time now.
Yes, that's how he's been characterized. I've never seen it specifically as dramatized exposition. But I am just a casual reader.

[SensorBoy]

Uncle Sam: He's always been described as being very powerful (at the very least, he ranks with Black Adam or Grundy in the strength and invulnerability departments), but never seems to make it into the ranks of the real players of the DCU. Being continually written as slightly crazed doesnt help.
A hero being that powerful and iconic (he's the living personification of the United States) should, while not being in the JLA (doesn't fit), be one of the names dropped when Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman start brainstorming a plan to save the world.

May have something to do with modern comic writer's (some exceptions apply) inability to portray realistically patriotic heroes. Captain America comes in for much the same treatment, as seen in Civil War and the issue where the Frenchwoman berates him for the US/British invasion of Afghanistan (and he just sits and takes it). Patriotic heroes are either slavering jingoistic caricatures or they compromise on everything to suit the writer's agenda (re: Cap backing the Registration Resisters against the United States Congress). "I love America, but the President is wrong, so I'm going to fight the elected government", etc.

Sinestro: With a few exceptions (IC, for ex), he is not portrayed in accordance with his history and reputation (elite GL Corpsmember, etc). The guy makes the GL Corps collectively soil itself. Maybe this "Sinestro Corps" arc will correct it.

[OzBat!]

Ray Terrill. The Ray was the first miniseries I picked up without knowing a single thing about it before hand; after flicking through it at the shop I just had to get it, the writing was great and the art was superb. And then the ongoing series was quirky and fun, but Priests' convoluted storytelling probably worked against it and it folded after (I think) 32 issues. The "Year One" annual where young Ray drinks himself into a stupor after attempting to save a crashing airliner and not living up to his hero Superman's standards was heartrending.

And then he just vanished.

I hear there was a positive sign at the end of the seven soldiers series? He might be coming back? So, so much potential.

Impulse. Yes, Impulse. I don't know who this 'Bart Allen' guy is running around the DCU at the moment, but he sure aint Impulse. The true Impulse died when they ditched his costume and forced him into Wally Wests' old hand-me-downs instead, and most of his potential died with him. Somebody tell me this is a speed force clone instead, and bring back teenaged attention-deficit-disordered Bart!

Jesse Quick. I guess I've got to see what they're doing with her as the new "Liberty Belle" in JSA before I can really complain.

[Karl J. Barnes]

Ray Terrill. The Ray was the first miniseries I picked up without knowing a single thing about it before hand; after flicking through it at the shop I just had to get it, the writing was great and the art was superb. And then the ongoing series was quirky and fun, but Priests' convoluted storytelling probably worked against it and it folded after (I think) 32 issues. The "Year One" annual where young Ray drinks himself into a stupor after attempting to save a crashing airliner and not living up to his hero Superman's standards was heartrending.

And then he just vanished.

I hear there was a positive sign at the end of the seven soldiers series? He might be coming back? So, so much potential.

Impulse. Yes, Impulse. I don't know who this 'Bart Allen' guy is running around the DCU at the moment, but he sure aint Impulse. The true Impulse died when they ditched his costume and forced him into Wally Wests' old hand-me-downs instead, and most of his potential died with him. Somebody tell me this is a speed force clone instead, and bring back teenaged attention-deficit-disordered Bart!

Jesse Quick. I guess I've got to see what they're doing with her as the new "Liberty Belle" in JSA before I can really complain.

Isn't The Ray suppose to make a comeback in Freedom Fighters?

As to other supporting characters , we haven't seen much about J Jonah Jameson and Robbie from Spiderman. Surely, we'd should get more of their perspective about what is going on in this Civil War thing.

[suedenim]

Third verse, same as the fi- dammit, I'm doing it again.

Anywho, I figured that since I helped revitalize a dying thread, the least I could do is mention a few more names. (Gail, take note, a few of these I'm looking to you for use!)

Since last time I did Marvel 'are they good are they bad' characters, this time I can focus on DC.

1) Lashina. Yes, the Female Fury from Apokalips. Now, hear me out, I was right about Tagak the Leopard Lord, wasn't I? Lashina's always been played as 'just another Granny flunky' and 'Catwoman in bondage gear'. Not that there's anything wrong with that, really. However, if one was to look back to Peter David's run on Supergirl (by and far one of the -best- reads I've ever had of a series that actually made me think while I laughed and had me near tears and cursing the author the very next page), we had a brief two-issue storyline where Supergirl followed the Furies back to Apokalips to save someone (more on this character later). I scanned and uploaded the following page involving a rather risky attempt at teleporting by flying directly into a fire pit.

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/1121/supergirl02921vq1.jpg

Remember, this was Supergirl when she was slightly powered by the Presence. And that's Lashina there suddenly going '...whoa.' As Himon puts it, 'Celestial radiance on Apokalips.' If that doesn't shake someone to the very core of their being and make them reconsider their life, what would? Hey, Gail, any chance Lashina could become the next Barda, find religion, and show up at the Birds' doorstep saying "Please....hide me."? (If nothing else, it'll mean that Grant Morrison's conversion of them into hookers doesn't take. God, what was DC thinking?)


(Hookers? Where was that? Anyways....)
Remember, too, that Lashina was once on the Suicide Squad, as "Duchess." Sure, she was suffering from amnesia at the time, but it's still possible some of our Earthly ways rubbed off on her from that.

[suedenim]

Captain America.
He's supposed to be as intelligent, strong, fast, agile, and durable as it is possible for a human being to be, etc. Inasmuch, couldn't he punch as fast as Sugar Ray Leonard, but with the power of say, big George Foreman? And never get tired? He'd be a human dynamo. He'd seem superhuman. I know he's A-list, but I've never seen him this way.

Brubaker has recently, fairly subtly, been doing this. I know what you mean, though. Too often, in the context of the Avengers and the like, Cap's portrayed as "the one without super powers." But on a more normal, "human" scale, he should be pretty awesome. But, for example, in the recent story that was a flashback to WWII, the Howlers are all amazed by what Cap can do physically.

[Skavenger]

(Hookers? Where was that? Anyways....)
Remember, too, that Lashina was once on the Suicide Squad, as "Duchess." Sure, she was suffering from amnesia at the time, but it's still possible some of our Earthly ways rubbed off on her from that.

Well, even though it was hard to understand -anything- in the Mr. Miracle part of the Seven Soldiers storyline, I'm pretty sure that was the Female Furies we were supposed to see employed in Granny's Bondage House or whatever.