Betty & Veronica...anorexic hookers?

[DuelaDent]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=94511

Ok, what the hell? Experimentation with characters is great, but when you transform a couple of 60 year old "wholesome teenagers" into anorexic hookers, it just screams "Cheap Sales Gimmick!"

http://www.newsarama.com/Archie/bvdd151.jpg

I haven't bought an Archie comic in 10-15 years (remember Jughead with his mohawk and skateboarding friends, or Archie's semi-mullet in the 80's?), so I can only hope this is just a short-lived experiment. I would hate for my future grandchildren to someday go scavenging through my old back-issues and say "Damn Grandpa, you read comics before Betty and Veronica became a couple of $5 hookers" (Note: Dollar amount will fluctuate based on inflation).

Sigh, how hard is it for publishers to remember their target audience? Did Dan DiDio buy Archie Comics while we were all asleep?

[Michael P]

I'm not against a change in style in principle, but this particular style creeps me the hell out.

[DuelaDent]

Oh, and I think the next storyline is a cross-over with the current Supergirl (i.e., our oh-so-beloved Kara Zor-El). Apparently during a field trip to Metropolis, Betty and Veronica confuse Boomerang for Archie and a topless girl-fight breaks out pitting the slutty Riverdale girls against the anorexic Maid of Steel. Thankfully, the girls eventually all become best friends and team up once Granny Goodness arrives on the scene and puts a cap in Miss Grundy's head, and then they all go dancing with Terra at the end of the story.

Plus the Supergirl creative team will have to change 2-3 times during the course of one issue. And it will be 4 months late.

[Crowley]

I don't think they look like hookers... they look like teenage girls to me...

[Xerxes]

They look like normal teenagers to me too. I don't understand what is all the fuss about. Will someone explain it to me?:confused:

[David Atkins]

You know what I find creepy/scary?

The fact that a girl being especially thin automatically means 'eating disorder' or 'drugs' or even 'whore' in this day and age. Ugh. Get over it. Some people are thin, some are tall, some are big, some are small. :rolleyes:

[Lester C.]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=94511

Ok, what the hell? Experimentation with characters is great, but when you transform a couple of 60 year old "wholesome teenagers" into anorexic hookers, it just screams "Cheap Sales Gimmick!"

http://www.newsarama.com/Archie/bvdd151.jpg

I haven't bought an Archie comic in 10-15 years (remember Jughead with his mohawk and skateboarding friends, or Archie's semi-mullet in the 80's?), so I can only hope this is just a short-lived experiment. I would hate for my future grandchildren to someday go scavenging through my old back-issues and say "Damn Grandpa, you read comics before Betty and Veronica became a couple of $5 hookers" (Note: Dollar amount will fluctuate based on inflation).

Sigh, how hard is it for publishers to remember their target audience? Did Dan DiDio buy Archie Comics while we were all asleep?

Five dollars for a hooker! You MUST tell us where you shop.

[suedenim]

They look like normal teenagers to me too. I don't understand what is all the fuss about. Will someone explain it to me?:confused:

I think it's more the change in style that's jarring as opposed to anything else. These characters have a long, long history of being drawn in a particular house style.

I think changing that style is probably ill-advised*, but I don't think they especially look like "hookers" here - they're just wearing contemporary fashions, as they always have, and don't look much sluttier than in this recent (edit: actually I guess it's circa 1994) cover selected more or less at random on comics.org:

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11969/400/11969_4_0063.jpg

(Actually, now looking at the two pictures together, the most striking difference is that "classic" Betty and Veronica are the ones with well-developed boobs!)

* - In particular, I think this style might work OK for Betty and Veronica - who are "cute girls" by design, not "funny looking" like, say, Archie or Jughead, who'd look *really* weird in this art style, I think.

[Matt Linton]

Here's a pic of the redesigned Archie:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/spookymonk/Archiepagecolor.jpg

[DuelaDent]

Ok, maybe "anorexic hooker" isn't the best term. What bothers me is this trend of making comic-book teenage girls like Supergirl and now Betty & Veronica look like 2-D versions of Paris Hilton, Nicole Richie, Mary Kate and Ashley, and Lidsay Lohan.

Seriously, everyone here knows some teenage girls in real life somehow (me, I have a niece). Now out of the girls you know, how many have this incredibly thin Hollywood body that is being presented everywhere you turn?

Yes, we all know that superheroes in general look like WWF wrestlers, however Archie Comics is not a superhero line and has a more cartoonish style that fits it's target audience. In the preview for the new style, Archie looked rather normal. The girls on the other hand, look like they need to eat a couple hamburgers with Jughead.

As somebody who works in the health profession and has talked to many parents of girls with eating disorders several times over the years, its just a little disturbing seeing one more "teen-girl friendly" media outlet (i.e., Archie Comics) adopt a new style that will shove thinness in their faces.

P.S.
Yes, I realize that through the years Betty and Veronica had chests that made them look like Power Girl, Jr. All I am asking for is a happy medium somewhere.

[the4thpip]

Here's a pic of the redesigned Archie:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/spookymonk/Archiepagecolor.jpg

It's Jimmy Olsen!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Archie I'm sure wants their characters to identify with kids today. They are a business and I can see why the change was made. I don't see nothing wrong with the cover. They look like normal teenagers from the cover. I can't see an eating disorder or them being whores eithor.

This new style could help Archie. I heard its helped Sabrina the teenage Witch when they used a manga style on it.

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Here's a pic of the redesigned Archie:
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g292/spookymonk/Archiepagecolor.jpg

He does look like Jimmy Olsen as the poster before me pointed out.

[DuelaDent]

Maybe I'm just old, grumpy, and opinionated! :D

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Maybe I'm just old, grumpy, and opinionated! :D

I can see why you'd be angry. Its a drastic shift from what Archie's done for years and now their doing this. I can see how it would shock older Archie fans. But ya never know...it could be good.

[palaeomerus]

A brown Letter Jacket? The Riverdale school colors are BROWN?.... urp.

[Crowley]

I think it's a good idea for the style to evolve... and I think that Betty and Veronica as presented look like normal teenage girls, as does Archie.

[Deathstroke]

It's Jimmy Olsen!

Or utter crap.

[singoalla]

Yep. They need to eat more burgers and wear a burkah. :rolleyes:
So do all my cousins and friends because, really, who ever heard of a european woman averaging size 6, living healthy and wearing whatever they felt like?

I'm sorry if that was rude, but it's a comic. If the kids like it, fine. My brother reads Superman. How come no one ever worries he might grow up to eat steroids and punch holes in the walls?

[The Xenos]

Eh. It's not bad. I just hope they don't totally abandon the old style. Maybe have a separate line for it or only do it on some of the books.

I honestly don't think they look that horrible. That is pretty much how many teenage girls look and dress. They're not too thin or have that coked out of their minds look like some of the stupid spoiled whores like Hilton and others who have been brought up in this thread.

Also 'manga' Sabrina pisses me off to no end because.. it's not manga! Sure, it takes on the sterotypical look of manga, but I don't belive in propagating sterotypes even if it does boost sales due to buzzword marketing being accepted as fact. I've got a manga character in my avatar and that manga looks nothing like this 'manga style' Sabrina.

[Azrael52]

I think it's a good idea for the style to evolve... and I think that Betty and Veronica as presented look like normal teenage girls, as does Archie.

How the hell can you stand there and say that? Archie most definitely does not look like a normal teenage girl! :mad:


Other than that, yeah, I'd say that out of the, like, 10 teenage girls I know, 7 of them look like this, 1 looks like a mix from classic/new style, and the other 2 are chubbier. If you go into a shopping mall and look around, you're probably going to see that ratio, too, though to be honest, my wife doesn't usually let me go to the mall and look at the teenaged girls. :rolleyes:

[The Xenos]

I'm sorry if that was rude, but it's a comic. If the kids like it, fine. My brother reads Superman. How come no one ever worries he might grow up to eat steroids and punch holes in the walls?

A-freaking-men. Even for a realistic comic book like Archie you are going to make them somewhat more good looking than average. Even with a more realistic cartoon style, it's still a cartoon or characature.

[diana_fan]

Yeah, they look pretty normal to me, too.

I don't get the reaction. "Anorexic hookers"? Man, I hate when people use the word "anorexic" without any regard for what a *real* anorexic woman looks like.

Use google. Seriously.

And hookers? Huh? Are they supposed to be students in Saudi Arabia all of a sudden?

[DuelaDent]

I guess Betty has always been kind of a whore (anorexic or not)...she protested to Archie at first, but gave in pretty easily soon afterwards.

Poor Mr. Cooper!

http://www.loonyboi.com/blog/archives/bm2.jpg

http://www.loonyboi.com/blog/archives/bm4.jpg

http://www.loonyboi.com/blog/archives/bm6.jpg

(yes, I seriously know the above story plays out much differently in the comic...I googled the word "sarcasm" at the same time I was trying to teach my uneducated self about "anorexia" since I know so little about the subject)

I like getting people all fired up! ;)

[MartinRedmond]

People, he isn't peeved at the style change. He is peeved at the girl's body types, which is bullimic, anorexic, gross.

[Crowley]

Martin,
http://www.newsarama.com/Archie/bvdd151.jpg
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11969/400/11969_4_0063.jpg

of these two images... style aside... which has more realistic teenage body proportions? Which are more sexualized?

slim and fit is much different than anorexic...
And again what of Archie? I know plenty of guys I went to high school with who were much larger fellows than Archie is portrayed.

I mean if we want to we could probably easily make the argument that the prior interpretations are responsible for an increase in breast implants right?

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Martin,
http://www.newsarama.com/Archie/bvdd151.jpg
http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/11969/400/11969_4_0063.jpg

of these two images... style aside... which has more realistic teenage body proportions? Which are more sexualized?

slim and fit is much different than anorexic...
And again what of Archie? I know plenty of guys I went to high school with who were much larger fellows than Archie is portrayed.

I mean if we want to we could probably easily make the argument that the prior interpretations are responsible for an increase in breast implants right?


I can't wait to see the new Archie when they have him go swimming. I bet he has a 6 pack and is hitting the muscle enhancers hard. ;)

[Deathstroke]

While I do not like the art change, it could be worse, they could have Judd Winick writing the stories.

The titles "Betty & Veronica" and "Archie's Friend Jughead" would take on entirely different meanings.

[Buzz Dixon]

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=94511

http://www.newsarama.com/Archie/bvdd151.jpg
Betty for the most part looks like a realistic version of the Bob Montana/Dan DeCarlo design (contrary to what some elsewhere have claimed, Betty and Veronica are not the same design with different hair color; Betty has a pointy chin, Veronica's is more rounded).

My biggest problem with Betty above is the alignment of her eyes and nose; they're off center.

Veronica's face is done in a more cartoony style to the rest of the drawing; I think this might be a fix over original art.

Now, as I've pointed out elsewhere, Archie Comics is the only established comics line that relies on new customers buying their product as older customers outgrow it. In this they are similar to toy lines like Transformers, G.I. Joe, TMNT, My Little Pony, etc. All of those have gone through significant redesigns, reconfigurations, etc., without affecting their sales.

Even Barbie has gone through periodic redesigns and reconfiguartions (dumping Ken, f'r instance).

And this isn't the first time Archie Comics has done this sorta thing. Archie was already a hit for the better part of a decade when they had Bob Montana significantly redesign the characters in the early 50s (Dan DeCarlo came later and streamlined and refined Montana's designs). The result was that Archie became even more popular, so the weight of history is on the side of change.

The new readers don't care what Archie comics looked like six months, six years, six weeks, or six decades ago. The first time they pick up an Archie comic is the first time they've ever picked up an Archie comic; for them the Archieverse begins at that point.

The most important new development is allowing longer story lines which, if I read the press release correctly, will feature self-contained stories that fit into a larger over all arc.

These particular designs still need some refinement, IMO, but I'm guessing by the end of the decade it will be a lot closer to what the Archie standard model will be than what Montana and DeCarlo drew.

[PatrickG]

I'm sick of then women being labeled "anorexic", "hooker", "crackwhore" and "bad rolemodel".

The girls I hung out with in high school were mostly pretty slender. And the "cool" and "average" kids were as well.

Bulemia is a serious problem and one that I'm pretty sure Archie comics have (and will again) tackle on an age appropriate level.

But I'm sick of seeing slender people badmouthed.

[Ronée]

I do not think going as far as labeling them "anorexic hookers" was anything more than a knee jerk reaction. When i first saw the cover I was very taken aback, but after sitting back and asking myself why this offended me it became merely a question of taste. I grew up reading the betty and Veronica comics and I loved the way they were depicted... as heathly, voluptuous women... I just do not like this artist doing the comic I have loved for so long. Mostly for the faces to be quite honest... and the new Archie? Yuck.

That's just one fans opinion.

[diana_fan]

I do not think going as far as labeling them "anorexic hookers" was anything more than a knee jerk reaction. When i first saw the cover I was very taken aback, but after sitting back and asking myself why this offended me it became merely a question of taste. I grew up reading the betty and Veronica comics and I loved the way they were depicted... as heathly, voluptuous women... I just do not like this artist doing the comic I have loved for so long. Mostly for the faces to be quite honest... and the new Archie? Yuck.

That's just one fans opinion.

Says the woman with a baby smoking a cigarette as her avatar. :)

Seriously, I ahve always wondered about the Betty and Veronica books. I have no idea what they are like. I know that the covers I have seen have been hilarious. There seems to be a very subversive streak to it all, but I don't know if that is my projecting, or if it is really there.

I just think the drawings are ok. Not great, not terrible. I'd love to see a Darwyn Cooke "Betty & Veronica". That could be epic!

[Karen El]

So who are these anorexic hookers that every teenage female comic character is compared to?

[Cam63]

Mother Teresa and I can't think of the other one's name.

[MartinRedmond]

Well, this is good news for big Ethel, she won't be the only leaf rake in town no more!

[SUPERECWFAN1]

Well, this is good news for big Ethel, she won't be the only leaf rake in town no more!

I bet Moose is drawn to look like HHH. Now I know he's gotta be hittin those rods.

[DuelaDent]

I bet Moose is drawn to look like HHH. Now I know he's gotta be hittin those rods.

And Mr. Weatherbee better get a gastric bypass too, dammit! ;)

[Corrina]

How many people in this thread have bought an Archie comic in the last five years?

Probably not too many.

They look okay to me, certainly no worse than the older images. It's an art style kids like today, I don't see any worse overt sexuality than before so....what's the problem again?

[Deathstroke]

How many people in this thread have bought an Archie comic in the last five years?

Probably not too many.

They look okay to me, certainly no worse than the older images. It's an art style kids like today, I don't see any worse overt sexuality than before so....what's the problem again?


I have. I got on an Archie kick for a while, and then the ones I bought I passed on to my niece.

[MacQuarrie]

How many people in this thread have bought an Archie comic in the last five years?

Probably not too many.

They look okay to me, certainly no worse than the older images. It's an art style kids like today, I don't see any worse overt sexuality than before so....what's the problem again?

That's the thing, I don't see it as an art style that kids like today. It looks more like art that comics readers like. I think it's going to fail. The faux-manga approach was a much smarter choice. Look at the kids in Greg Hatcher's classes; they're all doing pseudo-manga. This stuff is completely non-stylyzed.

I never much cared for the cross-hatching on Archie's head, and certainly nobody has seen a hat like Jughead's in at least 45 years, but I think they've totally dropped the ball here. This is a misguided attempt, heading in exactly the wrong direction.

I would have aimed at something halfway between Chynna Clugston and Disney's Princesses. It needs to be light, clean, friendly and inviting. This is too busy.

[Buzz Dixon]

How many people in this thread have bought an Archie comic in the last five years? I do. I buy anywhere from 3-5 a month (including digests). When they work, they work really, really well.